Obama's view of the future of America - Socialism which is the next step to Communism!!
Under socialism a ruling class of intellectuals, bureaucrats and social planners decide what people want or what is good for society and then use the coercive power of the State to regulate, tax, and redistribute the wealth of those who work for a living. In other words, socialism is a form of legalized theft.
The morality of socialism can be summed-up in two words: envy and self-sacrifice. Envy is the desire to not only possess another's wealth but also the desire to see another's wealth lowered to the level of one's own. Socialism's teaching on self-sacrifice was nicely summarized by two of its greatest defenders, Hermann Goering and Bennito Mussolini. The highest principle of Nazism (National Socialism), said Goering, is: "Common good comes before private good." Fascism, said
Mussolini, is "a life in which the individual, through the sacrifice of his own private interests??realizes that completely spiritual existence in which his value as a man lies."
Socialism is the social system which institutionalizes envy and self-sacrifice: It is the social system which uses compulsion and the organized violence of the State to expropriate wealth from the producer class for its redistribution to the parasitical class.
Despite the intellectuals' psychotic hatred of capitalism, it is the only moral and just social system.
Capitalism is the only moral system because it requires human beings to deal with one another as traders--that is, as free moral agents trading and selling goods and services on the basis of mutual consent.
Capitalism is the only just system because the sole criterion that determines the value of thing exchanged is the free, voluntary, universal judgement of the consumer. Coercion and fraud are anathema to the free-market system.
It is both moral and just because the degree to which man rises or falls in society is determined by the degree to which he uses his mind. Capitalism is the only social system that rewards merit, ability and achievement, regardless of one's birth or station in life.
Yes, there are winners and losers in capitalism. The winners are those who are honest, industrious, thoughtful, prudent, frugal, responsible, disciplined, and efficient. The losers are those who are shiftless, lazy, imprudent, extravagant, negligent, impractical, and inefficient. [What about the role of luckbeing in the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time? R. R. Pope}
Capitalism is the only social system that rewards virtue and punishes vice. This applies to both the business executive and the carpenter, the lawyer and the factory worker.
FACTCHECK.ORG
Saddleback Bloopers
Obama makes misleading claims about ethics legislation and abortion at a church-sponsored forum. McCain exaggerates his tax-cut proposals.
Aug 18, 2008 | Updated: 4:20 p.m. ET Aug 18, 2008
-
Posted By: Jim Johnson @ 10/16/2008 1:00:54 PM
-
Posted By: Krohn @ 10/12/2008 8:33:43 PM
THE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION CANDIDATE!
NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY HAS A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE BEEN GIVEN SUCH A FREE PASS BY THE PRESS AND JUST ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE!
I AM WAITING FOR A BLACK PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE TO MAKE IT ON HIS OWN MERIT.
COLIN POWELL COMES TO MIND!
-
Posted By: Krohn @ 10/09/2008 7:26:28 PM
They harassed her until she registered to vote six times!:
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3145562&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/
-
Posted By: Krohn @ 10/08/2008 11:31:51 PM
"Not all Democrats agree with Mr. Frank that such policies are off-limits to criticism. Last week Rep. Artur Davis of Alabama said in a statement: 'Like a lot of my Democratic colleagues I was too slow to appreciate the recklessness of Fannie and Freddie. I defended their efforts to encourage affordable homeownership, when in retrospect, I should have heeded the concerns raised by their regulator in 2004. Frankly, I wish my Democratic colleagues would admit when it comes to Fannie and Freddie, we were wrong.'
"Mr. Davis is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus."
'Rank snobbery'
Camille Paglia, who supports Sen. Barack Obama, has nothing but scorn for the way the media has treated Sarah Palin.
"The mountain of rubbish poured out about Palin over the past month would rival Everest. What a disgrace for our jabbering army of liberal journalists and commentators, too many of whom behaved like snippy jackasses," Miss Paglia writes at www.salon.com.
"The bourgeois conventionalism and rank snobbery of these alleged humanitarians stank up the place. As for Palin's brutally edited interviews with Charlie Gibson and that viper, Katie Couric, don't we all know that the best bits ended up on the cutting-room floor? Something has gone seriously wrong with Democratic ideology, which seems to have become a candied set of holier-than-thou bromides attached like tutti-frutti to a quivering green Jell-O mold of adolescent sentimentality."
