China’s Agony of Defeat

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: horsham @ 07/29/2008 12:02:56 PM

    Most westerners see the backwardness of China (in its recent history and at the present day) as its own making, and the west bears no blame and has every right to shout at the Chinese for whatever it does not approve. The Chinese see many of their problems, at least partly, as the result, or derivatives, of foreign interventions, from the two Opium Wars to the Japanese Invasion. The repeated episodes of military violence imposed by foreign powers on China have changed the trajectory of China history profoundly. In the two hundred years leading up to the end of WWII, the west experienced unprecedented industrialization and globe-control, where as the Chinese experienced defeats, deprivation, humiliation, and internal collapses. The vicious cycles of events pivoted into national hysteria during Mao's rein.
    It took a very wise and determined man, Deng Xiaoping, to steer China back on track. He concluded that economic power determines everything else, and he mapped out a set of successful strategies to make sure that China would not be once again be distracted from its single-minded national wealth building by internal and external events. Deng Xiaoping summarized everything into "development is the hard truth". The Chinese people have thrown their support behind this grand idea and have devoted themselves to it for the past thirty years.
    This is why the Chinese people are willing to live with and to tolerate the present-day imperfections and shortcoming of their country. They recognize, correctly, that if the country can stay on course of strong economic development, everything else may have a chance to be resolved gradually. Without strong economic growth, nothing else, be it multi-party political system, freedom of press, human rights, or social equality, would matter much.
    West nations should recognize this unique Chinese experience and give China time and space to unwind. The Chinese people deserve several episodes of positive experience interacting with the foreign powers; such experience would serve as antidotes to their historical humiliation. The Beijing Olympics provides one such opportunity to do just that.
    Too bad many in the west, including some who posted in this forum, are so self-righteous and short-sighted, they choose to be mean and domineering, in the spirit of their colonial ancestors, rather than be magnanimous and fair-minded.

  • Posted By: tonychux @ 07/29/2008 11:12:44 AM

    China should have a listening ear and work with love and not hatred for their pasts.
    They should stop harrassing, arresting and detaining Africans in their underground prisons in Guangzhou especially.
    I believe human rights is the key and it should not be begged for because its the people's right.

  • Posted By: tonychux @ 07/29/2008 10:51:50 AM

    I quite agree with the authors grand knowledge about China and it's idealogy.
    Lets take for instance, the clamp down of forigners by the Guangzhou immigration police and the police in general, foreigners are being battered and taken to their underground prison awaiting deportation on payment of $2000 usd.
    This is mostly targeted on blacks especially Africans doing business in Guangzhou; Churches, restuarants, apartment etc have raided by these so called police without an atom of human rights.
    Something positive should be done.

  • Posted By: jrosenthol @ 07/29/2008 8:45:47 AM

    Redone - more like well done. Your English is as superb as your thinking. Indeed all nations in the world have flaws, have problems, and only by reaching across the aisle as you have done can we walk together into a cooperative and prosperous future. You not only stimulate my mind, but you give me hope as well.

  • Posted By: redome @ 07/29/2008 7:48:36 AM

    I think, before and after reading this article, that some of my countrymen are just too emotional. Things like Tibet protests happen in almost every country which are 100% polictical issues. This is China, not Iraq, not Yugoslavia. No need for worries. A successful Olympic Games is all what we should do now.
    I agree with the auther and Luxun that "We either look up to them as gods or down on them as wild animals." And looking up to them as wild animails is because some are just unwilling to look up to them as gods.
    The two gentlemen commented before me speak better English, while you can spend some time talking with foreign people about China instand of keeping shouting " I love China!" Rarely are foreign people know our country more than the author of this article. And in my humble opinion, this will be of more helpfulness.

