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OLYMPICS

China’s Agony of Defeat

It's impossible to understand what the Games mean to the Chinese without understanding their history of humiliation.

By Orville Schell | NEWSWEEK
Published Jul 26, 2008
From the magazine issue dated Aug 4, 2008

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  • Posted By: TamagotchiChick @ 10/06/2008 6:14:15 AM

    Comment: Taiwan is clearly not an independent country. There is no Republic of Taiwan. But it is called Republic of China instead. History said that civil war happened between Kuomintang the nationalist and the communist and ended up with the defeat of Kuomintang in 1949, and they were forced to retreat to the south and since then they separated themselves from the mainland. Don't forget that the Republic of China itself was established after the fall of the last Dynasty in China. Taiwan's history has a very tight connection with the mainland. That is something that cannot be denied. Taiwan will remain as a sensitive domestic issue for mainland government to solve. I am very optimistic that reunification of both can happen, when both sides acknowledge their shared past.

  • Posted By: Pianoforte @ 10/02/2008 11:12:22 AM

    Comment: It is useless to argue the issue about Taiwan's independence. Take a look around the world, and you will never fail to see how many country admit Taiwan's independence from China. Furthermore, see what the United Nation and the United State's conclusion about Taiwan. China is no longer a weak country in this world as it was. In fact, at least economically, without the support of China mainland, Taiwan will turn out to be an isolated island only. Think about it.

  • Posted By: Taiwan_Go @ 09/12/2008 8:11:29 PM

    Comment: Your definition to "domestic" issues in China is too ridiculous. I couldn't help but luaghing at your point of " domestic "issues-Tibet, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. TAIWAN is IN your list? How come? One thing I'd like to clear is that Taiwan is an independent country. Taiwan is NOT a province of China. Taiwanese is belong to Taiwan. We were born in Taiwan and we will die as a TAIWANESE. Taiwanese have our own cultures, languages, president, political system, education system, identity. All of them are totally different from China. From here we can see that you probably failed your geography and history class. So, I feel sorry to your history teacher. That's right I'm a Taiwanese. And I'm proud to be a Taiwanese. And most importantly, Taiwanese have Taiwanese identity. "WE ARE NOT FROM CHINA." That' s what I teach you today. Can Orville Schell get all this TRUTH?

    • Posted By: TamagotchiChick @ 10/06/2008 6:16:33 AM

      Comment: Taiwan is clearly not an independent country. There is no Republic of Taiwan. But it is called Republic of China instead. History said that civil war happened between Kuomintang the nationalist and the communist and ended up with the defeat of Kuomintang in 1949, and they were forced to retreat to the south and since then they separated themselves from the mainland. Don't forget that the Republic of China itself was established after the fall of the last Dynasty in China. Taiwan's history has a very tight connection with the mainland. That is something that cannot be denied. Taiwan will remain as a sensitive domestic issue for mainland government to solve. I am very optimistic that reunification of both can happen, when both sides acknowledge their shared past.

  • Posted By: pug_ster @ 08/28/2008 10:19:24 AM

    Comment: This article about 'China's Agony of Defeat' is nothing more than Western Propaganda.

  • Posted By: newsworld @ 08/28/2008 3:16:19 AM

    Comment: Newsweek, your article failed to explain why Chinese all over the world began protesting against bias western media and it has little to do with exposure to PRC propaganda.

    CNN and other western media (e.g. Germany) altered and falsified photos to superimpose their vision of the Tibetan riots; video evidence taken by foreign tourists of Tibetan rioters beating up Han and Muslim Chinese and burning some of them to death were omitted, the looting and destruction of city infrastructures were intentionally swept under the carpet; Ambulances and medics photographed for saving people's lives were reported by the West to be armor vehicles driven by the army ready to commit genocide; police action to restore LAW and ORDER and protect innocent civilians from more harm suddenly became criminal. Articles written by the West claiming of a resurrection of the 'yellow peril' were rampant (UK); it became popular and acceptable to call the Chinese civilization "thugs and goons". New nationally published Cartoons of the Chinese labelled as the return of the 'yellow peril' were similar to WWII depictions of tiny buck-toothed squinted eye Japanese people.

    Westernized Chinese all over the world (Canada, US, UK, Germany, Australia, ...) suddenly realized that their adopted country's trusted media taught to be most reliable and impartial felt totally betrayed. The closet racists were all welcomed in public. All the pillars of good journalism: Thoroughness, Accuracy, Fairness And Transparency were set aside so that the West could indulge in propagating politically-driven age-old Hate, Racism, and Sinophobia. Western romanticizations of theocratic Tibet, blame on China for the Arabs??? prosecution of Africans in Sudan, environmental concerns...anything that???s not right about China somehow was comparably more evil than anything the West has demonstrated it is capable of: genocidal treatment of North and South American aboriginals, America???s direct support of dictatorships against entire populations desiring socialist reform, the industrial revolution, our consumption habits, Friends with the Saudis, the death penalty, racial profiling, police taser deaths, Iraq, Afghanistan mass civilian bombings, Guantanamo Bay, Torture, ...

  • Posted By: newsworld @ 08/28/2008 3:15:57 AM

    Comment: Newsweek, your article failed to explain why Chinese all over the world began protesting against bias western media and it has little to do with exposure to PRC propaganda.

    CNN and other western media (e.g. Germany) altered and falsified photos to superimpose their vision of the Tibetan riots; video evidence taken by foreign tourists of Tibetan rioters beating up Han and Muslim Chinese and burning some of them to death were omitted, the looting and destruction of city infrastructures were intentionally swept under the carpet; Ambulances and medics photographed for saving people's lives were reported by the West to be armor vehicles driven by the army ready to commit genocide; police action to restore LAW and ORDER and protect innocent civilians from more harm suddenly became criminal. Articles written by the West claiming of a resurrection of the 'yellow peril' were rampant (UK); it became popular and acceptable to call the Chinese civilization "thugs and goons". New nationally published Cartoons of the Chinese labelled as the return of the 'yellow peril' were similar to WWII depictions of tiny buck-toothed squinted eye Japanese people.

    Westernized Chinese all over the world (Canada, US, UK, Germany, Australia, ...) suddenly realized that their adopted country's trusted media taught to be most reliable and impartial felt totally betrayed. The closet racists were all welcomed in public. All the pillars of good journalism: Thoroughness, Accuracy, Fairness And Transparency were set aside so that the West could indulge in propagating politically-driven age-old Hate, Racism, and Sinophobia. Western romanticizations of theocratic Tibet, blame on China for the Arabs??? prosecution of Africans in Sudan, environmental concerns...anything that???s not right about China somehow was comparably more evil than anything the West has demonstrated it is capable of: genocidal treatment of North and South American aboriginals, America???s direct support of dictatorships against entire populations desiring socialist reform, the industrial revolution, our consumption habits, Friends with the Saudis, the death penalty, racial profiling, police taser deaths, Iraq, Afghanistan mass civilian bombings, Guantanamo Bay, Torture, ...

