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INTERNATIONAL

NATO’s Defining Moment

An alliance under fire from the Caucasus to the Hindu Kush.

By Christopher Dickey | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Aug 20, 2008 | Updated: 9:52  a.m. ET Aug 20, 2008

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  • Posted By: Mracer @ 08/25/2008 9:37:52 AM

    Comment: Perhaps if you, Naver, and other people like you, can get off your high horse and realize that English is not a native language for the rest of the world, maybe then US foreign policy would have some kind of success. US got a bloody nose... again... Having the best army is not good enough. Best army can't do anything but count the dead soldiers with the worse foreign policy and incompetent politicians that don't even know geography or history. Georgia is a chained dog in the hands of USA. It's obvious to most everyone. Nothing wrong with it ... if you have a good idea on how to use it. Well, the war for power (economic power) goes on and the idea was to take control of pipelines and oil prices via Georgian control. Also, expending of military involvement in that region to surround Iran. But for that we need a reason and so joining NATO was a pretty good way out but things took too long so why not speed it up - have Georgia instigate a small conflict, take the provinces back and protect Georgia from a big bad bear the Russia by inviting it to NATO. Ooops.... didn't work out because a) NATO is no longer a true immediate force - it's a multi cultured band of politicians that can't work their own problems - not to mention the problems of others.
    b)Russia simply doesn't care for the world opinion - not in the way the world wants it to care. Russia has its own agenda and does a pretty good job at getting it completed. Condoleezza can talk all she wants - she is a NON-ISSUE for Russia. Just another loud mouth. Russia will do what it wants - because the CAN and it will.
    c)Once again, not taking into the account the seriousness of the adversary, US made a bid on American educated and with US financial backing president Saakashvili. Once again, a tactical and possibly stratigical fiasco. Georgian army, trained and prepared by the American instructors proved to be completely unprepared to face a massive military potential of Russian army. Rightfully so, a small country of Georgia is no match to Russia and the idea that "this could fly" by Russians is a bit... absurd?
    Also, the fact that South Ossetia is not recognized as a country doesn't remove the historical value of the situation. Except that it does to an uneducated politicians that don't care for history and live with very simplified ideas - which is typical for US political leaders and US foreign policies. Too bad as US can and should play a larger role in the world theater if it wasn't involved in dirty conflicts fueled by questionable financial and economical undertakings. This is not the war for South Ossetia - this is a war for economy, war for establishing an ultimate foe and drag us into the days of Cold war because we as a society need to have a big opponent - not a bunch of small ones in the face of terrorists. So bring back the Russians.
    So Yelyena - this is why we "hate" you.

    • Posted By: Yelyena @ 08/28/2008 6:11:01 AM

      Comment: Guys, i adore you for your comments :)
      I am very sorry when Rus give reason to suspect and blame their self.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/26/2008 10:25:43 AM

      Comment: There are a lot of Americans who think this misadventure was sick, unlawful, and politically motivated.
      I also don't hate any Yelenas, Yuris, Dmitris etc.

      • Posted By: Yelyena @ 08/28/2008 6:15:31 AM

        Comment: Braes - for you my spesial respect for your coments - contribution to heal international relations.

    • Posted By: Silver999 @ 08/25/2008 11:32:42 AM

      Comment: Read my post and study the facts to see what funded georgians current president. You could say technically it's us funding, but if I moved from the us to canada for a couple of years and funded something in US interests is it Canadian funding? There would be a tagline that said (US Born Before the story) As for Russia caring of course it does, world trade=money and money talks.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/26/2008 10:30:59 AM

        Comment: Color revolutions by Soros, with aid and assistance of various intelligence services, foreign and domestic.

  • Posted By: incompetent @ 08/25/2008 8:10:10 AM

    Comment: Tshinvali is Osetian City and has been destroyed by georgians what has sparkled the conflict.

  • Posted By: lovejusticepeace @ 08/23/2008 12:33:54 PM

    Comment: USA was founded on genocide.The native Red Indians were ruthlessly wiped out.The Red Indians hunting grounds were stolen from them.The 50th state Hawaii was ANNEXED by USA by supporting and funding a palace coup.Since its inception like the British it has followed a path of hedonism,prosperity gospel and teaching the world to sin through pornography, adultery,alcoholism,violence and the like.USA holds the dubious distinction of being the only country ever to use murderous weapons of mass destruction(atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki) on civilians.

