Young, Gay and Murdered

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  • Posted By: sigzero @ 07/21/2008 4:18:31 PM

    This is less about the child being "gay" and more about the school system failing to deal with the problem. The child should never have been allowed to dress and act the way he did. The school system and the counselor are responsible. Yes, it is horrible that one child killed another, I don't deny that. The school should never have condoned the way Larry was acting. They should have stopped it and a real counselor should have stepped in.

    • Posted By: parsifal81 @ 07/23/2008 2:51:00 PM

      "the school systems failure to address the problem"

      The PROBLEM is homophobia and people like you!

  • Posted By: BlueMom @ 07/23/2008 9:46:12 AM

    There are ALWAYS better ways of dealing with sexual harassment than shooting someone in the head, and this eigth grade murderer should have known that. Blaming the victim,, his English teacher, and their assistant principal, as this article does, only fuels the fire in a culture that has been burning the GLBT community at the stake for centuries.
    As a former middle school teacher, I have worked with students in sixth to eighth grade who are struggling with all kinds of questions about their identity, sexual and otherwise. Unfortunately, as teachers, we were prevented from engaging our students in direct, productive discussions regarding the challenges our students were facing every day with issues of sexual identity and tolerance. Our schools are so fearful of litigation or being accused of "pushing an agenda" that we are prevented from addressing the clear and pressing needs of our students for guidance and open, productive discussion about the very real issues they face on a daily basis. Apparently, somebody has to bring a gun to school and kill another kid in the middle of English class before it's okay to talk about these issues in an open, structured, productive way with kids.

    • Posted By: parsifal81 @ 07/23/2008 2:43:23 PM

      Right on! School administrations have their hands up against the wall in situations like these. They can't appear too gay friendly or the anti-gay lobby will hang them on the spot. At the same time they also can't hold double standards and have different expectations for different sexes in how they express their gender. Add to this the conservative insistance on silence and neglect, and you have a recipe for disaster!

  • Posted By: LxN8r @ 07/23/2008 1:58:24 PM

    ...and when is it criminal? Can YOU always tell? I worry that Ms. Epstein will be demonized by the forces of "morality" -- when probably she was just trying to be a sympathetic ear to a troubled kid -- which is, in fact, her job. I worry that the LGBT community will seek to demonize the other boy, or Larry's parents, or the school community -- without recognizing the complexity of issues. It may be that Larry would not have died if he'd been a girl teasing a boy -- but he wasn't ; nor was he mature enough to understand that his actions might have serious, unforeseen consequences. That's not blaming the victim -- that's dealing with adolescence; where actions often outpace common sense. Larry King's story is the definition of tragedy

  • Posted By: OpinionsCount @ 07/22/2008 10:07:49 AM

    I have to say as a gay rights supporter, that this is more about sexual harassment than Larry King's sexuality. Being gay doesn't give you the right to harass people. The school was probably intimidated by Joy Epstein and her incorrect information. Too bad no one challenged her. As for Larry, he was out of control and so in your face that no one dared tell him to take it easy. He disrupted the school with his behavior and the school did not seek outside expert help. They felt Joy Epstein because of her sexuality was an expert. They were wrong-actually dead wrong. Brandon copied the same violence that he knew at home
    by shooting someone that bothered him. He really could not be expected to verbalize his fears when Larry King had complete control of the situation because the administration was intimidated by his sexuality. This by no means gives Brandon the right to kill Larry. Larry had every right to live without fear or harassment or harm, but Brandon also had the very same rights. I believe if the school had controlled the situation and punished Larry for his sexual harassment and brought in experts to deal with the chaos they could not control, the ending would have not been tragic for both Larry and Brandon.

    • Posted By: tgreen_KS @ 07/23/2008 12:47:32 PM

      Well put. Two lives have ended, one literally. Where were the adults? My kids have both been called on the carpet for much less than has been alledged to have occured. Situations were dealt with. Were we perfect in our actions/reactions - no, but we don't have dead children either.

    • Posted By: informedteen @ 07/22/2008 7:35:49 PM

      most logical thing said on this board.

    • Posted By: corrlove @ 07/22/2008 3:42:48 PM

      I agree!!!

  • Posted By: Thewhitesmiter @ 07/23/2008 1:02:59 AM

    Another thing to be looked at in this case is that the issues at large wasn't so much about homosexuality as it was about crossdressing whcih appears to have been more of a threat than actual homosexuality and if you look at the alarming statistics on the murders of young transvestities, you get a bigger picture but in this article there was no mention of those. Being a transvestitite can be much more complicated than being a homosexual. And if you look at the Hollywood movies portraying men dressing as women for laughs you may get a further diagnosis of the social illness surrounding reactions to male crossdressing.

