China’s Agony of Defeat

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  • Posted By: braveyc @ 08/01/2008 10:55:14 PM

    ok, i see it, you're always being hurt, while you bring hurt to the other peoples in the wolrd "consistently". isn't it? and i hope you can persuade your fellows to resist the Chinese products and stop selling yours to us. so we can make it clear what's going on and what the remedy is, shall we come back to the right path? it's not repeat the routine, as you would understand the situation rationally.

  • Posted By: braveyc @ 08/01/2008 10:54:31 PM

    ok, i see it, you're always being hurt, while you bring hurt to the other peoples in the wolrd "consistently". isn't it? and i hope you can persuade your fellows to resist the Chinese products and stop selling yours to us. so we can make it clear what's going on and what the remedy is, shall we come back to the right path? it's not repeat the routine, as you would understand the situation rationally.

  • Posted By: braveyc @ 08/01/2008 10:51:21 PM

    ok, i see it, you're always being hurt, while you bring hurt to the other peoples in the wolrd "consistently". isn't it? and i hope you can persuade your fellows to resist the Chinese products and stop selling yours to us. so we can make it clear what's going on and what the remedy is, shall we come back to the right path? it's not repeat the routine, as you would understand the situation rationally.

  • Posted By: Young Hickory @ 08/01/2008 11:39:14 AM

    DWPitts is correct. We are floating in a sea of unecessary junk from China via Wal Mart which the government subsidizes.

    • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 12:47:17 PM

      The expenditure of energy, through the production of these type of goods, represents a massive diversion of capital into something with very little economic utility, things that have near zero recovery value. At a time when oil is becoming an increasingly scarce resource, how long can we justify misplacing and wasting capital?

      This is the the argument, I believe, that needs to be held not only in the US, but worldwide. Somehow, we have lost the willpower to manage our lives according to the old economic rules in regards to capital (land, money, resources). We waste so much now.

      In short, I'm looking in my garage at the endless stacks of worthless junk that nobody wants now. Was this the best use of that capital? So, i point no fingers at anybody and blame no one (except myself for falling into this behavior). But the warning bells are ringing loudly. We must do something.

      For me, as a trained engineer, I think we need to shift the pardigm of energy utilization. It solves so many problems, and puts us back in the position we need to be in. Oil has run its course (even the markets are stating this as they increase price and lower production). Alternatives exist, so maybe, its time to push the monied interests out of the way, and move on collectively as a society.

      • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 1:03:25 PM

        My garages and house are uncluttered because we don't buy anything made in China or things with Chinese made contents. I have been naked for the last several years because I wear no clothes, not by choice but by principle. I am sometimes Engineer and sometimes world's foremost Banking authority. I am now studying to be a magican so I can turn on US manufacturing when the needs come. This is most promising field for career minded individuals. Did I say I have retired? I am still very ambitious.

        • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 1:10:36 PM

          Good luck with your new profession Devil. Welcome to America, lol.

          • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 1:57:23 PM

            Nahhh, don't laugh too much, it adds wrinkles to your face. Now you know why they call me Dean Qai Lo there.

            Glad to be home in America. Chinese are too modest for my being nude all the time. I don't need to hide anything by falsifying my qualifications ot make a point tho.

            • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 2:17:16 PM

              Sorry to dissapoint you, but I have falsified nothing. So sad, no wonder we are in the shape we are, with so many non-believers pumping out noise instead of actually doing or saying something.

              In the construction of electronic systems of the magnitude described previously, sorry to disappoint, but it required engineers to design and build. Sorry you don't understand that. Can't buy it on a margin call, if it don't exist.

              As far as my credentials, they are much more extensive than just my involvement with the PBC. I guess you know that already, given your clairvoyance and newly acquired magical skills. Alakazam! Over to you Houdini. I'm waiting with baited breathe to watch you pull a rabbit out of your ass, lol.

              • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 2:59:47 PM

                You must not done a very good job there. Chinese banks are among the most corrupted and their Central Bank couldn't catch them until years later. Those willie bankers are driving housing price sky high in Canada under the protection of Western Law and Order. Human rights to everyone (with money). "Guns don't kill, people do" argument again. If one has to exchange currencies or cash traveler checks in China, I advise he empties his bladder first. But in HK, it only takes seconds, Ah, HK uses British technology and system.

