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INTERNATIONAL

A New Ice Age?

The West's weak response to Russian aggression is triggering concerns about a new cold war.

By Andrew Bast | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Aug 18, 2008 | Updated: 4:32  p.m. ET Aug 18, 2008

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  • Posted By: Glenno @ 10/01/2008 1:19:31 AM

    Comment: I know how we can punish the Russians for defending themselves... We can break previous agreements with them and expand NATO up to their borders, then we can bomb and dismember their friends like Serbia. We can build pipelines going around Russia. We can reduce Russian influence by not giving citizenship or voting rights to Russian minorities in the Baltics. How about breaking international law and ignoring Russia by declearing independence for Kosovo? Then we can undermine manipulate elections through "supporting the democratic process" and stage colour coded revolutions in Ukraine and Georgia and turn their friends against them. Next step we could of course undermine democracy by pushing NATO on Ukraine even though 2/3 dont want it in Ukraine. Or how about arming and training the satelite state Georgia to attack Russia and slaughter Russians citizens in their sleep? After this is done we can let our free unbias western media air videos of Czechoslovakia in 1968 and other ridiculous comparisons instead of reporting the facts. Well, as this is what we are doing to Russia when they are our "friend", we seem to have run out ways to punish them. Or maybe we should keep following Brzezinski's strategy to break Russia into 3 smaller states so they can be contained? I really hate it when Russia doesnt follow our gameplan, it is obvious that they do not share our values of democracy, peace and freedom

  • Posted By: MrLatvia @ 09/05/2008 8:46:07 PM

    Comment: What everyone seems to forget is that Russia (whether it's called The Soviet Union, the USSR, Czarist Russia or the Gulag Republics of PooTinstan) IS and always has been a Terrorist Nation - in the 20th century it was the leading Terrorist State on the planet... remember?
    As I've said all along, Bush attacked the wrong area of the world with Weapons of Mass Destruction - duh - look who's sitting on a pile of them right next door to Europe. The 3 Stooges (Chairman Poo Tin, Dim Medvedev and a plaster-cast statue of Stalin) took on Georgia because it only has an army of 37,000 (compared to Russia's 1.1 million). Georgia is also a key in the Caucasus region - the roots of Europe... like the Chechens, the ancient Colchis & Iberian kingdoms influenced all the primary roots of European civilization. Anyway, Stalin's plan when he was a ???commissioner of the minorities??? way back in the 1920s was to eliminate ALL the tribes of Europe & replace them with Homo Sovieticus. Ya know what I mean? It's astounding that since the second Russian occupation of Chechnya (which Chairman Poo Tin ordered in 2000) the Russians still have been unable to eliminate (& conquer) those tough mountain peoples. Ingushetia (a captive nation inside Russia) has asked for help to "liberate" it from Russia - is that a hint to the EU or NATO? Or maybe Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania should become Nuclear Powers and ???liberate??? the oppressed minorities inside the federation? Did Russia open the doors (unknowingly?) to "liberating" its own captive nations by recognizing the so-called ???independence??? of Abhkazia & South Ossetia and creating "buffer zones" inside sovereign Georgia? Or is that a trap? No one has been allowed into the newly "independent" zones of occupation under complete Chairman Poo Tin control??? what is going on there? Are the army hordes being massed there for a total onslaught on Europe??? Paris??? Berlin??? Rome??? will the veterans of the Chechen genocide be allowed to rape, plunder & ravage the Continent? I mean, where else can they go? Iran? China? Let's see what kind of "buffer zones" the Chinese will carve out of Siberia... come on European Union or NATO even - get your act together and "liberate" Yakutia or Ingushetia or Chechnya or one of the other captive nations. Question the legitimacy of this rule by those 3 Stooges. Genocide is at your doorstep Europe - so what are ya gonna do about it?

  • Posted By: Emilda @ 08/25/2008 3:36:25 PM

    Comment: An interesting suggestion from Steve Levine. The Russians have a big weakness. Bush, Obama and McCain should keep in mind Russia's Achilles Heel as they deal with Putin and Medvedev. Levine knows this area, having covered wars in Chechnya, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Tajikistan as well as the Soviet-Afghan war: http://oilandglory.com/2008/08/russias-achilles-heel.html

    • Posted By: System7 @ 08/26/2008 10:44:19 PM

      Comment: Russia and the West are interdependent. The USA attacked Iraq, and the oil price became twice greater in
      some time. The oil price became twice greater, and it is harder for Americans to pay for their houses
      that were bought by hypothec. What will happen if you don't let Russia pump its energy to the West? I
      think the oil price will become twice greater slowly again. In such a way, the West can throw hundreds of
      Americans out of their houses. Dear Emilda, have you probably bought some stocks of oil companies and try to heat the situation to take profit? Let's build peace.

  • Posted By: System7 @ 08/25/2008 7:29:41 AM

    Comment: Let's build peace. An ice age is better than a war age.

  • Posted By: tobalito49 @ 08/22/2008 4:14:32 PM

    Comment: The author declares a "reality" "that the West lacks the capacity to contain Russia in the way that it did for nearly two decades after the end of the cold war, and the invasion of Georgia signals a new era, one in which authoritarian regimes can brazenly buck the international system." The is a "reality" for several tough reasions: because the West [Europe, the US and Canada] refuse to unite as one fist militarily and put them in Georgia now. BusyJr is a limp and lame ducky and so is NATO. Secondly, power elites like BP, Exxon-Mobil, Chevron, AMOCO, continues to control the 20th century oil profiteering regime that renders foreign policy impotent. As long as the US leaves the strategic national resource of US oil in the hands of robber barons controlling energy and environmental policy instead of nationalizing it as the strategic resource it is, this will be a message that the West has not yet understood the 21st century challenge of building a new energy economy---challenging but absolutely strategically critical. And the US public should riot in front of the truly Soviet Embassy in Washington and crush the old line thinkers in the Banking Party: the Republican.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/23/2008 2:49:31 PM

      Comment: The country-club Bushtards are a threat to life as we know it.

  • Posted By: EffYou @ 08/22/2008 1:38:25 PM

    Comment: Biggi123, you are incorrect. Russia is not showing the US any trouble, except that we were allies with Georgia for whatever reason. If people just let Georgia make their aggression, let Russia defend it's protectorates and let it's people live in peace, and if Georgia could stop trying to be the protagonists here, we'd all get along.

    Russia used to be pretty bad to the US, but this whole situation we have now doesn't even involve the US or our allies. There won't be a Cold War because Russia has no interest in attacking, only defending their protectorates.

  • Posted By: Biggi123 @ 08/22/2008 12:14:22 PM

    Comment: Russia has no provided us with what looks like a begining to a New Cold War... They have been extreme aggression towards Georgia and have it has made repeated threats to the US and It's European allies...

  • Posted By: Biggi123 @ 08/22/2008 12:09:45 PM

    Comment: Russia has now provided us with what looks like begining to a New Cold War... They are showering us and some of our European allies with threats...