  • Posted By: Sonnie @ 08/07/2008 8:12:08 PM

    Comment: It's not humiliation, it's humility ;-)

  • Posted By: superduper @ 08/07/2008 11:58:28 AM

    Comment: From the Onion: "Citing Poor Conditions, China Refuses To Send Delegation To Olympics"

    "When factories have to be shut down for a month beforehand just to clear the air, when automobile traffic is artificially thinned to reduce smog, when thousands of uniformed men have to dredge the river mere days before the regatta, in a city that is supposed to be the pride of a nation and the athletic center of the world for two weeks???disgusting is not too strong a word."

    • Posted By: irenemorningstar @ 08/07/2008 8:06:40 PM

      Comment: One more example Sir: It took Pittsburg a long time to change its dreary steal town image into the current lovely city with its charming waterways. Disney World was nothing but swamp land before its developments....
      Irene from London

    • Posted By: irenemorningstar @ 08/07/2008 8:02:57 PM

      Comment: Superduper, when it comes to Beijing, I do not think your comprehension of this city is that superduper after all. Beijing has not been a "flashy" capital. China's prosperity rests heavily in Shanghai / Xiamen/ Guangzhou. Beijing has been catching up fast however. When Seoul ,Korea was preparing their 1988 Olypmics, similar process needed to be implicated. Once done, the city set a new standard for all its citizens and visitors. It is a irreversible transformation for bettterment of life. If you want to point fingers, just look in some of our U.S. domestic toxic dump sites in New Jersey. What will it take to clean our Garden State up?
      Irene Leung from London

    • Posted By: martialguy @ 08/07/2008 1:19:46 PM

      Comment: If you have to cook for a large family, and all you have is wood stove. Would you rather go hungry to breath fresh air?

      • Posted By: irenemorningstar @ 08/07/2008 7:56:34 PM

        Comment: Think creatively. Do without the wood stove. Eat healthy Salads:)
        China is way too resourceful. I hope you will enjoy the Olympic opening ceremmony. The stadiums are not to be rivaled.
        Irene Leung from London

        • Posted By: martialguy @ 08/07/2008 10:46:28 PM

          Comment: Don't eat an all-salad diet. Not enough calories for... the cold.
          Leaving some of them in the field can be beneficial. With sunlight, they absorb CO2 from the...smog and produce oxygen
          I will enjoy watching this Olympic. The sign of its success is the envy trailing it as shown in this article

  • Posted By: superduper @ 08/07/2008 11:57:38 AM

    Comment: From the Onion: "Citing Poor Conditions, China Refuses To Send Delegation To Olympics"

    "When factories have to be shut down for a month beforehand just to clear the air, when automobile traffic is artificially thinned to reduce smog, when thousands of uniformed men have to dredge the river mere days before the regatta, in a city that is supposed to be the pride of a nation and the athletic center of the world for two weeks???disgusting is not too strong a word."

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 08/07/2008 11:14:50 AM

    Comment: Guess who should have the "inferiority complex" in the following events in history:
    * Germany was defeated by the Allies in WW2
    * The Soviet was defeated in Afganistan
    * The French was defeated by Vietnam in 1954 ( Martin Windrow claimed Dien Bien Phu was "the first time that a non-European colonial independence movement had evolved through all the stages from guerrilla bands to a conventionally organized and equipped army able to defeat a modern Western occupier in pitched battle ) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dien_Bien_Phu)
    * In 1257, 1284, and 1287, the Mongol armies of Kublai Khan were repeatedly defeated by Vietnam

    • Posted By: irenemorningstar @ 08/07/2008 8:09:51 PM

      Comment: Interesting examples. However the four nations over the course of history were way too full of themselves to be able to feel inferiority complex.
      Irene Leung from London

  • Posted By: irenemorningstar @ 08/06/2008 5:29:31 AM

    Comment: The true Olympic sports events' spirits mean to bring harmony amongst all nations. I was deeply saddened and outraged to read the cover story declaring China's driving force was based on "inferiority complex". The article added more uncalled for, biased, slandering insults to China. Britain's infamous smuggling of opium into china to reap high profits in trading started in the early 1800's.Opium had weakened the entire Chinese military and her people when China fought back. China lost the Opium War to Britain in 1842, that was 155 years ago. Under the unfair "Treaty of Nanking", Hong Kong was ceded and a large amount of indemnities was paid. Since then, total of eight Western powers including the United States got into China and sliced up major cities and ports into colonized districts. Mr Schell , I do not think you would imply that all current world class Chinese Atheletes/ Scientists/ Nobel prize winners all needed the so-called "inferiority complex" as a crutch to climb to their pinnacles of success. To use the Olympic slogan "Agony of Defeat" for China before the games started was truly indecent. China's 2007 national economic growth rate reached 10.9%. And its merchandise exports have raised to $1.2 trillion, currently ranked the world's 2nd largest exporter, surpassing the U.S. and only next to Germany. The sleeping giant is awake now. The least Newsweek can do is to pay this nation an ounce of respect.
    Irene Leung
    Sarasota, FL USA

  • Posted By: irenemorningstar @ 08/06/2008 4:09:38 AM

    Comment: Comment by Irene Leung
    Mr Orville Schell, In your article, you mentioned Dr Sun Yut Seen's observation (loosly translated)" Chinese are a heap of loose sand", however this was only HALF of the famous inspriational quote! The complete quote, I am sure you are so familiar with but you selected to delete the other half of the sentence. And that is:" Chinese shines like pearls individually however as a group (sic) due to lack of unity, leadership, the Chinese people as a whole is a heap of loose sand." Growing up with this quote, I focused only on the PEARL word. then bettered myself and China by implementing Western managerial skills and the concept of Western logic to cultivate tens and thousands of people I have touched in China via my business. I demand an aplogy for your purposeful intention to have omitted the second half of this quote and created slandered perceptions to your readers who did not know China the way you do.
    Irene Leung

  • Posted By: irenemorningstar @ 08/06/2008 3:59:53 AM

    Comment: To Orville Schell, you have been a very learned critique of China and are a genuine "old China hand". LIke a grandfather, if your children and grandchildren had been humiliated, wouldn't it be only ethical, humane and sensible to encourage them to wipe away the old shames and metamorphosize into a respectable status just to show the world? Instead, you EXPOSED the family's "Hundred Year Shame" (The precise number of years ought to be more than 170 rather than your 100). You omitted MaCau, which was ceded by the Portugese from Tibet Hong Kong and Taiwan. I am surprised as a historian so keen on China, you rambled on with so many misinformation however so very focused to make your points of "Inferiority Complex". I cannnot comprehend what you attempt to do. To make the mostly not as informed world more leary or China? The cover story plus the article painted yet an ugly picture to China. It is okay, Mr. Orvelle Schell. The Chinese will overcome your sticks and stones. I sincerely find your "insider's snippets" as a historian had not informed the readers with the right materials at the right time. Shame on you.
    Irene Leung, Sarasota, FL

  • Posted By: Vivian Brown @ 08/05/2008 2:20:58 PM

    Comment: I am searching, apparently in vain, for an apology from Newsweek for slamming Robert Novak in The Dignity Index in the August 4 issue. I was sure it went to press before he was diagnosed with a brain tumor and just as sure that an apology would appear the next week. Utterly shameless, Newsweek.

