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  • Posted By: tang3nt @ 08/13/2008 4:49:27 AM

    For over a decade after the break up of USSR, Russia has followed the "olive branch" policy in matters of foreign affairs. Extending "solidarity" to the former republics and showing a milder side to the West. Where did this get Russia? A weaker stance in the world and a general sense in the West that Russia has been "subdued". Ukraine for example felt entitled to steal Russian gas for years simply because the pipelines to the West run through Ukraine. Russian citizens in "near/abroad" rediculed and mistreated. Those that could benefit (mainly U.S. backed, "Democracy" seeking former republic) felt entitled to chip away at Russia in any way possible. Russia has effectively been made the de facto villian, isolated and beaten with the very "olive branch" it extended to the former USSR republics and the industrialized world.

    Lesson? Clearly "playing nice" does not work.

    The actions by Russia in Georgia in this War are a clear message to everyone that "enough is enough". Russia is not to be discounted, toyed or trifled with. I for one am happy and proud to see that Russia is once again ready and willing to look after its self interest and its citizenry.

    After all, why should it be ok for powers in the west to do so, but not Russia??

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/14/2008 7:41:44 AM

      There is very little intellectual seperation between neo-conservatism and fascism. Look up Project for the New American Century. One of their guys is writing McCain's policies as we speak.

  • Posted By: rdhwk @ 08/12/2008 6:42:26 PM

    Why is it that whenever something like this happens some one automatically blames the U.S. for it ? The sad part is that it usually some liberal (sorry they like to be called progressive now, don't they?), that enjoys the the freedom that they can only get in this country.
    I think the Australian Prime Minister put it rightly so when he said, "Our country speaks english, is based on christian values that embrace conservative ideas. If you don't like it, leave."
    Now if only some of these "Americans" would take the time to look at our (Americas' ) heritage, and follow suit. I mean if you are so opposed to what this administration, and the American government is doing, you can always go to Iraq and protest, right? After all, you can just sit down with Osama Bin Laden, and the rest of Al' Quaida, and instill some of your "values on to them.
    Let us know how you make out.

    • Posted By: TrueConservative @ 08/12/2008 9:20:24 PM

      Please, please, please! Speak for yourself and not for conservatives in general. If you have to speak on behalf of a group, speak on behalf of the neocons. After all, you have the same tired old rhetoric as them.

      You present no discussion of any facts or debate any of the issues raised. You only resort to personal attack. Why not tell us why the Russians shouldn't protect their own? Why is this situation any different from Kosovo (other than the Russians didn't support a terrorist group like the KLA to kill Georgian police)? Please tell us why Saakashvili should be taken seriously as a democrat when he has arrested (torturing and killing some) hundreds of political opponents? The list go on! Please, enlighten us with your knowledge of the events.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/14/2008 7:36:46 AM

        Sir, our Fascists have made Conservatives enemies of the State.

    • Posted By: raddave @ 08/12/2008 10:30:03 PM

      I do not think the author was blaming the U.S. in this article, he was pointing out that our actions, whether you agree with them or not, have a consequence. There's that "love it or leave it" argument. We live in a democracy and we have a right to disagree with our Government.

  • Posted By: Charles H @ 08/12/2008 11:12:22 PM

    This is the 21st centuries Czechloslovakia with its partition and then assimilation into the greater German Reich.

    • Posted By: TrueConservative @ 08/13/2008 12:23:12 AM

      Ahh Yes, the "It's the Nazis Again" response! Kill all reasonable debate by labeling one side as nazis!

      This is of course utter nonsense. For starters, Czechoslovakia did not attack anyone first (including the Sudetenland). Georgia did. Present Russia, for all it's faults, is certainly not Nazi Germany.

      Look at all of the agreements we have broken with Russia. Look at all of our attempts to isolate Russia and chip away at them. The cornered bear is angry and the idiot leader of Georgia gave them the perfect opportunity to make some adjustments to their situation. Why must we spend more treasure (or blood) for the ill conceived actions of an idiot? Aren't we in enough financial trouble?

      Just because Bush (and previously Clinton) have badly managed our affairs in Eastern Europe doesn't mean we have to pour more resources into this mess. Let's see if Saakashvily can get himself out of trouble by himself for a change.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/14/2008 7:16:32 AM

        Lacking a Marshall Plan for Eastern Europe, Russians starved and froze in the dark winters of Yeltsin.
        Dr. Rice and her Neo-Con Kissinger-inspired foreign policy have advanced us right back to the 70's pre-detente. Great job Bushwhackers, way to destroy decades of advancement.

  • Posted By: frog @ 08/13/2008 6:58:57 AM

    Well, during the conflict in ex-Yugoslavia I was at university and reading the same journals and periodicals showing huge pictures of Serbs decapitating Muslims in their basements? My friend participated in political simulation defending the interests of Kossovo. Her textbooks were full of accounts of attrocities against ethnic minorities. What is one supposed to think?