  • Posted By: kanandivecha @ 07/28/2008 8:44:27 AM

    Obsession of any kind, least of all gold medals, is a no-no. China should focus on doing the right thing (raising living standards, equal opportunities for all, mass education); only then will it be able to rise above its history of national humiliation. China should also embrace the Buddhist way of living to cleanse itself of all the hate it feels towards the West. Perhaps, the Dalai Lama can help? Kanan Divecha, Mumbai, India

    • Posted By: Enlightened Soul @ 07/29/2008 12:23:06 AM

      What make you think that Dalai Lama is what he say he is? If he is so holy and concerned about his fellow Tibetan,then why did he abondon them and run for his life to India? Where is his faith in his religion? What do you know about Tibet and how they lived under Dalai's rule? May be you should enlighten yourself and do some research to see that only 6% of the Tibetans can read when he was their spiritual leader. I guess that he didn't see the need for them to be literate. Tibet was the miost backward place in the modern world, they were slves to Dalai and his royal followers! And people believe that he was chsen. Perhaps that he was chosen by the devil! Wake up,India!

      • Posted By: kanandivecha @ 07/29/2008 7:21:25 AM

        What I meant was to focus on the positives and the 'now' -- the present -- rather than the negatives and the past. Look at Japan; they were able to beat the US at their own game by focusing on.doing what's good for their economic resurgence after WW 2..Result? They gave US a run for their money. China can too. You can only win with love, not hate. That's what Buddhism teaches -- love. Kanan Divecha, Mumbai, India

  • Posted By: savagewoo @ 07/29/2008 5:32:02 AM

    ???What made the Tibet protests such an affront to so many Chinese was the timing???
    IF you'd wathced what those so-called peace-protester had done in the "peaceful" demonstration, you would not come to this conclusion. i think you american government, any governemnt in the world, will do the same thing to those thugs,wolves wearing cassock. And you call Dalai Lama gentle? sigh...

  • Posted By: cbdempsey @ 07/28/2008 1:40:19 PM

    Mr. Schell,

    This is by far the most informed and balanced piece of reporting done on China in the western media that I have read in recent memory. Thank you for providing analysis beyond the surface scratching, stereotyping, orientalists that call themselves China watchers. keep up the good work and I look forward to reading your work in the future. Thank you.

    • Posted By: nowisthetime @ 07/29/2008 3:12:30 AM

      supid comments. the author knows little about what Chinese really think. Iam Chinese. Americans are so stupid , arrogant.

      • Posted By: abroad_american @ 07/29/2008 5:03:26 AM

        Oh shut up you ass!! boo hoo!! just because you don't agree doesn't mean we're stupid. THAT clearly shows your lack of intelect...(big surprise there)

      • Posted By: abroad_american @ 07/29/2008 5:01:43 AM

        oh shut up you ass!! boohoo!! LOL

  • Posted By: alberta.xy @ 07/29/2008 4:43:44 AM

    To "nowisthetime": I am Chinese too, but your response, which is sensitive, irrational, just verifies the writer's arguments. Instead of saying "Americans are stupid", of course they are not, in general, you should point out what arguments in this article make sense, and what don't. I would argue, for example, the write failed to point out that Chinese are deeply proud of the past history before Opium War. In addition, Chinese assume they should be a supreme power, and this assumption makes us think the western doesn't have the qualification to criticize us. Of course, in wester culture, they don't think they need to qualified to criticize others. In this sense, the writer don't understand confucious well. The conflicts between western and chinese culture won't be resolved by an aritcle, but it doesn't bother me at all. Deep in my heart, I acknowledge the achievements the western made/is making. We had our glory, and we will have the glory again. "No need to prove" is the Chinese way.

  • Posted By: alberta.xy @ 07/29/2008 4:43:04 AM

    To "nowisthetime": I am Chinese too, but your response, which is sensitive, irrational, just verifies the writer's arguments. Instead of saying "Americans are stupid", of course they are not, in general, you should point out what arguments in this article make sense, and what don't. I would argue, for example, the write failed to point out that Chinese are deeply proud of the past history before Opium War. In addition, Chinese assume they should be a supreme power, and this assumption makes us think the western doesn't have the qualification to criticize us. Of course, in wester culture, they don't think they need to qualified to criticize others. In this sense, the writer don't understand confucious well. The conflicts between western and chinese culture won't be resolved by an aritcle, but it doesn't bother me at all. Deep in my heart, I acknowledge the achievements the western made/is making. We had our glory, and we will have the glory again. "No need to prove" is the Chinese way.