  • Posted By: irenemorningstar @ 08/03/2008 10:57:15 PM

    Comment: by Irene Leung, Sarasota, FL. irenel@post.com

    The true Olympic sports events??? spirits mean to bring harmony amongst all nations. I was deeply saddened and outraged to read the cover story declaring China???s driving force was based on ???inferiority complex???. The article added more uncalled for, biased, slandering insults to China. Britain???s infamous smuggling of opium into china to reap high profits in trading started in the early 1800???s.Opium had weakened the entire Chinese military and her people when China fought back. China lost the Opium War to Britain in 1842, that was 155 years ago. Under the unfair ???Treaty of Nanking???, Hong Kong was ceded and a large amount of indemnities was paid. Since then, total of eight Western powers including the United States got into China and sliced up major cities and ports into colonized districts. Mr Schell , I do not think you would imply that all current world class Chinese Atheletes/ Scientists/ Nobel prize winners all needed the so-called ???inferiority complex??? as a crutch to climb to their pinnacles of success. To use the Olympic slogan "Agony of Defeat" for China before the games started was truly indecent. China???s 2007 national economic growth rate reached 10.9%. And its merchandise exports have raised to $1.2 trillion, currently ranked the world???s 2nd largest exporter, surpassing the U.S. and only next to Germany. The sleeping giant is awake now. The least Newsweek can do is to pay this nation an ounce of respect.

    Irene Leung

    Sarasota, FL USA

    • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/04/2008 8:44:17 PM

      Comment: The Agony of Defeat is not an Olympic slogan Irene. It was the old tag line from ABC's Wild World of Sports. The whole tag was "The Thrill of Victory and the Agony of Defeat", and it was not meant as an insult to the losers of sporting events. It reflected more on the human spirit as being able to dust oneself off and continue, in spite of, either winning or losing. It was reflective of the spirit being greater than the outcome of a mere sporting event.

      For reference, you can see this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinko_Bogataj

      In recent Olympic memories, who could forget Eddie 'the Eagle' Edwards. He had absolutely no chance of "winning" (he was a British ski jumper), yet, he won something far greater, as he continued in spite of everything against him (he won no medals). This is what the author was attempting to get at, at least from what I read, not that China is a 2nd rate nation, as many here have apparently misinterpreted.

      The juxtaposition of an old, out of date, United States sports television program onto and paralleling Chinese history perhaps isn???t such a smart literary device. However, I do not think the author???s intention was malicious, at least to a degree, warranting the hostile and vindictive statements being made within this discussion.

      I do appreciate the points you made about the Unequal Treaties of the mid 1800s (Nanking was the first in a series). Events surrounding those treaties still have an impact on the modern world. One cannot read of their history, without realizing that Shanghai was once the epicenter of global capitalism. The buildings are still standing, but apparently, the memories have long since faded....

      • Posted By: irenemorningstar @ 08/06/2008 3:36:46 AM

        Comment: DWPitts, Thank you for clarigying the origin of the phrase of "The Agony of Defeat". Regardless, China, a nation war torn, ravaged, then divvied up geographically by Western Impererialists in the 1800's, then ffurther plunged into self destruction by The Boxer Rebellion, the warlords, the Japanese's slaughter during WW II and then China's own genicide by the Communist Red Guards, has finally reached the point to have reached and crossed over a very pivotal hurdle with rapid technological growth / with www Internet osmosis that enable extradinarily positive changes to progressive modern thought process individually and in private business sectors to have made so many breakthroughs. Any Chinese national, any overseas Chinsese Diaposa and Chinese support "friends", ought to be extra sensitive about bringing the bloody history. Would anyone i.e."attack" Poland or Armenia, only because is has a long sad history? No of course. If Poland or Armenia were to host the Olympics, would then "inferiority complex" and the "Agony of Defeat" be mentioned? I truly find the angles to aim at the former and the usage of the latter were utterly shockingly cruel and humiliating. How many more millennims would China need to bear these crosses? At the dawn of the 2008 Olympics, I feel that the world ought to be encuarged to take a new look at the reformed China, rather than being fed a whold bunch of sad history and its impact for its people who need to erase and rise above the ashes.
        Sincerely
        Irene Leung, Sarasota. FL

    • Posted By: martialguy @ 08/04/2008 6:54:02 AM

      Comment: The article's author wants to look to history for comfort, but totally ignores the fact of history that China had been a superpower for thousands of years.
      History aside, according to CIA's the World Facts' Book ( https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html), China's export in 2007 was 1.217 trillion, while the USA's export in 2007 was 1.149 trillion

  • Posted By: irenemorningstar @ 08/03/2008 10:55:23 PM

    Comment:
    The true Olympic sports events??? spirits mean to bring harmony amongst all nations. I was deeply saddened and outraged to read the cover story declaring China???s driving force was based on ???inferiority complex???. The article added more uncalled for, biased, slandering insults to China. Britain???s infamous smuggling of opium into china to reap high profits in trading started in the early 1800???s.Opium had weakened the entire Chinese military and her people when China fought back. China lost the Opium War to Britain in 1842, that was 155 years ago. Under the unfair ???Treaty of Nanking???, Hong Kong was ceded and a large amount of indemnities was paid. Since then, total of eight Western powers including the United States got into China and sliced up major cities and ports into colonized districts. Mr Schell , I do not think you would imply that all current world class Chinese Atheletes/ Scientists/ Nobel prize winners all needed the so-called ???inferiority complex??? as a crutch to climb to their pinnacles of success. To use the Olympic slogan "Agony of Defeat" for China before the games started was truly indecent. China???s 2007 national economic growth rate reached 10.9%. And its merchandise exports have raised to $1.2 trillion, currently ranked the world???s 2nd largest exporter, surpassing the U.S. and only next to Germany. The sleeping giant is awake now. The least Newsweek can do is to pay this nation an ounce of respect.

    Irene Leung

    Sarasota, FL USA

  • Posted By: tdwatkins @ 08/02/2008 12:28:10 PM

    Comment: I suspect it???s the Uighurs the world will be hearing more about in the future. I hope for the sake of the Chinese, Uighurs and all of humanity we do not hear of the Uighurs around conflict, terror and bloodshed ??? yet, I further suspect we will in one fashion or another.

    Many call the Uighurs the Tibetans??? Muslims. The Uighurs, like the Buddhist Tibetans, are asking for more accommodations for their disparate culture and beliefs. The Chinese will respond that many Uighurs are a terrorist faction in bed with al-Qaeda and bent on violent separatist activities. There is fear that Uighurs are planning on disrupting the Beijing Olympics to begin on ba-ba-ling ba, or 8-8-08, to gain notoriety for ???their cause.???

    There have been historical crackdowns on the Uighurs that have been stepped up since 9-11. Many believe the Chinese have used the ???international war on terror??? as justification to tighten the grip on the Uighur people. Human rights groups contend the Chinese government exaggerates Uighur terrorist threats so it can clamp down on the Uighurs and arrest and torture those they suspect of being dissidents.

