Who’s the Pariah Now?

Being the ambassador from Israel has never been a good way to make friends at the United Nations. But Dan Gillerman says that over the past five years he has forged ties with diplomats from several countries that officially scorn his own. In that time he has also had to manage the fallout from the invasion of Iraq, the 2006 Lebanon war and the growing Iranian nuclear program. With his term coming to an end, he spoke with NEWSWEEK's Lally Weymouth about Iran, the peace process and last week's prisoner exchange between Israel and Hizbullah. Excerpts:

 WEYMOUTH: What do you think about negotiating with a terrorist organization like Hizbullah?
GILLERMAN: Israel has never dealt directly with Hizbullah. We were dealing through mediators, through the Germans, but never directly with Hizbullah.

Do you approve of the exchange?
I think it has problems because it signals to the other side that Israel is willing to pay a price even for dead soldiers, which may make the other side feel that they can be irresponsible in dealing with our prisoners. On the other hand, it shows Israel's commitment to soldiers.

Why can't Israel get Gilad Shalit [another kidnapped soldier] out of Gaza?
The price they are asking for Gilad Shalit is very high … the release of about 450 prisoners. Many of them are murderers with blood on their hands.

Is Israel going to do something to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power?
I think Israel should do everything in its power, literally everything, to prevent that mad regime in Tehran … from achieving nuclear weapons. I believe it is Israel's responsibility to its people, but I believe also it is the responsibility of the international community. Iran is a threat not just to Israel but to world peace and security. It is up to the international community to act rather than to expect Israel to act.

Knowing that the United States is going to change administrations, would you want to see Israel do something about Iran's nuclear program now?
As Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, I believe that all diplomatic efforts have not yet been exhausted. There were three sanctions resolutions adopted by the Security Council. We know the Iranian leadership and the Iranian people were not indifferent to these resolutions. They were quite rattled, not just by the sanctions, but mainly by the unanimity. I don't think Iran wants to be a pariah state.

Do you think that Saudi Arabia is building a nuclear program?
I have no doubt that if Iran is allowed to develop its nuclear program, many other countries in the region—including Saudi Arabia and Egypt—will follow suit. Saudi Arabia is probably more threatened by Iran than Israel is. Iran has designs on Saudi Arabian oil.

You met Benazir Bhutto last year. What was your impression of her?
She was a very charming, charismatic lady. She told us that when she was prime minister, the heads of Pakistan's atomic-energy agency came to her and said, "Pakistan is in deep economic trouble. We can make a lot of money by providing know-how and selling our nuclear capability." She said, "You are crazy, I will never allow it. The only three countries who would be willing to buy it from us are Iran, Libya and Syria, and I forbid you to do it."