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The Hamdan Case: Don’t Shoot the Driver

How the Bush administration botched the 'war on terror' by overreaching.

By Michael Hirsh | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Aug 6, 2008 | Updated: 4:46  p.m. ET Aug 6, 2008

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  • Posted By: mariadcruze @ 08/08/2008 11:13:03 AM

    Comment: bush
    Is the worst prisident ever! Mcwar is a idiot has no clue on anything he old and ugly. If mcidiot win there will be another war all our sons will get drafted same old shits for the republican party. Iraq war was wrong some people think the surge is working? why did all our troop die where are the Weapons of mass destruction? Where is Bin laden? Mc idiot equals bush failed policys. Where was mcidiots experience when he went to war with iraq? Liberman say mcain is not racist he adopted a bengladeshi girl , but it wasnt him it was his wife. Ofcourse mcain is a racist. if He is president he will deport all the ilegals in america. Mcain had no choice in the adoption is wife has all the dough. And cidy could have done a lot better than this old white trash. Obama 08,12

  • Posted By: Driver of wagons @ 08/08/2008 10:00:05 AM

    Comment:

    Ron Suskind Must be the only real journalist left in this country but I guess its just the "Way of the World"


    By Ron Suskind
    What just happened? Evidence. A secret that has been judiciously kept for five years just spilled out. All of what follows is new, never reported in any way:

    The Iraq Intelligence Chief, Tahir Jalil Habbush -- a man still carrying a $1 million reward for capture, the Jack of Diamonds in Bush's famous deck of wanted men -- has been America's secret source on Iraq. Starting in January of 2003, with Blair and Bush watching, his secret reports began to flow to officials on both sides of the Atlantic, saying that there were no WMD and that Hussein was acting so odd because of fear that the Iranians would find out he was a toothless tiger. The U.S. deep-sixed the intelligence report in February, "resettled" Habbush to a safe house in Jordan during the invasion and then paid him $5 million in what could only be considered hush money.

    In the fall of 2003, after the world learned there were no WMD -- as Habbush had foretold -- the White House ordered the CIA to carry out a deception. The mission: create a handwritten letter, dated July, 2001, from Habbush to Saddam saying that Atta trained in Iraq before the attacks and the Saddam was buying yellow cake for Niger with help from a "small team from the al Qaeda organization."

    The mission was carried out, the letter was created, popped up in Baghdad, and roiled the global newcycles in December, 2003 (conning even venerable journalists like Tom Brokaw). The mission is a statutory violation of the charter of the CIA, and amendments added in 1991, prohibiting the CIA from conducting disinformation campaigns on U.S. soil.

    So, here we go again: the administration is in full attack mode, calling me names, George Tenet is claiming he doesn't remember any such thing -- just like he couldn't remember "slam dunk" -- and reporters are scratching their heads. Everything in my book is on the record, with many sources. And so, we watch and wait....

    There will be more falling by the wayside after this book is read and there may be an impeachment in the works. Wait there already is! This will give it lots of strength. If you are a patriotic American write all of your congressmen/women and senators and ask them what's up with this.


  • Posted By: bin4 @ 08/08/2008 9:43:38 AM

    Comment: Okay so are we going to go after his barber next? lol

  • Posted By: joe_mama @ 08/08/2008 12:49:17 AM

    Comment: well, it's official, the 5 1/2 year sentence (most of which has already been served) proves, without a doubt, that the President is a complete idiot, that the War on Terror is a joke, and that we really don't know what the heck we're doing or talking about.

    JM

    ps--don't worry, we can still detain him indefinitely ... we have plenty of loopholes.

  • Posted By: bajan man @ 08/07/2008 8:28:33 PM

    Comment: Aren't we lucky to have a government so vigilant to save us from an errant chauffeur. Now, due to wheels of justice, we can sleep at night with the satisfaction that this menace to the free world is no longer a threat. It was a close call for a while as the judges considered whether it was the right thing to do to use evidence obtained under duress. But in their wisdom, they said: to hell with the Constitution, we are above all that nonsense.

  • Posted By: mrzoid @ 08/07/2008 7:14:48 PM

    Comment: So, we've established that the bush administration has cocked up yet another thing huh. I guess they were hoping that they wouldnt need to have a real trial, more of a puppet show. That would probably be more entertaining to Bush anyways. Cheney could set it up, tell bush its the real trial, and some staffers could act it out with sock puppets to Georges hand clapping glee.

