Are Obama and Pelosi dodging the life-and-death question?
Comment: The liberal media, including Newsweek and their patron Obama , have adopted a throw away society mentality including the throw away baby. God help us.
Comment: Obama's view of the future of America - Socialism which is the next step to Communism!!
Under socialism a ruling class of intellectuals, bureaucrats and social planners decide what people want or what is good for society and then use the coercive power of the State to regulate, tax, and redistribute the wealth of those who work for a living. In other words, socialism is a form of legalized theft.
The morality of socialism can be summed-up in two words: envy and self-sacrifice. Envy is the desire to not only possess another's wealth but also the desire to see another's wealth lowered to the level of one's own. Socialism's teaching on self-sacrifice was nicely summarized by two of its greatest defenders, Hermann Goering and Bennito Mussolini. The highest principle of Nazism (National Socialism), said Goering, is: "Common good comes before private good." Fascism, said
Mussolini, is "a life in which the individual, through the sacrifice of his own private interests??realizes that completely spiritual existence in which his value as a man lies."
Socialism is the social system which institutionalizes envy and self-sacrifice: It is the social system which uses compulsion and the organized violence of the State to expropriate wealth from the producer class for its redistribution to the parasitical class.
Despite the intellectuals' psychotic hatred of capitalism, it is the only moral and just social system.
Capitalism is the only moral system because it requires human beings to deal with one another as traders--that is, as free moral agents trading and selling goods and services on the basis of mutual consent.
Capitalism is the only just system because the sole criterion that determines the value of thing exchanged is the free, voluntary, universal judgement of the consumer. Coercion and fraud are anathema to the free-market system.
It is both moral and just because the degree to which man rises or falls in society is determined by the degree to which he uses his mind. Capitalism is the only social system that rewards merit, ability and achievement, regardless of one's birth or station in life.
Yes, there are winners and losers in capitalism. The winners are those who are honest, industrious, thoughtful, prudent, frugal, responsible, disciplined, and efficient. The losers are those who are shiftless, lazy, imprudent, extravagant, negligent, impractical, and inefficient. [What about the role of luckbeing in the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time? R. R. Pope}
Capitalism is the only social system that rewards virtue and punishes vice. This applies to both the business executive and the carpenter, the lawyer and the factory worker.
Comment: Obam"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking sides,' Obama said. 'There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression. And the Anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all. It should be swapped for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing.' If that were our anthem, then I might salute it.'
I am also speechless. Throw Obama off the train, before the USA gets derailed.
Comment: Angry convervative posters: Do me, yourself and the GOP Party a favor: Put just half the effort that you put into bashing Obama and the Democrats into praising the real values of the Republican Party and it's ticket if you want to get McCain elected. All of this peurile and acrimonious name calling and outright antagonization is not helping our cause, makes the conservative base look childish, unintelligent, frightened and self serving. It turns off Independent voters and so basically serves the Dem's interests. I'm sure you are venting, but it's NOT helping us.
Comment: Obama explains his objection to our National Anthem and Flag!!
Hot on the heels of his explanation for why he no longer wears a flag pin, presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama was forced to explain why he doesn't follow protocol when the National Anthem is played.
According to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171, During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.
"As I've said about the flag pin, I don't want to be perceived as taking sides,' Obama said. 'There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression. And the Anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all. It should be swapped for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song 'I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing.' If that were our anthem, then I might salute it.'
WHAAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!!! Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this could possibly be our next president. I, for once, am speechless.
He better take sides..........if he is not on the side of AMERICA he MUST NOT EVEN BE CONSIDERED for the office he is seeking. We do not need a man in office that will not salute the flag. The world knows how to sing, what they need to know is that the USA will defend what that flag stands for
Comment: Who can answer all these questions honestly and completely?
1. Which member of the Communist party was a mentor of Obama???s while he lived in Hawaii?
2. Which domestic terrorist was a close friend and associate of Obama???s, held a fund raiser for Obama, jumpstarted Obama???s career, and contributed to Obama???s campaign fund?
3. Which domestic terrorist appointed Obama to chair his charity, who Obama attended meetings with and shared in the presentations, and who bombed government buildings and said he was proud of it??
4. Which convicted real estate embezzler was close friends with Obama, helped Obama buy his mansion at a $300,000 discount, and who paid full price for a lot next to Obama???s mansion and sold Obama a strip at a great price to enlarge his yard?
5. Which convicted real estate embezzler received an ear mark of 14 million taxpayer dollars from Obama, held a political fundraiser for Obama, and donated to Obama???s political campaign fund??
6. Which convicted real estate embezzler was close friends with a real estate tycoon wanted by England, who had ties with Arafat and Saddam Hussein and who the Obama???s share a table with at a dinner??
7. For which convicted real estate embezzler did Obama work on one of his real estate projects?
8. Which university professor was a close friend of Obama???s that supported the PLO terrorists, was anti-Israel, and was the main supporter of Ahmadinejad???s visit to the U. S. and his university??
