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  • Posted By: Redlabel @ 11/03/2008 10:31:27 PM

    Mya: Fair enough.

    Thank you, to you and to your son for his service to our country. I will keep each of you, and your nephew, in my thoughts and prayers.

    God Bless.

  • Posted By: Gleeson @ 11/03/2008 9:57:20 PM

    Well..... Either this page is straining under the load, or I just spent 800 bucks on a bad computer.
    Red Label, I just typed out a reply to you, and I don't know. Maybe it'll post later, or maybe it's lost in cyberspace. In any case, having read your post adressed to me, I see that perhaps I was a bit over-zealous when I replied to you...last night? You're obviously a bright guy, and we are in agreement on a lot of things .
    But not John McCain. Thing is, I'm not well. I just don't know if I can repost before I VOTE FOR OBAMA!!.......sorry....I will try, but in either case, I will respect your choice.
    Cheers!
    Gleeson

    • Posted By: Redlabel @ 11/03/2008 10:20:57 PM

      Gleeson: Sorry to hear you aren't feeling well. Perhaps you should stay home tomorrow. ;o) I, too, have had issues with posting replies, so I think it is the traffic.

      No worries on your post. I long ago lost my sensitivity to the "sting" of the written word. Being a contestant in the battle of ideas requires a certain level of emotional detachment for me. But thanks for the consideration.

      After an earlier post that appeared to be quite angry, I wanted to offer you some advice that I find very helpful. Abraham Lincoln once said that when he found himself angry with someone, he would immediately sit down and write that person a letter. Then, he would place the letter on the night stand and go to bed. When he got up in the morning, he would tear the letter up and throw it away. Unfortunately, that darn enter key is just to close, inviting, and big to be ignored during a passionate moment.

      Best wishes.

      Redlabel

  • Posted By: MyaFor Obama @ 11/03/2008 10:14:27 PM

    Hi RedLabel, I am glad to have this dialogue with you further off this board since I believe it deserves deep thought, and it has already been given much attention on this board.

    That being said, right now American's are loosing their jobs, loosing their homes, this IS the worse economic disaster since the Great Depression, old ways are not working.

    Even the fundamentals of economic science aren't working.

    My son is about to be sent to Iraq. My nephew is already a double-amputee war hero from the Iraq war. I live in a neighborhood populated by a large portion of young military families and watch these brave men and women be sent time and time again to risk their lives for us, while missing the lives of their spouses and children, and to come back here and not have the full medical and psychological support and resources they deserve to heal. With no disrespect, I certainly have many more urgent crisis on my heart and mind.

    I am hugely cynical about politics and politicians, however I find Barack Obama to have the progressive thinking we need to heal this mess. Obama has the gift to inspire people, and God knows our down-trodden Americans need to be inspired, need Hope Now.

    Without getting into a long discourse, I'll sum it up: Yes WE Can

    I proudly and without hesitation, after much study and deliberation, already cast my vote for Obama/Bidden!!!!

    My Sincerest Regards, Mya

    P.S. I am an Independent

  • Posted By: Redlabel @ 11/03/2008 10:07:16 PM

    Dear Mya: I just read your post regarding an answer to your questions concerning despicable behavior reportedly displayed at McCain and Palin rallies. I wasn't aware it was a general question for everyone on the blog, but thought it was specifically addressed to someone, so I did not respond. I have to admit I don't pay much attention to the news. I think they serve as the fourth branch of government rather than the watchdog that our Founding Fathers expected the first amendment would ensure remained ever vigilant.

    Now to your question. You have read my posts regarding slavery so it should be apparent that I am not a racist and abhor the very thought of it! I have over the years called many acquaintences, and sadly, family members, to task for inappropriate racial comments, jokes, etc. and I believe that it is our duty to correct this type of reprehensible behavior whereever we encounter it. If McCain and Palin did not admonish this type of action at their rallies forcefully from the podium, shame on them!

    Unfortunately, the rights to freedom of speech and freedom to peaceably assemble do not guarantee that intelligent behavior is the only result. And, by the way, ignorance crosses all political boundaries.

