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PROSTITUTION

A School for Johns

As San Francisco prepares to vote on a bid to legalize prostitution, a closer look at a program designed to focus on buyers, rather than sellers, in the sex trade.

By Miyoko Ohtake | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Jul 24, 2008 | Updated: 10:21  a.m. ET Jul 24, 2008

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  • Posted By: tlo724 @ 08/28/2008 7:40:14 PM

    Comment: By reading the comments here, I think people have gotten off the subject alil bit with all the gay bashing, comparing prositution to marriage and all the "men" bragging about their little play toys they pay tutition and bils for every month. For me, (and I hope for others) is that many many many of these women are seriously in trouble. One women I know said her NOTHER was her pimp. She said she was the darkest of her mothers children so hew mother didnt like her. Another girl was stabbed and pushed from a moving car of a john who was trying to kill her. She is ok by the Grace of God. And when I mean shes ok....... she is physically fine...other then that.....shes not ok at all. Another girl started "hoing" when she was 13 years old. Now all this info I didnt pull out of my nose. I have the rare and special opportunity to work these women as I am a social worker who assists people in retaining employment, education or any other training that will allow employable skills. I attend a court ordered class that these women and men are ordred to attend
    when they are caught for solicitation. I get to see, hear and feel what these women go through. I dont know about anyone else but I couldnt fathom my mom hating me cause of my skin color let alone pimp me out. And Im almost willing to bet within reason the majority of us didnt experience that. If you did experience that or any other abuse I am truly sorry. And before people start blaming the women and men that I see at these classes or judge them (which is NOT your responsibility to do), please become more informed and put yourself in their shoes. Or better yet, put your daughter, sister, brother, wife, friend, mother or anyone you love in the place of that woman who was thrown from the car.

  • Posted By: Pointer @ 08/03/2008 11:57:33 AM

    Comment: "A 2007 study by San Francisco psychologist and prostitution expert Melissa Farley found that in places where commercial sex is legal [...] and the Netherlands???illegal prostitution, as well as the number of rapes and assaults against prostitutes, has increased.[..] Both Germany and the Netherlands???country infamous for their red-light districts???are reconsidering their decisions to legalize the practice. This is not true.

  • Posted By: lostinonespot@hotmail.com @ 07/28/2008 7:12:15 PM

    Comment: I find it interesting when people say that making prostitution legal will make it harder to stop human trafficking. When the truth is that human trafficking also has been found in the domestic services industry, (sold to people who need cleaning people); the chocolate industry, (sold ot people who need people to pick the cocoa plant); and even the meat industry (sold to people who need people to slaughter the animals for food).
    Are any of these industries illegal? Would making them illegal help find human traffickers?
    If you're going to go after human trafficking, then go after the traffickers!! It's like making all drugs illegal simply because there are people cooking meth in a basement.....

  • Posted By: rustyb3 @ 07/28/2008 7:05:38 PM

    Comment: If you look at the 5.7 million dollars that the city has made on the program its not hard to see the motivation behind only punishing half of the law breakers

  • Posted By: bojack27 @ 07/27/2008 4:22:54 PM

    Comment: In an age where sexual irresponsibility is rapant San Fransico is encouraging the pratice of immorality.... with adopting prostitution as a legal .... along with gay marriage..... it is no wonder that the Hispanic population has an increase in HIV..... there is a liberalism that is spreading it's infectious disease throughout the planet and is causing all sorts of problems....

  • Posted By: crownjules99 @ 07/27/2008 3:38:02 PM

    Comment: It's disgusting and ignorant to think that because prostitution is "not going anywhere" that it should be legal and taxed. Hard-core drug use and child pornography are also not "going to go away" but I think any person with even a morsel of morality would never suggest legalizing such practices. It's unfortunate that we live in a society where the only human sexuality that is comfortably discussed in public is pornography. Real human sexuality is mulit-faceted and encompasses not only the body but also the mind and soul. Prostitution whether legal or not degrades both of the parties and involved and undermines the power and sanctity of human sexuality as a whole. When I think of prostitution or drug use, I always think of the commercial from the 80s that states, "No one ever says I want to be a junkie (or a prostitute or a John) when I grow up." Legalizing prostitution would certainly send a particular message out to society....are these societal values that wish to have?? THINK ABOUT IT!!

    • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 07/28/2008 10:13:32

      Comment: Actually, many people with quite a bit of morality advocate the decriminalization of drugs. Hard-core drug use is addiction, a disease that should be treated. We don't throw food addicts or alcoholics or cigarette smokers in jail for eating or drinking or smoking too much, why should we throw drug addicts in jail? To many, it seems immoral to NOT decriminalize drug use.

      Whether a person is addicted to alcohol, gambling, tobacco, shopping, drugs, or sex, addiction is stil addiction. All addicts need treatment if they are going to change their thoughts and behaviors. Having to deal with the legal system just makes treating it worse.

      Decriminalizing prostitution and drug abuse would send a message to society that says compulsive behavior can and should be treated. Keeping it illegal and full of stigmas just makes recovery harder.

      Child pornography and child sexual exploitation, along with sexual trafficing of adults, is a whole different issue - it isn't immoral, it is evil. A society that doesn't protect it's children deserves to perish.

      • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/28/2008 15:25:08

        Comment: WELL SAID!