    Like the Tibetans, the Uighurs believe the Chinese government has instituted cultural genocide against them. The Chinese would respond by claiming that after the 1949 liberation, old feudal religious habits and privileges were abolished and they have removed the control of the ???reactionary ruling class??? while today the Uighur people enjoy a higher standard of living and more economic opportunities. The Chinese Government sees some Uighurs as terrorists espousing separatist ideology linked with the larger Islamic Jihadist goal to overthrow existing governments and install a religious theocracy. They claim it is for these reasons China must clamp down.

    Given these extreme views between the ethnic minority Uighurs and the Chinese government it is just a matter of time before the scab will be removed and the internal Chinese festering sore will come into full view. When the scab is removed, it is likely to be ugly and difficult for the world to ignore. Will the cause be seen as oppression, cultural genocide, employment and economic deprivation as charged by the Uighurs; terrorist attacks of a people longing for independence; or linked to al-Qaeda or Muslim extremists as an act of civil war against the Chinese government?

    The Chinese have vowed to never again be splintered by external or internal forces. These realities dictate that we will be hearing more about the Tibetans and Uighurs in the future.

    .

  • Posted By: chongyeeyap @ 08/02/2008 11:50:57 AM

    Comment: Do remember that if diiots run a democracy, they will only be capable of making idiotic decisions. DEMOCRACY DOES NOT MAKE AN IDIOT INTO A WISE MAN.

    Democcracy is nothing but an empty vessel. It will be as good as the men that run it. At least socialism with Chinese characteristics has made the People's Republic of China a major player on the world stage.

  • Posted By: chongyeeyap @ 08/02/2008 10:41:11 AM

    Comment: I totally endorse the opinion of Mr Gundam; but a few of my posts were not accepted, but that is OK.The difference between the USA & European democracies and the Asian model (which I will call the CVonfucian model) are wqorlds apart. The west & USA tout their model of democracy as the one size fits all. This is American bullshit because the peoples of the world are as ddifferent as cheese and chalk. An Indian is different from a Chinese; while the Indians & the west will identify India as a democracy, but in truth Indian democracy can striped down to just one wrod, India is desceribed as a democracy because India holds ELECTION. Is that not all that is Indian democracy. Do you think that India practise equality of opportunity; that all men are born equal ? That is what the USA & the west believe of India, but that is a lie. Is the dalit the equal to a Brahmin ? Is ther equality of opportunity in India, that will be another lie becase all the good jobs and places in Universities and colleges are reserved exclusively for the HIGH CASTE INDIANS.

    The People's Republic of China gives everybody a fair chance based on merit; and men are equal to men. I think Mr Gundam has already listed what is right with China and Confucian nation like Singapore. I will cite Malaysia as an example of a so called democracy that is everything that is not a democracy but in name only. The judiciary is totally and openly corrupt and the judiciary does not care that the people know that they do not enforce the LAW as would a common Law democracy ought to. Elections are a total fraud and the people and government know that the people know that the government grab elections by fraud. Right at this very moment the leader of our Opposition has been outrageously framed for committing sodomy and the police reports were concealed from the accused person. There were two doctors' report, one showing there is absolutely no evidence of sodomy while the second was obtained by the police investigating the sodomy report BY COERCION compelling the doctor to contradict the first report that says there was no evidence of sodomy committed; these two reports contradicting each other can be proven to be so. This is the democracy that has passed muster by the USA and accepted as a democracy because they hold fraudulent election.

    It is unacceptable by Asians in general and much detested by us for external forces to interfere in our internal affairs, but the USA & the west make their business to do what we detest the most. If only the USA & the west will leave us to do our own thing the USA will be more acceptable in Asia.

    • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/02/2008 12:42:30 PM

      Comment: Hi Chong,

      Thought of you this morning when doing my daily reading. The author has had an influence all over the world, not just in Asia.

      ====

      It is said in the Book of Poetry, "The hawk flies up to heaven;
      the fishes leap in the deep." This expresses how this way is seen
      above and below.

      The way of the superior man may be found, in its simple elements, in
      the intercourse of common men and women; but in its utmost reaches, it
      shines brightly through Heaven and earth.

      The Master said "The path is not far from man. When men try to
      pursue a course, which is far from the common indications of
      consciousness, this course cannot be considered The Path.

      "In the Book of Poetry, it is said, 'In hewing an ax handle, the pattern is not far off. We grasp one ax handle to hew the other; and yet, if we look askance from the one to the other, we may consider them as apart. Therefore, the superior man governs men, according to their nature, with what is proper to them, and as soon as they change what is wrong, he stops.

      "When one cultivates to the utmost the principles of his nature, and
      exercises them on the principle of reciprocity, he is not far from the
      path. What you do not like when done to yourself, do not do to others.

      ====

      I have found this passage to be a very good filter for looking at both the myriad differences and similarities in people and structures around the world. Any movement that would change peoples essential nature, is destinied for hardship and misery, as the strain cannot be maintained over generations.

      And just as the hawk and the fish have different goals, in the end, they are the same (in the deisre to live life as intended by their nature).

      The examples you have given, are all examples of certain people and governments going to far in their demands to change the course of common men and women. But in corallary, such agents, are not broadly representative of the general population of people living at a specific geography.

      Have a good one. Gotta run. (quote is from Doctrine of the Mean)

  • Posted By: braveyc @ 08/01/2008 10:55:14 PM

    Comment: ok, i see it, you're always being hurt, while you bring hurt to the other peoples in the wolrd "consistently". isn't it? and i hope you can persuade your fellows to resist the Chinese products and stop selling yours to us. so we can make it clear what's going on and what the remedy is, shall we come back to the right path? it's not repeat the routine, as you would understand the situation rationally.

  • Posted By: braveyc @ 08/01/2008 10:54:31 PM

    Comment: ok, i see it, you're always being hurt, while you bring hurt to the other peoples in the wolrd "consistently". isn't it? and i hope you can persuade your fellows to resist the Chinese products and stop selling yours to us. so we can make it clear what's going on and what the remedy is, shall we come back to the right path? it's not repeat the routine, as you would understand the situation rationally.

  • Posted By: braveyc @ 08/01/2008 10:51:21 PM

    Comment: ok, i see it, you're always being hurt, while you bring hurt to the other peoples in the wolrd "consistently". isn't it? and i hope you can persuade your fellows to resist the Chinese products and stop selling yours to us. so we can make it clear what's going on and what the remedy is, shall we come back to the right path? it's not repeat the routine, as you would understand the situation rationally.

  • Posted By: oohkuchi @ 08/01/2008 6:02:39 PM

    Comment: Yesterday China ran its first bullet train, joining the handful of countries that have mastered the technology. This week, too, it was reported that Shenzhen ???legalized??? its 12 million migrant workers, a significant step towards ending a major injustice. A step forward. But what people read about in the west this week was Internet blocks and an Amnesty International report, which Western news organizations treated, as usual, like hungry circus seals getting their kippers???honking, dribbling, unquestioningly regurgitating. They never check or challenge anything Amnesty says.