9. At which university professor???s retirement did Obama give a speech and praise the professor even though Obama knew he was a terrorist supporter?
10. Which church did Obama attend for 20 years whose minister preached hate for America and white people, and whose minister served as Obama???s personal and political advisor?
11. Which radical Catholic priest was a close friend and advisor to Obama?
12. Who is the leader of the Nation of Islam who praised Obama and whose million man march Obama participated in?
13. Who hired members of the Nation of Islam to work in his political offices?
Comment: I have always believed that birds of a feather will always flock together and if you CANNOT trust one of them, you can't trust any of them.
We all select our friends and associates by their character. If we do not agree with their character and how they lead their lives, then we will NOT accept them as our friends. I, personally, would never associate with anyone that was involved in any kind of criminal activities or racial activities, or involved in any kind of demonstrations against the country which I love with all my heart. I have too much self respect and pride to associate with these types of lowlife trash.
But, for some reason, we CANNOT and will NOT hold our President to these same standards and good judgement. It seems that a president who has 'no sex' with a young intern in our Oval Ofiice is beyond scrutiny and is still considered to be a GREAT president. It doesn't matter that his actions destroyed the view of the office of the presidency in the eyes of our friends around the world and destroyed the morals of all of our young people. The character of a president is just not important to the American people any longer.
Promises of 'hope and change' and empty rhetoric has replaced the need of a presidential candidate to have good judgemnet and good character. As long as they are shrewd enough to 'look presidential' and said what the POOR STUPID Americans want to hear, that is all that is important. The American people no longer need evidence, REAL evidence, that a candidate is capable of fulfilling his promises and is capable of protecting and serving the people. Talk is cheap, but the right talk has proven to be all that is required by the American people. Judgement, character, and experience is no longer required.
I have always believed that birds of a feather will always flock together and if you CANNOT trust one of them, you can't trust any of them. The American voter is willing to accept Obama at face value, without thoroughly researching his background. I would like to know how many Americans are willing to send our young men and women into combat overseas to fight terrorists, and, at the same time, are willing to accept a president who has been friends with domestic terrorists for years, and a president who is supported by Hamas and many, many other radical groups and leaders from around the world.
Just keep in mind that Obama would never be accepted in the FBI or CIA, but the American voters would elect him as their president and Commander-in-chief of their brave military men and women!!!! May God bless and have mercy on the souls of all the misguided voters!!!!
Comment: Obama, the one you can trust! The American people are like leeches on the government. They can no longer think for themselves. They can no longer take care of themselves. They need to be bottle fed and have their diapers changed. Obama is their savior, their Messiah. They can no longer fight for their freedoms. They must succumb to the beautiful words of promise and hope from Obama. He will make their lives great and trouble free. He will make us one world with no bounderies. Everyone will be equal. There will never be rich people or poor people again. We will all be middle class. That is where the world is headed and we will be the first to get there. All medical help and medicine will be socialized. The government will lead the people down the rosey path to hell. The people will serve the mighty leader, Obama. He controls all human activities and tells us were and when to go. He will tell us what to drive and when to drive. He will tell us where to set our thermostats in our houses. He will tell us the kind of food we must eat. He will create the perfect society, the perfect human race. We will never want again. He will provide everything we need. If we are without, he will make the neighbors share with us. He will insure that everyone will have something to eat and something to wear. He will be the guiding light to our future. We will all be happy and full of joy because Obama says we are. He will control our attitudes and provide us with hope that he will always make things better for us. Life could not be easier or better. He will look out for us. Put your full trust in him and he will deliver. He is the almighty, the Messiah, and the keeper of the people. We will get on out knees and worship him and the ground he walks on. We will never want anything again because he will make everything readily available to us. He has the answer to all our problems and our shortcomings. He will forgive us for our misdeeds and make us whole again. May our new God have mercy on our souls and bless our new kingdom; Obamanation! Always remember that you will have the Quran to fall back on, to read, and to enjoy! Always keep it near you and always look into the eyes of Obama in the pictures that will be provided to you. The pictures will always remind you who your savior is and to whom you will owe your great life. Teach your children and grandchildren to worship the man in the picure and they will always remain wholesome and happy! He will always show them the path to follow to become a great person like him! They must idolize him if they expect to be blessed. And, be sure to pat yourself on the back for choosing the Messiah and giving your children and grandchildren the security and wellness the Messiah has to offer. Always keep your Quran and his picture next to your bed and close to your heart and you will be happy forever! Brothers and sisters, I love you, and we will be together as one forever and ever!
Comment: THE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION CANDIDATE!
NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY HAS A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE BEEN GIVEN SUCH A FREE PASS BY THE PRESS AND JUST ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE!
I AM WAITING FOR A BLACK PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE TO MAKE IT ON HIS OWN MERIT.
COLIN POWELL COMES TO MIND!
Comment: Sarah Palin is a traitor to America and to her party.
