CAPITAL SOURCES

‘Beginning the Conversation’

Fifteen years after the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy was enacted for the U.S. military, Congress is prepping to review the law.

By Jamie Reno | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Jul 21, 2008 | Updated: 9:05  a.m. ET Jul 21, 2008

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  • Posted By: military man iraq @ 07/21/2008 4:48:03 PM

    I'm in the military and I don't think it is right. I have been in Iraq 4 times. Most showers are open bays. It is the same as you saying I could take a shower in the girls shower. Think about it. If you like men or women if you think they are cute you are going to look. Is this fair to any straight male or female. Remember we have rights too.

    • Posted By: KaKeKh @ 06/19/2009 6:38:58 PM

      I respect your service. I was in the Marine Corp for 8 yrs. We fight for all people rights not just those we agree with. One of my best firends is gay and once he told my cousin who had issues with it, "I am not an equal rights gay and you are not my type." Sweetie just like every girl don't want you the same goes for men.

  • Posted By: OnlyCureJGK @ 07/21/2008 9:25:03 PM

    Homosexuals should not be aloud to spend time with children and corrupt there minds. Homosexuality is just as wrong as Murder they are both depraved sick crimes against what is natural.
    Both these crimes fly in the face of what is normal decient human behavior.
    Anyone that supports homosexual activity is a contributor to it.
    Homosexuality is wrong.
    Its is not diversity it is perverisity
    They should be given the mental help they need.
    It is not about left or right wing politics its about right and wrong.
    Homosexuality is wrong and always will be just because you say its not does not mean its true.
    Hate what is bad not the individual only the crime.

    • Posted By: KaKeKh @ 06/19/2009 6:30:09 PM

      How long have you been gay? I don't understand the anger people have concering what 's going on in their bedrooms.

    • Posted By: jperiod @ 07/21/2008 11:10:48 PM

      I've often wondered if a critically wounded homophobe soldier were told that the only medic standing between him and eternity was a gay medic would tell that medic to leave him alone and go home, that he didn't belong there. I can only hope that his answer would be yes, because by the homophobe's own professed beliefs, being true to one's convictions is what, in the end, really matters. If one truly believes in idiotic, homophobic convictions, one should be willing to die for them.

    • Posted By: jperiod @ 07/21/2008 11:01:59 PM

      I've often wondered if a critically injured homophobe soldier wounded in combat were told that the only available medic standing between him and eternity was a gay medic, would that wounded soldier tell the medic to go home, that he didn't belong there. I certainly hope that wounded soldier would be true to his professed views and honor his religious convictions and say "yes". After all. by his/her own professed beliefs, being true to your own convictions is what is truly important.

  • Posted By: Ric86 @ 07/21/2008 6:30:06 PM

    The bible is unequivocal in its condemnation of homosexual behavior. To claim otherwise is a lie. Behavior is always a choice or else a crime. Stop lying to our children to justify your lifestyle. Read the book of Matthew where Jesus defines marriage Ch 19:4-5; where Jesus restates some of the 10 commandments 19:18-19. Marriage is a man and woman, PERIOD. To claim it was ever to be same sex is a lie and a dishonor to one's parents. Read Matthew 15:4 where Jesus defended the death penalty, where not honoring a mother and father deserves death. AIDS did not exist in this country before it was started in the homosexual community, and not for over a year and a half spread among themselves, before they spread it to the rest of this population. Behavior is a choice, you were given free will. To claim otherwise is a lie. But the lies that attractions alone justify behavior continue. They do not and will never. Children are being lied to but the pushers of same-sex behavior do not care about children; they only use them to justify their behavior choices. But pushers never care about children. Matthew 18:6 warns those who use and lie to children. STOP LYING TO OUR CHILDREN!!!

    • Posted By: KaKeKh @ 06/19/2009 6:26:42 PM

      Do not judge, or you too will be judged.( Matthew 7:1) or 'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. (Leviticus 19:18) You are a virgin in the word of God you like me is a sinner. I serve a loving God and just like you gays and lesbians are not mistakes. The only person lying to their children are those who use any reason to fill them with hate. What your mindset does is nurture self hate because if one of your children happen to be gay they will not be able to turn to you and may act out in unhealthy ways, possible harming themsleves or others. I am not saying put down your bible but you may want to also pickup a medical book and take the time to educate yourself and your children. You don't have to agree but being being ignorant and prejudice is not a good look. Tonight before you go to sleep pray for understand and work on your own sins instead of others.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 07/22/2008 2:02:38 PM

      So what. It is equally arguable that god and the bible are both lies.

