The Defiant Ones

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  • Posted By: Akmatic @ 08/14/2008 2:00:11 PM

    "Having done so much to sap American economic and military strength and diminish its own diplomatic credibility over the last seven years, the White House now finds itself peculiarly vulnerable to the one-upmanship of its defiance-driven friends, who cannot win wars by themselves, but can start fights that Washington may feel it has to finish."

    ^ Well said ^

    Everyone can thank George W. Bush, our incredibly stupid president, for castrating our foreign policies and relegating our response to the Russian invasion of Georgia to empty verbal threats and finger pointing. Both of which I'm sure the Russians are REALLY worried about between the US being stuck in Iraq for the foreseeable future & the EU being dependent on Russia for Oil.

    • Posted By: wjlakner @ 08/14/2008 3:27:09 PM

      What would you have done since you think youself quite the diplomat?

      • Posted By: Akmatic @ 08/15/2008 11:19:28 AM

        The main point is that this entire situation never should've occurred in the first place and is the result of the US completely overstepping it's boundaries both politically and militarily on a number of fronts. We can side line coach all we want at this point, but the mistakes have been made and now we have to bend over and suffer the consequences. The time to take action was 15-20+ years ago, not Wednesday, August 13, 2008.

        At this point you're already seeing most of the available (realistic) options the US has to offer in the form of symbolic punishment via removing Russia from the G8 and 'empty threats' of Russia becoming Isolated internationally. Those and whatever economic policies the Europeans are willing to sacrifice regarding Russian oil purchases are about as good as it's going to get. Last I checked there were still at least 10-15 Russian regiments supported by heavy armor & LAV columns operating in Georgia and continuing their movement from the East & West. Even though most of their equipment is the same garbage they used in Afghanistan, albeit slightly upgraded, it's more than enough to plow through the ROTC'esq army that Georgia had put together or any of the other former soviet block countries that have since gone democratic. That being said, the focus should be what did we do to get into this mess and how can we avoid things like this going forward seeing as how our current options are limited at best.

        Georgia never should have received US trainers & various pieces of military hardware b/c doing so was only going to encourage them to take action against those breakaway sectors and further provoke the Russians in their efforts to stop the proverbial bleeding from breakaway states. The US is currently trying to setup a completely useless missile defense system (which btw doesn't work very well to begin with) in Russia's backyard (Poland), giving them a hard time over their transparent democracy and we've been at odds over their various economic projects with certain middle east countries; all of which has not helped our relations in the least. Instead of trying to work with countries like China and Russia for the sake of prosperity, we're doing nothing but pushing them away and hurting ourselves in the process. Sometimes I think we're purposely trying to fail only b/c we do such a good job of it more often than not due to having the same kind of people & mindset every time administrations change hands.

        • Posted By: Akmatic @ 08/15/2008 11:21:00 AM

          3000 character limits are weak...

          (continued)

          It's really amazing as to how inept and unwilling our last few administrations have been with regards to having the foresight to see that we should be building strategic relationships with Super Powers like Russia and China. The relationships we have with countries like Britain and various other EU members are great on paper, but nearly useless when it comes to actual conflicts due to their limited ability and desire to provide assistance outside of their own territories. We needed to pick one of them (China or Russia) to cozy up to after the cold war era and instead we just sat on our hands and spit on them. As a result, the UN is all but useless due to China & Russia having permanent Security Council seats and both of those countries sharing a growing hatred for us due to various idiotic foreign policy initiatives. I would've made nice with the Russians since they have useful resources and the ability to directly engage the Chinese based on physical proximity and military capabilities within the region in question.

    • Posted By: star3 @ 08/14/2008 5:57:11 PM

      So, what are you suggesting--that America just pull up the drawbridge, forget the rest of the world, build a wall around ourselves, and ignor whatever is going on anywhere else? O.K., we can do that, and sometimes I think we should, since they all have nothing but hatred for us, anyway--at least, according to the media, who we know can be as trusted as our guardian angels to give us the truth. Yeah, right!! This is planet Earth, not Utopia, so we can only hope & pray for rational minds to make the right decisions.

      • Posted By: Akmatic @ 08/15/2008 11:16:56 AM

        I completely agree with a number of Isolationist policies given our countries physical location, however I certainly couldn't go along with being 100% 'pull up the drawbridge' in terms of overall strategic thinking. The US has 11 active carrier battle groups and those are more than sufficient in terms of imposing our will wherever it may be required so that we don't need to be sending large quantities of ground troops into the Middle East or any other country in order to institute regime change and secure oil reserves.