Palins un-American activities
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican/index.html
Alaskan Independence Party chairwoman Lynette Clark talks about why she does not identify herself as an American, and about her kindred spirit Sarah Palin.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/10/alaska_secession/index.html
The pastor who clashed with Palin
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/15/bess/index.html
Troopergate Report Concludes Palin Abused Power. Full 263 Page report here???
http://download2.legis.state.ak.us/DOWNLOAD.pdf
Palins Attack On Obamas Patriotism Legitimizes Questions About her Association With Group Founded By America-Hating Secessionist
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/palins_attack_on_obamas_patrio.php
Palin And The Alaska Independence Party
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/the_alaska_independence_party.php
Comment: Have you heard the one about the Alaskan Governor who violated the public trust? Oh, it's a real kneeslapper!
Comment: They harassed her until she registered to vote six times!:
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=3145562&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/
Comment: You have touched on a potentially serious wound to Obama and company. He along with Biden, Pelosi and others have made a deal with the devil so to speak in their support of abortion. It's plain in their comments that they are not committed abortion rights supporters. The parsing of answers to questions suggest an attempt to get some measure of forgiveness from the God they claim to believe in so fervently. At the same time culling the favor of NARAL and the voting block that goes with Roe vs Wade supporters. I wonder If they comtemplate their future afterlife at all.
Comment: "Not all Democrats agree with Mr. Frank that such policies are off-limits to criticism. Last week Rep. Artur Davis of Alabama said in a statement: 'Like a lot of my Democratic colleagues I was too slow to appreciate the recklessness of Fannie and Freddie. I defended their efforts to encourage affordable homeownership, when in retrospect, I should have heeded the concerns raised by their regulator in 2004. Frankly, I wish my Democratic colleagues would admit when it comes to Fannie and Freddie, we were wrong.'
"Mr. Davis is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus."
'Rank snobbery'
Camille Paglia, who supports Sen. Barack Obama, has nothing but scorn for the way the media has treated Sarah Palin.
"The mountain of rubbish poured out about Palin over the past month would rival Everest. What a disgrace for our jabbering army of liberal journalists and commentators, too many of whom behaved like snippy jackasses," Miss Paglia writes at www.salon.com.
"The bourgeois conventionalism and rank snobbery of these alleged humanitarians stank up the place. As for Palin's brutally edited interviews with Charlie Gibson and that viper, Katie Couric, don't we all know that the best bits ended up on the cutting-room floor? Something has gone seriously wrong with Democratic ideology, which seems to have become a candied set of holier-than-thou bromides attached like tutti-frutti to a quivering green Jell-O mold of adolescent sentimentality."
Comment: "ARE THE DEMOCRATS DODGING ABORITON?" What a headline? Democrats are not pregnant. No need for abortion. But you may want to look closer at the Republicans. If you find them dodging abortion in favor of unwanted or forced marriage, please report it.
Comment: Fundamental Christianity does not support the pro-life argument. According to Genesis, the holy spirit enters the body on God's terms, not on science's. The notion that an embryo has a soul just because of some cellular interaction is a slap in the face to God. Genesis clearly separates the physical being from the spiritual one in no uncertain terms. The physical body is dust, and is only of consequence when it is inhabited by the Holy Spirit. This whole notion that pro-choice is a contradiction to God's will is just another example of "pick and choose" Christians not really understanding the Bible and the nuanced context in which it was designed to be read. I can certainly understand someone defending an embryo on some personal moral ground, but there is absolutely no foundation upon which to make a biblical argument. In fact, making a biblical argument almost amounts to blasphemey, since it takes away God's hand in the creation of a human soul.
Comment: The Democratic platform will stop the disasterous economic and education policies of the last 8 years that have brought an increase in abortions during the Bush years. Fighting poverty, making health care available to all, and age appropriate sex education will accomplish more than self-righteous calls for re-criminalization ever will.
Comment: Jose52: You and others of your ilk are mindless conservative automotons. "Above my pay grade" means that only God can truly determine when life begins...the fact that you think you should be able to determine that fact is blasphemy.
This country's reputation and economy are already destroyed, thanks to the man you put in office in each of the last two elections. We're going to fix that.
Comment: Obama is avoiding the issue and recently claimed he is Pro-Life. His lies are mounting and if elected, he will change the fabric of this country. He will try to spend and spend to change this economy. He is talking benefits; while the country is on the brink of collapse. He will be the BIG Brother to stop the Right's radio speech with the fairness doctrine. Then he will start with REPARATIONS to all blacks. His Marxist policies will destroy this country and our economy.
Comment: The Antichrist!:
When George Soros failed to obtain the election of his candidate, John Kerry, in 2004, he brooded for a while, even said he might get out of politics altogether, but he just couldn???t stop himself. He has stated publicly that he wishes to burst the ???bubble of American supremacy,??? because he says our preeminence in the world is a detriment to global ???equilibrium.??? So far, he has failed, but he keeps on trying.