  • Posted By: EffYou @ 08/22/2008 9:19:58 AM

    Comment: This is crap. Russia is not the aggressor, Georgia is. This article is making Russia out to be the bad guys. The real truth is that Georgia was the aggressors, and attacked Russian protectorate South Ossetta. There's nothing wrong with Russia protecting what they were contracted to protect, and Georgia's massively at fault for this. Check your facts twice before posting articles like this.

  • Posted By: EffYou @ 08/22/2008 9:19:07 AM

    Comment: This is crap. Russia is not the aggressor, Georgia is. This article is making Russia out to be the bad guys. The real truth is that Georgia was the aggressors, and attacked Russian protectorate South Ossetta. There's nothing wrong with Russia protecting what they were contracted to protect, and Georgia's massively at fault for this. Check your facts twice before posting articles like this.

  • Posted By: Glenno @ 08/21/2008 7:47:06 PM

    Comment: Conspiracy theory? Just do a simple google search and read that the US gave Ukraine about 100million to assist the "democratic process", all which went to the opposition. Interfering in other countries elections and buying another government is called a coup. Why has the US in the last years put so much pressure on Europe not to critisise the corrupt mafia regime of Georgia? why has US finded and trained most of the Georgian army?
    What Russia is doing now is brilliant, asserting its power in the region and saying to both Europe and Israel: We want partnership and friendship, we can either be your best friend or your worst enemy, it depends on if you will continue your crusade with the US on the encirclement, isolation and aggression against Russia.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/22/2008 9:18:12 AM

      Comment: Glenno,
      The problem is that there are monied interests that need the division to prosper. The new cold war has a far deeper economic issue, arms sales. Both Russia and the United States stand to sell significantly larger quantities of weapons ordinance and such, with a polarized world. This frankly will be better for Russia economically than the United States, but these people don't care, they'll take the increased margins and be happy.
      On the GOP side of this, Johnny MaC has really benefitted from this. It has made our Brezhnev look relevant. It has stopped the Obama campaign dead in it's tracks. Most Americans still really have no freakin idea that we are in a war of Proxies in the former Soviet Union.

  • Posted By: summer4077 @ 08/21/2008 3:40:23 PM

    Comment: Isn't Russia/Georgia the same as US/Iraq? Where do we get off casting any judgment?

  • Posted By: manoflamancha @ 08/21/2008 9:28:07 AM

    Comment: This article was one of the worst I've ever read... How can Russia be 'aggressively' 'invading' Georgia when it was Georgia who aggressively invaded Russia. It's articles like these which are poorly researched and only seek to inflame the American populace. What cause does America have with Georgia? Why is humanitarian aid being flown in by Air Force Jets and Naval ships? Why is America so quick to instigate war on Russia? (We were the ones who supplied and trained the Georgian Army prior to the invasion of Russia.)

    This writer's response to the Georgia-Russia conflict expresses the same attitude and thinking that got us in Iraq - a country we got involved with without clear cause for instigating conflict!

    This article is more nationalistic warmongering than serious journalism. Next time, don't instigate and provide a balanced approach rather than your own political opinions dressed in the charade of journalism.

  • Posted By: BrownFoxNine @ 08/21/2008 9:12:48 AM

    Comment: LOL, With Dictator Bush at the helm, I think we are looking at WW III real soon.

    RD
    www.decrypt.net.tc

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/22/2008 9:12:22 AM

      Comment: They'll do whatever they think makes them or their masters money.

  • Posted By: vicphil @ 08/21/2008 7:31:35 AM

    Comment: At this stage, BRINKMANSHIP is necessary for NATO & Russia to practice to show to their respective citizens that the interests and principles they are fighting for are honorable. As news coverage fades, BACK CHANNELING -the tested and proven solution to most crisis - will take over. The Balkan crisis is too small to start a cold war. Terrorism, energy sufficiency, food security are the most important concerns of all nations.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/21/2008 8:39:41 AM

      Comment: That's all rational, and I do not see enough rational out of either side. As for Back Channels, Ivan has been just about screaming for 4-5 years now that enough is enough. Ivan has been enraged by our moving to make him a strategic cripple and sticking Bushy missiles into him like suppositories, largely to bind his enemies to us. Back Channels only work if the idiots on our side can take a clue, get a hint, or read a tea leaf... etc. Ours blindly push ahead with agenda and let events determine course. They are stupid, Rice, Bush and the crew. Breatakingly stupid.

  • Posted By: Yelyena @ 08/21/2008 5:16:18 AM

    Comment: A fellow gorgiian girl, whose mother were in Gorgia while war proceeded gives here vision: 6 hours S.Ossetia shooted to Gorgia (with misseles also), Made greate damage, than Gorgia answered. Than Russia answered. And both sides lost much less people than we are said. (and i inclain to belive that number of lost is indeed less). But building damage is great.
    Now we have to listen S. Ossetia opinion.

  • Posted By: Anny @ 08/21/2008 2:26:54 AM

    Comment: oh, don't lie, please. all more or less educated people understand that it wasn't russian agression. and it' none of your bussiness, america. look what u did to Iraq. we're not gonna do the same. I thought neewsweek would tell the whole truth about georgia, like russian newsweek.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/21/2008 8:53:57 AM

      Comment: Almost half of the people here in the United States I am guessing have no idea whatsoever about any of this. They also have been fed a diet of slant and stale. The way MSM works is anything that they can get 2 people to say, goes on the air. Georgia had government people to brief the press, staged events like Saakashvili running from imaginary Russian planes, etc. CNNand Fox went hard fascist with their coverage and ate the government line completely. Fox because it is their job as the GOP house organ, and CNN for ratings. After all, even the CNN crew knows a great story, and how to keep the truth from messing it up.
      From an American who wished for better, I am sorry. I wish my government had the interests of humankind in their hearts. They do not. They walk without God and pretend to be pious. It makes good business sense to them.

    • Posted By: Yelyena @ 08/21/2008 4:45:05 AM

      Comment: Anny, there are different opinions in America also. May be not too many but nevetheless.
      BBC writes about Gorgia starting. And also writes of gorgian's opinion that U.Ossetia started: gorgia just tired of ossetia's attacs. :)
      However let blame no gorgian people: i suppose they tired of wars indeed.

  • Posted By: Anny @ 08/21/2008 2:21:36 AM

    Comment: oh, don't lie, please. all more or less educated people understand that it wasn't russian agression. and it' none of your bussiness, america. look what u did to Iraq. we're not gonna do the same. I thought neewsweek would tell the whole truth about georgia, like russian newsweek.

  • Posted By: skeptikos @ 08/21/2008 12:16:21 AM

    Comment: In this article it has been stressed again and again that Russia has mad the aggresson. So far all the reports had been that it was Georgia made the first step to occuppy South Ossetia which invited Russian agression. Either it must have been a miscalculation on the part of Georgia that US and West will come to its rescue or it also could have been to bait Russia to make an agression and make it a villain in the eyes of the whole world. It will pave the way for US for landing its marines or whatever armed forces and stay put in Gergia to protect it from Russia. That is to have a permanent base at the under belly of Russia.
    The alacrity with which the US/Poland missile shield agreement was signed is surely to surround Russia and start the second Cold War. If the missile shield was to deterr Iran it could have been placed in Germany a Nato country with the same effect. Putting it in Poland is just to taunt Russia. If someone fights for oil it can be understood. It is the question of survival. Stoking up the cold war has no meaning.

  • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:23:49 PM

    Comment: Oh the fossils got their cold war for McCain. After needing Leibermann to remind him repeatedly about the players on the field in Iraq, they have fed old McStupid a list of enemies he remembers. McStupid even has a Georgian lobbyist whispering in his ear.
    You Republicans have no limit on your filth, and the Democrats no limit on their timidity in challenging it.

  • Posted By: techresmgt @ 08/20/2008 7:56:13 PM

    Comment: Facing another cold war? Get real, it's a done deal. A done, freaking, deal.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:47:21 PM

      Comment: It began after 2004 with the Dioxin job on Yuvschenko, we just chose to ignore that and other things. We got past Old Ivan's comfort zone at the Ukraine. Georgia really blew his top. Redneck 'screw-em' foreign policy only works so long. Ivan started bomber patrols again a few months ago, etc. There have been diplomats dismissed from Moscow on tit-for tats with Britain I believe... yes simmer to low boil for a long while, and noone tried to mitigate any of that.
      Condi let it fester into violence. At best, incompetent, at worst by design.

  • Posted By: nolovlost @ 08/20/2008 6:09:01 PM

    Comment: This is just what the doctor ordered for McBush...didn't someone say we needed another war for McBush to win...If the media would report more and investigate more on what McBush and his hengemen did in Georgia to make them believe we would back them ...The presidency will be owned by the Republican Party their will be no more President it will become a corporation run by CROOKS....

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/22/2008 9:11:22 AM

      Comment: The media needs a race. The GOP knows this. They know they can just about do as they please with immunity and pardons awaiting. Jonny Macmelanoma is going to hand off the presidency to the appointed heir and do as the Shrub family mafia dictate. Most media monkeys are still competing with the Ailes mindset at Fox, as a business model, and not with the charge they have as journalists with a free press to shine light on the dark places.

  • Posted By: migumore @ 08/20/2008 5:22:31 PM

    Comment: Just unleash Germany, maybe Russia will think twice then.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:55:14 PM

      Comment: We did unleash Germany. They run from fire all over Afghanistan. Ivan knows this, he has been watching. Ivan has watched NATO tangle in his backyard since 9/11, and even helped us out. Ivan obviously knows how much of that Germany there is in Germany.

  • Posted By: Daekler @ 08/20/2008 2:23:15 PM

    Comment: Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I'm sure the news regarding the U.S.-Russian stand-off is just great news to the vast "Inductrial Defense Complex"...

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/21/2008 9:10:19 AM

      Comment: It's not a conspiray there, but a biproduct. The conspiracy is in the control of the worlds oil, I believe. The strategic goal is economic control of energy assets. I am going to laugh if Russia spanks those pipelines then follows by denominating all energy trades in Russia in Euros. That will collapse the current market schema and end US hegemony, which can only operate with the U.S. dollar control.

  • Posted By: Texas-conservative @ 08/20/2008 1:19:22 PM

    Comment: Here's some recent histy in Georgia, for those who are interested.

    It's just wikipedia, but this is pretty accurate from what I've been able to tell from further research. The figures vary, but the ones cited here are a good average from the other estimates I have seen.

    On April 9, 1991, shortly before the collapse of the USSR, Georgia declared independence. On May 26, 1991, Zviad Gamsakhurdia was elected as a first President of independent Georgia. However, he was soon deposed in a bloody coup d'état, from December 22, 1991 to January 6, 1992. The coup was instigated by part of the National Guards and a paramilitary organization called "Mkhedrioni". The country became embroiled in a bitter civil war which lasted almost until 1995. Eduard Shevardnadze returned to Georgia in 1992 and joined the leaders of the coup ??? Kitovani and Ioseliani ??? to head a triumvirate called the "State Council".

    In 1995, Shevardnadze was officially elected as a president of Georgia. At the same time, two regions of Georgia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, quickly became embroiled in disputes with local separatists that led to widespread inter-ethnic violence and wars. Supported by Russia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia achieved de facto independence from Georgia. More than 250,000 Georgians were ethnically cleansed from Abkhazia by Abkhaz separatists and North Caucasians volunteers (including Chechens) in 1992-1993. More than 25,000 Georgians were expelled from Tskhinvali as well, and many Ossetian families were forced to abandon their homes in the Borjomi region and move to Russia.

    Of course, this is occurring 70 years after Stalin's red army took power and overthrew the Georgian government in the early 20th century.
    Basically, the two regions want independence from Georgia, and Russia supports their separatist goals. That's like if California wanted independence from the US and Mexico supported the separatists. Wouldn't the US attempt to defeat the separatists in order to retain our sovereignty?

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:42:08 PM

      Comment: The relevant recent history is that Georgia shot up an Apartment Block with MLRS and killed people to start a war. They lost that war too. Repeatedly losing things in wars is not a smart way to pursue territorial integrity.
      I wish Texas would ask for Independence from the United States. We would not fight you. Your bumper sticker slogan-world "Texas, it's like a whole other country" could have more than it's ring of truth.

      • Posted By: Texas-conservative @ 08/21/2008 11:43:15 AM

        Comment: You certainly are hostile, Braes. My comments have basically been saying that we shouldn't all just assume America is to blame for this conflict between Geirgia and Russia. They each have their own interests in that region that don't take into account what America's strategic goals are.

        Furthermore, suggesting that Texas ask for independence shows your immaturity. Last I checked, Texans are Americans. You don't like Texas because we are not predominantly liberal or something? Or because we are intelligent and can observe world events without blaming Bush/Chaney/Condi.
        I'll be the first to admit they have made their share of mistakes, but sheesh, they aren't God, so they don't have a hand in every single thing. Other countries act in their own self-interest, whether successfully or unseccuessfully, right or wrong, just like we do.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 08/22/2008 9:06:34 AM

          Comment: No you Texan, I am from the American South, and Hate Texas, Texans and generally Bush Republicans. People like you making excuses for these criminals should go with them to their reward. People with your Neo Con mindset have destroyed our reputation, emptied our treasury, bled our military white, and left a legacy of debt, dissolution, and death.

  • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/20/2008 12:57:06 PM

    Comment: RUSSIA IS BEHIND ON MILITARY TECHNOLOLGY...HA !!!

    RUSSIA IS LAUGHING AT US...WE'RE THE ONES WITH ONGOING WARS IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ, WITH ALL OUR MODERN MILITARY TECHNOLOGY, WHY ARE WE STILL THERE AND THE CARNAGE CONTINUES..HUH

    RUSSIA COUL'VE FED US FILM OF THEIR DEFEAT IN AFGHANISTAN, TO LEARN A VALUABLE LESSON. WITH ALL OUR MILITARY, AN CUTTING EDGE TECHNOLOGY, WHY ARE WE NOT FIGHTING IN RUSSIA'S BACKYARD AND STEAMROLLING THEM INTO DEFEAT OR WHY HAV'NT WE BEATEN THESE (2) BACKWARD COUNTRIES IRAQ & AGHANISTAN INTO SUBMISSION IN LESS THAN A YEAR..HUH

    5 YEARS, 5 YEARS AND WE HAVE THE LARGE NUMBERS, THE VERY BEST TRAINED, THE BEST EQUIPMENT, THE BEST TECHNOLOGY AND THE THE SUPERIOR NUMBERS.