  • Posted By: OnlyCureJGK @ 08/07/2008 4:15:14 PM

    Comment: The Money has to come from somewhere.......... The equipment has to come from somewhere..........
    They who provide the finances, the equipment, the Oil are contributing just as much as the guys pulling the trigger or the fuse or pushing the buttons supplied to them. Look up the Council on Foriegn Relaitions you will find Fanance Companies, Oil Companies, Defense Contractors, Defense administrators. The goverment behind the government. go to the site see what its all about cfr.org

  • Posted By: OnlyCureJGK @ 08/07/2008 3:39:05 PM

    Comment: If your going to send a man to prison for operating a car.
    Then you should have sent a man to prison for operating a buisness that sold Oil to Hitler.

    • Posted By: OnlyCureJGK @ 08/07/2008 15:56:49

      Comment: To be a traittor you would have to be changing sides would you not. Central Banks don't change sides they are all interconnected they support both sides of any conflict they see as profitable to them. American money created Osoma bin laden in Afghanistan, that has been reported in the news. It has also been reported that he is against the US now. How is he financing his operations now that would be somting to look into. Arms and Oil is big business in times of War. Who benefits from war more than Arms manufactures and Oil manufactures and they can control who they sell to just as this driver could control who he worked for. Follow the money is lead right to the source of tyranny.

  • Posted By: OnlyCureJGK @ 08/07/2008 2:57:09 PM

    Comment: War on terror? Driver? this is news...... Come on people...... National security is to maintain Bankers security not to maintain individual's rights or to promote freedom as it should be. It is to create a dictatorship state. The constitution was set up to protect people not inslave them economicaly and politicaly. News reporters stop co-operating with the Elite who own you and start reporting the real issues. Tyranny, Hunger, Poverty, Sickness. These issues are more important than this.

  • Posted By: xtopher @ 08/07/2008 2:07:52 PM

    Comment: The person who should really be worried now is George Bush's driver.

  • Posted By: garysgary @ 08/07/2008 1:26:47 PM

    Comment: The war in Afghanistan is a "just" war for the U.S....we were going after people who attacked us. It was mis managed, but it was justifiable. The Iraq war is a different story altogether. Bush, Cheney, Addington, Leiberman, McCain and all the right-wing neo-cons used the "war on terror" umbrella to take down one of Israel's enemies. Aipac and the Israel lobby got the war they wanted from these guys. Iraq never attacked us.
    Why do you think they had to "spin" the war in Iraq to get the American people to go along. If they had told the truth about the real reason for the war, protecting Israel, the american people would not have supported it the way they did. Afghanistan...justified. Iraq...putting another country's interest ahead of US interests. All these guys are traitors!

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 08/14/2008 08:13:03

      Comment: Your assumption about going to Iraq being doen for ISrael's sake in not supported by the facts.

      Bush did it for his own reasons not the one you so mindlessly put forth.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 08/07/2008 15:38:27

      Comment: Yep, totally agree. Afghan War should have been fought, Iraq War was a modern-day Crusade started by Bush due to personal prejudice.

      Sadly, because the Iraq War has gotten all the publicity due to the controversy, it's also gotten the troops and funding. This means that we're now losing ground in Afghanistan where we desperately need to be actually fighting, and winning.

    • Posted By: OnlyCureJGK @ 08/07/2008 15:22:07

      Comment: War on Terror? Im terrified that you dont understand that those who control the money control the Terror. Follow the money it always leads to the evil.

  • Posted By: bajan man @ 08/07/2008 12:08:55 PM

    Comment: The world can go to bed at night comfortable in the knowledge that there is one less chauffeur on the road with the potential to cause an accident. WHAT A CHARADE!

  • Posted By: good conscience @ 08/07/2008 11:03:43 AM

    Comment: 166 days and counting...then we are rid of, forever, the horrible regime that has terrorized the White House and the country and the world for 8 of the worst years in American History. All the Bushes, Cheneys, Rices, Addingtons, and everyone else who falls into that ignominious category will burn in their own self-created hell long after we the people have stopped celebrating...Can't wait!!!

