RELIGION

Mormon Beefcake

Did a frisky calendar get an LDS member excommunicated?

By Steve Friess | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Jul 18, 2008 | Updated: 5:08  p.m. ET Jul 18, 2008

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  • Posted By: mjc1925 @ 08/03/2008 9:13:47 PM

    To ramblinrose33: I don't personally know Glen Beck. I do know that he joined the LDS Church well into adulthood, and that he, as do we all, brings with him baggage, and life experience. Perhaps he was brought up in a home where this kind of language was used. Or maybe he picked up this language along the way to adulthood. But that doesn't matter, because nobody is perfect. I doubt he represents himself as a perfect person, and none of us has the right to expect him, or anyone else. for that matter, regardless of their faith, to be spotless and a "finished product", so to speak. No matter what church a person belongs to, he/she is still a PERSON. He/she has his or her own personality traits, imperfections, weaknesses, etc. To say that a person is bad, or hypocritical because they exhibit behaviors that offend us or at odds with our expectations is patently wrong. I had an aunt who was a Roman Catholic nun. Occasionaly Sr. Ann would visit my Dad and my other aunt. The three siblings would fall back into their childhood roles, and feelings would be hurt. When my sisters witnesses this, they were angry with Sr. Ann, and called her a hypocrite because she stepped out of the mold in which they had put her. They failed to realize that she was a person first, with all the feelings that every other person has. She never put herself out there as being better than us because of the vows she took, and none of her imperfections wiped out the good that she did. Likewise, we have no right to look at a member of the LDS faith and find fault with them because they are human and say or do things counter to what is expected of them by their church, or by us. In every faith there will be those who exemplify the best of their beliefs, and others whom we may find wanting. But every person is trying to do hi/her best with what they have. Glenn Beck is among them

  • Posted By: rnbandrews @ 07/19/2008 2:18:04 PM

    I'm an active member of the LDS church and I don't think the calendar is that big of a deal. It shows that these missionaries are real, ordinary guys who also love the Lord and the Gospel.

    • Posted By: katcelata @ 07/19/2008 2:46:29 PM

      If you had arrived in the Salt Lake Desert starving, after having been murdered in the east, you may feel a tradition of self-sufficiency might be in order. Please, don't speak to traditions you don't know, without getting a true factual knowledge. I am not LDS, but have been shared with entirely when in need, with no holding back. We ARE talking about people here, not just a church beaurocracy. The people are real, and giving.

      • Posted By: ramblinrose33 @ 08/03/2008 3:07:29 PM

        and I have seen a family with small children shunned by the Morman church even though their "member" was a drunk. All denominations have problems. None is perfect. Not even the Mormons.

    • Posted By: Twister52 @ 07/20/2008 2:10:02 AM

      Church leadership, with the Lord's approval, does not want our missionaires, or in other words, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which the missionaries freely share to anyone willing to listen, to be associated with ANY other thing than Jesus Christ and what He stands for.

      The first time I heard about this calendar I didn't think it was in the best of taste, but I didn't really see anything overtly wrong about it either. But since the guys posed in missionary clothing with missionary name tags on (tags that clearly say "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" on them), then anyone viewing the calendar thinks (incorrectly), "Oh, THE LDS CHURCH is accepting of this kind of portrayal of their missionaries and their church".

      Not good.

      Nike can control the direction of it's company. The NBA can control the direction of it's image. Hewlett-Packard, Ford, American Airlines, etc all work non-stop to control the image their company puts forward to the public. Why shouldn't the LDS church?, particularly when the image we should be constantly presenting to our families as well as the public, is Christ?

      What is more important that that?

    • Posted By: iknowitallbaby @ 07/19/2008 2:28:18 PM

      Yeah whats the big deal about this? 30 years ago they wouldn't accept my dad into any position in the church because of him being of "color".They babtize dead people without permission, have "logical" reasonings for the first Mormons who moved out here to have relations with multiple women since the trip was "rough" and the women needed to be "taken care of", they think they are going to have to defend their food supply when the end comes from hungry people, which is greed. I think this calendar is the least of their problems.

  • Posted By: YerAllSinnaz @ 07/19/2008 2:17:03 PM

    It's funny how the mormons want you to join their cult, and if you don't they wait until you're dead and then steal your info, and secretly "baptize" you without your permission(all without permission, ,and without concern for what you did during your life, but if you are still alive, you had better do what they say, or they'll excommunicate you and discriminate against your personal cultural choice. It would almost seem as though showing the beautiful body "god" endowed us with is wrong to mormons...their religion is starting to sound muslim...what's next? Burqas?
    And what is this reference to "reverence towards women?" The only reverence mormons show towards women, is that of subserviance, and forced servitude: "barefoot and pregnant" is the perfect mormon woman. Outspoken, is outcast.

    • Posted By: candh96 @ 07/19/2008 2:53:24 PM

      You need to check your sources. I am a full time working LDS mother of two. I work for a law enforcement agency and am very outspoken. I have many friends in the LDS church and am in no way subservient to ANYONE. I make my own choices.

      Every church has an excommunication process by which to discipline their members. It does not mean that they cannot return. It simply means that they now have the opportunity to change their ways and start over.

      By the way, we believe that the person that is given the proxy baptism still has the choice to accept or not. So don't worry, you still have your free will, if you believe in life after death. If not, why does it matter if you end up baptised? None of this is secret at all......You need to check your facts next time you decide to go off on a topic.