  • Posted By: tkc6644 @ 07/27/2008 11:52:07 AM

    Comment: well as the late George Carlin said, "If *** is legal, and selling is legal, then why isnt selling *** legal?"

  • Posted By: ETownCanuck @ 07/26/2008 11:08:10 AM

    Comment: I love reading this messages, it never ceases to amaze me how incredibly stupid people really are. Did the majority of you actually do any research into the matter or just decide to cram the idea of what you think the world should actually be as pictured in your head to everyone else on here.

    Prostitutes are not going anywhere anytime soon and making it legal where they would be taxed as well have access to medical care can not be a bad thing. And really, to those who know that "one girl" who paid for college working in the sex trade then congratulations, you've met the exception and not the rule.

  • Posted By: techresmgt @ 07/26/2008 9:30:58 AM

    Comment: Here we go again, for the umpteenth time, the sexist feminists claiming that 'women are victims' while 'men are criminals'. With this flawed and gender biased logic, the drug war is a scam. With this logic, marijuana plants, heroin, and meth factories should simply be ignored and police should just go after the 'demand side' of the equation. The whole idea is absurd. Prostitutes KNOW they are breaking the law and do so with impunity and willingly nine times out of ten. Those that are 'forced into prostitution' cannot exist according to feminists because women are strong and independent; capable of running their own lives better than any man. We hear their song every day, ad naseum; 'we are women, hear us whine...er roar'.

    • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 07/28/2008 09:39:30

      Comment: If you read the article closely, it puts forth the idea that both women prostitutes AND the men who visit them are victimizied, and also suggests that neither men nor women who engage in prostitution should be viewed as criminals.

      The whole point of the legislation is to stop treating prostitution as a crime for both the prostitutes and the johns, and start getting both the help they need.

      And while feminists may claim that women are strong and independent, NOBODY is claiming any such thing about children forced into prostitution. The link between prostitution and child exploitation is growing stronger, and that is, and should be, a criminal issue.

      And in case you haven't noticed, the drug war IS a scam. As a society we would do better to put our efforts into prevention and treatment, rather than criminalizing the user, and if there were no profits to be made, most drug dealers would get out of the business.



  • Posted By: Gretchen x @ 07/25/2008 4:16:55 AM

    Comment: I'm voting for the measure in November. It's all about consenting adults. Nothing in the measure changes anything regarding underage workers or people who are working against their will. That will still be illegal and enforced against. I would like to see consenting adults in private be allowed to carry out their sexual business as they see fit. Furthermore I do not buy Mz Hotaling's view of the sex trade. I'm sorry that she had a bad experience but if she did, she needs therapy for herself to feel better and to learn how to mind her own business. Right now what she's doing is projecting her own rage and sense of having been violated onto every pay-for-play transaction and every poor lonely hard-working man who needs a little relief. I can promise you that John School is not doing anything except teaching them how to not get caught next time. Street-walking is passé in every major city in the world, including San Francisco, but it's not because of Mz Hotaling and her nauseating John School, it's because of the ease with which prostitutes can make dates on the Internet. I'm sorry that Mz Hotaling hates men and their sexual needs so much, but as taxpayers we need to make better choices about where to put these millions of dollars that she has been getting for SAGE. SAGE is utterly and completely and totally ineffective. Even what the local newspaper here prints about it is limited to the press releases that Mz Hotaling writes herself, complete with misleading charts and graphs, making SAGE the hero for reducing streetwalking. It has no oversight and no accountabliity. Believe me, those men at John School get together and teach each other how to use the Internet to get dates with hookers.

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 07/27/2008 16:28:46

      Comment: Gretchen you sound like a female pimp..... I wonder will you have your daughter, mom, and grandmom making money for you to help fulfill the needs of men......

  • Posted By: ngy460 @ 07/24/2008 11:39:25 PM

    Comment: when we was young mans ,citywe live in have ho-houses,,but that in late 40's and was racisim then,,colorerd hos only got 50 cent to 2 dollars ,sometimes even a quarter ,while whites got 2 dollar to 5 dollar ,for same work,, they we boys all go korean war and fight ,buharry truman de segregated the military,and then fo some reason the colorerd ho's got pay as much as whites ,dont know what this had to do with military,,but when we comes back ,,the ones who did ,,the houses were all closed down and couldnt find a ho ,anywhreres black or white,,strange ,,stuff.

  • Posted By: mistressmax@mindspring.com @ 07/24/2008 10:04:01 PM

    Comment: The November ballot measure doesn't impede on the ability to stop actual cases of human trafficking. What the measure does is stop the city from applying for federal or state funding to be use to for racial profiling of alleged trafficking victims. This profiling has resulted in arrests and deportations of sex workers, targeting women of Asian descent, under the guise of fighting human trafficking. Persecuting and arresting sex workers does nothing to stop human trafficking. It is a xenophobic act to assume all Asian erotic laborers are all trafficking victims. To date, nobody has been charged with trafficking at the state or federal level.

  • Posted By: mistressmax@mindspring.com @ 07/24/2008 10:02:16 PM

    Comment: FYI, the San Francisco police use the abatement of prostitution laws to arrest women and children who are then trafficed into jail. To date, no one has been charged with trafficking at the state or federal level. The November ballot measure doesn't impede on the ability to stop actual cases of human trafficking. What the measure does is stop the city from applying for federal or state funding to be use to for racial profiling of alleged trafficking victims. This profiling has resulted in arrests and deportations of sex workers, targeting women of Asian descent, under the guise of fighting human trafficking. Persecuting and arresting sex workers does nothing to stop human trafficking. It is a xenophobic act to assume all Asian erotic laborers are all trafficking victims.

