Pedal vs. Metal

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  • Posted By: Redfan @ 07/29/2008 12:47:30 PM

    Basically all modes of transport that occupy the roadways should have lights and plates. Everyone should adhere to the traffic laws, and cyclists should stay in bike only lanes. If people did this the problems would disappear, and the injuries to cyclists would be down. People need to realize that they aren't special because they drive a car or a bike and just obey the law. Cycliosts should also get a license and insurance to ride on the streets and be subject to traffic tickets the same as everyone. Just grow up.

    • Posted By: JimLamb @ 07/30/2008 9:53:16 AM

      Motorists need to be licensed because they are killing tens of thousands of people every year, far more than are killed by handguns. Getting killed in a car accident is, in fact, the #1 cause of death for Americans under the age of 40. Cyclists may annoy you and may even delay you a few seconds here and there, but they aren't aren't killing anyone.

  • Posted By: ggpolk @ 07/30/2008 9:51:13 AM

    I spend a lot of time on the road, both on a road bike and behind the wheel. Most people fall into one of three categories while sharing the road with cyclist.

    1. Blind Drivers: Because of age and/or distractions, this driver will nearly clip you while passing with no visible sign they even noticed you. They're the same ones you have to watch making turns in your pathway.
    Sadly, they can be as dangerous as the next group.

    2. Road Rage Drivers: In their mind, you have no right to be on the road and they'll make sure you know it. They're the most dangerous ones out there, but thankfully they belong to a smaller group than the rest.

    3. Average Drivers: They're not perfect and make mistakes like the rest of us, but largely have no trouble sharing the road and deserve some slack when problems do arrise. The largest group by far and growing every day.

    Whether a driver or rider on the road, there will always be situations that could have gone better by simply paying attention, controlling anger and/or just being a little nicer to others while you pedal or drive.

  • Posted By: wishfulthinker @ 07/29/2008 2:24:15 PM

    I can't help but to think of that as being "polite" theives. To think that as long as you are polite and follow the rules you can get away with using the roads with no financial responsibilities. My point has very little to do with the rage issue. Bicyclist get the use of the roads that were built for cars at no expense and very little responsibility.

    • Posted By: JimLamb @ 07/30/2008 9:43:29 AM

      Your argument is ridiculous on multiple levels. The majority of cyclists own cars as well that they pay taxes on. Also, most of the funding for your transportation infrastructure comes from property taxes, not from vehicle-related fees. The wear and tear inflicted on the road by a cyclist is negligible when compared to a car or light truck.

      Lastly, the health benefits of regular cardiovascular exercise (like cycling) are proven to reduce long term health care costs. We have an obesity epidemic in this country that we will be paying billions for in the decades to come.

    • Posted By: jath123 @ 07/30/2008 7:14:19 AM

      Yeah but the cyclists don't really need the 4-lane rebar-reinforced roadway with expensive traffic control systems. They could get by with an 8-ft wide crushed limestone or thin top asphalt trail that costs 1% of what a road costs. Plus, the wear and tear of a road is directly proportional to vehicle weight, meaning that a bike creates practically none. So if cyclists ever do pay a roadway tax, it should be logically much less than what motorists pay.

      OK, so now how do we get those damn pedestrians to pay for the sidewalks? Shoe tax? Damn criminals... ; )

  • Posted By: pdx57 @ 07/29/2008 2:40:00 PM

    There are two very different sides to this story. As a cyclist and a driver, I've gained perspective from both sides. The important thing here is to demonstrate a little understanding toward our fellow road users. No need to take sides. Rage is the issue here. Calm down, Portland and use common sense on the road...whether you're on two wheels or four.