      • Posted By: rosie in Iowa @ 07/19/2008 4:48:26 PM

        I studied the Mormons when our church was studying different cults...Mormonism is a cult,no way around it. Bapstism by proxy is a joke and is no where in the Bible. Jesus baptized living people and told us to be baptized and go spread the Word of the Gospel. The whole beginning of the Mormon chuch is unbelievable...as for the calendar,LOL!!!!!

        • Posted By: ramblinrose33 @ 08/03/2008 3:05:10 PM

          The Bible states that "the dead know not anything". Once someone is dead, he/she will lie in the grave until Jesus comes in the Clouds of Glory. They don't go to Heaven or Hell until Christ comes to get them.
          Read Your Bible.

        • Posted By: phoenix76 @ 07/19/2008 10:44:03 PM

          Baptisms for the dead, it mentions in my King James Bible (1 Corinthians 15:29) "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" Do you believe the Bible literally?

        • Posted By: jjjacks @ 07/19/2008 6:14:16 PM

          The beiginning of the "mormon church" The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Sarints is the Church of Christ, the teachings of Christ from the Bible. Get your facts straight.

    • Posted By: artemis_777 @ 07/19/2008 2:43:41 PM

      I'm a woman and LDS, and I take extreme offense to your prejudiced comment that "the only reverence mormons show towards women, is that of subserviance, and forced servitude." My husband would laugh out loud at the "subserviant" part of your comment; I think there are days he feels it is the other way around :) . As for forced servitude...what? I do volunteer my time quite often to help with youth group activities, to teacher, or give service in a vast number of ways, but I fail to see how my volunteering in my church and community or doing a load of dishes in my home qualifies as forced servitude. I know I'm always able to say no to tasks I don't have time for. this actually happens often as my profession takes up a fair chunk of my time. Of course you will find some sexists in the mormon faith--as you will in most any walk of life, but to label an entire group of people in the manner you have is stereotyping at its worst.

      • Posted By: kahrs7212 @ 07/19/2008 3:04:40 PM

        Would love to see first hand a Virgin birth with no artificial help!

    • Posted By: katcelata @ 07/19/2008 2:42:43 PM

      Yeah, and my LDS friends probably think it is hysterically bizarre that my religion believes in a virgin birth... but they are too well brought up to criticize me for that. Is it too much to believe that the Christian religion didn't stop with Jesus' death, but continues to grow? I have also seen first hand how important LDS women are in the community- there are some things I find not too my taste, but this is not a fascist regime!

  • Posted By: hthalljr @ 07/18/2008 8:57:35 PM

    The fact that Hardy immediately went to the press when he was summoned to a confidential Church disciplinary council, knowing that Church officials could not disclose those transactions, shows his contempt for the Church. He is exploiting the Church's "brand" for a few minutes of fame and personal financial gain. Without knowing anything of his "personal issues," I am glad that he can no longer sell his calendar as a "member in good standing."

    Tracy Hall Jr
    hthalljr'gmai'com

    • Posted By: tha8 @ 07/19/2008 3:18:49 PM

      Who really cares? I don't... It's pure hypocrosy... They have a problem with ADULTS having pictures taken of them with 'no shirts' on because it's objectifying them and showing them as sexual objects. However, it's perfectly fine for those same "modest" young men to go back to Utah (The Promised Land) and marry 6 different women and procreate to the high hills because THAT'S all about modesty and isn't sexual at all. Give me a freaking break!!! The whole issue is a joke! They didn't want any gay men or unmarried women looking at those pics and getting in on the action that they reserved for the cultists only!!

      • Posted By: bewell @ 07/19/2008 4:17:17 PM

        Igorant people just do not get it. Mormons DO NOT practice polygamy!!! That practice was discontinued over one hundred years ago. Pologamous people are not Mormons! If a Mormon has more than one wife he is ex-communicated. Ex-communication is for the benefit of the individual and the Church. People who are ex-communicated are not shunned. If they are the shunner is not following the example of Christ who forgave the adultress. I have known several who were ex-communicated, changed their ways and were re-baptized. Lack of activity or not paying tithing are not reasons for ex-communication. Putting the Church to shame may be. These decisions are made on an individual basis. I personally think the calendars are in bad taste but Mr. Hardy has his agency to do whatever he wants to do in this life. The Church did not take his agency only his right be called a member. It is not what happens to a person that counts, it is what a person does with what happens to him that makes a difference. I am a Mormon. I chose to be so as an adult and it is the best decision I have made in my life. Even if it were not the Church of Jesus Christ, it is the best way to live that I have ever found! Let others live how they may is the philosphy of my Church. I have filled two full time missions and have received many blessings from serving my God and some of His children.

        • Posted By: ramblinrose33 @ 08/03/2008 2:56:07 PM

          How can Glen Beck say things like "what the hell" and "damn ......" while he professes to be a Mormon? I didn't know their church allowed swearing. Can someone comment on this. Thanks.

      • Posted By: PiratesRRRRsavvy @ 07/19/2008 3:38:49 PM

        That's the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints. Not the ones we're talking about. There's a difference

  • Posted By: a_distinguished_gentleman @ 07/20/2008 10:29:39 PM

    To singinasong:

    You state that [you] never remember anywhere reading about levels of heaven. In John 14:2 it states:

    2 In my Father???s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    You also state: In fact, on Calvary, Jesus tells one of the sinners the he will see Christ in heaven. NO works. Just believe.

