Will its takeover over the U.S. economy really matter?
Comment: Dear darrelcc ,
Do you believe in Santa also? USA is a arrogant big joke and only blind people like you don´t see how fake it is
Comment: This is what some said of Japan before the Nikkei bubble popped.
Comment: Is there a real China threat? No, not before, not now, not in the future. It is all in the imagination of some phobic Americans.
As it is, the standard of living of the Chinese will not match that of the Americans for many more years to come, unless of course the US economy gradually sinks to an incredibly low level and China continues its double digit annual growth relentlessly.
However, even that should not constitute a threat. A prosperous China will certainly be more acceptable to the world than a poverty stricken and hungry (if not angry) giant. China, as the largest world economic power in the future will be the greatest asset for all mankind. (Tan Boon Tee)
Comment: Should the american government review its China policy after the cold war?
Comment: This article seems like more newsweek crap.
Comment: If free trade is to exist in the future then we must have a level playing field. We cannot allow countries to cheat by rigging their currencies. It makes America look weak. If we allow ourselves to be played for fools, it will have consequences in other areas like nation security. If you allow one window on a house to stay broken, soon all your windows will be smashed.
The only people who want this currency rigging game to continue are the Chinese government and some sleazy US financial arbitragers who are profiting from this outrage.
Comment: This comment on China's economic policy by Samualson is ridiculous. What he means is that China needs to destroy its ecnomy to accomodate US need. One thing he did not mention is that those manufacture job will not stay in the US regardless how much the Chinese inflate their currency: they will move to Mexico, India, Vietnam, Cambodia, Phillipine to take advantage of the cheap labor to survive. The pricing in China's major cities is already close to US level. A further valuation of their currency will certainly generates a bubble like those 90s' in Japan. If China listens to American's advise, it would be dead long ago. This author has a long history of anti-China rhetorics in his comment, full of ignorance, xenophobia and prejudice. His comment is close to worthless.
Comment: US tax policies encourage big business to over invest in Chinese factories by letting them defer corporate tax on foreign earnings. Since profits in the US are after tax there is not as money to be reinvested here.
It is time to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with these stupid tax policies. At least Obama recognizes the problem here and is trying to do something about it.
Comment: 21.08.08 marks the day Hawaii became the 50th state of USA.
How ?
Through deceit .USA sponsored a palace coup in Honolulu.
That marks the 50th state stolen from natives !
The world can judge better who is a threat to the peace and economy of the world.
Comment: Lay off the dope, hippie.
Comment: Heroburma,
I think the essence of this article is that the American architecture is one of shared prosperity where the Chinese is one of being more self-serving and nationalistic. You are right that you are entitled to propogate your own values. But what if Samuelson is correct? What if your values destablize the world economy and we all suffer?
Certainly when one nation prospers and other nation suffers, this can start a war just as surely as denial of access to natural resources. For those of you who view America so cynically, you will say that America has done this in the Gulf Wars. And if that's the case, then the Chinese "values" will surely lead to future wars.
Comment: FreeThinking: your points about America might be on point. Why can't your viewpoint AND Samuelson's both be correct. In assuming that your viewpoint excludes his, I think you are guilty of the same "lazy American thinking."
I also don't think that our intention to increase our power in the world is as "evil" as you might suggest. I think the intention of American policy has been the best way to ensure our own safety is to make sure our neighbors prosper with us. I don't think it's so we can dominate them. How is that worse than trying to hoard money and natural resources even if it harms everyone else in the world?
Comment: Urbnsurfr :
It is not always possible for BOTH points of view to be correct, even in a world of moral relativity.
I don't think that you can accuse me of lazy thinking,
I have pointed out the flaws in Samuelson's argument, in particular, his statement that America's purpose is to "increase its power in the world", while China's is to "ensure domestic stability". These are his actual words in an article entitled " The Real China Threat." Now if China's central purpose is to "ensure domestic stability", how can it be a threat to America? And if central America's purpose is to increase its power in the world, how can it not be a threat others ( and itself)?
And if you really think the intention of American power is to ...."make sure that our neighbours prosper with us", you are either naive, self-deluding or deeply hypocritical
as well as intellectually lazy.