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/14/2008 7:10:43 AM

      The entire Yugoslavian disaster began with the death of Tito. As government disintegrated, irregular forces under political not national command comitted atrocities, on all sides. By allowing a state to fail, we allowed the conditions to exist that led to the brutality. The problem is that the uncorked hate was likely going to blow up no matter what. There is a few thousand years of that between the adriatic and caspian seas.

    • Posted By: T man @ 08/13/2008 2:08:25 PM

      Frog, your friend did he/she show YOU the pictures of beheaded Serbs also- that Albanians killed
      .,I dont thnik so. I can show you some if you care. Did you Albanian friend tell you how in the late 70, and 80 and 90 Albaninas in Kosovo were killing Srbian locals, policemen, bombing, burning houses, burning then and EVEN today hundreds of Serbian Orthodox monasteries that are centuries old, WERE YOU TOLD THAT KLA WAS A TOP 10 TERRORIST GROUP IN THE WORLD (1998 US REPORT) and then all of a sudden they are freedom fighters just before bombing. DID HE/SHE TELL YOU THESE THINGS MY FRIEND, I DONT THINK SO SO SIT DOWN AND BE QUIT
      ps DID HE TELL YOU HOW HACIM THECCI IS A WAR CRIMINAL FOR ORDERING TO KILL THOUSANDS OF SERBS IN KOSOVO AND NOW HE IS WELCOMED IN THE WHITE HOUSE
      PLEASE MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND BEFORE YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING MAKE SURE YOU KNOW YOUR SUBJECT MATTER. KOSOVO IS SERBIA

  • Posted By: ukstar @ 08/13/2008 1:12:11 PM

    it is a shame how the EU reacted to the Russian invasion of the Georgian territory, sanctions, words spoken but to be honest we have all been spectators unable to act, most of the times unwilling to comment (see the italian press of the days when the facts happened). Shame on all the ones that should and could have been doing something but have preferred to remain silent instead. Francesco Leonardi

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/14/2008 7:06:26 AM

      Other than Britain, who in Europe is worth a crap on a battlefield? Oh yeah, Russia. My Bad.

  • Posted By: ScArReDwArRiOr @ 08/13/2008 9:14:46 PM

    I wonder when Bush is going to give a speech about the Russians being evildoers. This, while embracing Putin as his partner in the war on terror. Too bad G.W. didn't notice the contacts Vladimir was wearing, while declaring to the world, he looked into his eyes and saw his soul. Go on and hope the world is too stupid to remember a single thing you had to say about past events, President Bush. Better yet , explain why Georgia becoming a member of NATO, while resting upon Russia's borders. Isn't an intentional act of provocation, which seems more than remotely similar to the Soviets putting nuclear missiles in the U.S. backyard of Cuba.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/14/2008 7:05:24 AM

      Brother, McCain's campaign said John needed a war to win and Bush got him one, and McCain's top foreign policy guy sold us the Iraq war and Chalabi, and is a registered lobbyist for Georgia who attacked Russia. Putin is just defending his own backyard, even if he is a totalitarian. (Russia kind of needs a strongman, their neighborhood requires it, great khans pop up.)

  • Posted By: Charles H @ 08/12/2008 11:15:43 PM

    If they try this on Poland, which is NATO member, it will be WWIII
    Ukraine needs to ain NATO membership as soon as possible.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/14/2008 6:59:04 AM

      No, the Ukraine needs to be able to elect a government you silly soul. Bush and his CIA monkeys haven't finished buying all of the Ukrainians yet.

  • Posted By: Charles H @ 08/12/2008 11:13:45 PM

    This is the 21st centuries version of the partition of Czechloslovakia in 1938 (Peace in our Time, The Munich Pact). Next the Russian Facists will take the rest of Georgia and assimilate it into Greater Russia.

    • Posted By: russianmaksim @ 08/13/2008 8:24:08 PM

      correction in 1968 get facts rights, plus georgia started this time

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/14/2008 6:57:41 AM

        Remember as an American, he is not only entitled to his own opinion, but is usually carrying his own facts. We have a loose confederacy of complete idiots running our country. They are trying to steal all the oil and gain a monopoly on force. Shamefully reckless. I wonder if they have heard of the Trans-Dnestr? Gosh I think that Russia should immediately move to protect them from the crazy Moldovans!! Kosovo legitimized every independence movement in the Russian Diaspora.

    • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 08/13/2008 11:20:48 AM

      "This is the 21st century's version of the partition of Czechoslavakia in 1938 (Peace in our Time, The Munich Pact). Next the Russian Fascists will take the rest of Georgia and assimilate it into Greater Russia."

