FACTCHECK.ORG

Saddleback Bloopers

Obama makes misleading claims about ethics legislation and abortion at a church-sponsored forum. McCain exaggerates his tax-cut proposals.

 
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  • Posted By: Jim Johnson @ 10/16/2008 1:00:54 PM

    Comment: Obama's view of the future of America - Socialism which is the next step to Communism!!


    Under socialism a ruling class of intellectuals, bureaucrats and social planners decide what people want or what is good for society and then use the coercive power of the State to regulate, tax, and redistribute the wealth of those who work for a living. In other words, socialism is a form of legalized theft.

    The morality of socialism can be summed-up in two words: envy and self-sacrifice. Envy is the desire to not only possess another's wealth but also the desire to see another's wealth lowered to the level of one's own. Socialism's teaching on self-sacrifice was nicely summarized by two of its greatest defenders, Hermann Goering and Bennito Mussolini. The highest principle of Nazism (National Socialism), said Goering, is: "Common good comes before private good." Fascism, said
    Mussolini, is "a life in which the individual, through the sacrifice of his own private interests??realizes that completely spiritual existence in which his value as a man lies."

    Socialism is the social system which institutionalizes envy and self-sacrifice: It is the social system which uses compulsion and the organized violence of the State to expropriate wealth from the producer class for its redistribution to the parasitical class.

    Despite the intellectuals' psychotic hatred of capitalism, it is the only moral and just social system.

    Capitalism is the only moral system because it requires human beings to deal with one another as traders--that is, as free moral agents trading and selling goods and services on the basis of mutual consent.

    Capitalism is the only just system because the sole criterion that determines the value of thing exchanged is the free, voluntary, universal judgement of the consumer. Coercion and fraud are anathema to the free-market system.

    It is both moral and just because the degree to which man rises or falls in society is determined by the degree to which he uses his mind. Capitalism is the only social system that rewards merit, ability and achievement, regardless of one's birth or station in life.

    Yes, there are winners and losers in capitalism. The winners are those who are honest, industrious, thoughtful, prudent, frugal, responsible, disciplined, and efficient. The losers are those who are shiftless, lazy, imprudent, extravagant, negligent, impractical, and inefficient. [What about the role of luck­being in the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time? R. R. Pope}

    Capitalism is the only social system that rewards virtue and punishes vice. This applies to both the business executive and the carpenter, the lawyer and the factory worker.

  • Posted By: Krohn @ 10/12/2008 8:33:43 PM

    Comment: THE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION CANDIDATE!

    NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY HAS A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE BEEN GIVEN SUCH A FREE PASS BY THE PRESS AND JUST ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE!

    I AM WAITING FOR A BLACK PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE TO MAKE IT ON HIS OWN MERIT.

    COLIN POWELL COMES TO MIND!

  • Posted By: Krohn @ 10/09/2008 7:26:28 PM

    Comment: They harassed her until she registered to vote six times!:
    http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3145562&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/

  • Posted By: Krohn @ 10/08/2008 11:31:51 PM

    Comment: "Not all Democrats agree with Mr. Frank that such policies are off-limits to criticism. Last week Rep. Artur Davis of Alabama said in a statement: 'Like a lot of my Democratic colleagues I was too slow to appreciate the recklessness of Fannie and Freddie. I defended their efforts to encourage affordable homeownership, when in retrospect, I should have heeded the concerns raised by their regulator in 2004. Frankly, I wish my Democratic colleagues would admit when it comes to Fannie and Freddie, we were wrong.'

    "Mr. Davis is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus."

    'Rank snobbery'

    Camille Paglia, who supports Sen. Barack Obama, has nothing but scorn for the way the media has treated Sarah Palin.

    "The mountain of rubbish poured out about Palin over the past month would rival Everest. What a disgrace for our jabbering army of liberal journalists and commentators, too many of whom behaved like snippy jackasses," Miss Paglia writes at www.salon.com.

    "The bourgeois conventionalism and rank snobbery of these alleged humanitarians stank up the place. As for Palin's brutally edited interviews with Charlie Gibson and that viper, Katie Couric, don't we all know that the best bits ended up on the cutting-room floor? Something has gone seriously wrong with Democratic ideology, which seems to have become a candied set of holier-than-thou bromides attached like tutti-frutti to a quivering green Jell-O mold of adolescent sentimentality."

  • Posted By: Krohn @ 10/06/2008 5:53:24 PM

    Comment: The Antichrist!:
    When George Soros failed to obtain the election of his candidate, John Kerry, in 2004, he brooded for a while, even said he might get out of politics altogether, but he just couldn???t stop himself. He has stated publicly that he wishes to burst the ???bubble of American supremacy,??? because he says our preeminence in the world is a detriment to global ???equilibrium.??? So far, he has failed, but he keeps on trying.

    And Mr. Soros has made no secret either of the fact that he sees the shortest way to effect political shake-ups, what he terms ???regime changes,??? is through very difficult economic conditions.

    America has not yet felt the full force of Soros style economic shock treatment. But others have.

    Soros made his first billion in 1992 by shorting the British pound with leveraged billions in financial bets, and became known as the man who broke the Bank of England. He broke it on the backs of hard-working British citizens who immediately saw their homes severely devalued and their life savings cut drastically in comparative worth almost overnight.

    When the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997 threatened to spread globally, George Soros was right in the thick of it. Soros was accused by the Malaysian Prime Minister of causing the collapse with his monetary machinations, and he was branded in Thailand as an ???economic war criminal??? who ???sucks the blood from the people.??? Right in the middle of this crisis, Soros dashed off his book, The Crisis of Global Capitalism, which demanded a ???third way??? toward economic stability.

    Wake up, America, before it is too late!!!!

  • Posted By: a REAL mom @ 09/09/2008 10:36:07 AM

    Comment: Obama might have misspoke about the # of abortions going down... the next question is... how many Rx were filled with the "Day After" pill,since Bush has been in office? That is going to make a HUGE difference! Besides that, people who are staning on this (and other social issue, need to worry about who rep. them in the state they live... not the President...) that will NEVER change because of a President. We hire them to make $$ for us.

  • Posted By: ICYEYES800 @ 08/25/2008 10:03:53 PM

    Comment: Osama looks like a fragile school girl compared to McCain in every format. The fact that Biden(old and senile) spoke more about his drop dead georgous wife and her wonderful college credentials was overwhelming, It may have been his best effort at trying to make Americans to take their eyes off the every floundering Michelle....and her failure to apeal to women because of her masculine and BLACK POWER mentality...However when Biden couldn't remember Barry's last name and called him Barry America...that was the BEST BLOOPER EVER...great ad lib, Joe.....But, the problem is that it's given Americans a NEW
    name for Obama......Captain America....he about as believeable and trustworthy as a cartoon character..
    JUST SAY NO TO O

    • Posted By: Sandy from Iowa @ 08/26/2008 11:49:44 AM

      Comment: The name is oBama... oSama is the guy that the Bush Administration let get away after he masterminded the killing of Americans on American soil. McCain is just an older Bush, now. There was a time when I thought McCain might have been what Obama is: A leader whose vision is a strong America that works. But McCain's time is past. He reminds me of the absentminded uncle who can never remember where he left his car keys and has to bum a ride everywhere.

      • Posted By: RockRibbedConservative @ 10/07/2008 7:09:18 PM

        Comment: Bill Clinton had at least EIGHT opportunities to terminate Bin Laden. He and his merry band would not pull the trigger on Bin Laden even after 17 sailors were murdered in Oct of 2000
        BTW the objective of WW II was not to kill Hitler, but to crush the daylights out of the Third Reich.