And Mr. Soros has made no secret either of the fact that he sees the shortest way to effect political shake-ups, what he terms ???regime changes,??? is through very difficult economic conditions.
America has not yet felt the full force of Soros style economic shock treatment. But others have.
Soros made his first billion in 1992 by shorting the British pound with leveraged billions in financial bets, and became known as the man who broke the Bank of England. He broke it on the backs of hard-working British citizens who immediately saw their homes severely devalued and their life savings cut drastically in comparative worth almost overnight.
When the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997 threatened to spread globally, George Soros was right in the thick of it. Soros was accused by the Malaysian Prime Minister of causing the collapse with his monetary machinations, and he was branded in Thailand as an ???economic war criminal??? who ???sucks the blood from the people.??? Right in the middle of this crisis, Soros dashed off his book, The Crisis of Global Capitalism, which demanded a ???third way??? toward economic stability.
Wake up, America, before it is too late!!!!
Comment: you're telling me that you would rather take away a living womans right to choose to give a parasitic being, it cannot live on its own which makes it a parasite, the chance to live, no matter how traumatic it might be to the family? I just cant justify giving rights to something that cannot sustain life on its own. Giving away a womans right to choose is regressive, you should get out of other peoples business and focus on your own life.
Comment: You know, your logic sounds vaguely similar to that of the Nazis and their justification for killing disabled persons. They were parasites that "drained" societies resources because they can't sustain life on their own. What you've basically said is that if you get in a car accident and are in the hospital and are only able to live for several weeks (or months) because of machines being hooked up to you, but after that you'd be ok on your own - your basically saying that during that period of time, because you can't support life on your own that you have no human rights and I could walk right up and kill you because well, you don't have a right to live?? What a crock! And they are not parasites because they rely on the mother. I have news for you - newborns can't support their own life either. If they are left alone for a prolonged period of time, they CANNOT feed themselves and will die without assistance. I guess they're parasites too and we should just kill them if they annoy us huh? People like you with your narcissistic self centered me me me view of the world make me sick. I had tol hold back my gag reflex after reading your comment so I didn't spew my guts out onto my computer.
Bottom line is your logic magnifies why, religious beliefs aside, abortion is a danger to free nations and civil rights, because it claissifies one group of humans as being without rights, which opens the door up for further civil rights discriminiations. I'm not saying abortion should be outlawed in it's entirety. There are always exceptions to every rule - I'm not an extremist. But innocent blood cries from the ground of this nation daily and we are GUILTY of murder especially if the embryo/fetus is far enough along to feel emotion, pain, hunger, and other human traits. Some states can charge you with homicide if you attack a pregnant woman and the fetus dies. Why is there a double standard??
Comment: Dems choose Obama in thunderous acclamation
Yahoo News by David Espo, AP Special Correspondent Wed Aug 27, 7:18 PM ET
Clinton's call for Obama to be approved by acclamation ??? midway through the traditional roll call of the states ??? was the culmination of a painstaking agreement worked out between the two camps to present a unified front.
My commentary:
So, democrats, in order to portray a false unification, schemed to allow politics to trump the democratic process.
And they are insulted when people don???t refer to them as the democrat(ic) party!
Yes, the truth is offensive to the democrat party!
Comment: There is nothing un-democratic by a voice vote. It is done in Congress a lot of the time. I am sorry you were disapointed that no one voted "ney"
Comment: BAMBI BUILDS BUCHENWALD
BAMBI stands up and say's, I am the one who voted yes to the born alive bill-I was the chairman and voted yes to save the children-he is a liar .He was question on this bill and his day camp said no, that bill was not the same. All three were the
same and BAMBI votes to inject multiculturalism into the U.S. with all diabolizing elements.
The Socialists knows the Bible better than America when they strive for, ??? A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIdbYjmbFzo
http://www.nrlc.org/ObamaBAIPA/ObamaCoverup.html
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=p7zsxXnNldU
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SAgu0gUODKU&feature=related
IS AMERICA THAT ELITIST, THAT WE CAN SCOLD HITLER FOR WHAT HE
HAS DONE TO HUMAN LIFE, WHILE WE HERE IN AMERICA SLAUGHTER LIFE IN THE VERY
PLACE WHERE IT BEGINS?
WHAT IS THE MODUS THAT GRIPS A FEMALE//POLITICIAN TO COMMITT//SANCTION THE ACT OF HUMAN ABORTION?
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/Induced-abortion-results-in-years-of-trauma--6221-1/
Comment: BAMBI BUILDS BUCHENWALD
BAMBI stands up and say's, I am the one who voted yes to the born alive bill-I was the chairman and voted yes to save the children-he is a liar .He was question on this bill and his day camp said no, that bill was not the same. All three were the
same and BAMBI votes to inject multiculturalism into the U.S. with all diabolizing elements.