    Bad news is all they want, and the sexiest bad news at the moment comes out of China. On June 29, the IHT (alone) reported that more than 30 people were killed when police fired into crowds of protestors in a major outbreak of unrest. You didn???t see this on CNN or the BBC because it happened in India, not China, and the victims were Gujjars, not Tibetans. Nor do westerners ever hear much about the open sore of caste, which condemns tens of millions of Indians to squalor and suffering. China doesn???t have caste. It???s an egalitarian society. Boring. One journalist in China gets unjustly banged up for a month, and it???s front page news. Ten dalits lynched and burnt to death in UP???another day at the office.

    It isn???t that the western media lie about China. It???s just so many (Newsweek is fairer) are so absurdly one-sided in their coverage, so obsessed with human rights that they are unable to view the country in any other terms. They, more than the Chinese, are the ones who are blinded by propaganda, the propaganda of democratic fundamentalism. They are the ones who keep on missing the big picture as they line up to interview the latest star dissident that nobody in China cares about. Like it or not, the CPC is now arguably the second most important organization in the world, but I cannot think of a single western journo capable of writing authoritatively about it, who has personal experience of it, good contacts within it, who really knows how it works. Lacking these insights, western media crank the same formula story over and over--do a few ???nice??? paras at the top, and then, about halfway down, get stuck in with the ???buts??????corruption, pollution, the dissident quotes, the rest of it???that make up the meat of the story. I have no love for China???s propaganda machinery, but to understand what is happening there you simply have to read the China Daily, because western coverage is so poor.

    • Posted By: Gundam @ 08/02/2008 7:20:24 AM

      Comment: I agree completely wid oohkuchis' comments. Very well said. As I typed on my previous comments, the thing that irked most Chinese (asians in general actually) is the bias reporting by big western news networks like CNN. Instead of being a professional and objective source of information CNN and BBC seems to be one big propaganda machines of Western Countries. To be fair tho BBC is much farier than CNN. In this day and age it really does not matter as much wat kind of gov't a country has. What matters more is who is at the helm. Democracy may be an ideal gov't to have but if u have corrupt and bad leaders it will do u no good compared to dictatorship under a wise leader. Case in point is Singapore under Lee Kan Yew. Singapore was the most heavy-handed dictatorship during its early years but look where it is now. Contrast that to alot of so-called American democracy in Southeast asia where corruption and abuse is common. Democracy,tho the best one to have, is not the be-all end-all solution that western gov't espouses it to be. Democracy did not enable the Indian gov't to abolish slavery and the caste system, Yet Western Rights grp does not seem to mind or make a fuss about it. In China during the revolution Mao Ze Dong immediately declared women and men equal. Everything else Mao did tho i hate lol. Todays Tycoons in China are ppl who was once very poor. You dont have that much social mobility in India if u belong to the slave caste. You just stay a slave. Yet Western Media always criticizes China for repressing its ppl lol. Alot of countries in the world is proof that just because it does not have the exact democratic model of gov't with the west does not mean its a tyrant and evil. Just as every parents in the whole world has his/her own way of raising their child. Each country and culture has their own way of doing things. Democracy is such a wonderful concept. Its sad that it is being used by individuals or countries as a means to further their self-interest instead of promoting wat it really means which includes respect for others to be heard and understanding.

  • Posted By: kkndzzz @ 08/01/2008 2:31:59 PM

    Comment: I don't like CCP,but I dislike Dala Lama,as most of you dislike Bin Laden,the only distinction between them is how many people they killed.you don't know the truth,because you only gather infomation from your media,because most of you can't read Chinese,but most of us can read English,so we gather info from all over the world,so in our opinion,some of your saying is stubid,funny,and irresponsible

    • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 3:22:55 PM

      Comment: Nah, you are wrong about that. You just google and it translates. As I said earlier "Speaking and writing Chinese do not make a Chinese". By the same token, "Speaking and writing Amreican do not make an American". China was clearly out PR by the Dali Lama. You get lots to learn.

      I am going to enjoy my 6 Martini lunch now as a retiree thanks for being able to be a BS artist in your country in the earlier days of your reform/opening.

  • Posted By: kkndzzz @ 08/01/2008 2:07:28 PM

    Comment: you don't understand a really Chinese's mind,also you don't clued-up a "young Chinese".
    so you don't know what's our true opinion towards the Party,the country, the 2008 Olympic Games,Dalai Lama,BBC%CNN etc..
    not all of our opinion is positive,include to the party and the Olympic,we also have our own thoughts

    • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 2:43:50 PM

      Comment: I often say: "Speaking and writing Chinese do not make a Chinese". Most of the "experts" are just BS artists. The Chinese are finally figuring that out and I lost my consulting contracts, so I retired.

      You are doing just fine and should stay on course with adjustments to suit evolving environment as needed. Not everything Western is good for you and I am sad to observe many youngsters are Western everything. You should keep your Yuen-Ming-Yuen as is just like the Cathedrals in Koln and Berling. Good luck.

  • Posted By: kkndzzz @ 08/01/2008 2:06:15 PM

    Comment: you don't understand a really Chinese's mind,also you don't clued-up a "young Chinese".
    so you don't know what's our true opinion towards the Party,the country, the 2008 Olympic Games,Dalai Lama,BBC%CNN etc..
    not all of our opinion is positive,include to the party and the Olympic,we also have our own thoughts
    most US.

  • Posted By: Young Hickory @ 08/01/2008 11:39:14 AM

    Comment: DWPitts is correct. We are floating in a sea of unecessary junk from China via Wal Mart which the government subsidizes.

    • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 12:47:17 PM

      Comment: The expenditure of energy, through the production of these type of goods, represents a massive diversion of capital into something with very little economic utility, things that have near zero recovery value. At a time when oil is becoming an increasingly scarce resource, how long can we justify misplacing and wasting capital?

      This is the the argument, I believe, that needs to be held not only in the US, but worldwide. Somehow, we have lost the willpower to manage our lives according to the old economic rules in regards to capital (land, money, resources). We waste so much now.

      In short, I'm looking in my garage at the endless stacks of worthless junk that nobody wants now. Was this the best use of that capital? So, i point no fingers at anybody and blame no one (except myself for falling into this behavior). But the warning bells are ringing loudly. We must do something.

      For me, as a trained engineer, I think we need to shift the pardigm of energy utilization. It solves so many problems, and puts us back in the position we need to be in. Oil has run its course (even the markets are stating this as they increase price and lower production). Alternatives exist, so maybe, its time to push the monied interests out of the way, and move on collectively as a society.

      • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 1:03:25 PM

        Comment: My garages and house are uncluttered because we don't buy anything made in China or things with Chinese made contents. I have been naked for the last several years because I wear no clothes, not by choice but by principle. I am sometimes Engineer and sometimes world's foremost Banking authority. I am now studying to be a magican so I can turn on US manufacturing when the needs come. This is most promising field for career minded individuals. Did I say I have retired? I am still very ambitious.

        • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 1:42:43 PM

          Comment: If you have been naked for the last ten years, perhaps you should visit your nearest Goodwill store, They have outlets in almost every American city. Computer products can be had there also for a fraction of the retail cost and may help you with your Apple IIe problem. Just a suggestion, some fresh air might do you some good, lol. Put on some clothes, go outside, breathe the air. Live alittle bro, lol.

          • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 2:10:39 PM

            Comment: 94062 is outside and fresh air. We don't have Goodwill store around. If we do, I doubt it will stay open for long.

            • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 2:25:23 PM

              Comment: Does Ken Kesey still have that property down the road from you? Have you been drinking the Kool-aid again, Devil? lol.

              • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 3:06:12 PM

                Comment: He was in un-incorporated area, just tagged on the zip code just like the law firm off 101 with their biz card address in Palo Alto. Ooops, someone goofed by missing the "East".

        • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 1:10:36 PM

          Comment: Good luck with your new profession Devil. Welcome to America, lol.

          • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 1:57:23 PM

            Comment: Nahhh, don't laugh too much, it adds wrinkles to your face. Now you know why they call me Dean Qai Lo there.

            Glad to be home in America. Chinese are too modest for my being nude all the time. I don't need to hide anything by falsifying my qualifications ot make a point tho.

            • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 2:17:16 PM

              Comment: Sorry to dissapoint you, but I have falsified nothing. So sad, no wonder we are in the shape we are, with so many non-believers pumping out noise instead of actually doing or saying something.

              In the construction of electronic systems of the magnitude described previously, sorry to disappoint, but it required engineers to design and build. Sorry you don't understand that. Can't buy it on a margin call, if it don't exist.

              As far as my credentials, they are much more extensive than just my involvement with the PBC. I guess you know that already, given your clairvoyance and newly acquired magical skills. Alakazam! Over to you Houdini. I'm waiting with baited breathe to watch you pull a rabbit out of your ass, lol.

              • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 2:59:47 PM

                Comment: You must not done a very good job there. Chinese banks are among the most corrupted and their Central Bank couldn't catch them until years later. Those willie bankers are driving housing price sky high in Canada under the protection of Western Law and Order. Human rights to everyone (with money). "Guns don't kill, people do" argument again. If one has to exchange currencies or cash traveler checks in China, I advise he empties his bladder first. But in HK, it only takes seconds, Ah, HK uses British technology and system.

                I

                • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 5:34:13 PM

                  Comment: HK doesn't use British banking technology anymore, Devil. The HKMA designed their own systems and took over system operation from the Hong Kong-Shanghai Bank back in the 1990s. One of their leading technical advisers was from the New York Federal Reserve Bank. I see what you're attempting, but its sadly misplaced, lol.

                • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 3:47:00 PM

                  Comment: The reason for that, is the currency, the Yuan, is unconvertible. That's not in the domain of the central bank. In China, all currency issues (other than the printing) fall under the domain of the State Treasury. It's a whole different discussion as to whether it is, or is not, appropriate for the Yuan to be floated. Last time I was involved, they believed it was not in their interest to float it. Don't know where it stands now. Been along time since I been there, lol.

                  The reason HK dollar is easy is because it has retained its status under the hand-over agreement (the so called "50 year hands off agreement"). However, by treaty agreement, the HK dollar is underwritten by the US Treasury, not the British. It's been this way since 1983, when the handover was announced by the British government.

                  You can google that. The 1983 sequence of events (along with the emergence of Shenzhen) are interesting topics. The growth of the Shenzhen SEZ is nothing less than stellar. From fields on the other side of the New Territories to a multi-million person city in a few short years. Awesome.

                  Some of the other posters here would be better able to discuss the currency issues though. Pros, Cons, etc. Somebody earlier mentioned the exchange in the Chinese domestic money centers is 7.7 yuan per dollar. When I worked there it was above 9 yuan/dollar. In the days of the FECs, the dollar was worth a lot more on the street, though such trading was, and is, illegal.

    • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 12:47:13 PM

      Comment: Mmmmm Hickory SC. Wonder where Ethen Ellen furnitures are made. I think I came across that in Ted Kuppel's program about PRC. They don't sell them through Walmarts, do they?

      • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 1:08:09 PM

        Comment: Devil, does life end without Ethan Allen furniture in your home? Interesting. So life is no fun if we aren't buying stuff? Buy! Buy! Buy!

  • Posted By: johnqc @ 08/01/2008 2:12:55 AM

    Comment: It is rare for myself, a well-educated and more worldy Chinese to find someone from west who is able to give a clear picture of China and the Chinese people. Chinese people are more open to reasonable commenrts or viewpoints instead of fabricated or exaggerated news rep[orts and politian-driven actions. I shall take off my hat to the author. John Cheng

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 08/01/2008 1:39:57 AM

    Comment: You just illustrated this statement: IGNORANCE CAN CAUSE A COUNTRY'S DOWNFALL
    :

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 08/01/2008 1:28:10 AM

    Comment: In our modern world, cooperation of nations is the key to prosperity. United we stand. For example, a dollar invested in North America might produce 10 units of product; but could produce 25 with same quality in countries with low labour cost. With progressive transportation and tariff, that same unit could be brought back with cheaper price. Nations with cheaper labour cost can specialize in manufacturing because it benefits both types of nations. Countries with higher labour cost can prosper by production of manufacturing machines; or investing in energy and resources (needed for manufacturing). For instance, rich countries' governments can build energy and resources based enterprises to employ its people and then sell them to private sector. Those enterprises will feed manufacturing-based industries like in China. Or they can provide incentives and tax-break for that sector. IT COULD BE A WIN-WIN SITUATION FOR ALL. ONE COUNTRY RISING DOES NOT NECCESSARILY MEAN ANOTHER COUNTRY'S DOWNFALL. IGNORANCE CAN CAUSE A COUNTRY'S DOWNFALL

  • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 12:58:25 AM

    Comment: Pitts, so what's your point? Sarcasm without making point and completely off base in fact is just as irrational as throwing bellicose garbage.

    • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 1:36:21 AM

      Comment: Oh, it made a point alright. You just can't see it. This is the point:

      1) One person states, ???we don't need you or your markets, they are worthless???.???.

      2) Second person states, ???Fine, so you won't mind then if we set the tariffs so high that your goods cannot be sold here???. (injects sarcasm here to draw out first persons real intentions)

      3) First person, how dare you threaten to raise the tariff. Go ahead and try, we will bla bla bla.

      4) Second person laughs at the first persons hypocrisy and draws out the truth, that stated markets are NOT worthless, and first person is not speaking truthfully or intending to engage in rational debate. The information is valuable in terms of choosing to either further engage rational debate, if party is speaking truthfully, or proceed to pop bubbles if discourse is nothing but vile invectives.

      So what???s your story?

      • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 4:57:21 AM

        Comment: I did layout my debate clearly and you have not replied. Here are some of the questions again:

        1). Without "cheap"Chinese good, how are we going to carry on our daily life?
        2). Who are we going to punish with high tariffs?
        3). How are we going to switch on the manufacturing engines for consumer and basic goods again? What will be the prices of goods? How long they are going to take (switch on)?
        4). What shall be our response if China starts calling in the money we owe or stop buying treasuries?