      • Posted By: ICYEYES800 @ 08/26/2008 8:33:32 PM

        Comment: You are obviously uninformed about CURRENT events...In case you missed it, IT WAS THE MESSIAH, himself, who introducted Biden as "this man will make a wonderful President"!!!!! Then, he had to be outdone by KOOKY Biden who ranted and raved about his drop dead georgous wife and her college credentials (who cares)...then the BIG ONE....Biden couldn't remember Barry's last name so he called him barrack America.....YIPES....do either of them have a clue who's on first???? Thus, we've just dubbed O as captain America...He about a real as a cartoon character...Talk about absent minded?????McCain looks like a genuis compared to these two....DUMB AND DUMBER>>

        • Posted By: Keepinguponfacts123 @ 08/27/2008 6:55:14 PM

          Comment: Yes, I guess McCain would look like a genuis through rose colored glasses.

  • Posted By: Ur2slo4me @ 08/20/2008 6:39:02 PM

    Comment: McCain said evil must be defeated! If we are people of faith, then what is it that we have faith in? It must not be the Holy Bible! The Bible never teaches us to defeat evil, it tells us to eschew evil, to hate evil, it yells us that God himself will ultimately defeat evil, we are to resist it. McCain reminds me of the seven sons of sceva, who fought the devil and was whipped down, the enemy told them Paul I know, Jesus I know but who are you? This story will prove true as McCain goes on saber rattling could actually launch this nation into another nuclear stand off or God forbid a nuclear War! In foriegn policy McCain is dangerous to our welfare and national security. We are bogged down in two wars and what will McCain do go to war with Russia over Georgia? Do you want you children to die over this issue? The issue of evil exists and YES it does exits on our streets in our cities and in us. Look at the people that will go into our churches and shoot people while they worship that's evil, a suicide bomber in a synagoue or a mosque is evil. If we entertain angel unaware then isnt the opposite true? McCain narrow view of evil missed the mark of what God construes as evil and I was highly disappointed at the evangelicals who should know the difference to be sucked into a sound bite when actually Obama gave the scriptually correct answer about. Remember the Apocalyptic battle of Armagedon is the defeat of evil and this victory is to be led by Christ not McCain....

  • Posted By: gobbledegook @ 08/20/2008 3:58:23 PM

    Comment: HOLY MOLEY, McCain vowed to defeat evil in our lifetimes, not his. Free Will will thwart predestination; so much for the pundits.

  • Posted By: bojack27 @ 08/20/2008 10:59:55 AM

    Comment: I brought some tissues for those who are blowing SNOT BUBBLES in public.... all of you demo(n)crats are upset now that Obama bombed on the major questions.... I have a question to all of you demo(n)crats who are whinning now that McCain has taking the lead in the polls and closed the gap on THE GREAT PRETENDER OBAMA..... what did you think the Saddleback Forum was going to be talking about? Each question was designed to show the morality of each canidate and where each stood on issues concerning Christian voters .....notice I said Christian voters!... It was Obama who is trying to pass himself off as a Christian in a church format.... now that he has be revealed as a pseudo Christian who lacks the moral fiber to stand up for the defenseless (unborn) and lies about the reduction of abortions under President Bush's administration and his support to terminate children who were born alive and yet he still voted against to let them live..... he is a fake and was expose nationally and the polls are finally reflecting his immorality, his lack of leadership, his weak foreign policy stance and his overall failure to acknowledge the need for offshore drilling.....

    He is not ready to be the President of the United States.......... in my opinion

  • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/19/2008 7:39:52 PM

    Comment: Reality: Saddleback Will Not Change Peoples Minds, when their Minds are Made up and don't Forget the Demographics Below.....

    1. Obama Still Leads in the Polls


    2. John McCain has NEVER LEAD in the Polls.

    3. Polls don't Matter

    4. Polls are Deceptive

    5. Early Voting in Some States Favors Obama

    6. Most People have made up their MINDS...Sorry

    7. Freedom of Religion, Agnostics, Atheist and People Indifferent Towards Religions, will not be MOVED by Saddleback...Sorry

    Note: Newly Sworn In Americans from 10 Years back to the Most Present, will Overwhelmingly Vote for Obama. Afro Americans, Hispanic & Asian Americans will Overwhelmingly Vote for Obama.

    Bi-Racial Americans ages 18 & Upwards will Vote for Obama.

    Young White America 18-45, Male and Female will Vote for Obama in Large Numbers. The Highly Educated and Poor America, that Spans all Races.

    Independent Voters will Overwhelmingly Vote for Obama. All Single Mothers in America, Regardless of Race.

    Parents of Bi-Racial Children will Vote for Obama and Large Military and Americans Abroad will Vote for Obama.

    Young Independent & Moderate Republicans will Vote for Obama and the Gay American Vote as well.

    American Females Make Up the Majority Of America and Most will Vote for Obama. The Pro-Choice Female Vote , Roe Vs. Wade, Pro-Choice an "A Woman's Right to Choose" Plays a Big Factor, Obama will get that Vote, EASILY.

    American Females & Parents Against the War, will Easily Vote for Obama.

    Most of these People have made up their Minds, Already and No saddleback Church will change that. Keep this in Mind, also Obama Garnered (18 Milion Votes Too) and Most of Clinton's Voters are going to Vote Democratic Anyway, they have already cast her Aside, as they Refuse to help her get Rid of her Campaign ( SHE STILL OWES MILLIONS)

    Note Obama made 51 Million Dollars last Month, who do you think is Divying Up The Cash...Hmmmm

    John McCain and Racist White America have Not Factored all these Demographics, at all and they will come back to Haunt him in November.

    Underestimating Obama will Prove itself Real, this coming Novemeber, as a Very Big McCain Blunder.

    • Posted By: simonanunhappydem @ 08/25/2008 3:47:48 AM

      Comment: Well, it looks like you KNOW the outcome of the election. However, you may be proven wrong. Obama has a lot of baggage and the republicans are not so squeamish as Clinton was, they will nail him for every one of them. The democrats, by naming Obama instead of Clinton as their nominee, broke the election wide open. Unlike you I believe that it is and will be very close.

      • Posted By: Keepinguponfacts123 @ 08/27/2008 7:45:03 PM

        Comment: McCain is not so squeaky clean. He is a dirty old man.

  • Posted By: C. MacLean @ 08/19/2008 7:08:26 PM

    Comment: The biggest blooper was thinking an evangelical minister could ask appropriate or meaningful questions about the issues.

    He can't, and didn't.

  • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/19/2008 5:23:47 PM

    Comment: McCain's Broken Classics.....

    #1 Hit: I told You "The Surge Would Work"

    Note: As Though McCain Originated "The Surge" When in Fact "The Surge" is General McFarland's Military Strategy and it did not happen at Anbar, "The Surge" happened in (Bagdad) The Bloody Anbar Awakening Happened Almost a Year Before "The Surge" and General Petraeus was Not in Iraq, During "The Anbar Awakening" or "The Surge"...

    The Anbar Awakening: Is the Crucial Turning Point in the Iraq War and without it, The Surge would still be at Day One and the Casualties Would still be Prevalent. Yet Semi-Senile John McCain has Projected himself as the Creater of "The Surge", as though, Mccain Concieved, Created and his "Surge Strategy" was Implemented by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the President, based on Mccain's "Military Experience" when all He did was Sign on a Non-Partisan BandWagon to send an Additional 20,000 Troops....

    Thats All McCain Did.

    McCain Hit #2: "I know how to Win Wars"

    Oh Really John ? Are you Counting Viet Nam as a WIN for America ? You were Locked Up and being Tortured Day & Night, Remember ? John, Name One Military Strategy that you had Concieved, Created and had Implemented by the President & his Joint Chiefs of Staff...

