Rise of The Sea Turtles

Melinda, you should learn to be more objective in our comment. No doubt I respect your right to be pro-Western and blind to all the evil things that the US dis and still does to the war: killing the red Indian, dropping the atomic bombs etc. In general the duplicity and hypocrisy that your white friends appear to be so ignorant and insensitive about is the source of all the resentment which you don't ever understand.

If the chinese are standing up for themselves, I guess that means they're trampling on the defenseless, peaceful, and highly cultured Tibetans (as well as other non-ethnic chinese). Tibet doesn't have to be split from china, but at least respect their dignity and culture. Contrary to what those communists would have their sheep believe, Tibetans are human beings.

The average American is pretty ignorant of events happening outside their country, in particular with regard to China. Unfortunately instead of helping their readers gain a better understanding, this so called "free press" in America is obsessed with writing sensational stories picking on negative events in China they think their readers like to read that can sell. Instead of reporting objectively, this constant, morbid, China-bashing yellow journalism, of which the aurhors of the article above are also guility of occasionally, only re-inforce the ignorance, prejudice, and negative stereotypes of Americans who rarely travel outside of their country let alone China but receive their information exclusively from their "free" media. No wonder in a recent survey, Americans view China as their country's third largest enemy, ranking before Russia and North Korea but only behind Iran and Iraq. Seeing all that, is it too much to expect Chinese educated in the West to like the West??

Oh Really - "Young Chinese feel they have the right to speak out about anything", Just try it and you'll be carted off and never heard from again in China. You may survive, if you say anything you want in the USA, but I double dare you to do it in China. Sea Turtles indeed, most likely without tongues when they are in China. Surf the internet wherever the communist party wants you to go, lest you see something about freedom and Democracy! What a crock.

Rockybuddy,
I doubt you ever been to China. If you think the young people in China are wimps, you better think again. I was in GZ recently and I was patiently waiting for my turn in a taxi queue. Suddenly, about 4 young Chinese guys just came along, and cut the queue immediately. Hey! This is a communist country! There should be law and order here. I doubt you get such behaviour in Singapore! It shows to me, that for a country as large and diverse as China, they need an authoritarian govt., otherwise there will be anarchy and chaos.

I don't want to visit china again. In three months there I witnessed and experienced nothing but racism
against white americans and prejudice towards white americans, so I for one have no respect for china
anymore. They lie like the russians. In fact they have a distinct reputation for being liars I found out. Not
that I needed to be told since I witnessed it firsthand.

As they should be, Chinese are proud to be Chinese - but it is not the same as being proud of their Communist Government. In the PRC, we find a country which has learned to make enough people wealthy to stave off rebellion and enough people privileged not to seek power. Any visitor to China, who takes a good look, knows the Chinese pay a big price to be PRC Chinese - they live in a country which doubts the ability of their own people to rule themselves. Instead, a paternalistic organization is given the job of running what by inference is an "unruly" mob and cannot be trusted. Essentially, the Chinese fear themselves and depend on authoritarian means to keep order. The glitzy China most Westerners see is not the China that most Chinese see and it only takes an older Chinese who weathered the Great Leap Backward to remember that this is a time tested practice.

Chinese people are terribly confused about their identity. Chinese are psychologically incapable of separating themselves as individuals from the herd ie group culture. Chinese are hiding behind the skirts of the Chinese Government because it makes them feel secure and powerful.

Nationalism is dead! Nationalism was an important element in political thought in the 19th century but has no place in the 21st century. Chinese hide behind and cling onto their national identity because they feel weak and inferior in the face of successful and power of individuals. Americans will respect Chinese when they surrender this pretense and stand naked and free as individuals and strive to become citizens of the world not just citizens of China.

As a ???thinking??? American I can say Chinese individuals are great people and you should take courage, stand up and show yourselves to the world just as you are, poor, naked and imperfect. Then outsiders will respect you not because they see a person full of wealth and power but because they can see something really special and unique in you that cannot be found anywhere else in the world then people can see something Chinese in you.

>.<....what the hell was that.....Snarky2, I don't know whether I should be offended by that rant or just utterly dissappointed at the level of misconception that litters your comments. As a naturalized Chinese American who is attending college, whose parents emigrated from China to attend US universities, whose cousin is currently attending an American university, I'm going to try to keep your comments from detrimentally affecting other people's opinions of us Chinese.
First of all, there are Chinese people who understand Americans. We live here too! The article does not say that we don't understand Americans; it says Chinese who return to China from overseas tend to have stronger feelings against Western culture. In order to reject something, you first have to understand it because if you don???t understand something, you wouldn???t know how to reject it.

Part 4. In response to xmjiang

The dream you speak of is of course noble & admirable.. I pray you and your country make it without tragic interruptions. ??? all human's strive toward similar goals ??? love their Children and are proud of each one's country. However, economic freedom is not the anti-thesis to prosperity with personnel freedoms/rights of all humans. I believe that with all my soul.

Too many hate America in my view, and I am not sure what exactly we did to deserve this hatred.
But if it is real and deserved, show us a better way rather than only point fingers at us and add to the hate.

I hope to see more of China..and see positive changes over come the areas I fear are going to make life very hard for a China with an authoritarian government.

Question to the people who say over consumption in America, etc. I agree and it may be the downfall of us yet. The obesity rate from over eating is embarrassing and foolish. So I am not saying we are right and others are wrong.

The question is ??? why are 3rd world countries able to over produce people (billions in China and India and Africa) in resource poor areas of the world?
Is that not too... a way of over consumption?
As suggested by xmjiang...it can get much worse as those billions struggle toward our decadent ways.
The post thread suggests Western way is not the only way..for all of our sake..please come up with a good answer for your people. I am all ears. Peace!

I am educated in the West with a Western view..trying hard to be open minded. I hope others like yourself ..can help me see my failings to portray USA well. I am aware we have made many mistakes too. Slavery..Native Americans, woman's suffrage denied far too long -Civil war -Spanish American War ??? Supporting dictatorships in many parts of the world too long and some still.

3rd point. Brave People in China have and are putting much on the line to change the PRC for the better. I visited Tienanmen Square. No plaque marks the hero's and true patriot's final spots ??? so the best I could was to look for where the blood of your brave countrymen washed down the drain.
You are right to be afraid of Revolution..but I am sorry... my Western thoughts and training do not let me think...trade personal freedoms for economic gains.

I live in State who's motto is ???Live Free or Die!??? Too many souls have laid their lives down to protect my Bill of Rights, constitutional protections, to trade such a precious gift and right away for a job, a TV or a new cell phone. I can read what ever I want. In China today. Books are routinely banned by leadership afraid of their own people. Try and find a copy of ???Will the boat sink the water??? about the recent rise of the educated China. The 1 Billion souls I spoke of are not being well served by many of the Sea Turtles described in the Newsweek article. If they are truly educated and literate, I hope they contribute to the many, many challenges they face ??? with Pride and respect for both China and the other people of the world.

I can and do Demand from my government that they govern properly or work to change it..with out a revolution that kills people. The right to gather on the Mall in Washington DC to enact those changes with fellow patriots with out the government grinding unarmed civilians into the paving stones under the treads of Tanks ??? manned by my fellow country man ??? and paid for by my taxes.

Democratic governments mostly change slowly ??? with fits and starts and attempts to damp the winds of ill thought out change. Far from perfect ??? but it all that we have available to work with.

Part # 1b What is happening in PRC is much worse. As you note 1.3 -1.6 Billion people ??? poor land resources ??? mismanagement of toxic chemicals, pharmaceuticals, heavy metals, etc in the land water, aquifers and air will lead to astonishing health issues ??? both physical and mental. The Great Leap Forward failures will look tame compared to tuning the whole country into something like th Gobi desert with waste dumps and lots of cemeteries.
Hence my comment on greed and short term thinking. We had burning rivers and super fund clean up sites from industrialization..but we did not have to. Challenge to Sea Turtle ??? big problems demand leadership and education ??? learn from our mistakes.
Question ??? has your faith/trust in the Communist leadership convinced you they care about the poor souls who are going to pay this price?

Part # 2 ??? Compare Communist China to India...Interesting and I have seen the information you suggested. I have never been to India or know much about it ??? other than the fact that ~ 50 years ago they where roughly 300 million souls and now are 1 Billion +. Obviously doing something other than figuring out how to properly run democratic country...but still busy. We could go place by place around the world ??? but I offer (3) examples of places I have been to.

Maybe others who know more about India can chime in. I, however do not concede your point. China was/is 50 years ago a developing Communist led country. Same people with fewer resources ??? 90 miles off shore...with a more Western outcome to Democracy. I have visited Taiwan..they have done much better with the time than PRC. Are they Safe from PRC???

Go South of China ??? compare 3rd world country ??? North vrs. South Korea. I have been to South Korea.....but of course I can not get into Communist led and PRC supported North. Over 50 years ??? did Communist leadership do better or did democratic methods, messy as they are, provide more for the South Koreans to be proud of?? Will Sea Turtles ever help clean up DPRK?

Lastly ??? before WWII till now ??? USA and Russia/Soviet Union roughly the same size ??? I think objectively ??? USA has given more positive, less corruption, tangible benefits to the world than the now defunct USSR. Marshall plan for Europe ??? getting Japan back in a manner more modern, Science achievements like the silicon chips, auto mobiles, television, mobile phones, medical advancements, space, computers, software, green technologies, nuclear advances ( two edged word of course) and many billions in developing international efforts to be more just. IE: the United Nations ??? not perfect or a USA alone effort. ..more global

In response to xmjiang

Part # 1a ??? Thanks for your feedback and thoughts. You got some of the points I was attempting to make.

Hopefully, you realized I was asking readers to consider from the article, Sea Turtles returning to the PRC will consider Western ways do have merit ??? even in China.
If the West is so horrible that our Sea Turtle visitor's saw..please show USA/West a better way. I have visited China, I am impressed in many, many ways and vastly horrified in others.
I see the Iraq comment vis a vis oil & power. I too, am appalled at the Invasion of Iraq ??? rather than totally going after the cowards who attacked USA on 9/11/2001. Perfect example of poor political leadership using a bait and switch tactic ??? scaring the public into the wrong war, wrong place and for the wrong reasons. Hence ??? of course Democracy is not perfect ( actually very poor till compared to alternatives)
If I had it my way, the Trillion Dollars( not to mention cost of Iraqi and USA/allies lives ??? They could keep Saddam and his rule ??? many other dictatorships would have been his friend). Money wasted in that country could have been invested in alternative energy sources ??? creating jobs & enhancing the USA. You do not need to be a math major to see sending 600+billion dollars a year to oil producing nations is ridiculous.
I do get to work in my system ??? by voting, lobbying, donations of time and money to change that leadership ??? non violently. Time will tell if like thinking Americans are successful.
You are correct that USA is benefiting from many important investments in hydro power, an abundance of resources relative to population size.
Great to see and hear alternatives like solar are making gains in PRC. ESP with the Gobi desert ??? Go China ??? a central Government may get something done ??? eve if it is 50 % into corrupt pockets. Let' see in 5 years what China has done.??? Some countries in Europe & South America have managed to be energy independent with out massive pollution.

Point about pollution and what I witnessed in PRC. I am an engineer, trained to understand the effects of pollution, chemical poisons and the effects on human beings. When I mentioned the Great Leap Forward ??? we where talking negative impacts( death/severe hardships) on less than 20 million souls. Horrible ??? yes..and pure mismanagement as the root cause ??? 25 + years ago true ??? but same government institution.
Those mistakes pale in comparison to what could happen in PRC if serious efforts are not taken to combat the pollution toll. Industrialization is a process with positive and negative effects. Lead poisoning largely eradicated the Roman empire Pb in the water pipes/dishes/etc.