Appeasing Russia

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  • Posted By: Clio @ 08/12/2008 1:35:16 PM

    Blind, blind, blind... you are. Last Thursday Georgian Army tried to retake their breakaway province of South Ossetia with intend of ethnical cleansing, killed Russian citizens, soldiers/piecekeepers. Georgians are arrogant bunch, had their own motives. Mr . Saakashvili should resign step down - he was not choosen in truly democratic vote - end bloodshed, end corruption. Russia has right to punish Georgia for death of Russian citizens as much as US had a right to punish Taliban in Afganistan and Sadam in Iraq after death of 3,000+ on 9/11.. And ok, look at the history..- remember Joseph Stalin - Georgian, responsible millions of death, ethnical cleansing.. could be a long discussion. US/ West should stay away from Russian affairs.

    • Posted By: odobade1 @ 08/12/2008 1:45:15 PM

      ballsh.t! that's what russian media reports. And we all know their "truth"

      • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/12/2008 3:07:15 PM

        And what does the US media report?

        • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:58:09 AM

          Atleast with US media you can take in NBC -get the left view Fox- get the right view. The newspapers- get the silly left view Talk Radio- get the silly right view and come to your own conclusion. In russia you get the Russian government view. and you can read older newspapers whose editors are dead oh wait those have been removed from the library who needs old news anyway.

          • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 4:12:29 PM

            Based on your opinions, I take it you watch Fox, lol. The US has many conspiracies of it's own. Don't kid yourself. Look within before you point fingers.

      • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/12/2008 3:06:30 PM

        And what about the US media?

  • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/12/2008 1:38:54 PM

    McCain has been among the most ardent supporters of the War in Iraq -- the most disastrous foreign policy decision in American history.

    McCain falsely claims that, from the beginning of the war, he called on former Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld to resign. He should have, but he didn't.

    McCain thinks it's "not too important" when American forces come home from Iraq.

    McCain has repeatedly claimed that Iran was training members of al-Qaeda in Iraq, showing a fundamental misunderstanding of the key players in the war. He doesn't understand the difference between Shiites and Sunnis, and even after being corrected he still doesn't get it.

    McCain falsely claimed that the surge was what led to the Anbar Awakening, even though the Sunni revolt against al-Qaeda in the province began months before Bush even announced his plan to send more troops to Iraq.

    McCain falsely claimed at the end of May that American troops in Iraq were down to "pre-surge levels" (brandished as proof that the surge was "succeeding") -- even though two-thirds of the additional surge troops were still in Iraq. And, when called on his mistake, he refused to acknowledge that he was wrong.

    McCain falsely claimed that the war in Iraq was "the first major conflict since 9/11" -- either forgetting about the war in Afghanistan or deeming it not major enough. This is not all that surprising, since McCain's policies on Afghanistan -- the real central front in the war on terror -- have been all over the map. Indeed, McCain first attacked Obama's policy on Afghanistan, then adopted it for himself.

    McCain has a long history of paying lip service to supporting America's troops but voting against their interests. His handling of the new GI bill was the latest example of his hypocrisy: he consistently and vocally worked to defeat it, then, once it passed, tried to take credit for it.

    Need more proof of why McCain is not "ready to lead"? Do you want a president who thinks there is an "Iraq/Pakistan border"?

    Who believes Darfur is in Somalia? And that Czechoslovakia is still a country?

    • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:54:51 AM

      I would think with all that typing you would atleast get something correct but you didn't.

      The Surge was a supplement to the plan already in place by Petreaus. Petreaus was working with the tribal leaders and needed the Surge to demonstrate American resolve at protecting Iraqi Interests.

      This war is not a disaster unless we lose and the only way that will happen is if Barak takes control and scuttles the efforts of our servicemen.

      • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 4:06:30 PM

        The US has lost the war you in-bred!

  • Posted By: haynessemperfi @ 08/12/2008 1:40:29 PM

    First, I find it odd that President Bush should comment about anyone illegally invading a country. He invaded not one but two.

    Second, anyone knowledgeable of history saw this war or a New Soviet Union emerging after the fall of the first Soviet Union. I saw it in high school. It started when Bush I supported lame duck President Yeltzin. So yes, Europeans are correct in blaming Bush but they are blaming the wrong Bush. Yeltzin, who was seen as a puppet to the West, became the catalyses sparking today???s anti-Western sentiment in Russia. The weak rule and corruption under Yeltzin laid the foreground for Putin and others to come. A simple look into European history will prove me right: France after the fall of Napoleon, Germany after the Treaty of Versailles, etc.

    In the end, history will show that we should of listened to the advise of Mikhail Gorbachev and his dream for a United Federation of Russian States. This union would of allowed Russia to maintain its borders, promote democracy from the inside out and control its military and nuclear hardware. We would have a stronger Russia to help us fight terrorism and we wouldn???t be worried about former Soviet nukes in the hands of Muslim fundamentalist.

    • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:49:00 AM

      I think the biggest problem with the collapse of the Soviet Union was when the communists left the only people who had money were the criminals because law abiding citizens couldn't make a profit under the communist system. Therefor the drug dealers, the pimps and the black marketeers became the new capitalists and everything went to hell. I am not sure if there was a better way to do it but it definetly handicapped the economy.

      • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 4:03:35 PM

        And I suppose US's economy is in much better shape? Law abiding citizens can't make a profit under the democratic system too, so what is your point?

  • Posted By: kejstut300 @ 08/12/2008 2:11:14 PM

    There are many ways we can bring the russians back in lina:
    Restrict passports, limit trade, stop buying oil from them, and so on.
    Isolate them, essential to avoid war.

    • Posted By: Peter Moscow @ 08/12/2008 3:39:15 PM

      Are you blind my foreign friend? This is Russia who can speculate on this. This is russia who can isolate half of Europe. Russia is the only country who can help USA influence Iran. Russia is the only country who has the red button and can annihilate USA and the rest of the world. And this "rest of the world" is too week to bark at us! For the first time in my life i'm really proud that i'm Russian!

      • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:43:43 AM

        I'm glad you had a moment of Pride just before you were destroyed along with the rest of the world.

        • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 4:00:44 PM

          I think you forgot to take your med.

  • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/12/2008 4:06:01 PM

    Bush is such a hypocrite! First he attacks Iraq based on a lie, now he is telling Russia what to do? Who the heck does he think he is? As far as I'm concerned, it's Bush's fault. He set a bad example for the rest of the world. And now anyone will do as they please just as Bush did. Especially when the US is no longer the superpower it once was. Let alone it's military being stretched so thin and on the brink of self destruction.

    • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:40:53 AM

      are you always this stupid or are you just on a role tonight?

      • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 3:58:32 PM

        Is that the best you could come up with? What is this, high school? And what kind of name is "onepoker"? Must of used your last brain cell on that one.

  • Posted By: aquarius1 @ 08/12/2008 5:28:30 PM

    US also invaded Iraq a soveriegn country with whom they dont even share a common border to grab its oil that too in 21st century. Either Bush has no right to say like this for Russia when US iteself is acting like a world bully. Look at your own house before lecturing other people.

    • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:34:53 AM

      Your an idiot.

      • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 3:54:25 PM

        The truth hurts doesn't it onepoker?

  • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/12/2008 5:35:11 PM

    Nobody is listening to the US anymore. They have no credibility. The US preaches democracy but doesn't walk the talk.

    • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:29:36 AM

      Oh we walk it just fine its just the socialist europeans and the left wing Americans don't understand just how important the big stick we carry really is.

      • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 3:50:54 PM

        Your arrogance blinds you. Do you really believe the US is the only who carries a "big stick"?

  • Posted By: torpedoman @ 08/12/2008 5:54:46 PM

    The U.S. is helpless in this our forces are wore out both the men and the machines from a 2 front war we have going on at the moment there is no way to support a third front. Maybe we could arm and send congress over there to act as peace keepers that way we would all be safer.

    • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:25:48 AM

      We aren't worn out yet quit reading the paper and talk to the troops. I am not advocating sending troops just saying if we need them they will be there. One possible solution is a take no crap policy in Iraq. We pull everyone out except a reactionary force and support them with a full fledged air force. If anyone acts out in Iraq while we are gone we decimate the whole neighborhood. You may think this is barbaric and you are correct welcome to a real war where Americas interests must come first.

      • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 3:48:29 PM

        Onepoker, your a redneck. Is that why the troops are committing suicide in Iraq? And I guess your "take no crap" policy explains the thousands of innocent civilians being killed in Iraq.

  • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/12/2008 6:31:13 PM

    Putin is more honorable than Bush anyday.

    • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/12/2008 6:36:56 PM

      Sorry, this reply was intended for "shewantsnorevenge" post.

      • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:22:32 AM

        What are you a lost soviet?

        • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 3:42:27 PM

          Russia isn't the one who needs to overhaul it's foreign policy like the US. So you tell me who is lost?

  • Posted By: RICHARD G @ 08/12/2008 6:34:19 PM

    WHAT HAS THIS GOT TO DO WITH GEORGE BUSH OR IRAQ, STAY FOCUS ON THE QUESTION

    • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/12/2008 6:40:57 PM

      Richard, Richard, Richard....Bush is telling Russia what to do when he is a hypocrite. Thats what this has to do with "George and Iraq."

      • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:22:04 AM

        George Bush had the backing of the UN and we tried years of negotiations before we invaded. The Russians gave it an afternoon then bombed the airport cut the country in half and killed a ton of civillians.

        • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 3:39:56 PM

          Hairy Bush didn't have the backing of the UN! And what negotiations? F*** your delusional! Were you watching this unfold from the moon? Or maybe Bush was your source. Get your facts straight!

  • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/12/2008 6:43:32 PM

    Why did the Americans re-elect Bush for a second term anyways? Was it because the rednecks outnumbered the educated?

    • Posted By: haynessemperfi @ 08/12/2008 7:27:40 PM

      America is not the only country to reelect a the village idiot to office. Venenula did it.

      But to attempt to answer your question, it was because of the issue of gay marriage. Bush used the issue to get so called "Christians" of the Right to come to the polls. Futhermore, the Dems left the door wide open by not promoting Kerry as the people and ingoring the Anti-war movement until 2006 when they promised to end the war if they had a Democratic Senate. Lastly, Bush bought the election but no one talks about that. In every election Bush was in, there were major voting irregularities. Oddly, our democratic government, who will spend millions on foreign wars to promote democracy, decided to fix the problem by buying electronic voting machines from Cheney's buddies. Promote democracy elsewhere but forgot about democracy at home.

      Vote for Real Change and a Real Democracy
      Vote Nader 2008
      www.votenader.org

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/12/2008 8:30:50 PM

        Fraud and State Police roadblocks to keep minorities from polls.

        • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:20:32 AM

          Or maybe because Republicans are more inline with the thinking of the average american than the left wing lunatics the Democrats keep throwing up.

          • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 3:22:12 PM

            Whatever onepoker bush.

  • Posted By: adyaryan @ 08/12/2008 9:08:42 PM

    Using the dempgraphics of Russian or Russia-friendly populations in neighboring states,as an excuse for naked military aggression will only be challenged if, instead of removing U.S. residents from the area, America sends in a brigade of the 101st Airborne . Even if no military engagement is intended, the very presence, on the ground, of U.S. troops will serve as a dire warning to Moscow to watch its step. Moscow is adept at taking thr first steps in provocation, but push-comes-to-shove, I doubt tthe Russians have the stomach for an open and wider confrontation with the West. Europe, sadly, will not upset it's supply line for abundant natural gas from the East. Only the U.S. has the power and the will to stop Russia cold in what is its first major flexing of military muscles since the Coold war. Georgia must stand as a symbol of the will to preserve democracy in the former Soviet area od dominion.

    • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 3:16:40 PM

      LOL, if that was the case with US's military, then I'am sure they would have. Wake up Stan Lee.

  • Posted By: onepoker @ 08/13/2008 12:03:19 AM

    Well where are all the protests? The whole world rises up and protests America after we invade Iraq to overthrow a dictator yet not a single hippy has marched in the streets of Paris or London or San Fransisco demanding a cessation of hostilities from the Russians. Perhaps they know the truth the Russians don't care unlike the Americans and as bad as we were ten minutes ago they should also realize we are the only hope for the Georgians. Maybe we should let Europe handle this themselves and wait to intervene until after Poland falls.

    • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 3:05:08 PM

      Also, it wasn't the hippies who protested, it was the educated. The hippies stayed home and did nothing. And about Iraq, it was dictator versus dictator, Hussein versus Bush. And don't tell me the US actually cared about what happened to the Kurds. Because if they did, they would of did something about it then and not many years later. The US acted out of there own interests.

    • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 2:58:11 PM

      First, the Russians' attack isn't based on a lie and second, the Russians' are defending.

  • Posted By: piinalu @ 08/13/2008 2:20:07 PM

    I'm relieved to see some responses questioning the quality of this article. It's really not well thought out and the kind of shallow analysis that can get a nation into some serious trouble. Hopefully we've learned our lesson and will take a smart stand instead of a macho one.

  • Posted By: Joe Z. @ 08/13/2008 2:16:52 PM

    When the only tool you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail. Similarly, when the only history you know is Hitler every problem looks like WW2 part 2. If only John Barry knew enough about history to understand WWI and how it was caused by the web of secret alliances among powers then he could understand how foolish it was for George Bush to embolden Georgia with false hope that we would engage in a hot war with Russia on their behalf.

  • Posted By: Sickrat @ 08/13/2008 4:20:14 AM

    In the newly emerging global dispensation, as the American economic might declines in relative terms, and as its relative military might is sure to decline as well, Russia is no enemy but a battleground. If the West continues to antagonize Russia despite its assistance in Afghanistan and North Korea, and despite Russia's sizeable economic assistance in the form of US Treasury bill holdings, we might see an Oceania-Eurasia conflict predicted by Orwell. Pushing Russia into China's embrace is highly unhelpful in light of the West's energy needs. The current conflict may affect Russia's pipeline route choices, and once the pipes run eastwards, Russia will have locked itself into an alliance with China. Thankfully, it's not a done deal yet. In Georgia, the West could still stand for the principles it proclaims elsewhere and give Saakashvili the treatment once reserved for its former allies Noriega, Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden. The Georgian people are fully capable of democratically electing some other US-educated lawyer parachuted from Washington.

    • Posted By: OneManArmy @ 08/13/2008 1:42:24 PM

      Too late, Russia and China support each other in secret. And so it should be. Welcome new leaders of the world, goodbye US.

  • Posted By: papa_fryer @ 08/13/2008 1:12:12 PM

    John Barry, should never ever write another article without at least doing some home work first. Reading wikipedia ain't it, my friend. Oversimplified and at the same time understated, wow that is some kind of special gift. Bush really need to talk to that puppet of his, for putting him on the spot with perhaps the most important potential ally - Russia, lets not forget, this world can be destroyed by USA and Russia.

  • Posted By: celeste47 @ 08/13/2008 1:02:30 PM

    Right on the money Sickrat! The WORLD appeased the US in their invasion into Iraq where more than 700,000 civilians died for doing absolutely NOTHING to the US. This is not the time of WWI or WWII. Today Russia controls too muvh of the energy for the European nations and they can cut off the valve at any time. Not only that, who will go up against nations with military power of Russia/China/US/India/ or any other nuclear nation? Today is a different world where diplomacy has to win out or after the so called leaders of the US and Russia get finished with each other, energy will no longer be such a problem because we could all be dead..

  • Posted By: Sickrat @ 08/13/2008 12:41:14 PM

    Russia appeased the US-lead lynching club over Yugoslavia, Iraq, Kosovo, and Afghanistan.
    It played along in the UN Security Council, supplied weapons to fight Taleban, and provided access facilities. No wonder the enemy is now at the gates. Why don't we all, East and West, say our last prayers just in case?

  • Posted By: david-fahey @ 08/13/2008 11:56:00 AM

    i have to disagree with some of your piece. the u.s. is in a worse position than in 1937-38 when the nazi's marched into the czech rep. many with only a few round of ammo on them. forget the un, it is political. on the military side the allies were in a much stronger position, or so they thought. the french had 1 mil men and reserves manning the Maganot line. the allies had armour to match the nazi's, used it poorly or better the nazi's brilliantly and w/o mercy. the brits had one of the worlds best fleets. they had fighters the equal of the nazi's and better heavy bombers in place and on drawing boards. the u.s by contrast was unarmed thanks to conservative doctrine. they(allies) gave away the czech's and gained time and continued to build forces and political capital w/u.s.. hardly a soft position but real politic at it's best. it could draw on the u.s.. for arms as long as they could pay and FDR was ahead of the C's on recognizing the nazi menace(many industrialists/C's admired hitler thus allowing him to run wild) and he was willing to supply weapons. the u.s. today has europe/nato, an empty shell as a military threat. the u.s. army is occupied and this prez despite warnings went to war w/o a draft or money(read tax money). the machines of the military are in need of replacement and parts are needed from around the world(including china a potential enemy)it took bushies 5yrs to come up with blast resistant vehicles. A F planes are worn. reserves are spent force. country is broke and in debt to out most likely foes-russia and china. and if RR defeated the ussr who just marched into georgia while this prez was at the olympics w/putin? maybe the R's took that victory lap to soon? i notice the prez did not rush back to d.c. what is most troubling is the fact that the prez and the cia and military were by most accounts surprised. we have spent billions of dollars on security measures and intel that could track gov. spitzers hooker payments but missed thousands of russian troops on the move? are the R's really better able to defend america- i think not. the u.s. is close to the nazi's problem with weapons. many are either to complex or to expensive to take to battle(see; battle of jutland sea), or cannot be massed produced in strategic numbers. or just do not work as advertised. and with an M1 tank consuming 1 gallon of fuel per 400 YARDS, we do not have the oil to run 'em w/o taking over canada and the america's(our real strategic oil reserve depots). we have a prez and a party, the GOP, who are so greedy they are unwilling to pay taxes to support the G I's . but the upside is maybe the R's/C's will understand chamberlin's 1938 position. more likely they will balme bill clinton somehow.

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