                I

                • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 5:34:13 PM

                  HK doesn't use British banking technology anymore, Devil. The HKMA designed their own systems and took over system operation from the Hong Kong-Shanghai Bank back in the 1990s. One of their leading technical advisers was from the New York Federal Reserve Bank. I see what you're attempting, but its sadly misplaced, lol.

                • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 3:47:00 PM

                  The reason for that, is the currency, the Yuan, is unconvertible. That's not in the domain of the central bank. In China, all currency issues (other than the printing) fall under the domain of the State Treasury. It's a whole different discussion as to whether it is, or is not, appropriate for the Yuan to be floated. Last time I was involved, they believed it was not in their interest to float it. Don't know where it stands now. Been along time since I been there, lol.

                  The reason HK dollar is easy is because it has retained its status under the hand-over agreement (the so called "50 year hands off agreement"). However, by treaty agreement, the HK dollar is underwritten by the US Treasury, not the British. It's been this way since 1983, when the handover was announced by the British government.

                  You can google that. The 1983 sequence of events (along with the emergence of Shenzhen) are interesting topics. The growth of the Shenzhen SEZ is nothing less than stellar. From fields on the other side of the New Territories to a multi-million person city in a few short years. Awesome.

                  Some of the other posters here would be better able to discuss the currency issues though. Pros, Cons, etc. Somebody earlier mentioned the exchange in the Chinese domestic money centers is 7.7 yuan per dollar. When I worked there it was above 9 yuan/dollar. In the days of the FECs, the dollar was worth a lot more on the street, though such trading was, and is, illegal.

        • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 1:42:43 PM

          If you have been naked for the last ten years, perhaps you should visit your nearest Goodwill store, They have outlets in almost every American city. Computer products can be had there also for a fraction of the retail cost and may help you with your Apple IIe problem. Just a suggestion, some fresh air might do you some good, lol. Put on some clothes, go outside, breathe the air. Live alittle bro, lol.

          • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 2:10:39 PM

            94062 is outside and fresh air. We don't have Goodwill store around. If we do, I doubt it will stay open for long.

            • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 2:25:23 PM

              Does Ken Kesey still have that property down the road from you? Have you been drinking the Kool-aid again, Devil? lol.

              • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 3:06:12 PM

                He was in un-incorporated area, just tagged on the zip code just like the law firm off 101 with their biz card address in Palo Alto. Ooops, someone goofed by missing the "East".

    • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 12:47:13 PM

      Mmmmm Hickory SC. Wonder where Ethen Ellen furnitures are made. I think I came across that in Ted Kuppel's program about PRC. They don't sell them through Walmarts, do they?

      • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 1:08:09 PM

        Devil, does life end without Ethan Allen furniture in your home? Interesting. So life is no fun if we aren't buying stuff? Buy! Buy! Buy!

  • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 12:58:25 AM

    Pitts, so what's your point? Sarcasm without making point and completely off base in fact is just as irrational as throwing bellicose garbage.

    • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 1:36:21 AM

      Oh, it made a point alright. You just can't see it. This is the point:

      1) One person states, ???we don't need you or your markets, they are worthless???.???.

      2) Second person states, ???Fine, so you won't mind then if we set the tariffs so high that your goods cannot be sold here???. (injects sarcasm here to draw out first persons real intentions)

      3) First person, how dare you threaten to raise the tariff. Go ahead and try, we will bla bla bla.

      4) Second person laughs at the first persons hypocrisy and draws out the truth, that stated markets are NOT worthless, and first person is not speaking truthfully or intending to engage in rational debate. The information is valuable in terms of choosing to either further engage rational debate, if party is speaking truthfully, or proceed to pop bubbles if discourse is nothing but vile invectives.

      So what???s your story?

      • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 4:57:21 AM

        I did layout my debate clearly and you have not replied. Here are some of the questions again:

        1). Without "cheap"Chinese good, how are we going to carry on our daily life?
        2). Who are we going to punish with high tariffs?
        3). How are we going to switch on the manufacturing engines for consumer and basic goods again? What will be the prices of goods? How long they are going to take (switch on)?
        4). What shall be our response if China starts calling in the money we owe or stop buying treasuries?