The Socialists knows the Bible better than America when they strive for, ??? A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIdbYjmbFzo
http://www.nrlc.org/ObamaBAIPA/ObamaCoverup.html
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=p7zsxXnNldU
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SAgu0gUODKU&feature=related
IS AMERICA THAT ELITIST, THAT WE CAN SCOLD HITLER FOR WHAT HE
HAS DONE TO HUMAN LIFE, WHILE WE HERE IN AMERICA SLAUGHTER LIFE IN THE VERY
PLACE WHERE IT BEGINS?
WHAT IS THE MODUS THAT GRIPS A FEMALE//POLITICIAN TO COMMITT//SANCTION THE ACT OF HUMAN ABORTION?
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/Induced-abortion-results-in-years-of-trauma--6221-1/
Comment: Abortion is not an issue and only takes away from the important issues that are wrecking this country, the middle and working class and the economy as a whole. Abortion is a woman's choice and should only be a medical option early in the pregnancy unless for dire medical reasons. The woman will suffer the consequences. Abortion is an easy cause to be involved in because it involves no real involvement, people picture a beautiful baby, the feel they are saving this beautiful child and it stops there. If they are really interested in helping children, they should volunteer to help single pregnant mothers, pregnant teenagers, and child abuse groups, big brother/sister groups, teen runaway groups, the list is endless-but that's too hard. There are millions of abused children in this country, not enough children and youth caseworkers, not enough healthy foster homes, tons of addict mothers with babies, tons of mentally ill mothers with babies - are you helping them? Meanwhile, people are losing their health insurance like crazy, cannot afford health or dental care or medication, utility prices are skyrocketing (electricity and natural gas), school taxes are rising, small business owners are losing their businesses, people cannot pay their bills and are losing their homes and entire way of life, trying to put a kid through college is horrendous financially and the mess in the middle east will never end. THESE ARE THE REAL ISSUES. And these are the issues that are ruining my life and the life of working and middle class people, even upper middle class people who rely on customers for their business. Whenever Republicans feel they are losing an election, they bring up two things: abortion and guns. It is so transparent and idiotic, give me a break. When you are all losing your homes and health insurance, are you going to really give a damn about abortion?
Comment: I love the logic of this. If a child is abused, or might be abiused, the best thing for everybody concerned is to slaughter that child from the start. If a child might have a tough life, if he might be unloved, if he might stub his toe-- off with his head!
The truth is, most children who are abused don't end up killing themselves.
So why should their mothers kill them?
Comment: First of all you are confusing life with a potential life. You are aware that fully 20% of all pregnacies abort sponteaneously.
Comment: What is your point? Abortion is not an issue. It is a difficult private matter for the parents (and possibly their doctor and/or religious leader) to contemplate upon. No government has a place in regulating for or against. Get off your religious high horse and quit trying to ram your faith down everyone elses throats.
Comment: leighjamesleigh -
You claim that Abortion is not an issue.
Obviously you are wrong - don't you see the number of comments and replies on this website?
Didn't you hear the questions posed to Obama and McCain at the Saddleback forum?
It was Obama that wanted to court the Evangellical Christians in this election, and obviously they consider it to be an issue.
Abortion would be much less of an issue if women who consider themselves to be pro-choice bothered to CHOOSE to minimize the chances of them ever becoming pregnant if they did not want tp become pregnant. Are they ignorant regarding the human reproductive process? Is it somehow a great mystery to them that if they engage in wanton and unprotected sex, that they risk the chance of becoming pregnant?
Are they mentally so retarded that they cannot associate having sex with possibly becoming pregnant?
And if they somehow do get pregnant, they can exercise their right to free choice by CHOOSING to respect vulnerable defenseless human life, and ensuring that the infant is allowed to be born.
Comment: You act like there isn't some retarded guy in this scenario, that by getting pregnant its all the womans fault. And who says they aren't protecting themselves? Guys take none of the blame for a woman getting pregnant and its half their fault.
Comment: And these are the issues that are ruining my life and the life of working and middle class people, even upper middle class people who rely on customers for their business. Whenever Republicans feel they are losing an election, they bring up two things: abortion and guns. It is so transparent and idiotic, give me a break. When you are all losing your homes and health insurance, are you going to really give a damn about abortion?
Whenever democrats feel that they are loosing the election they place blame on others instead of making people, business and government responsible for their own actions. These problems will not go away simple because we pay for them ???. It will only encourage more people to be irresponsible??? look at what welfare reform brought about when a (Republican Bob Dole) suggested that we make those who file for welfare give the names to the child???s father in order to receive help. Of course bill Clinton adopted this idea ??? and the result is a reduction in teenage pregnancies and filing of welfare.
Comment: Meanwhile, people are losing their health insurance like crazy, cannot afford health or dental care or medication, utility prices are skyrocketing (electricity and natural gas), school taxes are rising, small business owners are losing their businesses, people cannot pay their bills and are losing their homes and entire way of life, trying to put a kid through college is horrendous financially and the mess in the middle east will never end. THESE ARE THE REAL ISSUES.
