Pushing Russia’s Buttons

« Return to Article

Discuss

Member Comments

  • Posted By: quique11000 @ 08/12/2008 9:21:44 PM

    Well said by Mr Hirsh

    And by the way, his point of view was voiced by Mr P Buchanan and many other conservatives when the US started to push for NATO membership 10 years ago? Having an ABM system in their backyard was a short sighted idea. I always wondered from the day Bush started to talk about the ABM, at which point would the Russians attack? I mean, we would not like to have an ABM system in Venezuela would we?

    The only thing that surprises me is that the Russians didnt go fully into georgia and took over to prevent NATO or ABM.s or American advisers.

  • Posted By: global_tutor @ 08/12/2008 8:27:23 PM

    What is most important is the human tragedy that is happening in these very moments as a result of brutal military intervention. Actually there are presidents of Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine and Estonia in the capital of Georgia Tbilisi protesting against Russian invasion on the independent, democratic country. It is serious blow into the current peace and stability in the whole region. Russia is taking control over the area also because of its significant importance as oil transit route to CEE region and Western Europe. Energy supplier hegemony is being created in the 21st century by brutal force and greed of a Russian government. CEE region governments have already been threatened by the Russian ambassadors against taking any action and promised to pay consequences for their harsh rhetoric.

  • Posted By: AncientHistoryYear @ 08/12/2008 8:26:45 PM

    Mr. Hirsh,
    If you were walking down a street and you saw an 18-year-old beating up on a 10-year-old would you try to do something about it? I bet you would. Especially if you'd been encouraging the ten-year-old to stand up for himself for the last few years, and advised him to stop giving the bully all his milk money. Don't pardon the bully. It's not good for your soul, sir.

  • Posted By: Jim1348 @ 08/12/2008 8:23:41 PM

    The Neocons are losing the old stuff. They haven't blamed it on Jimmy Carter yet.

  • Posted By: rex range @ 08/12/2008 6:09:34 PM

    Wow. I wondered which liberal moron would pop his or her head up to "Blame America" and/or "Blame Bush" for this unconscionable and totally unprovoked action by Russia...and right on schedule, here you are! I am so glad liberal, ant-American, anti-Republican, anti-Christian f____s like you are passing from the media scene and that "We, the People" are now so organized on the Internet that your words mean little or nothing anymore. I'm just ticked that any American media outlet would still dishonor the public debate on this or any issue by continuing to shovel your garbage out there. Oh well: This too shall pass.

    • Posted By: emmarcee @ 08/12/2008 8:03:33 PM

      Range , don't go that way. It is the truth. Don't we always keep a blind eye to our family's problem? just the same thing. It is not just Bush. It is the policy.

  • Posted By: Raleigh @ 08/12/2008 7:59:35 PM

    Yes, indeed, Emperor George and His Ministers have acted with hubris at practically every turn, not only in purposefully trying to alienate Russia, but in impoverishing millions of the citizens of the nation they rule over, murdering countless persons in their "War of Liberation" in Iraq after lying to US citizens about just why they were forcing this war upon them and the hapless Iraqis. Where are the impeachments? Where are the indictments? I am aghast that this gang of thugs in Washington, D.C. dare to take the "moral high ground" tone of voice with anyone, anywhere.

  • Posted By: emmarcee @ 08/12/2008 7:58:11 PM

    I can't beleieve US keeps such good relationship with China but tries to elbow down Russia. Georgia was used as a pawn and they got hit for that. Now I think we should just back down a nd mind our own interest, rather than feed an arms race.

  • Posted By: Jim1348 @ 08/12/2008 7:02:19 PM

    You haven't said the half of it. By destabilizing the Middle East and pushing up the price of oil, W. has also financed Russia's recovery and rearmament. And Americans seem profoundly unaware that Vladimir is a very, very smart guy. They seem to think that it irrelevant in a leader. At least those who voted for W. do.

  • Posted By: masonwl @ 08/12/2008 6:52:20 PM

    Stupid, stupid are we willing to break out the Nukes children? The Gop is so stupid with all there tough talk! All they do is talk trash and do nothing. Our country is so broke and our Military is so beaten up from that War in Iraq. And these guys are talking more trash, and making more threats Russia knows we are not going to do anything.