    Please and Don't Mention "The Surge" I just Squashed that LIE


    McCain Hit #3: "No Timetable for Withdrawal, Come Home in Victory"

    What is a Victory to You John McCain ? The President of Iraq wants us OUT, The President of the USA is setting a "Time Horizon" and its been said, the Time Frame is (2010) Yet, We should Leave in Victory, Not Enough Dead Bodies, for you John ??
    ---------------------------------------

    John McCain Hit #4: "The 4 1/2 Year Military Strategy Failed, Because it was a Poorly Planned & Poorly Executed"

    McCain is Condemning Joint Chiefs Of Staff, The President, The Vice President, Himself, The Senators & Congressmen and Women who Voted on all the Military Strategies, leading up, to the "Surge" and Above all else the US Military Performed their Jobs Incompetently, Thats Exactly what he's saying...

    Yet McCain Double Talks and Calls the U.S Military Honorable, Brave and Corageous..McCain has to Open his EYES WIDE and Accept that he was a Major Force in Voting 95% of the Time on the Iraq War and All Bush Military, Foreign and Domestic Policies....Fact

  • Posted By: Prestwood @ 08/19/2008 4:29:58 PM

    Comment: Have you heard about Rick Warren's new book - The Purpose Driven Lie!!!! It was released on Sat at the Civic Forum. Every story produced now about the Civic Forum, Rick Warren and John McShame and the Lies they are still producing to cover up the CONE GATE scandal has a different twist and turn. No doubt McShame knew the questions and got ahead of himself with the prepared answers. Just view the tape yourself. There is no doubt that Republican Warren (even though he says he is an Independent) didn't even ask the same questions - although he puts words to the questions to make people think they were the same questions. Not even the very 1st question was the same. He asked Obama who in his personal life and in his admin would he consult with - He asked McShame who in his admin....BIG Difference...Also - McShame was so happy he was performing to standards of the ROVE ATTACK Machine - he got ahead of him self witht the answers....Please do not let this story die because ANGRY Rick Davis sent a letter to NBC complaining about A Mitchell....that is how the McShame campaign and the RNC makes stories disappear that have truth to them about their low road tactics and strategies....Even if it isn't this that continues as a story ...it is time for the press and the journalist and commentators to start questioning McShame....oh what you can't because the ATTACK DOGS now keep him from the PRESS. Come all.....lets not be decieved nor afraid of these tactics....McShame got 1 thing right during the Civic Forum when he answered that Evil must be Defeat....lets start with his campaign......Defeat Evil and the McShame run for President

  • Posted By: Prestwood @ 08/19/2008 4:29:01 PM

    Comment: Have you heard about Rick Warren's new book - The Purpose Driven Lie!!!! It was released on Sat at the Civic Forum. Every story produced now about the Civic Forum, Rick Warren and John McShame and the Lies they are still producing to cover up the CONE GATE scandal has a different twist and turn. No doubt McShame knew the questions and got ahead of himself with the prepared answers. Just view the tape yourself. There is no doubt that Republican Warren (even though he says he is an Independent) didn't even ask the same questions - although he puts words to the questions to make people think they were the same questions. Not even the very 1st question was the same. He asked Obama who in his personal life and in his admin would he consult with - He asked McShame who in his admin....BIG Difference...Also - McShame was so happy he was performing to standards of the ROVE ATTACK Machine - he got ahead of him self witht the answers....Please do not let this story die because ANGRY Rick Davis sent a letter to NBC complaining about A Mitchell....that is how the McShame campaign and the RNC makes stories disappear that have truth to them about their low road tactics and strategies....Even if it isn't this that continues as a story ...it is time for the press and the journalist and commentators to start questioning McShame....oh what you can't because the ATTACK DOGS now keep him from the PRESS. Come all.....lets not be decieved nor afraid of these tactics....McShame got 1 thing right during the Civic Forum when he answered that Evil must be Defeat....lets start with his campaign......Defeat Evil - Vote Democratic - Barack Obama 08

  • Posted By: tiredoflies @ 08/19/2008 4:17:19 PM

    Comment:
    Again, what FactCheck did NOT point out is that what Obama said WAS in and of itself THE TRUTH ..

    IN CONTRAST, MCCAIN ACTUALLY LIES AND FACTCHECK LETS MOST OF THAT GO.

  • Posted By: AskPlus @ 08/19/2008 2:15:46 PM

    Comment: Wow. The liars ans smearers page. I thought that was on the other page - highlighting all of Mr. McCain lies. Mr. Holmes, Zombie Hero, pearson, davole the would-be intellect, bojack, and cowen - all present and accounted for. Doesn't Mr. McCain remind you guys of the movie Dave? No? Don't forget to get together and think up new smears for Mr. Mccain 72 birthday next Friday. Don't discount the demographics.

    • Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 11:16:50 AM

      Comment: AskPlus -

      Being the parrot that you are, it might be time to request that your handlers replace the heavily soiled newsprint at the bottom of your cage!

    • Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 08/19/2008 3:47:15 PM

      Comment: Do not be obtuse. If I am ''lying''then you should have no problems refuting said lies. Put up or shut up. In the meanwhile,

      www.cnn.com TRANSCRIPT Anchor Rick Sanchez with Pastor Rick Warren,August 17,2008.

      www.foxnews.com TRANSCRIPT Commentators Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes with Pastor Rick Warren,August 18,2008.

      • Posted By: AskPlus @ 08/19/2008 3:55:56 PM

        Comment: Hannity? Warren? Fox?!

        Doesn't that kind of refute itself? Didn't the persons and entities mentioned start the smears?
        Please understand the definition of obtuse would be attempting to defend these bogus liars - and they are and they know it - with biased, known liars and platforms. Good on you Mr. Holmes. Can you be intellectual and obtuse at the same time?

  • Posted By: oynx3442 @ 08/19/2008 12:21:12 PM

    Comment: "Guttmacher Institute: In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million abortions in 2000."

    Factcheck.org - if you were really checking stats on abortion why would you present a horrible stat like this? Why not look at the overall trend of ALL abortions over the last 8 years versus the trends before that in a similar 8 year time period? Why would you single out the number of abortions in ONE year? Here is a similar stat, a town has 0 murders in 2006 and in 2007 they have 1 murder - whoa, murder is now up 100% in that town! Please report numbers that make sense before making outrageous claims.

  • Posted By: Lee Holmes @ 08/19/2008 11:56:02 AM

    Comment: Say FACTCHECK. How about the ''bloopers''from Obamas press sycophants at NBC and The New York Times?

    There never was a ''Cone of Silence''. After going on the liberal CNN with Mark Sanchez and torpedoeing the rumours on Sunday night,Pastor Rick Warren went on the conservative FOX with Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes yesterday evening and sank them,repeating his position that the only person who was given any questions in advance was...Barack Obama.[whose campaign has not yet responded].

  • Posted By: pearsoncrz @ 08/19/2008 11:17:05 AM

    Comment: "We need a president who sees government not as a tool to enrich well-connected friends and high-priced lobbyists, but as the defender of fairness and opportunity for every American," the candidate said in his June speech. "That's the kind of president I intend to be."

    But his actions don't match his words. Away from the bright lights and high-minded rhetoric of the campaign trail, Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., has quietly worked with corporate lobbyists to help pass breaks worth $12 million.

    "It's an entire culture in Washington -- some of it legal, some of it not," the Democratic hopeful told a New York crowd in June, rallying support for his ethics reform agenda.

    But last year, at the request of a hired representative for an Australian-owned chemical corporation Nufarm, Obama introduced nine separate bills exempting the company from import fees on a range of chemical ingredients it uses in the manufacture of pesticides and herbicides. Nufarm's U.S. subsidiary is based in Illinois.
    While legal, Obama's bills on behalf of Nufarm and other companies are part of the special treatment machine Washington rolls out for special interests, say good-government watchdogs.