  • Posted By: mfenwick @ 07/24/2008 8:30:04 PM

    Comment: Oh, good god! These girls make more money in one night in their profession than they would make working three months at McDonald's! It angers me how all this damn social reformers and do-gooders are always whining and crying about what they consider social ills but they never offer any viable alternatives. Also, they paint a sad picture of poor uneducated and half-retarded women as prostitutes when the truth is that most prostitutes are well-educated. Many are still in college and sell their product to help pay expenses. They then graduate from college debt-free. Oh, but don't tell that to all the reformers; they don't want women to be well-off and independent. They want women on welfare and voting Democrat.

    • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/25/2008 12:43:08

      Comment: What planet do you live on? I can give anecdotes too. I've NEVER seen ANYTHING like that anywhere I've went to school or lived, and I knew many people who got involved in sex work while in college. In fact, I can't think of one person who did it who actually finished college, had their finances taken care of, had healthy relationships with family or partners and ultimately, who didn't take a mental if not physical beating from the biz.

      I'm sure there are some happy stories of some privilaged prostitute somewhere (gee... bet she's rather privilaged to bein with and has a family with finances too... the ones applauding this stuff and talking about the "good experiences" always seem to be), but let's stop giving out more privilages to those who already have more than enough starting out while everyone else keeps losing theirs.

      I wouldn't be surprised if you were someone who curently enjoys feeling entitled to the sexuality of others if you've got the money and want to use it. Why should we applaud a sense of entitlement like that from the people with the power of the money... you know, the stuff that so many sex workers sell themselves to undesireable entitlement cretins to get?

      • Posted By: mfenwick @ 07/25/2008 19:22:35

        Comment: I am currently paying the college expenses of a 19-year-old neighbor who lives two doors down from me. I am serviced twice a week. She wears what I ask her to wear, performs the acts I ask her to perform, and keeps me company for as long as I ask. In return I pay her tuition, books, and rent. There is no exchange of money; she simply hands me the bills, I write a check, and stick it in the mail; simple as that. This girl does not have to flip burgers until 11pm to pay for her college. She has time to study and does not have to worry about bills. Now you tell me, what's wrong with that?

        • Posted By: jdtseattlewa @ 07/28/2008 18:06:52

          Comment: Oh baby! you got Karma like a falling piano coming your way. I wouldn't want to be in yer shoes when the piano plays it's last chord!!

        • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/28/2008 12:46:24

          Comment: I could write a term paper on what's wrong with your attitude, but I'll start of simple so you can understand. This girl wouldn't be screwing you or doing your sexual biddings unless you gave her money. You are acting entitled to someone else's body as if it were a rental car simply because they are in a lesser position regarding power and finances. The sex industry is an industry of lies where all the people doing the servicing have to act like they're enjoying themselves and are happy with the entitlement losers who are paying them. Otherwise they *wait for this... wait for it* wouldn't get paid. You're exploiting someone and making excuses for why it's a good thing.

          If this girl didnt' have to do this for her books, she wouldn't be. Otherwise she'd just date you. Who else is she "servicing" by the way? Who else are you "helping" get through college, you humanitarian, you? All the condoms in the world don't always protect you or her from some of the nastier things going around when you're up for "servicing" whoever has the money you want this time around.

          I highly suggest that you check out prostitutionresearch.com for a much more realistic insight as to what you're actually promoting. Check out the "laws" link with the 10 Reasons Against Legalized Prostitution. I doubt you'll want to since you're probably just happy to just get "serviced" without looking at a bigger picture that reflects negatively on what you wrongfully feel entitled to, but I really hope you do. I also hope this girl doesn't end up with things a lot more negatively life-altering than a college degree.

          • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/28/2008 15:31:19

            Comment: FREE WILL, IDIOT!

            FREE MARKET EXCHANGE......................THE BARTER SYSTEM!

            NO ONE HAS TO DO ANYTHING IN HIS ARRANGEMENT......................LIKE READING YOUR JUDGEMENTAL POST.....................ANYBODY SHOULD DECIDE WHAT OR WHAT NOT TO DO WITH THEIR OWN BODY...................IT IS CALLED FREEDOM..................AND FIND PEACE WITH IT.................IT IS COMING TO YOUR TOWN SOON (PROBABLY YOUR DAUGHTER)..............LOL!

            • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/29/2008 12:24:46

              Comment: What a totally ignorant and pointless reply. You obviously haven't done much research into the sex industry have you? You obviously don't seem to grasp the complexities of this thing we like to call "free choice." Very few choices that are made are totally free, especially ones dealing with the power dynamics and business ethics (or lack thereof) that the sex industry does. Do a bit more research on the matter and then get back to me with your OMG ALL CAPS COMMENT OF LOL.

              • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/30/2008 18:34:07

                Comment: GET A DICTIONARY AND LOOK UP THE WORDS THAT I USED THAT OBVIOUSLY WERE TOO BIG FOR YOU......................IT IS ALL SELF EXPLANATORY............MAYBE GET HOOKED ON PHONICS!