  • Posted By: Gleeson @ 11/03/2008 7:17:16 PM

    RED LABEL Please see my post-"Dear Mya" and PLEASE!! THINK!! You're a smart guy. Base your vote on facts that matter. Not the facts that some one fed you. The problems you have with Obama are based on propaganda, not good information. Yes! We'll pay more for goods and services. But that doesn't make McCain's plan better. You are so close to the truth, and time is short. Please. Think again Gleeson

    • Posted By: Redlabel @ 11/03/2008 8:43:34 PM

      Gleeson: Just curious, do you own stock in Barnes & Noble, because you sure pour it on with the "buy a book" deal. (Smile) But seriously,If only you and I could speak face-to-face you would find very quickly that I am not a man who idly consumes the drivel that both parties try to feed "we the sheeple"! I am now, and always have been, a man that questions authority and demands accountability, both of myself, first, and then of others. I have fallen many times, but endeavored to learn from each mistake. As a former military man, I was adamantly opposed to our entrance into a war with Iraq under Bush II. In fact, had his father completed the mission that was begun in Jan 1991 during Desert Storm, we would not be having this discussion at all. However, now we are engaged in that war and in a War against Terrorism in Afghanistan. Again, as a former military member with many friends, and a brother, still serving, I refuse to disrespect their service and sacrifice by asking them to leave before their mission is done. I would also argue that there has been an unintended positive consequence of the Iraq War in that the terrorists have been forced to confront our ARMED service men and women rather than continue to attack unarmed civilians in aircraft and buildings on US soil.

      As to my views on the economic plans of both candidates, they are both wrong. Both men supported the "bail-out" and that was wrong! McCain wants to buy up all the defaulted mortgages and sell them back to folks who made bad decisions and then send the taxpayers a bill for these peoples' poor choices. That's wrong! Obama wants to engage the federal government in the management of our healthcare system. My numbers are a few years old, but that equates to roughly 1/7 of our GDP (Gross Domestic Product). I can guarantee my experience contracting with the federal government confirms that the feds have the reverse Midas touch...everything they touch turns to Crap! So his approach is wrong! Mind you, it's not because people want to make a mess, they just don't know any better. It is possible to do the wrong things for all of the right reasons. They are still the wrong things!

      I'll leave you with this thought from a high school teacher I had many (many) years ago. She would often chide us for doing substandard work on the blackboard by saying "Your actions speak so loudly I can barely hear what you say." The same holds true here. Actions, or inaction which is an action by default, speak volumes beyond the words. On this count, Mr. McCain has delivered more action that is consistent with my view of a Constitutional Republic than has Mr. Obama. We may respectfully disagree because we still live in the greatest country in the world.

      • Posted By: Gleeson @ 11/03/2008 9:43:26 PM

        Red Label, The first time I saw your handle, I knew we had a lot in common. Clearly, I was correct when I daid that you're a smart guy. You are one, and we share a lot of the same views. I agree with about 95% of what you just said. You lost me though, when you expressed you views as to why we need to stay in Iraq. I understand what you said about our servicemen, and it is a reasonable point of view, however, there's a point that I would like you to consider. Most of the people of the Middle east, believe that Allah writes law. Their leaders are their clerics, who interpret Allah laws, and pass them along to the people. it's been that way since 300...or is it 600AD. My point is this. We could bomb the hell out of Iraq for decades, and the result would be the same. They would revert back to the way they were before we went after all those WND's. We can place a President there, same difference, and we would simply have a very expensive figurehead there, who looks good on FOX news. The Iraqis are simple people. When Sadam was in power, they kept their heads down, and they listened to their clerics. When we moved in and told them that they were free, they kept their heads down, and listened to their clerics, and it simply won't make any difference what we do there now. They will keep their heads down, and listen to their clerics. I will admit, I see a great deal of wisdom in that philosiphy, given the fact that it's dangerous to raise your head at all there. What we've managed to do, is start a civil war there, and no power we can muster, will end that war. They must figure that out for themselves, and I'm sure that they will, after a great deal more blood is shed. I know about the multi-layered Republican Gaurd that protected Sadam, but I still believe that he could have been taken out via covert ops, if it had really been that necessary. I still don't believe that was the case, (remember the No Fly Zone,? " Bush wanted a war, and he got 'im one. Lotsa oil for his friends, and money for the private contractors, etc.etc.etc. Meanwhile the real enemy was in Afghanistan, as I'm sure you know. I don't want our people to have fought in vain either RL, and I for one will never see it that way. They did exactly what their corrupt, pin-headed commmander in chief told them to. In my book, full honors. That said, we've gotta pick a president. I know. It's deep this time. I'll cast my vote for the new guy, and wish you well with your decision. I believe that you have thought it through pretty well.....well...:)
        Cheers RL
        Gleeson