  • Posted By: Trooper101st @ 08/23/2008 9:17:04 AM

    Comment: NATO is proving to be a military "alliance" where one set of members fight and die, and the other set are humanitarian workers in camo's and battle rattle. Too many caveats, ROE's, and reluctance to fight. GERMANY, SPAIN, and ITALY are non-players in this battle. NATO has no teeth, and it should be revamped. Minus the UNITED STATES. Europe, protect YOURSELVES. Thanx, for NOTHING.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/26/2008 10:29:46 AM

      Comment: I believe after 9/11, most Europeans would have crawled to afghanistan to get Osama. Once Bush let him get away, then say he wasn't worried anymore, the world just took him at his word.
      Hey, let's go shopping!

  • Posted By: Silver999 @ 08/22/2008 2:47:00 PM

    Comment: Here we go again, everytime I look at this board it's the same thing. US bashers. Either the US instigated it all, or else someone brings up Iraq or Aghanistan. First of all the first war in Iraq was entirely justified, I can name numerous reasons why but I'm not writing a book here. The second war I agree we probaby shouldn't have been there. Afghanistan on te other hand, does harbor terrorist, does persist in the drug trade, and the government harbors all of this. So yes thats justified too. That being said while I agree in some ways we shouldn't talk too loud, it certanly doesn't justify Russias involvement. The second thing I hear is how we urged Georgia on, or we should have helped or blah blah... Listen the US is not the worls Father, we might have the most advanced military, but we are not the worlds parent. These are big boy countries capable of making there own decisions. The War started because Osetia wants to be independant, Georgia is willing to allow some but not a otal seperation. Osetia doesn't like this. It's in Russias interest to either take over bordering countries or have them fight and become dependent on Russia. Because of this Russia supplies osetia and pushes them to cause trouble. Georgia nd Osetia fight, Georgia says they want to stop. Osetia Continues. Georgia Fires Rockets, Russia conveniently has a crapload of tanks and soldiers just waiting over the border. The come in raise hell take a ton of military equipment and makes a good little friend in bordering Osetia. It's a win for Russia all the way. It's a loss for all the poor civilians who could care less about the governments squabbles. As a side note the US did NOT rig nor fund Georgia's election. It was funded heavily by a group that is headed by George Soros. While Gerge is curently an "American" he spent the first 16 years of his life as a Hungarian National. Right around the end of WWII when Russia took over countries as Bloc States, including Hungaria. It's no wonder he may have a cross to bear against Russia, he might be an American doing what his heart and Bias tel him, but it isn't AMERICA the country rigginf or funding any of this.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/26/2008 10:32:45 AM

      Comment: No, not our elected Government, but the shadow one, run by the CFR, AIPAC, PNAC, Oil Cartel, and Chenhole. Some can quickly follow the strings from puppet to master.

  • Posted By: TomMarAlem1987 @ 08/21/2008 8:52:21 PM

    Comment: Hello:
    Both sides have been baiting each other for years, since the "Rose Revolution" when Pres. Sakhashvilli took power. The US regime is mezmerized that Georgia is has a 'democracy' and things have been biased because of that. There are ethnic tensions that have been going on in that country since it seperated from the Soviets. Those who advocate democracy are being supported, regardless of malfeasence.

    • Posted By: streetwise @ 08/23/2008 10:39:44 AM

      Comment: No one is criticizing the 1st Iraqui war (a masterpiece, especially compared with the second: then Colin Powel did what he knows how to do, and did not frett with a false porobe in the UNO assembly), nore the BEGINNING of afghan war (an then Russia was on western side, don't forget...) . Thing went wrong exactly later: distraction of forces (and money) for an ill planned, false-based and poorly made war, while the other problem (the afghan after war) was not fully solved yet (and THERE those money were moste usefull and needed...) . The rest is Bush...
      Of course US is not the world's parent . The point is, mostly they speak (and act) as if they were...
      All in all, good post... .

      • Posted By: Braes @ 08/26/2008 10:34:27 AM

        Comment: Al Qaeda has changed and runs off the opium crop, which we don't stop. We abandoned Afghanistan for Iraq.