                THE SEX INDUSTRY "RESEARCH" YOU SPEAK OF MUST HAVE BEEN FROM A CAR WINDOW TALKING TO YOUR MOM IN THE FLORECENT HOT PANTS(2 SIZES TOO SMALL).

                WE AS HUMAN BEING LIKE TO MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS (LIKE THE SEXUAL SCHOLARSHIP GIRL AND HER BENIFACTOR)


                AND AS FAR AS YOUR NOT BEING ABLE TO DEAL W/ MY CAPS LOCK..............DON'T DEAL W/ IT, BUTT-BOY..............THAT WOULD BREAK MY HEART!

                • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/31/2008 12:31:37

                  Comment: I think you've went and confirmed everything I posted about previously. Keep it up. You're doing loads for everyone else's point of views just by sticking to yours in such manners. I'll put it in terms that you can hopefully understand: LOL @ U BUTTBOI NETSPEAK LOL OMGWTFBBQ YAY PWND.

                  I'm sure you'll keep replying with absolutely nothing of substance or insignt to say, as you seem to think that having the last word means U R D WINNR. Go for it, I'll let you "win" with your clumsy last word because you're pointless to keep responding to after this.

            • Posted By: mfenwick @ 07/28/2008 18:14:56

              Comment: Why do you believe one person performing a sexual act upon another person is exploitive? The same thing goes on in a marriage. A wife performs her wifely duties to her man in exchange for what she wants; security, food, children, etc. I give this girl what she wants and she gives me what I want. There is nothing exploitive in that arrangement. Emily and I have a written contract and we both log the days and times she comes over. I also give her copies of the receipts showing that I have paid her bills. In this way we keep one another honest about our dealings with each other. If she refuses to service me at the times and hours written in our contract I'll turn her in for prostitution. At the same time, if I don't live up to my part of the bargain she can turn me in for solicitation. We both know we will both lose if what we are doing is revealed, so there is no temptation to renign on the bargain. She services no one else and I, for obvious financial reasons, do not seek the services of anyone else. It is a win-win situation. We are quite satisfied.

              • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/29/2008 12:34:38

                Comment: And you still (conveniently) avoiding some points while trying to get off-track into problems you seem to see within some marriages or relationships. Let's not pretend that your situation is the same as the other, because it's not. You're still the one holding the power and the control (via your wallet) no matter what sort of agreement you say you have regarding her turning you in for solicitation. After all... we all know how much power those prostitutes have! Everyone just takes them seriously in society and cares for their wellbeing and their complaints. Do you sense the *eyeroll*?

                Before you start excusing an entire industry built on the backs of the mostly disadvantaged and desperate simply because you wish to benefit from it, think a bit more beyond your own entitlement ridden sexual appetite. You probably didn't check out that site/study either, didja? Probably not interested in anything much besides your own anecdata that lets you justify using others like you are.

                Again, from what you've written, Emily wouldn't be servicing you and your every entitlment-ridden whim (the "I get the sex I want ,with who I want it, how I want it, when I want it" attitude) if she had what she needed... money. Doesn't sound like a completely free choice to me, and if it's not a 100% free choice, it's not as peachy and victim-free of a social issue as you're trying to convince yourself and everyone else that it is.

                • Posted By: mfenwick @ 07/29/2008 22:19:02

                  Comment: Oh, come now! You're confusing sexual fulfillment with love. There is no such thing as love. Every relationship is based on what we can get from another person. You choose your wife or husband based on what that person can give you. If after you marry, that person no longer gives you what you want(sex, money, feeling of importance, security, etc.) trouble begins. You choose your job based on what the company can do for you. When the company does you wrong, you look for another job; you don't stick around hoping things will get better; only a fool does that. My and Emily's relationship is purely economical just like all relationships. Even when she graduates, assuming we continue our present relationship, I will help her find work and pay for her beginning expenses. Our contract, of course, is not legally binding, but it serves to spell out just what we expect from each other. The only way it can be broken is if we both agree to
                  be let out of it. I can always find another "Emily" and she can always find another John" just like when all relationships run their course and finally die out.

                  • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/30/2008 12:30:17

                    Comment: Also, there is no such thing as love? That's a very bold blanket of a statement to make no matter what you're speaking about. Sounds like something a person who has some serious mental issues might say. You might feel that way, but the majority of humans don't operate without the concept of love in any way in their lives. I'm sure there's a psychological term for that kind of detatched and impersonal way of viewing others and the world.

                  • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/30/2008 12:28:15

                    Comment: At least you're admitting that you view people as expendable, replaceable things to use for your own personal gains (at least the ones you want to pay to screw are). Wow. You're really not making a great case as to why what you're involved in is something that should be embraced and promoted legally in society. You seem to be doing an awful lot of justifying for someone who really believes that what they're doing is 100% A-OK morally and socially.

                    • Posted By: mfenwick @ 07/31/2008 18:38:01

                      Comment: I pay little attention to what is or is not illegal; I simply do as I please, only discreetly. You can't live a good life always worrying about whether or not you're going to get caught doing something society disapproves of. I tend to ignore government because the government does not own me; I do what I damn-well please, when I please, and as much as I please. The government has no business telling people who they can and cannot have sex with. What two(or more) people do behind closed doors is no one's affair.