    "If you have a company...there's a whole factory set up to help you get these suspensions," said Steve Ellis, president of the Washington, D.C.-based watchdog group Taxpayers for Common Sense. "It's a pay-to-play system you have to rev up and work." Hire the right lobbyist, pay the right fee, and you can save millions, he explained.

    In Nufarm's case, Obama's staff met with a lawyer representing the company, Joel Junker, in person and on the phone several times, Junker told ABC News. Junker says he worked with Obama's staff to craft the nine bills and keep them moving forward.

    In a glowing financial report issued just two months after Obama introduced Nufarm's numerous tariff-lifting bills, Nufarm told its shareholders it was making more money than ever before in North America because it had increased its prices on its U.S. and Canadian customers, predominantly farmers.

    In particular, "price rises on phenoxy herbicides," a family which includes 2,4 D, "improved the profitability of those products, despite no significant increase in sales volumes."

    Economics aside, some medical researchers also harbor concerns over 2,4 D. Studies have purported to find a link between high exposure to the chemical and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a type of cancer. Defenders of the chemical say it is safe, and note that even scientists who believe a link exists cannot explain how the chemical may cause the cancer.

    Only one other 2008 presidential hopeful has introduced more tariff suspension bills to benefit major corporations than Obama -- Longshot GOP candidate Sen. Sam Brownback, Kan. Sen. John McCain introduced none.

  • Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 10:43:57 AM

    Comment: No Contest
    by INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, August 18, 2008 4:20 PM PT

    Election '08: Last weekend's McCain-Obama protodebate made it clear why Obama won't keep his promise to debate McCain "anywhere, anytime." McCain, with a robust resume and details at his fingertips, won big.

    It was only in May that Sen. Barack Obama cockily proclaimed he would debate Sen. John McCain "anywhere, anytime." But in June, Obama said no to McCain's challenge to have 10 one-on-one town hall meetings.

    After what happened at Lake Forest, Calif.'s evangelical Saddleback megachurch Saturday evening, we may have found that debating is Obama's Achilles' heel. Whether or not you like the idea of such events being held in religious venues, the plain-and-simple method of questioning used by Saddleback pastor and best-selling author Rick Warren revealed fundamental differences between these two men.

    "It's one of those situations where the devil is in the details," Obama said at one point. He could have been referring to his own oratorical shortcomings when a teleprompter is unavailable. We learned a lot more about the real Obama at Saddleback than we will next week as he delivers his acceptance speech in Denver before a massive stadium crowd.

    The stark differences between the two came through the most on the question of whether there is evil in the world. Obama spoke of evil within America, "in parents who have viciously abused their children." According to the Democrat, we can't really erase evil in the world because "that is God's task." And we have to "have some humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil."

    For McCain, with a global war on terror raging, there was no equivocating: We must "defeat" evil. If al-Qaida's placing of suicide vests on mentally-disabled women and then blowing them up by remote control in a Baghdad market isn't evil, he asked: "You have to tell me what is."

    Asked to name figures he would rely on for advice, Obama gave the stock answer of family members.

    McCain pointed to Gen. David Petraeus, Iraq's scourge of the surge; Democratic Rep. John Lewis, who "had his skull fractured" by white racists while protesting for civil rights in the 60s; plus Internet entrepreneur Meg Whitman, the innovative former CEO of eBay.

    • Posted By: DavidCA @ 08/19/2008 9:32:36 PM

      Comment: Sorry for reposting this, but it's apropos to your last point.

      McCain's answer to the first question Saturday night didn't pass the smile test.

      "Who were [sic] the three wisest people that you know that you would rely on heavily in an administration?"

      1. David Petraeus, Centcom Commander - In the United States, Senator, we have a little thing called civilian control of the military. I know it's hard for retired Captain McCain, USN, to adjust his thinking, but as President he would be Petraeus' boss, not the other way around. Lord knows, I wish my boss would listen to me sometimes, but most of the time I'd rather have clear direction that I can figure out how to realize. Whether you agree with him or not, Obama's pledge - "I will give our commanders in Iraq a new mission, to end this war" - is more in line with the Constitution.

      2. John Lewis, Congressman (D-Georgia 5th) - Really, Senator? You noted that he was beaten and injured on the Selma march in 1965, but I doubt you were listening to John Lewis when you voted against a federal holiday for that other guy in that march (Martin Luther King, Jr.), or at any other time in your life. But, prove me wrong and invite him to speak at your convention! His speech at the 2004 DNC convention was really good, after all.

      3. Meg Whitman, retired CEO of ebay - Brilliant! She did have that one great idea we all wish for, namely how to use the internet to sell all our excess stuff, but could this have more to do with the facts that she's a big Republican donor and that she formerly supported Mitt Romney? I know, let's make her Secretary of DoGS (Department of Garage Sales); is that your secret plan for dealing with our record budget deficit?

      Are you smiling? QED.

      • Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 11:29:08 AM

        Comment: DavidCA -

        Gee, I didn't notice any requirement that John McCain was obliged to pass any smile test in providing honest answers to the questions from the pastor.

        Would you please provide some factual information to support your contention?

        To conclude, you ask whether I am smiling - LOTFL!

        Good day!

  • Posted By: mk3872 @ 08/19/2008 10:43:11 AM

    Comment: How could you forget to mention that McCain supported 2 of the 3 judges he said he now DOES NOT SUPPORT?

  • Posted By: mk3872 @ 08/19/2008 10:42:39 AM

    Comment: How about debunking McCain stating that human rights begin at conception? An non-implanted human egg is not a life sustainable without its host. Plus, if this were true, that would make McCain's promise of supporting embryonic stem cell research moot. He would be breaking the law and committing murder.

  • Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 10:41:10 AM

    Comment: When Warren inquired into changes of mind on big issues, Obama fretted about welfare reform; McCain unashamedly said "drilling" ??? for reasons of national security and economic need.

    On taxes, Obama waxed political: "What I'm trying to do is create a sense of balance and fairness in our tax code." McCain showed an understanding of what drives a free economy: "I don't want to take any money from the rich. I want everybody to get rich. I don't believe in class warfare or redistribution of the wealth."

    To any honest observer, the differences between John McCain and Barack Obama have been evident all along. What we saw last weekend was Obama's shallowness juxtaposed with McCain's depth, the product of his extraordinary life experience.

    It may not have been a debate, but it was one of the most lopsided political contests in memory. No wonder Obama wants to keep debate formats boring and predictable.

    • Posted By: Obamaforprez @ 08/25/2008 4:22:33 PM

      Comment: McCain is an idiot for saying I want everyone to be rich. (I want everyone to be black but it won't happen) What is McCain 's plans for helping the middle and lower classes, he has no plans he just wants everybody to be rich - What an idiot!!

  • Posted By: stonehenge @ 08/19/2008 10:27:58 AM

    Comment: McLady doth protest too much.

  • Posted By: cowen123456 @ 08/19/2008 9:38:44 AM

    Comment: The forum was great! for the first time, I can compare and contrast the candidate on the same topics and with the same questiosns covering taxes, faith, foreign affairs and judicial thinking. I like the non-gotcha questions and the non-tabloid like..."..we have you on tape saying this and that...". I think the Obama camp perceived their candidate as doing bad so they are now attacking the event as being unfair. I thought that Obama came across as expected. He's never really that great at one on one but excellent on stage doing a speech. However, Mccain surpassed expectation because his townhall hasn't exactly being televised end to end ever on any of the networks. I tried to watch them on the net and Mccain is exactly as he was at the forum so it was not a surprise to me. At the end of the day, Mccain came across as who he is and said directly what he believes. Like him or hate him, at least you know where he stands on hard issues. Obama on the other hand still appears to be a man in search of principle positions and in search of solid stands on hard issues. They are very different and we all have a clear choice to make in november.

