‘They Want the Whole of Georgia’

He was right and I was wrong. Because as soon as the whole thing erupted, the Russians responded immediately. Tanks began moving. They started to make statements. Moscow claimed that [Russian] peacekeepers were killed. Well, remember that there were 500 local people serving as peacekeepers. I believe that every separatist who got killed or wounded would get a paper saying that they were Russian peacekeepers. Everybody [in Ossetia] is a Russian citizen. Everybody was eligible to be a Russian peacekeeper. So then Russia started to say, "Our peacekeepers are under attack and we are there to protect our peacekeepers." I always said this would be the scenario for the start of hostilities with Russia, except that all the time we were expecting it in Abkhazia. In fact, we thought that South Ossetia had calmed down because the Russians were too much focused on Abkhazia. But Russian troops were massed in North Ossetia, which is not near Abkhazia.

One senior U.S. diplomat, who is a good friend of mine, had lunch with [Russian Foreign Minister Sergei] Lavrov, and he said to Lavrov that he was planning to go to Georgia in September. And Lavrov replied, "Too late, there will be a war before then." Then we had information from friendly country intelligence, from Central and Eastern European countries, that something was coming. Brilliant timing. The Olympic Games. All the decision makers are on holidays. And everybody was telling us, if you survive until late fall, then the Russians will calm down.

What did President Bush tell you?
Bush told me he was in contact with [Russian President Dmitry] Medvedev. And that he's trying to calm [the Russians] down. He expressed his full support for us. Basically, that's it. He understands that this is not so much about Georgia, but that this is in a sense aggression against Americans.

He said that?
We had a kind of understanding.

Do you feel you will have support from him?
We have mobilized a lot of support in Western Europe. I had a long conversation with [German] Chancellor [Angela] Merkel. The Germans are in close touch with the Russians.

Are you anticipating further attacks?
Yesterday [Sunday] night, strategic bombers bombed specifically civilian installations, some of them close to pipelines. And the [separatists] in Abkhazia warned U.N. [observers] to move away from the upper Kodori gorge.

Could you explain what has been happening on the ground?
There was massive bombardment of civilian parts of [the Central Georgian town of] Gori. There has been bombardment of Poti port. Their planes went to the port of Batumi, and I immediately ordered to switch off the lights in Batumi, and they missed and hit the sea. And they went to the pipelines. They dropped bombs in places near pipelines in eastern Georgia. They bombed several railway stations that have no military significance whatsoever. And they bombed military bases. Three Russian pilots have been captured alive. One of them was burned and taken to the hospital in Tbilisi. And two more we found dead. The other five pilots of planes [we shot down] ejected into territory controlled by Russia.

Why attack Gori?
Because it's between Tskhinvali and Tbilisi. Actually, I myself witnessed how a Russian plane came very low over a marketplace in Gori and specifically targeted this market. They want to sow panic around the whole area.

What will happen next?
I think they want the whole of Georgia. They have clearly said through different diplomats at different levels that they want the annihilation of Georgia.

Is it your sense that most European leaders view this as a completely Russian-orchestrated event?
Oh yes, clearly. Chancellor Merkel told me yesterday that the Russians bear full responsibility for what is going on.