        • Posted By: ngy460 @ 07/26/2008 00:02:52

          Comment: y'all don think she only be sevicing y'all, one of these days she gonna bring y'all a nice dose of the c**p
          hopes not ,but thats what they allus do.

          • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/28/2008 15:32:46

            Comment: READ THE STORY, KNUCKLE HEAD.....................IT IS ABOUT HOW THE LAW WILL FORCE THE INFECTED OUT OF THE BUSINESS.............YEA, I KNOW.................THE BIBLE IS ALL YOU HAVE TO READ!

    • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/25/2008 12:40:30

      Comment: What planet do you live on? I can give anecdotes too. I've NEVER seen ANYTHING like that anywhere I've went to school or lived, and I knew many people who got involved in sex work while in college. In fact, I can't think of one person who did it who actually finished college, had their finances taken care of, had healthy relationships with family or partners and ultimately, who didn't take a mental if not physical beating from the biz.

      I'm sure there are some happy stories of some privilaged prostitute somewhere (gee... bet she's rather privilaged to bein with and has a family with finances too... the ones applauding this stuff and talking about the "good experiences" always seem to be), but let's stop giving out more privilages to those who already have more than enough starting out while everyone else keeps losing theirs.

      • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/28/2008 15:35:23

        Comment: WHAT PLANET DO YOU LIVE ON.................IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO REPRINT YOUR POST ENDLESSLY ON THAT PLANET.......................PLANET JUDGEMENTAL..................... I ASSUME!

        YOU DON'T LIKE IT....................THEN DON'T DO IT(RETARD)!

    • Posted By: ngy460 @ 07/24/2008 21:07:24

      Comment: thas right ! all the ho's votes rpublican as theys independanrt got em a fine trade ,amd makes they own way purfect example of free enterprise and the ho's are the entapruners, right on!

      • Posted By: mfenwick @ 07/25/2008 08:21:36

        Comment: Have you been reading Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer? Stop that ignorant, jive language and write in English.

  • Posted By: ngy460 @ 07/24/2008 8:23:58 PM

    Comment: safer johns an safer ho's the way to go ,i'se suspose,,lookin at nevada ,all it do gonna make the prices go up.,and put all the pimps outa work. who gonna buy them they lincolns and cadilacs? fine clothes ,jewels and wine ? keep the pimps employed and keep em from doin other bad crimes.

  • Posted By: bdhotwheel @ 07/24/2008 7:54:10 PM

    Comment: Prostitution, one of the few jobs that the employees need not perform a drug test to get hired or pay taxes! That's The American Way! San Fran should burn down for the s$@ they are pulling!

  • Posted By: jdemo02 @ 07/24/2008 7:52:09 PM

    Comment: I just cannot stand this garbage about Countries and states having "second thoughts". I may have second thoughts about getting drunk, but a political body knows what it is doing. Marijuana practically legal in california and prostitution would be the nail in the coffin. Florida has to do all this **** illegally. no one there talks about legalizing anything. Plus, our state can't actually agree on a single political vote.

  • Posted By: bdhotwheel @ 07/24/2008 7:51:55 PM

    Comment: Can we now legalize weed? WTF? San Francisco is going bonkers trying to pass stupid immoral laws into the mainstream. What a shame becasue the city is beautiful, but the people are something left to be desired.

    • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/28/2008 19:43:04

      Comment: PLEASE DO LEGALIZE POT.................BIGGEST HIDDEN CASH COW THE U.S.A. HAS .............THE TAXES GAINED AND REVENUE NOT LOST TO THE IDIOTIC WAR ON DRUGS WOULD PROBABLY FIX THE NATIONAL DEBT......................IF WE DON'T MEXICO WILL.................IT WOULD BE A MAJOR BOON TO THEIR ECONOMY!................BETTER US THAN THEM!

  • Posted By: jdemo02 @ 07/24/2008 7:48:45 PM

    Comment: i

  • Posted By: speckelbelly @ 07/24/2008 7:30:53 PM

    Comment: ITS BEEN AROUND SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME! prostitution SHOULD BE REGULATED. JUST LIKE ANY OTHER BUSINESS! THEN THE PIMPS WOULD BE IN PRISON FOR HURTING THE WOMEN! THE GOVERNMENT WOULD GET TAXES! THE JOHNS WOULD GET SOME RELIEF!

  • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 5:51:53 PM

    Comment: It seems that most of the opposition to legalized prostitution goes hand in hand with opposition to reducing the dangers of prostitution and other supposedly "immoral" activities - needle-exchange programs, sex-ed, distribution of condoms, etc. The attitude seems to be "if people do things I personally oppose, they should suffer horrible diseases and death because they have it coming." Interestingly, these also seem to be the same people who claim they subscribe to compassionate worldviews. The irony would be funny if it weren't so tragic. Of COURSE we need legalized prostitution! Safer for women, safer for men - government should be looking out for the well-being of people's BODIES, not their "souls."

    • Posted By: irateredhead2008 @ 07/25/2008 12:46:37

      Comment: actually, legalized prostitution has little to do with improving women's safety and health and everything to do with providing johns a steady stream of new, young, disease-free bodies to feel entitled to. If it were honestly about improving conditions for sex workers, they'd be testing the HELL out of every john and giving THEM the 3rd degree. What happens when a prostitute gets infected since no one tests the "customers"? Where is she to go then? Oh yeah. Women's Health Advocates my ass.

    • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/24/2008 18:07:59

      Comment: "Safer for women, safer for men" is a lovely thought. What about kids? That's a great conversation to have with your 15 year old daughter. "Oh, it doesn't matter if you can't get good grades. You don't need to be smart to work on your back."

      The attitude of letting people do whatever the heck they darn well please and find ways and arguments to support why it's right has made our country soft and pathetic. Every little group in the country thinks they are entitled to special or equal rights for their little group. It's getting out of hand.

      • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/28/2008 15:45:44

        Comment: IT IS IDIOTS WHO JUST HAPPEN TO HAVE THE EQUIPMENT TO BREED AND REPRODUCE BUT ARE TOO OBTUSE TO BE ABLE TO BRING THEMSELVE TO MENTION RESPONSIBLITY TO THEIR PROGENY THAT MAKE IT SO SOCIETY IS NOW RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR LACK OF SPINE!

        GROW UP MOMMY! CHANCES ARE YOUR DAUGHTER IS FAR MORE MENTALLY EQUIPED TO DEAL WITH THIS THAN YOUR PEA BRAIN IS!

        • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/28/2008 18:25:01

          Comment: I teach my kids good morals. It's not my fault our country can't help out in the school system. Rather, it is the liberal immoral, worthless bums pushing their agendas into the classrooms and politics. And we wonder why our country has become so soft and weak?

          You don't have kids, do you? You just have a liberal mindset and have never felt the fear when watching your country turn into a red-light district.

          • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/28/2008 18:38:04

            Comment: NOT THE JOB OF THE SCHOOLS TO TEACH YOUR KIDS ANYTHING THAT ISN'T EXACTLY ON THE SCHOOL CURRICULUM....................IF THEY TRIED, YOU OR SOMEONE LIKE YOU WOULD SUE (THEM WHICH EQUALS US TAXPAYERS)!

            IF I HAD KIDS, AND I HAD ISSUES WITH THEIR UPBRINGING.................I WOULD HOME SCHOOL!

            AND THE COUNTRY TURNING INTO A RED LIGHT DISTRICT IS HYPERBOLE (EXAGERATING TO THE WORST CASE SENERIO) ..............PEOPLE STOP TAKING YOU SERIOUSLY WHEN YOU DO THAT, IT MEANS YOU CAN'T MAKE A TRUE ARGUEMENT WITHOUT EXTREMING OUT!

            • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/29/2008 13:43:14

              Comment: I'm not asking the schools to teach my kids anything outside the curriculum. The schools just let the ideas slip out in the classroom, like accepting gays and every other little liberal piece of garbage they want to spew out. Homeschool, yeah, good for you. Are you going to quit your job and take care of that? Get real. It's not that easy. I don't blame schools for anything. I blame some of the people in the schools for pushing liberal agendas. The same can be said about local governments now. Legalized prostitution and gay marriage should be put to state-wide or county-wide votes, not pushed through the court systems.

              How is it extreme to think legalizing prostitution makes way for a red light district? That's exactly what happens!!!

              • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/31/2008 11:37:52

                Comment: watching your country turn into a red-light district

                THATS HOW GETTING TO THE REAL POINT YOU WERE MAKING IS EXTREMISM....................THE COUNTRY ...................WILL NEVER BE A RED LIGHT DISTRICT.......................YOU NEVER THOUGHT IT WOULD WHEN YOU TYPED IT.....................YOU DID IT TO MAKE YOUR POINT STRONGER WHEN IN FACT IT IS WEAK.......................BUT THEN ...........................A FEW (RELATIVELY)TINY RED LIGHT DISTRICTS IN THE COUNTRY........................OR MORE TO THE POINT..........................IN S/F OR NEVADA ................................BUT JUST IN THOSE TWO PLACES.........................NOT AS MUCH .............EMOTIONAL STRENGTH...............THEREFORE HYPERBOLE IS THE RECIPE FOR ARGUEMENTS SHORT ON REAL "BITE"

            • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 07/28/2008 18:43:12

              Comment: IF YOU LIVE IN 'FRICO, YOU COULDN'T PICK A WORSE AREA IN THE U.S. TO BRING THEM UP................UNLESS OF COURSE YOU ARE UP FOR GAY PRIDE PARADES, MAYORS THAT CIRCUMVENT THE LAW, AND STREET BUMS THAT ARE GIVEN A STIPEN AS A REWARD FOR NOT ADAPTING TO THE LAWS AND SOCIETY AS WELL AS KEEPING THE HARD DRUG CULTURE ALIVE!

      • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 18:24:30

        Comment: "Safer for women, safer for men" is a lovely thought. What about kids?

        Heh - I figured we had to get to "but what about the chiiiiiildren?!?" sooner or later. My (very pretty) daughter is only 7, but I encourage her to get good grades because, legal or not, prostitution is not a viable career path for one's entire adulthood. Obviously I'd prefer that she not become a sex worker, but that's ultimately her decision and, if she does make that choice, I would prefer that she not pay with her life.

        As for "letting people do whatever they please," as long as no one is hurt by it, what exactly is the harm? And are you seriously blaming the prevalence of special interest groups (like, saaay, Focus on the Family?) on legalized prostitution? Or just social liberalism in general? Are you really saying there's a causal connection between legalizing prostitution and the agitation of "every little group" for "special or equal rights?" It looks like you just have great bitterness toward anyone who's having more fun than you, and anyone who feels they're being mistreated, but that's hardly the stuff of cause and effect.