      But it is ok if America partitions Iraq and assimilates it into Greater America, right?

      It is ok for us to support (or invade) countries that have no historic ties to America, like Koszovo and Ukraine and Iraq - who, exactly, are the facists, again? - but Russia can't support places like Ossetia, which have made overtures to Russia and have an historic relationship with Russia?

      We need to be very careful about pointing fingers at Russia when we have blood on our own hands. We put missiles in Poland, Russia didn't put missiles in Canada. This isn't Munich, but one thing seems clear: there will be no peace in our time.

  • Posted By: firstamendment @ 08/13/2008 12:57:38 PM

    COMMENT: PM PUTIN - "YOU ARE NO LONGER THE U.S.S.R., JUST TWO FIGTHER JETS FROM NATO WILL PULVERIZED AND CRUSHED ALL YOUR ARMED FORCES"

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/14/2008 6:37:50 AM

      Well, no. That would cause the end of the world.

    • Posted By: bighappy @ 08/14/2008 12:43:21 AM

      No, stupid. You need at least 2000.

    • Posted By: russianmaksim @ 08/13/2008 8:16:49 PM

      I would love to see US try that lol

  • Posted By: tang3nt @ 08/13/2008 4:49:42 AM

    For over a decade after the break up of USSR, Russia has followed the "olive branch" policy in matters of foreign affairs. Extending "solidarity" to the former republics and showing a milder side to the West. Where did this get Russia? A weaker stance in the world and a general sense in the West that Russia has been "subdued". Ukraine for example felt entitled to steal Russian gas for years simply because the pipelines to the West run through Ukraine. Russian citizens in "near/abroad" rediculed and mistreated. Those that could benefit (mainly U.S. backed, "Democracy" seeking former republic) felt entitled to chip away at Russia in any way possible. Russia has effectively been made the de facto villian, isolated and beaten with the very "olive branch" it extended to the former USSR republics and the industrialized world.

    Lesson? Clearly "playing nice" does not work.

    The actions by Russia in Georgia in this War are a clear message to everyone that "enough is enough". Russia is not to be discounted, toyed or trifled with. I for one am happy and proud to see that Russia is once again ready and willing to look after its self interest and its citizenry.

    After all, why should it be ok for powers in the west to do so, but not Russia??

    • Posted By: mordess @ 08/14/2008 1:48:59 AM

      answer to yoyur question: Because Russia is still little more than a gas station for Europe, otherwise contributing little of value to the word. Russia is and always has been an expansionist imperialistic (and backwards) power ... and so it shall be in the future.

      • Posted By: tang3nt @ 08/14/2008 4:14:43 AM

        I hope you realize the irony of your words. Because as we speak, the U.S. is speeding at breakneck pace towards the same future you describe for Russia.

  • Posted By: vstlmoox @ 08/13/2008 1:55:20 AM

    The west need to remember history. It is a shame that a country that is allied to the west, recieved no help from the west. Russia has no morals. They only understand an eye for an eye. The west should not shun away from using necessary force when needed.

    • Posted By: russianmaksim @ 08/13/2008 8:22:55 PM

      well then that country that allied to the west need not attack civilians that happened to have very powerful friends

  • Posted By: celeste47 @ 08/13/2008 2:16:59 PM

    Russia, or the world for that matter, didn't stop us from going into Iraq without just cause and killing 700,000 civilians, because militarily, who can? These are not the days before WWi or WWII. Diplomacy has to win out or energy will not be a issue in the future because we may not survive. It scares me to think that the US and Russian leaders are nuclear powers on the brink of playing chicken with their troops and world survival.

    • Posted By: bsmith2420 @ 08/13/2008 5:31:04 PM

      While Bush was spreading democracy and lying about Iraq, The Russians made a perfect move. The Chineese were entertaining him, while Russia moved with precision. It is now time for the US to take it up the rectum just like Iraq. What can the US do? Nothing but watch as Russia reclaims Empire!

  • Posted By: RodRous @ 08/12/2008 3:23:36 PM

    Why doesn't anyone write about Georgian forces starting this by invading Ossetia which is an indepent country.

    • Posted By: SilverHawk @ 08/12/2008 4:38:15 PM

      Actually, Ossetia is not officially recognized by an international group or polticial body. Georgia was asserting it's territorial sovereignty by moving in military forces to reclaim the break away province. Russia has been waiting for monthes for this to flex their muscle by flooding said area with Russian Passports, making the holders pro bono Russian Citizens.

      The whole reason this happened is because Russia still operates like the USSR, using force if needed to maintain buffer states between it and western powers. They already lost Poland and the Ukraine to NATO, they weren't going to lose Gerogia to NATO as well, as that would open another attack vector for western pwoers should that day ever come and they take advantage in the knowledge that be acknowledging the existence of South Ossetia as a seperate province to Georgia that it would prevent their entry into NATO because of a compromised border.