        Chinese don't like #4, but I am going to stop at 4 questions for now. I shall go on to 13 the next time.

        • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 10:15:35 AM

          That's not a debate argument, by the way, you ask a bunch of questions only. You specify no position what so ever. Further, you still don???t get it, my comment about tariffs was sarcasm, lol.

          In regards some of your questions, though, maybe one of the best answers I can give you, is perhaps mass consumption is not such a sound public policy. Perhaps returning to a production orientation, and away from this endless purchase of frivolous items, we may find fair solutions not only to trade imbalance, but also, to the incredible amounts of energy we consume. Do we, as individuals, really need 2 XBOX360s, 4 TVs, and an incredible assortment of expensive toys for entertainment?

          Further, some here had fun at the US's expense given the price of gasoline this summer. Their taunting is meaningless, however, what the increased price presents to us as a people is an opportunity. An opportunity to correct this mass consumption mentality we have entered into over the last 20-30 years. If we do not move hard into alternative energies and public policies now, then when?

          Starting in the mid-1980s, there was a shift in the US from placing value on science, engineering, and manufacturing. In the vacuum left, we as a society have chased after the illusion that business ethos are all that is needed. This was a mistake, in my opinion, and now, as our infrastructure ages and enters into decline, we are faced with some very hard choices. And if solely business ethos is used to decide, we will enter into long-term societal decline.

          Do we really need more sporting arenas instead of repairing our roads and bridges? See, it's going to require shifting priorities, and the allocation of public monies, away from mass consumption and back into tending to our national, domestic business. If not, some of these writers here are correct, they will own us. In Minneapolis last year, the local sports stadium was full of cheering fans, while less than a mile away, some of their neighbors drowned in the river from a massive bridge collapse. Can???t you see?

          This is not an issue for the Chinese, by the way, this needs to be wrestled with in the US, amongst our populace. The clock is ticking, and we have little time to spare on further allowing the negativity of consumption junkies to void our need for rational public policies on energy, education, importation, and international relations. We have much work to do, if we seriously want to solve our issues.

          And by the way, don't ever under-estimate the capacity of America to turn up manufacturing capacity, if the need is in place. Oh, and one more thing. We don???t need any more cowboy presidents, ever, lol.

          So who are you? A WalMart manager, perhaps? lol.

          • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 12:27:13 PM

            Mmm, very interesting, debate without topics and questions. I can score on air balls also.

            Study economics and Walmart Manager? I do much better than that. I never had to study, just copied the papers from the guys sat next to me including potatos, I mean the word. I ended up heading the Council for American Competitiveness and spoke with absolute knowledge to convince all the American big biz that we needed to take the high grounds by focusing on value added high tech industries and service industriies. We can always turn manufacturing back on by flipping a switch because we can do anything, we are Americans. I also swore that I would buy nothing from Walmart, obly American brands like KK, TH, HP, Dell, etc. But I do read labels and research the origins of the contents in the stuffs I buy. I would debate with face to face, but I can't leave my American built home because I am naked --- no underwear, clothes, shoes and I haven't taken showers in 10 years because I can't dry myself without towels. My response to you is really slow because my aging Apple II. It's frustrating as hell. Fortunately my wife doesn't do research so we still have food on the table. She does read the labels carefully, only American brands and Crest tooth paste. The real sad thing is that I won't be able to watch TV anymore come Feb 2009. My rugged Zenith has to go to the dump. I am glad tho because the ewaste will end up in China --- a little sweet revenge for me.

            Glad you mentioned the Treasuries do have maturity dates. Wonder who's bidding on the new ones and what would happen if the Chinese put the money from matured treasuries into Euros. As I type, my CRT is acting up so I am going to take a potty break while it cools down a bit. I am glad the Charmin is still 100% Made in USA. I am proud that I can use it without any gilt.

            • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 2:03:15 PM

              Gee, Devil, sorry to hear about your unfortunate situation. Before you throw away that old Zenith, you do know there is a US government program that will allow you to continue using it? No need to miss your favorite TV shows just because of the shift to digital transmission. As a US taxpayer, you simply need to make the request and they will send a box that allows you to continue watching girls gone wild commercials, or whatever it is that entertains you, lol.

              Just a suggestion.

              • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 3:25:39 PM

                Made in China. No deal.

          • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 10:52:11 AM

            Now, to address another of your questions???the debt you are shaking in your boots over are United States treasury bills and bonds. They are not bank loans, with call-in clauses. Said instruments have a date of maturity, and funding was cated for them at the time of issuance.

            China, per se, bought many of these bills in the secondary money markets when Japan and Korea, both, sold off some, if not most, of their holdings. To sell before maturity, is to lose value on the note or bill, and is not typically a good decision, unless you need to move ???long money??? into a different venue. In essence, if they ???call in??? the notes, they must sell at a discount, and only in one of the secondary money markets. Didn't you take micro-economics in college? For me, the old zero coupon, tigers and cats were much more fun, lol.

            So, basically, the United States has to fail completely, for said notes to be ???worthless???. Please stop confusing the ambitions, desires and exaggerations of some of these writers here with reality, lol. Have a little faith. Jeez???.

        • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 11:08:52 AM

          To answer another of your burning questions: Does your daughter really need 250 barbie dolls, with a complete line of accessories? Can't she learn to accessorize with just 100 barbie dolls, lol?

          You confuse himan needs, with human wants.

  • Posted By: kkndzzz @ 08/01/2008 2:31:59 PM

    I don't like CCP,but I dislike Dala Lama,as most of you dislike Bin Laden,the only distinction between them is how many people they killed.you don't know the truth,because you only gather infomation from your media,because most of you can't read Chinese,but most of us can read English,so we gather info from all over the world,so in our opinion,some of your saying is stubid,funny,and irresponsible

    • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 3:22:55 PM

      Nah, you are wrong about that. You just google and it translates. As I said earlier "Speaking and writing Chinese do not make a Chinese". By the same token, "Speaking and writing Amreican do not make an American". China was clearly out PR by the Dali Lama. You get lots to learn.

      I am going to enjoy my 6 Martini lunch now as a retiree thanks for being able to be a BS artist in your country in the earlier days of your reform/opening.

  • Posted By: kkndzzz @ 08/01/2008 2:07:28 PM

    you don't understand a really Chinese's mind,also you don't clued-up a "young Chinese".
    so you don't know what's our true opinion towards the Party,the country, the 2008 Olympic Games,Dalai Lama,BBC%CNN etc..
    not all of our opinion is positive,include to the party and the Olympic,we also have our own thoughts

    • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 2:43:50 PM

      I often say: "Speaking and writing Chinese do not make a Chinese". Most of the "experts" are just BS artists. The Chinese are finally figuring that out and I lost my consulting contracts, so I retired.

      You are doing just fine and should stay on course with adjustments to suit evolving environment as needed. Not everything Western is good for you and I am sad to observe many youngsters are Western everything. You should keep your Yuen-Ming-Yuen as is just like the Cathedrals in Koln and Berling. Good luck.

  • Posted By: kkndzzz @ 08/01/2008 2:06:15 PM

    you don't understand a really Chinese's mind,also you don't clued-up a "young Chinese".
    so you don't know what's our true opinion towards the Party,the country, the 2008 Olympic Games,Dalai Lama,BBC%CNN etc..
    not all of our opinion is positive,include to the party and the Olympic,we also have our own thoughts
    most US.

  • Posted By: syzdekbr @ 07/31/2008 9:35:21 PM

    I think as these comments have shown, a country can suddenly come into some money, but that does not guarantee it will get some class. Think "The Beverly Hillbillies", but with an inferiority complex.

    • Posted By: spf123 @ 08/01/2008 9:03:06 AM

      Bingo! typical line that europeans dub americans. lol.

      Since when everyone gets some class? lol.

      you just make me laugh, loudly.