        • Posted By: ngy460 @ 07/30/2008 01:08:40

          Comment: y'all gonna let yo 7 yr old daughter be a ho if she be wants to? man that crazy ,an illegal too.

        • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/24/2008 19:12:51

          Comment: It's not about having fun; it's about the common population being "required" to agree and support lifestyles and special interests. It's about the lowering of standards as a society that bothers me. I'm not a hateful person and I don't mistreat anyone based on their lifestyle. But when things like gay marriage and prostitution start becoming state legislated principles, it bothers me.

          I understand the feeling of "if it doesn't concern me, don't worry about it." But it does concern me even though I'm not into it. It concerns me because of the type of people that will be running around the neighborhoods if more things become legalized and accepted. Will there be more drugs and pimps running around? Will the prostitution be limited to certain areas or can hookers hang out and do their thing anywhere?

          I don't have any bitterness towards people having fun. I like to drink, gamble, and go to Vegas as much as anyone. I don't, however, like all the *** being thrown in your face on the streets. It's horrible for a child to see that, regardless of what you raise them to think.

          • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 19:21:44

            Comment: "It's not about having fun; it's about the common population being "required" to agree and support lifestyles and special interests."

            Who says you have to "agree and support" anything? I don't agree with a lot of practices, let alone support them, but I DO agree that they're the business of the people practicing them. As long as they're not being forced upon my kids (see: creationism in the classroom, non-ed sex ed, etc.), I fully support the freedom of those whose views or lifestyles differ from my own. As for the rest of your arguments, they're purely speculative - "the types of people who will be running around..." you don't know that! You assume that when these practices are "regulated," there will actually be no regulation. Also, when you speak of "standards" being "lowered," you're only talking about YOUR perception of up and down. That can bother you, sure - I've felt our standards were plummeting ever since politics and religion became entangled, but I suspect my up and down are about the opposite of yours. Only thing is, I recognize it's all a matter of opinion, and you don't seem to.

  • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/24/2008 5:35:35 PM

    Comment: First gay marriage, now prostitution; what's next California? Legal drugs, murder, and rape? What a toilet bowl you've become.

    • Posted By: DivineDonald @ 07/28/2008 12:45:33

      Comment: To equate murder with gay marriage is a bit sick. You are comparing love to hate and thinking they are equal? I am proud to be a native californian. I prefer to follow the lead of Europe, where they look at prostitution and sex without religious dogma superimposed upon every social concern. Women in Amsterdam are empowered and safe as sex workers. Marijuana is sold over the counter and teen use declined. Sex crimes are rare. Everyone wins, except for the political Bible thumpers who are like their Mideast Muslim counterparts wanting to inject religion into government. You cannot stop sex or wipe out a plant that grows wild all over the world such as pot. I feel that California is a light beacon of sanity and tolerance and higher consciousness and those who don't like it can move back to Kansas or Georgia or wherever intolerance, judgments and hypocricy rule. We are creating a European style of culture without all the Puritan religious crap that has so crippled the thinking of most Americans. Sex is normal and natural and if you don't like sex, you need therapy.

      • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/28/2008 18:18:35

        Comment: You're blinded by your liberal California society to the point that it's not worth discussing anything with you. Go back to your hippy lettuce and sex with the ladies or men of the night. Don't call me when your *** falls off.

    • Posted By: ETownCanuck @ 07/26/2008 11:24:49

      Comment: Are you seriously trying to equate gay marriage with prostitution, drugs, murder and rape????
      Yes, I can see how allowing two people who love each other, regardless of their gender to have the same legal protections that you yourself enjoy can be equated to murder.

      Pull your head out of your ass....Do you really think that god has nothing better to worry about than who people are screwing? If he were THAT offended by homosexuality don't you think he'd have done something about it way back in the days of the "Caveman" as that is when it first appeared and has been around ever since or would he have even created it in the first place?

      • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/28/2008 18:21:31

        Comment: Murder and being gay are both wrong. No one wrong is worse than another. Therefore gays are just as wrong as murderers, liars, thieves, alcoholics, etc. If you don't agree, I don't care. Go join DivineDonald in coming up with your own moral standards. Good luck with that. Eventually, someone or some group is going to push it too far and you're going to say, oops, what was I thinking giving in to all these liberal groups.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 17:54:29

      Comment: What are you talking about? California has no more "legal drugs" than anywhere else. Are you suggesting that murder and rape are legal in California? Or just that they don't happen anywhere else? Either way, your position is asinine. California is focusing on the well-being of prostitutes and their customers - if that's offensive to you, don't patronize prostitutes. Otherwise, leave well enough alone and let people solve their problems.

      • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/24/2008 18:02:02

        Comment: It's offensive to me that one of our states is turning into the slime of the earth. Anything goes. I'm saying they're well on their way to making everything legal. If it is asinine to be disgusted at the lack of morals and ethics they show, then I'm proud to be asinine.

        • Posted By: seti2008 @ 07/24/2008 18:33:56

          Comment: Prostitution is already legal in Nevada.

          • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/24/2008 19:14:47

            Comment: Been there lately? It's a real joy having people hand porn to you every 10 feet and seeing it all over the street.