  • Posted By: Redlabel @ 11/03/2008 9:41:51 PM

    Dear Mya: You asked if we could find some common ground and I believe in some small way we have. We both seem to be convinced that abortion is something that should not be so prevalent in our society. Likewise, I think we agree that it should not be used as a form of birth control. We also agree that at some point in time in the womb a baby becomes a sentient being worthy of "humane" treatment. We also agree that it is impossible to know at what point the baby becomes sentient. This is a good start!

    However, we do disagree on a few things. You believe that until we can know the baby is sentient we shouldn't afford her civil rights. I believe that the safer approach would be to assume that the baby possesses a soul (your word, not mine) immediately following conception. In this way, we can be assured that we are not denying a baby's civil rights at any time.

    We also disagree on the concept of acceptable exceptions to a prohibition on abortion. I believe that the baby is innocent irrespective of how she was conceived. Innocent people, regardless of age or place of residence, deserve to have their human rights protected. Our Constitution recognizes certain "inalienable rights", among them: Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    I know this is difficult to accept in the hypothetical case of rape or incest and I struggled with this very objection. However, I have been fortunate to have several friends and family members in the medical profession and specifically in the ER. These doctors indicate that the rape and incest cases that they see in the ER VERY rarely result in a pregnancy due to the emotional and physical trauma of the experience. Granted,this evidence is purely anecdotal, but it has been helpful when combined with the fact that the product of any conception is an innocent child, first and foremost.

    The final argument for exceptions is invariably a case for the "life of the mother". As you say, this is a heart-wrenching argument. However, as a parent, my wife and I have had this discussion in a purely hypothetical context. We both agree that either of us would gladly lay down our life for our child. Frankly, I believe most parents would tell you the same thing. Consequently, I believe that the "life of the mother" exception exists purely to allow continued abortion on demand.

    Finally, you indicate that you are convinced that Mr. Obama is sincere and wants to "govern for the people." I will not question the sincerity of his speeches. However, I can't help but recall the words of my high school Geometry teacher, Mrs. Thoreau. She often said, " Your actions speak so loudly, I can barely hear what you say." Mr. Obama's action, and inaction, on issues that are critical to my views as a strict Constitutionalist force me to remember Mrs. Thoreau's wisdom and vote accordingly.

    Good evening to you.

  • Posted By: Gleeson @ 11/03/2008 9:02:23 PM

    UnbieLEVABle!!!!! WHAT ? DO YOUACTUALLY WANT PEOPLE TO FEEL SORRY FOR YOU?? BECAUSE "IT'S HARD TO BE A REPUBLICAN" ??!!!!! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? IF IT"S HARD, YOU MADE IT THAT WAY! DEAL WITH IT, OR QUIT BEING A REPUBLICAN!!! EAT A BULLET! I DON"T CARE!!
    ..........That post just might have beed the most amazing load of crap that I've ever heard. I'll just say this. If you ever come here and insult me again, after what your party has done to my parents, my children, and the rest of the good people of this country, I will make it my life's work, to come here and spell out how ignorant republicans have been for the past 8 years. You've given me plenty of amunition. Don't forget to wear a nice dark jacket. It's cold outside.
    Gleeson

    • Posted By: MyaFor Obama @ 11/03/2008 9:40:00 PM

      Ditto That Gleeson! And, I'll be right here with you!

      VOTE OBAMA & BIDDEN AMERICA, and let's start fixing this mess!

  • Posted By: Jaray24 @ 11/01/2008 11:04:29 PM

    New to the 2008 ballot will be the change of the name of the country, we will get to vote if we should pick change it to: The United Socialist States of America.

    With either canidate we (the american people) lose. Obama wants to take my money and give to someone else. McCain wants to stay in Iraq (which is winning now) instead of leaving. And both want me to pay for others healthcare.

    PEOPLE STOP LOOKING FOR A HANDOUT FROM THE GOVERNMENT. People that look for every chance to take advantage of the government make me so mad, because I work very hard and it is my tax dollars that keep going to useless programs, and people who steal from the systems that are in place.