Try telling that to the Iraquis and the people living in all the other parts of the world that America has destabilised. No less a figure than Alan Greenspan has admitted that the Iraqui war was essentially about oil.
I'd be interested to see if you have a rebuttal to the points I have made above.
Comment: "China will destabilize the world economy. It will distort trade, foster huge financial imbalances and trigger a contentious competition for scarce raw materials."
Hmm. Sounds a lot like another country - ours.
"After World War II, the United States defined its interests as promoting the prosperity of its allies. The aims were to combat communism and prevent another Great Depression."
Uh, no. The aims were to advance the US system of capitalism with us as the main benefactors. If a few other countries benefitted, too, well, that's nice, dear.
"Prosperity is considered essential to maintaining public order and the Communist Party's political monopoly."
Change the words "Communist Party's" to "American's" and you have our official political doctrine for the last 60 years.
"But the United States has seen a prosperous global economy as a means to expanding its power, while China sees the global economy???guaranteed markets for its exports and raw materials???as the means to promoting domestic stability."
And this is the crux of the matter - maybe, if America had used a prosperous global economy as a means to promote stability instead of expanding it's power, the world wouldn't be in the mess it is currently in.
If we are looking for a country that has been greedy in it's gobbling of the world's natural resources, arrogant about it's place in the world, and manipulative in it's dealings with other countries, we need look no further than our own.
America is reaping what it has sown. Should China beat us at our own game, we have only ourselves to blame for setting such a sterling example.
Comment: How dare you put down the greatest country on earth like that. It scares me to see you use the word "ours" as I would . Name a dissaster in this world that the US wasn't the first to mobilize itself and come to the rescue. C. MacLean, I trunever consider you a true American if you truly believe all that garbage you wrote. American's have the best of everything thanks to this great country we live in. Freedom, security, liberty, the ability to apply ourselves and be succesfulll. Why don't you pack your bags and drag your anti-american ass off this continent. Perhaps residents of the middle east or some obscure comminist ruled island will accept an unpatriotic worthless piece of *** like you.
Comment: Agree completely with C.Maclean's " deconstruction" of Samuelson's words.
It's refreshing to see Americans being able to analyse and think for themselves, instead of spouting the prejudiced cliches and racist stereotypes that they have heard or read in the right-wing American media.
Comment: Well, I don't have time to write an extensive argument so I'll just sum it up. You're argument has little to do with the article at hand, the goals of both countries are stated to be the same in the article, self interest. Second, check a history text book, America was a major factor in globalizing the world. Third, check an economics text book and maybe you'll understand the article, and fourth, FreethinkingAmerican, claiming your side of the argument as nonconformist is a test book psychological example of how people think about conformity, grow up.
Comment: Generic person :
Good title for the average American voter.
As Churchill said, " The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter."
I am afraid you have not presented any kind of argument, let alone developed an extensive argument. No argument, just presenting an opinion unsubstantiated by facts or analysis.
I doubt that it is lack of time that prevents you from presenting an extensive argument; most likely, a lack of something else?
Comment: When a nation has a low currency, its exports are in high demand. Everyone wants to buy from them because they can make it the cheapest and they do so it will sell.
After the nation generates high revenue thanks to high demand, the value of their currency increases because of it. They can no longer produce at low prices and the demand for their exports is decreased. They lose revenue, but at the same time their buying power is increased thanks to the higher value of their currency.
The nation is able to focus more on importing, buying with the new power of their currency. Eventually mostly spending will result in a shift of money to other nations with lower valued currency because the nation with the higher currency is doing all of the buying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depreciation
For a long time governments attempted to prevent this part of world trade with tariffs because they saw their nation's economy getting weaker (which is partly true) or because they just didn't like their neighbors. Then, after the war, America and other allied nations realized that free trade was beneficial in the long run, so they worked to remove the tariffs and create the systems of trade we have today.
Then China comes along and realizes it can have its cake and eat it too. All it has to do, is artificially control its currency. When the value would naturally increase because of high sales, it can put a stop to the rise and continue the high exports. The consequence is that the value of other nations' money decreases and when it comes time for china to do the buying, it's literally competing with it self.
