PROSTITUTION

A School for Johns

As San Francisco prepares to vote on a bid to legalize prostitution, a closer look at a program designed to focus on buyers, rather than sellers, in the sex trade.

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  • Posted By: n0s4a2 @ 12/21/2008 7:38:00 PM

    In my city there are ads for prostitutes on the Internet and even in the phone book! Is prostitution itself illegal or only streetwalking? I wouldn't want crime to come to my neighborhood associated with street hookers, but why in the world do we criminalized prostitution carried out in private? Is it the Religious Right, again preventing us from doing the rational thing?

  • Posted By: mfenwick @ 12/20/2008 11:59:26 AM

    I have said it before and will say it again: When a young woman can make more money in one night of prostitution than she can working three months at McDonald's which do you think she will choose? All these whiners who talk about exploitation of women never offer women viable alternatives to prostitution. They sit smuggly in their self-rightiousness preaching about the evils of selling sex, yet not one of them would offer a prostitute a better-paying job or if needed, a place to stay and food to eat. Taxing the industry would take money away from the workers and put it ito the hands of useless government bureaucrats. It would hurt the very people it is supposed to help. The best thing to do is for government and meddlesome social groups to leave the industry the hell alone. Prostitution has been around longer than any other industry and has done just fine without government.

  • Posted By: jr3906 @ 12/20/2008 10:36:13 AM

    South Florida has thousands of prostitutes I mean thousands and they advertise on websites as escort services for years without any prosecution from the police. Why? Because just as in the days of Al Capone, the mob pays off someone at city hall and business continues as usual. In South Florida alone prostitution is a billion dollar industry. Don't think for one moment if I see escort services on craigs list and other established websites tthat the cops don't know. Corruption and allows this to persist... I think it is between two consenting adults what they do. I just hate the fact that the agencies get half of the girls money and they did all the work.

  • Posted By: jr3906 @ 12/20/2008 10:31:25 AM

    I am interested in knowing how the editor could publish this story without checking the facts. There is no way 80% of human trafficers could be women and 50% children. That is 130%....duh!

  • Posted By: cowboy2121 @ 12/20/2008 10:21:44 AM

    fact{ i have not only seen the same women arrested for prostitution that were not working for anyone else but themselves but i have personally put some in prison repeatedly for the exact same thing,they had no pimps ,didnt work for a "business" or escort service ,they came from good middle class families and had good childhoods according to their own storys they chose to work in the sex industry because it was easy ,they enjoyed sex ,and they made alot of money.I dont know where the lady got her numbers from but in Ft Worth Texas i have seen prostitutes make 500 to a 1000 dollars a day with an average price of 100 dollars per customer,thats ten customers ,ten hrs 1000 dollars thats 4000 a week .its simple math they know they have what men want and are willing to pay for and they like the money

  • Posted By: cowboy2121 @ 12/20/2008 10:14:27 AM

    Posted By: techresmgt @ 12/20/2008 9:35:38 AMBlah, blah, blah, here we go again. Women are victims, men are criminals. Male bashing must end. If prostitution is illegal, women are as culpable as men. Thinking otherwise is akin to saying those that grow and distribute drugs are 'victims' and the 'users' are criminals. Get a grip on reality, it's great out here.

    i agree 100% with you on this ,what is it women always say? o yes "it takes two to tango" how can they blame one participant and not the other.this is not only clouding the issue it is making it worse ,saying ok lets make it legal to sale sex but illegal to buy it is like saying lets make it leagal to rob someone but illegal to be robbed,sounds stupid but it is no more stupid then blaming the men for paying prostitutes for sex .If there were no prostitutes the men wouldnt be paying them

  • Posted By: cowboy2121 @ 12/20/2008 9:39:19 AM

    i will agree some of the prostitutes working in the united states are underage or forced to work in the sex industry mainly because there is no standard set in the industry as long as it is illegal people(sick ones) will continue to use children as well as prostitutes forced into it for sex but if it were legalized then men wouldnt be goig out finding them on the streets or back alleys or wherever they could be in a controlled environment where they are safe and regulated as far as age and and legal citizenship go . the men are gonna continue to use prostitutes no matter what the government,religion ,or other women say it is the oldest profession for a reason and wont be stopped by any of this the best thing to do would be to legalize it so it can be regulated and made safe for the prostitutes as well as for the men that use them. as far as the comment about germany goes rethinking their decision to legalize it that is completely false i have spent time in germany and not only are they not thinking about making it illegal again they are making more in taxes and other fee's from it to make the country more stable and better to live in

  • Posted By: techresmgt @ 12/20/2008 9:35:38 AM

    Blah, blah, blah, here we go again. Women are victims, men are criminals. Male bashing must end. If prostitution is illegal, women are as culpable as men. Thinking otherwise is akin to saying those that grow and distribute drugs are 'victims' and the 'users' are criminals. Get a grip on reality, it's great out here.