  • Posted By: jrosenthol @ 07/29/2008 4:30:33 AM

    Let me see if I get this straight - so the author writes an article that says (quoting a Chinese person!) that Chinese people react irrationally, even hysterically to anything that even resembles criticism.

    And so the message board fills up with Chinese people reacting irrationally, even hysterically to something that that slightly resembles criticism. And they think this proves him wrong?

    Just......wow. Can somebody explain this to me?

  • Posted By: rover81 @ 07/29/2008 2:52:21 AM

    In the endless river of history, our life time is but a blink of eye.
    You know what caused decay of China since late Qin Dynasty?
    Self complacence -- something which dwelling deeply in the minds of American people!

  • Posted By: china perfect @ 07/28/2008 3:26:52 PM

    China is perfect. I wish the whole world was like China. The air is clean and the people are free. There is no censorship. The government sponsors only democracies and helps the downtrodden. Every China man or woman can do whatever he or she wants in life and practice whatever religeon or politics he or she chooses. There is food and freedom for everyone. China is perfect and we should all try to be like China because China is perfect.

    • Posted By: sjbrock80 @ 07/28/2008 4:57:26 PM

      Sounds like you just left one of the communist brainwashing camps...

      • Posted By: China_Daisy @ 07/29/2008 1:59:40 AM

        I think he was just try to be ironic.

    • Posted By: cultusdeus @ 07/28/2008 9:20:22 PM

      What are you, nuts or something? What planet do you come from? The current government is the world's biggest group of bad guys on the planet! You really are nuts!

  • Posted By: dodoaunt @ 07/26/2008 7:50:57 PM

    As a China-born and China-educated Chinese, I believe this article has misinterpreted many aspects of China and the Chinese psyche. For example, what does the concept of "100 years of national humiliation" really means to a Chinese? Does it mean a deep-down and permanent conviction of inferiority in the psychology of the Chinese, who, as a result of the past humiliation, act and react in all irrational, weird and unpredictable ways that only to make them more miserable, as this article suggest, or does it mean something else???

    First, one must understand that China has a long history. China boasts a 5,000-year civilization and the Chinese have record their history month-to-month for almost 3,000 years. On this backdrop, the Chinese consider 100 years is rather a brief period of time for history, during which they stumbled. Admittedly, the past 100 years of history is deeply hurtful to the Chinese. However, it has yet to convince the Chinese that they are inferior, simply because it is too short in a Chinese point of view.

    Then the question remains, if the Chinese are not so convinced, why would they make such a big fuss about the past 100 years? Then, one needs to understand the Chinese culture. To not to forget one???s humiliation is a considered a positive and valued character at one end of the culture, while tolerance is also highly valued at the other end of the culture to curb revenge. This is because the Chinese believe one needs to know ???shame??? as a first step to become a civilized, respectful citizen of the society. Therefore, it is just natural the Chinese emphasize on the shame of the last 100 years: it is their culture and their history.

    China as the only surviving ancient civilization to this date has experience a lot. And today China is undeniably going strong. As evidenced by the effort to hold the Olympic Games, China is trying very hard to understand the world. However, understanding must be mutual to make the world a better place tomorrow.

    • Posted By: jc2000 @ 07/27/2008 9:56:21 AM

      You must be one of the rare species who has a PHD in ancient poet. You can boast however long glory history you have, but it was the past 100 years that put you where you are today. Maybe it's nothing comparing with those 3400 years before it, but its the years when the west grew 100 times and China didn't grow much at all, that's why it has such a huge impact on ordinary Chinese. The author actually got a lot of issues right. It's you that are out of it here.

      • Posted By: Enlightened Soul @ 07/29/2008 1:53:54 AM

        The fact that China suffered deeply by those colonial nations is a powerful reminder that China must rise above all nations at any cost. It's also the story of those bullies who took advantage of others by murdering,robbing,and made a profit with their evil deed. It's no different than the nazis and Japanese during WWII.They are simply criminals! The 5,000 years of history is a powerful backbone for China and Chinese, because the history showed the world that Chinese had contributed greatly to all humanity as a whole through out history. Everyone has benefited till this day! A long history of superior performance means much more than the spur of the moment victory. Without the superior history,China would not have become a super economic power as it is today. As we all know, Chinese was wearing silk when most of the world were running around naked in dirt. The life goes in cycles, and the world belongs to China for...another 5,000 years?!