  • Posted By: good conscience @ 07/29/2008 3:35:40 PM

    I personally would hit a brick wall, a huge tree, or wrap my car around a light pole before I would ever hit a cyclist. However, they must be aware that first and foremost, the roads are for cars. If they think it's ok to ride on car roads, that is the chance they take. There are, in countless instances, perfectly good and much safer sidewalks for cyclists to ride. My big peeve are those who deliberately challenge drivers by riding down the middle of the lane and hold all the traffic up behind them. These are the ones who are true ***holes, and they should not wonder why motorists get so frustrated. I think it's up to the cyclist to get out of the way, to stop if need be, to wait for all cars to pass, then resume their pedaling on our roads. It's not an easy predicament, but the cyclists need to understand that they are second fiddle to cars. Period.

    • Posted By: JimLamb @ 07/30/2008 9:37:06 AM

      OK. You are fundamentally wrong, wrong, wrong. Roads are not primarily for cars. Cars, trucks, tractors, bikes, motorcycles, etc. all have equal rights to all roads but interstates with fully controlled access. If you want special privileges in your car then stick to the interstates. Just because the traffic ahead of you is moving more slowly doesn't give you an absolute right to pass under any and all circumstances. Pass when it is safe to do so and remember that the traffic (and, yes, this includes cyclists) ahead of you has the right of way.

    • Posted By: MoJabar @ 07/29/2008 4:41:14 PM

      Also, : All of the following types should be made to drive on the sidewalk too, as each disgusts me in a different way: teenagers driving while text-ing, the overweight to obese types stuffing faces with Cinnabon or BigMacs while driving, lovers of booming bass rap music, ladies applying makeup in the rearview mirror, the elderly doing any number of puzzling things behind the wheel; monster trucks with suspension kits, smokers lighting up at 60mph and using the world as their astray.

      • Posted By: bigjt3 @ 07/29/2008 9:53:15 PM

        moja bars are dangerous and illegal in 37 states. if we can't stop the proliferation of these obscene gay strip bars, we are surely doomed as a society. when these flaming "moja" go flying by on these devil machines with pedals, one is provoked to anger. i say ban all these pedaling mojas in your town today!

    • Posted By: kenji@obra.org @ 07/29/2008 4:37:52 PM

      I do agree with you that cyclists that take up the entire road are inconsiderate- but no more inconsiderate than a driver that drives 25 in a 35 mph zone. That said, most groups will attempt to move to the right to allow cars to go around. Roll down your window and listen to the group, if you hear them yelling "car back", that means that the folks in the rear are attempting to tell the riders further up to move over.

      Remember to pass in a safe area- killing someone over saving 30 seconds of commute time isn't worth it. Not only are you facing jail-time, you are facing losing your car and your home. People forget the civil litigation that will surely follow.

      However, your assertion that cyclists play "second fiddle to cars. Period" is incorrect, at least in Oregon. According to ORS (Oregon Revised Statues) 814.400 "Every person riding a bicycle upon a public way is subject to the provisions applicable to and has the same rights and duties as the driver of any other vehicle concerning operating on highways, vehicle equipment and abandoned vehicles..." Furthermore, taking your logic to its conclusion, then motorcycles, mopeds and/or farm equipment must play second fiddle to cars.

    • Posted By: MoJabar @ 07/29/2008 4:25:06 PM

      Sometimes the bike must take the lane if there is a line of parked cars on the right and not enough room to share the lane. If I'm riding at 20mph, I don't want one of those driver's car door to open up and cause me to wreck. Another place a bike may take the entire lane is when he is moving fast and doesn't want to be wrecked into by a car who thinks that he can make a right hand turn in front of the biker, taking the lane prevents that. There are safety reasons a cyclist must takes the whole lane. Have you ever considered this?

  • Posted By: Chipperback @ 07/29/2008 6:08:28 PM

    I own a car and I own bicycle. I use both to get around and I use them responsibly. As a bike commuter it irks me to see so many bicyclists who don't wear helmets ESPECIALLY KIDS! I think people who are riding helmetless need to get tickets. I have no problem with lights, etc. either.
    I also don't like seeing careless riding. Being on a bike more I'm sensitive to it when I drive my car. At the same time, we are motorists also need to realize that we have to be aware and realize we have to share the road. With power comes responsibity. Our cars are more powerful thus our responsibility is greater.

    Now I've notice the complaints about "cyclists don't pay road taxes". Its nonsense. We are pay road taxes. I sure as sin do because I also own a vehicle and have to have it registered, etc. But here's an idea. Rather than build some goofy licensing scheme that is more bureaucracy. Here' s an easy to pay our "fair share" Just put a 1% tax on bicycles, bike helmets, cycling jerseys, the tight biker shorts, pedals, pedal clips, cycling shoes, bike light kits, bike bags, etc. and put the money towards maintaining bike paths, bike lanes and bicycle enforcement. Given how much a good bike cost, and how many people want bikes now...You'll have the money for it. Also we need to better codify the laws for all concerned. When you clairfy it and make people aware, you have the means to enforce it.
    Where I live there are jackasses in cars and jackasses on bike, but I've found them to be 1% of the populace. Most people get along and play well with others because most people are adult enough to realize that in the long run you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

    • Posted By: JimLamb @ 07/30/2008 9:33:41 AM

      I think your heart's in the right place, but I don't think additional legislation or taxes is the solution. Cyclists can wear helmets or not. Personally, I choose to because I see very little downside to it. In reality, your just as likely to sustain a fatal head injury while driving your car. So, if you're going tor require helmets for cyclists, you'll need to require them for motorists as well. The main problem is enforcement. If you start pulling over cyclists to cite them for not wearing helmets you may likely be putting them more at risk than if you just let them ride on.

      We don't need a special cycling tax. Existing property taxes (which make up the majority of the funding for transportation projects) are more than adequate to cover both motorists and cyclists infrastructural needs. We shouldn't be creating economic disincentives to discourage people from cycling rather than driving - quite the opposite.

  • Posted By: bikeshoplady @ 07/30/2008 12:55:46 AM

    I've been an avid cyclist for over 20 years. In the tens of thousands of miles I've logged, I've not been involved in an accident with a car. Here's the problem as I see it. In the last 5-10 years the roads have become increasingly populated by self absorbed, knuckle-headed troglodytes who have no regard for the rules of the road or the human lives around them. You will find them operating cars and bicycles. I have experienced as many near misses with cars while on my bike as I have with bikes while driving in my car.

    • Posted By: JimLamb @ 07/30/2008 9:27:08 AM

      You have hit the nail on the proverbial head.

    • Posted By: JimLamb @ 07/30/2008 9:26:18 AM

      bikeshoplady, you hit the nail on the proverbial head. Having logged several thousand miles cycling myself, I completely agree. I think the only solution is a long term one based on building awareness, educating road users (both motorists and cyclists) and getting our best and brightest more involved in transportation infrastructure planning.

  • Posted By: crankmychain @ 07/30/2008 1:07:20 AM

    This story and link has caused a ton of hits on the "biker on hood of road rager" video that I didn't shoot but posted at YouTube. You can watch my response and rough version of a new song called "Road Rage" here http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6Vt3v45nWU

  • Posted By: LikesToRide @ 07/29/2008 7:44:28 PM

    Well, this has been quite a discussion. I have seen both sides in action, and it just comes down to simple old common sense and common courtesy. That is a problem world wide, not just in the United States, as some have indicated. I do not ride my bike anywhere anymore. It scares me. But I do not ride my horse near traffic for the same reason. Inconsiderate people. When I have attempted to educate bike riders about alerting horseback riders when they are approaching from behind, I get the middle finger and called a nasty name, EVERY SINGLE TIME!! That has been on the street and on the trails. And I am not being rude, or calling names, I just ask for them to please holler a warning when they are coming from behind, and to slow down. As for cars, the same applies, but I usually had to shout because they were moving too fast to hear. I have had cars honk at me right as they get to me, and I can only guess it is to see if my horse will dump me, so I am sure that happens even more so for bicycle riders. I really don't know if people understand how easily it is to die. Bikes, pedestrians, and horses, are no match for cars, and will lose the argument every time. One can say "I was right" all the way to the morgue. Is it worth it? Just be better stewards of our freedoms. Bike riders, pay attention and look out for yourselves. Why are you letting your life depend on others to see you and notice you?? Be proactive about your own safety. Drivers, SLOW DOWN!! Just take a breath and get over yourselves. You are not the only one on the road, get used to it. And everyone, let someone educate you on your mistakes. It is OK, you are not going to die for listening, and you might actually learn something. I think this is really about finding our manners again, and depending on ourselves for our own safety, not so much car vs. bike.

  • Posted By: cleoj @ 07/29/2008 5:19:25 PM

    Pedestrians also must watch out for cyclists in addition to motorists now. The other day the crosswalk light went on so I started to cross the street, and almost got mowed over by a guy on a bicycle who was turning right and should have yielded to pedestrians. You think bicyclists have little protection, pedestrians have even less.

  • Posted By: kenji@obra.org @ 07/29/2008 3:26:32 PM

    This "pedal vs. metal" or "war" has gotten a little out of hand. Newsweek and other media outlets need to stop sensationalizing this entire matter. It is not as bad as the media seems to make it. You look at the statistics these interactions are in the minority. You'll always have a percentage of the population that acts like jerks- be it on bikes or in cars. That's a fact of life. These sort of poorly researched articles feed into the confrontational attitudes.

    T. Kenji Sugahara
    Executive Director
    Oregon Bicycle Racing Association

    • Posted By: BigDenver @ 07/29/2008 3:51:19 PM

      Kenji, I sincerely hope that you are right along side of me in saying I always obey all traffic laws while cycling....yes stopping or yeilding means I must face an inconvience....so what I am out there for fun and exercise so be it.....in Denver we do have a problem as many of our cyclist do not stop at stop signs, red lights, or yield to pedx.....I certainly do and encourage all to do the right thing and take the laws seriously.

      • Posted By: kenji@obra.org @ 07/29/2008 4:21:29 PM

        BD- Absolutely- and I encourage all bikers to do the same. For us, it's absolutely critical as riders are not only representing our organization, but their own sponsors.

  • Posted By: wagontire @ 07/29/2008 3:01:36 PM

    Separating cyclists from vehicular traffic is a great idea, and many bike paths have been created to achieve this goal. A lifelong cyclist myself, I was excited years ago when plans were put in action to build bike paths around the city. The idea was fantastic, but it is a different reality. On many bike paths, cyclist have been discouraged from using them because the paths are overrun with skaters, hikers, walkers, dogs on and off leash, people sitting in lawn chairs and others whose activities are clearly not biking. I have even found the bike path blocked by people enjoying a picnic that completely blocked the path. I had to get off my bike and carry it overhead while the picnickers glared at me for intruding. While the roads are not safe for bikers, off-duty motorists set up camp on the bike paths and show their disdain to bikers while exhibiting incredible stupidity. It is this kind of stupidity that hospitalized me in 2002 when its practitioner hit me and ran with his Subaru in Portland, Oregon. No, I do not run traffic lights and stop signs. I observe the rules of traffic. I do not ride two abreast. I do not yell at idiots in cars. I do not throw soft drinks, beer, coffee and cigarette butts at motorists. I am a decent highway citizen who has experienced far too much aggressive stupidity from the motoring public, most of whom are also decent and civil. But there are far too many aggressive, angry drivers who wield the power that is in their automobile as a weapon against the more vulnerable who must share the road with them.

  • Posted By: wagontire @ 07/29/2008 2:58:25 PM

    Separating cyclists from vehicular traffic is a great idea, and many bike paths have been created to achieve this goal. A lifelong cyclist myself, I was excited years ago when plans were put in action to build bike paths around the city. The idea was fantastic, but it is a different reality. On many bike paths, cyclist have been discouraged from using them because the paths are overrun with skaters, hikers, walkers, dogs on and off leash, people sitting in lawn chairs and others whose activities are clearly not biking. I have even found the bike path blocked by people enjoying a picnic that completely blocked the path. I had to get off my bike and carry it overhead while the picnickers glared at me for intruding. While the roads are not safe for bikers, off-duty motorists set up camp on the bike paths and show their disdain to bikers while exhibiting incredible stupidity. It is this kind of stupidity that hospitalized me in 2002 when its practitioner hit me and ran with his Subaru in Portland, Oregon. No, I do not run traffic lights and stop signs. I observe the rules of traffic. I do not ride two abreast. I do not yell at idiots in cars. I do not throw soft drinks, beer, coffee and cigarette butts at motorists. I am a decent highway citizen who has experienced far too much aggressive stupidity from the motoring public, most of whom are also decent and civil. But there are far too many aggressive, angry drivers who wield the power that is in their automobile as a weapon against the more vulnerable who must share the road with them.

  • Posted By: BigDenver @ 07/29/2008 2:35:18 PM

    wishfulthinker - I drive a vehicle and cycle....I have no problem paying a road use tax or somethig similr....ok with me and hopefull all other cyclist would also agree....if you have 2 vehicles you pay twice so a vehicle and a bike you shouold also pay twice.....I AGREE! But I also want my fellow cyclist to obey all laws and be respectful.....stay to the right when in traffic and use bike paths when available....even if you have to go a few miles out of the way it is good for us!

  • Posted By: DamnRock @ 07/29/2008 11:52:46 AM

    Responsible cyclists wear helmets and observe/obey the rules of the road. It is that simple. The main argument here it seems is how cyclists should obey the laws and stop at lights/stop signs... but then people complain when a cyclist takes up the entire lane? How can you expect them to obey some laws but not get full use of the other laws? Technically a CAR is lane splitting if he passes a cyclist w/o crossing the lane dividing line. Cyclists in my area tend to take most of the lane simply because it forces the driver to pass a cyclist just as they would pass a motorcycle or another car... by waiting until a safe opportunity, moving into the next lane and passing. If cars see a gap and think they can "squeeze by"... that's just asking for trouble. What if the car squeezes by too close and at that moment the cyclist has to swerve a bit for road debris? I have personally had an 18-wheeler pass me so close I would estimate his trailer to have been 12" off my elbow. Oh and road debris? Try driving your car in the median or shoulder for a few miles and tell me how your tires look afterwards, if they even hold air... then imagine a cyclist tire and 5 times the PSI but a fraction of the thickness in rubber... then tell me to ride on the shoulder? For the record, I obey all laws when on the roads in my area, which DO entitle me to the same rights as a motor vehicle. I ride ON the line most of the time, to give cars plenty of space to pass... but I won't ride in the shoulder as there is just too much debris. I stop at stop signs and stop lights like a vehicle. And yes it's a bit of a hassle to unclip my feet to stop and then I've received the occasional honk for taking a second to get clipped back in to get going again... but I can live with that. I think a big part of keeping people safe is going to fall into the hands of the cycling community. Cyclists need to take new cyclists under their wing and provide them with the knowledge they need to be considerate, safe riders. Some guy yelling "Hey Nice Helmet!" from his car as he speeds by too closely is NOT going to make a good impression on the rider... but a fellow rider saying "hey, you should really consider getting a helmet and light for your bike, as it makes things safer for everyone involved." will be taken much more to heart, I'm guessing. But that's just my 2cents. Rock

  • Posted By: BigDenver @ 07/29/2008 1:56:12 PM

    To bikeliv2....Sounds like you bike even more than me.....I think it is up to people like you and I to police our sport.....There are bad drivers, runners, walkers ans bikers....help all bikers by encouraging all to obey the traffic laws 100% of the time. Yes it is inconcient to stop rather than slowly glide thru an intersection but it is the law if the light is red or there is a stop sing...I do it everytime and hopfully you do also....help me educate our fellow riders that it is the right thing to do and encourage them to always respect all others rights and hopefully we will all get along sharing the roads.

  • Posted By: cjaneway @ 07/29/2008 11:49:51 AM

    Wow, I'm amazed at the vitriol in these comments. I bike and I drive. I bet most bikers also drive, and many drivers sometimes bike. So be honest: haven't you been just as frequently frustrated by jerks in cars cutting you off in traffic, going to slow on a freeway onramp, failing to signal, etc., etc., as you have been by similar behavior from a cyclist? The likelihood is that the rude bikers and the rude drivers are the same people -- or share a similar mentality. We all need to adopt a little humility, recognize that there are others on the road, and drive safely whether in a car or on a bike. Let's work together folks!

    • Posted By: In2it @ 07/29/2008 12:13:11 PM

      It is the suddenness and absentmindedness -- and ultimately the larger safety issue -- of slow going bikers on the road. Sorry, but as drivers, we all have reasonable expectations of getting from point A to point B within a certain amount of time -- barring the unforeseen. Cyclists are not the "unforeseen" and as a rule, rather, they slow traffic beyond reasonable expectations. Those that linger in traffic create a greater safety hazard as traffic slows. Yes this is a subject that appears to have created much angst and anger from the tenor of responses so far, but you have to admit that almost to a (driver) the sentiment is nearly unanimous!

      • Posted By: cjaneway @ 07/29/2008 1:10:58 PM

        I hear you that it can be frustrating when driving to slow down for a few minutes to get by a cyclist on the road. However I have been delayed far more frequently and for much longer by traffic jams caused by fellow car drivers, or by RVs and trailers and trucks going slow on two-lane roads. We have to deal with many frustrations in life, unfortunately, but patience and some understanding for the other guy can make things better for everyone.

        • Posted By: socampbell @ 07/29/2008 1:48:07 PM

          My frustration with bikes is partly due to the fear that I will kill them if they do something unexpected (cut me off, run a red light in front of me, hit a pothole and fall as I swing wide to pass...) Bikes require us to be even more alert than normal. Knowing that bikes will follow the rules of the road takes out many of the unknowns and eases some of the frustration so that the rest of us are more patient with bikers who are obeying the laws.

  • Posted By: bikeliv2 @ 07/29/2008 1:45:29 PM

    After having used a bike a the major form of getting around for the last 25 years it has become quite clear to me that bikes vs cars are a huge issue that we must deal with. It is only going to get worse with people leaving their cars to save money / sanity. Bikes are really a much more efficent way to get around, but most car drivers don't really respect bikers at all. I've only had a few close calls - mostly by bad drivers or bad conditions on the road. It would be best to have seperate road ways for cyclist - shutting off the inner cities to cars and reserve them for peds and bikes. Cars are the most efficent for long trips - more than 20 miles or so - but a really well designed public transport would trump the car even for this. I really see the car as the 20th century type of transportation - inefficent, polluting, selfish, and really a coffin on wheels. The bike is about freedom, individuality, community, beautiful and just plain efficent. When you realize that almost 60,000 people a year die in the car versus less than a 1,000 by bike then you have to question the true cost of the car. Is not the car infrastructure killing us but it is a way of life that is really a form of slavery. We are a nation that worships a big rolling metal coffin - "cars are coffins" baby. Just a little insight - ride safe and take care.

  • Posted By: MartyHough @ 07/29/2008 1:32:21 PM

    To those of you opposed to a tag and license for a cyclists, I never implied it would be expensive. The entire program could be administered for less than 25 dollars per person, per YEAR. By cycling, you'll be saving far more than that in fuel costs, not to mention the savings from an auto tag and maintenance costs for the vehicle. Too, under this system you'll be ensuring that, after certification, each rider knows the laws. Beyond that, let the rogue riders be held accountable with traffic citations. Sadly, when money is tight due to soaring living costs, the only thing some understand is when their actions keep costing them money for fines.

  • Posted By: slebahn @ 07/29/2008 1:32:00 PM

    You need to check the specifics of you coverage, but personal liability coverage on your renters/homeowners insurance can protect you against claims for injuries or damage you cause in a bicycle accident.

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