  • Posted By: tlo724 @ 08/28/2008 7:40:14 PM

    By reading the comments here, I think people have gotten off the subject alil bit with all the gay bashing, comparing prositution to marriage and all the "men" bragging about their little play toys they pay tutition and bils for every month. For me, (and I hope for others) is that many many many of these women are seriously in trouble. One women I know said her NOTHER was her pimp. She said she was the darkest of her mothers children so hew mother didnt like her. Another girl was stabbed and pushed from a moving car of a john who was trying to kill her. She is ok by the Grace of God. And when I mean shes ok....... she is physically fine...other then that.....shes not ok at all. Another girl started "hoing" when she was 13 years old. Now all this info I didnt pull out of my nose. I have the rare and special opportunity to work these women as I am a social worker who assists people in retaining employment, education or any other training that will allow employable skills. I attend a court ordered class that these women and men are ordred to attend
    when they are caught for solicitation. I get to see, hear and feel what these women go through. I dont know about anyone else but I couldnt fathom my mom hating me cause of my skin color let alone pimp me out. And Im almost willing to bet within reason the majority of us didnt experience that. If you did experience that or any other abuse I am truly sorry. And before people start blaming the women and men that I see at these classes or judge them (which is NOT your responsibility to do), please become more informed and put yourself in their shoes. Or better yet, put your daughter, sister, brother, wife, friend, mother or anyone you love in the place of that woman who was thrown from the car.

  • Posted By: Pointer @ 08/03/2008 11:57:33 AM

    "A 2007 study by San Francisco psychologist and prostitution expert Melissa Farley found that in places where commercial sex is legal [...] and the Netherlands???illegal prostitution, as well as the number of rapes and assaults against prostitutes, has increased.[..] Both Germany and the Netherlands???country infamous for their red-light districts???are reconsidering their decisions to legalize the practice. This is not true.

  • Posted By: lostinonespot@hotmail.com @ 07/28/2008 7:12:15 PM

    I find it interesting when people say that making prostitution legal will make it harder to stop human trafficking. When the truth is that human trafficking also has been found in the domestic services industry, (sold to people who need cleaning people); the chocolate industry, (sold ot people who need people to pick the cocoa plant); and even the meat industry (sold to people who need people to slaughter the animals for food).
    Are any of these industries illegal? Would making them illegal help find human traffickers?
    If you're going to go after human trafficking, then go after the traffickers!! It's like making all drugs illegal simply because there are people cooking meth in a basement.....

  • Posted By: rustyb3 @ 07/28/2008 7:05:38 PM

    If you look at the 5.7 million dollars that the city has made on the program its not hard to see the motivation behind only punishing half of the law breakers

  • Posted By: imcookielady @ 07/24/2008 3:56:18 PM

    I notice they only talk about the street prostitutes. I have known escorts and girls in massage parlors. A few were forced into it, but a good majority were single moms trying to stay off welfare or college students. I know of at least two college students who graduated without a single loan debt. One is a real estate broker and the other is a paralegal. Neither one regrets her decision to work in the business to better herself!

    • Posted By: markuski @ 07/28/2008 6:49:07 PM

      yea, the only time prostitution should be legal is when you buy a girl a $100.00 diner and then she goes home with you.... now, if you just gave her the $100.00, well, you must be a criminal...

  • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/24/2008 5:35:35 PM

    First gay marriage, now prostitution; what's next California? Legal drugs, murder, and rape? What a toilet bowl you've become.

    • Posted By: ETownCanuck @ 07/26/2008 11:24:49 AM

      Are you seriously trying to equate gay marriage with prostitution, drugs, murder and rape????
      Yes, I can see how allowing two people who love each other, regardless of their gender to have the same legal protections that you yourself enjoy can be equated to murder.

      Pull your head out of your ass....Do you really think that god has nothing better to worry about than who people are screwing? If he were THAT offended by homosexuality don't you think he'd have done something about it way back in the days of the "Caveman" as that is when it first appeared and has been around ever since or would he have even created it in the first place?

      • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/28/2008 6:21:31 PM

        Murder and being gay are both wrong. No one wrong is worse than another. Therefore gays are just as wrong as murderers, liars, thieves, alcoholics, etc. If you don't agree, I don't care. Go join DivineDonald in coming up with your own moral standards. Good luck with that. Eventually, someone or some group is going to push it too far and you're going to say, oops, what was I thinking giving in to all these liberal groups.

    • Posted By: DivineDonald @ 07/28/2008 12:45:33 PM

      To equate murder with gay marriage is a bit sick. You are comparing love to hate and thinking they are equal? I am proud to be a native californian. I prefer to follow the lead of Europe, where they look at prostitution and sex without religious dogma superimposed upon every social concern. Women in Amsterdam are empowered and safe as sex workers. Marijuana is sold over the counter and teen use declined. Sex crimes are rare. Everyone wins, except for the political Bible thumpers who are like their Mideast Muslim counterparts wanting to inject religion into government. You cannot stop sex or wipe out a plant that grows wild all over the world such as pot. I feel that California is a light beacon of sanity and tolerance and higher consciousness and those who don't like it can move back to Kansas or Georgia or wherever intolerance, judgments and hypocricy rule. We are creating a European style of culture without all the Puritan religious crap that has so crippled the thinking of most Americans. Sex is normal and natural and if you don't like sex, you need therapy.

      • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/28/2008 6:18:35 PM

        You're blinded by your liberal California society to the point that it's not worth discussing anything with you. Go back to your hippy lettuce and sex with the ladies or men of the night. Don't call me when your *** falls off.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 5:54:29 PM

      What are you talking about? California has no more "legal drugs" than anywhere else. Are you suggesting that murder and rape are legal in California? Or just that they don't happen anywhere else? Either way, your position is asinine. California is focusing on the well-being of prostitutes and their customers - if that's offensive to you, don't patronize prostitutes. Otherwise, leave well enough alone and let people solve their problems.

      • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/24/2008 6:02:02 PM

        It's offensive to me that one of our states is turning into the slime of the earth. Anything goes. I'm saying they're well on their way to making everything legal. If it is asinine to be disgusted at the lack of morals and ethics they show, then I'm proud to be asinine.

        • Posted By: seti2008 @ 07/24/2008 6:33:56 PM

          Prostitution is already legal in Nevada.

          • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/24/2008 7:14:47 PM

            Been there lately? It's a real joy having people hand porn to you every 10 feet and seeing it all over the street.

            • Posted By: bdhotwheel @ 07/24/2008 7:55:39 PM

              Yeah, and they don't care who they hand it to....could be your 80 year old grandpa or your 8 year old kid! No shame, huh people?

        • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 6:17:56 PM

          I didn't say your moral indignation was asinine - I said your implication that rape and murder were either legal or restricted only to California was asinine. Your moral indignation is just regrettable, but it is certainly your right, just as people preferring to preserve freedom to do things that don't hurt others is their right too.

          • Posted By: Creste @ 07/24/2008 6:34:51 PM

            The comment didn't imply that drugs, murder and rape are legal in California. It asked the question, "What's next?"

            I'm not sure how I feel about legalizing and controlling prostitution, I think that there are advantages and disadvantages to it. So I can't say I'm with you or against you on this, I just think that you misunderstood the original comment.

            • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 6:55:47 PM

              On re-reading the question, yes - I was thrown by its being broken into separate sentences. Appreciate the translation.

  • Posted By: mfenwick @ 07/24/2008 8:30:04 PM

    Oh, good god! These girls make more money in one night in their profession than they would make working three months at McDonald's! It angers me how all this damn social reformers and do-gooders are always whining and crying about what they consider social ills but they never offer any viable alternatives. Also, they paint a sad picture of poor uneducated and half-retarded women as prostitutes when the truth is that most prostitutes are well-educated. Many are still in college and sell their product to help pay expenses. They then graduate from college debt-free. Oh, but don't tell that to all the reformers; they don't want women to be well-off and independent. They want women on welfare and voting Democrat.

    • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/25/2008 12:43:08 PM

      What planet do you live on? I can give anecdotes too. I've NEVER seen ANYTHING like that anywhere I've went to school or lived, and I knew many people who got involved in sex work while in college. In fact, I can't think of one person who did it who actually finished college, had their finances taken care of, had healthy relationships with family or partners and ultimately, who didn't take a mental if not physical beating from the biz.