    • Posted By: OnlyCureJGK @ 08/07/2008 15:31:08

      Comment: The worst is yet to come im afraid..... Look back this all started before the turn of the century with the Bankers. They are getting more and more control.
      Look up what President Andrew Jackson had to say about the Bankers taking over.
      Look up what President Woodrow Wilson had to say after the Federal Reserve a private instituation was set up. We can it the FED but it is private.
      Look up who founded the Council for Foriegn Relations also a private ogranization cfr.org
      Look up articles written by the president of the CFR about sovernity of states.
      Be informed then share it. That is the only peacefull means of stopping tyranny. 1st amendment right.

  • Posted By: szd59 @ 08/07/2008 10:44:29 AM

    Comment: i wonder if Hitler's chauffeur was tortured and imprisoned?

    • Posted By: OnlyCureJGK @ 08/07/2008 15:37:28

      Comment: I wander where Hitler got the oil to run his war operation.
      Look that up.

    • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 08/07/2008 11:25:06

      Comment: YES HE WAS................HE HAD TO MARRY YOUR MOM!

  • Posted By: szd59 @ 08/07/2008 10:42:14 AM

    Comment: I don't recall what happened to Hitler's driver after he was caught. I wonder if he was tortured and imprisoned?

    • Posted By: Mimi13 @ 08/07/2008 16:02:18

      Comment: The Court at Nuremberg declined to try him. He was set free and died in 1975 in Germany.

  • Posted By: Cloudosmoke @ 08/07/2008 9:44:05 AM

    Comment: Anyone associated to terrorism should be tried according to their duties. They should be tried to the capacity they serve as well as have all conditions looked upon. The Bush admin wants to have a catch all prosecution minus constitutional rights and that's not right. He wants to hang everyone that is associated with any extremist movement.

  • Posted By: midnight05 @ 08/07/2008 8:35:33 AM

    Comment: We have become what we feared most -- a little dictatorship run by nasty little men with big egos. We have got to restroe the Constitution, close Gitmo and move the cases that can be tried into the criminal courts with attorneys and the ability to confront witnesses. Such a trial, before 9/11, sent the Blind Shiekh to Florence, CO for life. The bad buys can get convicted and the US will not have such a black eye. We cannot open and keep open even the smallest concentration camp -- which is what GItmo is.

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 08/07/2008 15:36:34

      Comment: Look up "FISA camps" if you really want a scare.

  • Posted By: onepatriot @ 08/07/2008 7:00:29 AM

    Comment: Can you imagin if this were 2000 years ago you could hear bush saying crusafi him, he is a terrierst he is surrounded by thieves robbers and criminals he works on the sabbath.
    I don't know Hamdan , I don't know all the truth and with Bush we may never know but if Bush can call anyone a terriourst he is playing god and if I were him I would really be nervous because he will some time stand before the real God and that should make his very nervous.

  • Posted By: Aldous21 @ 08/07/2008 2:16:56 AM

    Comment: chuckmcfarland:

    So you advocate and support Rendition, Suspention of Habeas Corpus, torture and God Knows what? Simple Yes or No would do.

  • Posted By: CliffyWorld @ 08/07/2008 1:39:54 AM

    Comment: Please read article related to this topic at http://www.cliffyworld.com/blogs

  • Posted By: CliffyWorld @ 08/07/2008 1:38:35 AM

    Comment: Please read article commenting on this subject at http://www.cliffyworld.com/blogs

  • Posted By: chuckmcfarland @ 08/06/2008 11:32:13 PM

    Comment: w/ all due respect, W. and the admin are first and foremost concrened with making sure that the guy doesn't do it again ( even tho he did very little.) They have gotten their wish. Hamden will go to prison long enough that he will pose no further threat to the U.S. ( whether he posed a threat or not is another subject )

    • Posted By: jnakhoul @ 08/07/2008 13:18:55

      Comment: yeah he won't be driving anyone anywhere, now i can sleep

    • Posted By: joe_mama @ 08/07/2008 06:57:11

      Comment: I guess you've never heard of "martyrs" ....

  • Posted By: Hearwegoagain @ 08/06/2008 11:26:10 PM

    Comment: I guess in President Bush's view he can say, "Mission Accomplished!"

  • Posted By: uuforyou @ 08/06/2008 9:38:51 PM

    Comment: I agree, it's a loss for Bush-Cheney-McCain.
    A driver??? Is that the best you can do?

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 08/06/2008 21:45:14

      Comment: This administration has spent six hundred billion dollars to catch about five hundred people, and my guess is that four hundred and fifty of them are probably innocent.