  • Posted By: Cashew @ 08/19/2008 9:24:19 AM

    Comment: The Saddleback debates are a joke.
    I have read the many coments and not one mentioned the fact that the Angelical Right Wing are very religious people and are doing their part to convince the middle-class votors to vote their way and only their way. I was taught you could be Religious about anything, even how to use others to edify your position. It doesn't matter if McCain knew the right words to say. His personal life is a record of deception and lies. From my studies he has gotten where he is today because of the MONEY, not leadership. Wasn't he one of the bottom ten in his class, yet he still was sllow to become a pilot. How did he do that?
    Money talks in politics. He dumped his first wife, an invalid, (no longer the model he married, and couldn't support his life style}, so with his notable name he chased an other model, 18 years his junior , with lots of money. I understand he believes you have to have 5 million to be considered rich. A true believer knows money can't buy happiness unless you have the inability to think clearly about what your actions are. Is that his problem or is he just another jig---. Actions speak louder than words.
    In my veiw Obama answered from the heart as much as possibe. He had to think and not give a canned answer. He woud be the first to admit he does not have all the answers, and sometimes has to change his mind when shown a better way. He also knows you cannot, by our constitution legislate morality and expect others to believe the same way.
    This Great Grandma hopes Obama wins this election, even though I have voted Republican for more thatn 47 years.
    Obama, did push to have apartments built for the less fortunate, but isn't it the responsibility of the landlord to keep the property up . .

    • Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 11:57:33 AM

      Comment: Cashew -

      You question why John McCain was able to rise from being one of the bottom 10 in his class to become a pilot. Obviously even the lowest reported members of that elite class had what it takes to succeed.
      See what can happen when some people actually strive to achieve a worthwhile goal!

      Then you criticize the fact that he obtained a divorce upon returning to the US after having endured 6 years as a POW, and having served much of that time in solitary confinement. That could have a profound affect on any person! Don't you realize that?

      Are you aware that close to 50% of marriages in the US end in divorce? So, what's your point?

      You state that Obama answered from the heart. I may agree with you here, but if so, why is his heart located in his posterior?

      Lastly, you say that you are a great grandma - are you the one that Obama tossed under the bus a while back?

      If so, get back on your feet, humbly stand proud, remember where the "typical white woman" comment originated, and pray that Obama will search for, attain, and be guided by a compassionate Christian religion which is not preoccupied with racial stereotypes and denigrations.

    • Posted By: bojack27 @ 08/19/2008 12:32:14 PM

      Comment: What do you think the left wing liberals are doing? If deception and lies are apart of his life and you believe that is the only reason why he has been in office for more than a quarter of the century then you aren't as informed as you think you are... What happen between his wife and him is documented and what makes it good is that the both of them still get along.... The 5 million part was a joke in which you didn't get and McCain even said they (the liberal media) will misconstrue his sayings over this..... I cannot argue with your view because it is your view but to me Obama wasn't direct becuase he was trying to appease those who support him and trying to gain new supporters claiming to be just like he is..... he lied and his voting record on abortion proves it ..... Obama doesn't have all the answers and neither does McCain but Obama inexperience showed in all aspects of the forum.. Speaking of legislating morality.... it is the demoncrats who want to legislate morality on others by forcing them to accept homosexuality as being normal while our religous beliefs say otherwise.... and if we don't agree with them we are labeled as racist.... As far as you being a Great Grandma I give you alot of respect because you have voted longer than I have been alive..... but I think that you are turning a bling eye towards the real issue .... Obama is not ready to be president.... I'm a republican and I know that Hillary has more experience than he does and would have been a better choice for the democrats..... As for the landlord situation.... Obama has the responsibility as a lawyer and public official to protect the citizens from unlawful practices and people in which he failed to even protect himself from.... this shows his lack of judgement .... and character because he knew this guy was crooked and continued to let him raise funds for him..... bad judgement on his part...

    • Posted By: pearsoncrz @ 08/19/2008 10:09:34 AM

      Comment: Yes, actions speak louder than words. Obama has requested earmarks for his political cronies, financial backers, and even his wife's employer after they gave her a huge raise. McCain has requested none and fought against this backdoor pay to play system.

      Obama obtained 12 million in tax waivers for foreign companies - 12 MILLION!

      Obama lies about his positions, and changes them when he thinks he needs to to get elected. He copied Clinton's platform so she wouldn't be able to challenge him on policy, then started changing it as soon as he became the presumptive nominee. He shifted from pro-Palestinian to pro-Israel when he decided to run for national office, telling his Palestinian pals that he would be more upfront about his real position after the close election was over. He told his church going anti-gambling supporters that he opposed state legislation in favor of gambling, then voted to allow the gambling, and now that developer is one of his biggest financial backers.

      He skirts the edge, pushes the envelope on ethical requirements, not disclosing that a single client (Blackwell) was the primary source of his income while he was a state legislator, and then helped Blackwell obtain hundreds of thousands in public money for a project.

      Rev. Wright knew the man for 20 years, and was his "spiritual father" according to Obama, and even Rev. Wright says Obama will say and do whatever he thinks he needs to say and do to get elected.

      Rev. Wright has it right.

  • Posted By: mightnotvoteobama @ 08/19/2008 8:11:33 AM

    Comment: its funny how the obama camp is crying foul now ! after its all over ... did the obama camp NOT know that he would be put on the spot ? thay had to think the abortion question would come up and obama should have better prepared himself for the questions as for mccain cheating thats just some more crap because obama lost the over all q&a forum but he did good though ! givin his veiws on the type of stuff that was asked ! but mccain did great !

    • Posted By: catspaw @ 08/19/2008 2:03:31 PM

      Comment: I'm sorry, but I felt McCain said what he thought the people want to hear and he was also to "ready" for the questions. Also, how did he know about the Supreme Court Question?! Obama spoke from his heart, To me, Obama is the one who did Great.

      • Posted By: loriw @ 08/20/2008 5:11:29 PM

        Comment: Each candidate was given general categories that would be discussed but not specific questions. So both were told there will be questions about the Supreme Court of the U.S.
        You are entitled to your opinion but I found it amazing that all 8 analysts immediately following the forum disagreed with you.

  • Posted By: cferns1530 @ 08/19/2008 3:39:25 AM

    Comment: Well although i hope Obama wins the nomination, i still think McCain just was more clear with his message. Obama tried to reach out to both parties by reasoning why he was for abortion but went little too far with the facts. And same goes for McCain and his tax issue. Obama stuck to being broad range and hasnt stood his ground firmly. He is trying to unite or attract both parties, but is sacrificing some of his own parties votes by being too broad. Finally, after all the hoop-la about 'cone of silence' McCain still impressed.

    One thing though, when it comes to attracting religious voters and getting them behind oneself, who better than a republican to attract? And i dont doubt, that the gay and abortion factor wins them by a landslide, even after Bush's agenda to use it distract America from the War and outfox Kerry.
    Democratic candidates, being termed liberal always have to wait till the last day to get unified voters since there is always hesitancy. I wont underestimate the uniqueness of this election with Barack and Hillary, but still they need to unite much earlier just like the Republicans did.

  • Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 2:22:10 AM

    Comment: McCain Protests NBC Coverage
    Politico by Mike Allen Aug. 17, 2008

    McCain's campaign manager Rick Davis asked Sunday for a meeting with Steve Capus, the president of NBC News, to protest what the campaign called signs that the network is "abandoning non-partisan coverage of the Presidential race."