        Chinese don't like #4, but I am going to stop at 4 questions for now. I shall go on to 13 the next time.

        • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 11:08:52 AM

          Comment: To answer another of your burning questions: Does your daughter really need 250 barbie dolls, with a complete line of accessories? Can't she learn to accessorize with just 100 barbie dolls, lol?

          You confuse himan needs, with human wants.

        • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 10:15:35 AM

          Comment: That's not a debate argument, by the way, you ask a bunch of questions only. You specify no position what so ever. Further, you still don???t get it, my comment about tariffs was sarcasm, lol.

          In regards some of your questions, though, maybe one of the best answers I can give you, is perhaps mass consumption is not such a sound public policy. Perhaps returning to a production orientation, and away from this endless purchase of frivolous items, we may find fair solutions not only to trade imbalance, but also, to the incredible amounts of energy we consume. Do we, as individuals, really need 2 XBOX360s, 4 TVs, and an incredible assortment of expensive toys for entertainment?

          Further, some here had fun at the US's expense given the price of gasoline this summer. Their taunting is meaningless, however, what the increased price presents to us as a people is an opportunity. An opportunity to correct this mass consumption mentality we have entered into over the last 20-30 years. If we do not move hard into alternative energies and public policies now, then when?

          Starting in the mid-1980s, there was a shift in the US from placing value on science, engineering, and manufacturing. In the vacuum left, we as a society have chased after the illusion that business ethos are all that is needed. This was a mistake, in my opinion, and now, as our infrastructure ages and enters into decline, we are faced with some very hard choices. And if solely business ethos is used to decide, we will enter into long-term societal decline.

          Do we really need more sporting arenas instead of repairing our roads and bridges? See, it's going to require shifting priorities, and the allocation of public monies, away from mass consumption and back into tending to our national, domestic business. If not, some of these writers here are correct, they will own us. In Minneapolis last year, the local sports stadium was full of cheering fans, while less than a mile away, some of their neighbors drowned in the river from a massive bridge collapse. Can???t you see?

          This is not an issue for the Chinese, by the way, this needs to be wrestled with in the US, amongst our populace. The clock is ticking, and we have little time to spare on further allowing the negativity of consumption junkies to void our need for rational public policies on energy, education, importation, and international relations. We have much work to do, if we seriously want to solve our issues.

          And by the way, don't ever under-estimate the capacity of America to turn up manufacturing capacity, if the need is in place. Oh, and one more thing. We don???t need any more cowboy presidents, ever, lol.

          So who are you? A WalMart manager, perhaps? lol.

          • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 12:27:13 PM

            Comment: Mmm, very interesting, debate without topics and questions. I can score on air balls also.

            Study economics and Walmart Manager? I do much better than that. I never had to study, just copied the papers from the guys sat next to me including potatos, I mean the word. I ended up heading the Council for American Competitiveness and spoke with absolute knowledge to convince all the American big biz that we needed to take the high grounds by focusing on value added high tech industries and service industriies. We can always turn manufacturing back on by flipping a switch because we can do anything, we are Americans. I also swore that I would buy nothing from Walmart, obly American brands like KK, TH, HP, Dell, etc. But I do read labels and research the origins of the contents in the stuffs I buy. I would debate with face to face, but I can't leave my American built home because I am naked --- no underwear, clothes, shoes and I haven't taken showers in 10 years because I can't dry myself without towels. My response to you is really slow because my aging Apple II. It's frustrating as hell. Fortunately my wife doesn't do research so we still have food on the table. She does read the labels carefully, only American brands and Crest tooth paste. The real sad thing is that I won't be able to watch TV anymore come Feb 2009. My rugged Zenith has to go to the dump. I am glad tho because the ewaste will end up in China --- a little sweet revenge for me.

            Glad you mentioned the Treasuries do have maturity dates. Wonder who's bidding on the new ones and what would happen if the Chinese put the money from matured treasuries into Euros. As I type, my CRT is acting up so I am going to take a potty break while it cools down a bit. I am glad the Charmin is still 100% Made in USA. I am proud that I can use it without any gilt.

            • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 2:03:15 PM

              Comment: Gee, Devil, sorry to hear about your unfortunate situation. Before you throw away that old Zenith, you do know there is a US government program that will allow you to continue using it? No need to miss your favorite TV shows just because of the shift to digital transmission. As a US taxpayer, you simply need to make the request and they will send a box that allows you to continue watching girls gone wild commercials, or whatever it is that entertains you, lol.

              Just a suggestion.

              • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 3:25:39 PM

                Comment: Made in China. No deal.

          • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 10:52:11 AM

            Comment: Now, to address another of your questions???the debt you are shaking in your boots over are United States treasury bills and bonds. They are not bank loans, with call-in clauses. Said instruments have a date of maturity, and funding was cated for them at the time of issuance.

            China, per se, bought many of these bills in the secondary money markets when Japan and Korea, both, sold off some, if not most, of their holdings. To sell before maturity, is to lose value on the note or bill, and is not typically a good decision, unless you need to move ???long money??? into a different venue. In essence, if they ???call in??? the notes, they must sell at a discount, and only in one of the secondary money markets. Didn't you take micro-economics in college? For me, the old zero coupon, tigers and cats were much more fun, lol.

            So, basically, the United States has to fail completely, for said notes to be ???worthless???. Please stop confusing the ambitions, desires and exaggerations of some of these writers here with reality, lol. Have a little faith. Jeez???.

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 07/31/2008 11:59:00 PM

    Comment: In the article " China's Superpower Economy " by John J. Tkacik, Jr. (Dec.28/2007) (www.heritage.org), the author stated the following objective facts:
    " China's new status is not surprising. China has been the world's leading producer of steel, copper, aluminum, cement, and coal for several years. As a consumer, China surpassed Japan as the globe's second largest importer of petroleum in 2005. In 2006, China surpassed Japan as the world's No. 2 auto market, with total sales of 7.2 million vehicles and production of 7.3 million. In 2007, China also became the world's top producer of merchant ships...... In 2006, America's manufacturing sector produced about $2.7 trillion in goods. China's manufacturing sector produced about 8.74 trillion yuan in goods, or about $1.124 trillion at the prevailing exchange rate of 7.77 yuan to the U.S. dollar. But the real value of China's output is more than twice the exchange-rate value, according to price studies done by the World Bank for the year 2005..... Applying the Purchase Power Parity factor of 2.38 (by World Bank), China's $1.124 trillion worth of manufacturing output would be worth $2.717 trillion on the U.S. market???slightly higher than America's $2.7 trillion in manufacturing output."
    With that massive and rapid increase in output, mistakes can easily be made. No country can be exempt from production defects. The reason the world knows so much about China's manufacturing defects or its "dangerous products" is simply because the world has become dependent on Chinese low-cost products.
    But that also is set to rapid improvements. According to www.edn.com (Is China the next R&D superpower? ): " Fewer Americans are earning doctoral degrees in science and engineering, 25,509 in 2001 (the last year for which comparative figures are available), versus 27,243 in 1996. And American governmental spending on R&D in the physical sciences, math and engineering has slipped from 0.25 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP) in 1970 to 0.16 percent in 2003, according to the Alliance for Science & Technology Research in America (ASTRA). Meanwhile, China is steaming in the opposite direction. China nearly doubled its output of science and engineering Ph.D.s between 1996 and 2001, to 8,153. And in the six years between 1997 and 2002, national and local governmental spending on research in China doubled, to approximately $9.9 billion. " PROGRESS IS THE HALLMARK OF PRIDE, NOT HUMILIATION

  • Posted By: gaelg @ 07/31/2008 11:26:08 PM

    Comment: In its current history of humiliation, China has a great deal to be humiliated about as it fobs inferior, adulterated, and dangerous products onto the world market.