    • Posted By: hopefulmom @ 11/01/2008 11:24:20 PM

      Why do republicans think they are the only ones who work for a living? I work, I pay taxes and I am more than happy to give my share to so-called "useless programs" that make our country a place of opportunity and compassion. Obviously, there are people who take advantage of the system, but there are so many people who just need a foot hold to pull themselves up. Why is it that so many don't feel that that is useful?

      • Posted By: Jaray24 @ 11/01/2008 11:30:42 PM

        Because we all know people who's parents were on welfare, and now they do everything they can to be on welfare. I worked with people who would just not show up to work because they had worked the max amount of hours to stay on welfare.
        This isn't about Repubs, and Dems, it's about how I as a businesses owner have no insentive to build my business above the $250,000 mark, Were is the good to the economy in that? And I do give to many different Charities, I believe that 10-15% of ones income should go to them. I just don't think it should be the government who does it with my money. Therefore if I'm paying more in taxes for it, it will be hard to give more to the charities I want.

        I do hope that people can open their eyes and understand I'm not pro either canidate, and I'm not affiliated with either party. I am just trying to look out for the best interest of the American people, and Country in the long run.

        • Posted By: seattle_10 @ 11/03/2008 9:29:09 PM

          Why do you have no incentive to make more than $250,000? Your tax rate only goes up on the portion of money in excess of the $250k... You're still pulling in money and since your overhead is most likely covered by then, it is all profit so your margins are higher. Typical arguement made by people that are not making that kind of money to justify why they aren't making that type of money...

    • Posted By: BSIG @ 11/01/2008 11:16:46 PM

      Amen, i have a feeling that there are a lot more people out here that feel this way than the Obama followers want to admit. I pray there are anyway. If Obama does win, maybe we can buy the USSR's old uniforms, then all we need to do is change it to USSA, only having to replace 1 letter instead of making a whole new uniform. This might save the few people who will actually continue to work a little money.Socailism doesn't work because it does not encourage individuals to achieve, they are willing to depend on the government for everything. I for one what to have the opertunity for better myself and be rewarded for it, as well as have that opertunity for my children.

  • Posted By: MyaFor Obama @ 11/03/2008 9:15:06 PM

    Oops....here it is again, with the source:

    Preference for the General Election, by EDUCATION:
    source: Gallup polls http://www.gallup.com/poll/108043/Candidate-Support-Education.aspx

    Oct 27 - Nov 2, 2008

    Barack Obama:

    High school or less: 50%
    Some college: 50%
    College graduate: 51%
    Postgraduate education: 61%

    John McCain

    High school or less: 41%
    Some college: 43%
    College graduate: 45%
    Postgraduate education: 34%

    StarNoble: By your reasoning, 61% of the brightest minds in America are not capable of critical thinking. If this was true, I'd recommend that you find out fast how your Doctor & CPA vote, because 61% by your reasoning aren't capable of solving critical thinking problems and their minds are pre-occupied with being star-struck. On the other hand, a vote because your guy supports your dogma is certainly evidence of critical thinking?

    Also, I was courteous and responded to you and Redlabel on your pro-life concerns. However, not one McCain supporter responded to my request for a response on your feelings regarding McCain's and Palin's failure to rebuke talk of hate and threats of violence in their presence, and my concern about a leadership that does lead away from hate. One does not need the news or an education to respond to this....Just a sense of basic, innate, common decency....an admiral character trait I have seen in the most humble and meek of us.

    VOTE FOR CHANGE, VOTE WITH INTELLIGENCE

    VOTE OBAMA/BIDEN!!!!!

    PS. Hi Gleason! How are you tonight? Where's Rexy? I pray, pray, pray, we'll be celebrating tomorrow! Also, I hope we can connect in the future. Please email me so we don't loose each other. Please! mya2mya@gmail.com

  • Posted By: MyaFor Obama @ 11/03/2008 9:08:38 PM

    Oct 27 - Nov 2, 2008

    Barack Obama:

    High school or less: 50%
    Some college: 50%
    College graduate: 51%
    Postgraduate education: 61%

    John McCain

    High school or less: 41%
    Some college: 43%
    College graduate: 45%
    Postgraduate education: 34%

    StarNoble: By your reasoning, 61% of the brightest minds in America are not capable of critical thinking. If this was true, I'd recommend that you find out fast how your Doctor & CPA vote, because 61% by your reasoning aren't capable of solving critical thinking problems and their minds are pre-occupied with being star-struck. On the other hand, a vote because your guy supports your dogma is certainly evidence of critical thinking?