    Actually, this is what was actually told to the thief in Luke 23:43:

    And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

    Christ did not say heaven, he said paradise. This is an important distinction. Three days later, after his resurrection from the dead, he had this to say to Mary in John 20:17:

    Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father.

    We know the Father resides in heaven, thus, our Heavenly Father. We also know Christ is and was perfect, which is what qualified Him to atone for our sins. Therefore, being perfect, he could not have lied. Yet, most Christians accept paradise and heaven as one in the same. If true, how could Christ promise the thief that Today shalt thou be with me in paradise yet tell Mary three days later that he had not yet ascended to his Father, in heaven, and thus forbade her from touching him? The answer, obviously, is that paradise and heaven are not the same place. The truth is a real bummer sometimes, I know.

    • Posted By: ramblinrose33 @ 08/03/2008 2:47:54 PM

      I believe the original writing in Hebrews is "verily, verily, I say unto to you today, thou shalt be with me in paradise. Note where the comma is placed---after today! Christ never entered paradise that day, he died and spent Sabbath in the tomb. (Sabbath = Saturday). Likewise, the Sabbath is still Saturday, the Ten Commandments have not been changed BY GOD and we will all be keeping Sabbath on Fri. night until Sat night sunset in Heeaven. Check your Bible

  • Posted By: asberry080808 @ 07/20/2008 1:52:03 AM

    LDS is a cult!!! Knowing the truth about what lies beneath is the scariest thing I've ever uncovered. Looks great from the outside...and I'm not just talking about the calendar pics--family, church, God---but CRAZY all over the place...become a God one day of your own planet, Holy underwear, the list goes on and on. Beware of what appears holy and righteous from the outside but is dead and corrupt from the inside!!!

    • Posted By: abinadi @ 07/20/2008 1:27:30 PM

      I noticed that a lot of people in this conversation seem filled with a lot of hate and seem very unhappy. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has brought me and my family a lot of happiness over the years. I wish you could experience that happiness.

      • Posted By: jasperkitti69 @ 08/01/2008 5:25:04 PM

        I know some wonderful people of the LDS faith. Its just the members who effect my daily life that upsets me. Every six months I am visited by missionaries who try to show me "the light". Each time I turn them down and express that I am comfortable in my faith as I have it. And each time they counter with a scripture or some line they learned at the missionary training center. I crave a good sit down with someone who doesn't want to sell me their faith but discuss it.
        Another instance of the LDS faith running my everyday life, may sound petty but, is the businesses in the Utah area closing for Sunday. Not all but most do and if I need emergency services, or pedialyte for my kids, or I just can't cook that day, I have to fight with the "no working on the sabbath" crap.
        I also want to walk into a church and the chapel to support a friend who's choice is to follow that faith and not be pointed at, laughed at, or asked to remove my Pagan jewelry.
        There are many pet peeves I have with this church, but I can say, I just wish the church would look at the big picture of the world , rather than the small picture of theirs.

      • Posted By: asberry080808 @ 07/20/2008 10:38:25 PM

        Posting 3 times was a misclicking of the "Post Your Comment" link so for that I apologize. I am not filled with hate but with hope and joy in the Lord. I do know the Truth of what LDS stands for and know that LDS members thrive off of any persecution so with that I will end my posts as not to feed into their need for righteousness. I know what I believe and and I know what LDS believe. You can use the same words but mean totally different things. I wish you all the best and will not argue with what has brought you happiness. I will leave it up to God to judge. Have a wonderful evening and a blessed life!
        God Bless

        • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/21/2008 2:24:03 AM

          How could it have been a "misclicking" three times??? The name under which the comment was posted is different two of the times. Once under asberry080808 and twice under asberry99. You expect us to believe you are an honest person when you lie and try to deceive us over something as trivial as this???

        • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/21/2008 2:16:20 AM

          There is a HUGE difference between thriving off of persecution(as you say we love to do)and feeling the need to stand up for truth and righteousness. Do you think we enjoy reading the lies and mistruths spread by those on this post? You think that is in some way comforting to me because it gives me a chance to thrive in the face of persecution? No, not at all. We do it out of duty to our faith and our God so that hopefully those with open minds and hearts will see though the misrepresentations and understand us for who we ultimately are- a group of people who loves Christ and strives to be more like him everyday. I would say to any person unfamiliar with the church- Check it out for yourself. Visit with us just so that you can learn more. Visit our websites- lds.org and mormon.org to find out first hand what it is that we believe. Don't base your thoughts on the biased opinions of the few who feign Christ like behavior but demonstrate bigotry and intolerance at every turn.

    • Posted By: a_distinguished_gentleman @ 07/20/2008 2:02:33 AM

      I guess you are utilizing Hitler's Nazi propogandist's, Joseph Goebbels, strategy for success: If you tell a big enouogh lie aften enough it eventually becomes the truth. I suppose you feel publishing your hatred filled post three times will somehow make it more acceptable.