    • Posted By: Dr_Rod @ 07/23/2008 9:19:34 AM

      This is a point that I raised three days ago and several others have raised also, but it keeps getting ignored. Larry may well have been gay, but this article does not address that issue at all! The title leads us to believe the real problem here was Larry's gayness, but the article itself does anything but prove he was, in fact gay. He cross dressed; he was flamboyant about it. He himself said that he did it to rile other people up. Was he gay? Maybe, but no one - including us all posting here - can say "he was killed because of his sexuality." There is NO evidence he was gay or that gay had anything to do with it.

      • Posted By: SueLiz @ 07/23/2008 12:44:35 PM

        Well, I don't know about that, Dr. Rod. If he wasn't gay he, Larry certainly knew how to push all of the gay buttons. Either way, it's immaterial. The GLBT has done such an excellent job of associating themselves with the transgender that the average person doesn't differentiate the two. Transgender = Homosexual. For that matter, the GLBT has made the same association to post operative transsexuals, the majority of which identify neither as homosexual NOR transgender...simply female (or male).

      • Posted By: SueLiz @ 07/23/2008 12:37:02 PM

        Well, I don't know, Dr. Rod. The article seemed to indicate that if Larry wasn't gay, at the least he pushed all the gay buttons. Either way, the GLBT has done such an excellent job of associating transgender with homosexuality, the public at large certainly doesn't differentiate between the two...just as don't differentiate post operative transsexuals from transgender.

      • Posted By: Bhamdude40s @ 07/23/2008 11:26:22 AM

        Excuse me but the article does say He went to Brandon and ask hiim to be his valentine... In front of hsi other Basketball friends and Brandons friends teased him about having little babies... HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN WITHOUT SEX? Had Larry been dressed up or just plain butch going up to bradon and asking him that is what initiated the situation. I am not sure Brandon might have killed him becuase as the article says Larry said that hey were boyfreinds for a while... Maybe ( and it does happen ) Bradon did let larry do something and larry has already said he would tell... Larry will not be around to testify but If that was the situation u can bet Brandons not going to let it be known.

  • Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/22/2008 8:18:57 AM

    What is wrong with the people on here that think this kid deserved being brutally murdered for being gay? If he wasn't gay, it would be an open and shut case in your small bigoted minds. Murder is wrong. Being gay didn't mean this kid deserved to die. I'm shocked that after all of the racial struggles, where being simply being black got people killed, there are still those out there that think like this.
    A child is dead. He has no chance to grow up, love, go to college, create a life of his own. Another child brutally murdered him. That 'child' knew better, and needs to be held accountable for his hatred.

    • Posted By: OnlyCureJGK @ 07/22/2008 1:40:19 PM

      Who is narrow minded? If he was not a cross dresser who acted homosexual Brandon would not be in jail for this crime maybe another. The whole point is his mental disorder and Brandon mental disorder led to someone being killed both could have been treated.
      Stop making exuses for either one they are both wrong. Cross dressing and Homosexual behavior is a mental illness ---- Murderer's have a mental instability.

      • Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/23/2008 12:09:09 PM

        The huge difference is that cross dressing doesn't hurt anyone--you can always look away. Cross dressers don't take another's life. Murder is the ultimate crime against another human, and you're right, only the sickest minds can do it.

  • Posted By: cynecure @ 07/22/2008 2:19:05 PM

    Murder is murder. It is difficult to argue with qualified parents who insist on home schooling their children when the alternative is sending them into "blackboard jungles" day in, day out until they're dead. And one wonders how grade schools, middle schools, high schools (even colleges) in America are much different than those in Afghanistan today. Oh there is a difference. Right. In Afghanistan they murder the girls. In America we murder the gays. - A Parent of a Gay Student.

    • Posted By: BAJUAMDA @ 07/22/2008 3:52:20 PM

      There's no such thing as a gay child.

      • Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/23/2008 12:04:44 PM

        That depends on what you consider a child. 15 year old girls and boys are sexually active and capable of reproducing, thus they have very real hormones and function organs. Just because they are legally children until 18 does NOT mean they aren't capable of sexual activity. In the scientific world, an animal is considered an adult when they are sexually mature. So yes, a 15 year old 'child' CAN be gay.

      • Posted By: KevinVT @ 07/22/2008 4:10:27 PM

        Yes there is: I was one, and so was my boyfriend.

        • Posted By: KnowsLove @ 07/22/2008 4:44:35 PM

          My fruit scented pencils and I were too!