  • Posted By: logical_thinker_007 @ 08/21/2008 3:04:37 PM

    Comment: I think NATO is still stuck in the 80's mentality - what is the purpose of NATO any more anyway? Russia is NOT our enemy any more - they sell us oil and gas, and they need us to buy their oil and gas - it is extremism and ignorance on all sides that is the enemy. We do not even need to be scared of China, as countries that trade together do not go to war with each other. The vastly expensive armies of today are no match for ragtag militants who hide behind bushes and strike with shoulder-fired rockets. The biggest threat to this world is global warming, followed by terrorism. Both track back to a lack of education, moderation, and responsibility. The ignorant masses either become easily exploited through religion (if you don't use critical thought you are easily deceived) or through fear. The selfishness of the ruling class (the corporations and the politicians they control) means that we are locked in a system where you only care about the short term, you run budget deficits, under-invest in infrastructure (including education), and re-invent old enemies in order to keep the masses scared and unquestioning while you rob the country (a la the Bush Administration). Who cares about the future, right? The West (mostly US) has spent the last decade expanding NATO all around Russia (imagine if Russia started putting missiles back into Cuba) and now we are surprised the Russians reacted? Lastly, after invading Iraq, it is VERY stupid for the US to lecture anyone on respecting sovereign nations. I do not even need to mention the bitter irony of Afghanistan - where the US armed the Taliban to fight the Russians, and now NATO has to clean up the mess.

    Instead of leading our people to solve the real threats (like global warming) we allow/perpetrate provocation (attacking innocent Muslim countries), poverty, racial and religious extremism (borne of ignorance) and desperation to grow and fester until they turn into terrorism. Just watch as climate change causes terrible damage to the natural systems, agriculture and the economy over the next 30 years and our problems only magnify, unless we QUICKLY elect some better leaders and get more involved in monitoring what they are doing.

  • Posted By: Akmatic @ 08/21/2008 12:46:37 PM

    Comment: I would also like to add that from a strategic standpoint, invading Georgia was the best move Russia has ever come up with in regards to it's military manuevers. Not only have they probed the West/NATO and found them to be completely inept, but they've also succeeded in one of their secondary objectives; increasing the world gas prices over market fears that supplies will drop due to the invasion of Georgia. The Russian oil 'teet' is not to be messed with...

  • Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 08/21/2008 6:04:48 AM

    Comment: ("the alliance foreign ministers, including American Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, had already gathered to confront another crisis that had shocked the Western alliance: Russia's ruthless move into Georgian territory to ") When it come to Russia, the west will use such terms and phrases -"ruthless", but what about the brutal invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and othe otricities by the west? Come on, the conflict in Georgia was instigated by the US, Russia justly and rightfully responded.

    • Posted By: logical_thinker_007 @ 08/21/2008 3:54:19 PM

      Comment: nawawimohamad, well said!

    • Posted By: Akmatic @ 08/21/2008 10:16:05 AM

      Comment: Russia had to defend itself, of course, but the means it used in response to the aggression were completely out of proportion. The right of self-defense is not unlimited; it is subject to international humanitarian rules of armed conflict, which protect civilians from the horrors of war. The photographs showing destroyed houses, as well as people killed and wounded, show that these rules have clearly been violated by the Russians and separatist death squads.

      I???m glad you support the destruction of civilian infrastructure & economic assets, the murder of unarmed civilians & reporters, the looting * burning of civilian goods and homes; all done under by those separatist militia death squads and the russian ???peace keepers??? who not only took part in it as well; but protected them at the same time.

      No ones going to stand up and speak positively in regards to what has occurred in Iraq b/c I think anyone with half a brain can see that it was a huge mistake to go there in the first place and inflict so much suffering on it???s people under the guise of there being WMD???s (for which the Bush administration should be strung up). Personally, I find it disgusting to read some of the support people are giving the Russians considering the blatant humanitarian crisis and atrocities they???ve committed

  • Posted By: froy1100 @ 08/21/2008 12:41:25 AM

    Comment: I think it's time for Europe to emancipate ourselves from American tutelage and get rid of this absurd organization called NATO. We have a strong economy and a strong currency. We should start thinking about developing a common European Defense Forces to pursue our own objectives, without having to be dragged by the warmongering Americans into every adventure they come up with to maintain their hegemony.