    WE KNOW BETTER....RUSSIA HAS ONE OF THE LARGEST OF STOCKPILE MISSILES IN THE WORLD.

    YOU SIDELINE CHEERLEADING SISSY'S KEEP BELIEVING THOSE STAR WARS MOVIES, INDEPENDENCE DAY MOVIE WITH WILL SMITH AND JEFF GOLDBLUM...

    THE REST OF US, KNOW BETTER.

    TECHNOLGY, LARGE MILITARY NUMBERS IN BOTH IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN AND THEY STILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT BACK AND THEY STILL WON'T RUN FOR (5 YRS.)

    OH YEAH, WE'RE SUPERIOR TO THOSE 2 COUNTRIES...PUH-LEASE !!!

    SPARE ME AND THE FREE WORLD, YOUR BLIND, NAIEVE AND NARROW MINDED OPINIONS ON HOW SOPHISTICATED AND ADVANCED OUR MILITARY IS, TO THE FREE WORLD.

    NOW THROW IN CHINA, AFTER THE OLYMPICS, WE'LL HERE FROM HU JIN TAO, WHO CONFERRING WITH PUTIN AND MEDVEDEV, DAILY.

    REMEBER LAST YEAR'S CHINA NAD RUSSIAN JOINT MILITART EXCERCISES..HUH

    CHINA WILL SOUND OFF ON THIS CONFLICT, AFTER THE OLYMPICS, SOON AFTER, I WILL ASSURE YOU AND IT WILL NOT FAVOR US, AT ALL.

    JUST THINK, RUSSIA & CHINA AGAINST THE USA..

    THE NUCLEAR MIGHT, ECONOMIC MIGHT AND MILITARY MIGHT.

    THANK THE 5 PAST PRESIDENTS, INCLUDING BBUSH JR. FOR GIVING CHINA UNLIMITED ACCESS TO CLASSIFIED INFORMATION AND MASSIVE ECONOMIC STIMULATION. RUSSIA SUPPLIES THE WORLD WITH GAS AND OIL AS WELL, WITH AMERICA BEING A RECEPIENT OF RUSSIA'S NATURAL RESOURCES.

    • Posted By: migumore @ 08/20/2008 5:31:11 PM

      Comment: The reason we are still there is because our military is fighting with both its hands tied behind its back. When there is an insurgency while you as the liberator cannot use the same methods as the insurgents, you should lower play somewhat on par with them. Meaning some stupid international and domestic laws have to be overlooked. The laws which bind our military to its current predicament where meant to be used in a conflict where both sides played according to the rules.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:50:35 PM

        Comment: The reason we are still there is some feel we need to fix what we broke. (Colin Powell theorem, which is reasonable) We are not there because anyone had their hands tied behind their back. We have slaughtered more Arab with fewer troops over a wider battlespace than any imagined... brillaintly.
        What we have not done is any of the smart diplomatic things that prevent wars or hasten peace. Eventually you have to stop killing people and start talking.

  • Posted By: cabirdman533 @ 08/20/2008 10:47:41 AM

    Comment: yelyena i spent time in the military during the cold war.times during which the soviet union would use force first then reason later. The russia of now had no bussiness in geogia teritory to start with If you want the hate to stop Russia must allow all the states they took with force to be truly free to govern themselves and to make thier own mistakes without fear of invasion which has now been proved to be a real concern America has a great interest in aiding its allies military and otherwise if russia continues to push there will be no choice but to wage a war that an outdated militry force no matter the numbers on paper can win since it will be air and sea primarily. Rapid withdrawl and a statement that we will allow our neighbors to self govern would keep the peace =and allow the world to grow..

  • Posted By: jakes777 @ 08/20/2008 6:37:25 AM

    Comment: I dont think any country would stand back if they saw there people been attacked whilst they are sleeping. To be honest I think 99% of people know the truth behind this war! and to scared to admit that Russia stood by its people and did what it was saposed to do. To me this is sick as the people behind this know who they are but luckely the man above knows the truth and will stick by Russia for saving its people.

    • Posted By: cabirdman533 @ 08/20/2008 10:52:07 AM

      Comment: have you forgotten geogia did not invade russia they attacked a part of thier own country? remember the civil war a war among americans? No country had the right then to invade us to make thier own statement.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 11:19:49 AM

        Comment: Georgia lost them both and sued for peace in the 90's. Losing multiple wars hardly creates a better claim under international law. I think you can kiss off Abkhazia and S Ossetia now, I doubt Sarkosy is going to go Napoleonic with the European negotiations, or listen to Shrub or Condi. France remembers going deep into Russia. Only a stupid idiot would commit to relieve a country that opened a war slaughtering civilians.

  • Posted By: Yelyena @ 08/20/2008 3:37:25 AM

    Comment: Guys, i've just spoken to gorgian girl. She is Russia citizen now.We are collegs. She said there was still shooting in Gorgia. She said she got info rigth from Gorgia. She said Gorgia had suffered much. And still is suffering.

    • Posted By: ljguard @ 08/21/2008 2:42:52 PM

      Comment: I think all of you are missing the real point here. The United States is no longer the SUPER POWER it once was. We have lost so much respect from the entire world that the few friendly nations we can count on are less than the fingers on one hand. Even our brother's to the north think we have lost our minds

  • Posted By: Glenno @ 08/20/2008 12:27:08 AM

    Comment: The Bush administration, with the full support of the U.S. Congress, armed, trained and largely financed the Georgian military. It did this although the dangers of war involving these forces were obvious and after the Georgian government had told its own people that these forces were intended for the recovery of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. This makes U.S. responsible for genocide and should face a international court.

  • Posted By: thehappyamerican @ 08/19/2008 10:31:15 PM

    Comment: Americans are more concerned about the US economy and our own boarder security than the plight of Leningrad! During Cod Wart I americans conserns were the price of fuel, un-employment, and education... same as it will be threw Cold War II. Not Leningrad!
    You could move to Leningrad! The shortage of toilet plungers and TP is not as bad these days,since Cold War I ended for Russians!

  • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/19/2008 10:00:35 PM

    Comment: Who Started Cold War II ?

    http://antiwar.com/pat/index_pat.html

    John McCain's War Experience, via the Russia-Georgia SetUp, Did Not Work..At All and Neither will John McCain's attempt at the Presidency of the USA.

    by Patrick J. Buchanan

    The American people should be eternally grateful to Old Europe for having spiked the Bush-McCain plan to bring Georgia into NATO.