      Whatever else you want to say about the Bush administration, to me, it's clear they never consulted an economist in any of these plans.

      • Posted By: jnakhoul @ 08/07/2008 13:19:51

        Comment: they did, they were all just soulless neoliberals like that snake bremer

      • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 08/07/2008 11:22:16

        Comment: GOOD GUESS, KRESKIN.....................AT LEAST DOUBLE DIGIT DETAINIES HAVE BEEN KILLED ON THE BATTLE FIELD SINCE RELEASE FROM GITMO.................BUT OF COURSE YOU BELIEVE THAT THE DETAINMENT IS WHAT MADE THEM FIGHT...................THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THOSE THAT REFUSED TO FIGHT TO PROTECT THEMSELVE AND THOSE OF THEIR OWN COUNTRYMEN (AND WOMEN)...............SOME ARE CONSIENCIOUS OBJECTORS SOME JUST PLAIN COWARDS.....................EITHER EXCUSE TO "GO QUIETLY INTO THE DARK" IS A LOSS OF AN INSTINCTUAL ANIMAL TRAIT , SURVIVAL INSTINCT...........................THAT LOSS IS AKIN TO A DE-EVOLUTION OR REDUCTION OF THE GENETIC STANDARD OPERATING EQUIPMENT PREREQUISITE TO ALL SPECIES ON THE INCREASING SIDE OF THE SURVIVAL EQUATION!

        MEANING SIMPLY...................THAT THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PEOPLE AVAILABLE TO DO THE DIRTY WORK AND ALWAYS BEEN THOSE TOO COWARDLY TO DO WHAT IS NEEDED BUT WHO'S MOUTHS ARE ALWAY FLAPPING ABOUT HOW TO LEAD WITH YOUR CONSCIENCE..................WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE ENEMY WISHES FOR!.............................P.S. BUSH IS AN IDIOT FOR REAL..................BUT IF HE HAD THE BALLS TO ACTUALLY FIGHT THE WAR HE STARTED LIKE A WAR INSTEAD OF IN THE MIDDLE SAYIN: "NOW I WILL SHOW THE WORLD THAT G.W. BUSH HAS A CONSCIENCE, SO I WILL BRING DEMOCRACY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE TOO DUMB TO KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT".....................IF HE HAD DONE A REAL WAR AND GOT THE HELL OUT, HIS HISTORICAL RECORD WOULD BE A 180 FROM WHAT IT WILL BE.......................YES MANY WOULD HAVE CRIED(YOU FOR INSTANCE) "THAT IT WAS TOO HEAVY HANDED, THE BIG GUY BEAT UP ON THE LITTLE GUY", BUT YOU AND THEY WOULD BE THE MINORITY...............AND WE BOTH KNOW WHAT THE MINORITY GETS IN A DEMOCRACY!

        • Posted By: TheVigil @ 08/07/2008 15:27:16

          Comment: Buddy boy, I enlisted in the U.S. military, so don't you ever speak to me about "courage" until you've done the same thing. And quite honestly and frankly, very few liberals believe that the war in Afghanistan, against the Taliban, who actually provided the training facilities for Al-Qaeda. What we hate is the fact that it's been extended to everyone in the Middle East, regardless of whether or not they've done anything wrong. I can guarantee you that the war in Iraq did nothing for our country but to swell the enlistment ranks of *actual* terrorists by making a generation of young Arabs believe - possibly rightly - that America has declared a "holy" war against every Arab in the world.

          But you're the same man who thinks the Palestinians are "chimpanzees with bombs", and who's advocated their mass murder, so I can't expect much protection from human rights out of you. And as far as "exactly what the enemy wishes for" - bin Laden has *stated* that his war is not physical but economic. His goal is to attempt to get the U.S. to spend itself into bankruptcy by fighting an unreasonably expensive war. Which is exactly what we're doing...now which of the two of us is advocating for this kind of policy?

          By the way, you'd never have the courage to say these kinds of things to my face - but it's really easy to be brave behind a computer keyboard.

          And for the love of God, your Caps Lock key is to the side of your keyboard. Please turn it off.