  • Posted By: brian-seattle @ 07/28/2008 6:06:35 PM

    I have one simple fact to point out. Taiwan is by no means a domestic issue. When one travels to Taiwan you need a VIsa to get into Taiwan, not China. When one sends a package you send it to Taiwan, not China. And the offical governmnet of China is the PRC which has not ever ruled over Taiwan for one second. So this statement is blatantly false and very misleading.
    Brian- Seattle

    • Posted By: China_Daisy @ 07/29/2008 1:52:29 AM

      For your infomration: Taiwan is Republic of China and the mainland is People's Republic of China. Each of them call itself China. When PRC says Taiwan is part of China, it doesn't mean Taiwan is ruled by PRC, but part of "China". Taiwan calls itself "ROC Taiwan District", it indicts that the mainland is the other part of ROC. It is confusing,right? ROC and PRC agreed to respect each other 's way of calling themselves. Someday, I belive the two parts will form one China again.

  • Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 07/27/2008 1:46:23 AM

    China has not done much damage to the world. The Chinese have travelled the globe bringing trade, peace and prosperity. Can the US provide just one incident where China has harm the world with its might? Polution? But who polutted the world first? China is preparing and hosting the olympics while the US is brutalizing the world and is now instigating the Third World War with its missile stationed in the Balkans, pointing towards the enemies - Russia and China.

    I hope that China will be powerful enough to counter the US hegemony with its economy and military. The US is not a super power, it is just a bully.

    • Posted By: markie desade @ 07/29/2008 1:39:18 AM

      You get the Village Idiot Award. The Chinese are responsible for Darfur, (approaching 500,000 people dead by supporting the government), Myanmar (Buyrma, est now over 200,000 people dead from disease), Zimbabwe (collapse of society and economic destruction).

      Don't count on China ever being more powerful. The US has enough missile (and probably so does Taiwan) to nuke China into embers). Go f*ck yourself, eat your dog food and play with your lead toys. I hope one day war breaks out and we can nuke people like you into oblivion. Just check out janesdefense.com if you don't believe me, you as*hole liar and moron. Enter Your Comment

    • Posted By: MeLizzard2 @ 07/27/2008 3:28:10 PM

      Those are DEFENSIVE missiles, genius. They're not meant to START a war with anyone.

  • Posted By: creekprecious @ 07/27/2008 2:52:54 AM

    Under the surface of high modernization and industrialization, China in fact needs much more amelioration in both action and mind. Not all Chinese could reach the moral standard, nor could they act as civil citizens.
    In one word, to China, there is still a long way to go.

    • Posted By: TheMiddlePath @ 07/27/2008 7:52:29 PM

      Yes, China indeed has a long way to go. China needs to start bombing small helpless countries, start boycotting countries that do not support their interest, start to sanctioning small countries and start to operate military bases all over the world. Yes a very long way to go.

      • Posted By: markie desade @ 07/29/2008 1:31:28 AM

        Why are you bringging up the Soviet Union?

  • Posted By: suki1989 @ 07/29/2008 1:28:46 AM

    china is not a young ,simple nation as the US, his history ,culture can't be understanded ,especially some guys like you, so please do not act as if you are a expert of china, ,please do not make any judgement unless you've lived in china more than 20years

  • Posted By: markie desade @ 07/29/2008 1:25:31 AM

    "we tend to forget just how deeply implicated we are in how China came to experience and view the modern world."

    What? I don't have anything to do with how Chinese act. That's their problem. If they need some collective coddling, they aren't ready for greatness. That comes from overcomming obstacles, not having them artificially removed. No one cares what your past is; they want to know what you're doing know. Life is too short.

  • Posted By: markie desade @ 07/29/2008 1:23:04 AM

    "we tend to forget just how deeply implicated we are in how China came to experience and view the modern world."

    What? I don't have anything to do with how Chinese act. That's their problem. If they need some collective coddling, they aren't ready for greatness. That comes from overcomming obstacles, not having them artificially removed. No one cares what your past is; they want to know what you're doing know. Life is too short.

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse