AS FOR OBAMA, HE IS A LIBERAL AND I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM. MCCAIN IS NO GOOD EITHER. I LIKE RON PAUL. UNFORTUNATELY THOUGH WE HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE LESSER EVILS OF THE TWO. WELL, THEY'RE BOTH EVIL, BUT I BELIEVE MCCAIN IS LESS LIBERAL THAN OBAMA.
I agree about the lesser of two evils. But the more I have been researching McCain I am finding he is not just another BUSH. So dont listen to that mantra Obama supporters toot. Same with the McCain is too old mantra. He has a good bill of health for a man his age, a mother who is still alive and kicking at 96 (longevity is a plus). He has even hiked all around the Grand Canyon with his sons last summer. I voted for Hillary in the primaries and at this point I am leaning to mcCain as my lesser of two evils. : - )
If you dont want to vote for the lesser of two evis why not just write in your vote. It is legal according to the constitution you can vote for who ever you want you dont have to vote for the lesser of two evils. If your going to vote for the lesser of two evils as you say you might as well not vote because you being supporting something you dont really believe in. The super rich will always make it so you have to choose between there choices and accept the lesser of two evils they present to you. You don't have to participate in there sharade. Follow the money then speak out and if your going to vote at least follow your own good sense and write in who you believe is the best choice.
A write in vote is not a viable option for five states. OK is one of those five states. I think WV is another. What options do the registered voters in those states have? Libertarian candidates do not appear on OK ballots.
A couply years ago, a woman from Tennessee came up to me in front of the American Church in Paris--and in the course of the conversation, told me she was a proud daughter of the confederacy. She, also, told me that her parents and their friends in Tennessee were racists who don't believe African Americans are fully human. Her husband is French--and she's lived in French for nearly ten years. She said she realizes that she is as racist as her parents, but that she knows it is wrong--and is teaching her children that all people are equal. She told me all of this because she wanted me to know the South has not changed--that the old prejudices run deep, but that white southerners know better than to express their biases publicly. The bizarre thing is that I am African American, from a family that was free in 18th century New England--moving to Pennsylvania in the 1790, as free people. I am a member of the American Church in Paris, as this woman is, and she'd heard me speak during a meeting that day--and so came up to me. I felt that she was confessing and asking me to absolve her of her racism. Instead, I told her if her parents actually believed that African Americans were not fully human, her parents were psychologically disturbed--because racism is a psychological disease that damages both the one who is hated and the one who hates--and the country they share.
What and excellent post. Some one on one of the Baen's Bar forums said that many people, I think he said elitist, have not self-examined their racism. I finally admitted to myself, before Katrina, that yes, I am racist, although I've never ever believed that African-Americans are less than human beings. Once I finally sat down and asked my self why I was still afraid of being the only white customer in an Eckerd's drugstore in Metairie, LA, I finally acknowledged that it all boiled down to basic instinctual psychological fears of the stranger and the unknown, and that was pretty silly. Unfortunately, I still have a few stubborn dregs stuck at the bottom of the pot after most of the coffee fears have boiled off or evaporated. Until very recently, I look at mixed couples where the female is white, and I still wonder if I have the courage to marry an African American. I'm 1/16 Cherokee. I suppose and hope that it will depend upon the individual man, not the color of his skin.
The election process proves one thing. Both parties are pathetic. Both candidates would sell their soul to the devil if it means votes. Neither will get their agenda put forth. We need a third party. The Republicans and the Democrats are both obselete.
The USA already has three national political parities, Republican, Democratic, and Southern Democratic. W. understands that lesson very well. When I lived in LA. I was registered as a Democrat. In 1971, there was no viable Republican party anywhere in LA. In OK I registered as an independent. I was pretty politically apathetic , and very confused about politics outside of LA. I didn't vote in the 2000 presidential election at all, so I had to re-register to vote in 2004. It took a trip home to New Orleans to figure out that it didn't matter which party I declared, what really mattered is that I declare a party affiliation so I'd be able to vote in primary elections. I became a Republican. Personally, I'm' morally very conservative, but socially I'm liberal. So what? I suspect many registered Oklahomans are ideologically independent. My mother was an FDR Democrat, The Democratic party of FDR, JFK, and LBJ was transformed by the Viet Nam war. If middle age activated me politically somewhat, Katrina has activated me completely.
I am a Southerner by birth (S.C.) who currently lives in Florida. I could not vote for Obama not because he is black, but because his views and mine do not clicl on issues of the day. I could vote for any number of other black men who share my beliefs: Alan Keyes, J.C. Watts, Michael Steele, etc. Obama's views are too liberal and not in line with my thinking nor of many of my friends. He does not have the experience either. He has not been in the Senate for long enough, and when he was in the Illinois legislature, he voted on a bill that would permit partial birth abortion. He is not pro-life, which I am. So many of his ideas about taxation would ruin this country. So if he loses, he has only himself to blame for his views on current issues. Not his being black.
The article seems to be centered on whether white people will vote for a black man. I am a Southerner by birth (S.C.) but presently living in Florida. I don't plan to vote for Obama, but not because he is a black man. I would proudly vote for a number of black men: Alan Keyes, J.C. Watts, Michael Steele, who have the same values and political leanings that I have. So it is because of his liberal values and inexperience that I could not vote for Obama. He has not been in the Senate long enough, and when he was in the Legialature in Illinois, he voted in ways that do not attract me. He voted for partial birth abortion and he is not pro'-life. So he will only have himself to blame if he loses as most people do not favor many of his positions. Being black makes no difference.
Really how can the audience affect what the puppet masters do. Not continue to support there production thier play. To tell everyone they can to not support their production their play. If you want another option why not go to another play or dont support the current one at least. Politicians are aware of the injustices going on but likely they feel helpless to stop it so they do what they can no doubt. It would take everyone everywhere becoming aware of the real problem to make a difference. The problem with that is it would have to be by word of mouth and people have come to trust what they read in the media more than what their neighbor tells them. The major media is big business which has come under the control by the puppet master's.
The puppet masters have taken over the whole world. And all you can do is become informed and then speak out about it to reveal them and there moves lifting hands, kicking out legs, knocking down the other puppets in this play they have created to make you think you should do this or should do that to fix the problems when the real problem is those who pull the strings.
One of the main reasons why the rest of the country has some semblence of bitterness to the south during this election time, even more so than usual, can be summed in this way:
The rest of us are just asking: when will you learn your lesson? In 2000 the south overwhelmingly voted in George W. Bush, who proceeded in running with the propaganda he created until that lost steam by late 2003-2004. Then again, many implored that we not make the same mistake for the next election and have someone more competent in office (keep in mind, this was after the many, many blunders publically as well as in policy, that had already occurred with GWB and the republican congress). Once again, we were shown that the overwhleming majority of the south went again with confidence on what can only be termed as their vision of a demigogue.
Now, we have McCain, someone who once 'straight-talked' and once had the good sense to take 'the high road' in some policies, gaining him respect and credibility; however, that seems to be leaving quickly as he aligns himself so blindly, and changes his persona from someone intelligent and honorable to something much less in his vagueness and flippant attacks. He seems to be falling in line with none other than Bush himself on everything.
So now, a large portion of the rest of the country (while themselves DIVIDED by this new brand of campainging and partisanship that truly emphasizes insults and division) asks the south: haven't you learned your lesson yet?? How far do we have to fall for the last intelligent voter to use that intelligence instead of their emotions and prejudices?
Apparently, we are quite the masochistic country, aren't we?
Rapidiron. You are so stupid. Yes, the South went for Bush in 2000 and 2004. This is only because the Dems had to give us such pathetic candidates. In 1992 and 1996, some Southern states voted for Clinton. A moderate can be accepted in the South, but a liberal idealogue is less likely to make it. There are many good Dems who would be a great candidate for President. Evan Byah, Harold Ford, and Hillary Clinton are more moderate than Obama. You have to be a moderate to get things done. I realize that this is a complex task for your rather simple mind to comprehend. Now, go get your mommy to write another post for you and try to stay away from sharp objects.
Nice insults. That's okay though, since a small portion in the middle of those actually had some content.
What about 2004-2008 as well? I understand that you thought those candidates were weak, but weakness is an opinion. Since Bush's terms and policies have been so failing, and McCain seems to be following suit, does this not make him seem like a weak candidate then?
That's exactly how it looks to a great deal of people, though the article suggests that the opinion still will not change. Someone had asked in a post below why southerners are bashed, and I'm speculating that one big reason is that people elsewhere raise the question: why do you still vote toward a candidate that is now so closely aligned with an administration that has caused the U.S. so much damage?
It isn't a question of "learning our lesson" rapidiron. No one knew what a NEO conservative was in 2000, and barely started cluing in around 2004. What the South wants is a REAL conservative, i.e. someone who will enforce immigration law, lower taxes, stop fooling around overseas, bomb 'em when you have to but forget this nation building business. They want someone that respects the Constitution and personal privacy. Torture is not conservatism. Domestic spying is not conservatism. Southerners are frustrated because in 2004 and now 2008 we've been two wrong choices.
Nice post. I'm sorry for generalizing in the way that I had. Please chalk it up to frustration as well.
That is an oversimplification. Florida is a purple state, that would have easily gone blue with Hillary as the nominee
Keep dreaming News
Unfortunately, it is inconsequential
Don't call your own thoughts inconsequential after you've already made a post of it, lol...
There is nothing wrong with making an observation if it is not consequential.
More liberal lies. We don't want Obama, we never will want Obama. And NOT because of race. He's a liar. Look at his real background, and not the lies he spews forth every time he opens his mouth. Just like ALL democrats. But you'll never admit that. That wouldn't sell him like you hope to.
This is the height of hypocrisy. Which is my main problem with the republican party. Your man McCain is a liar, and Bush's lies have already been proven. You in the South will NOT learn your lesson, as rapidiron suggests. This is due to the simple fact that your IGNORANT!
That statement is ignorant.
Know the difference between Ignorant and Stupid. You might have to consult a dictionary.
Categorizing all Southerners is ignorant. Telling me to go to a dictionary is dismissive
You seem to be trolling.
No, I'm responding to trollers
He is saying that he thinks McCain has lied as has Bush in some very glaring ways, and he can't undestand why people would still support them so fully. Why is this addressed with a simple comment as 'ignorant'? Hence the trolling comment.
Not all southerners are ignorant!!! In fact some of us even completed High school
Some are their own worst enemy. Some put the wheels on their homes all by themselves by supporting politics and not ideas. I would never walk up to a minority and say "but it's not your race" because if I did say something as stupid as that, I'd be lying.
ALL democrats? You were starting to make a valid point until the generalizations and insults came out. Many democrats and liberals are wary of Obama because of his lack of experience and his arrogance
Obama is no more arrogant than any other politician, certainly not more arrogant that sniper fire dodging HRC.
HRC is not arrogant, and she is not a presidential candidate any more. The sniper thing is a cheap shot. Personally her embellishment about sniper fire lead to the repeated showing of her successful Bosnia mission, which made me very proud of her.
Embellishment? OK, so how many times can one embellish before that embellishment becomes a lie?
Clinton "EMBELLISHED" during 3 different events and MSNBC read a quote from her book that she wrote years ago in which she again, as you stated "EMBELLISHED" about Bosnia sniper fire.
I didn't bring it up, and I don;t see how bringing it up helps Obama. Do Obama supporters want Hillary supporters to vote for Obama or not? If you want to call it a lie, go right ahead. There were several out right lies Obama told during the primary, but I am not resurrecting those unless it is in response to those who bring up the Bosnia event.
Honestly News,
I really do not personally worry about who votes for whom, that is an individual decision. I post that I do not understand Clinton supporters voting for McCain because of who he is. I just watched one of Obama's ads about McCain in which McCain himself states that he has voted 90 or 95 % the same as Bush.
That is really the only question that I have ever had for Clinton supporters. Other than that if you, not you personally, support McCain, then support McCain. It really matters not to me as I am only able to control my actions. Everyone has to deal with their own concience.
Like republicans are never lied to you? How about promising to lower your taxes, but only lowered taxes of the rich?
To Democrats, everyone is "rich", including the middle class, and therein is the problem.
You know, if it weren't for Republicans, Democrats wouldn't have a friggin dime. What would they do, tax themselves? :D This is what needs to be addressed : the fact that Democrats NEED poverty to justify themselves. Why can't we have a system where people are rewarded in proportion to their contribution? It wouldn't be 'fair' by some measures, but at least you'd have a system where competent people are approximately where they ought to be.
As someone who lived up North while I was in the Air Force, I believe I can make the generalization about "Yankees" because they called me a "hick, rube, redneck, backwards ass, cracker, etc." all because I was from Tennessee.
I do believe that Obama has a chance since my parents, sister, and I will all be voting for him. However, since stereotypes are made about us (Southerners), I believe what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Sorry you had an unpleasant experience with Northerners. I'm wary of Obama becuase, in my opinion, he doesn;t have enough experience, and he seems to be arrogant
Arrogant, or confident?
Or perhaps uppity? I know you and others have not used the word, but seriously...
Nice shot at race baiting. That is an ugly tactic unworthy of a response
And sadly typical of this poster...
Why does your assessment of Obama have to be arrogant? How can you judge arrogance versus confidence? This says something...
Why wouldn't you say McCain is arrogant? He is insulting voter intelligence with lines that have nothing to do with the issues, to sway to minds and hearts of people. Does this not make him arrogant, then?
He is no more arrogant than any other politician.
He is running for the highest office in the land, so I tend not to compare him to other politicians
Gosh, and George Bush is such a humble kinda guy. With SO MUCH experience dodging the draft, running businesses into the ground -- oh, and our country too.
I wasn't comparing Obama to W
There is a link to an article from a soldier about Obama snubbing soldiers in Afghanistan being posted on the Newsweek sites;.
Link to that "LETTER" http://www.osamaforobama08.com/articles/soldiersletter.html
Well that soldier has since recanted and has stated that the information in his letter was wrong and was intended for his family ONLY. Basically he lied!
Link to entire article including the soldier's request that his letter be deleted from the internet:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/afghanistan.asp
The death of Democracy will be from spin and misinformation.
How could even intelligent voters choose who is best for them when cynicism permeates the fabric of core of the system?
That is why all the negativity from McCain strikes a cord with me; this type of campaigning is RIPE with spin and half-truths.
Further than that is the criminal attempts to create totally unsubstantiated rumors such as the one described at the start of this thread.
This is what is sick and wrong with this campaign???bye bye democracy and hello bullcrap.
I totally agree with you, but unfortunately for some reason, I do know the reason, in this campaign all sorts of rumors are made up and spread so that they, in the minds of those who want them to be, become truth.
After being on these boards for months, I am tired of reading them so whenever I can find information to debunk them then I post it. I cannot wait until this campaign is over.
I'm glad I'm not alone in this.
Seriously, I actually welcome criticism of any candidate including Obama, as long as it is truthful, has substance and is duly stated. To fit this criteria is NOT a subjective thing as you might answer. No, there are actually concrete things to complain about or condemn for and anything else is just fluff, plain and simple.
In all honesty, I was originally undecided and thought that either candidate would be great since we'd finally be rid of Bush--and that's what I really cared about. However, the change in the style and class of the McCain campaign is really what has me seeing a Bush the 3rd. It's a damn shame, and I am not even embellishing my even tempered, moderate disappointment.
I truly believe that this kind of spin, the lies, the sensationalism, the strawmen until simpler minds submit, will be the death of Democracy. Oh we might have voting, but this does not equate; indeed, it will be the campaign that can throw the best insults and show the most arrogant and hypocritical disdain for opponents, play the most negative ads, and appeal to the most base of people's instincts that will come to power.
Speaking of which--those saying how much they hate Obama for being arrogant should look to McCain's arrogance in the way that he belittles and insults all of our intelligences with his frivolous form of negative campaigning.
I totally agree with your post, in fact most of your posts as they are intelligent and well thought out comments and not just inane bashing. I support Obama but under no circumstances am I a blind follower. There are several of his positions with which I do not agree, and I totally accept that this man is a politician and will play political games. I really do not vote a party , I usually vote democratic but if there was a republican that I felt good about then i would vote republican. I was actually looking at Ron Paul very closely in the beginning and he is a republican. I also voted for our current California Governor, basically I vote for the guy who scares me less which is Obama.
Although I definitely do not support McCain I have never felt the need to invent and spread rumors about him as so many feel the need to do to Obama. Some of their posts are absolutely horrible, they have made terrible comments about him, his wife and even his two daughters. Some on these boards have no shame and are an enbarrassment to the human race.
Wow, I too voted for Arnold--we know it was either him who said that he would try to stop the corruption and imcompetence, or a democrat here who had already been found to have been both.
Seriously, I don't even want to bash people since it accomplishes nothing in regards to a rational discussion. However, some posts are just so ridiculously wrong that I can't help myself. It appears that the new Democracy in the U.S. is going to be of Rove-ian mud and scum-fest--i.e. let those willing to have the least class win.
In all honestly, I was once undecided since I was just happy that McCain was moderate (which I really liked at the time) and seemed to be a classy, honest and respectable candidate. Since then he has just aligned all his positions closer to those of Bush and has run negative campaign, often blatently misleading and arrogant in its own right; insulting of peoples' intelligence.
Anyhow, hope you have a good one :)
This is what supporters of the McCain campaign are looking for. A man that has perpetuated job losses and accepts foreign campaign contributions, which is illegal, to which McCain is also a co-sponsor of the campaign finance reform law. McCain is a crook. No straight talk comes from a crooked person. He is full of hot air. Youse GOP'ers need to stay on the porch for the upcoming season.
It's all true, but the truly sad thing is that some just won't see these FACTS, and merely want to shout 'arrogance' this and 'liberal' that...
I'd much rather base my inclinations on factual evidence versus emotional opinions. See with your eyes and hear with you ears. Some need to stop parroting their demagogues like mindless slaves.
The ???New South' is barely existent in Greater New Orleans (GNO) or southeast LA (SELA), and very likely that applies to LA., except politically.The clock has ALWAYS clicked slower in LA since Reconstruction after the Civil War/War Between the States, which I???m now starting to think of as ???Reconstruction I???, especially in Orleans parish. There???s a cultural "time warp" on I-20 at the TX state line, and another one at the east bank Jefferson parish/Orleans parish line on the major east west- highways. Katrina shattered the Orleans/.Jefferson parish time warp, but only for the 36 hours or less , that 80% ± east bank Orleans and 50 % ± Jefferson parish was flooded by the storm surges Yes, I have heard the New South expression before, but I had not seriously thought about it until I read the article. The designation ???New South, applies only to politics in SELA and the very fuzzy borders of ???culture???.
What struck me as very odd about the articles I???m commenting on is that the author does not seem to understand the political history of the Deep South (Dixie) after Reconstruction I, administered, perhaps a better word would be ???imposed", by a Republican administration under the first President Johnson. Since Lincoln was the first Republican President, there never was viable Republican party in LA until the early 1980???s, when David Treen, of Jefferson parish was elected governor. Automatically voting a straight party line Democratic ticket has become a deeply entrenched family tradition in GNO until relatively recently, because GNO still has not forgotten or forgiven D.C. for Reconstruction I.
Some time last weekend (August 2-3), some one on the nola.com Jefferson forum, asked which [parish] is more liberal, Orleans or Jefferson? My answer was Jefferson, because it elects Republicans now, and Orleans usually doesn't, at the local government level. Mayor Nagin changed his party affiliation not long before he declared he was running for mayor in 2002. The Southern Democratic party truly is a third political party.. In national politics, Southern Democrats have functioned as Republicans since the late 1970's. LA voted for Bush in both 2000 and 2004, but look at who Orleans parish voted for in 2004: Kerry. A political candidate with a Democratic label will always win in Orleans parish, so far. The Republican party is just now becoming politically viable in Orleans parish
Until June of this year, I assumed LA would go to Obama in November. Now I think it may be a total joker card. Judging from the blatant bigotry and lies about Obama I???ve seen online and on cable news channels (CNN and MSNBC), the very thin social veneer of political correctness is gone. Fears of the stranger and the unknown, which are the bases of bigotry and xenophobia, cannot be legislated away by Congress.
Where is the cover picture from? It looks very familiar, but I cannot place it.
The cover is a picture of Oak Alley Plantation with a new layer of stucco with a change of color, upriver from Greater New Orleans
Let's boil down Dickey's convoluted and tiresome argument: White Southerners should be ashamed of themselves and their past and should therefore use this opportunity to redeem themselves by voting for Obama. After all the analysis and hand wringing over race it really all comes down to one question - is America ready to elect a president whose name is "Barack Hussein Obama"? If not just blame the ignorant white Southerners.
Nothing like a posting from somebody who didn't read the article.
He didn't say that at all.
This lengthy article is well worth taking valuable time to read. Perhaps the most salient statement is at the end when William Carter Jr., an 80-year-old deacon, states in effect: that if (Barack) Obama doesn't win, "then he is preparing the way for the next." pat guibao (patguibao@hotmail.com
only newsweek could run an big think piece about the south and not once mention the biggest and grandest of the south's traditions: college football.
I AM FROM NORTH CAROLINA AND I AM NOT, NOR WILL I EVER BE ASHAMED OF BIENG FROM THE SOUTH. AND GUESS WHAT!! I'M NOT RACIST EITHER, AND NONE OF MY ANCESTORS OWNED SLAVES!! FURTHERMORE, I LIVE IN A TOURIST TOWN AND DEAL WITH YANKEES ALL THE TIME. IT'S FUNNY TO ME HOW RACIST THEY SEEM TO BE COMPARED TO MOST PEOPLE THAT ARE FROM HERE. THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE!
A current discussion about a century-old lynching in Salisbury NC is further evidence of how raw these
emotions continue to be.
http://www.salisburypost.com/Opinion/080608-letters-wednesday
(bottom of page)
This is what supporters of the McCain campaign are looking for. A man that has perpetuated job losses and accepts foreign campaign contributions, which is illegal, to which McCain is also a co-sponsor of the campaign finance reform law. McCain is a crook. No straight talk comes from a crooked person. He is full of hot air. Youse GOP'ers need to stay on the porch for the upcoming season.
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