    Also, I was courteous and responded to you and Redlabel on your pro-life concerns. However, not one McCain supporter responded to my request for a response on your feelings regarding McCain's and Palin's failure to rebuke talk of hate and threats of violence in their presence, and my concern about a leadership that does lead away from hate. One does not need the news or an education to respond to this....Just a sense of basic, innate, common decency....an admiral character trait I have seen in the most humble and meek of us.

    VOTE FOR CHANGE, VOTE WITH INTELLIGENCE

    VOTE OBAMA/BIDEN!!!!!

    PS. Hi Gleason! How are you tonight? Where's Rexy? I pray, pray, pray, we'll be celebrating tomorrow! Also, I hope we can connect in the future. Please email me so we don't loose each other. Please! mya2mya@gmail.com

  • Posted By: mcsm @ 11/03/2008 8:56:12 PM

    Whoever is elected tommorow, we will pay higher taxes. Make no mistake that either Mccain or Obama will have to raise taxes somewhere to pay for the past eight years of GOP folly.

    We will have health insurance in this country, universally, becasue without healthcare we will falter more than we have. Our country is falling apart, person by person, each time someone visits the ER to get a refill on their medication beacuse they don't have a regular doc. Every other industrialized county has health care for their citizens, and we have become the laughing stock of the world. That comes at the expense of you and I.

    It's time that we stand for what we believe in. Obama and Biden are the best choices for this country now. If this election is tampered with, there will be an armed revolt, or a civil war. The masses are tired of being scr@wed and lied to, and we have no faith in our government, nor should we. It's time we take our country back.

  • Posted By: Gleeson @ 11/03/2008 8:39:57 PM

    Confused? I think not. Nor was I "confused eight years ago when you morons voted these people into our White House to rape and pilage as they pleased. ...Do you really expect anyone to take you seriosly now? There is a very good reason that you are "not popular." perhaps you should sit down with some good books and try to figure out how you could make such an assinie mistake, befor you tell people that they are confused. I was RIGHT eight years ago, and I'm right now. Why don't you be a good little boy, and go play in traffic. Greeson

  • Posted By: Gleeson @ 11/03/2008 8:28:47 PM

    Confused? I think not. Nor was I "confused eight years ago when you morons voted these people into our White House to rape and pilage as they pleased. ...Do you really expect anyone to take you seriosly now? There is a very good reason that you are "not popular." perhaps you should sit down with some good books and try to figure out how you could make such an assinie mistake, befor you tell people that they are confused. I was RIGHT eight years ago, and I'm right now. Why don't you be a good little boy, and go play in traffic. Greeson

  • Posted By: Gleeson @ 11/03/2008 8:19:04 PM

    Dear Kjv1611, It is a sad thing that your God does not allow you to think freely enough to understand our Constituion and the Bill of Rights, or the history of the past eight years. The Republican party hijacked good people like you eight years ago. Lied to you, and during the past eight years, with a President who claims to be a born again Christian did NOTHING that good religous people like you wanted him to do. Step outside the trees, and take a good look at the forrest. Our country is in grave danger, lagely because American Christians failed to see the truth.8 years ago.This is a chance to do some vry god things for your fellow Christians, and help to stop the republican machine that got us into this mess. If Obama gets in, that machine will be shut down, and a lot of good things could happen. Lesser of two evils? It's simple. Our government has never been more corrupt, more decietful, or more dangerous to the wellfare of Americans . Ever. You need to address your religous issues at the state level, and right now, you need to help to heal the damage that American Christians had a hand in, when you voted these people into power. What would Jesus do? Vote for the man who wants to end a war? Or one who would happily keep one going, "for another 100 years." You can trust me here. I want you to have complete confidence, that America will continue to protect your faith. I will indeed fight for it, but right now, it's a little bit late to be in doubt about this election. Most of the good Cristian people I know, have already seen the folly of trusting the republicans with their vote. Trust me, because I am an honest man. When I open my mouth, the truth comes out. If I have no truth, my mouth stays shut. This is the truth. Obama is by far, the lasser of the 2 evils.The truth will set us free.
    Gleeson