"Symptoms of instability have already surfaced, and if they grow worse, everyone???including the Chinese???may suffer."
In capitalism there are winners, and losers, there is no right or wrong, all's fair. Mr. Samuelson is not saying that China is some evil nation that wants to take all of our money, hes saying that their current course of action is SELF DESTRUCTIVE (stated in the article) and that it happens to screw everyone else in the process.
"Both the United States and China are self-interested"
Yes Mr. Samuelson states examples of how America aided in creating global trade which ended up helping everyone who took part in it, but he's certainly not trying to fool anyone about America's true goals, making money.
By the way, nice call on America's huge deficit screwing us and everyone else, Mr. Samuelson wrote an article about it just a few months back, it was a good read.
Comment: A grossly distorted, U.S centric viewpoint.
I have three points to make :
1. The greatest threat to the U.S. and world economy is the U.S. itself in the
destabilising of the world financial system through the credit crunch crisis and
the huge U.S. trade and budget deficit - all these the result of a country living
beyond its means through debt on consumer spending and feeding the
militaryindustrial complex President Eisenhower warned against in his Farewell
Speech to the Nation in1961 (which America has completely ignored and
forgotten).
2. Samuelson mentions the improvement in living standards in various countries
round the world since 1950. The peoples of China, India, Brazil and Russia (and
elsewhere in Asia and Africa) have an equal claim to improving through THEIR
living standards (albeit through hard work, rather than debt, as in the U.S).
This means that Americans should reduce their standards of living as a matter of
equity, not so? As has been pointed out by another poster, the US -- 5% of the
world's population -- consumes 25% of its petrol and causes 25% of the world's
pollution.
3. Samuelson observes :
"The United States has seen a prosperous global economy as a means TO
EXPANDING ITS POWER (my capitals), while China sees the global
economy in terms of guaranteed markets for its exports and raw materials -- as
the means to promoting domestic stability. ???
Whose aim, then, is the less supportable and less laudable, and the more
destabilising, to the world economy and to world geopolitics????
Surely America???s, rather than China???s!
Lazy thinking, Samuelson! So typical of Americans!
P.S. And no, I am not a card-carrying Commie.
Just a free-thinking American who wonders why America always has to find
external devils and demons when the demons and devils are within. Perhaps a
hangover from the Puritan tradition???
Comment: A grossly distorted, U.S centric viewpoint.
I have three points to make :
1. The greatest threat to the U.S. and world economy is the U.S. itself in the destabilising of
the world financial system through the credit crunch crisis and the huge U.S. trade
and budget deficit ??? all these the result of a country living beyond its
means through debt on cumsumer spending and feeding the militaryindustrial complex
As has been pointed out by another poster, the US -- 5% of the world's population -
consumes 25% of its petrol.
2. Samuelson mentions the improvement in living standards in various countries
round the world since 1950. The peoples of China, India, Brazil and Russia (and elsewhere
in Asia and Africa) have an equal claim to improving through THEIR living
standards (albeit through hard work, rather than debt, as in the U.S).
This means that Americans should reduce their standards of living as a matter of
equity, not so? (and stop causing 25% of the world???s pollution).
3. Samuelson observes :
???the United States has seen a prosperous global economy as a
means TO EXPANDING ITS POWER (my capitals), while China sees the
global economy ??? guaranteed markets for its exports and raw materials -- as the
means to promoting domestic stability. ???
Whose aim, then, is the less supportable and less laudable, and the more destabilising, to the world economy and to world geopolitics????
Surely not China's!
Lazy thinking, Samuelson! So typical of Americans!
Comment: The fear towards China is baseless. China has never invade other sovereign nations in history. China has always been the underdog. Whatever propserity China is having now is long overdue. The US should not meddle with China's affairs and should let history takes its own course because civilisations do collapse and change. China may be doing countefitings but this is benefitig the whole world by breaking the monopoly of a few individuals.Moreoever the US and the West have been plundering the wealth and resources of so many poor countries! Why point the finger towards China?Leave China alone..