    Had Georgia been in NATO when Mikheil Saakashvili invaded South Ossetia, we would be eyeball to eyeball with Russia, facing war in the Caucasus, where Moscow's superiority is as great as U.S. superiority in the Caribbean during the Cuban missile crisis.

    If the Russia-Georgia war proves nothing else, it is the insanity of giving erratic hotheads in volatile nations the power to drag the United States into war.

    From Harry Truman to Ronald Reagan, as Defense Secretary Robert Gates said, U.S. presidents have sought to avoid shooting wars with Russia, even when the Bear was at its most beastly.

    Truman refused to use force to break Stalin's Berlin blockade. Ike refused to intervene when the Butcher of Budapest drowned the Hungarian Revolution in blood. LBJ sat impotent as Leonid Brezhnev's tanks crushed the Prague Spring. Jimmy Carter's response to Brezhnev's invasion of Afghanistan was to boycott the Moscow Olympics. When Brezhnev ordered his Warsaw satraps to crush Solidarity and shot down a South Korean airliner killing scores of U.S. citizens, including a congressman, Reagan did â?????? nothing.

    These presidents were not cowards. They simply would not go to war when no vital U.S. interest was at risk to justify a war. Yet, had George W. Bush prevailed and were Georgia in NATO, U.S. Marines could be fighting Russian troops over whose flag should fly over a province of 70,000 South Ossetians who prefer Russians to Georgians.

    The arrogant folly of the architects of U.S. post-Cold War policy is today on display. By bringing three ex-Soviet republics into NATO, we have moved the U.S. red line for war from the Elbe almost to within artillery range of the old Leningrad.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:08:11 AM

      Comment: Look, I am an American and Career Military guy. Bush/Cheney/Condi completely blew this, and it is our generations bay-of-pigs. Bush needed the thinnest of international to the troops in Iraq and got Georgians to do it for him. For a battalion of good troops, Bush created in the minds of these people an entitlement to full U.S. protection. We also have run 3 pipelines through this country to get revenue from under Russia.
      For almost two decades since the fall of the wall, we have unilaterally pursued policies against Russia. Paybacks are hard. They had people freezing in the winter, while we were bombing their Serb cousins. They went through a Great Depresion during Yeltsin's stupor. We had it easy. Americans have not faced such here in ages.
      This has been a horrible Neo-Con mess up. What has been sad was watching the press coddle this idito Saakashvili, who tried his damn best to get WWIII started attacking not just S. Ossetia, but Sochi. Most Americans have no idea about Sochi.
      Russia has a mediocre PR machine, did very poorly in the war compared to modern professional forces (Ivan still runs a conscript force) and did not have an integrated battleplan. You wasted Air assets and showed no concept of independent operational flexibility, Airmindedness, etc. That is somewhat excused in that you were sneak attacked, by a Force you should have had Generals wargaming for.

  • Posted By: thehappyamerican @ 08/19/2008 9:54:45 PM

    Comment: It's strange that Russia is allowing Putin to try to unify Russia the old communist way and risk Cold War II, after the bitter lesson Russia learned about Cold War I (all you get is a bunch of client states which are broke and ran by despotic revolutionarys and radicals!).
    Now the incursion did excite American radicals around the country to wage the AMERICANS SUCK FIRST campaign banner, like a toilet plunger festooned with toilet paper streamers and a hearty "YESWECAN!"
    But for Russia the demonstration will be over soon and it be faced with not only having it's own internal problems with islamo-terrorists but also the lose of western sypathy and possible assistance with that problem. Add to that a Cold War and all that was about.
    And Russia be on the wrong side of history, again!

    • Posted By: Yelyena @ 08/20/2008 9:51:52 AM

      Comment: Dear Thehappyamerican, compleetly agree: we do not need CW II.
      1. How do you think did Gorgia know the fire would be answered? It seems more possible that Knew and supposed it wouldn't stay without answer as it usualy happens in history (if we keep in mind that territory was a "hot point" and russian peasekeepers were dwelling there and our relations was 'hot") . Did little and uprotected Giorgia (in fact by it's own might at the face of more strong Russia) dare firing UNLESS it was sure about protection and approve of somebody more powerful ? And Who that Protector was? And whose support Saakashvili is reseving now regardles his startin firing?
      2. All the news shouted " Russia invaded Gorgia!" And somehow just couple days later rare lines in newspapers mentioned muttering that Gorgia also had done something. How did it happen that firing stayed unnoticed? I compleetly sure that governores was not so innosantly anaware of what was goin on. Modern technic, sattelites, numerous FSB, FBS and so on on on... But governores could reveal NO infomation that was not to be revealed for majority of population. Not to be revealed in order ...? It is not population's matter in order why.
      Conclusions: And Russia'd done what was anticipated it would do. And i personally feel somebody very glad he has more and more reason to cry - DESTROY THEM! BEARS! BEARS!
      Gays, we do not want Cold War, but WHY DO YOU HATE US? WHYYYYYY???!!!!

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:28:51 AM

        Comment: Yelyena,
        The Neo Conservative people need enemies and hatred to keep people patriotic and scared. Georgia shot first. That is just starting to sink into some very thick skulls. By starting this now with Russia, Bush got his missile deal with Poland, Bush made Medvedev look weak as Putin came home to save the day, and for most of the war, people could tell you exactly when Mark Phelps would swim again, but not what was happening in a place called Georgia, that is not an old Confederate State. (There are probably people crawling all over the woods down there looking for rooskies.)
        These are power-pigs who did these things. Oil people. People who lie, cheat and steal in the name of 4th quarter profits.
        Few of them have any military experience. The business people who do have Military experience, like the Fed Ex CEO, know that the current DoD budget is almost half-spent guarding oil. Oil. Since 1991, there has been one defining strategic objective: economic and military dominance of a filthy, toxic, nasty substance we are killing our world with.
        Old happy likes things as they are, and doesn't care about consequences, costs, blood, treasure, image, prestige, and other issues that dominate mature discussions. Happy just wants to wave the flag or bloody shirt and wallow in hate. It's easy.

        • Posted By: Texas-conservative @ 08/20/2008 12:46:06 PM

          Comment: I think my reply got cut off when I tried to copy/paste...

          Your statement:
          "These are power-pigs who did these things. Oil people. People who lie, cheat and steal in the name of 4th quarter profits"
          and saying that a person "doesn't care about consequences, costs, blood, treasure" and wants to wave a bloody shirt"

          Isn't that hate/fear mongering?

          The fact is, the modern world does require oil. Oil is used in the powerplant that is keeping your comuter running. It is a neccessary resource. I'll agree that we need to transition to renwable energy sources, but demonizing an industry that produces/delivers a product that is crucial to our (and most every other country's) way of life just because the news or marxist politicians say it is so is simply rediculous.

          • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:18:18 PM

            Comment: No marxist taught me to recognize a fascist.

  • Posted By: gopsux.com @ 08/19/2008 9:40:42 PM

    Comment: AFter the fall of the iron curtain in the early 90's the neo-cons go to Russian and destroy their economy with their greasy fingered economics. When their economic theories fail they run away without taking any of the responsibility. Then they set their sights on Iraq and completely destroy that country for the next 50 years. when it doesn't work they run away leaving the US taxpayer to foot the bill and let the pentagon clean up their mess. Now they are trying to get their greasy fingers in Georgia and Iran. Once again they run away like they always have since the Reagan era when things don't work out.