        The main problem with our current and former foreign aid policies over the last 50 or so years is that each year sees an increased shifted towards military hardware (weapon systems) and training as opposed to socio economic initiatives which is where it should be aimed at. Africa, for example, needs farm equipment, advanced horticultural training, infrastructure (roads/transport systems) rebuilding and subsidies aimed at getting their economies going. Instead the US primarily provides weapons, food supplies and blindly gives away cold hard cash; all of which simply creates a dependency without actually solving any of the long-term problems while also enabling that regions current conflicts.

        Imagine what could've been accomplished with the 3 TRILLION dollars we're going to wind up completely wasting on Iraq? Unfortunately we can't just leave b/c we're already there and we've already screwed everything up in the region; so everyone should get used to reading about Iraq and the Middle East for the foreseeable future.

        To retired marine, I???m well aware of how incompetent our congressional body is and the powerful duo of stupidity we???ve assembled between them and the current Bush administration. There???s plenty of blame to go around, however most of it unfortunately begins and ends with the President.

      • Posted By: RetiredMarine @ 08/15/2008 8:58:15 AM

        No, it is simply that Akmatic, like many of his far liberal friends here, really have no clue as to how our government works. They want to blame the current Administration (mainly Bush), for every wrong in the world. They have no clue - or are just too arrogant to admit, that in politics, it is our congress that causes the majority of our problems, not the president. While the president can assist, the majority of the blame goes to congress. These people will never come to that admission of fact while congress is controlled by their own leftist party.

  • Posted By: ike2000 @ 08/15/2008 11:20:34 AM

    Can somebody tell me, WHO IS THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE United States of America? Is Bush still the president? If Obama was acting like the hawk McCain has proved he is, the media would have gone agog to brand him names and: "acting too presidential." That was the case in his (obama) tour-de-france and germany. Hypocritically, the have kept mum over McCain's excesses in assuming and "speaking for America!" How difference a week makes.

    Come to think of it, I believe and reasonably so, that THE DRAMA IN GEORGIA MAY HAVE PROMPTED BY McCain THROUGH HIS TIES TO SAASKAVILLY. Through his aid and agent to the Georgian government, this must have been a ruse to expose America to the dangers that still exist ahead and how risky it will be to elect Obama to tackle those. The legislature must investigate this allegation, I smell another bible has been signed for the Ayatollah here. Win at all cost, that's the republican way!

  • Posted By: Johnny_Reb @ 08/15/2008 11:09:18 AM

    If you want a "world cop" you don't want "clean and virtuous"...you want Jack Bauer from "24" or that real nasty S.O. b. from "The Shield"...we ARE talking confronting the RUSSIANS boy-yo!

  • Posted By: scottjc16 @ 08/15/2008 11:08:17 AM

    Mr. Dickey

    In what world do you live in? i stopped reading your article when I discovered it was a waste of my time. you ignorance is plain a day. we never talked with the argentines about the Falkland's! they assumed we would not get involved! are you stupid or something? if we follow your fairyland logic then every war happening now, all 150 or so, is our fault! oh oh i know! it was all bush's fault for the french-English 100 years war! cuz cuz bush used a time machine to tell the Brits "We stand united!" yha yha and bush he uh like killed Kennedy! yha like cuz he was a Dem! yha yeah that's it!

    i hope you where high as a kite when you wrote this creative essay, if not you are truly a idiota. (that's one of them Latin words, you remember Latin right?)

    Ho boulomenos

  • Posted By: Wazzon @ 08/15/2008 10:57:46 AM

    Well of course it's AMERICA, who it should be? France maybe? That's why you need to keep a clean profile, be virtuous and stuff, in case we need you :)

  • Posted By: SPORTLOCK09 @ 08/15/2008 10:50:59 AM

    The irony of this whole situation is that although everyone complains about America sticking their nose in everyone else's business. First sign of trouble, and it's, AMERICA, where are you? Can someone make up their minds? Either you want us to be the world police or you don't. Shouldn't be case sensitive.

  • Posted By: Johnny_Reb @ 08/15/2008 10:34:20 AM

    We ain't lost Georgia quite yet...it ain't over till it's over. Ya'll can take your string quartets plying Chamberlain Music and tut-tut all you want...the Grown Ups are going to have the final say when McCain takes office.