  • Posted By: rosmyjohn @ 07/23/2008 10:26:49 AM

    It remains a remarkable phenomenon that well educated and informed individuals that are charged with educating, supporting and promoting the future success of our youth can find themselves speechless on the topic of identity development.
    It remains a mystery how we as a society can not acknowledge and respond to one of the most challenging times of an individuals life, their adolescent development and ALL of the questions, challenges and issues that youth are forced to face . . .often alone.
    As the director of ROSMY, Virginia's only resource designed to support gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and questioning youth and those that care about them, every day I encounter another young spirit that is being destroyed by messages of hatred, distain and contempt. These messages coming from people who pride themselves on being recognized as community leaders, faith-based leaders, educators, advocates and "concerned citizens".
    Whether Larry was straight, gay, transgender, or any other label we would like to give him, the reality is that both he and Brandon both needed help, support and guidance. They needed a community of people willing to talk about sexual and gender identity development in an open and informed way. They needed a community willing to intervene and stop the harrassment, bullying and hatred that was being built and continues to be built in our schools and communities every day. They needed to know that first and foremost each of them had value, belonged and were an important part of the world we live in.
    While I cannot speak to the issue of Larry's sexual or gender identity, what I can speak to is the fact that this is irrelevant to whether or not change is needed in the communities, institutions, and organizations that are responsible for ensuring success for our future, our youth. We must not just open, but dive into the dialogue of adolescent identity development and how we as a community can support ALL youth to achieve their greatest potential.

    • Posted By: Dr_Rod @ 07/23/2008 12:01:35 PM

      Well said and directly to the point. It seems that more and more, schools are being expected to do things they should not be doing (parenting kids) and prevented from doing things they should be (educating them about what is true, right, and healthy).

  • Posted By: hatebush @ 07/22/2008 10:32:08 PM

    Very tough case but Brandon acted in self defense. Larry should have never been allowed to go to that school he needed special schooling, he was mentally ill.

    • Posted By: summer4077 @ 07/23/2008 11:59:12 AM

      Self defense is when you are in imminent danger...what was Larry gonna do to Brandon? Throw a stiletto at him?

  • Posted By: OnlyCureJGK @ 07/22/2008 5:53:18 PM

    The truth of the matter hurts people who are perverted.

    The truth is cross dressing, homosexual behavior is a mental illness and becoming a social deseise.

    Mental health proffesionals need to stand up and address the issues with this and Murder in schools and with parents who permit and promote these behaviors.

    Will they do this probably not so the only cure is and will be God's Kingdom.

    • Posted By: sregis @ 07/23/2008 10:36:23 AM

      so-called god's kingdom is rife with so-called perversions. we're all in this together.

  • Posted By: DoctorAnon @ 07/23/2008 10:10:16 AM

    You know what people who like getting pissed on or love feet do? They know what they like is sick. They keep their sick fetishes to their little communities or in their homes. But you couldn't have a normal fetish, oh no. You had to make it a 'lifestyle. You had to build your entire lives around your retarded fetish. But then you took it a step further- You wanted to be able to show off your fetish, rub it in everyone's faces, and expect them to smile. You wanted to *** men, dress up in drag and makeup, and expect people to be proud? Then, you whine like nothing else when people tell you how retarded it all is, and cry 'gay-bashers' like you're some oppressed minority. You know what foot-lovers do? They keep it to them *** selves. There's MILLIONS of them. They know what they like is weird, and they don't grind it in everyone's faces. They deal with it like normal people.

  • Posted By: DoctorAnon @ 07/23/2008 10:08:45 AM

    You know what people who like getting pissed on or love feet do? They know what they like is sick. They keep their sick fetishes to their little communities or in their homes. But you couldn't have a normal fetish, oh no. You had to make it a 'lifestyle. You had to build your entire lives around your retarded fetish. But then you took it a step further- You wanted to be able to show off your fetish, rub it in everyone's faces, and expect them to smile. You wanted to *** men, dress up in drag and makeup, and expect people to be proud? Then, you whine like nothing else when people tell you how retarded it all is, and cry 'gay-bashers' like you're some oppressed minority. You know what foot-lovers do? They keep it to them *** selves. There's MILLIONS of them. They know what they like is weird, and they don't grind it in everyone's faces. They deal with it like normal people.

  • Posted By: DoctorAnon @ 07/23/2008 10:08:28 AM

    You know what people who like getting pissed on or love feet do? They know what they like is sick. They keep their sick fetishes to their little communities or in their homes. But you couldn't have a normal fetish, oh no. You had to make it a 'lifestyle. You had to build your entire lives around your retarded fetish. But then you took it a step further- You wanted to be able to show off your fetish, rub it in everyone's faces, and expect them to smile. You wanted to *** men, dress up in drag and makeup, and expect people to be proud? Then, you whine like nothing else when people tell you how retarded it all is, and cry 'gay-bashers' like you're some oppressed minority. You know what foot-lovers do? They keep it to them *** selves. There's MILLIONS of them. They know what they like is weird, and they don't grind it in everyone's faces. They deal with it like normal people.