-
Posted By: ICYEYES800 @ 08/25/2008 10:03:53 PM
Osama looks like a fragile school girl compared to McCain in every format. The fact that Biden(old and senile) spoke more about his drop dead georgous wife and her wonderful college credentials was overwhelming, It may have been his best effort at trying to make Americans to take their eyes off the every floundering Michelle....and her failure to apeal to women because of her masculine and BLACK POWER mentality...However when Biden couldn't remember Barry's last name and called him Barry America...that was the BEST BLOOPER EVER...great ad lib, Joe.....But, the problem is that it's given Americans a NEW
name for Obama......Captain America....he about as believeable and trustworthy as a cartoon character..
JUST SAY NO TO O-
Posted By: Sandy from Iowa @ 08/26/2008 11:49:44 AM
The name is oBama... oSama is the guy that the Bush Administration let get away after he masterminded the killing of Americans on American soil. McCain is just an older Bush, now. There was a time when I thought McCain might have been what Obama is: A leader whose vision is a strong America that works. But McCain's time is past. He reminds me of the absentminded uncle who can never remember where he left his car keys and has to bum a ride everywhere.
-
Posted By: RockRibbedConservative @ 10/07/2008 7:09:18 PM
Bill Clinton had at least EIGHT opportunities to terminate Bin Laden. He and his merry band would not pull the trigger on Bin Laden even after 17 sailors were murdered in Oct of 2000
BTW the objective of WW II was not to kill Hitler, but to crush the daylights out of the Third Reich. -
Posted By: ICYEYES800 @ 08/26/2008 8:33:32 PM
You are obviously uninformed about CURRENT events...In case you missed it, IT WAS THE MESSIAH, himself, who introducted Biden as "this man will make a wonderful President"!!!!! Then, he had to be outdone by KOOKY Biden who ranted and raved about his drop dead georgous wife and her college credentials (who cares)...then the BIG ONE....Biden couldn't remember Barry's last name so he called him barrack America.....YIPES....do either of them have a clue who's on first???? Thus, we've just dubbed O as captain America...He about a real as a cartoon character...Talk about absent minded?????McCain looks like a genuis compared to these two....DUMB AND DUMBER>>
-
Posted By: Keepinguponfacts123 @ 08/27/2008 6:55:14 PM
Yes, I guess McCain would look like a genuis through rose colored glasses.
-
-
-
-
Posted By: Krohn @ 10/06/2008 5:53:24 PM
The Antichrist!:
When George Soros failed to obtain the election of his candidate, John Kerry, in 2004, he brooded for a while, even said he might get out of politics altogether, but he just couldn???t stop himself. He has stated publicly that he wishes to burst the ???bubble of American supremacy,??? because he says our preeminence in the world is a detriment to global ???equilibrium.??? So far, he has failed, but he keeps on trying.
And Mr. Soros has made no secret either of the fact that he sees the shortest way to effect political shake-ups, what he terms ???regime changes,??? is through very difficult economic conditions.
America has not yet felt the full force of Soros style economic shock treatment. But others have.
Soros made his first billion in 1992 by shorting the British pound with leveraged billions in financial bets, and became known as the man who broke the Bank of England. He broke it on the backs of hard-working British citizens who immediately saw their homes severely devalued and their life savings cut drastically in comparative worth almost overnight.
When the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997 threatened to spread globally, George Soros was right in the thick of it. Soros was accused by the Malaysian Prime Minister of causing the collapse with his monetary machinations, and he was branded in Thailand as an ???economic war criminal??? who ???sucks the blood from the people.??? Right in the middle of this crisis, Soros dashed off his book, The Crisis of Global Capitalism, which demanded a ???third way??? toward economic stability.
Wake up, America, before it is too late!!!!
-
Posted By: a REAL mom @ 09/09/2008 10:36:07 AM
Obama might have misspoke about the # of abortions going down... the next question is... how many Rx were filled with the "Day After" pill,since Bush has been in office? That is going to make a HUGE difference! Besides that, people who are staning on this (and other social issue, need to worry about who rep. them in the state they live... not the President...) that will NEVER change because of a President. We hire them to make $$ for us.