  • Posted By: MCallegri @ 07/21/2008 3:14:04 PM

    This is all interesting talk. Being a retired military person, I really don't care whether gays and lesbians can serve in the military. Bieng a Navy man, I will say it is very difficult. Of couser quarters are seperated between men and women and rightfully so. Does this mean because of the hormonal factor that there will a furhte division? Why do I ask that you woner? Well I can tell you of two seperate instances on my last ship of illegal sexual activities going on with gays. The first involved a female officer and an enlisted., the second three enlsited males. And yes, all four of those are inlcuded in those booted totals. The second incident had to do with the three males fondeling other men in their sleep in their berthing area. So personally, thought "Dont' ask don't tell" may be flawed, its a matter of control. It's difficutl enough keeping straight men and women apart when you have been out to sea for one month or more without pulling into port. If they can all keep their privates in their pants and complete their jobs, the military will be that much strong for it.

    • Posted By: Tony C. @ 07/21/2008 3:18:27 PM

      OMG! Lock them up, put them on some deserted island somewhere.

      Get real MC. How many men and women sexually harass each other in every segment of society on a daily basis? It is against the law everywhere, so don't single out the military. They are no different from anyone else. There are good and bad everywhere and someone is always going to participate in deeds or activities that they shouldn't. men and women in the military are HUMAN too!

      • Posted By: johnwestpointer @ 07/21/2008 5:55:02 PM

        MC is correct...when the focus is taken off the job by perverted actions, people can get killed. I had a roommate that I found out was homosexual, and turned him in. This is before DADT, and he was rightfully GONE from the service ASAP! There is NO place for this type of activity in the US Military. Why should a small minority overrule the silent majority. Let's put the gays back in the closet and condemn their vulgar behavior.

        • Posted By: KaKeKh @ 06/19/2009 5:59:04 PM

          You turned him because you were not sure of your own sexuality and thought if other people found out they would think you were gay too. You are no more man than the guy you helped kick out the military. It is sad that other have that much control over other people life. Remember what goes around comes around and just like you thought you had the right to turn him in, some day some will feel they have a right that you don't deserve.

        • Posted By: usbear2008 @ 01/09/2009 8:12:10 AM

          That's a real shame, John, do you feel proud of yourself? Evidently. However, if armies since time began have had brave homosexuals in their ranks and leading them as well, I don't see why the U.S. can't. Like Alexander the Great who conquered most of the known world and was lovers most of his life with Hephaistion.

  • Posted By: Ric86 @ 07/22/2008 9:12:44 AM

    Afgan_vet, shrinks do not know everything,; they certainly do not explain everything that common sense and real experiences they never had explain. Behavior is not genetic! That is a bogus bill of goods. People have free will, they are not robots.

    When 1/4 to 1/3 of all pedophilia is committed by a portion of the population that represents only 2-4%, it is clear how much over-represented this abuse is in the homosexual population. The number of homosexuals who reported being abused themselves as children and adolescents is staggering, a far greater rate than in the hetero population. The damage that is done to many as children greatly contributes to this lifestyle.

    Many countless adults change their lifestyle. Look at Anne Heche. It is a behavior, behavior is learned and always a choice. Mankind has free will. Teaching children becomes corrupted when they are abused. Lying to our children is wrong!

    Read what one of the most radical homosexual said, in his own words. He no longer lives that lifestyle.

    -------------------
    When I look back on my life in the gay community, there was always a sense that ???You don???t question your same-sex desires.??? In fact -- it???s rule number one. As soon as you join the club, that???s the first rule. You can go ahead and examine any other thing???s cause, except for homosexuality. It is like a cult.

    Of course, as puberty takes place, the body is full of sexual energy, and already, I???m craving the masculinity, because I obviously need to have it in myself. But at the same time, I don???t want it, because I???m afraid of it. All that makes perfect sense-- and yet the real clincher there, when I look back on it, is this fabricated gay identity [offered by society]. I can remember very clearly when I was 14, a friend of mine coming to me and explaining to me that I was gay. And that???s the problem, right there. If we continue to feed this identity to people, they???ll never solve their problems. It???s like a sugar coating. And it???s really insidious, when you realize that in my work as editor of a gay magazine for young people, I was doing this to teenagers! That???s what made me eventually stop. I had been slowly gaining an understanding about my gay identity, yet I just didn???t want to say anything about that yet, at my job. But then, I would read stories about gay-affirming books going into grade schools, and that???s when I realized that this had to stop.