    • Posted By: Akmatic @ 08/21/2008 10:17:38 AM

      Comment: As an American, I completely agree and would gladly trade every single one of our EU & NATO allies for the same relationship with the Russians post Cold War. Instead we shunned them and escalated an existing negative relationship in the interim b/c of our stupid pride (read: foreign policies) versus having worked with them to produce a valuable relationship for both sides. A good working relationship with the Russians would???ve been worth 5 EU???s and acted as a perfect counter balance for the Chinese; instead we face a very real possibility of eventually having to confront one or both of them on two fronts akin to WW2 in the Euro and Pacific theatres.

      The EU looks good on paper as an Ally when you consider physical locations on a map of the world, but that's about it. You can't count on them for any kind of meaningful military or political support aside from the British and when something like the Georgia/Russian conflict pops up; they're completely useless b/c they are forced to suckle the Russians oil 'teet'.

      Yeah, go ahead and emancipate yourselves, maybe we???ll leave a light on in the porch for you when you come back with your tail between your legs the minute a physical confrontation arises. Regardless of what EU country you live in, you???re incredibly fortunate to not already be speaking fluent sputnik or German as your countries official language; ingrates???

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/21/2008 9:15:19 AM

      Comment: That's about right. This adminsitration turned NATO into something Not Atlantic, Not a Treaty, and Not Organized. It has been U.S. terms and conditions since '49.

  • Posted By: froy1100 @ 08/21/2008 12:36:52 AM

    Comment: "On the roads full of refugees near the embattled Georgian town of Tskhinvali over the weekend, the mood already was changing from defiance toward Moscow to frustration with Saakashvili's government. "

    Georgian Town of Tskhinvali?? As in "Tskhinvali, the South-Ossetian capital"? Defiance to their Russian protectors? I think the author doesn't even know where is Georgia, Ossetia, or what is he talking about.

    • Posted By: MySpinOnThings @ 08/21/2008 10:48:54 AM

      Comment: No Froy....as in Tskhinvali, part of the internationally recognized independent state of Georgia. Contrary to your beliefs, Ossetia is NOT recognized as an independent state. It's nothing but a revolting providence supported by Russian 'peace keepers.'

      Ossetians are nothing but Georgians with Russian issued passports. They are Georgians.

  • Posted By: mordess @ 08/20/2008 9:12:35 PM

    Comment: Russia is a state that feels secure only when its neighbors are insecure. That is the basis of its policy thru the centuries and Comrade Putin is merely reverting to form. Churchill was right: "If the world were a hotel, the Russians would be walking the halls checking the doorknobs." Or lets put it this way: Scratch a Russian and you'll have to wash the slime off your hands.

  • Posted By: pmoffatt1 @ 08/20/2008 4:23:48 PM

    Comment: Wow, Russian propaganda is alive and well on this board. It seems the opinion is NATO is dead. I am glad that most Russians have that opinion because if they really want to mix it up with NATO it is a classic military mistake to underestimate your enemies.

    Russians also seem to be upset that the cease fire that was broken is not mentioned more in the news. If you feel that way then that is too bad. Anything Georgia did now pales in comparison to what the Russian Army has done. I also would not be so sure that Georgia fired first. Russia has caused more death, suffering and chaos than Georgia did with their military assault. This intrusion has also shown us the undisciplined behavior of Russia's soldiers. The amount of violence Russia has used against Georgia, the raw looting of Georgia (including US Humvees), the destruction of Georgia's defenses and the virtual blockade of food to the civilian population makes Georgia even if they fired first in Ossetia the victim. If the best Russia can come up with is 'Georgia fired first', mind you in a war zone then please don't bother writing about who is the victim or agressor. Nobody believes it which is why there is no coverage on it. Find something else with your Russian victim complex as a justification. This one does not hold water for us.