    Davis made the request Sunday in a letter that is part of an aggressive effort by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) to counter news coverage he considers critical.

    Politico has asked NBC for a response and will post that here when it arrives.

    In this case, the campaign is objecting to a statement by NBC's Andrea Mitchell on "Meet the Press" questioning whether McCain might have gotten a heads-up on some of the questions that were asked of Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), who was the first candidate to be interviewed Saturday night by Pastor Rick Warren at a presidential forum on faith.

    Warren told the audience that McCain was being held in "a cone of silence" so he wouldn't hear the questions, which were similar for both candidates.

    Warren referred again to "the cone of silence" when McCain came onstage, and the senator joked: "I was trying to hear through the wall."

    Mitchell reported that some "Obama people" were suggesting "that McCain may not have been in the cone of silence and may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama. He seemed so well prepared."

    A McCain aide said that is not the case: "Senator McCain was in a motorcade led by the United States Secret Service and held in a green room with no broadcast feed."

  • Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 2:20:28 AM

    Comment: Here is the text of the letter:

    August 17, 2008
    Mr. Steve Capus
    President, NBC News
    30 Rockefeller Plaza
    New York, NY 10112

    Steve:

    We are extremely disappointed to see that the level of objectivity at NBC News has fallen so low that reporters are now giving voice to unsubstantiated, partisan claims in order to undercut John McCain.

    Nowhere was this more evident than with NBC chief correspondent Andrea Mitchell's comments on "Meet the Press" this morning. In analyzing last night's presidential forum at Saddleback Church, Mitchell expressed the Obama campaign spin that John McCain could only have done so well last night because he "may not have been in the cone of silence and may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama." Here are Andrea Mitchell's comments in full:

    Mitchell: "The Obama people must feel that he didn't do quite as well as they might have wanted to in that context, because what they are putting out privately is that McCain may not have been in the cone of silence and may have had some ability to overhear what the questions were to Obama. He seemed so well-prepared." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 8/17/08)

    Make no mistake: This is a serious charge. Andrea Mitchell is repeating, uncritically, a completely unsubstantiated Obama campaign claim that John McCain somehow cheated in last night's forum at Saddleback Church. Instead of trying to substantiate this blatant falsehood in any way, Andrea Mitchell felt that she needed to repeat it on air to millions of "Meet the Press" viewers with no indication that 1.) There's not one shred of evidence that it's true; 2.) In his official correspondence to both campaigns, Pastor Rick Warren provided both candidates with information regarding the topic areas to be covered, which Barack Obama acknowledged during the forum when asked about Pastor Warren's idea of an emergency plan for orphans and Obama said, "I cheated a little bit. I actually looked at this idea ahead of time, and I think it is a great idea;" 3.) John McCain actually requested that he and Barack Obama do the forum together on stage at the same time, making these kinds of after-the-fact complaints moot.

  • Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 2:18:41 AM

    Comment: Indeed, instead of taking a critical journalistic approach to this spin, Andrea Mitchell did what has become a pattern for her of simply repeating Obama campaign talking points.

    This is irresponsible journalism and sadly, indicative of the level of objectivity we have witnessed at NBC News this election cycle. Instead of examining the Obama campaign's spin for truth before reporting it to more than 3 million NBC News viewers, Andrea Mitchell simply passed along Obama campaign conspiracy theories. The fact is that during Senator Obama's segment at Saddleback last night, Senator McCain was in a motorcade to the event and then held in a green room with no broadcast feed. In the forum, John McCain clearly demonstrated to the American people that he is prepared to be our next President.....

    We are concerned that your News Division is following MSNBC's lead in abandoning non-partisan coverage of the Presidential race. We would like to request a meeting with you as soon as possible to discuss our deep concerns about the news standards and level of objectivity at NBC.

    Sincerely,

    Rick Davis
    Campaign Manager
    John McCain 2008

    • Posted By: mcrochip @ 08/20/2008 3:55:30 PM

      Comment: I saw some of the Saddleback forum, and watched Obama and McCain shake hands at the beginning of the event. This was before the questioning occurred. Now, if that's the case, how was McCain in the car at the time?

      • Posted By: loriw @ 08/20/2008 5:12:51 PM

        Comment: mcrochip, the handshake occurred after Obama's segment and before McCain's segment.

    • Posted By: AskPlus @ 08/19/2008 6:49:23 PM

      Comment: No. Your still lying - as usual. Will you please stop. If you do, you can resume your goal of becoming a blog intellectual - instead of a BS artist.

      • Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 12:02:16 PM

        Comment: AskPlus -

        Being the parrot that you are, it might be time to request that your handlers replace the heavily soiled newsprint at the bottom of your cage!

  • Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 2:13:26 AM

    Comment: Reuters Blogs Tales from the Trail
    August 16th, 2008

    Obama says pointed abortion query ???above his pay grade???
    Posted by: Ed Stoddard

    DALLAS - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama side-stepped a pointed query about abortion on Saturday by ???mega-pastor??? Rick Warren during a televised forum.

    Asked at what point a baby gets ???human rights,??? Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: ?????? whether you???re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity ??? is above my pay grade.???

    He went on to reiterate his view that it was important to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.
    Republican presidential candidate John McCain, who followed Obama onto the stage of the nationally televised event, was more blunt and more emphatic.

    He said a baby???s human rights began ???at the moment of conception ??? I have a 25-year pro-life record.???

    Both candidates were vying for the ???faith vote,??? in particular the one in four U.S. adults who count themselves as evangelical.

    Obama took questions first from Warren and McCain followed. The two shared the stage together briefly.
    Some centrist evangelicals have said they appreciate moves by the Democratic Party to ???soften??? the edges of its pro-choice stand by stressing the need to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions ??? and by also working harder in areas like adoption.

    But for many conservative evangelicals ??? a key part of the evangelical base ??? life begins at conception and the argument ends there.

    • Posted By: Obamaforprez @ 08/25/2008 4:31:56 PM

      Comment: I am amazed at those of you who have done no research and just repeat things; Senator Obama is not for abortion rights he is for a woman's right to choose there is a big difference; in fact most individuals have said they are for the right to choose...

  • Posted By: Mr.tutto @ 08/19/2008 1:56:42 AM

    Comment: Reproduced from another article of interest. Obama is being razzed by the usual suspects for saying that the theological, scientific and moral question of when human life becomes a human person is ???above his paygrade.??? . . . But even the Vatican doesn???t claim to know that precise answer. From the lips of Ratzinger:

    ???The Magisterium has not expressly committed itself to an affirmation of a philosophical nature [as to the time of ensoulment], but it constantly affirms the moral condemnation of any kind of procured abortion.???

    So it???s above the Pope???s pay-grade as well.

    • Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 12:20:20 PM

      Comment: Mr.tutto -

      I appreciate that you accept the Pope's honestly expressed opinion regarding his comment concerning the time of ensoulment.

      But do you also uphold his statement that abortion should not be an acceptable method of birth control, or are you merely "cherry-picking" his comments in a preposterous attempt to substantiate your specious opinion that unrestricted abortion is morally acceptable?

      To conclude, I doubt that the Pope ever bothers to fixate on such a meaningless consideration as his "pay-grade" - that expression reeks of Obama and his shallowness of character!

      • Posted By: mcrochip @ 08/20/2008 3:52:09 PM

        Comment: I simply interpreted the 'above my paygrade' comment as saying that the decision is G-d's. As to the use of the term, the humored response from the audience suggests that they, unlike you, understood it to be a light-weight reference. Then again, if Obama had said that 'G-d makes that decision' you'd respond that he was pandering.

        • Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 8:52:56 PM

          Comment: mcrochip -

          Yes, the humored response from the audience indicated that they recognized that the "light-weight" had just spoken and thereby demonstrated his inability to fulfill the role of POTUS!