-
Posted By: Omaar @ 08/19/2008 7:39:52 PM
Reality: Saddleback Will Not Change Peoples Minds, when their Minds are Made up and don't Forget the Demographics Below.....
1. Obama Still Leads in the Polls
2. John McCain has NEVER LEAD in the Polls.
3. Polls don't Matter
4. Polls are Deceptive
5. Early Voting in Some States Favors Obama
6. Most People have made up their MINDS...Sorry
7. Freedom of Religion, Agnostics, Atheist and People Indifferent Towards Religions, will not be MOVED by Saddleback...Sorry
Note: Newly Sworn In Americans from 10 Years back to the Most Present, will Overwhelmingly Vote for Obama. Afro Americans, Hispanic & Asian Americans will Overwhelmingly Vote for Obama.
Bi-Racial Americans ages 18 & Upwards will Vote for Obama.
Young White America 18-45, Male and Female will Vote for Obama in Large Numbers. The Highly Educated and Poor America, that Spans all Races.
Independent Voters will Overwhelmingly Vote for Obama. All Single Mothers in America, Regardless of Race.
Parents of Bi-Racial Children will Vote for Obama and Large Military and Americans Abroad will Vote for Obama.
Young Independent & Moderate Republicans will Vote for Obama and the Gay American Vote as well.
American Females Make Up the Majority Of America and Most will Vote for Obama. The Pro-Choice Female Vote , Roe Vs. Wade, Pro-Choice an "A Woman's Right to Choose" Plays a Big Factor, Obama will get that Vote, EASILY.
American Females & Parents Against the War, will Easily Vote for Obama.
Most of these People have made up their Minds, Already and No saddleback Church will change that. Keep this in Mind, also Obama Garnered (18 Milion Votes Too) and Most of Clinton's Voters are going to Vote Democratic Anyway, they have already cast her Aside, as they Refuse to help her get Rid of her Campaign ( SHE STILL OWES MILLIONS)
Note Obama made 51 Million Dollars last Month, who do you think is Divying Up The Cash...Hmmmm
John McCain and Racist White America have Not Factored all these Demographics, at all and they will come back to Haunt him in November.
Underestimating Obama will Prove itself Real, this coming Novemeber, as a Very Big McCain Blunder.-
Posted By: simonanunhappydem @ 08/25/2008 3:47:48 AM
Well, it looks like you KNOW the outcome of the election. However, you may be proven wrong. Obama has a lot of baggage and the republicans are not so squeamish as Clinton was, they will nail him for every one of them. The democrats, by naming Obama instead of Clinton as their nominee, broke the election wide open. Unlike you I believe that it is and will be very close.
-
Posted By: Keepinguponfacts123 @ 08/27/2008 7:45:03 PM
McCain is not so squeaky clean. He is a dirty old man.
-
-
-
Posted By: eric in va @ 08/18/2008 5:04:32 PM
Um... Biggest Blooper of them all??
This is pretty obvious - from the transcript:
WARREN: Define marriage.
MCCAIN: A union ??? a union between man and woman, between one man and one woman. That???s my definition of marriage...Could I ??? are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court Justices or should I mention ???
WARREN: We will get to that.
MCCAIN:
WARREN: You???re jumping ahead (inaudible).
---
Next time they need to do this somewhere like the No Spin Zone. If this could have been edited it would come off beautifully. But now this is not only making McCain appear dishonest, but it makes him look incapable of even hitting softball pitches - he was being given underhanded lobs that Pete Rose would have bet on and he hit some good ones, but in the end it still gets you kicked out of the game when things are rigged.
Just sad...
http://www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/08/17/full-transcript-saddleback-presidential-forum-sen-barack-obama-john-mccain-moderated-by-rick-warren/-
Posted By: obamasuxx @ 08/26/2008 3:30:30 PM
What is the big blooper or do you not know how important the Supreme Court is in this issue?
-
-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 2:13:26 AM
Reuters Blogs Tales from the Trail
August 16th, 2008
Obama says pointed abortion query ???above his pay grade???
Posted by: Ed Stoddard
DALLAS - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama side-stepped a pointed query about abortion on Saturday by ???mega-pastor??? Rick Warren during a televised forum.