What causes these REAL ISSUES? Risky behaviors always drive up the cost of health care, medication, insurance and taxes???. If you smoke your insurance is higher???. If you drive recklessly or in the age group that drives recklessly you insurance rates go up???. If you engage in a certain lifestyle your insurance rates goes up??? If you are underage, don???t work and engage in the above activities then those who don???t engage in such activities will have to pay for their behavior. So should we reward does who do wrong and don???t want to change their behavior then turn around and punish those who do right because others aren???t responsible enough for their own actions? Health insurance goes up from frivolous law suits, fraud, and shady lawyers exploiting victims. I say we regulate the FDA that doesn???t allow for alternative treatments (herbs and natural healing remedies) to be allowed to patients??? they insist on taking 10 years of research and $300 million dollars in funds to be spent to say that medicine are treatments for diseases and yet they don???t treat them???. This drives up the cost since companies have no other choice to raise the price of medication in order to recoup their expenses. What about regulating the house and banking industries that exploit the poor with: Interest only loans, Variable rates, Reverse mortgage. What about putting a cap on lawsuit settlements against doctors? What about making people who don???t graduate from high school pay extra taxes for each year they didn???t complete? I guarantee the dropout rate would reduce drastically??? What about putting single moms to work in order to receive government care? My whole point is to make people responsible for their actions!
Comment: Comment: Abortion is not an issue and only takes away from the important issues that are wrecking this country, the middle and working class and the economy as a whole. Abortion is a woman's choice and should only be a medical option early in the pregnancy unless for dire medical reasons.
So what is more important than saving the life of a person? Do you know that most abortions don???t occur for the reasons that you names above??? as a matter of fact ??? less than 1% of abortions occur for medical reasons and that includes: rape and incest???.
The woman will suffer the consequences. Abortion is an easy cause to be involved in because it involves no real involvement, people picture a beautiful baby, the feel they are saving this beautiful child and it stops there.
Women suffer the consequences of abortion daily???. Nearly a billion dollars is made in the United States through the exploitation of women??? Involvement goes beyond getting involved in the cause to stop abortion, it goes into the therapy women receive to relieve the guilt of killing their child as well???
If they are really interested in helping children, they should volunteer to help single pregnant mothers, pregnant teenagers, and child abuse groups, big brother/sister groups, teen runaway groups, the list is endless-but that's too hard. There are millions of abused children in this country, not enough children and youth caseworkers, not enough healthy foster homes, tons of addict mothers with babies, tons of mentally ill mothers with babies - are you helping them?
Helping goes beyond monetary handouts???. It goes into teaching women to respect themselves and not let anyone exploit them through sex without marriage. Also teaching them to make good moral choices that will lead to a more prosperous life???. Instead of subjecting themselves to poverty, disease and abuse???. All of the conditions you mention are the fruit of peoples choices and what I???m advocating is to get to the root cause of the problem???. And that is overall respect for females.
Comment: Thank you, Leigh.
Comment: Excellent post. You forgot one of the issues Repubs turn to, though...terror! Abortion, guns, and terror...the holy trinity of the Republican party.
Comment: I forgot you dems turn to homosexuallity, gun-control and marxism.................... the un-holy trinity of the demo(n)crats
Comment: Here's an example Skypoint, prove me wrong.
Comment: The issue they are dodging is much more fundamental than abortion.Their crazed supporters in pressure groups like Planned Parenthood make no distinction between abortion and infanticide and Democrats like Obama are their prisoner.The idea that a baby who has survived the abortion process should be denied medical attention or have its brain suctioned out is repulsive and so are the Democrats who promote these atrocities
Comment: Crazed supporters...like those who kill doctors, becuase "god" told them to. You people need to keep your religion off of other peoples bodies.
Comment: dark,
Jean didn't mention people who kill doctors, God, or religion for that matter.
Comment: My apologies.. It's Joan.
Comment: Ok... the point of this article was that people like you stop using the straw man argument that the pro-life side is all about religion and that you start engaging the actual pro-life arguments that are both scientific and philosophical (reason based). So please keep this discussion on target.
Comment: Will someone on the left offer a civilized discourse on the logic of abortion? Please, no name calling about the religous right, or war mongering right wingers.... PLEASE tell me why you believe abortion is ok. Please, take your arguement beyond "it's a woman's body.' A pregnency is such a special circumstance that while yes, a womans body is obviously involved you have to balance that with the fact that a new human life has a stake too. And while yes, sometimes the life of the mother is in danger, that is honestly not usually the case.
So what I'm asking is that you ignore the instances of rape, life of the mother , etc... because frankly most abortions aren't performed for these types of situations. Tell me why an abortion should be legal when the sole reason for not carrying a child is inconvienence, which I believe is the reason for most abortions. Tell me, again in a civilized manner, why you believe the right to live is overshadowed by what happens to be convienent for the mother at that time.
