Rethinking Fathers’ Rights

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  • Posted By: gfbum @ 08/11/2008 3:04:00 AM

    I think it is time for the states to protect the children and their Fathers more in divorce matters than they previously have. The States have callously disregarded men (some would say discriminated against men) in family court time after time. I have a few ideas. No moving out of state without the other parent's consent; we are after all looking out for the child's best interest. Who would say that the child's best interest is served by separating them from one of their parents for most of the year? Speaking to those who complain about child support, you will have to get over it. Children can't work to support themselves so their parents have to do so. Esenciao8 is making some fairly absurd comments in the post below: comments 1 (well I was going to list them individually but they are all absurd so I am hoping they are tongue in cheek responses to joemaflage). The real problem is those in a marriage (I am assuming a man and a woman because no other combination can produce children; at least naturally that is) are not taking due diligence to determine if they should have children together, and feel abandoning a marriage for their personal comfort which is cowardly. If there are issues such as abuse, alcoholism, or other dangers then moving on could be the best decision. Today we see too many divorces out of selfishness because couples are not willing to work through their problems. I hope we can strengthen marriage in America, and better protect children than we have in recent times. There are just my thoughts today.

    • Posted By: Esencia08 @ 08/11/2008 4:57:24 AM

      To Mr. BUM: Since you took it upon yourself to call the information I presented as absurd, I would first take a good look at your own comments because they contain bigotry and a disdain (or perhaps you are just intellectually challenged?) for expanded concepts which do not fit into your narrow minded brain. Also, for your information, two lesbian women can naturally give birth to children as sperm is widely available in huge quantities for lesbian women who wish to conceive a child, this also includes any woman for that matter whether or not she chooses to marry. In today's globalized economy, it makes no sense to tie a parent down in one State or locality, this especially applies to women who have sole or joint custody of their children. Laws such as this wherever they exist need to be repealed.

      • Posted By: Yuseff @ 08/13/2008 2:55:13 PM

        Cool, then the mother (or whomever the custodial parent is) should bear the expense of flying the children to the state where the noncustodial parent is when he has visitation. Correct?

  • Posted By: rafinmn @ 08/13/2008 1:21:01 PM

    I have seen child support as high as 50% even if the law states that 30% is what should be taken. I have seen women accuse their ex-husbands of all sorts of bad things and the court just accepts what the women say, no proof was needed. I have seen women with DWI's and violence against their ex-husbands still get custody of the children. As long as she gave birth to the child, she gets custody. I will take years for a man to win custody of his kids and tons of evidence. Unless there is evidence to proof either a man or a woman's statement, it should not be used in a court. I am a woman and I have more men get cleaned out by the courts both monetarily and physically. Why can't someone listen to the fathers? They are people too and love their kids just as much.

  • Posted By: HPATB4M @ 08/13/2008 12:48:07 PM

    Don't forget the payments to the social worker to supervise those visitations. They are not cheap.

  • Posted By: summer4077 @ 08/13/2008 12:16:56 PM

    I'm not sure where she got the quote about fathers paying 33% of their income in child support. In my state, child support can only be up to 25% of the obligee's income, and is often much lower. My sister's daughter is 8, and my sister only received $235/month from the father. The father makes $45,000. Definitely nowhere near 33%!! (Although, granted, the child support system in the Ohio county where she lives is pretty terrible.)

  • Posted By: aishku @ 08/13/2008 10:22:12 AM

    The author says we "...pick the wrong poster boys to highlight the problems of fathers' rights." and then she does the same thing. There is a reason Alec Baldwain, Clark Rockefeller, and Darren Mack will/have end up in court over custody and it's not becasue they are such awesome fathers. Truly adult parents who actually understand how to parent do not end up in court fighting over who "gets" the children. In addition, fathers do not pay to see their kids - they provide child support to SUPPORT their CHILDREN. This is their, and their ex-wives' responsibility, it's not a punishment. Congratulations though as you manage to both insult women and men with this article.