  • Posted By: Gleeson @ 11/03/2008 8:14:19 PM

    Dear Kjv1611, It is a sad thing that your God does not allow you to think freely enough to understand our Constituion and the Bill of Rights, or the history of the past eight years. The Republican party hijacked good people like you eight years ago. Lied to you, and during the past eight years, with a President who claims to be a born again Christian did NOTHING that good religous people like you wanted him to do. Step outside the trees, and take a good look at the forrest. Our country is in grave danger, lagely because American Christians failed to see the truth.8 years ago.This is a chance to do some vry god things for your fellow Christians, and help to stop the republican machine that got us into this mess. If Obama gets in, that machine will be shut down, and a lot of good things could happen. Lesser of two evils? It's simple. Our government has never been more corrupt, more decietful, or more dangerous to the wellfare of Americans . Ever. You need to address your religous issues at the state level, and right now, you need to help to heal the damage that American Christians had a hand in, when you voted these people into power. What would Jesus do? Vote for the man who wants to end a war? Or one who would happily keep one going, "for another 100 years." You can trust me here. I want you to have complete confidence, that America will continue to protect your faith. I will indeed fight for it, but right now, it's a little bit late to be in doubt about this election. Most of the good Cristian people I know, have already seen the folly of trusting the republicans with their vote. Trust me, because I am an honest man. When I open my mouth, the truth comes out. If I have no truth, my mouth stays shut. This is the truth. Obama is by far, the lasser of the 2 evils.The truth will set us free.
    Gleeson

  • Posted By: starnoble @ 11/03/2008 7:58:24 PM

    Gleeson: Sadly, you are confused. At this time in our nation, it is not easy to be a Republican. Considering our dire economic situation, I would say that anyone in support of McCain is not having facts simply "fed" to them. As conservatives, we have to critically analyze our opinons and positions in a time where it isn't popular to be one. Unfortunately, many people will vote for Obama not because they are in agreement with his policies, but because he is a celebrity. He is an eloquent orator, sharpely dressed, educated man who will sadly receive votes based on catchy slogans and emotional appeal. While I do believe that you are an informed voter, I believe many are not (on both sides of this election) and many of these uninformed voters are going to vote for Obama without any knowledge of politics. Redlabel has his head on straight, I can say for a fact.

  • Posted By: starnoble @ 11/02/2008 4:57:35 PM

    rexymeteroite: Let me ask a few questions. Why is it that a woman cannot kill her child after it has been born? Is it that the child doesn't have a beating heart when it is still in the womb? Is the child simply a thing until it finally emerges and is placed in a mother's arms? How is it that a baby's rights are completely ignored in favor of the mother's? I don't think anyone would say that it would be okay for a woman to give birth and discard her child in a nearby dumpster. How is abortion different? You may tell me that the baby is only considered human life at a certain time period and we could argue all day long on this issue, however, there is no need for us to argue over Obama's stance. Barack Obama does not support restrictions on abortion. In 1997, he voted against SB230 which would have turned doctors into felons for performing partial-birth abortions. In this procedure, the fetus is extracted from its mother through the birth canal. The head of the child is left inside of the mother while a device literally sucks the brain out of the fetus while the child is kicking and flailing. Sounds like something from a sick horror movie, doesn't it? How anyone could vote for someone who has such a high disregard for human life is beyond me.

    • Posted By: MyaFor Obama @ 11/02/2008 7:24:01 PM

      Dear StarNoble:

      You mislead as to Barack Obama's stance on late term abortion. Barack DOES NOT support late-term abortion. This is what Barack has said about that bill on which he did not vote for/or against:

      "On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that."

      The method you describe IS gruesome and disturbs me at every level. While I am pro-choice, I fully agree with you also, on banning late-term abortions......provided there are also humane exceptions. Obviously, any such justifiable late-term abortion needs to be performed in a more humane way than this.

      Barack Obama has repeatedly stated that he wants to find a balance between pro-life and pro-choice, and also that he agrees on banning late-term abortion. On this issue, I trust him. And on this issue, you have my emphatic support, as defined above, as well. My email is mya2mya@gmail.com When you have a bill that allows for humane exceptions to the rule, please notify me and I will help you vigorously fight for its passing. You have my word.