Comment: Your artical is one of the typical example for the American self rightous mindset..Regarding your point of China's deliberating low rate of RMB vs US dollars. do you know the Yuen have already risen against US dollars by 20% in the past 18 months. And, do you know about , due to the substantial increasing value of Yuen agaginst US dolloars ten years beore, Japn hasn't yet emergied back from the recession caused by this.
t y et emergred back from the recession caused by this.
Comment: Comment:That China became and is so powerful,is the fault of the United States of America.
Question? Who opened the DOOR TO CHINA to the World's Economies ? Answer:The
United States of America, instead letting it be what it was, a backward communist dictatorship,
lead by the BIGGEST MASS MURDERED IN HISTORY, MAO TSE TUNG,who massacred by commado,
over 50 Million Chinese,more than Hitler and Stalin together..
China is an unlawful Country, especialized in Product Counterfating,Economic Cheating,Intellectual
Rights Robbery,Spying and Stealing of the most sensitive U.S. Military Secrets, in order to over take
the U.S., and acquire World Dominance at the expense of True Democracies; like The United
States of America.
Comment: That China became and is so much powerful is the fault of the United States of America.
Question ? Who opened the door to China to the World's Economies ? Answer:The UNited
States of America.
What is China ? Answer : A Communist Dictatorship, especialized in Economic Cheating,Product
Counterfating,Intellectual Rights Robbery, Spying and Stealing of the most sensitive U.S.Military
Secrets, with the end Goal of overtaking the United States of America, and controlling and subjugating
the entire World.
Comment: Alfa11's posting illustrates excatly the point that I made at the ending of my earlier posting (and that cooles also alluded to in his posting).
I think that a recent survey showed that 85% of Americans thought America was heading in the wrong direction.
When Americans focus on improving their education and thinking and begin looking within for the causes of America's decline rather than looking for external demons and devils like China, Russia, Cuba etc etc..., then perhaps SAmerica will begin heading in the right direction.
Comment: Let's continue to cast India as the fighter in containing China. India would be glad to answer the call.
Comment: Obviously it is Old USA man enduring the experience of Cold War. If jumping out of both USA and China and reviewing the history of human being, No for-ever rule rules for everyone. Human Being, society and World is always moving forward and can NOT stop somewhere. If the target in topic is NOT China but like GBR, France or others, you, as a spokerman standing for USA, will must have the similar sense.
The thing you talked about is not related to country actually, but people, man. Just releas which country you are and being as a man, review and feel what you think, what you worry, what you fear?
ridiculous, is it related to China. It is your fear.
Comment: Obviously it is Old USA man enduring the experience of Cold War. If jumping out of both USA and China and reviewing the history of human being, No for-ever rule rules for everyone. Human Being, society and World is always moving forward and can NOT stop somewhere. If the target in topic is NOT China but like GBR, France or others, you, as a spokerman standing for USA, will must have the similar sense.
The thing you talked about is not related to country actually, but people, man. Just releas which country you are and being as a man, review and feel what you think, what you worry, what you fear?
ridiculous, is it related to China. It is your fear.
Comment: The reason why The USA is prosperous, is because it has a modestly numbered population, perhaps. The USA, too, could have supported a billion people, as citizens, but there are no pressures of existence on farmlands, national parks,and the people lead relatively easy lives. I believe, that in a nation which has so many poor still, like in China, the Chinese currency cannot but be undervalued to the US Dollar. The US business community may teach the world how to do business, but ultimately it follows a business policy, in which all the business community compete with each other, to do better than each other. Are not the other nations doing the same, in their business dealings with other nations? America must be a manufacturing nation in the future, I mean a regular manufacturing nation. I have heard that manufacturing of goods for everyday use is sourced from other nations, and that Grumman, General Dynamics, and other defense corporations, are the manufacturing entities, who are strongly associated with manufacturing in The USA. This may be a mistake of my perception.
Comment: I couldn't have put it better. It can be argued that US is not the best trading partner imaginable, but China is by far the worst when size adjusted.
US should seek allies in Russia and Islamic World to contain China, not re-live the Cold War. At times it seems that Cold War is all of McCandidate experience.