    (Michael Glatze, A former gay activist, decided at the age of 13 that he
    was gay and eventually founded Young Gay America, a nonprofit
    media outreach project. Through a series of incidents,
    however, Glatze slowly began to realize that he was not gay at
    all but was dealing with fears about his own masculinity. He
    has since rejected his gay identity.)

    Political correctness is the phobia, which all should reject. We need to stop lying to our children!

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 07/23/2008 11:06:19 AM

      Ric,

      As usual you are so far off base it is not even funny.

      Like it or not Homosexuality IS genetic. Science has proven that. And yes people have free will, and there is NOTHING wrong with homosexuality so their following thier biological imperative is exercising free will.

      The LGBT community is actually closer to 8-10% of the human population. And pediphilia is not related to homosexuality. They are separate issues.

      As for Anne Heche, you are confusing bisexuality with homosexuality. And Heche is a very unusual case of a woman who had many additional psychological issues.

      Behaviour is NOT always choice. whne it is simply following biological imperative as opposed to artificial man-made ideas and rules (which include ALL religion). It is you who are lying to the children when you leach them your views.

      As for Glatze, since he has not been examined by independent psychologists, it is very likley that he is self-delusional. He changed his story AFTER his experiencing a very serious health scare and he had a major change in his RELIGIOUS views. Those views were in conflict with his being homosexual so he "changed".

      He is most likely do the exact same thing that the overwheleming majority of homosexuals who "changed" have done. They simply decided that they no longer had the strength or desire to put up with the mindless garbage, hatred and violence that some segments of society subject them to so they either consciously or subconsciously delude themsleves into changing thier biological imperative.

      It is also possible that some of them were not truly homosexual, but bisexual and for the same reason stated above, forced themsleves to have greater attraction for the opposite sex then for their own sex.

      There is a lot of data that shows that the suicide rates among those who "changed" is higher than the either the heteroseuxal or homsexual community. And it is attributed to the overwhelming trauma that they subject themsleves to by denying their biological sexual orientation and instead they try ot "change", which is imposssible.

      • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 07/23/2008 6:24:52 PM

        A correction in my 7th paragaraph. The last line should say that they delude themsleves into THINKING that they can cahnge their biological imperative when in fact all they are doing is living a lie. Their homosexuality is still there. They are just denying it and in both the long and short term. harming themselves in the process.

        • Posted By: WTL=JC @ 02/02/2009 11:16:44 AM

          thank you dr. ghost. who do you think you are anyway?? how do you know what people are really thinking and why? people can change their views ya know. they finally realised what they were doing was wrong and immoral so they changed for the good of themselves. they finally realised that terdfishing wasnt natural. IMAGINE THAT!!! your not god so stop acting like you know everything, and were all greatful for that. if people cant change thier views,as you suggest. then i guess gay rights will never happen.

        • Posted By: johnwestpointer @ 07/26/2008 5:21:57 PM

          If being gay is genetic as you suggest, perhaps we need to find the genetic mutation and destroy all fetuses who have it??!!

          • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 07/27/2008 10:08:52 AM

            Why?

            There is nothing wrong with it. It is no different that being blue-eyed or left-handed.

            I did not say it is a genetic "mutation", just a genetic variable.

            Now if we could find the genetic mutation that causes mindless bigotry and stupidity THAT should be destroyed. Of course that type of mental illness is is not a genetic mutation, IT is a learned choice. In fact it is the only choice in this arguement. The choice to be a mindless bigot.