  • Posted By: jasperkitti69 @ 08/01/2008 5:06:58 PM

    I don't think this is all about publicity. This about expressing one's self even when you are confined in the limitations of the LDS faith. He stepped outside of the neatly wrapped box of the LDS rule booked faith and tried something new. Of course the LDS higher ups aren't going to like that. They want you to follow their rules as they have set them and of course be justifying that the come directly from God via their prophet. As you can see I don't agree with the Doctrine or Rules made by that faith. However, its also the people interpretting the rules that upsets me too.
    Some Mormons are the best people to ever be around.......and some, well, they aren't. They cram their beliefs down your throat as a personal mission to save you from the evils of the world. I greatly dislike that too. Chad, the maker of the calendar, did something that those rules never meant to have happen. And IMO I'm proud of his "creativity" and can't wait to get my own.

  • Posted By: MissMusic-Heart&Soul @ 07/19/2008 10:31:50 PM

    I'm sorry. This is rediculous. First of all, I'm totally against churches having a right to throw people out. That's like saying "You've done something bad. SO! Instead of forcing you to go to church and learn what you did was wrong,we're gonna throw you out so you never figure out how to fix yourself." THINK ABOUT THAT! Plus, I don't think the calendar was wrong at all. So bite me.

    • Posted By: Presbyterian1978 @ 07/19/2008 11:04:01 PM

      the mormons are an cult they took stuff out of the holy bible to make there own there is no such thing as the third testament of christ in early america that is a bunch of bull 50,000 ft of bull. what the mormons did was really wrong and they will pay for it on judgement day when jesus comes back.what does it say in revelation chapter 22 verse 19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
      thats what the mormons did they took stuff out of Gods holy book and made there own book of mormon they are the same as satan worshippers they mis lead people and make them belive in untrue stuff.when judgement day comes they will see that they was wrong and will be spending forever in hell for what they did.God dos'nt like blasphemy and that is exactly what the mormons is doing.

      • Posted By: paladin7 @ 07/28/2008 9:44:45 PM

        Wow. You are a very mean ans illy man if you believe that a loving God would do that to so many good and Christ-like people. Very sad. Ratn away friend. The spirit fo contention is ripe within you. But leave me out of your hatred quest. Thanks, prayers, and nter Your Comment

    • Posted By: hikawan @ 07/20/2008 12:14:28 AM

      You're confusing Mormon excommunication with the kind more common in Catholicism. Excommunicated Mormons are still allowed to associate with the Mormon community - they just lose some privileges (in fact, that's pretty true of Catholicism as well). In both faiths, return is totally possible and shunning of the excommunicated person is not encouraged. On top of that, the guy really didn't seem to into the organized church anyway, so the excommunication just made it formal. Besides, how would you like to be told who you can and cannot have in your club? I'm totally against music stations having the right to tell me what songs are the best 40 in a given week. If it angers me that much, I start my own podcasting station called "BiteMeFM", but I DON'T insist that music stations start playing only music I like.

  • Posted By: Presbyterian1978 @ 07/19/2008 11:15:09 PM

    the mormons are an cult they took words from the holy bible to make there own bible the book of mormon which is a bunch of bull.there is ony 2 testaments of God the old and new there is not a third testament of christ being in early america that is a bunch of bull.they are in the same boat as satan worshippers cause what they do is mislead people by telling them all these lies and every thing what does it say in revelation chapter 22 verse 19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
    and that is what they did when the mormons made there book of mormons what they did but are to blind to see was blasphemy.they committed blasphemy in they eyes of God.when jesus comes the second time they will be judged and they will see that what they did was wrong and spend forever in hell.

    • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/19/2008 11:47:48 PM

      Wow???how Christ-like. Apparently I am condemned to spend forever in hell because I live a life in which I try to follow the teachings of Christ.

      No one ???took??? words from the Bible as you claim to make our own ???Bible.??? The Book of Mormon is ???Another Testament of Jesus Christ??? not the Bible. I read the Bible as well as the Book of Mormon. It is the record of other prophets in another part of the world who testified of his divinity. Is it so heretical and blasphemous to think that Jesus, as infinitely loving and compassionate as he was, would have visited those who worshipped him on other continents? Are we to assume that those in Jerusalem were the only ones privileged enough to know about our Savior and his plan of redemption? Would it make sense to think that God would have granted those in other parts of the world he populated this same knowledge so that they could also receive salvation at his hand? I don???t know what kind of idea you have of God, but mine says that God loves his children and wants all to know how they can return to him and therefore sent Christ, after his mortal ministry in Jerusalem, to those others who needed that same witness. Read John 10:16.

      • Posted By: Presbyterian1978 @ 07/19/2008 11:57:08 PM

        you people only belive in jesus not god there is really 3 Gods God the father God the son and God the holy spirit the trinity.something you mormons know nothing about.

        • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/20/2008 12:08:17 AM

          Hmmm...it is awesome how educated you are concerning my religion. AS A MATTER OF FACT as a "Mormon" we believe in God the Eternal Father, in his son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. Three distinct beings, one in purpose. Read our Articles of Faith some time if you wish to know the truth or you can keep on believing the half-truths and lies told by others.

          • Posted By: petespirate @ 07/20/2008 12:47:02 AM

            There are NOT three distinct personages.. IF YOU ARE MORMON-- You do not believe the same as the Holy Bible.. There is ONE God, Then there is Jesus his Holy Son (God in man form) and then there is His Holy Spirit, what we are left with after HE DIED for our sins....

            • Posted By: paladin7 @ 07/20/2008 12:54:14 AM

              How does Acts 7:55-56 fit into your ideaology of the Godhead?

              • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/20/2008 1:07:30 AM

                As well as Matthew 3:17- check it out. After Jesus' baptism a voice comes from heaven saying "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." If they are all one in the same, who then was talking to Christ from heaven after his baptism? Was he talking to himself, simultaneously while on earth and in heaven at the same time? Food for thought.

                • Posted By: petespirate @ 07/20/2008 3:01:22 AM

                  I like how you take one scripture and warp it to fit your ideals.. try reading the text around it in its entirety before making it look like it goes along side your articles and doctrines.

                  • Posted By: paladin7 @ 07/28/2008 9:41:21 PM

                    Wow. So you didn't take any passage or scripture or assert any platform of orthodox behaviour valvalues or standards, just bash away and avoid the question??? Smokescreen?our Comment

                  • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/20/2008 11:24:17 AM

                    In reference to the scripture given in Acts - here is Steven talking starting in verse 51 so that all can see that nothing has been "warped" and so that all can read it in most of its entirety. If you wish to read it all please open your bible. Thanks.
                    51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
                    52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
                    53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
                    54 ¶ When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
                    55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
                    56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
                    57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
                    58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man???s feet, whose name was Saul.
                    59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
                    60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

                  • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/20/2008 11:17:23 AM

                    Here are the four scriptures previous to that one...I have read them in their "entirety" and post them here for all to read as you claim I have "warped" them to fit my beliefs.
                    13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
                    14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
                    15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
                    16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a ddove, and lighting upon him:
                    17 And lo a avoice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

        • Posted By: artist84 @ 07/20/2008 12:10:20 AM

          Correction... I happen to know that Mormons DO believe in the Godhead. Meaning, God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Maybe you should actually check on their website to make sure you got your facts straight: www.lds.org

          • Posted By: petespirate @ 07/20/2008 12:50:23 AM

            The facts you LDS MAKE UP to make your Faith seem so AWESOME. Does that website talk about the "Christians" your cult had murdered or all the people that have been killed for leaving your cult don't you call that blood atonement

            • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/20/2008 1:13:21 AM

              What fact did I "make up"? Please explain because I have no idea what you are talking about. That is what we believe- God the Father, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. As far as your diversion into "mormons killing christians" please give specific examples of members who have been murdered for leaving the church and we will talk. These false allegations of ex-members being murdered for leaving the church have long since been disproven. Perhaps you should look for more recent anti-mormon literature which could serve you better.

              • Posted By: petespirate @ 07/20/2008 2:54:52 AM

                I am talking about the massacre that happened in 1857,"never really happened" Or the undocumented cases of people found dead once they left the church. .... But ya your right just keep believing.. But from a Biblical standpoint there are many things you guys see differently then Christians.. Like for one you see Jesus as the brother of all spirits born in heaven soo He is the spirit bro of Lucifer .. This doesn't even make since according to the Bible. You also believe that Jesus was the literal son of god and his goddess wife.. according to the bible not so Matthew 1:20... Also you say Jesus' church ceased to exist and joseph Smith came to restore it.. In the Bible, Jesus built his Church and it would exist for all time Matthew 16:18. Anyway believe what you want. we will find out when we die and are asked if we know Him..

                • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/20/2008 11:04:25 AM

                  If theses cases are "undocumented" as you say, then how is it that we or even you know about them. Please provide evidence. As for the massacre in 1857, if you are speaking of what is referred to as the Mountain Meadows Massacre then yes, we do acknowledge that it did in fact happen. Any objective Mormon will tell you that it was a terrible tragedy that occurred. Sadly, men of our church performed that act but it in NO WAY was ordered or sanctioned or approved by the presidency of the church. Those men acted on their own accord and will be judged just like you or me one day for their actions. However, it is the goal of conspiracy theorists like yourself to pinpoint that one atrocious deed to the leaders of the church in an effort to slander it and claim outrageous ideas that the church has a practice of killing innocent people. As a church we have tried to make amends for what happened that day, we have done all we can to apologize for the despicable actions of a few of our members but some people just won't let it go.

      • Posted By: Presbyterian1978 @ 07/19/2008 11:53:39 PM

        that is such bull the only prophets was the 12 there was no others .i can already see the lies in ur eyes may God have mercy on ur soul for beliving them mormon lies.

        • Posted By: paladin7 @ 07/20/2008 12:59:14 AM

          I thought Abraham , Moses, and many others in the Bible are depicted and validated by many chruches in tas Prphets. If I read my bible correctly Amos 3:7 applies here.

        • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/20/2008 12:13:28 AM

          You can see the lies in my eyes? Impressive. Well, could you please provide scriptural evidence supporting your claim that there "was the 12 there was no others"? It would be much appreciated.

    • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/19/2008 11:47:14 PM

      I know what it says in Revelation, and historically speaking John was speaking in reference to that specific revelation he received while exiled on the isle of Patmos. He wasn???t speaking about the Bible. The Bible didn???t even exist at that time and didn???t come into existence until 397 AD at the Council of Carthage when the leaders of the early church met and it was officially decided which books would be included and canonized and in what order they would be. Sure, there were writings of the apostles as well as the writings of the Old Testament Prophets, but to claim that this one scripture applies to the ENTIRE Bible is a fallacy. You also must consider the fact that it is widely believed that John received the book of Revelation even before he wrote his gospel which would have put him in direct contradiction to what he received in Revelation.