Asked at what point a baby gets ???human rights,??? Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: ?????? whether you???re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity ??? is above my pay grade.???
He went on to reiterate his view that it was important to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.
Republican presidential candidate John McCain, who followed Obama onto the stage of the nationally televised event, was more blunt and more emphatic.
He said a baby???s human rights began ???at the moment of conception ??? I have a 25-year pro-life record.???
Both candidates were vying for the ???faith vote,??? in particular the one in four U.S. adults who count themselves as evangelical.
Obama took questions first from Warren and McCain followed. The two shared the stage together briefly.
Some centrist evangelicals have said they appreciate moves by the Democratic Party to ???soften??? the edges of its pro-choice stand by stressing the need to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions ??? and by also working harder in areas like adoption.
But for many conservative evangelicals ??? a key part of the evangelical base ??? life begins at conception and the argument ends there.-
Posted By: Obamaforprez @ 08/25/2008 4:31:56 PM
I am amazed at those of you who have done no research and just repeat things; Senator Obama is not for abortion rights he is for a woman's right to choose there is a big difference; in fact most individuals have said they are for the right to choose...
-
-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 10:41:10 AM
When Warren inquired into changes of mind on big issues, Obama fretted about welfare reform; McCain unashamedly said "drilling" ??? for reasons of national security and economic need.
On taxes, Obama waxed political: "What I'm trying to do is create a sense of balance and fairness in our tax code." McCain showed an understanding of what drives a free economy: "I don't want to take any money from the rich. I want everybody to get rich. I don't believe in class warfare or redistribution of the wealth."
To any honest observer, the differences between John McCain and Barack Obama have been evident all along. What we saw last weekend was Obama's shallowness juxtaposed with McCain's depth, the product of his extraordinary life experience.
It may not have been a debate, but it was one of the most lopsided political contests in memory. No wonder Obama wants to keep debate formats boring and predictable.-
Posted By: Obamaforprez @ 08/25/2008 4:22:33 PM
McCain is an idiot for saying I want everyone to be rich. (I want everyone to be black but it won't happen) What is McCain 's plans for helping the middle and lower classes, he has no plans he just wants everybody to be rich - What an idiot!!
-
-
Posted By: Karenn1 @ 08/18/2008 7:02:59 PM
Frankly who cares about saddlecrap.Obama said it loud and clear. against abortion..Now lets talk about the economy,rotten food chain, corruption, illegal war,dead U S soldier,benefits for returning troops or are they returning.What is McCaind plan cut taxs and print more money.Hello Herbert Hoover.
-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/21/2008 11:51:53 AM
Karenn1 -
It's obvious that you care about what you term "saddlecrap," because you introduced the topic in your rant.
In the Saddleback forum, Obama did not say that he is against abortion, rather he claimed the opposite - that he supports abortion, and his past voting record confirms that convenient lack of integrity.
If you are hearing impaired, you could adjust the display properties of your TV to enable the closed caption option.
Then if you can read, you might be able to actually realize what Obama has said and how he regularly spews contradictory statements from day to day.
-
-
Posted By: tiredoflies @ 08/18/2008 7:22:21 PM
McCain Cheated. Period. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that one.
He was in his motorcade when Obama was being questioned. On top of that he did not give candid answers but stump speeches which pastor Warren let him get away with.
RIGGED ??? YOU BET! But that is todays republican.-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/21/2008 11:35:48 AM
tiredoflies -
Those flies are "getting to you"!
Do you have any supportive evidence to validate your knee-jerk reactionary rant?
-
-
Posted By: MelGoetia @ 08/18/2008 8:01:32 PM
Of course abortion rates have gone down!
Gosh in the State of Oregon, for example, having a child means a FREE RIDE.
In the good ol' days if a gal got herself knocked-up out of wedlock she was hosed. She was an Unwed Mother and she would be disowned from her family, kicked out of High School, be forced to make it on her own with her mulatto love child and most likely die of an overdose of heroin a few years later. The child would more than likely end up in the prison system or dead of the same fate that killed the mother. Or she could have an abortion and continue with her life.