  • Posted By: Anicca @ 08/13/2008 6:25:02 AM

    The author begins: "Despite the fact that divorce is rarely triggered by violence or abuse" Is this statement posed by the author based upon her research, or her personal observation? From where is her vantage point? A highly paid attorney more often affordable to men than women? A second wife or girlfriend believing the first wife must have been "crazy" (She'll likely revise that opinion in a few years). I've worked in the Court system for years, and spent many years conducting child custody investigations. In the first place, the really good healthy parents, fathers and mothers, NEVER end up in court fighting over their children. They work it out between themselves. The ones who do end in Court? They exhibit a few common factors: At least, at the very least, 50 percent have domestic violence as a factor in the divorce. Not made up domestic violence. Police in the middle of the night, physical injury, children hysterical domestic violence. The others have a geography issue. Or just serious mental health of at least one, if not two members of the couple. But to imply that the violence I saw, so very well documented, most often with the mother as a victim, does not occur, is obviously not based on research, but rather some kind of personal bias or agenda. Newsweek should be above this kind of article.

  • Posted By: joemaflage @ 08/10/2008 10:42:07 PM

    The key is to promote both parents to actively raise their children.
    Children need both parents that is common sense that no amount of junk science can disprove
    www.cycling4children.com
    www.myspace.com/familyrights
    http://www.youtube.com/user/joemaflage
    www.dcfestival2008.com www.daddyblogger.com www.Cycling4Children.com www.laryholland.com www.dance4equality.com http://www.scribd.com/people/view/102440-dougdante http://www.michigandemocrat.net/ http://www.corruptusjudicialsystem.org/#Announcements%20&%20Court%20Watch

    • Posted By: Esencia08 @ 08/11/2008 12:50:01 AM

      Joe you dont know what you are talking about, you are making assumptions based on faulty data and thus sprouting false beliefs. The key to raising healthy children is to increase protective factors for children and this chiefly means supporting and strengthening Motherhood. A notable example of how women and their extended family can do an excellent job in raising children without their biological fathers is Barack Obama! In essence fatherhood is just a social construct because any man can serve as a father figure or role model for a child including the mother herself along with a brother, uncle or a grandfather or even a husband if she chooses to marry at all.

      • Posted By: Babo @ 08/12/2008 9:03:07 PM

        Esenciao8,
        You write astonishingly sexist and ridiculous posts. I challenge you to cite a single reputable study to back up anything you have said.

  • Posted By: nh bob @ 08/11/2008 8:59:23 AM

    The nonsense posted below by Kevin nicely highlights how twisted some of the thinking is by supporters of the junk science of "Parental Alienation". To be against violence is not the same as being "against men". To be in favor of a system of justice that take into consideration the best interests of the children - as well as the adults - is to be for justice - not against men. In every civil action that goes to court - one of the parties walks away aggrieved, their side didn't carry the day. So it is in divorce. As a divorced dad who pays generous alimony and child support and who flies twice a month to another state to visit my children - I know how painful separation from them can be - but I also know enough to do what is right for them - a steady - secure and cheerful home - without having to yo yo back and forth.

    • Posted By: curlygrrl341 @ 08/12/2008 6:31:47 PM

      You are an immensely strong person and extremely mature. Your children will appreciate how brave you are in not making an ugly situation even uglier by dragging out a custody dispute. You have the rare qualities of a selfless, loving parent that is willing to suffer to ensure stability in your children's lives. Good for you and thanks for writing.

  • Posted By: LilyParker1 @ 08/12/2008 6:06:46 PM

    Thank you for this article. It is a shame what the courts put these fathers throught. As a child of a fathered who was screwed over by the courts and my mother (thank god my father fought and fought and finally got custody). While he had everything against him, he never gave up and finally rightfully got us away from my mother.

  • Posted By: LilyParker1 @ 08/12/2008 6:04:35 PM

    Thank you for this article. As a child who went through this, it's a relief to hear the problem being recognized. The court and my mother tried to shut my father out of my life, but thank god he continued to fight and finally got custody of us (he should have gotten it from the beginning. It's appalling the way the courts favor mothers.

  • Posted By: justadad @ 08/12/2008 4:39:22 PM

    Thank you for your article. The time has come to give back Dad's their constitutional right to parent and recognize that right as equal to the Mom's. Family Courts are corrupt systems that profit immensely by creating chaos and conflict in divorce and custody proceedings. This must stop now.
    Paul Greiner, Franklinville, NY www.thegeezerzone.com

  • Posted By: justadad @ 08/12/2008 4:29:40 PM

    Thank you, thank you, thank you for pointing out so accurately some of the horrible things going on in the family court system. I am a dad who has pain my ex and her husband over $45,000 since January of 2004. I am a 100% disabled Vietnam Vet and have to fight for every moment I get with my son. We live in the same town but I have been refused shared parenting several times. Dahlia, thanks again for speaking out because so many people are afraid to do so for fear of feminist backlash. Paul Greiner, Franklinville, NY
    www.thegeezerzone.com

  • Posted By: Babo @ 08/12/2008 12:48:14 PM











































































































































































































































































































































    Katy Perry--Anti-Gay or Anti-Male? First Lesbian Marriage, Now Lesbian Child Support


    Atlanta Cop: I'm tired of seeing restraining orders used as a weapon against good men
    July 24th, 2008 by Glenn Sacks
    "In my 14 years of policing, when proof is made to show the court that the T.P.O. is being sought for false reasons, no arrest is ever made...Judges just lecture the false accuser and sends her on her merry little way."

    On the subject of women employing fraudulently obtained domestic violence restraining orders as a strategic tool, I recently received this letter from Mark, an Atlanta police officer. Mark writes:

    I have seen first hand the horrendous treatment that fathers get in Family Court. Just last week I had the privilege to prevent a woman from getting a Temporary Protective Order against her ex-boyfriend.

    Her intent was to remove him from his house so she could move in and gain residency because she lost her home and had no other place to go. I felt an arrest was in order for false statements to the court in her application. She cited that he was abusive and she was scared of him. Failing to inform the court that she did not even live with him!

    Fortunately for him, I, a police officer, was there to stand up on his behalf. Sadly, most men do not have an officer to prevent the issuance of T.P.O.s. Most counties do not even require a police investigation. The allegation is sufficient enough to warrant the T.P.O.

    I believe we should all remember that a T.P.O. is a mere civil action until it is violated, which means there is no crime. The false statements and swearing, that is required, to obtain a T.P.O. is a felony right from the start.

    In my 14 years of policing, when proof is made to show the court that the T.P.O. is being sought for false reasons, no arrest is ever made. Furthermore, this is done at a hearing in front of the judge. Judges just lecture the false accuser and sends her on her merry little way. I have witnessed many injustices against fathers.

    I do feel that Protective Orders can be a good tool. I'm just tired of them being used as a weapon against good men.

    A friend of mine, also an officer, sent me your site in an e-mail, and many officers share your views. We see it firsthand and many of us strive to make sure the right thing is done.

    This entry was posted on Thursday, July 24th, 2008 at 10:30 am and is filed under Domestic Violence/DV System, Restraining Orders/Protection Orders. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently

  • Posted By: strawberrynote @ 08/11/2008 1:55:58 PM

    Lithwick has missed the boat with this unresearched article. To state that: "Despite the fact that divorce is rarely triggered by violence or abuse, the incentives to allege that a man is abusive and out of control are undeniable." is both statistically incorrect and misleading. The incidence of domestic violence in divorce and custody cases is very high--in the range of 70-75% based on numerous studies.

    • Posted By: Babo @ 08/12/2008 12:16:25 PM

      Strawberrynote, I challenge you to cite a single credible source for your figure of 70-75% incidence of domestic violence in divorce. This is pure propaganda nonsense. The actual number is about 1/5 of what you claim, and about half of that violence is perpetrated by women.

    • Posted By: Babo @ 08/12/2008 12:08:15 PM

      Strawberrynote,
      I challenge you to cite a single credible source that places the incidence of DV in divorce at 70-75%. This is pure propoganda. The incidence of violence is less than a third of that, and about half of that violence is perpetrated by women.

    • Posted By: strawberrynote @ 08/11/2008 2:03:20 PM

      (continued). For Lithwick to allege there are "incentives" to make allegations of abuse is laughable. The fathers and courts ensue on a backlash against any mother making allegations of abuse to her or the child even with documented evidence. There is a high likelihood of losing her child to the abusive father. Looks like a little fact checking should have been in order.

      • Posted By: JADF @ 08/11/2008 2:39:10 PM

        Of course there are incentives! As soon as the accusation is made, the "victim" has access to immensely powerful forces which will help her bully and control her target. TROs are granted without hesitation. Full custody is immediately granted and the target must fight for months to clear his name and even then may not get to see his kids. Innocent until proven guilty? Don't make me laugh!

  • Posted By: fluffyone @ 08/10/2008 7:22:11 PM

    Rethinking Father's Rights?
    GOOD!
    Sinking them hopefully
    Yes, but "that" is a sore excuse for disenfranchising women in their biological preemptive role borne of their bodies being generative.
    "Much of what's wrong with family law today lies in warmed-over stereotypes of men as unsuited to caring for their children."
    Statistically the majority of men have proven themselve to being unsuited to care for their children in even the most fundamental of ways: child support. Other modes of supposed care approach a scientific level of being ludicrous. Seeing is believing, but I see men fighting for a justification for taking away reproductive determinism from women. Men are not essential in the upbringing of children at all, unless they dispense with imposing the will of the father, which amounts to nothing more than an oedipus complex becoming generational in rearing alpha males and producing disturbed abused children, mostly disturbed insecure girls.
    However exceptions determining the rule are not allowed for women, they never have been.
    Yet men come with this hocus, and take the exception as a justification for continuity in determinism. They want their cake and want to eat it on a sore justification and the result is blaming the victim, or blaming the woman who essentially has to carry the child. Men contribute sperm, bad habits, genetic diseases, faulty nuclear DNA, autism, a lack of socialisation, a natural propensity for narcissism that has resulted them demanding such privileges. Yes, the natural world would return their deceptive manipulations of the aspirations of socialization with a swift kick in the crotch. But in this society, the nature of the abuse gets clouded, because a good woman will stand by her man and the dirt will never get out. Therefore we have to take away from the woman who will not stand by her man? I will not support this form of repugnant "masculinism determinacy at any cost".
    A stereotype is not a stereotype when a majority commit the crime, a crime of attrocity.
    Imagine if I said all women are nurturing, hardly a man would disagree with me,
    yet if I said that women are stronger than men, the men would be up in arms and fight contention by exclaiming that these women are being "hard" (harsh?) and perhaps tedious.

    • Posted By: teriincali @ 08/10/2008 10:17:59 PM

      why are you lying and slandering fathers? what is your agenda?

      • Posted By: fluffyone @ 08/11/2008 7:08:59 PM

        I am doing exactly what I am doing, explicitly because I am. I have experience in the riles of male self-importance and have no agenda in these things. Seeing the abusive nature in men and realising the resentful urges of fathers is something I have experienced first hand. I myself "was" a so so father for the extent of time my ex-wife allowed me to be one. It all depends on what the cumulative decision of my son is and his final verdict of my worth as father as he enters into adulthood. My son has recently joined the military to serve his country at bequest and to satisfy his mother. I believe that if men cannot be obedient to the one woman who showed loyalty, even if it is for a foreshortened time, they should give it up. They cannot be trusted and obviously harbor resentments towards her. One cannot promise a giving relationship and then make a full about face in order to take away from her. Honestly, fatherhood rights is a blemish on male honor. A good man rewards and does not stake claims. A good father maintains balance and tries to keep the child in the mothers home.