          • Posted By: LIKEITIS @ 08/08/2008 13:18:35

            Comment: BTW, YOU ARE AWARE THAT APPROXIMATELY 75-100 MILLION OF THE AMERICAN CITIZENS ALIVE TODAY DID THEIR TIME(INCLUDING ME), AND THAT DOESN'T MAKE US ALL HEROS OR BEYONG REPROACH, IT SIMPLY MEANS WE DID WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF US..........WHAT IT DOESN'T MEAN IS THAT WE HAVEN'T TAKEN A COWARDLY STANCE AFTER BEING FACED WITH THE HORRORS OF WAR!

            HAVING ENLISTED, YOU PROBABLY DID IT IN PEACE TIME..................I DID GET LOTTERIED BUT IT WAS ANOTHER IDIOTIC "HALF FOUGHT WAR"(IF WE HAD AT LEAST TRIED WE WOULD HAVE WON EASILY)

            THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, FOR SOMEONE ADVOCATING A COMPLETE AND THOROUGH EVALUATION OF GUILT BEFORE INCLUDING THE POPULATION OF A THEOCRACY CONTROLED GROUP WHO HAVE THROUGH AT LEAST IGNORING THEIR PROBLEMS MADE THEM OUR LIFE THREATING PROBLEMS...............YOU SEEM TO EASILY ABLE TO TALK THE TALK QUICKLY FOR ONE WHO WANTS OUR SERVICE MEN ON FOOT AND IN THE CROSSHAIRS OF THE ENEMY INSTEAD OF FACING THE FACT THAT IS A COWARDLY THING TO DO WITH ANOTHER PERSONS LIFE, WHEN WE BOTH KNOW YOU (AND I AS WELL)WOULD WANT FOR A BETTER REASON TO PUT MY LIFE IN HARMS WAY BEYOND SAVING SUPPOSEDLY INNOCENTS!

            AS I SAID ON THE PAL/ISRAELI THING.........WE BOTH KNOW THAT KILLING IN RESPONSE TO ATTACK IS JUSTIFIABLE HOMOCIDE.............AND IT IS GETTING PRETTY OLD HEARING YOUR TWISTED SPIN ON THAT!

            THERE IS NO NEED TO INCLUDE A FABRICATED DIETY IN MY CAPS LOCK ISSUE(BTW THERE IS NO GOD)

            SOME EINSTIEN OF THE WEB DECIDED TO INTERPRET CAPS AS A RAISED VOICE AND YOU FEEL THE NEED TO PERPETUATE THAT STUPIDITY(YOUR PEROGATIVE).

            IF IT IS INSURMOUNTABLE AND YOU NEED TO INORE MY POSTS, I WILL GET OVER IT, WITHOUT THREATING YOU OR SPEAKING OF HOW YOU MIGHT HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION WERE I THERE!

            • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 08/14/2008 08:09:29

              Comment: Actually, it was a general consensus of the early web community (and is still the overwhelming consensus) that caps are shouting.

              Also it has been proven dozens of times (in various studies) that posts in all caps are harder to read. That is why it is called TITLE CASE in the printing world. Because it should be reserved for special use.

              Of course if you think that your stuff is not important enough to be read then use all caps. It says volumes about your intellect.

            • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 08/14/2008 07:58:29

              Comment: likeitis,

              Are you incapable of listening. Using all caps proves that you are not worth listening to. Only a fool uses all caps.

              Once you stop being a fool, you will be worth reading.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/06/2008 7:26:21 PM

    Comment: Our own president was afraid of our own law. He created a jurisdiction out of nothing, and then created law out of nothing to do what is rapidly amounting to nothing. Except, of course, keeping a lot of people away from the law that he is afraid of. Every one of those prisoners should have been tried years ago. Those who were proved to be guilty should have already been sentenced long ago. Most of all, those who were not guilty should have been released long ago.
    Please, let us never again elect a president who is afraid of our own law. I want the people in the press to be sure and ask every candidate from this day forward, and to print the answer in bold print over and over again, "Mr. Candidate, are you afraid of the individual rights created under the U.S. Constitution?" And don't quit until you get an answer.

  • Posted By: Paul Svec @ 08/06/2008 6:20:03 PM

    Comment: Rich W, the only laughter I hear is at you! You still believe that we're winning a war on terrorism by invading the wrong country and prosecuting the wheel man instead of finding the terrorists. Maybe you can get a job in November with one of the Bush gang.

    • Posted By: PresidentSupporter @ 08/06/2008 18:32:15

      Comment: Does the driver in a drive-by shooting get to walk away as an innocent man? Why should this clown be any different just because the drive-by shooter takes years and recruits young idiots to do his killing?