    • Posted By: logical_thinker_007 @ 08/21/2008 4:05:36 PM

      Comment: Yes, Russians probably provoked the crazy Gerogian president into making this huge mistake, and their real objective was to get him out of power because he wanted to join NATO, but the bottom line is that he got winks from Washington that he misinterpreted, just like the poor Iraqis did in the 90's when they started a rebellion against Saddam expecting American help that never came, then got slaughtered. Bottom line is, NATO has no business setting up missile "defence" around Russia's borders, just like Russia had no business putting nukes in Cuba. Simple.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 08/21/2008 9:20:23 AM

      Comment: Ok so they caught some American Humvees at a port and took them. They also overran a lot of gear these Georgians dropped on the run. Losing a short war has long consequences. Blaming Russia is easy. If Saakashvili had been a mature sort, he could have applied for relief and not attacked. He chose a gambit of force. He lost.

  • Posted By: Retsos Nikos @ 08/20/2008 3:58:06 PM

    Comment: Nato's Defining Moment" Afghanistan's part has been superseded by news reports that the 10 French soldiers killed in Afghanistan have not been killed by the Taliban as initially was reported. They were killed
    by American air strikes! And it is nothing unusual about it. U.S. air strikes have also killed a group of Canadians 2 years ago, and have strafed and killed Pakistani soldiers carrying out U.S. requested military operations. That is why Germany decided to station its Afghanistan force in the quiet northwest city of Mazaar El Sharif to prevent them from the bedlam warfare in Taliban active provinces.

    Ten days ago, Afghan president Hamid Karzai lamented again -as he had done more than a dozen times- that "The only result of ...air strikes is the killing of civilians. This is not the way to wage the fight against terrorism," on quote. Now we learn that the U.S. air strikes don't kill only civilians, but also the forces of
    the U.S. allies -except the Germans, because they are stationed so far.

    Last February, Former Pakistani prime minister Nawaz Sharif told the U.S. that he wants "the U.S. bombing of Pakistani villages to stop." And given Karzai's similar requests that have fallen in deaf U.S. ears, as well as the U.S. bombing of the Canadians and the French, the indiscriminate U.S. bombing in both Pakistan and Afghanistan seems to have become a curse that has alienated both leaders and civilians in both countries. I remember the Canadians felt disgusted about the killing of their soldiers by a
    U.S. aircraft, and I expect to see a similar reaction by the French when the who really killed the French soldiers in Afghanistan hit the headlines. Surely, the French president Sarkozy will also take a hit in his
    already low public approval rating.

    It has always been a motto in the military parlance that 'You cannot win a war from the air." The Israeli learned that lesson the hard way when the bombed Lebanon relentlessly for 68 days, then sent is their ground force to mop up their enemy, only to see that their invasion force was ambushed and destroyed by Hezbollah. But the U.S. has still to learn that bombing civilians in their villages in both Afghanistan, Pakistan just made their defenders heroes - as Israel has made Hezbollah the hero of the Middle East.
    Nikos Retsos, retired academic.

    • Posted By: Naver @ 08/20/2008 4:49:08 PM

      Comment: First. You are not a retired academic. Your a troll for middle east issues.
      Second. The French soldiers were killed in an ambush, not by U.S. planes. Liars are so pathetic,
      Third. Your beliefs do not constitue fact.
      Fourth. Since you are so fond of quotes.
      "It is only the dead who have seen the end of war."
      Plato
      "War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun."
      Mao Zedong
      "We make war that we may live in peace."
      Aristotle
      "They have not wanted Peace at all; they have wanted to be spared war -- as though the absence of war was the same as peace."
      Dorothy Thompson
      "Religion and science both profess peace (and the sincerity of the professors is not being doubted), but each always turns out to have a dominant part in any war that is going or contemplated."
      Howard Nemerov
      "War is like love, it always finds a way."
      Bertolt Brecht

  • Posted By: TGTTEO @ 08/20/2008 3:46:26 PM

    Comment: If you know what NATO also stands for you will know where it is heading. No Action Talk Only!

  • Posted By: wildlifeusa @ 08/20/2008 1:15:20 PM

    Comment: By the way, french wounded soldiers in Afghanistan said today in Journal Le Monde, American plane fired on them and Afghan troops... Americans really do not care about collateral damage, do they??

  • Posted By: ajaxtheleast @ 08/20/2008 10:36:46 AM

    Comment: "The future of our relations will depend on the concrete actions Russia will take which
    is not happening now." Said Jaap De Hoop Sheffer as he was granted leave from his
    native country's Olympic basketball team to tend to his current obligation
    as NATO Secretary General.