  • Posted By: johnqc @ 08/01/2008 2:12:55 AM

    It is rare for myself, a well-educated and more worldy Chinese to find someone from west who is able to give a clear picture of China and the Chinese people. Chinese people are more open to reasonable commenrts or viewpoints instead of fabricated or exaggerated news rep[orts and politian-driven actions. I shall take off my hat to the author. John Cheng

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 08/01/2008 1:39:57 AM

    You just illustrated this statement: IGNORANCE CAN CAUSE A COUNTRY'S DOWNFALL
    :

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 08/01/2008 1:28:10 AM

    In our modern world, cooperation of nations is the key to prosperity. United we stand. For example, a dollar invested in North America might produce 10 units of product; but could produce 25 with same quality in countries with low labour cost. With progressive transportation and tariff, that same unit could be brought back with cheaper price. Nations with cheaper labour cost can specialize in manufacturing because it benefits both types of nations. Countries with higher labour cost can prosper by production of manufacturing machines; or investing in energy and resources (needed for manufacturing). For instance, rich countries' governments can build energy and resources based enterprises to employ its people and then sell them to private sector. Those enterprises will feed manufacturing-based industries like in China. Or they can provide incentives and tax-break for that sector. IT COULD BE A WIN-WIN SITUATION FOR ALL. ONE COUNTRY RISING DOES NOT NECCESSARILY MEAN ANOTHER COUNTRY'S DOWNFALL. IGNORANCE CAN CAUSE A COUNTRY'S DOWNFALL

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 07/31/2008 10:45:56 PM

    This article is a proof that the spectacular ascent of China on the world stage does gather deep-rooted fear and alienation in the wetern mindset. China was a superpower for thousands of year and is set on a path to reclaim its title. China achieved economically in two decades what the rest of the world did in two centuries. If that is called inferior, what else humility can be called?

    • Posted By: devilmaniac @ 08/01/2008 12:04:40 AM

      Indeed, there is deep rooted fears in the West of the "China Rises". Afterall, there are 1.3B of them. With modern weaponry, a solid economic base, it could be the Mongol Empire all over again. Pertaining to importing cheap Chinese goods, there is no if or but about it. It benefits both China and the USA. Without "cheap" Chinese stuffs, our economy will come to a halt and the Chinese economic growths will experience major set back. I am surprised the DWPitts doesn't understand that if he is really what he said he was. No one can turn the manufacturing engines on with the flip of a switch. It shall take decade(s)! It is easier to paddle surplus goods elsewhere if one is willing to make less or no profit. DWPitts got to be an imposter. If not, show us some credentials so that we can google you.

      The reality is no one can become prosperous just by being himself alone in the global economy. The USA is particularly weak at this moment. Until the foreign wars end, there is no cure for the "recession". The "cheap" Chinese will become expensive for us if the greenbacks keep sliding.

      • Posted By: DWPitts @ 08/01/2008 12:38:42 AM

        Apparently, you don't understand sarcasm either, lol. The sarcastic remarks I made were in regard to some stating the US was nothing and there was no need for our markets. The sarcasm was designed to call a certain bluff. We don't matter? You don't need us? Fine. I then threw the sarcastic statement about barriers to entry (read Michael Porter if you don't know what the construct is). Look at the wild responses I got, lol. It's exactly what I expected.

        And as far as showing you who I am and where I live, you can forget that pal. Read the words, respond if you choose. Ignore them if you don't like them. It's a free country. Attack me here all you like. But no way am I exposing my identify to anyone who can not hold a rational debate, instead choosing base and vulgar insults.

        So, if you wish to debate, sit aside your childish insults, and lay out the grounds you wish to argue. But if you respond with more bellicose garbage, I won't be wasting my time. So, waht's on your mind....