    I think it's fair to say the neo-cons are the world's worst enemy ,and it's time we hold them for high crimes and treason.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/22/2008 9:31:57 AM

      Comment: Frankly now, I want re-education camps for people with W stickers on their SUV's. Maybe we can host it at GITMO for them.

  • Posted By: lueman @ 08/19/2008 8:52:01 PM

    Comment: This is all nice and dandy, but it's not 1962 we are very dependent on oil and the Russians could easily throw us into bankruptcy simply by cutting off a few oil pipelines. I hope Obama is president then maybe we might not try to drive our tanks into Moscow. Georgia is an irritant to Russia we would do well to let Russia do what it wants there - just like they did nothing when we invaded Iraq.

  • Posted By: Big_House @ 08/19/2008 8:35:59 PM

    Comment: Response to Coventry-
    Where is the heck did you come with your analysis, from Rush Limpbaugh?

    Dude, you are crazy if you think the Russians are behind the U.S. in the quality of armaments! In fact, the Russians are second in sales to the U.S. of advanced technology for armaments. Russia has advanced cruise missiles and only needs to get within 200 miles of the target.

    Russia is sending a fleet to Venezuela for a port call and pondering placing TU-95 Bearcat and TU-160 nuke bombers on the Island of Cuba! These bombers fly twice as fast as the B-52 and B1B???s. This would be fitting since the ???NATOUS??? has been intent on BMD in Poland and Czech Republic???

    The Russians can match the U.S. or take simple counter measures in a heads up fight. Unless the U.S. decides to call in all of it???s bought friends under the umbrella of ???NATOUS???!

    You go ahead and suit up if you want war with Russia or take a chance and sit in your living room watching the Russians fire a missile that, you read was in disarray!

    -DJ??? Los Angeles???



  • Posted By: valadezaj @ 08/19/2008 7:48:13 PM

    Comment: All the Russians need to do is sit back and wait until Obama becomes president. Then the US will surrender without firing a shot. Everyone better start brushing up on your Russian. :)

    • Posted By: sergem @ 08/19/2008 9:35:53 PM

      Comment: We have to admit that Russia is behind the US and NATO technologically. Although they have some advanced military hardware, Russia's army relies more on manpower than on technology. From Russian sources (http://www.izvestia.ru/armia2/article3119626/) - they complain that it was not an easy task to fight Georgia because:
      tanks didn't have night vision equipment;
      Georgia had recognizance drones (Israeli made) and Russia didn't;
      Russian GPS system (deployment started in late 1980's) didn't work.
      Russia has limited capabilities to fight conventional war but it doesn't really matter as long as they have WMD.

      • Posted By: Omaar @ 08/20/2008 12:42:52 PM

        Comment: BEHIND ON MILITARY TECHNOLOLGY...HA !!!

        RUSSIA IS LAUGHING AT US...WE'RE THE ONES WITH ONGOING WARS IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ, WITH ALL OUR MODERN MILITARY TECHNOLOGY, WHY ARE WE STILL THERE AND THE CARNAGE CONTINUES..HUH

        RUSSIA COUL'VE FED US FILM OF THEIR DEFEAT IN AFGHANISTAN, WITH ALL OUR MILITARY, AN CUTTING EDGE TECHNOLOGY, WHY ARE WE NOT FIGHTING IN RUSSIA'S BACKYARD AND STEAMROLLING THEM INTO DEFEAT..HUH

        WE KNOW BETTER....RUSSIA HAS ONE OF THE LARGESTOF STOCKPILE MISSILES IN THE WORLD.

        YOU SIDELINE CHEERLEADING SISSY'S KEEP BELIEVING THOSE STAR WARS MOVIES, INDEPENDENT DAY WITH WILL SMITH AND JEFF GOLDBLUM...

        THE REST OF US, KNOW BETTER.

        TECHNOLGY, LARGE MILITARY NUMBERS IN BOTH IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN AND THEY STILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT BACK AND THEY STILL WON'T RUN FOR (5 YRS.)

        OH YEAH, WE'RE SUPERIOR TO THOSE 2 COUNTRIES...PUH-LEASE !!!

        SPARE ME AND THE FREE WORLD, YOUR BLIND, NAIEVE AND NARROW MINDED OPINIONS ON HOW SOPHISTICATED AND ADVANCED OUR MILITARY IS, TO THE FREE WORLD.

        NOW THROW IN CHINA, AFTER THE OLYMPICS, WE'LL HERE FROM HU JIN TAO, WHO CONFERRING WITH PUTIN AND MEDVEDEV, DAILY.

        • Posted By: Akmatic @ 08/20/2008 1:15:08 PM

          Comment: Because Iraq and Afghanistan are traditional wars or anything even remotely similar to a European theater of war between large standing armies?


      • Posted By: Akmatic @ 08/20/2008 8:59:12 AM

        Comment: The Russians rolled into Georgia with the same Garbage equipment they were using when they went into Afghanistan so many years ago. Attacking small sovereign countries with overwhelming numbers is the only thing it's really good for due to their equipment being outdated and their soldiers being undisciplined and significantly under trained compared to American forces.

        They know they can't engage NATO or the US troops based in Germany in a heads up ground war b/c they would be crushed. From here on out, all you'll be seeing is empty nuclear threats b/c their army is all bark and no bite against a true modern army.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 08/22/2008 9:30:45 AM

          Comment: Ivan has mass. Ivan has depth. Ivan has 30,000,000 men fit for National Service. Ivan does not have a modern military, battlefield thinkers, a credible Air component, Air Staff, Logistics mastery, theories of manouver, etc.
          Ivan does High-diddle-diddle, run up the middle. He can easily eat Poland, or the Baltic states, on a day or time of his choosing. The Ukraine can be served up hot or cold. Ivan also has one heck of a lot of cheap good missiles. If he sticks them in our backyard, like in Venezuela, Cuba or Nicaragua... our Polish missile site will seem a poor trade for Houston, Little Rock, Shreveport, Tampa, or any other place Ivan drops a nuke on.
          Bush is an imbecile and does not know how much whoop-(expletive) he has opened up. I doubt he really cares either.

  • Posted By: quique11000 @ 08/19/2008 7:22:38 PM

    Comment: The cold war never ended for Bush and the neocons. If the cold war had ended there woul have been no expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe and then into the Caucussus, followed by an ABM system in Poland, Checkz Republic and plans to put one in Georgia. Madness!
    The West, led by the US is the aggressor. They bombed Yugoeslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan. The US has invadedinvaded Panama, grenada and all the above mentioned countries.

    The West ,

  • Posted By: irwind @ 08/19/2008 6:24:24 PM

    Comment: The U.S. ane its EU cronies, carries minimal weight in the world. The U.S. will bring the whole world to ruination with its drive to global dominance. The French learned the sorry proce today in Afghssnistan for their blind allegiance to the U.S. Just so many times you can poke the bear with encroachments in its sphere of influence. What would happen if Russia wanted to put missiles in Mexico. One day the American's will see the sorry truth, that there's a heavy price for empire.