      • Posted By: Redlabel @ 11/03/2008 12:01:41 AM

        Dear Mya: I am encouraged that you find the concept of late-term abortion gruesome and reprehensible. Now I would challenge you to critically consider the following: Surgeries are currently being performed on babies (pro-choice folks often prefer fetuses) while they are in the womb. These surgeries are performed to correct any number of health related issues that would otherwise have to wait until the baby was born. Often if these surgeries were not performed in the womb, the child would be stillborn. In order to ensure the baby feels no pain during the surgery, the child is actually put under an anesthetic. This is done because doctors have proven that a child in the womb does experience pain. Given this fact, doesn't abortion seem cruel and unusual irrespective of whether it is performed in the womb or not?

        As to Mr. Obama's "position" on partial-birth abortion. Do you realize that the same arguments were made regarding slavery prior to the Civil War? Slavery was framed by the slave-owning southern states as a states rights issue. They argued that the federal government had no right to regulate slavery. Thankfully, leaders and statesmen in our federal government had the moral courage to stand against that abomination. It cost hundreds of thousands of young American lives to rid this country of slavery. It also arguably cost a Republican President by the name of Abraham Lincoln his life.

        I sincerely pray that we never have to divide our country brother against brother and sister against sister for another civil rights issues. However, I believe someone must speak for those who are not allowed to speak for themselves. This is not a states rights issue. It is the most important civil rights issue since the abolishment of slavery.

        Please consider your position on abortion carefully and critically. If you would like to discuss this further, my email is Redlabel@svtv.com

        Thanks.

        • Posted By: MyaFor Obama @ 11/03/2008 4:10:19 AM

          Dear Redlabel,

          Thank you for your well written post. I don't think anyone who is "pro-choice" is pro inhumanness. The older I become, the further I am driven away, from the black and white of right and wrong, into the grey area. While on one hand I agree with you, I also agree with a woman's right to choose. I don't agree with abortion being used as a careless form of birth control and would support much more to be done in this area. In fact, I see huge potential in using both what you and StarNoble wrote about the gruesome graphics of abortion through literature in sex ed in schools and in doctor's offices to encourage more prevention and responsibility in using birth control. Let girls and women know ahead of time what facing an abortion truly means...graphically. This is a gut wrenching subject and a gut-wrenching choice. I personally would like to see both sides move closer to the middle. I know of abortions that were in the best interest of the woman, and sometimes the humane alternative for the fetus, baby you say. When that life becomes sentient is something only God knows for sure. I am sure "that" unknowing wrecks havoc on everyone's conscience. It does mine. I've seen it in those who had to choose. Regardless, never should that life be terminated inhumanely. I think if pro-lifers didn't make it so much an all or nothing issue, more progress could be made. At least, as a pro-choice woman, I see the necessity for humaneness.

          I think the issue of civil rights gets raveled in the issue of when that life is sentient, when the soul enters, because that's when there's a life with a civil right. I'm thinking out loud here, as this is a heart-wrenching subject, one hard to think about. With the sentient issue, upon which no human can determine, I can see how this becomes a states-issue. Either way, I would like to meet you somewhere in the middle between choice and humaneness and definitely more education.

          • Posted By: islay @ 11/03/2008 2:16:51 PM

            To Redlabel:
            You write well and have expressed your points convincingly. I have one question for you. Is a pro-life position dependent, philosophically, on the existence of God? I tend to think not, but many of the pro-lifers argue from the moral strength of a divine being. Could you not just as easily take a pro-life position without invoking God and simply make it an essential human right?

            • Posted By: Redlabel @ 11/03/2008 7:52:52 PM

              Islay: Your question is well informed and deserves a direct answer. I do believe that a pro-life position can be made absent the direct imperative of a Supreme Being. You will note in my post that I never made any claim with respect to a religious imperative regarding abortion. I simply compared a single argument regarding the role of the federal government in the abolition of slavery with the role the federal government has chosen not to take regarding the civil rights of the unborn. Other parallels between the abortion issue and slavery can be drawn quite easily if one is willing to evaluate both issues critically. I'll give you one example. In the pre-Civil War United States, representation in the US House of Representatives was based on population of a state in much the same way as it is today. However, do you realize that negroes (the prevalent term used for slaves at the time, and not capitalized during those times on purpose to further dehumanize the slaves) were only counted as 2/3 of a man? This was done for two reasons. First, it further devalued and dehumanized slaves. Second, it reduced representation from the slave-owning states. Fast forward to today and you find the same dehumanizing of children in the womb taking place. Pro-choice supporters rarely refer to a baby in the womb as a child or a baby. That would assign a certain level of humanity to the child. Instead, they refer to her as a fetus. See how much easier it is to frame the abortion issue if you dehumanize the victim! There are numerous other comparisons that are chillingly similar to the slavery issue.