    Oh I know lets take out another loan from China and lets fight Russia. Just think back during Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 just think if McCain was president. You would all be dead and all of your children would be dead. Thank God Obama has a cooler head than hot headed Mcwar; that thru his first wife under the bus!

    Just think back during Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962 just think if McCain was president we would all be dead your children and my children.

  • Posted By: tatanka @ 08/12/2008 5:34:28 PM

    How unbelievably simplistic this writer is! We have indeed helped these free states to establish themselves in a world market. These free states have the right to persue free markets. Freedom is a free market. It is not the West's fault for one second that Russia has attacked this free country. How stereotypical that this runny-nosed week-kneed liberal has blamed America for the expansionist act of an autocracy. How predictable

    • Posted By: LeoDeo @ 08/12/2008 5:36:39 PM

      Maybe Russia is going to attack you next, you should run.

  • Posted By: rdupuy@umpublishing.org @ 08/12/2008 12:43:43 PM

    We somehow don't learn from history, Adolf Hitler was democratically elected, so was Hamas (considered to be a terrorist group) in Lebanon. The fact that the Georgian strong-man Saakashvili was elected, is as indisputable as it is irrelevant. The South Ossetians were being destroyed, and only one nation stepped into the breach to save them. That was Russia. And without the assurance that the Georgian military has been destroyed, not sane person could move their family into an area where a genocide had just occurred and the status quo had been re-established so it could occur again... without going into Georgia to disable their military, Georgia would have succeeded in driving the Ossetians out of their ancient homeland.

    The tragedy here, is western nations don't recognize the true borders of Georgia and keep claiming Ossetia is part of Georgia, when in fact, its an independent nation. Ossetians have their own language, own culture, and until the early 90's lived peacably with their neighbors, what changed was the new government of Georgia tried to destroy them....thats what led to the breakup with Georgia, that what lead to these 'peace keepin'g forces..in place until last week.

    OK, so just grant them independence already. Georgia can join nato, without ossetia and abkhazia, they have no right to these people lands, to destroy their language, to educate their children...just let them live in peace.

    • Posted By: MySpinOnThings @ 08/12/2008 2:11:42 PM

      OK people....A little History lesson. First of all it was Russia that invaded and annexed Georgia in 1924 after they broke away (from Russia) during the Russian revolution.

      Let's take an rdupuy quote BUT replace a few things.
      rdupuy - "We somehow don't learn from history, Adolf Hitler was democratically elected, so was Hamas (considered to be a terrorist group) in" Gaza ". The fact that the " Russian "strong-man" Putin (ex-KGB colonel) "was elected, is as indisputable as it is irrelevant. The" Georgians are "being destroyed, and" no "nation stepped into the breach to save them."

      "The tragedy here, is" Russia doesn't "recognize the true borders of Georgia and keep claiming Ossetia is part of Georgia, when in fact," it is! "Georgia has its...own culture, and until the " 1924 "lived peacably with their neighbors, what changed was the new government of Russia tried to destroy them" and did!

      Mimi13 - The reason why the Ossetians (& Abkhazia) have Russian passports is that the Russians issued them Russian passports AFTER they broke away from Georgia. Let's not forget that it was the Russians that supported both of Georgia's break away territories (when Georgia just became a country AGAIN and had no military) and that only Russia recognizes them (Ossetia & Abkhazia). All Georgia was trying to do was take back their territory.

      Let's say Siberia (rich in natural resources) or the Kamchatka peninsula (militarily strategic) revolted against Russia with strong US help. Then the US sends in "peacekeepers" and issues the residents there US passports.

      Wouldn't it be Russia's right to take back Siberia or the Kamchatka peninsula? YES!

      • Posted By: Mimi13 @ 08/12/2008 6:22:48 PM

        I don't understand your reasoning. South Ossetia has been functioning as the Republic of South Ossetia since the resolution of a conflict with Georgia the early 1990s. It was only after Saakashvili took office that the the conflict was resurrected as he tried to quash the separatist movement. The South Ossetians have voted twice for independence. In 2006, the election was conducted under with international observers, but the EU and the US still refused to recognize the results. Both Ossetias were once a single ethnic country that was taken over by Russia in an agreement with the Ottoman Empire; none of Ossetia was within Georgia's borders. When the Soviet Union absorbed Georgia (1923), it also split Ossetia into north and south regions with South Ossetia established as an autonomous district within Georgia and North Ossetia was a constitutuent republic within Russia. While everyone was under Soviet rule, things stayed pretty peaceful. But when other countries started breaking away from the Soviet Union, South Ossetia began the movement to gain its independence, or alternatively, reunite with North Ossetia as a federal republic with Russia. Obviously, it was to Russia's advantage to issue Russian passports to Ossetians -- but the fact of the matter is South Ossetia identifies more with Russia than it does with Georgia. I just don't see any parallel in your Siberia example because Siberia has never been part of the United States, the people of Siberia have no ethnic affinity with the people of the United States and Siberia has never voted to be annexed to the United States.

        As I said before, I understand the strategic reasons for supporting Georgia. The country has always leaned west and it provides the United States a military staging base in that part of the world. And there is that oil pipeline. I don't pretent to know what the "correct" response to this situation should be. But it is hpocritical to pretend that Russia is the only aggressor in this situation. If we need to defend Georgia (although, given the way our military resources are stretch, there's not much we can actually DO) because it is strategically important to the United States, then so be it. But let's forgo the blather about defending "young democracties" and the McCain hubris that we are all Georgians. This is a country that shelled its own civilans -- women, children, elderly -- in the middle of the night. I certainly feel no affinity with Saakashvili.

    • Posted By: Mimi13 @ 08/12/2008 1:13:38 PM

      You've posted most of what I wanted to say on this matter. Both Saakashvili and Putin are ruthless dictators. Aside from the facts that Putin is a whole lot smarter than Saakashvili, the only real difference between them is that Saakashvilli is OUR ruthless dictator. I understand US interests in Georgia -- it is a military staging base and that oil pipeline from the Caspian crosses South Ossetia. And these may be reasons for coming to Georgia's defense, as Saakashvili bet the farm we would. But let's not have any blather about defending "young democracies." South Ossetia had an election in 2006. There was a 92% turnout. The Ossetians elected their own president -- and 99% of them VOTED for the restoration of their borders and reunification with North Ossetia. Most Osstians carry Russian passports. If Georgia REALLY believed in democracy, if the United States was REALLY all that concerned about "young democracies," the Ossetias would be united and independent along with Abkhazia.

  • Posted By: msivasankaran @ 08/12/2008 6:01:52 PM

    Hey If we, America could destroy Iraq under some false pretext (WMD?) , why can't Russia.

    • Posted By: wilsan @ 08/12/2008 6:20:35 PM

      Pretty simple: Russia does not have a UN resolution, and a couple of dozen other country's Intelligence organizations, stating that they should invade a country.

  • Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 08/12/2008 6:17:04 PM

    I am less than convinced. The solution of the Obamaites was to pass ''a stern resolution in the UN''[Richardson],forgetting that Russia has the power to veto this resolution if they cannot[and will not be able to anyway],base it within a Chapter VII framework. McCain is right. Of Putin he remarked,''When I look in his eyes,I see three letters. ''K'',''G'' and ''B''. Obama would talk the deal to death,or go scrambling to the already ineffective UN.
    But if Putin visualizes a return to Russian might,there will come the time when his policies do act counteractive directly to our own.[Red boomers off Alaska or California,bomber installations in Cuba, further goading in Iran, fishing rights, or other territorial squabbles , all quite possible realties].
    Then we should also consider where Hirshs realpolitik lay when he blames the West in the area of Russia,but jumps on an Obama bandwagon in sending troops to China-sponsored Sudan, or keeping the lid on a fractious Kosovo/Serbia. Hirsh is too obtuse to acknowlage that playing ''honest broker''in a post-Bush America means absolutely nothing to dictatorial regimes. He is a dreamer in this important respect. If we must endure another cold war with Russia,I would more like to have a McCain at the helm,who knows his man,[two speeches in 1999 and 2000 specifically addressing Georgia attest to this and also has a solid history of deeply distrusting Putin],rather than an Obama,who is also a dreamer in the Carteresque tradition.

  • Posted By: westistoblame @ 08/12/2008 6:13:57 PM

    US educated, suave, champion of democracy outsmarted by Moscow scholars. Top knowledge is at Lomonosov not US univeristies. One free lesson form Lomonosov: keep out from the Russian backyard. Cheers.

  • Posted By: wilsan @ 08/12/2008 6:07:32 PM

    Hirsch & Newsweek are being normal Liberal Democrats; Blame America first.

    I can"t help but wonder what the DNC pays these representatives for their PR services?

  • Posted By: Spacer @ 08/12/2008 5:53:31 PM

    Putin is probably shaking in his boots because McCain is threatening him. With what, I don't know. Maybe McCain will run some nasty attack ads comparing Putin to Paris Hilton or administer some equally horrible punishment.

  • Posted By: krustykrab @ 08/12/2008 5:53:14 PM

    Not only has Hirsch totally gone over the edge by suggesting that democratization of other nations should be avoided at all costs (sorry that's the gist of his article) because it might bruise the ego of some megalomaniac (how Chamberlanian of him...), he also is totally ignorant of the 80-years of so of history between Georgia, Russia and the two semi-autonomous regions, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Let alone recent events which led to this current outbreak of violence.

    If you were to blame anybody, it would probably be the attack by the nationalist Georgia unit on the Russian peace keepers, which sparked a predictable response from Moscow. And there isn't any question that Georgia has acted very harshly and in a very nationalistic (Balkan-like) manner towards these formerly independent nations, who are simply trying to restore their own rightful autonomy over their own homelands.

  • Posted By: mightnotvoteobama @ 08/12/2008 5:43:08 PM

    The only recourse the U.S. has to get Russia???s attention. Is to push for NATO in Chechnya this is a very hard thing for Russia to deal with if NATO is in Chechnya then Russia will be at a stalemate to try and recoup losses from the fall of the soviet union also the Chechnya government will have better economics than Russia because they too are sitting on oil and Russia will not try and attack for two very good reasons (1) they are a member of NATO and (2) the Chechnya population is very large compared to the very small Georgia, Chechnya must have a membership in NATO, or the Russians will continue to get stronger until they feel they are again a super power ! I???m starting to feel sorry for our next president whomever that will be! God help us if it is obama because Russia will surely try him!

    Posted By: willnotvoteobama @ 08/12/2008 10:38:02
    Comment: p.s. china will not get involved in this even though it is said that russia and china are in bed together! we are china's mistress. (so to speak )without the u.s.! the economy of china will drop if we stop trading with them! and as far as our debt to china it would be very hard to collect if either gets involved with a war that neither the u.s or china are fighting in !

    • Posted By: LeoDeo @ 08/12/2008 5:50:41 PM

      LOL Get Chechnya into NATO - how did this social darwinist experiment figure out how to use a message board

  • Posted By: noelmjr @ 08/12/2008 5:47:43 PM

    Mr. Hirsch,

    Go to your room.

  • Posted By: ilia25 @ 08/12/2008 5:26:36 PM

    I can't believe that everybody seems to ignore a simple fact -- in this particular case it was Georgia acting as an aggressor, and Russia is simply responding to it. This fact overshadows all this talk about NATO, geopolitics or who is whose ally.

    Georgia tried a surprise land grab while the world attention was on Beijing. And it got what it deserved -- no less, no more. Russia has been demanding Georgia to sign an non-aggression pact with its break-away provinces for years. Now we know why Georgia has been refusing to sign it.

    The situations mirrors a Serb aggression of Kosovo or Saddam's aggression of Kuwait. The West did the right thing then, and Russia did the right thing now.

    • Posted By: LeoDeo @ 08/12/2008 5:33:56 PM

      Everybody knows, Bush, McCain and "Osama", are just itching to say something. And since they can't condone it for their sake of their pathetic careers, nor can they intelligently wade through this river, we will have to bear these tattle tale whines for the next several months to come. Especially with useless former Baltic republics seeking their 15 min of cnn time, by crying like newborns , "fearful of the fact they may get invaded too", this roller coaster is going to get better and better

Reply

Report Abuse

Enter comments if any for reporting abuse