        • Posted By: loriw @ 08/20/2008 5:17:52 PM

          Comment: "above my paygrade" is a phrase I understand wasn't even originally his. Sorry when you are striving to be POTUS I don't think you get off with such a weak answer. Whoever becomes POTUS will make live and death decisions that affect not only Americans but other people of the world. I think he needed to be more specific on that one for my comfort level. At 47yrs of age I would have expected him to have a clear handle on what he personally believes on that on.

    • Posted By: Mimi13 @ 08/19/2008 2:13:51 PM

      Comment: I think the official line is that an embryo has the POTENTIAL to become human life at conception, not that it IS human life. If a human being is created at the moment of conception, do we not need to issue birth and death certificates for miscarried "humans"? Should a woman who suffers a miscarriage plan a funeral and bury the products of miscarriage in consecrated ground? Can parents get tax deductions for children in the year they were conceived, rather than in the year they were born? If a murdered woman is found to be a few days pregnant, should the murderer be charged with TWO crimes (currently, only a child who could exist outside the womb is also considered a victim)? Can a pregnant women count the "child" in her womb as a person for purposes of using HOV lanes in high traffic areas? (Don't laugh, a woman in Northern Virginia tried this not so long ago.) Can airlines charge a pregnant woman more, since there are two passengers (probably not as long as they offer free passage to babies not occupying a separate seat, but not all airlines do this). Can concert venures that demand ALL persons must have tickets demand that a pregnant woman buy two tickets (many concert venues demand that even babies in arms have tickets -- how about babies in womb since there is a lot of eveidence that babies hear and respond to sounds, especially music, in womb)? What happens to all the "babies" in petri dishes that result from in vitro fertilization? Currently, the donors of the genetic materials can chose to discard them or freeze them for possible later usage. Are either of these things ethical if a "person" exists at the moment of conception? How can you chose to freeze a "person" at all, let alone indefinitely?

      It sound so simple: Human life begins at conception. And, as a religious belief, it may work for some people. But if you codify this into law, it will have a broad range of ramifications.

      Another factor, there is not even an agreement on what it means to be human. To a biologist, it means a particular structure of DNA. To an anthropologist, it means particular skill sets. To a religious person, it means the moment when the soul enters the body. But since you cannot prove the existance of a soul, how could you ever prove when it enters the body. It is an article of faith. And, in the United States, no one has a right to impose their faith on society at large.

      So, yeah, the moment when a collection of cells is infused with human rights is above the "pay-grade" of every one of us here on earth. It's a question for the heavens.

      • Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 1:06:57 PM

        Comment: Mimi13 -

        Do you ever bother to read your own comments before you post them?

        You ask whether birth and death certificates should be issued for miscarried "humans".
        If the baby has not been born (alive is the general expectation), why should a birth and death certificate be required? Just think about it!

        Near the end of your blog, you state that the existence of a soul cannot be proven.
        Are you conveniently forgetting that the televised forum took place in an evangelical church (evangelicals do believe that a soul does exist) , that Obama claims that he is a Christian (Christians do believe that a soul does exist), and that Obama is blatantly trying to appeal to individuals who are motivated and guided by their religion (those faithful believe that one's soul is worth saving)?

        Irrespective of whether the soul is infused at the time of conception or later, Barack Obama, who supposedly believes that a soul exists, is willing to legislate unrestricted abortion that would obliterate the unborn infants.

        He is oblivious to any warning from anyone that the vast number of abortions terminate a human life!

        Would he disregard a warning from a mechanic that the brake system on his car is faulty, and take his family for an extended trip on the highway?

        Would he disregard a warning from a beach lifeguard that sharks were sighted offshore, and lead his family to swim and splash in the coastal waters?

        Would he disregard a warning from a forest ranger that the trees and tinder are extremely inflammable, and instead set up a bonfire to roast a few weiners or toast a few marshmellows?

        Obviously his lack of ability to process facts and render rational decisions is evident!

        Yes, I'm sure that the American voting public do now finally realize that Barack Obama is definitely very poorly unqualified for the position of POTUS!

        • Posted By: loriw @ 08/20/2008 5:24:22 PM

          Comment: Good reply Davole.
          Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't criminal law at least recognize that life begins before birth. A recent tragedy in Indy this year brought that debate into the fore front. A bank robber shot a women pregnant with twins in the abdomen. The twins died as a result of the gun shot wound. The scumbag robber cannot be charged with the twins' deaths because they were not quite to the age where IN considers it infanticide even though they were both gestationally viable. IN law has not kept up with medical advancements so the robber wins and the parents lost big time. Where are the human rights for these two dead babies?

          • Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 9:09:52 PM

            Comment: Lori -

            Thanks for the compliment.

            In answer to your question - it appears as though the God-given human rights of the unborn are subject to each individual state court's interpretation, and the due diligence or lack thereof of the prosecuting attorney.

  • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/19/2008 1:11:58 AM

    Comment: If the McCain;s LIE about this half Sister, what won't they LIE About !!!!!

    Vickie Iseman is either Gagged and Bound, Er Um Hog Tied, or the B!tch is Swimming with the Fishes or ....

    WORSE she's lying Next to Jimmy Hoffa Somewhere Beneathe the Sea !!!!

    • Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 2:07:19 AM

      Comment: Omaar -

      Your rants are not in any way applicable to this discussion board regarding the Saddleback forum.

      Do you understand the meaning of the word "topic"?

      • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/19/2008 5:20:59 PM

        Comment: I Suggest You attend to Your rants an I attend to EXPOSING ALL THINGS MCCAIN...UNDERSTAND...

        When you Purchase NewsWeek, I'll Abide your Rules...

        But until that Mystical, majical, Majestical Moment Occurs....

        I'll Post whatever i choose, within NewsWeek Rules...

        Not Your Borderline-Bull-Spit !!!

        The Meeting is hereby Adjourned

        Purchase NewsWeek or Shut The F--K Up !!

        • Posted By: Davole @ 08/20/2008 1:23:02 PM

          Comment: Omaar -

          You continuously demonstrate that obamabots are incapable of staying on topic - thank you!

          Also, it's time to replace the heavily soiled newsprint at the bottom of your parrot's (AskPlus) cage!

          Do you also let him sit (or should that be s*it) occasionally on your shoulder?
          If you do, it's also probably time to send your obamabot T-shirt to the laundry facility!

        • Posted By: AskPlus @ 08/19/2008 6:51:32 PM

          Comment: I believe he thinks only is rants are relevant Mr. Omaar. Next he'll ask for appreciation from some other blogger if he stays to form.

  • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/19/2008 1:07:57 AM

    Comment: Cindy McCain's Denied Half Sister Part 2

    Source: www.npr.org

    Documents show Kathleen Anne Hensley was born to Jim and Mary Jeanne Hensley on Feb. 23, 1943. They had been married for six years when Kathleen was born.

    Jim Hensley was a bombardier on a B-17, flying over Europe during World War II.

    He was injured and sent to a facility in West Virginia to recuperate. During that time, while still married to Mary Jeanne, Hensley met another woman ??? Marguerite Smith. Jim divorced Mary Jeanne and married Marguerite in 1945.

    Cindy Lou Hensley was born nine years later, in 1954.

    She may have grown up as an only child, but so did her half sister, Kathleen, who was raised by a single parent.

    Portalski says she did see her father and her half sister from time to time.

    "I saw him a few times a year," she says. "I saw him at Christmas and birthdays, and he provided money for school clothes, and he called occasionally."

    Jim Hensley also provided credit cards and college tuition for his grandchildren, as well as $10,000 gifts to Kathleen and her husband, Stanley Portalski. That lasted a decade, they say. By then, Jim Hensley had built Hensley and Co. into one of the largest beer distributorships in the country. He was worth tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars.