  • Posted By: jwalk1964 @ 01/12/2009 5:11:43 PM

    I am a disabled retired Army veterran> I was injured dunring the 1980's. It amazes me that this is still an issue. There have always been gay and lesbian individuals who have honorably and many times heroically severed their nation. The sad reality is that this nation touts human rights but we repeated deny one american citizen or another theirs. We Throw the guantlet for libe3rty and freedom then deny it to some of our own. As long as one American suffers the indignanties of bias and prejudice none of America Is Free. Until we AMERICANS are all Free, then none of us are. When you take away the rights of the individual, the group soon follows. FJ Walker Retired Army

  • Posted By: slw11841@yahoo.com @ 01/11/2009 3:01:17 PM

    After serving 24 years in the Army as both and enlisted man and as an officer I am 1000% behing getting rid of "don;t ask don't tell".. It does not make a difference excrept to harm those that are gay or liesban. It should be okay for them to serve proudly in the open -out of the closet- in any branch of service. The Army and all the other branches of service and the senior officers should just get over it period. Major, SLWhite, US Army Reiired

  • Posted By: bdsleepy @ 01/09/2009 9:34:40 PM

    Jlaiz, MOVE to Europe and be happy. Did gay boy ask for a kiss after walking you home?

  • Posted By: jlaiz @ 01/09/2009 2:10:05 PM

    How sad we can not learn from Europeans they have already stepped forward into the 21st Century allowing
    not only gay marriage but all the rights that involves...including inmigration purposes. Look for example in Spain is LEGAL people why can't we learn!!!!???
    Is about time to find a better way to live together in society. BTW i was defended in a night club from a bottle fight by a gay guy who not only stood up for me but also walked me out safely to my car. WHY CANT WE HELP THEM THE SAME? why are we con stupid and conservative? ( I mean ignorants)
    They are humans they have rights too...like black people in the past they were killed and tortured...is about time to change for all of us.
    With love

  • Posted By: the_nana_jackson @ 01/08/2009 2:40:27 PM

    Problem is that some people would avoid military service by claiming to be gay even if they weren't!

  • Posted By: doxie @ 01/08/2009 1:38:47 PM

    Look it is very simple. 1st of all,,,,,Gays & lesbians are human beings. 2nd it is NOT a choice for them, IT IS GENETIC, just like diabetes, twins and the list goes on. Because of the scorn and hatred (yes hatred) of the way they are they had to hide how they were. So for years no one has complained about the guy next to them in the ditches being gay. They have been the military for years. I myself am straight but I know gay people & they would not touch you in any way or harm you in any way. The only problem is society itself with it's fear and hatred of what it can't and or won't understand. No one seems to mention the bisexual. NO only the HOMOSEXUAL. All I see is a human being weather they are African, Chinese, ETC;,,, why can't you? A lot of people claim to be Christians but they show so much hatred and that is NOT thought in the bible. Besides we have NO right to ask a person if he/she is straight, homosexual, or bisexual. That is none of our business.

  • Posted By: What_the @ 01/08/2009 1:33:18 PM

    2012, hurry up and get here...stop this crazy ship!!!

  • Posted By: jejf02 @ 01/08/2009 12:17:22 PM

    Guys this is the big picture. For all mankind stop the persecution that this nation has on GUY MEN. It it simple, the army is said to be a place for macho men. In reality the army is for the brave individual that is willing to fight and give their lives in combat. Why this policy "Don't ask , don't tell" in the first place, No individual has the right to ask any personal questions concerning a persons sexuality. I think that this policy is there to cover all of those Gay higher politicians in the Political chairs. Listen to all of you out there that are from poor to rich. whether you are the following; maintains man, sanitation, teachers, professors, dentist, nurses, doctors, psychologist, senators, judges, cops, fireman, lawyers, and even a simple simple self employed individual that make $4000.00 per year etc. The point is let the gay people walk free into the promise land of freedom of choice. Just as our Amendments states we have the right of religion, speech, and the right to choose our sexuality as well. We are all the same in reality don't we all bleed, hurt, feel, hunger, sleep, love and hate. Dint we all die and turn in to dust. Did God not create men from dust. So that tells me that you and me are the same. Stop hatting GAY men, learn to share your life with us. Put your self in front of the line has a heterosexual individual. How would you like to live in a only GAY World. How would you feel being continuously discriminated and hit and being hated for for sexual preferences. Seat down take a deep breath and visualize how would it be. Lets care and love each other. After all we are all human and live in the same planet called "Earth".

  • Posted By: lola25 @ 01/08/2009 7:56:40 AM

    My honest opinion is that homosexauls pay their taxes just like heterosexauls do. We have to support the government financially, but we are denied our rights to marry and serve in the military. If the government doesn't worry about where the tax dollars are coming from, then why should they restrict our military service just because of our sexaul oreintation. I am sure that they don't have a "Don't ask , don't tell" policy on my gay dollars.Another comment that i noticed is the concern about AIDS. Are people really that ignorant, do they think that all gays are infected. If it is such a concern, why not just require testing for AIDS as part of the requirements for all persons wanting to serve in the military. Afterall, heteros aren't immune to the diease either.