I'm not trying to be a smart aleck. It's just something I can't understand. Tell me how you look at this.
Comment: Let me counter your argument and say that not all abortions are carried out in a frivolous manner. And yes it is a matter which should be considered in a serious fashion. But again this country must not only have freedom of religion but freedon from religion. BTW, speaking of the supposed capricious attitude towards the unborn,how about how cavalier these same people are about the lives of the already living. Seemingly the concern ends at the womb. If you are so concerned about life then start with a more concerted effort to help those who are already here. Smacks of hypocrisy.
Comment: Hi DaveDiane, I have read the posts below, it seems just-askin wants to fight. You seem like me, abortion has never been an option. My concern is for the girl who finds herself pregent and afriad that she will be "punished" for allowing that to happen or for having sex before marriage and does not know where to turn to. The woman who already has two or three children and works two jobs to keep a roof over their heads, food in their stomachs, and clothes on their backs, and feeling another child would just be to much to deal with at that time in her life.
I know this is only two arguments for abortions rights. But remember, a woman desprite will find anyway to have the abortion, which could also risk her life as well.
Comment: The woman who already has two or three children and works two jobs to keep a roof over their heads, food in their stomachs, and clothes on their backs, and feeling another child would just be to much to deal with at that time in her life. (Maybe they should consider using birth control or multiple forms to avoid such things when life is as stressful for them as you indicate),
MAybe
Comment: Also, abortion being us as birth control is totally wrong.
Comment: Ah, the ever-present concern troll. Why can't we just all get along? Sob!
Comment: "Concern Troll"? So why didn't you just say you had nothing relevant to say?
Thanks for the comment. It added so much to the debate. Apparently, at least from your perspective, abortion cannot be defended on intellectual grounds. Of course, with a comment like that I suspect you would have difficulty defending anything on intellectual grounds.
I doubt abortion CAN be defended on intellectual grounds. You certianly aren't up to it. I've had enough of the sophmoric arguements from people like yourself. Sorry, I just happen to enjoy a good debate. I find the name calling to be childish. Since you can't debate like a grown up, you should just quit. Go to bed. It's past your bedtime and you have to go to school tomorrow.
Comment: Oh, and your insult is lame.
Comment: Well Just Askin, I can see you have been busy posting. Since whatever school you attended apparently failed you, let me explain what the problem is . You haven't posted anything that wasn't an insult. You try to win arguments not by intellect but by changing the subject. This is called sophistry. It's a term that comes from the ancient Greek Sophist who didn't care about the content of the argument so much as winning the argument. It's why anyone with a shred of intellect finds you tiresome.
I've read your various comments. I'm guessing you aren't out of your teens. (If you are, don't take my error as a win for you. Believe me, it isn't a compliment) If you are in your teens, don't waste your life being a fool. No one will respect you. If you believe something, at least learn to defend it. People may not agree with you, but they'll respect you.
Comment: Socrates--a little known Greek philosopher--was considered a sophist. But you do have to be careful, 'cause the authorities that be might make your drink the hemlock poison for corrupting the youth.
Comment: Is there a rule in the new conservative debate book that says? -- To disarm your opponent, try to call them, boy or a teen. If that doesn't work, then suggest that they were inherentlystupid and did poorly in school. Question their reading comprehension. But if all fails, there's always the trusty "STUPID LIBERALS."
Hey some of us have learned a bit from the tactics of Rush Limbaugh and the talking heads at Fox News. Things have definitely changed from the days of Bill Buckley and Firing Line.
And I see your high school diploma and raise you my Ph.D.
And in parting, here's my final reply to your question. Read some books. There are plenty of discussions of the ethics of abortion from both sides in books you can find in your bookstore or library. Try reading some books that don't come from your Christian bookseller if you want a reasoned defense of the pro-choice side. I have done this and carefully considered the arguments on both sides.
You should know that coming to a blog for an answer is a mistake. Blogs are mostly heat and very little light.
Comment: Still waiting for your reasoned response.
Comment: You're going to wait a long time.
Comment: And as to belated birth control, does this mean that you believe in contraception or family planning? I'm guessing as a devout Catholic, you think contraception of any kind is against the will of God. The Catholic Church says you can space out your babies, but why shouldn't a women be pregnant from the time of her marriage until she reaches menopause or dies from childbirth? If she does not maximize the number of offspring, why isn't this being selfish? Can she do some because she is sore from the last birth, or the family is having difficulty making ends meet? The fact that there are obviously far more babies that could be than actually are, isn't this out of choice of a woman and her partner? How can you defend this kind of selfish choice when it means that a child that could have a life (or be adopted by the childless), does not even get a chance to exist?
Comment: Here's some parting questions for you. In some cases, a fertilized egg/zygote can develop into a partial hydatiform mole, which in some cases develops into a choriocarcinoma, an aggressive form of cancer. Should any tumors that result be left to grow and propagate until they take the life of the mother? If not, why not? Sure they may be trisomic in terms of their genetics, but so are fetuses with Down syndrome. Is the difference between a human person and human tissue defined by whether or not you have partial or complete trisomy?