  • Posted By: Sierra125 @ 07/19/2008 11:26:57 PM

    Mormons are so lost and delusional, (like all religious people.) Making them worse than others is that they are on this earth to prove themselves to be righteous enough to become gods in the afterlife. That's right, they think they are potentially destined to be gods for other planets in the universe. That what they teach in their Temples.

    • Posted By: paladin7 @ 07/20/2008 12:41:44 AM

      To quote the Bible; we are all sons and daughters of God. Hmmm! What do es that mean AS Paul says wer are the offspring of God. Hmmm. What does that really mean. I think your protrayal is twia little twisted.

      • Posted By: Jomin @ 07/20/2008 10:16:49 AM

        What is YOUR potential, Sierra125? What do you want to achieve in your life?

        • Posted By: Sierra125 @ 07/20/2008 11:52:42 PM

          Hi Jomin--my desire is to live life, be nice, fair, honest to everyone. I don't want to be a member of a church where you have to spend so much time home teaching, picking grapes, meetings, meetings, meeting and more meetings, paying 10 percent of my earnings, and glad handing everyone on Sunday.

          • Posted By: paladin7 @ 07/28/2008 9:39:47 PM

            Interesting and valid points to live by, but you did not help me to understand what those passages of scripture in the bible mean?

          • Posted By: Jomin @ 07/22/2008 12:06:59 PM

            Sounds like a nice, decent desire for life to me, and I compliment you on that :-).

            Yes, Mormons can appear to spend lots of their time on "uneccessary activities and services", but if you stop and think- in this rushing world where time is everything, why Mormons choose to do those things to waste their time? What is the true source of power that gives them the desire to serve and why they are happy to do so... There are so much more into it than those meetings and grape picking. So much more that it makes the meetings and grape-picking activities to be a a piece of crumb that fall off a lare loaf of bread.

            Specially the 10% tithing- while the US rate of saving is in the negative, why Mormons give up their 10% of income for God?

            Maybe when you find out what it is all about, you will have a better understanding of the religion and the true source of faith and happiness that Mormons have obtained through God. That same power that has fueled them - ordinary people - to do extraordianry work, since 1836...

            Take care!

      • Posted By: Jomin @ 07/20/2008 10:20:45 AM

        What is YOUR potential, Sierra125? What is the purpose of your life?

  • Posted By: ScienceIsProof @ 07/20/2008 12:11:31 AM

    If you choose to believe that book of B.S. and Lies that is your choice but because I don't believe a single word you Bible Thumpers spout does't condemn me to hell. That is exactly the crap you people try to use to support your cause , ya'll a full of ****. If I don't believe what YOU believe then I'm going to hell WHATEVER! I DO NOT accept your version I DO NOT BELIEVE in your book written 1000 years after the fact. This was written by man who has many reasons to manipulate and omit whatever they themselves have deemed inappropriate to their needs at whatever time that it was written. I believe in myself and the solid facts of our science. You Zealots can believe what you want leave me out of it. There is only one True Faith so out of all these religions someone is full of ****. Believe in Jesus accept your teachings my ass. what makes your beliefs more accurate than the next mans?

    • Posted By: paladin7 @ 07/20/2008 12:39:11 AM

      Perhaps having a living prophet on the earth today has something to do with it?

      • Posted By: ScienceIsProof @ 07/20/2008 1:07:19 AM

        There is no prophet in religion only Profit. Believe in what we tell you we can save your soul for 10%. Name your BS living Prophet.

        • Posted By: Twister52 @ 07/20/2008 1:21:32 AM

          The "B.S. (your phrase) prophet" you so snidely refer to is a man named Thomas S. Monson. A more godly man you'll never meet. That's because he has indeed been chosen by God to teach the world what the Lord wants us to do. He is, in fact, a prophet.

          Adam, Moses, Noah, Abraham, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Amos, the Apostle Paul, to name a few....and now, Thomas S. Monson.

          Do I know that for sure? Yes, because God told me so. Am I sure it was God?

          Yes.

          Dan Maloy
          Enid, OK

          • Posted By: ScienceIsProof @ 07/20/2008 1:31:15 AM

            your kind scares me in the David Koresh sort of way. Wasn't Charles Manson a self asserted prophet? Thats the zealousy I refer to. You talked to God my ass. God told me I'm the purest of christians so God talks to me .......Scary that you would believe this get some mental help. The Bible is a book of lies, truths distorted to manipulate the weak unable to think for themselves. This book can be interpreted any way that you need to fit your needs.

            • Posted By: paladin7 @ 07/28/2008 9:28:57 PM

              Yes, and your kind scares us. You are intereestingly devoid of any standard or platform and can thereby sjump all over the place in your ridicule as y. Very sad. If you would like to have an intelligent discussion about principles of good any time please outline the principles you hold dear. i promise I will not trasxh them as you seem to be the master of disaster on that front. Those who engage in such are immune from any retorrt becasue they pretend to no orthodoxy or standards .

  • Posted By: Eye Of The Beholder @ 07/27/2008 10:10:28 PM

    Um no matter what it was the person's choice and I do not care what religion, GOD does not condemn someone for such a lack of conduct and as such no one church or otherwise can comdemn such based upon such. Let the higher authority as in God decide what is right or wrong not a bunch of prudish wannabe's no matter if they felt justisfied or not! Um also when one cast out a wayward bird instead of thinking before acting, then they are just as guilty in my eyes. Think about that!