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 07/31/2008 11:59:00 PM

    In the article " China's Superpower Economy " by John J. Tkacik, Jr. (Dec.28/2007) (www.heritage.org), the author stated the following objective facts:
    " China's new status is not surprising. China has been the world's leading producer of steel, copper, aluminum, cement, and coal for several years. As a consumer, China surpassed Japan as the globe's second largest importer of petroleum in 2005. In 2006, China surpassed Japan as the world's No. 2 auto market, with total sales of 7.2 million vehicles and production of 7.3 million. In 2007, China also became the world's top producer of merchant ships...... In 2006, America's manufacturing sector produced about $2.7 trillion in goods. China's manufacturing sector produced about 8.74 trillion yuan in goods, or about $1.124 trillion at the prevailing exchange rate of 7.77 yuan to the U.S. dollar. But the real value of China's output is more than twice the exchange-rate value, according to price studies done by the World Bank for the year 2005..... Applying the Purchase Power Parity factor of 2.38 (by World Bank), China's $1.124 trillion worth of manufacturing output would be worth $2.717 trillion on the U.S. market???slightly higher than America's $2.7 trillion in manufacturing output."
    With that massive and rapid increase in output, mistakes can easily be made. No country can be exempt from production defects. The reason the world knows so much about China's manufacturing defects or its "dangerous products" is simply because the world has become dependent on Chinese low-cost products.
    But that also is set to rapid improvements. According to www.edn.com (Is China the next R&D superpower? ): " Fewer Americans are earning doctoral degrees in science and engineering, 25,509 in 2001 (the last year for which comparative figures are available), versus 27,243 in 1996. And American governmental spending on R&D in the physical sciences, math and engineering has slipped from 0.25 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP) in 1970 to 0.16 percent in 2003, according to the Alliance for Science & Technology Research in America (ASTRA). Meanwhile, China is steaming in the opposite direction. China nearly doubled its output of science and engineering Ph.D.s between 1996 and 2001, to 8,153. And in the six years between 1997 and 2002, national and local governmental spending on research in China doubled, to approximately $9.9 billion. " PROGRESS IS THE HALLMARK OF PRIDE, NOT HUMILIATION

  • Posted By: gaelg @ 07/31/2008 11:26:08 PM

    In its current history of humiliation, China has a great deal to be humiliated about as it fobs inferior, adulterated, and dangerous products onto the world market.

  • Posted By: martialguy @ 07/31/2008 10:45:13 PM

    This article is a proof that the spectacular ascent of China on the world stage does gather deep-rooted fear and alienation in the wetern mindset. China was a superpower for thousands of year and is set on a path to reclaim its title. China achieved economically in two decades what the rest of the world did in two centuries. If that is called inferior, what else humility can be called?

  • Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 07/31/2008 10:41:30 PM

    China has a very long and tultumous history of domestic in nature. Despite having the power and other advances throughout history It has never imposed its ideas and beliefs on other nations, instead Britain being just small islands and so far away bullied the Chinese and now the US is doing the same. The Chinese are very civilised compared to the west. They don't bother others.

    Despite the current progress and achievements, the majority of the citizens are still poor and the gap between the have and the have not is getting bigger and bigger.Now being a communist nation, the Chinese leaders have always resort to pomp and peagantry to show to its citizens their achievements, all seemingly on massive scales. The olympics is not entirely for show to the world but rather more of a long awaited show for its citizens.

  • Posted By: chongyeeyap @ 07/30/2008 11:18:48 PM

    DW. Pitts ! Hello there, I think I know who you are. I have a nemasis posting on a couple of Chinese bloggs. He calls himself Tomcat and he is a ball of fun.

    I thought I was debating a well read man in you but now I know you are a poseur. Your ignorance is so glaring, and you do not know that an investment House is also known as an investment bank. You must think the word bank must necessarily mean a retail bank.

    The point that I wanted to make if you are at all intelligent is that American financial institutions like Merrill Lynch or Standard & Poors etc were until now were untouchable because they were so big and their shares are so prohibitively expensive.. Now if you will consider the fact that even a small nation (4 million in Singapore) can buy up 20% of Merrill Lynch, you must understand the glee that we in Asia and more particularly People's Republic of China. What about your Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae ? If your government will not support these giants of debt ridden sinking ship, the USA will be in the *** hole at this point in time.

    Take notice that the fulcrum of world finance has definitely shifted to Asia and particularly to China and the East Asian confuciou nations of Japan, the Koreas, China that includes Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore. These are all nations that are Confucious in civilization. The USA may recover but she will not be more than 1/5th of her former importance. Remember China can now spend USA$60 billion to put up an Olympic Games of all Olympics Games.

    To America now that you are all but flat broke, TRY TO IMPROVE ON OUR TREMENDOUS PERFORMANCE.