  • Posted By: Yelyena @ 08/20/2008 10:01:03 AM

    Comment: Dear Thehappyamerican, compleetly agree: we do not need CW II.
    1. How do you think did Gorgia know the fire would be answered? It seems more possible that Knew and supposed it wouldn't stay without answer as it usualy happens in history (if we keep in mind that territory was a "hot point" and russian peasekeepers were dwelling there and our relations was 'hot") . Did little and uprotected Giorgia (in fact by it's own might at the face of more strong Russia) dare firing UNLESS it was sure about protection and approve of somebody more powerful ? And Who that Protector was? And whose support Saakashvili is reseving now regardles his startin firing?
    2. All the news shouted " Russia invaded Gorgia!" And somehow just couple days later rare lines in newspapers mentioned muttering that Gorgia also had done something. How did it happen that firing stayed unnoticed? I compleetly sure that governores was not so innosantly anaware of what was goin on. Modern technic, sattelites, numerous FSB, FBS and so on on on... But governores could reveal NO infomation that was not to be revealed for majority of population. Not to be revealed in order ...? It is not population's matter in order why.
    Conclusions: And Russia'd done what was anticipated it would do. And i personally feel somebody very glad he has more and more reason to cry - DESTROY THEM! BEARS! BEARS!
    Gays, we do not want Cold War, but WHY DO YOU HATE US? WHYYYYYY???!!!!

    • Posted By: Naver @ 08/20/2008 4:16:14 PM

      Comment: Well perhaps if you could spell and structure your thoughs better, so that people could understand you, they would not hate you. Or maybe it is because Russia started the whole thing by supplying their proxy troops...I mean the separatists... with weapons and having them shoot at Georgian troops. Funny that all of Russia's "Elite" troops just happen to be at the border waiting for an excuse to invade a foriegn country.

      • Posted By: Mracer @ 08/25/2008 9:37:29 AM

        Comment: Perhaps if you, Naver, and other people like you, can get off your high horse and realize that English is not a native language for the rest of the world, maybe then US foreign policy would have some kind of success. US got a bloody nose... again... Having the best army is not good enough. Best army can't do anything but count the dead soldiers with the worse foreign policy and incompetent politicians that don't even know geography or history. Georgia is a chained dog in the hands of USA. It's obvious to most everyone. Nothing wrong with it ... if you have a good idea on how to use it. Well, the war for power (economic power) goes on and the idea was to take control of pipelines and oil prices via Georgian control. Also, expending of military involvement in that region to surround Iran. But for that we need a reason and so joining NATO was a pretty good way out but things took too long so why not speed it up - have Georgia instigate a small conflict, take the provinces back and protect Georgia from a big bad bear the Russia by inviting it to NATO. Ooops.... didn't work out because a) NATO is no longer a true immediate force - it's a multi cultured band of politicians that can't work their own problems - not to mention the problems of others.
        b)Russia simply doesn't care for the world opinion - not in the way the world wants it to care. Russia has its own agenda and does a pretty good job at getting it completed. Condoleezza can talk all she wants - she is a NON-ISSUE for Russia. Just another loud mouth. Russia will do what it wants - because the CAN and it will.
        c)Once again, not taking into the account the seriousness of the adversary, US made a bid on American educated and with US financial backing president Saakashvili. Once again, a tactical and possibly stratigical fiasco. Georgian army, trained and prepared by the American instructors proved to be completely unprepared to face a massive military potential of Russian army. Rightfully so, a small country of Georgia is no match to Russia and the idea that "this could fly" by Russians is a bit... absurd?
        Also, the fact that South Ossetia is not recognized as a country doesn't remove the historical value of the situation. Except that it does to an uneducated politicians that don't care for history and live with very simplified ideas - which is typical for US political leaders and US foreign policies. Too bad as US can and should play a larger role in the world theater if it wasn't involved in dirty conflicts fueled by questionable financial and economical undertakings. This is not the war for South Ossetia - this is a war for economy, war for establishing an ultimate foe and drag us into the days of Cold war because we as a society need to have a big opponent - not a bunch of small ones in the face of terrorists. So bring back the Russians.
        So Yelyena - this is why we "hate" you.

 
 
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