  • Posted By: desert rat @ 07/27/2008 8:33:29 PM

    Why does Newsweek think this nonsense is newsworthy? Organizations (including Newsweek) every day discipline members/employees who step out of line -- and it's beyond question that's what this did did - so why report this one instance of discipline. From his published comments, it's clear that he got exactly what he wanted; severance from a religion he no longer wants to be part of and publicity that will sell more of his calendars. Is Newsweek next going to give hima free full page ad for his next production? Seems to me that's what you've done.

  • Posted By: mel8986 @ 07/24/2008 3:09:26 PM

    It is always a pleasure to discuss sensitive matters with reasonable people. You have a great weekend as well!!

  • Posted By: mel8986 @ 07/24/2008 1:44:41 PM

    Jomin, I disagree with your logic. No one person excluded me, I receive invitations. I am just not welcome. The people who are getting married are doing the gracious thing by sending invites to everyone in their circle of friends. These people chose to be married in the LDS temple because that is their faith. I chose to be married in the Catholic church, all were welcome to attend. That is the point I am trying to make. It is a building. Sacred rituals or not, it is a building....an invited guest to a wedding is not there to do anything other than be a guest. They would not be there to watch any rituals or rites that are clandestine, they would be there to watch 2 people who love eachother make a commitment. It's pretty simple I think. If someone who was not Catholic came to church with me, I would not expect them to take holy communion...they can sit and enjoy the service. Nothing more is expected of them. None of this has anything to do with a personal relationship with anyone. Personally, I do not think of the mormon temple as Gods house, so I do not understand that comment, perhaps I misread. You cannot say that EVERYONE is welcome to the temple. You CAN say that those who are baptized LDS and say that they are living the gospel for one year are welcome to the temple....that is far from everyone. Every person who enters with their card knows if they fit the bill or not...but if they have the card, they go in and whoever makes the choice of who gets a card is none the wiser. Please let us not compare King Solomons time to present day, I know that we all know better than that. This has gotten a bit off topic I think...back to the boys...they knowingly did what they did and objectified themselves in that way by choice. I hardly think that the person who made the calendar is entirely to blame. I have to wonder who made this into such a huge deal...was it the person who was kicked out? I guess he did it to get people talking. It worked :-)

    • Posted By: Jomin @ 07/24/2008 2:21:03 PM

      You can come to our chapel every Sunday for worship service also. I am sure not everyone believe LDS temple is God's house, but LDS people do and they have a certain rules to apply to what they call sacred to themselves.

      Consider this scenario: that couple decided to get married in Italy and they invited you to attend. It cost $2000 to fly there and another $5000 to stay..., and you couldn't afford it. Is it the airline problem and the hotel problem that you couldn't go or is it that couple problem to pick a place you can't afford?

      Back to the calendar, you are right! I think the creator was successful in getting his publicity.

      It's been a pleasure to discuss with you about a subject that are somewhat sensitive... I appreciate your way of thinking and have a great weekend (starting tomorrow :-) )

  • Posted By: mel8986 @ 07/24/2008 12:19:02 PM

    Well, in my defense, I said "many" not "all". I cannot apologize if my words were misinterpereted. I have met many LDS followers who truly believe that they are somehow better than the rest of us. I have discussed this with others that have experienced the same thing. You are right, it IS sad. I will NEVER understand the fact that non LDS followers are not permitted into the temple for whatever reason. For a church to assume (sometimes falsly) that followers of their religion are more...I am at a loss for words on this one, so I will say "Holy"...than others is, to me, unbelievable. It is hurtful and I take it personally when someone I know is to be married and I cannot attend simply because I am not believed to be "holy" enough. I am quite open minded and have NEVER made a snap judgement based on the building that a person worships in. It is only from personal conversations and interactions that my opinions are what they are. Unfortunately, I have experienced a great deal of hypocracy where I live...I am sure it is not like that everywhere and maybe someday someone will prove me wrong.
    To the person who compared these RMs to Miley Cyrus...Miley Cyrus is 15 years old for heavens sake. These boys are of legal age and were able to somehow survive foreign countries, ignorance, being away from their families and friends and all of the other things that missionaries go through for 2 years. You don't expect people to believe that sort of comparison, do you?

    • Posted By: Jomin @ 07/24/2008 1:02:36 PM

      Also, the hurtful feeling should be directed towards the person who chose to get married in the temple and excluded you, not the temple and its already-existing, thousand of year implanted rules and law (think of the temple in Moses and King Solomon time, not everyone could enter).

      If that person made the choice to become LDS and get married in the temple and you are not part of it, I think it's more of a personal relationship problem than the church's problem.

    • Posted By: Jomin @ 07/24/2008 12:53:10 PM

      Regarding the temples, LDS perform sacred covenants with God, and I personally believe it's unfit to invite someone to make covenants that they are not willing to nor care for to keep. The temples are open for public tours with explanation of what their functions are before it's dedicated to God's service, which is to give the members who are ready to make a life-time commitment to serve God to make their covenants. There is nothing about discrimination about that. Just like you can tour a fire station, you can hear the fire men to explain to you what they do on their fire truck, but when there is a fire, I don't think they would invite you to drive along to fight fire.
      EVERYONE is welcome to the temple as long as that person abide the prerequisites, that is to get baptized to the church and live the gospel for one year. Simple of that. I was one of those who could not come, and I am one of those who can come. So, if there is such a desire to enter God's house, there is a a WIDE open way to achieve that. Good luck!