    • Posted By: VirginiaMac @ 08/19/2008 7:37:06 PM

      Comment: Please support your assertions with something more than hyperbole. Your opening line ???The U.S. ane (sic) its EU cronies, carries minimal weight in the world??? is about the most deluded comment that could have possibly been made! What kind of bizarro world do you live in? America???s interests have certainly been challenged in the Georgia crisis, but Russia acting in Russian interests should not be a surprise, and as Russia reasserts herself as a Great Power, I expect there will be plenty more areas of conflict!

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 11:40:48 AM

        Comment: The challenge is that the stupid idiot we left guarding 3 pipelines, Saakashvili, got suckered into a shooting war he could not win. What an unstable idiot. He risked all of the oil to get a war he couldn't win with an enemy that is always right next door and will be there forever. Instead of doubling-down on stupid, or claiming we are all now Georgians to appease a campaign lobbyist, maybe we should not have let this happen. You know he had to ask. Since Shrub43 was out of town, and Condi was off vacationing, what did Cheney say when he got the call from Saak? Go on ahead and get the project started? Start the October-suprise early?
        Republicans have run the National Security boogieman at the Democrats since 1960, and since they have cried wolf and terror coded us into no longer believing them at all on their conflated oil-islamophobia wars, they needed the Russian boogieman now more than ever. A GOP big-wig stated McCain would win with a war, has Georgia's registered loobyist writing his foreign policy... just too much circumstance to be circumstantial. The GOP thrives on fear, and has always appealed to baser elements of discourse. Atwater/Rove/Bush family. Going back to granddaddy and the "Businessmens Plot" against FDR, trading with the German enemy, etc... they have never missed an opportunity to do the families business with the means of the state, or against them.
        (And to think these sort had the audacity with such a pedigree of treason, to have impeached Clinton over folly.)

        • Posted By: Texas-conservative @ 08/20/2008 1:05:04 PM

          Comment: Saakashvili was elected president by a majority of his fellow Georgian citizens during the rose revolution where the citizens decided they wanted Georgia to be free of Russia's influence/domination...like many other former soviet countries have done after having been brutally conquerrred by Stalin/Lenin and the Soviet empire.

          • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:36:17 PM

            Comment: Oh like elections make a Democracy, or an ally. Like elections are clean and fair, and an antibiotic for all social ills. 1. I don't trust the color revolutions to have been anything other than CIA projects. 2. I don't expect shills for administration policy to get the damger of jerking around in Ivan's backyard, after all, you usually send others kids off to die.
            Mr Elected started a war. If you want to go save Mr. Elected you can book a Lufthansa flight and get connections to Tblisi. Ivan will eat you. Ivan is going to eat Saakashvili. Condi will whimper in the U.N. about Russian agression.
            Maybe if she had been worth a crap she could have acted to head off any of the failures that have beset this administration. Like the project here in Georgia. It sure looks like a stage managed event for your boy Johnny MaC.
            As for the Bush family on the whole, scum. Since you can find Wiki, look up Business Plot. It runs in their blood.

            • Posted By: Texas-conservative @ 08/21/2008 12:25:32 PM

              Comment: I looked Business Plot up and it says a BBC documentary says Prescott may have been involved.
              I see you are very much into conspiracy theories.
              1. color revolutions as CIA projects (incidentally, we do have an interest in converting cold war enemies into allies)
              2. Business Plot (the last sentence in the entire wikipedia article added the Prescott information. For all I know, you added that yourself. Your anti-bush rhetoric rather than addressing facts could certainly lead one to believe such)
              3. Georgia's recent actions were to get McCain elected (absurd)

              Do you wear a tin foil hat?

  • Posted By: Glenno @ 08/19/2008 6:24:16 PM

    Comment: You wonder what Russia is thinking? They are thinking that the cold war never ended for the Americans. America has surrounded Russia with NATO, built US army bases along their borders soon to be supported with a missile defence system that can destroy Russia. With US puppet states commiting genocide against Russia, it is obvious what the intentions are. With US on Russias borders this is the last chance to protect their borders and re-structure & increase their nuclear arsenal to be able to retaliate against US attack. I think they should build their own rocket shield on Cuba to create some balance, set up a defence alliance with China. How did Russia plan and provoke Georgia to start a massive rocket attack on the Osettian cities to slaughter 2000 civilians in their sleep. As America has decleared war on almost the whole world finding new allies should not be too hard. Europeans should support Russia, if US wants to start ww3 I hope the war and casualities are brought to their country instead of on European soil.

    • Posted By: Big_House @ 08/19/2008 9:03:16 PM

      Comment: Russia and China already has one.... The details are always hidden... India would back Russia and China as well against "NATOUS"!

      http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/07/16/missile.treaty/index.html

      http://www.iht.com/articles/2001/08/06/edbruce_ed2_.php

      http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/programguide/stories/200708/s2005128.htm

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5605

      http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=127244

      -DJ???. Los Angeles???.






      • Posted By: Yelyena @ 08/21/2008 4:39:14 AM

        Comment: Gays i so sorry we all are building NATOUS instead of building friendship :((

        • Posted By: Braes @ 08/21/2008 8:59:07 AM

          Comment: Me too, this hopefullly wont spin out of control into worse. Frankly, Russia needs to protect herself from these people. Bush has shown an unrestrained blood-lust and an evil desire toward confllict as a part of decisionmaking. He sees destruction as a necessary event for growth or change.

          • Posted By: Yelyena @ 08/22/2008 9:04:41 AM

            Comment: Thank you for encourages, Braes.

  • Posted By: Coventry @ 08/19/2008 6:01:58 PM

    Comment: I keep wondering what the Russians are thinking. Their strategic nuclear forces are in terrible shape. My understanding is that they can hardly keep ONE balistic missile submarine at sea. Their aircraft and navy are at least three generations behind the West's. And finally, their early warning sattelites are half blind from disrepair. If push came to shove, the US could decapitate the Russian governemt befor they realized what had happend.And that, as they say, would be that.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:36:49 AM

      Comment: Well I hope none of those new MiRVed Topol systems come flying over the Icecap. They maintain a credible stockpile that can be shot. We would not be able to solve all of their stuff now. Sometime between 2012-2015, we may have the National Technical means to defeat a massed incoming ballistic missile threat, but not now. We still live well within Mutually Assured Destruction. As far as ballistic missile early warning, Ivan has enough assets to detect a launch against them, in time to even absorb hits and return fire. That is why the vehicle mounted systems are featured in Ivan's stash. Ivan has 11 time zones to stick these in sheds, hillsides, etc. We have about 5300 shootable warheads on a number of systems that can ride out a first strike, and shoot. (When our stupid Air Force, I a retiree thereof, can account for all of their stash... We really need SAC back...) Anyhow, Ivan can thump us, so you might want to check yourself there.

