NATO’s Defining Moment

Perhaps if you, Naver, and other people like you, can get off your high horse and realize that English is not a native language for the rest of the world, maybe then US foreign policy would have some kind of success. US got a bloody nose... again... Having the best army is not good enough. Best army can't do anything but count the dead soldiers with the worse foreign policy and incompetent politicians that don't even know geography or history. Georgia is a chained dog in the hands of USA. It's obvious to most everyone. Nothing wrong with it ... if you have a good idea on how to use it. Well, the war for power (economic power) goes on and the idea was to take control of pipelines and oil prices via Georgian control. Also, expending of military involvement in that region to surround Iran. But for that we need a reason and so joining NATO was a pretty good way out but things took too long so why not speed it up - have Georgia instigate a small conflict, take the provinces back and protect Georgia from a big bad bear the Russia by inviting it to NATO. Ooops.... didn't work out because a) NATO is no longer a true immediate force - it's a multi cultured band of politicians that can't work their own problems - not to mention the problems of others.
b)Russia simply doesn't care for the world opinion - not in the way the world wants it to care. Russia has its own agenda and does a pretty good job at getting it completed. Condoleezza can talk all she wants - she is a NON-ISSUE for Russia. Just another loud mouth. Russia will do what it wants - because the CAN and it will.
c)Once again, not taking into the account the seriousness of the adversary, US made a bid on American educated and with US financial backing president Saakashvili. Once again, a tactical and possibly stratigical fiasco. Georgian army, trained and prepared by the American instructors proved to be completely unprepared to face a massive military potential of Russian army. Rightfully so, a small country of Georgia is no match to Russia and the idea that "this could fly" by Russians is a bit... absurd?
Also, the fact that South Ossetia is not recognized as a country doesn't remove the historical value of the situation. Except that it does to an uneducated politicians that don't care for history and live with very simplified ideas - which is typical for US political leaders and US foreign policies. Too bad as US can and should play a larger role in the world theater if it wasn't involved in dirty conflicts fueled by questionable financial and economical undertakings. This is not the war for South Ossetia - this is a war for economy, war for establishing an ultimate foe and drag us into the days of Cold war because we as a society need to have a big opponent - not a bunch of small ones in the face of terrorists. So bring back the Russians.
So Yelyena - this is why we "hate" you.

Hello:
Both sides have been baiting each other for years, since the "Rose Revolution" when Pres. Sakhashvilli took power. The US regime is mezmerized that Georgia is has a 'democracy' and things have been biased because of that. There are ethnic tensions that have been going on in that country since it seperated from the Soviets. Those who advocate democracy are being supported, regardless of malfeasence.

Here we go again, everytime I look at this board it's the same thing. US bashers. Either the US instigated it all, or else someone brings up Iraq or Aghanistan. First of all the first war in Iraq was entirely justified, I can name numerous reasons why but I'm not writing a book here. The second war I agree we probaby shouldn't have been there. Afghanistan on te other hand, does harbor terrorist, does persist in the drug trade, and the government harbors all of this. So yes thats justified too. That being said while I agree in some ways we shouldn't talk too loud, it certanly doesn't justify Russias involvement. The second thing I hear is how we urged Georgia on, or we should have helped or blah blah... Listen the US is not the worls Father, we might have the most advanced military, but we are not the worlds parent. These are big boy countries capable of making there own decisions. The War started because Osetia wants to be independant, Georgia is willing to allow some but not a otal seperation. Osetia doesn't like this. It's in Russias interest to either take over bordering countries or have them fight and become dependent on Russia. Because of this Russia supplies osetia and pushes them to cause trouble. Georgia nd Osetia fight, Georgia says they want to stop. Osetia Continues. Georgia Fires Rockets, Russia conveniently has a crapload of tanks and soldiers just waiting over the border. The come in raise hell take a ton of military equipment and makes a good little friend in bordering Osetia. It's a win for Russia all the way. It's a loss for all the poor civilians who could care less about the governments squabbles. As a side note the US did NOT rig nor fund Georgia's election. It was funded heavily by a group that is headed by George Soros. While Gerge is curently an "American" he spent the first 16 years of his life as a Hungarian National. Right around the end of WWII when Russia took over countries as Bloc States, including Hungaria. It's no wonder he may have a cross to bear against Russia, he might be an American doing what his heart and Bias tel him, but it isn't AMERICA the country rigginf or funding any of this.

NATO is proving to be a military "alliance" where one set of members fight and die, and the other set are humanitarian workers in camo's and battle rattle. Too many caveats, ROE's, and reluctance to fight. GERMANY, SPAIN, and ITALY are non-players in this battle. NATO has no teeth, and it should be revamped. Minus the UNITED STATES. Europe, protect YOURSELVES. Thanx, for NOTHING.