      If you hang around criminals and terrorists, then you are just as guilty.

      • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 08/14/2008 08:04:56

        Comment: Actually, the driver of a boss is not always guilty of anything other than aiding and abetting.
        Did he know what was going one. Probably. Does that make him as guilty as those who plan it and carry it out? No.

        No one said he was innocent, just that he was not the same as Bin Laden.

      • Posted By: teddyo @ 08/07/2008 09:28:43

        Comment: America (those in power) has done many things alot worse! Glad were getting rid of the president of Terror.

        • Posted By: PresidentSupporter @ 08/08/2008 12:59:43

          Comment: Those who started the terror are to blame for the retaliation. It's like a little brother who annoys the crap out of big brother and then everyone is shocked when big brother smacks him. Blame Bin Laden for all the stuff going on today.

      • Posted By: TheVigil @ 08/06/2008 21:29:55

        Comment: Guilt by association violates the "innocent until proven guilty" principle that is a bedrock of our legal system. It's also a frequent hallmark of authoritarian, dictatorial, or fascist states and one of the ones most frequently misused to jail the innocent. You may support this President, but I believe your support for true American principle is flawed.

        I idly wish someone would drop you off on the wrong side of your town and prosecute you for asking directions of someone there so that you could see firsthand how persecutory and unfair the principle you espouse can really be.

        • Posted By: PresidentSupporter @ 08/07/2008 17:15:46

          Comment: Honestly, none of us know right now what was said in the court proceedings, so we don't know for sure if the guy was innocent or guilty. My point is that you have to be completely blind to think that someone driving Bin Laden around had no idea he was working with a terrorist. Maybe he didn't ever kill anyone or do anything wrong, but he is part of a terrorist group. Technically Bin Laden didn't kill anyone either. Maybe Hitler didn't kill anyone personally. Does that make them innocent?

          I hung around with a lot of criminals in my youth and never for one second did any of us think we were completely innocent even though we didn't participate in certain things. Only criminals and liberals think that everyone is completely blameless unless they actually committed the crime. It's a sad and irresponsible way to think. After all, 99% of people in prison swear they aren't to blame for why they're there.

      • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/06/2008 19:07:18

        Comment: All has to do with intent. Driver may not know what is going to be done." Hey, taxi. Take me to the bank". Taxi driver takes him to the bank. Robber says, "wait here for me while I go in and cash a check." Strolls out, gets in the cab. Stopped two blocks away by the police. Did the taxi driver know? If he did, then he committed a crime. If he didn't, then he is innocent. What was the evidence in this trial about what the driver knew? Or do you know this?

        • Posted By: PresidentSupporter @ 08/07/2008 17:18:42

          Comment: Seriously, do you think this guy is that stupid that he had no clue who the most famous face in the Middle East was or what he was participating in? Perhaps they should give the man an IQ test and if it's below 90, let him go. Surely he wouldn't ever go back to supporting terrorists again.

  • Posted By: Rich W @ 08/06/2008 6:02:14 PM

    Comment: The author needs to try some objective journalism instead of this left wing boilerplate claptrap. Does any sane person think that the guy trusted with Bin Laden's life on a daily basis wasn't a committed terrorist? Give me a break. Bin Laden and his cronies are laughing at us in a cave right now.

    • Posted By: raddave @ 08/07/2008 04:08:39

      Comment: He probably is a terrorist, but the prosecuter could not prove that beyond a reasonable doubt.

      • Posted By: billinvirginia @ 08/08/2008 08:12:19

        Comment: No reasonable doubt standard in military tribunals.

    • Posted By: xeyeldinTX @ 08/06/2008 20:47:37

      Comment: Regardless of what you may think you "know" our legal system provides for innocent until proven guilty. I would rather a lot of guilty people go free than 1 innocent man die or be incarcerated for something they did not do. This was the entire intent of the innocent until proven guilty. Our government, with 5 years to prove their case could not show conclusively that the man was guilty of more than driving.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/06/2008 19:02:15

      Comment: All we know is that he could drive.

      • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/06/2008 19:09:29

        Comment: We have spent billions of dollars trying to find a cave man.

        • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/06/2008 19:12:12

          Comment: I believe the words were, "hunt him down and smoke him out". Riding a trillion dollar horse with a billion dollar cap pistol. Hunting a cave man. What a president. Forgot what he was doing and then started a giant war with a country that had nothing to do with the problem.

          • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/06/2008 19:14:31

            Comment: A boilerplate claptrap president.

            • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/06/2008 19:18:42

              Comment: So, he puts up a 25 million dollar reward to catch the caveman. Somebody finds his chauffeur. Holds him for five years and then gives him a trial. What did he do besides drive a man who planned and executed a crime thousands of miles from the chauffeured automobile, or camel? Tell us what he did, Rich.

              • Posted By: jnakhoul @ 08/07/2008 13:24:31

                Comment: don't forget all the indiscriminate awards that led to hundreds of innocents being tortured just so the person who turned them in could collect a few grand

  • Posted By: Porpus @ 08/06/2008 6:01:45 PM

    Comment: What is the sentence associated with this conviction? I have read in other articles that it can carry life inprissionment. Doesn't sound like a small victory to me. Also I dispute the premiss that our troops were treated better when we had the "moral authority". How were our troops treated in Somolia, Vietnam, etc.?

    • Posted By: Mimi13 @ 08/07/2008 16:04:18

      Comment: 66 months, including time served. Someone will have to decide where he goes in about six months.

  • Posted By: tlhwraith @ 08/06/2008 5:57:39 PM

    Comment: The moral of the story is that we shouldn't abandon the very principles that REALLY make use a great nation, the notion of being a just society that protects the rights of everyone against the tyranny of government. Everyone seems to forget basic civics when it comes to "the war on terror", our founding fathers didn't trust the government to do the right thing all by itself, because they knew that power corrupts absolutely, especially when it isn't checked by the will of the people.

    As a people we let the Bush Administration run all over the principles of this country for the illusion of safety and security. In the process we've let the spy on us, jail people with little or no evidence, and even declare war on countries for made-up and transparent motives. at some point I hope we as a people get our government back in line somehow, but I don't see either of our Presidential hopefuls being too quick to right all the wrongs done by our current President.

  • Posted By: Porpus @ 08/06/2008 5:57:34 PM

    Comment: What is the sentence associated with this conviction? I have read in other articles that it can carry life inprissionment. Doesn't sound like a small victory to me. Also I dispute the premiss that our troops were treated better when we had the "moral authority". How were our troops treated in Somolia, Vietnam, etc.?

  • Posted By: 7thson @ 08/06/2008 5:42:35 PM

    Comment: I love the way the press can't decide if this was a victory or a failure. I just read the AP article blasting the Bush administration for condemning a man to life in prison with a kangaroo court, and now I'm reading that the wimpy charge the defendant caught is but a scintilla of his potential charge, and the Bush Administration failed even in trying this weak case, and "losing".

    One thing is certain. No one who wasn't in the courtroom knows anything about what the defendant did or didn't do, and those who condemn either side are demonstrating their idiocy.

  • Posted By: 7thson @ 08/06/2008 5:41:54 PM

    Comment: I love the way the press can't decide if this was a victory or a failure. I just read the AP article blasting the Bush administration for condemning a man to life in prison with a kangaroo court, and now I'm reading that the wimpy charge the defendant caught is but a scintilla of his potential charge, and the Bush Administration failed even in trying this weak case, and "losing".

    One thing is certain. No one who wasn't in the courtroom knows anything about what the defendant did or didn't do, and those who condemn either side are demonstrating their idiocy.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/06/2008 5:37:39 PM

    Comment: I found no scum bag definition, but did find a scumbag. Says it's an undesirable person. Thanks Robt55. Are there any scumbag doctors or other professions?

    • Posted By: kidmm @ 08/07/2008 08:59:27

      Comment: A "scum bag" is archaic slang for a condom (early 20th century, WWI and 1920s). As you might imagine, it was considered an insult to be called one.

      • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/07/2008 11:03:14

        Comment: The blogs are really great places to mingle with the whole gamut of American life and thought. You can stand in a crowd and listen without having to leave the comfort of your nursing home. I will love this place until they pry my computer from my cold dead hands. Thanks Kidmm, for the info. Need to get out my magnifying glass and my Oxford English Dictionary more often. We should all know what the words mean that we so freely use.

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/06/2008 5:35:42 PM

    Comment: I've heard the term many times but no one has ever defined what a scum bag is, to my knowledge. Is it in my dictionary? I will check and report back.

