Appeasing Russia

The Russian ambassador to the United Nations, Vitaly Churkin told CNN his country is seeking details on what started the fighting.

"We do not want to believe that the United States has given a green light to this adventurous act," he said. "But our American colleagues are telling us that they're investigating now what may have happened in the channels of communication for Mr. Saakashvili to have behaved in such a reckless manner."

President Bush, one day earlier, had called the Russian invasion unacceptable, and on Tuesday the Russian president assailed the West for supporting Georgia. "International law doesn't envision double standards," Medvedev said.

U.S. officials were focused on confirming a cease-fire and attending to Georgia's urgent humanitarian needs.

"The Russians need to stop their military operations as they have apparently said that they will, but those military operations really do now need to stop because calm needs to be restored," Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said.

A U.S. senior defense official in Washington said the U.S. has decided to dump a major NATO naval exercise with Russia that was scheduled to begin Friday.

Georgia, which is pushing for NATO membership, borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union.

South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since fighting to split from Georgia in the early 1990s. Both separatist provinces are backed by Russia, which appears open to absorbing them.

Medvedev said Georgia must allow the provinces to decide whether they want to remain part of Georgia.

"Ossetians and Abkhaz must respond to that question taking their history into account, including what happened in the past few days," Medvedev said grimly.

Medvedev said Russian peacekeepers would stay in both provinces, even as Saakashvili said his government will officially designate them as occupying forces.

In Tbilisi, U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Matthew Bryza declined to say whether the U.S. would provide military support if Russia expands its assault.

Georgia sits on a strategic oil pipeline carrying Caspian crude to Western markets and bypassing Russia. The British oil company BP shut down one of three Georgian pipelines, saying it was a precaution.

Source: www.reuters.com

Titled: US has very Few Options


The Bush administration has pushed hard for Georgia to join NATO, against European misgivings and Russian fury at the idea.

"Saakashvili was discouraged from attacking Russian troops in South Ossetia but he clearly never was told point blank 'If you do it, you are on your own,'" said Moscow-born Simes, who was an informal adviser to President Richard Nixon.

'SAKASHVILLI'S, MISCALCULATION' !!!

Charles Kupchan of the Council on Foreign Relations, agreed that U.S. encouragement may have made Saakashvili "miscalculate" and send Georgian troops into South Ossetia.

"I think in many respects Saakashvili got too close to the United States and the United States got too close to Saakashvili," Kupchan said. "It made him overreach, it made him feel at the end of the day that the West would come to his assistance if he got into trouble."

Bush told Russia on Monday to reverse course or risk jeopardizing relations with the United States.

But Washington has limited leverage over Moscow after years of strained relations on a range of issues from Iraq to the United States' insistence on placing missile defenses in Europe, the analysts said.

The next U.S. president will inherit that chilly relationship. Both presidential candidates -- Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama -- have called for diplomacy to resolve the conflict over Georgia's breakaway regions.

"When you have very thin relations, it doesn't give you a lot of diplomatic tools," said Steven Pifer, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine who is now a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution. "There are not a lot of things in terms of U.S.-Russian cooperation that we can threaten to stop, that the Russians care about."

Source: www.reuters.com

Sakashvilli: Miscalculated what he Thought, America would do for him. He tried to get us involved in a Big Mess, knowing all the Issues America was confronting, Iraq, Afghanistan, Our World Standing, Domestic issues and so on. America should Realize now, that Sakashvilli is a Loose Canon, a Devious and Overly Ambitous Man, that will do Anything, for his own Political Ascention, above all else. No American should lay down their Lives for that Ruler or his People. It was "Unthinkable" that the Sakashvilli and his Georgian Nation thought that they could (Retake Osettia) with Russian Peace Keepers already established in Osettia , an with Reinforcements at it's very call !!!

Despite warnings by President George W. Bush for Russia to "Reverse the Course it appears to be on" and withdraw its Troops to avert a "Dramatic and Brutal Escalation" of Violence," U.S. military intervention in the small former Soviet republic is nearly unthinkable, analysts said on Monday.

There also is little Washington can do diplomatically to restrain the Russians, according to foreign policy experts.

"Let me say at this point that there are no good solutions. Either we have to try to remove them (the Russians) by force or accept a humiliating defeat," said Dimitri Simes, founding president of the Nixon Center in Washington.

"It is not a happy situation, and we did not have to have this situation, and I think the (Bush) Administration has Considerable Responsibility for that."

Georgian forces entered separatist South Ossetia last week, trying to retake the pro-Russian enclave that broke away in the 1990s. Moscow, which supports South Ossetia's independence, responded by sending its troops into Georgia proper.

Georgia has appealed for international intervention and pulled its battered forces back to defend the capital, Tbilisi, as Russian troops pushed deeper into its territory, ignoring Western pleas to halt.

Big Note: Simes said U.S. encouragement of Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, one of Washington's staunchest allies, may have led him to believe he could Get Away With Military Action to (Take Back Control of South Osettia)

Comparing Russia with Germany in the 30's is paranoiac or worst, it is manipulative. Hitler's Germany invaded countries out of its historical sphere of influence, clearly trying to expand, whereas Russia is trying to keep it influence in Caucasus, which the US is actively attempting to reduce. Bush attempts to introduce former soviet nations into NATO is a provocation that Hitler did not have. What would the US do if Canada or Mexico were to sign a military pact with Russia or China? Russia is in self defense mode. Differences between Russia and Hitler's Germany are clear, please do not manipulate Europe history.

Comparing Russia with Germany in the 30's is paranoiac or worst, it is manipulative. Hitler's Germany invaded countries out of its historical sphere of influence, clearly trying to expand, whereas Russia is trying to keep it influence in Caucasus, which the US is actively attempting to reduce. Bush attempts to introduce former soviet nations into NATO is a provocation that Hitler did not have. What would the US do if Canada or Mexico were to sign a military pact with Russia or China? Russia is in self defense mode. Differences between Russia and Hitler's Germany are clear, please do not manipulate Europe history.

The proper response to this is to go forward with a full scale missile defense system in all the Nato countries bordering Russia. Backed by a bolstered NATO defense force. Of course some people think that it would be better if we just surrendered now turned over whatever countries they want back to them and hope it stops before it gets past Poland.
Neville Chamberland or WInston Churchill? Barak Obama or John MCCain?

Its your choice America stand up now or fight from our heels later. We need a full blown fully funded coveert operation inside of Russia to restore democracy you can bet our old nemises is working overtime right here in the open and easy USA with every intent of stealing every political and weapon secret they can. The cold war just chilled up and we are caught unprepared. It is time to go back to work.

I hope the lefties are smart enough not to fall under Russian Influence this go around but it is probably already to late.

Nancy Pelosi why are you standing in the way of energy independence?
Barak Obama are you sure its a good idea to disarm all of our nukes?

America are you willing to give up freedom for an oppresive peace?

People need to wake up and see the Russian Facists for who they are. Jusft as in 1938 and 1939, only so many nations will fall under their boot before it becomes a World War

Only a fool would want war with Russia.Send troops to georgia they would never get off the beach.Georgia leader was a fool.8000 nuclear warheads in
Russia and money from high oil prices to polish them.Get real Georgia is lucky they stop.McCain is out of touch and dangerous.

whether russian invasion to protect s ossetia is right or wrong is not the question...if saddam was punished for invading kuwait, then why was nt ssakashvilli hanged for killing defenseless ossetians? we already have the kosovo model to support ossetia, right?

Proposition: Russia???s objective is to rule the world.
Proof: Russia seeks to restore itself to Soviet Union size by the admission of Russian leadership (calling the fall of the Soviet Union the greatest catastrophe in the 20th century, promising to protect its interests in any country by any means, including military). Russia, like other countries and people, prefers more to less. If given the choice between the Soviet Union territory and that plus one other territory Russia will choose the second option. In a choice between Soviet Union plus one and Soviet Union plus two countries again the second choice is made. Iterating this argument we get that Russia would most prefer to rule the entire world.

The method Russia seems to be using in gaining its objective of restoring the Soviet Union is to separate a piece from another country and then move in its ???piecekeepers??? to keep that piece for itself.
In conclusion, the international community should make plans for reacting to the next Russian attack on its neighbour. The present reaction is inadequate since Russian forces are still moving deeper into Georgia. The next attack will come since the invasion of Georgia is premeditated and part of a bigger plan (Robert Kagan???s Aug. 11 article in The Washington Post). There are also plenty of ???frozen conflict??? opportunities that Russia can warm up ??? Nagorno-Karabakh in Azerbaijan, Eastern Ukraine that is mainly Russian-speaking, Transdniestria in Moldova, the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad between Poland and Lithuania (access rights for example), the mainly Russian-speaking Ida-Virumaa region of Estonia.

A couple of points:
1 In the international media the background to the Russian-Georgian war is given starting from last week and the bombing of Tshinvali. The military conflict has actually been going on for some years with Russian military planes flying over Georgia and ???unidentified??? bombs and rockets falling into Georgia.
2 The cyberattacks on Georgia started a day before the bombing of Tshinvali.
3 The Russian citizens in South Ossetia to whose aid Russia purportedly rushed were manufactured by Russia in the last few years. Russia simply handed out its passports to anyone who wanted them in South Ossetia.
4 The claim that a war is to defend civilians is ridiculous from a logical standpoint alone. Any peace is better than war for civilians. A country whose primary goal was to protect civilians would not go to war or if it was already in one would withdraw as quickly as possible. That applies to all wars, not just the present one in Georgia.
5 Russia claims that the South Ossetians chose independence from Georgia in a referendum in 2004. A fair referendum in Russian-controlled territory is a contradiction in terms but perhaps South Ossetians really prefer to secede. If Russia wants Ossetians to be independent, it should first grant independence to North Ossetia that is currently part of Russia. That would be a very powerful argument in favour of South Ossetian independence. Russia of course just wants to expand its territory and will incorporate South Ossetia into itself, not give it independence.
6 Russia claims Georgia has perpetrated genocide in South Ossetia. Considering the number of international advisers, consultants, monitors and no doubt spies in Georgia now a genocide would have been noticed very quickly. No other sources besides Russian ones have confirmed the genocide allegations however. A genocide can be carried out relatively unnoticed only in remote and isolated territories where a great power is denying access to the international community. That happened for example in Chechenya where Russia strongly discouraged international observation.
7 There are many similarities between the rhetoric and behaviour of Germany in 1938 and Russia in 2008, for example the defending of one???s citizens abroad argument, accusing a smaller country of attacking a larger one, claiming that the world is biased against them, fostering separatism and ethnic conflict in its neighbours??? territories. Carl Bildt drew some good parallels between Russia and Hitler???s Germany in a recent article.
8 On the internet the Russian viewpoint is more widely represented than the Georgian simply because the number of potential commenters and bloggers in Russia is much larger than in Georgia.

The commentator of this article should be immediately fired for inseminating hatred and propaganda and twisting the history. Russia is a huge nuclear power, and apparently it's not enough for the author that we are already conducting two wars in such far away places from USA that not many people can find them on the map for reasons unknown and with progress.....highly questionable. It is not enough for the author that our economy is down the drain because of the all debt we have incurred.

The worst part of it all is that the U.S. media circus couldn't give a sh*t about Georgia. Most know and don't wan to know nothing of it's culture, movies, wines - all the things that are quite famous in Russia (gasp!!). And most wouldn't care to find out about the ethnic conflicts and wars that Georgia has been since the collapse of the Soviet Union with it's breakaway regions populated by ethnically different populations.

No part of Georgia has been occupied, by Russia so far, and apart from bombing a few military bases there doesn't to be appear to be real damage or real regime change done in the style of Iraq, Afghanistan, or Serbia, or the banana republics. Putin is no saint, but how insane do you have to be to equate this small regional conflict with Nazi takeover of the world?!!!

The real shameful part is that probably the likes of Putin were brought to the power in Russia, because of the perceived threat to Russia by NATO continued expansion with US military bases and weapons right onto it's borders. If the West doesn't want to include Russia as it's member, then what is the purpose of the alliance?