Dear Thehappyamerican, compleetly agree: we do not need CW II.
1. How do you think did Gorgia know the fire would be answered? It seems more possible that Knew and supposed it wouldn't stay without answer as it usualy happens in history (if we keep in mind that territory was a "hot point" and russian peasekeepers were dwelling there and our relations was 'hot") . Did little and uprotected Giorgia (in fact by it's own might at the face of more strong Russia) dare firing UNLESS it was sure about protection and approve of somebody more powerful ? And Who that Protector was? And whose support Saakashvili is reseving now regardles his startin firing?
2. All the news shouted " Russia invaded Gorgia!" And somehow just couple days later rare lines in newspapers mentioned muttering that Gorgia also had done something. How did it happen that firing stayed unnoticed? I compleetly sure that governores was not so innosantly anaware of what was goin on. Modern technic, sattelites, numerous FSB, FBS and so on on on... But governores could reveal NO infomation that was not to be revealed for majority of population. Not to be revealed in order ...? It is not population's matter in order why.
Conclusions: And Russia'd done what was anticipated it would do. And i personally feel somebody very glad he has more and more reason to cry - DESTROY THEM! BEARS! BEARS!
Gays, we do not want Cold War, but WHY DO YOU HATE US? WHYYYYYY???!!!!

Wow, Russian propaganda is alive and well on this board. It seems the opinion is NATO is dead. I am glad that most Russians have that opinion because if they really want to mix it up with NATO it is a classic military mistake to underestimate your enemies.

Russians also seem to be upset that the cease fire that was broken is not mentioned more in the news. If you feel that way then that is too bad. Anything Georgia did now pales in comparison to what the Russian Army has done. I also would not be so sure that Georgia fired first. Russia has caused more death, suffering and chaos than Georgia did with their military assault. This intrusion has also shown us the undisciplined behavior of Russia's soldiers. The amount of violence Russia has used against Georgia, the raw looting of Georgia (including US Humvees), the destruction of Georgia's defenses and the virtual blockade of food to the civilian population makes Georgia even if they fired first in Ossetia the victim. If the best Russia can come up with is 'Georgia fired first', mind you in a war zone then please don't bother writing about who is the victim or agressor. Nobody believes it which is why there is no coverage on it. Find something else with your Russian victim complex as a justification. This one does not hold water for us.

("the alliance foreign ministers, including American Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, had already gathered to confront another crisis that had shocked the Western alliance: Russia's ruthless move into Georgian territory to ") When it come to Russia, the west will use such terms and phrases -"ruthless", but what about the brutal invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and othe otricities by the west? Come on, the conflict in Georgia was instigated by the US, Russia justly and rightfully responded.

"On the roads full of refugees near the embattled Georgian town of Tskhinvali over the weekend, the mood already was changing from defiance toward Moscow to frustration with Saakashvili's government. "

Georgian Town of Tskhinvali?? As in "Tskhinvali, the South-Ossetian capital"? Defiance to their Russian protectors? I think the author doesn't even know where is Georgia, Ossetia, or what is he talking about.

I think it's time for Europe to emancipate ourselves from American tutelage and get rid of this absurd organization called NATO. We have a strong economy and a strong currency. We should start thinking about developing a common European Defense Forces to pursue our own objectives, without having to be dragged by the warmongering Americans into every adventure they come up with to maintain their hegemony.

Nato's Defining Moment" Afghanistan's part has been superseded by news reports that the 10 French soldiers killed in Afghanistan have not been killed by the Taliban as initially was reported. They were killed
by American air strikes! And it is nothing unusual about it. U.S. air strikes have also killed a group of Canadians 2 years ago, and have strafed and killed Pakistani soldiers carrying out U.S. requested military operations. That is why Germany decided to station its Afghanistan force in the quiet northwest city of Mazaar El Sharif to prevent them from the bedlam warfare in Taliban active provinces.

Ten days ago, Afghan president Hamid Karzai lamented again -as he had done more than a dozen times- that "The only result of ...air strikes is the killing of civilians. This is not the way to wage the fight against terrorism," on quote. Now we learn that the U.S. air strikes don't kill only civilians, but also the forces of
the U.S. allies -except the Germans, because they are stationed so far.

Last February, Former Pakistani prime minister Nawaz Sharif told the U.S. that he wants "the U.S. bombing of Pakistani villages to stop." And given Karzai's similar requests that have fallen in deaf U.S. ears, as well as the U.S. bombing of the Canadians and the French, the indiscriminate U.S. bombing in both Pakistan and Afghanistan seems to have become a curse that has alienated both leaders and civilians in both countries. I remember the Canadians felt disgusted about the killing of their soldiers by a
U.S. aircraft, and I expect to see a similar reaction by the French when the who really killed the French soldiers in Afghanistan hit the headlines. Surely, the French president Sarkozy will also take a hit in his
already low public approval rating.

It has always been a motto in the military parlance that 'You cannot win a war from the air." The Israeli learned that lesson the hard way when the bombed Lebanon relentlessly for 68 days, then sent is their ground force to mop up their enemy, only to see that their invasion force was ambushed and destroyed by Hezbollah. But the U.S. has still to learn that bombing civilians in their villages in both Afghanistan, Pakistan just made their defenders heroes - as Israel has made Hezbollah the hero of the Middle East.
Nikos Retsos, retired academic.