  • Posted By: S-sky @ 07/23/2008 3:36:10 AM

    You peopleare going a bit far in talking about society this and that what was important here was what was going on in the minds of these two young men. The fact of the matter is what had happened to both of them in their personal lives caused this to happen. It is possible Larry watched a little too much tv and this caused him to believe that people accept open gayness even in middle school,obviously not the case.

  • Posted By: Thewhitesmiter @ 07/23/2008 12:44:03 AM

    oops. Keven, supposed to be Kevin

  • Posted By: Ihateliars @ 07/23/2008 12:10:01 AM

    Something is wrong when people comment on what they do not know. When they listen to gossip and half truths and think that is gospel, that is wrong. Everyone has an opinion and you know what they smell like.

  • Posted By: Bhamdude40s @ 07/22/2008 11:09:56 PM

    cont

    The thing is NOW you do see it on TV I didnt... You see it on the news.. It was not talked about on the news in teh 70's in Alabama. Boys are still going to have the strong feelings I had when I was the ages of Larry and I look at it now and it scares me that being raped was my punisment for my parents and other parents not talking to their kids about sex, but I do not see that changing and Larry is only one of many I am sure through the years that may find this kind of lesson until then Ill pray that the world gets less angry and more compasionate in every aspect of their life.

    R Black Birmingham Al

  • Posted By: Bhamdude40s @ 07/22/2008 11:09:10 PM

    was removed from gym class by the 8th grade. Although PE was a reqired subject to pass I would go into the gym and sweep the gym floor while the rest of the class was in dress out and role call. and they gave me crediI had a hard time reading this story as it was very simular to my situation 30 years ago. I came out in the 7th grade and t. I didnt dress like a girl but wasnt quiet about my sexuality. Like Larry I was called names in the halls and no one would associate with my but some girls. Why was I removed from gym class. The middle school that I attended was in rural Alabama and one day after dressing out after roll call the coach would mak eus walk track until he caleed us for calistetics. Before I knw it I was pushed into a wooded area beaten , raped and threatened if I told I would die. Needless to say the coach questioned me about what happened and I am sure he knew but I didnt tell. I was taken to the principles office and still wouldnt talk and my parents were called. I had a year younger brother like larry that told my parents that I was going around saying I was gay and they ask the principle to remove me from Gym Class and worked out the arrangment for me to sweep the floors. From the 7th grade thru the 12th grade I never took gym again. The boys that raped me were scared that I had told since I was called to the office but I told them I didnt and I wouldnt be in gym anymore. At this point I ran as far back into the closet as I could but the damage was already done and you know kids talk to other kids and everyone still knew. When ask after that if I was gay I would say no. My parents could not afford to put me in school so my grades went from straigh a's to c-. I went to school but hated being there and mostly was scared to be there.

    Only after I graduated did I tell my parents what happened that day. They knew what happened but not by who. Today 30 years later one is dead from drunk driving, one is In prision for murder and the other is still living with hsi mom and drinks about a case a day. At first I blamed myslef for what happened to me and later affer coming out agin at age 19 met my partner of 27 years.

    Yes there are alot of situations here involved and I dont have a answer, When I first began tellin gpeople I liek boys I had no idea what homosexuality was or gay. I liked boys. I knew that i bet between 10-11 is when I frist told my brother. My brother too was called names because of me and latr in life told me about it. I appoligised to him for any thing I cased him to go through and we are I guess as close as most late 40s brothers.
    Cont...

  • Posted By: Thewhitesmiter @ 07/22/2008 11:00:13 PM

    To Keven VT:
    Something is wrong when people comment on an issue like this while ignoring the larger issue of the increasing violence occurring on school grounds. Violence is not always about sexuality but the many cases of rape in the schools or on school property attest to the fact that violence asssociated with sex
    has been committed on school grounds before and it seems that no big issue was made out of it because there was no agenda to fulfill. While the murder of a child is always unfortuanate that should not stop people from asking the question of why this case has been separated out from the other issues of violence in the schools. since there hasn't exaclt been a pattern of gays being killed in schools while there has been a pattern of rape by both teachers and students. That's what my post was referring to with the remark about "bullying" since the idea of separating the case from all other cases of school violence only serves to obscure the issue of children and violence in the schools as it creates the kind of divisiveness that is no doubt very much responsible for the problem of the increase in violence.

  • Posted By: Ihateliars @ 07/22/2008 10:58:07 PM

    Gofor3...shut up and wait for the whole story. This mag rag did not tell anything about the truth.

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