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 07/31/2008 10:45:56 PM

    Comment: This article is a proof that the spectacular ascent of China on the world stage does gather deep-rooted fear and alienation in the wetern mindset. China was a superpower for thousands of year and is set on a path to reclaim its title. China achieved economically in two decades what the rest of the world did in two centuries. If that is called inferior, what else humility can be called?

    • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 12:04:40 AM

      Comment: Indeed, there is deep rooted fears in the West of the "China Rises". Afterall, there are 1.3B of them. With modern weaponry, a solid economic base, it could be the Mongol Empire all over again. Pertaining to importing cheap Chinese goods, there is no if or but about it. It benefits both China and the USA. Without "cheap" Chinese stuffs, our economy will come to a halt and the Chinese economic growths will experience major set back. I am surprised the DWPitts doesn't understand that if he is really what he said he was. No one can turn the manufacturing engines on with the flip of a switch. It shall take decade(s)! It is easier to paddle surplus goods elsewhere if one is willing to make less or no profit. DWPitts got to be an imposter. If not, show us some credentials so that we can google you.

      The reality is no one can become prosperous just by being himself alone in the global economy. The USA is particularly weak at this moment. Until the foreign wars end, there is no cure for the "recession". The "cheap" Chinese will become expensive for us if the greenbacks keep sliding.

      • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 12:38:42 AM

        Comment: Apparently, you don't understand sarcasm either, lol. The sarcastic remarks I made were in regard to some stating the US was nothing and there was no need for our markets. The sarcasm was designed to call a certain bluff. We don't matter? You don't need us? Fine. I then threw the sarcastic statement about barriers to entry (read Michael Porter if you don't know what the construct is). Look at the wild responses I got, lol. It's exactly what I expected.

        And as far as showing you who I am and where I live, you can forget that pal. Read the words, respond if you choose. Ignore them if you don't like them. It's a free country. Attack me here all you like. But no way am I exposing my identify to anyone who can not hold a rational debate, instead choosing base and vulgar insults.

        So, if you wish to debate, sit aside your childish insults, and lay out the grounds you wish to argue. But if you respond with more bellicose garbage, I won't be wasting my time. So, waht's on your mind....

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 07/31/2008 10:45:13 PM

    Comment: This article is a proof that the spectacular ascent of China on the world stage does gather deep-rooted fear and alienation in the wetern mindset. China was a superpower for thousands of year and is set on a path to reclaim its title. China achieved economically in two decades what the rest of the world did in two centuries. If that is called inferior, what else humility can be called?

  • Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 07/31/2008 10:41:30 PM

    Comment: China has a very long and tultumous history of domestic in nature. Despite having the power and other advances throughout history It has never imposed its ideas and beliefs on other nations, instead Britain being just small islands and so far away bullied the Chinese and now the US is doing the same. The Chinese are very civilised compared to the west. They don't bother others.

    Despite the current progress and achievements, the majority of the citizens are still poor and the gap between the have and the have not is getting bigger and bigger.Now being a communist nation, the Chinese leaders have always resort to pomp and peagantry to show to its citizens their achievements, all seemingly on massive scales. The olympics is not entirely for show to the world but rather more of a long awaited show for its citizens.

  • Posted By: syzdekbr @ 07/31/2008 9:35:21 PM

    Comment: I think as these comments have shown, a country can suddenly come into some money, but that does not guarantee it will get some class. Think "The Beverly Hillbillies", but with an inferiority complex.

    • Posted By: spf123 @ 08/01/2008 9:03:06 AM

      Comment: Bingo! typical line that europeans dub americans. lol.

      Since when everyone gets some class? lol.

      you just make me laugh, loudly.

  • Posted By: Gundam @ 07/31/2008 11:53:47 AM

    Comment: We have to remember that altho Japan's invasion is one of the most humiliating chapter in China's history, the plans by Western powers to subdivide China into various territories under Western rule (Britain, U.S, Germany, Russia, France etc) during its time of great weakness, was a very deep insult and made them wary of western powers.
    To claim that the Pro-China comments that flooded CNN are young educated local Chinese who have been brainwashed by propaganda is quite untrue. Propaganda may still exist in subtle forms in schools in China, but it???s not the sort of propaganda that the author seems to imply which is cold war type propaganda, it???s more like history written in favor of their own country. And this is quite normal and done by every country in the world, especially Western powers where the quote "History is written by the Victors" originated. Also a lot of the Pro-China in Los Angeles were Western-educated Chinese who is born and educated in the U.S and have not even stepped into China. A lot don???t even speak mandarin.
    It???s not only the timing of the Tibet demonstration that agitated the Chinese in every parts of the world but the way some western media, particularly CNN, handled it. People expected professionalism and objective reporting from media like CNN. But when u watch how Cnn and other western governments reported the Tibetan riot, you get the feeling that they are supporting and encouraging the riots, which should not be the case. China sent troops because rioters started to kill innocent ppl, burn temples and loot shops. If Western media/governments felt something wrong wid the way it was handled then it???s their right to criticize. But to condemn gov't forces trying to stop the rampage while blatantly ignoring the brutal acts of the rioters reeks full of hypocrisy. They should also condemn the rioters for what they have done for a fairer reporting.
    Concerning Human Rights which also seemed to have interestingly popped up more often now that the Olympics is near. Western gov???t has to accept and respect other cultures and norms. It is a different set of ppl, value and history which should be respected and vice versa. They can't and should not force their ideas and belief to another person let alone a country and region. Communication and relationship is a better way. Cheerdancer in mini skirt and showing lots of skin may be the norm here in the west. But in countries like Saudi Arabia it can be blasphemous and insulting.
    To the Chinese, be proud of what your country have achieved in the last 20-30 years. Remember that in life there will always be some who will try to put you down. But just like in sports keep your heads up and try to live up your dreams. Try to keep an open mind as well despite all these adversaries. Good Luck in the Beijing Olympics. Hope you have a very successful hosting of the games and kudos to the preparations that your country has made for the games. China certainly raised th

  • Posted By: evalroy @ 07/31/2008 11:29:59 AM

    Comment: The China???s Agony of defeat is really a western misinterpretation. A case of Lost in translatio