  • Posted By: david-fahey @ 08/15/2008 10:25:56 AM

    as was feared by many the bush doctrine of pre-emptive war and unilateral action has been turned against the u.s. the russians just did not bother to lie why they are invading another country and it is hard for the bushies invasion outrage to be taken seriously.. remember all that WORLD OPINION the bushies showed so much contempt for, we need now- flash- it is gone! bush(in a chamberlin moment) declared putin and the soviets folks we can work with and new BFF. at the same time, believing their own press clippings about u.s,. the only superpower blatther, arrogently proceeded redo e. europe as a "buffer region" continuing the cold war policies and selling all the starwars dreams; expensive and untested mil. hardware, to e.europe . along with promises of security. if the bushies fail to secure Georgia they will lose all of e.europe. who will believe u.s. promises? e.europe, which has been a pawn/tripwire in world power politics since ww1. you are right about the romance of resistance. but the czech's and hungarians did not rebel on their own. R F E and the CIA and the first coming of the neo-cons(d's actually) were wispering sweet nothing into their ears. their caculation was if revolts worked -fine. if the revolts did not ,they made trouble for the russians. and most of all it was a media nightmare for the ussr. C's saw success or failure a win-win. it did not matter who died, the u.s. won. and as far a surgates getting powers into wars, the region is infamous. just ask the germans about their covert actions in the region to hamstring the russians and their serb nationalist bud's with ear's still wet from whispered german bon mots in said ears . started a little thing called WW1. maybe good can come from this. maybe the threat of world war will knock brittney, paris, wondering politians and reality shows off the nets and nightly news. and maybe we will pay more attention to what matters! maybe the R's/C's will stop carping about chamberlin loosing the czeck's now that bush has lost Georgia. it will be george the appeaser, because he cannot act thanks using up the military and refusing to tax his base to defend the country. george bush has broken this country and now he does not even have a functioning state dept. to help him out of this mess! is he still prez?

  • Posted By: Johnny_Reb @ 08/15/2008 9:47:14 AM

    Continued:
    If the Russian Air Force and or their precious Black Sea Fleet want to come out to play...so be it as I am confident the USAF and US Navy will make short work of them. To HELL with the Russian Bear!

  • Posted By: Johnny_Reb @ 08/15/2008 9:44:17 AM

    You want DEFIANCE? 1) Med Fleet transits to the Black Sea via the Bosporus covered by USAF based out of Incerlik, Turkey. 2) Bring a USMC Amphibious Assault Group with it (the super-harriers will come in handy) This is all to support the Humanitarian Mission our troops are being sent on. If Russia so much as lips off to our guys we take out every piece of Russian Armor in any region of internationally recognized Georgia.
    IfRssRus

  • Posted By: woohoo @ 08/15/2008 9:14:32 AM

    america has to stop getting into other people's business so that it can stop thinking it is obligated to help any and every country. Georgia is a sovereign nation not little US who thought on its own and has to bear the consequences. The GA president should've thought more crititically. something like this ...russia is bigger let's be careful. That would've been a great place to start. That's part of being independent. Georgia and Russia have had longer relationship than the US has been in existence and Russia and Europe warned the US of getting too close to home when they were inviting all of their past territories to join NATO. The US is not invincible nor are its policies perfect so GA should've thought more wisely.
    these news organizations seem to always highlight what's wrong with america or everything for that matter. yes the US deserves to be reprimanded from time to time but to always dish out that the US is an overall pathetic country though it is the country that pays your bills is poor journalism.

  • Posted By: Jill from Florida @ 08/15/2008 9:06:47 AM

    The Western World and the Council on Foreign Relations are using Georgia and Poland to expand their control for the one Globalization World, which they will rule. CFR has put in their puppet, Saakashvili in Georgia, and is attempting to replace their US puppet George W Bush with puppet Barack Obama.

    Russia is being punished by the CFR and the Western World for their action last week to bar BP's CEO, Robert Dudley, from any corporate office in Russia for two years. (BP currently owns 50% of Russia's oil company TNK-BP.)

    The CFR controlled Western World would prefer to have a cold war with Russia than to be unable to control the world's wealth and the world.

    Those of us who are against the CFR controlling the world must look to Russia and China for our own sovereignty. David Rockefeller (founder of CFR), Zbigniew Brzezinski (co-founder of Trilateral Commission and #1 adviser to Obama), Richard Haass (President of CFR), Peter Sutherland (President of Trilateral Commission and Chairman of BP OIL.) are not friends of the working class, but are for themselves ruling the world.

    Until we rid our governments of CFR members and their chosen puppets, we must look to Russia and China to stop their domination.

    To see the CFR members in the US
    http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/CFRMembers.html

    To see the Western World members of the Trilateral Commission
    http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/TCMembers.html

    And may our God help us from their harm.