  • Posted By: adale28 @ 01/08/2009 6:24:43 AM

    This is so wrong. I am a christian and against gay marriage but don't ask don't tell is just not right. How can one fight for one's country and be subject to such second class citizens. Please christians let's pray for the gay community and show them love and compassion instead of hostility, that is not biblical.

  • Posted By: sd2nash @ 01/08/2009 4:12:43 AM

    I think the biggest fear is the Aids issue. Don't be ignorant, but educate yourself. I think the boys in the White House have been watching too many Gay Pride exhibitions. There are some people out there that are normal and act appropriately in public. We are Doctors,Nurses,Lawyers and Public Officials. Whats the problem if we can do a better job than most and conduct ourselves appropriately to our peers. There are officials in the Armed Services that abuse their rank to harass women, who might be gay...So consider your Sexual Harassment Policy boys!

  • Posted By: sd2nash @ 01/08/2009 4:03:35 AM

    I think the "Don't ask Don't tell", policy should be abolished. I served in the Armed Forces. The worst thing that is happening in the "Old Boys Club", is SEXUAL HARASSMENT on the HETEROSEXUAL SIDE! While the Senior Master Sergeant got a slap on the wrist, I lost my favorite job. I never flaunted my sexuality on my sleeve. That is something that is private. We too do a good job. It is the Fear from the white house. Hey, Germany has gays in its Forces, so does Netherlands and England.

  • Posted By: dukekid08 @ 01/08/2009 3:30:17 AM

    in response to paul123, you try to make good arguments but you lack to see why this policy is unjust and even counterproductive, the contention is that it makes people feel unequal, the Dont ask dont tell only applies to homosexualis not heterosexuals, the straight people can talk about their sexuality, but the homo/bisexuals cant, its unfair and counterprductive because it opresses people from talking about their own sexuality, stating that it gives someone privacy, therefore its not opressive is a flawed argument, the argument is that by making someone have to stay in the closet you make them feel inferior
    i think that there are less people who are uncomfortable with gays nowadays than who are gay themselves, so the people who are uncomfortable with gays should be discharged, not the gays who come out, the military would end up discharging less people, and unit cohesion woudlnt be a problem because no one in the military woudl have a problem with gays in the military anymore, the bigots should be kicked out, not the ones who live their lives

  • Posted By: dukekid08 @ 01/08/2009 3:28:00 AM

    in response to paul123, you try to make good arguments but you lack to see why this policy is unjust and even counterproductive, the contention is that it makes people feel unequal, the Dont ask dont tell isnt about any kind of sexuality, its just about homo/bisexuality, the straight people can talk about their sexuality, but the homo/bisexuals cant, its unfair and counterprductive because it opresses people from talking about their own sexuality, stating it gives someone privacy, therefore its not opressive is a flawed argument, the argument is that by making someone have to stay in the closet you make them feel inferior, i think that there are less people who should be uncomfortable with gays nowadays than who are gaythemselves, so the people who are uncomfortable with gays should be discharged, not the gays who come out, they would end up discharging less people, and unit cohesion woudlnt be a problem because no one in the military woudl have a problem with gays in the military, the bigots should be kicked out, not the ones who live their lives

  • Posted By: dukekid08 @ 01/08/2009 3:27:12 AM

    in response to paul123, you try to make good arguments but you lack to see why this policy is unjust and even counterproductive, the contention is that it makes people feel unequal, the Dont ask dont tell isnt about any kind of sexuality, its just about homo/bisexuality, the straight people can talk about their sexuality, but the homo/bisexuals cant, its unfair and counterprductive because it opresses people from talking about their own sexuality, stating it gives someone privacy, therefore its not opressive is a flawed argument, the argument is that by making someone have to stay in the closet you make them feel inferior, i think that there are less people who should be uncomfortable with gays nowadays than who are gaythemselves, so the people who are uncomfortable with gays should be discharged, not the gays who come out, they would end up discharging less people, and unit cohesion woudlnt be a problem because no one in the military woudl have a problem with gays in the military, the bigots should be kicked out, not the ones who live their lives

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