      Russia is in the wrong, not Georgia, get YOUR facts straight.

      • Posted By: TrueConservative @ 08/12/2008 9:09:00 PM

        So Serbia was in their right to try and keep Kosovo within their borders?

        Sadly Russia is right. We are being very hypocritical.

        • Posted By: raddave @ 08/12/2008 10:35:09 PM

          Yes, they do.

          • Posted By: Tell truth @ 08/13/2008 2:09:15 AM

            This is another event that makes me remember a piece of scripture that says, "whoever sheds man's blood will have his blood shed by man.' Who started shooting first? How did an entire city get leveled to the ground? (not counting all of the villages) As of so far the majority seem to agree that it was the Georgian troops that started shooting first.

            • Posted By: LogicJunky @ 08/13/2008 12:04:59 PM

              All of this because Georgia is one of the ONLY countries ready to lend US a hand in invading a SOVIERGN nation. It shows a pattern, sets a precidence and stance on world affairs. The Russians- albieght ruthlessly so, are doing this thing historically right. If you have enemys on your door step - you don't beat them back to the border and hope they'll behave, you eliminate the problem. War is not always fair- and when you pick a fight with some one, you stand a chance a loosing everything. This is how History works.

    • Posted By: raddave @ 08/12/2008 10:34:43 PM

      Ossetia is not a separate country.

  • Posted By: lmht @ 08/13/2008 10:24:29 AM

    Mr Saakashvili! Start looking for a good lawyer. It wont be cheap, because you need the best one. Your case soon to be completed and presented before International Court. Good luck my friend!

  • Posted By: johnharrison @ 08/13/2008 6:57:45 AM

    You are absolutely 100% on the money, tang3nt. Russia has for years moaned at U.S. hypocrisy - it's okay for the U.S. to intervene in Serbia, it's okay for the U.S. to defend its "interests" in the Caucasus, etc. but it's not okay for any other country to have any interests (unless they coincide with America's). For us to sacrifice our relationship with Russia for a relationship with a tiny country, run by an idiot, where there are nothing but sheep and vineyard would be riduculous

  • Posted By: awakened @ 08/13/2008 6:38:23 AM

    whatreallyhappened.com

  • Posted By: frog @ 08/13/2008 4:39:25 AM

    Yes, who sarted shooting first? How am I. a simple "brick in the wall" supposed to know? The responsibilities lies with men (I emphasize men, not women) who pull the trigger, push the button, fly the planes. The media will tell you now one thing, then quite the opposite, all very well argumented and not written by Ms Hilton, but by graduates of prestigious universities and colleges on both sides of the conflict.

  • Posted By: frog @ 08/13/2008 4:35:03 AM

    Another fact, not belief - during the first world war, Bulgarian soldiers refused to fight, they rebelled in the trenches - I know, I know, some foolish Balkan peasants - who cares what they do or don't.

  • Posted By: frog @ 08/13/2008 4:32:30 AM

    I am not Ms Hilton, I am a Bulgarian. These are some facts from Bulgarian history. Russia liberated us from the Turks, so Bulgaria has always felt obliged to Russia. However, Russia has not always defended Bulgarian interests and has actually preferred to protect Serbian territories and interests instead of Bulgarian ones. Now the Serbs are going to jump over me. Facts are, Bulgaria has not initiated a single war after its liberation, Serbia has. Facts are, Bulgarian villages were divided into two (by border) to appease Serbian interests. Facts are Serbians secluded Macedonia from Bulgaria and Russia supported it. Macedonia is not now Bulgarian and Bulgaria has no claims over it but it used to be. So how come Serbia cannot lose Kossovo? Traditionally, Bulgarian ties with Russia are strong. During communism Russia build a lot of industries here and we are still under its influence. However, when supporters of Russia - religious and otherwise idealistic people say they see Russia as a new hope, they actually mean that Russia does not have to follow the pattern of aggression set by Westerners, not now, but in the past. The power of Russia is in peacemaking, not in showing muscles at every possible occasion. This is what I mean by the end of cold war. A change of patterns from military, to other forms. I don't know if it is true or possible, only time will show. Yes, Russia has got to change and enter a more prosperous era, but not at the expense of bullying smaller nations. How stupid do you think that is?

  • Posted By: jmills @ 08/12/2008 10:38:17 PM

    Saakashvily wanted a swift operation and that is why he started to bomb a sleeping city and shell barracks with peacekeepers killing hundreds and when it did not work started to play a victim. "Poor me, Poor Georgia" Democracy" Uncle George, Please help!
    Milocevic did not live through his trial so I guess now the world has a chance with this war criminal. Or may be he belongs to a psychiatric institution

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