    • Posted By: DWPitts @ 07/31/2008 12:08:25 AM

      You think you know me? You don't. As far as your debating partner, I have no clue who that is. Who am I? I'm the stupid SOB who redesigned your central bank, lol. I worked in Beijing from 1991-1998. I was the one who went out into the countryside and explained what was needed to reform your banks, economic systems, transportation networks and telecommunications. I carried this through the international bidding stages until an implementation contract was awarded to one of the Japanese Sogas to complete the build.

      Along the way, I drafted some of your laws in regards to the electronic movement of money. I set the in bank procedures for interbank transfer. I wrote the design and bidding documents for the construction of your central bank network. I was the one trusted to answer almost all of the vendor questions in regards to the contents of the bid, as it was my responsibility to write the formal clarifications to vendors written submissions.

      Every 3-4 months during this time, i also had to attend and prepare materials for major presentations before your government, your banking officials, and representatives of the leading central banks around the world, all of whom contributed to the re-emergence of your banking systems. In short, I worked my ass off to ensure that your country had a fair shot at participating in the global financial arena. This was my job for a very long time and I took it very seriously.

      I have presented before members of your National Academy of Science, government officials, banking officials and many, many others. Before I was able to design, I was tasked with breaking down Chinese demographics back to 1955, before which, no useful data was available. Many of your ministries provided me with both insight and useful data, especially, officials from the Ministry of Railways, whom to my surprise, were also responsible for preparing China's Five Year Plans. I studied all Chinese geography in an effort to understand the best way to construct a national network.

      I spoke for a week solid before party and banking officials at a retreat near Ermi Mountain, in an effort to explain in 1992 why banking and economic reform was necessary for China (if you understand, you know where I stayed and the significance of that location). If you do, please respond with the significance of Ermi, and I will talk further with you. But please, leave the invectives elsewhere if you choose to respond.

      Reading these posts and many of the views contained herein, it saddens me to hear these views that you so hate me and my country. I never held any similar malice toward you or your countrymen. You have left me shaking my head, wondering why I even bothered to waste my time there, though, I know, I learned such an incredible amount in this pursuit. Or as one of our prophets said, "To increase knowledge, is to increase misery", lol. Guess thats true. Anyway, over to you???

      • Posted By: horsham @ 07/31/2008 12:57:19 PM

        DwPitts,

        I do not question your work ethics, expertise, and your benevolent motives in your work in China. But anyone who have read your multiple posts here cannot help but being duly impressed with your sense of superiority. You may feel your "superiority complex" has its basis, but it's certainly no more justifiable than the Chinese backlash against those who claim to be morally superior and who want to imposed external societal and political standards on China.

        You responded to my earlier post about how a Western country would feel had they been treated similarly as China was. You basically argue that "my pain counts; yours don't". I'd advise you that if the West truly wants the benefits of a benevolent China on the world community, attitude like yours will not advance that objective.


        As for the specifics, I hope you are able to transpose your well-justified despair and anger per 9.11. to others who have experienced similar or in some cases (dare I say) far worse atrocities than what happened in New York. I also hope you can transpose your noble empathy towards the former Bear Stearns employee to the factory workers in Shenzheng who have to leave their family thousand miles behind and work 12 hours-a -day-and-six-days-a-week to earn a small fraction of what a similarly skilled U.S. worker would earn. Yes, U.S. import of Chinese goods has helped China enormously, but the reverse is also true. Such relationship is based on calculations of interests and mutual benefit. Was it charity and altruism on the part of the "superior" towards the "inferior"? Hell no!

    • Posted By: DWPitts @ 07/31/2008 1:54:51 AM

      Aw shucks, I was looking forward to talking with you in earnest. Anyway, the retreat i stayed at in Ermi is the exact place where Mao formed the 1949 government. It's also the same retreat where Deng formed the 1979 government. Some of your countrymen considered what we were doing to be on par with these events, the so called ???opening outward of the Chinese economy???. We were treated as honored and respected guests, and we performed at our best professional levels. Apparently, your elders were much better people than you young whippersnappers, lol. (that is a joke by the way)

      It was our job, as expressed and sanctioned by the United Nations, the World Bank, the IMF, and the governments of England, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, Hong Kong and the United States, who were called together by your government, under the international central bank cooperation program. It was the expressed intentions of the global community to help you reach the status you enjoy today. We did this knowing that we were affecting the performance of our own companies. The goal, by the way, was achieving international peace, not, setting up China to rule the world.