  • Posted By: mel8986 @ 07/22/2008 3:11:50 PM

    I think, and this is just one persons opinion, that if more people actually practiced what they preached, there would be less controversy surrounding ANY orginized religion. I have seen that many LDS followers truly believe that they are without sin. That is partly why they are spoken about so negatively. I had a neighbor who was cheating on his wife while she was pregnant with their 4th child. He was in the priesthood and lead the mens group at his ward. He went to his sister-in-law's wedding in the temple (someplace where I, as a non member, was not welcomed as a guest because it is a place of such great holiness) and no one was the wiser. When his girlfriend got pregnant and he left his wife, he was no longer welcome. But, believe me, he held his head high when he walked into that temple. As long as he attended church, wrote his check and led his groups he was just fine. I, on the other hand, was a sinner who's daughter could not play with his children because we were not a part of his ward. I have experienced first hand that many LDS church members will do just about anything to avoid associating with non-church members. To me, that says that your faith is on shaky ground...not willing to even hear what anyone else has to say. I think this is why this person in the article did what he did. He wanted people to know that LDS followers are in fact human and they are not any different than anyone else. I think that message needed to be directed at members more so than non members.

    • Posted By: mjc1925 @ 07/23/2008 12:44:49 PM

      This man was obviously not a very nice person, but to state that many LDS believe they have no sin is erroneous. EVERYBODY sins, most of us on a daily basis. That is what repentance is for. That is why the Savior died for us, to make it possible for us to go to heaven, since the scriptures say we are all sinners and have fallen short of the glory of God. I'm sorry this person was so unkind to you. Everybody has to answer for their actions, and he certainly has caused a lot of pain. But to be fair, since nobody is perfect, is it any more fair to paint and entire group of people with the tainted brush of a few?

    • Posted By: mjc1925 @ 07/23/2008 12:39:02 PM

      You are very right. More people SHOULD practice what they preach. It is sad that the person to whom you referred did such a horrible thing. You are also correct in stating that nobody is perfect. I'm sorry that this family set such a bad example for you. I can tell you from MY personal experience that the majority of LDS DO NOT BELIEVE THEY ARE WITHOUT SIN

  • Posted By: Thewhitesmiter @ 07/23/2008 3:48:47 AM

    Something went wrong in the same way as the photo of Ms. Cyrus in the bra went wrong and imo the Mormon men were taken advantage of by a godless cynic out for a buck..

  • Posted By: Twister52 @ 07/20/2008 2:26:54 AM

    The article said that the 2009 calendar featured to openly-gay Mormon men.

    I don't know where the idea originated that you can be "gay" and be "Mormon" because quite frankly, you can't.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but if someone is "really" LDS they won't be practicing a homosexual lifestyle. The 2 are completely incompatible. Someone may profess to be gay and LDS but if it's known by LDS leaders that someone is practicing homosexuality then they will be encouraged to repent (yes, "repent", it means "to change".....) or they will lose their membership in the LDS church.

    The Lord does not accept homosexual behavior. He didn't in Old Testament times, He didn't in New Testament times and He doesn't accept it now and He won't accept it in the future and neither will His church.

    Period.

    • Posted By: candyprincess @ 07/20/2008 10:35:34 PM

      The LDS Church has a "reprogramming" group called Evergreen, to try to get homosexuals to see the error of their ways. That would be one of so many issues I have with the church and I'm not gay. However, I know many LDS members and they are lovely people. It takes all kinds of people to make the world go 'round. That's the flaw in the LDS thinking...they think it should only take LDS members to make the world go 'round.

      • Posted By: Jomin @ 07/22/2008 2:55:02 PM

        The world will go round without the LDS church, but the kingdom of God will not be established without the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, which was restored and taught through the LDS church.

        There are people in the church that struggle with homosexuality. However, to have a weakness and through the power and grace of the atonement of Christ, work to overcome the weakness is completely different than to indulge onself in that temptation and practicing the homosexual lifestyle.
        God loves all his children, including his children with homosexuality struggle. He accept the pentent hearts. He does forgives. And that is what we believe.

      • Posted By: AHenrie @ 07/21/2008 2:34:21 AM

        I would definitely say that you are incorrect in thinking that we believe that only "LDS" people make the world go round. I have friends of many other denominations- Catholics, Presbyterians, even Atheists, who everyday do their part to make this world a better place. I have never once thought that all the good in this world eminates from within our church. It takes people of all faiths and cultures to make the world a better place to live in and we must figure out how to do it together, constructively. We are all sons and daughters of God and regardless of whatever belief system we may have little by little all of our good deeds combined make for a world of difference.

  • Posted By: mel8986 @ 07/22/2008 9:13:50 AM

    I stand corrected on the excomunication part then, I was mistaken. None the less, if that is the case, he was thrown out of the church for not wearing his garments, not paying them his 10% and not worshiping in their building. It took them 6 years to realize that he was not doing those things? 6 years and a calendar. I believe that, no matter what they are saying publicly, it was the calendar that did it. I know many people who do not attend services in the church, do not tithe and do not wear garments...havent for years and years and none have been officially kicked out. Drinking, smoking, tattooed, divorced, broke and still are on the roster. I wonder if the treatment of the missionaries would have been the same had they been girls.

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