I remember as a child hearing an editorial commentary by L.A. TV Newsman George Putnam in which he was discussing legalizing abortion for the safety sake of the mother. At that time he mentioned that an abortion could be done by the girl herself with a coat hanger. It was a very long night at our house as I, befuddled, ask my parents for more knowledge. The very notion that the SHAME involved in having an illegitimate child could bring a gal to damage herself, risk hemorrhage and even death to end an accident of adolescent immaturity caused me to be a lifelong supporter of abortion. I have been the designated driver on more than one occasion for girls whose sperm donors were no longer around and have seen firsthand the relief many of them felt after the procedure was completed. But, that was then.
In today???s Brave New World, thanks in the most part to the hippies, our WOMAN, at any age, WILL get FREE healthcare, FREE housing, FREE foodstuffs, FREE education, FREE counseling, FREE daycare, ???Un???-Earned Income Tax Credit ???Refunds??? (usually the max of $4,000 annually) and the title of Single Parent. Not to mention that each bastard child she has gets her a raise in income up to a max of four in some states. Of course the children still end up in the prison system but isn???t that the plan?
Good Luck
Mel Goetia
melgoetia@melgoetia.com-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/21/2008 11:29:45 AM
MelGoetia -
What a pathetic attempt to justify abortion!
Nowhere in your rant do you suggest that girls and women should display some integrity and responsibility in their sexual escapades!
You make it "sound" as though females have a God-given right for promiscuous sex and abortion!
And then you even attempt to denigrate the women who have the moral fiber to raise a child who was born out of wedlock!
Is this an example of your "Brave New World"?
If so, hopefully you will be unable to have any children, because you don't demonstrate any ability to truly love anyone, or even respect yourself.
Sometimes wanton sexual activity will thankfully render a woman incapable of giving birth.
-
-
Posted By: ikie12pts @ 08/18/2008 8:03:03 PM
The basis for the entire "program" was nothing more than an Evangelical "setup" for Obama. McCain knew which questions were going to be asked and was tutored by evangelical pastors. How deceitful can these holy rollers be? I cannot believe that Obama walked into this thicket of wolves believing that they would be fair. They were Republican conservative Christians, handpicked by Warren. What a travesty!
-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/21/2008 11:10:16 AM
ikie12pts -
Do you have any actual FACTS to support your allegation that McCain was "tutored by evangelical pastors"?
If you don't, do you realize that you are looking foolish by making that accusation with no basis for your argument?
Maybe McCain was so prepared for the forum because he might actually attend Baptist church services somewhat regularly to pray and worship, whereas Obama doesn't appear to consider it important to become a practicing member of any church congregation.
Yet Obama claims to be a Christian - is that just because he may regard it to be a political advantage?
By his actions and omissions, it sure appears as though Obama would rather prostitute religious communities by using them merely to deliver campaign sermons from the elevated pulpit!
-
-
Posted By: Omaar @ 08/18/2008 8:27:02 PM
Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., showed he can make the soundbites sting (who's bland now?): "We are not all Georgians now," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation," per ABC's Matthew Jaffe and Julia Bain. "If we were Georgians and the Russians were invading our country and killing our people, we'd be in a state of war. And clearly, that's not what we want. And John sometimes, he's a good person, but he's a little bit given to this kind of bellicose rhetoric, which has a tendency to inflame conflicts rather than to diffuse them, and that's not what you want in a president."
------------------------------------------------------
Posted By: sharenews @ 08/18/2008 9:46:08 PM
It took Obama three statements to work his way up to what McCain already knew immediately about the intensity of the situation. . . given he knows the leaders, their people, the countries to the degree he does. For foreign affairs and security, Id take McCain any day..
-
Posted By: notroubleatall1963 @ 08/18/2008 10:47:41 PM
Sharenews, you're such a goddam goody-two-shoes. I bet you belong to the same country club, or aspire to, as McCrass and his class of bourgeois bigots.
-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 9:41:23 PM
notroubleatall1963 -
You've misspelled goddamn.
Also, here's a bit of confidential information for you - God doesn't damn good individuals - rather, it's the others who are subject to that punishment, if they don't reform.
Oh, by the way, who's McCrass - your next door neighbour?
Here's hoping for you!
-
-
Posted By: loriw @ 08/20/2008 5:37:40 PM
When Obama said he would turn to his wife and his grandmother in his administration I imagined him calling his grandmother at 3am. I had 2 grandmothers and one was quite informed and sharp til the end but if I were POTUS I don't think I would have put them on my short list of people to call for advice on running the nation (as much as I loved them both dearly)....