      This more than anything, is what disappoints me the most about some of the vile attitudes and statements I have read here today. You didn???t do this alone. It was the expressed intention of the worlds governments, at a time when your circumstances were much less favorable than they are now. So I???m so sorry to inform you of this, but the world helped you achieve your position.

      My mother always taught us, ???be careful how you act when you are out in the world, because you never know who you may meet or who may be watching. So, always stay on your best behavior.??? Sound advice really.

  • Posted By: evalroy @ 07/31/2008 11:29:59 AM

    The China???s Agony of defeat is really a western misinterpretation. A case of Lost in translation, the original meaning of words in Chinese is being taught through out China, as a reminder, that if your (Chinese Nation) are not united as a country and strong, western powers would prey upon you. The words in Chinese spelled here in (pin ying) are chu2 ru3. The literal meaning can be translated to humiliation, but that is a little out of the context of how it was used. What the author called the 100 year of Humiliation is actually translated from Chinese, it meant to be a reminder of what the Chinese people have accomplished during the last 100 years, to remember these humiliations, to unit, and never let these humiliations happen ever again. But everything else the author stated in the article is misguided. Like redeye said in the previous comment the humiliation is meant to encourage Chinese citizens not to repeat history.

    • Posted By: Gundam @ 07/31/2008 12:00:18 PM

      I agree wid the lsat sentece of this comment as well. We should not look at the humiliation as something purely negative.

  • Posted By: Gundam @ 07/31/2008 11:53:47 AM

    We have to remember that altho Japan's invasion is one of the most humiliating chapter in China's history, the plans by Western powers to subdivide China into various territories under Western rule (Britain, U.S, Germany, Russia, France etc) during its time of great weakness, was a very deep insult and made them wary of western powers.
    To claim that the Pro-China comments that flooded CNN are young educated local Chinese who have been brainwashed by propaganda is quite untrue. Propaganda may still exist in subtle forms in schools in China, but it???s not the sort of propaganda that the author seems to imply which is cold war type propaganda, it???s more like history written in favor of their own country. And this is quite normal and done by every country in the world, especially Western powers where the quote "History is written by the Victors" originated. Also a lot of the Pro-China in Los Angeles were Western-educated Chinese who is born and educated in the U.S and have not even stepped into China. A lot don???t even speak mandarin.
    It???s not only the timing of the Tibet demonstration that agitated the Chinese in every parts of the world but the way some western media, particularly CNN, handled it. People expected professionalism and objective reporting from media like CNN. But when u watch how Cnn and other western governments reported the Tibetan riot, you get the feeling that they are supporting and encouraging the riots, which should not be the case. China sent troops because rioters started to kill innocent ppl, burn temples and loot shops. If Western media/governments felt something wrong wid the way it was handled then it???s their right to criticize. But to condemn gov't forces trying to stop the rampage while blatantly ignoring the brutal acts of the rioters reeks full of hypocrisy. They should also condemn the rioters for what they have done for a fairer reporting.
    Concerning Human Rights which also seemed to have interestingly popped up more often now that the Olympics is near. Western gov???t has to accept and respect other cultures and norms. It is a different set of ppl, value and history which should be respected and vice versa. They can't and should not force their ideas and belief to another person let alone a country and region. Communication and relationship is a better way. Cheerdancer in mini skirt and showing lots of skin may be the norm here in the west. But in countries like Saudi Arabia it can be blasphemous and insulting.
    To the Chinese, be proud of what your country have achieved in the last 20-30 years. Remember that in life there will always be some who will try to put you down. But just like in sports keep your heads up and try to live up your dreams. Try to keep an open mind as well despite all these adversaries. Good Luck in the Beijing Olympics. Hope you have a very successful hosting of the games and kudos to the preparations that your country has made for the games. China certainly raised th

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