  • Posted By: robt55 @ 08/06/2008 5:27:14 PM

    Comment: Just what we need; more scum bag attorneys prosecuting a war. I love the use of ???terrorist???. He was no ???terrorist??? he was a Baskin-Robbins employee who moonlighted as a driver for Bin Laden. It's because of these leeches that convicts are still awaiting the outcome of their trials years after victims are forgotten about. The entire judicial process is filled with nothing but a bunch of self serving, low life, smarmy, rock dwellers.

    • Posted By: joe_mama @ 08/07/2008 07:02:55

      Comment: "more scum bag attorneys "

      These are military attorneys and they were assigned these cases. They won't make a dime on them, and, if they turn them down, they risk not getting cases in the future.

      Please know what you're talking about before you start talking ... it's make life much more enjoyable for all.

      JM

    • Posted By: raddave @ 08/07/2008 04:17:05

      Comment: these bunch of self serving, low life, smarmy rock dwelling scum bag attorneys are military lawyers, as in they are in the miltary. That doesn't sound like self-serving to me. If a prisoner is awaiting the outcome of their trials, they are not convicts, they are the accused. Our legal system is based on the principle of due process

    • Posted By: Swstlove @ 08/06/2008 17:44:47

      Comment: ....and this Haman was only working at the Bin Laden Factory in the car pool as a 'driver' and one day Bin needed a 'driver' so that's how come he got involved? Gimmer a break. This guy had to be in on a WHOLE lotta what ol' Binnie was up to and that's how come he landed in Gitmo to start with. The guy committed war crimes big time during his term as the designated driver and he's getting off e-a-s-y.

      • Posted By: olderwiser @ 08/06/2008 18:57:35

        Comment: I believe that you have created a crime of "guilt by arrest". If he was arrested, then he's guilty. "Had to be" is not very good proof. The case stinks.

        • Posted By: TheVigil @ 08/06/2008 21:43:32

          Comment: The whole thing stinks. The violation of due process stinks, the loss of "innocent until proven guilty" stinks, the neo-McCarthyist hate for Muslims and Arabs and Pakistanis and anyone else from within a particular set of longitude lines stinks, the torture stinks, and the "secret" concentration camp that we call a "detention center" where camp inmates are catching hepatitis and pneumonia and jaundice and losing the ability to use their limbs despite no proof of their own guilt really, really stinks, both figuratively and literally.

          For all the blasting that the neoconservative movement has done of Hollywood, Newsweek just covered another piece explaining how the TV show "24" and its protagonist Jack Bauer were referenced more times than any real human person in providing the rationale for Guantanamo Bay and its policies. One thing I found particularly compelling was that in real life, a "time bomb" - a person who has critical time-sensitive information about a near-window terrorist attack on whom torture is used to extract *theoretically* time-critical information used to prevent the terror attack - is almost never found. Yet Jack Bauer finds an average of 12 of them every season (each season on that show representing a 24-hour period.) Bush and the others think they're in a movie about fighting terrorists, and as a result they make decisions that are completely out of line with reality. Very few competent career intelligence officers ever believe that torture improves the quality of intelligence, for the simple reason that prisoners will lie to escape torture.

          I would add my voice to the others accusing Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Rice, Gonzalez, and the others who instituted this terror policy of war crimes against humanity. I think they should be tried at the Hague. But - just like Lyndon Johnson and Kissinger and the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam, despite the increasing evidence that the Gulf of Tonkin incident may have *never happened* - their trial will also never happen. My only hope is that there's an afterlife where these ugly and self-justifying men and women can learn the nature of the evils and pain they've inflicted.

      • Posted By: tlhwraith @ 08/06/2008 17:53:54

        Comment: Isn't that what trials are supposed to be for? I think the point is that the Bush Administration didn't do their jobs, and that is to detain people because of EVIDENCE, not because they didn't like them.

        People seem to lose sight of things real quick. Our entire justice system was founded on the idea of innocent until PROVEN guilty. The problem here is that we as a people turned our back on that when it became to inconvenient and jailed a bunch of people apparently without any real evidence they did anything substantial.

        I'm not saying this guy is innocent, I don't know either way, the point is that our legal system and our country should have done the right thing, assume he was innocent unless we had compelling evidence otherwise.

        "First they came for my neighbors, and I said nothing"

 
 
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