            • Posted By: bdhotwheel @ 07/24/2008 19:55:39

              Comment: Yeah, and they don't care who they hand it to....could be your 80 year old grandpa or your 8 year old kid! No shame, huh people?

        • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 18:17:56

          Comment: I didn't say your moral indignation was asinine - I said your implication that rape and murder were either legal or restricted only to California was asinine. Your moral indignation is just regrettable, but it is certainly your right, just as people preferring to preserve freedom to do things that don't hurt others is their right too.

          • Posted By: Creste @ 07/24/2008 18:34:51

            Comment: The comment didn't imply that drugs, murder and rape are legal in California. It asked the question, "What's next?"

            I'm not sure how I feel about legalizing and controlling prostitution, I think that there are advantages and disadvantages to it. So I can't say I'm with you or against you on this, I just think that you misunderstood the original comment.

            • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 18:55:47

              Comment: On re-reading the question, yes - I was thrown by its being broken into separate sentences. Appreciate the translation.

  • Posted By: Cavallino_Rapante @ 07/24/2008 5:31:46 PM

    Comment: I'm not understanding how this can possibly succeed. Many American men are desperately lonely and undersexed - unless the program can arrange social dates for these men that do NOT require the outlay of any funds, then the program is doomed to failure.

    • Posted By: harperc @ 07/24/2008 17:43:31

      Comment: What about American women? How many women pick up young boys off the streets when they get lonely? I haven't heard of that happening very often. Maybe it's more justifiable when a man does it. I guess women just are taught from a young age to supress sexual urges while men are taught to give in to them.

      • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 07/25/2008 16:34:40

        Comment: Most women have it a fair bit easier. If most women wants to have their sexual needs met, due to men being "horn dogs", all they have to do is "put out feeler" and all manners of men will beat a path to their doors (that is being quite a bit sarcastic but it does have some reality to it.)

        As for whether prositution should be legalized, I am not sure. As long as the women are being protected and their rights are being ensured. I am in favor of it. As for the question of the johns being tested, it really is up to the prostitute to demand that condoms are being used.

  • Posted By: seti2008 @ 07/24/2008 4:37:42 PM

    Comment: Prostitutes are all over San Francisco, every neighborhood. The cops could spend all their time just going after them. I agree with legalization and control. The prostitutes would have to undergo yearly physicals, including STD testing, be given safe sex educations, and be taxed.

  • Posted By: coolrepublica @ 07/24/2008 4:05:39 PM

    Comment: can a one day seminar reform johns? The answer is no. If a wife and kids can't get them to stay away from prostitutes nothing can?

    San Fransisco is going down and they don't even know it yet. They want to be the Amsterdam of America. I say instead of moving Europe to America, everyone that wants those kind of changes should just move to Europe. They can afford it. Good riddance.

  • Posted By: imcookielady @ 07/24/2008 3:56:18 PM

    Comment: I notice they only talk about the street prostitutes. I have known escorts and girls in massage parlors. A few were forced into it, but a good majority were single moms trying to stay off welfare or college students. I know of at least two college students who graduated without a single loan debt. One is a real estate broker and the other is a paralegal. Neither one regrets her decision to work in the business to better herself!

    • Posted By: markuski @ 07/28/2008 18:49:07

      Comment: yea, the only time prostitution should be legal is when you buy a girl a $100.00 diner and then she goes home with you.... now, if you just gave her the $100.00, well, you must be a criminal...

  • Posted By: techresmgt @ 07/24/2008 3:50:16 PM

    Comment: The feminists strike again.

    • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 18:57:11

      Comment: Yeah, ya gotta hate those filthy feminists - trying to make sex safe and available. Ruining everything that's good about this country, starting with the dangerous and exploitative illegal sex trade. Wait - what was your point again?

      • Posted By: justaguy1970 @ 07/24/2008 19:31:24

        Comment: You people have to be kidding right? Did you fail to notice that contries and states that have legalized prositituion are having second thoughts because it is not working to try and make sex workers happier, safer and more fulfilled? And all this 'let people do what they want if it's not hurting anyone" crap is the greatest cop out for having no moral philosophy of any kind that all you bong hitting, psuedo compassionate, closet elitists, regurgitate each time your hypocracy is rubbed the wrong way by someone elses. You have no more compassion for the unfortunate sex workers than you do for right wing fundamentalists- its just your brand of self aggrnadizement to prentend you do. So please come down off your two faced moral high horse and just say it- I am going to take the opposite argument and look down my long nose at anyone who espouses morals because I have no moral compass of my own.

        • Posted By: Dave in NM @ 07/24/2008 19:43:46

          Comment: Wooow - amazing how you know every thought and every feeling in the deepest portions of the souls of so many millions of humans. Like the idea that using actual harm as a basis for behavioral standards is "having no moral philosophy of any kind." Good thing you ignore everything people say, 'cause if you didn't, you might be distracted from your preconceptions and prejudices. Now ignore this: your stance is less moral than mine. Just because you drink the right-wing kool-aid doesn't mean you have any grasp of what behavioral standards should be. Substituting dogma for social policy is the corrosive force that's put this country in the tailspin it's in, no matter how gratuitously insultingly you make your point. I have to laugh at your failure to recognize how clearly your divorcing harm from morality tips your hand.

 
 
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