Comment: Yes, Russia just invaded Georgia for us.
Comment: We have a symbiotic relationship with the Chinese. They subsidize our consumer lifestyle by selling us cheap junk at least cheaper than it would be if the value of their currency floated. They also buy our government bonds subsidizing our deficit spending. We export our technology and jobs to them while filling their treasury to overflowing.
Now the Chinese are buying up oil, resources, and our companies, and we are whining about it. This is the result of a number of administrations who were/are so enamored with free trade that they didn???t want to dirty their hands negotiating a level playing field. This is the giant sucking noise similar to the one Ross Perot was talking about.
The only war that is going to be fought over this is an economic one; a war we???ll loose as long as the administration is afraid to negotiate toe to toe with the Chinese.
Comment: The mentality of the west- them vs us- will one day bring us all to an unscheduled end. Power play maybe deeply engrained in the American or westerners' psyche, but I sure have not come across any other race that are so pre-occupied with this line of thnking. Is that the reason why the western world is in constant flux and conflicts/wars with other countries? The paranoia of the western world is more damaging & scarier to the survival of the mother-earth than anything else on earth. If ever armageddon does come true, we know who to point the finger to. Two world wars, then to cold war, now taking on Russia. Jeez, you in the west should have your heads seen to before you blow us all up!
Comment: Yes, you're right. The entire world, other than the west, are peace-loving, gracious and perfect people. Only the west is evil. Brilliant comments.
Comment: What would be the USA do if a diesel powered nuclear missle sub sat off the USA coast? This close to our shores would make it almost imposible to detect or give us the ability to prevent the missle form hitting its target.
China has the largest number or diesel powered subs in the world. A diesel/battery powered sub is harder to detect and makes less noise underwater than our best nuclear sub. Also the public and Green Peace has blocked the construction of underwater detection systems to detect these types of subs.
Comment: Huh? I thought the whole point of nuclear powered subs was that they were less detectable than diesel. A diesel powered sub gives off exhaust, which is very detectable. You could compress and store the exhaust, but that uses up a lot of the power you're generating. And I don't see how diesel would be any quieter than nuclear either.
And as far as what we'd do if a Chinese nuclear missile sub was off the coast? The same thing we'd do if a Russian sub was off the coast. Nothing. It's called a strategic defense system. They won't hit us because they know we'll retaliate and retaliate hard. Think mutually assured destruction. Besides, the range on those missiles is enough that being close to our shores is unnecessary and possibly a hinderance.
Comment: Egghead writers like this one really are useless. Instead of propagating all this doom and gloom, why not offer some suggestions on how to ward off all the trouble he foresees?
Comment: Maybe he is born in USA. So..I think he only focuses on his country' affairs. Come on....We also don't need to care what they said. We should focus on how they could think. If he can propagate, why can't we, Asians, propagate our values ?
Comment: Egghead writers like this one really are useless. Instead of propagating all this doom and gloom, why not offer some suggestions on how to ward off all the trouble he foresees?
Comment: IMO China is doing the same thing with natural resources as the USA has done with crude oil. Use the world supplies first then develop the remaining supplies in their own counrty. Their high profile projects all seem to be low polluting and long life. The worlds largest hydroelectric dam and now building numerious nuclear power generators, are examples. China has both a long term energy and natural resource policy that will take them into the next century,
Not bad for a country that 40 years ago was mainly bicycles and rice patties. Western people can say how bad the communist government is, but it has brought China into the 21st century. The people of China identify with their 5000 year old culture not their present governing body. IMO in 50 years when they have complete their modernization policies and repair their ecological damage. China will be the leading power of the world.
Comment: iF WE ARE SUPPOSED TO FEAR IT'S MILITARY MAYBE WE SHOULD RECONCIDER OUR ALLOWENCE OF THE ISREAILIES SELLING CHINA WEAPONS AGAINST THE ARMS BANN, THEY ARE NOW,TODAY BUYING FAR BETTER WEAPONS THAN WE USE! FEAR IS OUR OWN DESIGN, NOT THERES!
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