-
-
Posted By: patmac @ 08/18/2008 9:39:26 PM
Yeah, McCain's "we are all Georgians" bs, what a load! That guys is just biting at the bit to send more American troops to their death. Bomb Iraq, Bomb Iran, Now Bomb Russia, Drill here! Now! McCain is one unstable and SCARY human! God help America if we're dumb enough to vote him in.
-
Posted By: Cashew @ 08/19/2008 9:56:42 AM
Thank-you. God Forbid McCain become the next President to carry on the George Bush give it to the rich legacy.. His record, in the fact of life, shows him to be a lier and a cheat. Ask Ross P., who paid for McCain's first wife's medical care. Birds of a feather flock together. I wonder if the Kings who planned it all are really satified, They played their game for OIL and over 4000 have died. We surely do not need another War Mongelier in the president's Oval Office.
-
-
-
Posted By: vanbengler @ 08/18/2008 8:33:37 PM
We don't need freedom "of" religion. We need freedom "from" religion. The only problem is that the self-righteous right-wing reactionalry ultra conservative religionsists disgree. We need "their" religion. We need "their" definition of "morality". We need to follow their "rules" in order to be forgiven get to heaven.
I have a problem. I am pagan. With respect: Would all of you over-dogmatized, over-zealous, self-righteous, "elect" of Christianity get your "rapture" and "ascension" over with and done with? I am tired of hearing about it, and as far as I can tell it is about 4 years overdue.
Basically: Get to heaven (and the quicker the better) and leave making this world a better place to "pagans" like me.
Legislating morals: What a crock. Why not legislate intelligence? Why not legislate tolerance? Why not legislate compassion? Why not legislate forgiveness? Why not legislate love? Why not legislate smiling and saying hello to each other?
Forget free will and the power of choice. Forget personal responsibility. Just get your "rature" over with: Get saved, go to heaven, and be forgiven and never come back. Or, if there is any doubt about any of this, maybe you would like to legislate that, too?
-Brian Leslie Engler
-Brian Leslie Engler-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 9:22:08 PM
vanbengler -
Congratulations - you're already "half way there"!
From your comment - "I have a problem. I am pagan," you realize your problem, and all that remains is for you to solve it.
I'm praying for your conversion in that regard!
-
-
Posted By: Mr.tutto @ 08/19/2008 1:56:42 AM
Reproduced from another article of interest. Obama is being razzed by the usual suspects for saying that the theological, scientific and moral question of when human life becomes a human person is ???above his paygrade.??? . . . But even the Vatican doesn???t claim to know that precise answer. From the lips of Ratzinger:
???The Magisterium has not expressly committed itself to an affirmation of a philosophical nature [as to the time of ensoulment], but it constantly affirms the moral condemnation of any kind of procured abortion.???
So it???s above the Pope???s pay-grade as well.-
Posted By: Mimi13 @ 08/19/2008 2:13:51 PM
I think the official line is that an embryo has the POTENTIAL to become human life at conception, not that it IS human life. If a human being is created at the moment of conception, do we not need to issue birth and death certificates for miscarried "humans"? Should a woman who suffers a miscarriage plan a funeral and bury the products of miscarriage in consecrated ground? Can parents get tax deductions for children in the year they were conceived, rather than in the year they were born? If a murdered woman is found to be a few days pregnant, should the murderer be charged with TWO crimes (currently, only a child who could exist outside the womb is also considered a victim)? Can a pregnant women count the "child" in her womb as a person for purposes of using HOV lanes in high traffic areas? (Don't laugh, a woman in Northern Virginia tried this not so long ago.) Can airlines charge a pregnant woman more, since there are two passengers (probably not as long as they offer free passage to babies not occupying a separate seat, but not all airlines do this). Can concert venures that demand ALL persons must have tickets demand that a pregnant woman buy two tickets (many concert venues demand that even babies in arms have tickets -- how about babies in womb since there is a lot of eveidence that babies hear and respond to sounds, especially music, in womb)? What happens to all the "babies" in petri dishes that result from in vitro fertilization? Currently, the donors of the genetic materials can chose to discard them or freeze them for possible later usage. Are either of these things ethical if a "person" exists at the moment of conception? How can you chose to freeze a "person" at all, let alone indefinitely?