        Thomas John Andrews aka fluffyone

  • Posted By: Kevin Thompson @ 08/11/2008 8:09:08 AM

    The problem with our family court system is rooted in the Title IV-D money to be made by separating children from one of their parents and the money to be made by lawyers who are the only winners in these "winner takes all" courtrooms. Then you have the ignorant, man-hating rhetoric spewed by morons like Eseciao8 below, which is an opinion shared by many of the the idiot judges who work in family court today. It is no surprise, when you combine money incentives and anti-male propaganda, that you have women receiving custody 90% of the time. I always enjoy reading garbage from people like Eseciao8, because it exposes her radical movement for exactly what it is - a hateful group of man-haters, who are not interested in equal rights, but in favored, entitled treatment. She does not, in any way, speak for the majority of feminists who I know and respect.

    • Posted By: venusian424 @ 08/11/2008 6:26:44 PM

      The courts and the common law have long recognized the sacred, unalienable bond between mother and child. Hence, custody will always go to the mother unless she is found to be extremely unfit. Kudos to you Essencia for bringing some education to these poor little whiny men! Women do not need marriage. It is the man who needs marriage in order for him to feel wanted, needed, purposeful and not left out. However, when a woman decides to establish bonds with him he then thinks he can control, dominate the women and children and make every one???s life a living hell.
      Then when the woman wakes up and says you know what? I don???t need your sorry azz he then breaks down and his world crumbles. He has lost what he so desperately needs in life to feel whole within. But his lack of cooperation, respect and humility causes him to lose much. These experiences are lessons for the male to learn that true wisdom and happiness is not packaged in one???s Ego or illusions of control. And when women exercise their natural divine power to choose how they want to live their life and what is best for their children somehow they are loathsome men haters. Hey, have you forgotten that we decided to give you life? When you rebel against the divine right of motherhood and all that the female espouses (of which you want to be a part of) you rebel against yourself. You will ultimately be miserable and undesirable and incapable of any lasting union with a woman because she will ultimately end up rejecting you and choosing a more suitable male to fulfill her desire and wishes.

    • Posted By: Esencia08 @ 08/11/2008 6:02:21 PM

      To Kevin: Let me make something clear to you, you don't know me but you will respect me! Just because you lack the ability to relate to the knowledge that I have shared in this forum does not give you license to start name calling or attacking my person. Your misconduct is abusive and underscores the very anti-social, misogynistic attitudes that women have to protect themselves and their children from lest the male children in particular grow up to emulate such uncivilized behavior toward women. Your psychological warfare tactics will not work with me buddy! As far as being radical, that is my perogative!

  • Posted By: USMC0351Grunt @ 08/11/2008 4:46:34 AM

    It is obvious that until TRUE EQUALITY is practiced in every aspect of life and living amongst society, women will never acheive anything beyond being a woman. Women fear they cannot tow the line if child support is taken away from them, thereby proclaiming in silence that they are NOT the best solution for raising children. For centuries men have raised and supported their families without outside assistance or coaching and have faced minimal problems while at the same time raising great children. The only thing that a family normally faces losing, (Without court or police assistance), when a woman choses to leave a marriage commitment is one less place setting at the dinner table and one less argument around the house.

    • Posted By: Esencia08 @ 08/11/2008 5:44:59 AM

      To USMC: you wrote "It is obvious that until TRUE EQUALITY is practiced in every aspect of life and living amongst society, women will never acheive anything beyond being a woman."

      The phallacy of equality is another one of those phallic myths perpetrated by misguided men in an attempt to establish an experimental social order called the "great white brotherhood" at the same time espousing the natural law theory of the "right of the strongest" to justify the dominance and violence of males. Now that the gender of natural advantages is finally gaining strength and pre-eminence in society which is faciliating the much needed evolution of the human species on a grand scale you are pining for TRUE EQUALITY in society? Well, I'll tell you what mr. military man, you can start asking for true equality by asking the Secrtary of the Department of Defense to restructure the rank and command structure of the United States Marine Corps. Because the military is one of the most notorius heirarchial, auocratic-- and very unequal in every sense of the word --institutional structures aside from civic government.