      I'm sure there are some happy stories of some privilaged prostitute somewhere (gee... bet she's rather privilaged to bein with and has a family with finances too... the ones applauding this stuff and talking about the "good experiences" always seem to be), but let's stop giving out more privilages to those who already have more than enough starting out while everyone else keeps losing theirs.

      I wouldn't be surprised if you were someone who curently enjoys feeling entitled to the sexuality of others if you've got the money and want to use it. Why should we applaud a sense of entitlement like that from the people with the power of the money... you know, the stuff that so many sex workers sell themselves to undesireable entitlement cretins to get?

      • Posted By: mfenwick @ 07/25/2008 7:22:35 PM

        I am currently paying the college expenses of a 19-year-old neighbor who lives two doors down from me. I am serviced twice a week. She wears what I ask her to wear, performs the acts I ask her to perform, and keeps me company for as long as I ask. In return I pay her tuition, books, and rent. There is no exchange of money; she simply hands me the bills, I write a check, and stick it in the mail; simple as that. This girl does not have to flip burgers until 11pm to pay for her college. She has time to study and does not have to worry about bills. Now you tell me, what's wrong with that?

        • Posted By: jdtseattlewa @ 07/28/2008 6:06:52 PM

          Oh baby! you got Karma like a falling piano coming your way. I wouldn't want to be in yer shoes when the piano plays it's last chord!!

        • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/28/2008 12:46:24 PM

          I could write a term paper on what's wrong with your attitude, but I'll start of simple so you can understand. This girl wouldn't be screwing you or doing your sexual biddings unless you gave her money. You are acting entitled to someone else's body as if it were a rental car simply because they are in a lesser position regarding power and finances. The sex industry is an industry of lies where all the people doing the servicing have to act like they're enjoying themselves and are happy with the entitlement losers who are paying them. Otherwise they *wait for this... wait for it* wouldn't get paid. You're exploiting someone and making excuses for why it's a good thing.

          If this girl didnt' have to do this for her books, she wouldn't be. Otherwise she'd just date you. Who else is she "servicing" by the way? Who else are you "helping" get through college, you humanitarian, you? All the condoms in the world don't always protect you or her from some of the nastier things going around when you're up for "servicing" whoever has the money you want this time around.

          I highly suggest that you check out prostitutionresearch.com for a much more realistic insight as to what you're actually promoting. Check out the "laws" link with the 10 Reasons Against Legalized Prostitution. I doubt you'll want to since you're probably just happy to just get "serviced" without looking at a bigger picture that reflects negatively on what you wrongfully feel entitled to, but I really hope you do. I also hope this girl doesn't end up with things a lot more negatively life-altering than a college degree.

    • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/25/2008 12:40:30 PM

      What planet do you live on? I can give anecdotes too. I've NEVER seen ANYTHING like that anywhere I've went to school or lived, and I knew many people who got involved in sex work while in college. In fact, I can't think of one person who did it who actually finished college, had their finances taken care of, had healthy relationships with family or partners and ultimately, who didn't take a mental if not physical beating from the biz.

      I'm sure there are some happy stories of some privilaged prostitute somewhere (gee... bet she's rather privilaged to bein with and has a family with finances too... the ones applauding this stuff and talking about the "good experiences" always seem to be), but let's stop giving out more privilages to those who already have more than enough starting out while everyone else keeps losing theirs.

  • Posted By: crownjules99 @ 07/27/2008 3:38:02 PM

    It's disgusting and ignorant to think that because prostitution is "not going anywhere" that it should be legal and taxed. Hard-core drug use and child pornography are also not "going to go away" but I think any person with even a morsel of morality would never suggest legalizing such practices. It's unfortunate that we live in a society where the only human sexuality that is comfortably discussed in public is pornography. Real human sexuality is mulit-faceted and encompasses not only the body but also the mind and soul. Prostitution whether legal or not degrades both of the parties and involved and undermines the power and sanctity of human sexuality as a whole. When I think of prostitution or drug use, I always think of the commercial from the 80s that states, "No one ever says I want to be a junkie (or a prostitute or a John) when I grow up." Legalizing prostitution would certainly send a particular message out to society....are these societal values that wish to have?? THINK ABOUT IT!!

    • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 07/28/2008 10:13:32 AM

      Actually, many people with quite a bit of morality advocate the decriminalization of drugs. Hard-core drug use is addiction, a disease that should be treated. We don't throw food addicts or alcoholics or cigarette smokers in jail for eating or drinking or smoking too much, why should we throw drug addicts in jail? To many, it seems immoral to NOT decriminalize drug use.

      Whether a person is addicted to alcohol, gambling, tobacco, shopping, drugs, or sex, addiction is stil addiction. All addicts need treatment if they are going to change their thoughts and behaviors. Having to deal with the legal system just makes treating it worse.

      Decriminalizing prostitution and drug abuse would send a message to society that says compulsive behavior can and should be treated. Keeping it illegal and full of stigmas just makes recovery harder.

      Child pornography and child sexual exploitation, along with sexual trafficing of adults, is a whole different issue - it isn't immoral, it is evil. A society that doesn't protect it's children deserves to perish.

  • Posted By: techresmgt @ 07/26/2008 9:30:58 AM

    Here we go again, for the umpteenth time, the sexist feminists claiming that 'women are victims' while 'men are criminals'. With this flawed and gender biased logic, the drug war is a scam. With this logic, marijuana plants, heroin, and meth factories should simply be ignored and police should just go after the 'demand side' of the equation. The whole idea is absurd. Prostitutes KNOW they are breaking the law and do so with impunity and willingly nine times out of ten. Those that are 'forced into prostitution' cannot exist according to feminists because women are strong and independent; capable of running their own lives better than any man. We hear their song every day, ad naseum; 'we are women, hear us whine...er roar'.

    • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 07/28/2008 9:39:30 AM

      If you read the article closely, it puts forth the idea that both women prostitutes AND the men who visit them are victimizied, and also suggests that neither men nor women who engage in prostitution should be viewed as criminals.

      The whole point of the legislation is to stop treating prostitution as a crime for both the prostitutes and the johns, and start getting both the help they need.

      And while feminists may claim that women are strong and independent, NOBODY is claiming any such thing about children forced into prostitution. The link between prostitution and child exploitation is growing stronger, and that is, and should be, a criminal issue.

      And in case you haven't noticed, the drug war IS a scam. As a society we would do better to put our efforts into prevention and treatment, rather than criminalizing the user, and if there were no profits to be made, most drug dealers would get out of the business.



  • Posted By: Gretchen x @ 07/25/2008 4:16:55 AM

    I'm voting for the measure in November. It's all about consenting adults. Nothing in the measure changes anything regarding underage workers or people who are working against their will. That will still be illegal and enforced against. I would like to see consenting adults in private be allowed to carry out their sexual business as they see fit. Furthermore I do not buy Mz Hotaling's view of the sex trade. I'm sorry that she had a bad experience but if she did, she needs therapy for herself to feel better and to learn how to mind her own business. Right now what she's doing is projecting her own rage and sense of having been violated onto every pay-for-play transaction and every poor lonely hard-working man who needs a little relief. I can promise you that John School is not doing anything except teaching them how to not get caught next time. Street-walking is passé in every major city in the world, including San Francisco, but it's not because of Mz Hotaling and her nauseating John School, it's because of the ease with which prostitutes can make dates on the Internet. I'm sorry that Mz Hotaling hates men and their sexual needs so much, but as taxpayers we need to make better choices about where to put these millions of dollars that she has been getting for SAGE. SAGE is utterly and completely and totally ineffective. Even what the local newspaper here prints about it is limited to the press releases that Mz Hotaling writes herself, complete with misleading charts and graphs, making SAGE the hero for reducing streetwalking. It has no oversight and no accountabliity. Believe me, those men at John School get together and teach each other how to use the Internet to get dates with hookers.

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 07/27/2008 4:28:46 PM

      Gretchen you sound like a female pimp..... I wonder will you have your daughter, mom, and grandmom making money for you to help fulfill the needs of men......

  • Posted By: bojack27 @ 07/27/2008 4:22:54 PM

    In an age where sexual irresponsibility is rapant San Fransico is encouraging the pratice of immorality.... with adopting prostitution as a legal .... along with gay marriage..... it is no wonder that the Hispanic population has an increase in HIV..... there is a liberalism that is spreading it's infectious disease throughout the planet and is causing all sorts of problems....

  • Posted By: tkc6644 @ 07/27/2008 11:52:07 AM

    well as the late George Carlin said, "If *** is legal, and selling is legal, then why isnt selling *** legal?"

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