It sound so simple: Human life begins at conception. And, as a religious belief, it may work for some people. But if you codify this into law, it will have a broad range of ramifications.
Another factor, there is not even an agreement on what it means to be human. To a biologist, it means a particular structure of DNA. To an anthropologist, it means particular skill sets. To a religious person, it means the moment when the soul enters the body. But since you cannot prove the existance of a soul, how could you ever prove when it enters the body. It is an article of faith. And, in the United States, no one has a right to impose their faith on society at large.
So, yeah, the moment when a collection of cells is infused with human rights is above the "pay-grade" of every one of us here on earth. It's a question for the heavens.-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 1:06:57 PM
Mimi13 -
Do you ever bother to read your own comments before you post them?
You ask whether birth and death certificates should be issued for miscarried "humans".
If the baby has not been born (alive is the general expectation), why should a birth and death certificate be required? Just think about it!
Near the end of your blog, you state that the existence of a soul cannot be proven.
Are you conveniently forgetting that the televised forum took place in an evangelical church (evangelicals do believe that a soul does exist) , that Obama claims that he is a Christian (Christians do believe that a soul does exist), and that Obama is blatantly trying to appeal to individuals who are motivated and guided by their religion (those faithful believe that one's soul is worth saving)?
Irrespective of whether the soul is infused at the time of conception or later, Barack Obama, who supposedly believes that a soul exists, is willing to legislate unrestricted abortion that would obliterate the unborn infants.
He is oblivious to any warning from anyone that the vast number of abortions terminate a human life!
Would he disregard a warning from a mechanic that the brake system on his car is faulty, and take his family for an extended trip on the highway?
Would he disregard a warning from a beach lifeguard that sharks were sighted offshore, and lead his family to swim and splash in the coastal waters?
Would he disregard a warning from a forest ranger that the trees and tinder are extremely inflammable, and instead set up a bonfire to roast a few weiners or toast a few marshmellows?
Obviously his lack of ability to process facts and render rational decisions is evident!
Yes, I'm sure that the American voting public do now finally realize that Barack Obama is definitely very poorly unqualified for the position of POTUS!-
Posted By: loriw @ 08/20/2008 5:24:22 PM
Good reply Davole.
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't criminal law at least recognize that life begins before birth. A recent tragedy in Indy this year brought that debate into the fore front. A bank robber shot a women pregnant with twins in the abdomen. The twins died as a result of the gun shot wound. The scumbag robber cannot be charged with the twins' deaths because they were not quite to the age where IN considers it infanticide even though they were both gestationally viable. IN law has not kept up with medical advancements so the robber wins and the parents lost big time. Where are the human rights for these two dead babies?-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 9:09:52 PM
Lori -
Thanks for the compliment.
In answer to your question - it appears as though the God-given human rights of the unborn are subject to each individual state court's interpretation, and the due diligence or lack thereof of the prosecuting attorney.
-
-
-
-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 12:20:20 PM
Mr.tutto -
I appreciate that you accept the Pope's honestly expressed opinion regarding his comment concerning the time of ensoulment.
But do you also uphold his statement that abortion should not be an acceptable method of birth control, or are you merely "cherry-picking" his comments in a preposterous attempt to substantiate your specious opinion that unrestricted abortion is morally acceptable?
To conclude, I doubt that the Pope ever bothers to fixate on such a meaningless consideration as his "pay-grade" - that expression reeks of Obama and his shallowness of character!-
Posted By: mcrochip @ 08/20/2008 3:52:09 PM
I simply interpreted the 'above my paygrade' comment as saying that the decision is G-d's. As to the use of the term, the humored response from the audience suggests that they, unlike you, understood it to be a light-weight reference. Then again, if Obama had said that 'G-d makes that decision' you'd respond that he was pandering.
-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 8:52:56 PM
mcrochip -
Yes, the humored response from the audience indicated that they recognized that the "light-weight" had just spoken and thereby demonstrated his inability to fulfill the role of POTUS! -
Posted By: loriw @ 08/20/2008 5:17:52 PM
"above my paygrade" is a phrase I understand wasn't even originally his. Sorry when you are striving to be POTUS I don't think you get off with such a weak answer. Whoever becomes POTUS will make live and death decisions that affect not only Americans but other people of the world. I think he needed to be more specific on that one for my comfort level. At 47yrs of age I would have expected him to have a clear handle on what he personally believes on that on.
-
-
-
-
Posted By: Ur2slo4me @ 08/20/2008 6:39:02 PM
McCain said evil must be defeated! If we are people of faith, then what is it that we have faith in? It must not be the Holy Bible! The Bible never teaches us to defeat evil, it tells us to eschew evil, to hate evil, it yells us that God himself will ultimately defeat evil, we are to resist it. McCain reminds me of the seven sons of sceva, who fought the devil and was whipped down, the enemy told them Paul I know, Jesus I know but who are you? This story will prove true as McCain goes on saber rattling could actually launch this nation into another nuclear stand off or God forbid a nuclear War! In foriegn policy McCain is dangerous to our welfare and national security. We are bogged down in two wars and what will McCain do go to war with Russia over Georgia? Do you want you children to die over this issue? The issue of evil exists and YES it does exits on our streets in our cities and in us. Look at the people that will go into our churches and shoot people while they worship that's evil, a suicide bomber in a synagoue or a mosque is evil. If we entertain angel unaware then isnt the opposite true? McCain narrow view of evil missed the mark of what God construes as evil and I was highly disappointed at the evangelicals who should know the difference to be sucked into a sound bite when actually Obama gave the scriptually correct answer about. Remember the Apocalyptic battle of Armagedon is the defeat of evil and this victory is to be led by Christ not McCain....
-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 2:18:41 AM
Indeed, instead of taking a critical journalistic approach to this spin, Andrea Mitchell did what has become a pattern for her of simply repeating Obama campaign talking points.
This is irresponsible journalism and sadly, indicative of the level of objectivity we have witnessed at NBC News this election cycle. Instead of examining the Obama campaign's spin for truth before reporting it to more than 3 million NBC News viewers, Andrea Mitchell simply passed along Obama campaign conspiracy theories. The fact is that during Senator Obama's segment at Saddleback last night, Senator McCain was in a motorcade to the event and then held in a green room with no broadcast feed. In the forum, John McCain clearly demonstrated to the American people that he is prepared to be our next President.....
We are concerned that your News Division is following MSNBC's lead in abandoning non-partisan coverage of the Presidential race. We would like to request a meeting with you as soon as possible to discuss our deep concerns about the news standards and level of objectivity at NBC.
Sincerely,
Rick Davis
Campaign Manager
John McCain 2008-
Posted By: mcrochip @ 08/20/2008 3:55:30 PM
I saw some of the Saddleback forum, and watched Obama and McCain shake hands at the beginning of the event. This was before the questioning occurred. Now, if that's the case, how was McCain in the car at the time?
-
Posted By: loriw @ 08/20/2008 5:12:51 PM
mcrochip, the handshake occurred after Obama's segment and before McCain's segment.
-
-
Posted By: AskPlus @ 08/19/2008 6:49:23 PM
No. Your still lying - as usual. Will you please stop. If you do, you can resume your goal of becoming a blog intellectual - instead of a BS artist.
-
Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 12:02:16 PM
AskPlus -
Being the parrot that you are, it might be time to request that your handlers replace the heavily soiled newsprint at the bottom of your cage!
-
-
Report Abuse
Enter comments if any for reporting abuse
-
- Slate V: Dear Prudence: Go Ask Your Own Doctor!
- Netbooks, e-book readers, and other Black Friday bargains to avoid.
- No one wants America to be the sole global superpower, but no one wants to share the load.
- The Senate wants to put a "botax" on plastic surgery. That's a bad idea.
- A Slate contest: Can you write like Sarah Palin?
- Twenty five years feels right in my bones and right in my spirit. Oprah on ending her showCST
- It’s going to be a holy war Orrin Hatch on debate over the Senate health billNYT
- The nation and the world will see him for the coward he is Holder, on trying KSMAP
- I'm not scared of what Khalid Sheikh Mohammed will have to say. Holder on terror trialsREUT
- The out-of-context Newsweek approach is sexist. Sarah Palin on the magazine coverCSM
Discuss