  • Posted By: Cloudosmoke @ 08/15/2008 8:55:19 AM

    He wasn't miscalculating anything. Saakashvili is provoking something between Russia and the U.S. This is nothing but a proxy war.

  • Posted By: mvbasten @ 08/14/2008 3:27:01 PM

    Why does a Georgian believe he can start a conflict and sucker the US into backing them militarily? Beacuse Kosovo Albanians did exactly that in 1998, and got exactly what they had hoped for. And now every little warlord around thinks he can do the same. That can of worms can't be closed that easily...

    • Posted By: RetiredMarine @ 08/15/2008 8:51:57 AM

      Because he has organizations like Newsweek and the rest of the liberal agenda US media backing them, making a story of how the US is responsible for everything under the sun. He also has the "Obama Supporters" who do the same. These idiots make every subject a point to blame the current administration and the US as a whole for every ill in the world. They are quick to point out a problem, place the blame, call leaders "idiots", yet offer no solution whatsoever. Too many supposedly educated yet "ignorant to real life" leftist worshippers out here....

  • Posted By: Medge @ 08/15/2008 12:34:13 AM

    It seems as if defiant senators like William Fulbright are gone forever. Today's senators just play along, no guts. Fulbright told it like it was. His book The Arrogance of Power (1966) tells of the failure of congress to set limits to the Vietnam war. Does it ring a bell? He gave voice to the anti-war movement and legitimized it.
    In the book he states that "the arrogance of power tends to confuse itself with virtue and a great nation is...susceptible to the idea that its power is a sign of God's favor, believing that God confers upon it special responsibility to make other nations richer and happier, to remake them in its own image. Power confuses itself with virtue and tends to take itself for omnipotence; imbued with the idea of a mission, assuming that it has the duty to do God's work." This is the mission that Bush and his White House have assumed as a mandate from the Almighty itself. They feel that they have to propagate their brand of democracy around the world, for the purpose of exerting political influence and control on other nations. The former Soviet republic of Georgia has fallen victims to this arrogance of power which has resulted in Georgia's adoption of their own arrogance ending in their demise. There is a need in Congress for a new voice like Senator Fulbright 's to bring back enlightment to government.

  • Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 08/14/2008 10:59:30 PM

    But isn't all the US actions and inactions are what the majority of the Americans want, that the USA is great enough to start war anywhere they like and to eventually control the whole world? The Americans are willing to sacrifice their lives and comfort to achieve the untimate goal. The Americans do not mind to be destitute as a result of all these calamities whether natural like Katrina, California fires, floods, draughts, or man made likesubprime mess, 9/11, the war in Afgjanistan and Iraq, all the calandestine actions in Latin America and ither third world countries, proxy wars, high oil price which are stretching and straining the USA to the limits.

  • Posted By: RO in Reno @ 08/14/2008 8:44:49 PM

    Interesting and thought provoking article.
    It points out the real problem of a foreign policy that is emotion based, the current administration is based wholly on emotion, something Bush has made a point of his "gut feeling" if you will as though he had superior instincts.
    Many of the problems and even the support of this administration are emotion based.
    It's not uncommon among Bush supporters to claim his tax reduction as proof he is acting in their best interests.
    The truth of course is a family of four with an income of $60,000 received a meager $15.00 per year tax reduction the total of which is now spent with every visit to the grocery store.
    The entire push to invade Iraq was based on emotion, and since bin Laudin was allowed to simply walk away in Afghanistan the residual emotion from the twin towers attack was intact and allowed Bush to invade Iraq in spite of facts, the truth or common sense.

    The polls are interesting in that college graduates over whelming support Obama and we see only emotion driven derogatory campaigning going on and I take the comment about well read southerners to make reference to that fact.

    But at some point emotion driven policies have to come head to head with reality as we now see in Georgia.
    As a very wise man once pointed out "the fact is emotions have no brains"

  • Posted By: donbl @ 08/14/2008 8:27:43 PM

    Time to grade on the results and not somebody's opinion of what could happen or what could have happened..

    For example, if the Russians continue to back out (grudgingly) then the US position was a good one and the President of Georgia should have listened when the administration told him to not tease the bear.

  • Posted By: the babe @ 08/14/2008 7:45:21 PM

    Under the presidency of this idiot....bush...th u.s. has gone back to pre ..1939 economically and pre 1980 politically...he should be impeached now and his entire administration held accountable for crimes against the americn people

  • Posted By: the babe @ 08/14/2008 7:42:58 PM

    the bush administration should resign or be arrested in total for war crimes....it is a mockery of the history of the united states ..this man in the white house...is an idiot

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