    • Posted By: Big_House @ 08/19/2008 8:51:09 PM

      Comment: Conventry please read...

      http://www.spacewar.com/reports/US_Venezuelas_Russia_fleet_invite_is_curious_999.html

    • Posted By: Big_House @ 08/19/2008 8:50:14 PM

      Comment: Coventry please read....

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/24/russia.usa?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

    • Posted By: sergem @ 08/19/2008 7:16:58 PM

      Comment: Get real. The US cannot even win war in Iraq. Unlike Iraq, Russia does have WMD and they would not hesitate it if being attacked. Even if the US created some missile defense system that may intercept 99% nukes in far future, remaining 1% would be enough to destroy everything in the US. So, I believe, the US and NATO are not going to start a new war any time soon.

    • Posted By: ilia25 @ 08/19/2008 6:16:42 PM

      Comment: Russia is not going to do anything that would require the West to start a Cold War. Their response to the Georgian aggression certainly was not something like that.

      They are not hurry to withdraw, but I think it just their way to show a finger to the US. They basically making Americans to choose: either they believe their President calling Russia an aggressor. And that means that US is so weak and helpless that they could not do ANYTHING to stop it. Both of which is not true.

      Or Americans should understand that their President is trying to mislead them into thinking that Russia did something bad, whereas it did not.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:52:16 AM

        Comment: Ilia,
        I honestly believe this was an October-suprise that hatched early and produced poor results. McCain needs wars and boogiemen to make himself relevant. Rice is trying to drag Europe into the rage of some former time, for temporary political gain. Bush got his Poland deal, McCain got the war his adviser has been bought to provide... (This guy sold us Achmed Chalabi and the Iraqi National Congress. It was not Iraqi, not National, and not a Congress.) McCain has accepted the Neo Con mantle and policies. He is defending an agressor state for a lobbyist. This lobbyist sells wars of agression in Oil rich places. Interpol should start a file on him. I am sure that there are 2000 counts of conspiracy to commit murder with state ordinance, for the Rocket attacks on Civilians in Tshkinvali. Since the United States Senate is a laughable institution that wont stop these ruthless animals, maybe a dose of Law could restrain them.
        I think Saakashvili is a criminal. We are just wondering if he will 'get-it' through radioactive tea, dioxin, Makarov... heheh. Now if he rots in old Slobodan's cell in the Hague until time ends, I think it would be to the shame of these neocons that their stooge was a symbol of international condemnation. I would cheer that. Most Americans are very patriotic, and we love our country, right or wrong. I love mine enough to recognize when we make mistakes in the hopes we wont go there again.

  • Posted By: Texas-conservative @ 08/19/2008 5:33:54 PM

    Comment: It's amazing to me how many comments blame America for this conflict. Perhaps Russia was acting in its own self-interest. They objected to the oil pipe-line that traverses Georgia because they don't receive any revenue. Putin himself said the greatest tragedy of the 20th century was the break-up of the Soviet Union.
    Were the Russians building up troops near S.O.?
    The 2 breakaway regions of Georgia are internationally recognized to be part of Georgia, not part of Russia and not independent. Why do the Georgian citizen's have Russian citizenship? Could it be so that the Russians have an excuse to invade Georgia in their so-called "defense"?
    Was Georgia trying to prevent a region of their country from building closer ties and gaining support from Russia and separating?
    Would we be saying the same thing if Pakistan were to send in forces to the northern frontier to battle the taliban, who also vie for a change in government?

    While it is possible that America could have some level of responsibiltiy (we are trying to create and support our allies/making allies out of cold war enemies), what amazes me is that so many here want to blame America for everything bad that happens in the world. There are other leaders and poeple who have their own strategic goals and timeline for accomplishing them. They couldn't care less about Bush or liberty.

    • Posted By: Daekler @ 08/20/2008 2:30:18 PM

      Comment: Why do we (the U.S.A.) have this quixotic notion that it's our duty to spread freedom to the rest of the world? Moreover, why do we feign indignant when Russia calls what we're doing for what it is - western imperialism. We are making our industrial defense complex very happy while making the world a much more dangerous place to live. I really wished that after the debacle in Iraq, Bush would've been smart enough to into the night...quietly.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 11:12:42 AM

      Comment: Waving the flag, or bloody shirt, is easy. Figuring out why is rough. The United States let their client start a war. Details matter. Georgia or proxies also set off a bomb on the beach in the Sochi area on the night the Olympics started. That was an attack inside Russia proper. I have seen the pictures, very gruesome, and I and gruesome are old buddies.
      Now, if some adversarial nation parked in one of my great lakes, and began a military misadventure in Milwaukee and Chicago... Texans would be heading up there to kill all of the invaders, most of the Canadians, and anyone without a Confederate sticker or flag identifying them as friendly to the cause. (Kind of like S. Ossetian irregulars... until the Russian 58th sobered up and found the keys to all the armor up the road...)
      Ivan had those troops up the road because a couple of wars were fought there against Chechen seperatists, who rearmed through the Pankisi george, which leads to their Kist cousins in Georgia. (Not our Georgia that has Atlanta there young Sherman... this is their Georgia, was their Georgia, and going to be theirs...) So Ivan has had a numbered Army goup in the neighborhood for almost 20 years now just to keep a lid on what we have been jerking around in.
      So, Blame America First? No. But when we do manage to completely blow it, and obviously make a naked play in an oil rich area risking half of Europes energy for some marginal political gain, people are going to call you on it. The first Republican president said you can't fool all of the people all of the time. You can't steal all of the oil either. Or threaten everyone with nukes or missiles, etc.
      It's not just possible that America had a hand in this, we have been driving it. You just don't get it.

      • Posted By: Texas-conservative @ 08/20/2008 12:32:26 PM

        Comment: Braes, it's always amusing to read conspiracy theories. Where you mostly lose credibility is your anti-republican (McCain) speculation in your respinse to Ilia above and your belief that we are stealing oil.
        Where is all this oil that we've stolen? The liberal media and marxist politicians in congress succeed too often in their use of false propaganda for political gain.

        By the way, in Texas, where I have lived for all 39 years of my life, I've probably seen a dozen confederate flags in my life. So if that was a "southern" jab, it came across as ignorance.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 08/20/2008 10:16:05 PM

          Comment: Ok so you have lousy eyesight, and like Oil. The Black and Caspian Sea basins are full of oil and Georgia sits between them. Oil. You know, the kind Bushies invade people to take under false pretenses. (Iraq)
          And yes, we are stuck with oil for a while.
          Marxists in Congress? No, Fascists in the executive branch.

          • Posted By: Texas-conservative @ 08/21/2008 12:00:17 PM

            Comment: Let's see, Facists are authoritarian, oppose laissez-faire capitalism, oppose globalism in favor of nationalism. Fascism also operated from a Social Darwinist view of human relations. Their aim was to promote "superior" individuals and weed out the weak.

            I for one am neither marxist or fascist. I believe in limited government as defined by the Constitution, lower taxes, and a free market capitalist economy with minimal subsidizing or bailing out (which unfortunately has been happening all to often lately).

    • Posted By: ilia25 @ 08/19