    Sole Inheritor To Hensley's Estate

    When Hensley died in 2000, his will named not only Portalski but also a daughter of his wife Marguerite from her earlier marriage. So, Cindy McCain may be the only product of Jim and Marguerite's marriage, but she is not the only child of either.

    She was, however, the sole inheritor of his considerable estate.

    Kathleen Portalski was left $10,000, and her children were left nothing. It's a fact Nicholas Portalski says his sister discovered the hard way.

    "What she found in town ??? on the day of or the day before or the day after his funeral ??? was that the credit card didn't work anymore," Nick says.

    The Portalskis live in a modest home in central Phoenix. Kathleen is retired, as is her husband. Nicholas Portalski is a firefighter and emergency medical technician looking for work.

    They say it would have been nice if they were left some of the Hensley fortune.

    They also say they are Democrats, but Nicholas Portalski says he had another reason for coming forward.

    "The fact that we don't exist," he says. "The fact that we've never been recognized, and then Cindy has to put such a fine point on it by saying something that's not true. Recently, again and again. It's just very, very hurtful."

    Kathleen Portalski says she'd like an acknowledgment and an apology.

    NPR asked the McCain campaign ??? specifically, Cindy McCain ??? to comment or respond. Neither replied.

  • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/19/2008 1:06:33 AM

    Comment: NPR: Cindy McCain's Half Sister 'Angry' She's Hidden

    Kathleen Hensley Portalski displays newspaper clippings of her father in World War II, as well as snapshots of herself as a child with her father.


    Portalski is shown with her late father, Jim Hensley, who also was Cindy McCain's father.

    Nicholas Portalski, whose mother is Cindy McCain's HALF SISTER, says it's "VERY, VERY HURTFUL" that he and his mother haven't been recognized.


    All Things Considered, August 18, 2008 · Last Tuesday, NPR broadcast a story about Cindy McCain's business and charity work. In it, Ted Robbins described McCain as the only child of Jim Hensley, a wealthy Arizona businessman. The next morning, NPR received an e-mail from Nicholas Portalski of Phoenix, who heard the story with his mother.

    "We were listening to the piece about Cindy McCain on NPR, All Things Considered, and it just struck us very hard," Portalski said.

    His mother, Kathleen Hensley Portalski, is also Hensley's daughter.

    The Portalski family is accustomed to hearing Cindy McCain described as Hensley's only child.

    She's been described that way by news organizations from The New Yorker and The New York Times to Newsweek and ABC.

    McCain herself routinely uses the phrase "ONLY CHILD," as she did on CNN LAST MONTH. "I grew up with my dad," she said then. "I'm an ONLY CHILD. My father was a cowboy, and he really loved me very much, but I think he wanted a son occasionally."

  • Posted By: Mimi13 @ 08/19/2008 12:37:11 AM

    Comment: McCain cheated (again) at Saddleback.
    Warren lied about "The cone of silence" AND about giving out questions.
    McCain and Warren: Two dishonorable snake oil salesmen.

    Just two more reasons Christians are voting for Obama! www.

    I thought this post from uuforyou deserved repeating. "Rev." Warren LIED about the "cone of silence." John McCain repeated the LIE. There is simply not another term for what transpired. I am so sick of self-rightous hypocrites filled with religiousity thinking they know so much about how the rest of us should live that the ordinary rules of civilized human conduct do not apply to them. This was my first encounter with "Rev." Warren and his puffed-up church -- and it will surely be my last.

    • Posted By: Davole @ 08/19/2008 1:58:42 AM

      Comment: Mimi13 -

      What factual evidence do you have to support your claim that McCain cheated at Saddleback, and that Rev. Warren lied about the "cone of silence"?

      • Posted By: Zombiehero @ 08/19/2008 1:11:25 PM

        Comment: The Obama campaign said so so it must be true right? ha ha They are just upset because Obama came off aloof and didn't do well at the forum.

  • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/18/2008 10:58:46 PM

    Comment: Rezko is in Prison, Obama was Never Charged in this Case and You Yahoos Continue to Chirp about NOTHING, as though this Case is (White Water) or the (Keating 10) SORRY, Obama is Not Involved in the Rezko case...

    In Those 2 cases, Both the Clinton's & McCain got off Scott Free !!

    Rezko's Wife gave the obama's a Sweet Deal for a House and it was Not illegal...I'm So Sorry...

    Wait a Minute, i'm very Glad to Dissapoint You yahoo Obama Haters.

    Like you would would Turn Down a Sweet Home Purchase....Yeah Right...

    It was Legal and thats that !!!

    • Posted By: chindognyc @ 08/19/2008 12:18:11 AM

      Comment: Good point Omaar, and don't forget that Rezko also donated money to Bill Clinton's library.

      • Posted By: Zombiehero @ 08/19/2008 1:14:09 PM

        Comment: You kept on calling Bill Clinton a lier and a cheat but now you want to use him as defense?
        Clinton's Library never ran a campaign on "new politics" and "no lobbyist" money....Obama did and he accepted tainted money from Resko....kept denying he ever did, and every time new records came out showing he took more than he said...he had to give more money to charity. Just admits that Obama never should have taken that money and never should have gone through the land deal with Rezko and move on.

    • Posted By: Shadoe01 @ 08/18/2008 11:39:24 PM

      Comment: You need to wake up and smell the truth. Obama said he did not know Rezco, but Rezco owned the property next to him and sold him a piece of it. As for them giving him a good deal who do you think you are kidding? Obama is no different than any of the other, he may be even worse as he listed to Wright for twenty years and let his children listen to the racist hate. And just for good measure why don't you send Obama to live in those fantastic apartments he raves about building to help the "poor". They were substandard when they were built and more than half of them are so unsafe at this point that they are going to have to be torn down. Yeah, he is Mr. Wonderful!

  • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/18/2008 10:52:43 PM

    Comment: Reality: Saddleback Will Not Change Peoples Minds, when their Minds are Made up and don't Forget the Demographics Below.....

    1. Obama Still Leads in the Polls


    2. John McCain has NEVER LEAD in the Polls.

    3. Polls don't Matter

    4. Polls are Deceptive

    5. Early Voting in Some States Favors Obama

    6. Most People have made up their MINDS...Sorry

    7. Freedom of Religion, Agnostics, Atheist and People Indifferent Towards Religions, will not be MOVED by Saddleback...Sorry

    Note: Newly Sworn In Americans from 10 Years back to the Most Present, will Overwhelmingly Vote for Obama. Afro Americans, Hispanic & Asian Americans will Overwhelmingly Vote for Obama.

    Bi-Racial Americans ages 18 & Upwards will Vote for Obama.

    Young White America 18-45, Male and Female will Vote for Obama in Large Numbers. The Highly Educated and Poor America, that Spans all Races.

    Independent Voters will Overwhelmingly Vote for Obama. All Single Mothers in America, Regardless of Race.

    Parents of Bi-Racial Children will Vote for Obama and Large Military and Americans Abroad will Vote for Obama.

    Young Independent & Moderate Republicans will Vote for Obama and the Gay American Vote as well.

    American Females Make Up the Majority Of America and Most will Vote for Obama. The Pro-Choice Female Vote , Roe Vs. Wade, Pro-Choice an "A Woman's Right to Choose" Plays a Big Factor, Obama will get that Vote, EASILY.

    American Females & Parents Against the War, will Easily Vote for Obama.

    Most of these People have made up their Minds, Already and No saddleback Church will change that. Keep this in Mind, also Obama Garnered (18 Milion Votes Too) and Most of Clinton's Voters are going