              In the final analysis, in our heart of hearts, each of us knows that abortion is wrong. It does not require a belief in God. Unfortunately, many people are unwilling or unable, due to their own desensitization, to hear that still small voice that clearly says "This is wrong."

              Thanks.

        • Posted By: MyaFor Obama @ 11/03/2008 4:09:36 AM

          (Dear Redlabel Part 2)

          I really admired the groups of pro-lifers and individuals who made it possible for a young woman to keep her baby when some opened their homes, their hearts and their wallets to help her overcome the obstacles of emotional, physical and financial support. The last thing we need is more girls on welfare, so I am all for the active mentoring provided by loving families that encourage the girl to finish her education and become productive in society. But when the girl is not emotionally able, or on drugs, or in an abusive relationship with the father, or a rape victim, I can also see the wisdom of the alternative. There is grey area.

          I found it distressing to read about the rate of abortions going up now as so many people are losing their jobs and homes. Some of these woman must be devastated. This country is in a huge mess and I am not naive enough to think there is a quick fix, but we have to start to repair us. On the issue of the economy, I do believe Barack is the better candidate. Well, I believe Obama is the better candidate on many issues. And, I believe he is a man who wants to govern for the people, and in so doing will keep an open mind to changing his own mind when necessary. And open mind requires as much, and I find he is a progressive thinker who is not so rigid. I've read what he wrote about his feelings on abortion, and it did not sound like a packaged up political statement. It sounded as if he was as disturbed as me, and found the issue gut-wrenching also. Is it possible we can find some common ground here?

          My sincerest regards, Mya mya2mya@gmail.com

    • Posted By: rexymeteorite @ 11/03/2008 8:05:42 AM

      Because that was up to the court to decide. The Supreme court said abortion was okay, therefore its okay. If they say otherwise, I guess its otherwise. I am not a consitiutional scholar, nor do I pretend to be, but the people in the supreme court are given the right to interpret the constitution the way the see fit. They set the legal precedent, I just follow it. If Roe v Wade is ever overturned, then I guess Ill think differently on the subject.

      One thing is for sure, my personal opinion is that abortion is irresponisble and should never be used. If you are having sex please use contraceptives if you dont want a kid. Dont use abortion as birth control.

  • Posted By: markh@gpcompanies.com @ 11/03/2008 7:41:02 PM

    Its already done. Mccain wins in a landslide. Remember Bush vs Gore and Bush vs Kerry. The country is in good hands, Republican hands not an anti-American terriost named Obama! The only thing is how can we get rid of all the Anti-American morons who voted for Obama. These people are unsafe for my family and my country!

  • Posted By: Gleeson @ 11/03/2008 7:23:41 PM

    I used to live in Pa tomarmstrong , and I hope yo're right. You just might be, but don't forget the rampant corruption during the last two elections. Patience my friend. The fat lady will sing Gleeson

  • Posted By: tomarmstronghm @ 11/03/2008 6:54:24 PM

    A message for the GOP: start packing! If McCain is hoping for a Pennsylvania windfall, he has bet on the wrong horse. I don't give a damn what they do in the western part of the state. Pennsylvania is determined by what happens in the five southeastern counties, including Philadelphia. In 1960, JFK took a 500,000 plurality out of Philadelphia, more than enough to offset Republican tendencies in the rest of the state. Considering the suburban counties of Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks, and Chester now lean to the Democrats, Obama will only need a 300,000 plurality in Philadelphia to win the state. Do you really think the Democrats will have trouble getting out the vote in Philadelphia? Obama is incredibly well organized in the southeastern corner of the state. I have experienced it first hand. So look to the Philadelphia vote tomorrow night. If Obama wins by 300,000+, Pennsylvania and the election is his.

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