      Furthermore, being a Woman is magnificent in many ways, if you are a heterosexual male, you also pine to be close to the womb of the female seeking at the very least an outlet for your testosterone driven urges, and the ecstatic pleasure that only a Woman can uniquely allow you to experience. In any case, Women should have authority in the family and many do. However, confused and psychologically conflicted males such as yourself who are used to being under male authority will find female authority a threat after you have become an adult male who has been indoctrinated in male centered social environments such as the military. But as a child, it is certain that you obeyed the first authority figure whom you depended on for your life and sustenance and that would have been your mother and/or other female guardians. And you would have been disciplined by her as well if you did not follow her rules (one reason for the high statistical figures that say mothers abuse their children). Incidentally, why is it that men do not speak out against the violent abuses that they have to endure in the military at the hands of drill instructors and other higher ranking officers? Good question!

      • Posted By: roadkill1965 @ 08/11/2008 2:18:34 PM

        Esencia08, wow, that's some really spaced-out stuff you're writing in here! At first, I thought it was parody, but it appears you actually believe that drivel! Definitely taken from the man-hating-radical-feminist handbook. I bet you have a copy of the SCUM Manifesto sitting on your bookshelf at home.

        • Posted By: Esencia08 @ 08/11/2008 6:05:22 PM

          roadkill, who do you think you are to attemp to marginalize my perspective as if you have something of more value to contribute to the discussion? You keep talking to me disrespectfully and I will nail your balls to the wall. That will then give you a reason to call me a man-hater!

  • Posted By: JADF @ 08/11/2008 12:45:10 PM

    The courts preach "in the best interests of the children", but they practice "in the best interests of the custodial parent". This is almost always the mother. Her best interests are almost always what she says they are. Hence if the wrong parent is given custody, they are also handed a very powerful weapon with which to damage the other. As long as they don't produce actual physical wounds, they can pretty much use and abuse their children however they wish. They are the legally recognized and supported gatekeeper on any relationship the rejected parent may want to have with his children. Because of this, any conflict they wish to cause is ignored or blamed on the other parent. Everything depends on the custodial parent's willingness to cooperate. If the custodial parent does not want to cooperate, their is nothing the noncustodial parent can do to defend himself. Hence the sole custody model is at the root of the problem and has caused immeasurable grief.

  • Posted By: JADF @ 08/11/2008 12:44:38 PM

    The courts preach "in the best interests of the children", but they practice "in the best interests of the custodial parent". This is almost always the mother. Her best interests are almost always what she says they are. Hence if the wrong parent is given custody, they are also handed a very powerful weapon with which to damage the other. As long as they don't produce actual physical wounds, they can pretty much use and abuse their children however they wish. They are the legally recognized and supported gatekeeper on any relationship the rejected parent may want to have with his children. Because of this, any conflict they wish to cause is ignored or blamed on the other parent. Everything depends on the custodial parent's willingness to cooperate. If the custodial parent does not want to cooperate, their is nothing the noncustodial parent can do to defend himself. Hence the sole custody model is at the root of the problem and has caused immeasurable grief.

  • Posted By: JADF @ 08/11/2008 12:44:19 PM

    The courts preach "in the best interests of the children", but they practice "in the best interests of the custodial parent". This is almost always the mother. Her best interests are almost always what she says they are. Hence if the wrong parent is given custody, they are also handed a very powerful weapon with which to damage the other. As long as they don't produce actual physical wounds, they can pretty much use and abuse their children however they wish. They are the legally recognized and supported gatekeeper on any relationship the rejected parent may want to have with his children. Because of this, any conflict they wish to cause is ignored or blamed on the other parent. Everything depends on the custodial parent's willingness to cooperate. If the custodial parent does not want to cooperate, their is nothing the noncustodial parent can do to defend himself. Hence the sole custody model is at the root of the problem and has caused immeasurable grief.

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