Or what about fetus in fetu or parasitic twins, in which one embryo gets enveloped by the other and ends up in some body cavity? Should the enclosed twin be left in the other, even though it does not develop any further? What if it is located intracranially (and this does happen)?
What about ectopic pregnancies, which account for as high as 1% of all pregnancies? Keep the fetus alive at all costs, even if it means the death of the mother? Or is death in childbirth just a necessary outcome of the curse bestowed upon women by God for Eve's behavior in the Garden of Eden.
How about tetratomas, which are NOT the result of conception but derived from abnormal germ cells? Fetiform tetratomas can generate not just tissues like hair, teeth, etc., but also complete limbs, torsos, and primitve hearts that beat. They are not derived from embryos, but they sure look like the parts of a fetus. What about these? Are they just baby-like? We know from animal cloning that every single cell in your body has the potential to form a human person, give the right cues. The frighteneing possibility (as some physicians belive) is that fetus in fetu could actually be a highly developed teratoma. Let's hope that's not true.
Sure (apart from ectopic pregnancies) these are rare ane extreme cases (but not as rare as you may think). If the preservation of human life (from the moment of conception) is the greatest good, with absolutely no exceptions, then how do you deal with these cases? If you think everything is simple, then there is no room for dialogue. Just reply with "STUDPID LIBERAL."
Comment: DaveDiana,
Unfortunately, you'll likely get a response from just askin, but it won't be reasoned. After all, what can we expect from someone who 'defecated' on another poster for having a different opinion?
The boy is irrelevant.
Comment: Hey humorless. It's a joke DA, see."Triumph the Insult Comic Dog." Buy yourself a clue when you get some money.
Though you still haven't said whether you think the poster that inspired the comment is right when he insinuates that "Obama is in league with Osama." How should I interpret that? An expedient non-answer?
Comment: The usual liberal spin.... what you said is not what you said.
Comment: So you can't answer a simple, direct question. Is the post "Obama + Osama" something you agree with or not? Is it relevant or not?
Comment: You haven't seen any of my posts that indicate that, now have you?
Comment: But then do they meet your criterion for relevancy? Or is to "call BS" just something you save for liberals.
Comment: You don't want a debate, you want a pulpit to preach from.
Comment: Just tell me why abortion should remain legal. It's that simple. You mistake my call for being civilized for being weak or preachy. No, it's just this; I'm 44 years old, married with two children, one autistic. (I mention that because I want you to realize I fully understand what it is like to have a difficult child. I wouldn't wish an autistic child on my worst enemy, but I love that childas much as anyone.) For the short time I've been looking on online I've yet to see anyone offer anything resembling a reasoned arguement. I'm dieing to see one. People spout vitriol to each other that they'd never think of saying to someones face. To hide behind a screen name and do that is cowardly.
You've posted 3 times andsaid nothing relevant. You bore me. Do you have anything to say about abortion and the Democratic party that has any type of gravitis?
Comment: No, I won't play your game. You set up the debate with a long preamble that basically defines any argument for choice as emanating from selfishness (inconvenience for the mother). You dismiss any legitimate medical concerns as off the table. Basically your asking people to respond to one of those "when did you stop beating your wife" questions. Thanks, but no thanks. If you want a glimpse of my reasoning, try and read further down in this blog.
And life is hard all around. You have no idea the problems my family has faced over the years. You have my sympathy for your situation. I have worked with disabled children and know how challenging it can be.
Comment: I've got to go. Seriously, I think the number of casual abortions in this country is insane. Doesn't this concern anyone else? And to get back on topic, why is the Democratic party so hostile to the pro-life side? It seems we all need to be open minded so long as we agree with their side. So much for tolerance.
Comment: We are hostile because of the religious right because we are tired of you bible thumpers pushing YOUR beliefs on us. If you dont beleive in abortions then dont have one.
Comment: Then quit asking us to fund them through the government... Planned Parenthood receive at least $300 milllion in tax payers dollars...
Comment: I dont think its unreasonable to assume most abortions are performed for the sake of convienence. Why does that put the entire arguement off the table?
And no, Catholics as a whole are not pro choice. You posted that elswhere. Your making statements as if they are fact. And please, feel free to defend abortions performed for the convienence of the mother. If you have data that states those type of abortions are NOT the majority then I ask you to share it. Since by percentage it is the most common type, then why would it be off the table?
Comment: Here's the path you want me to follow:
1. Abortions are done for convenience.
2. Anything done for convenience is done for selfish reasons.
3. Defend selfishness.
Since 3 is indefensible, then leap to the assumption that 1 and 2 are proven. Add the corollary that "Selfish behavior should be legislated against," and voila, you have the answer that you seek. You beliefs are validated..
I'm not sure where you got the idea I think all Catholics are pro-choice. I don't have any opinion on that.
Once again, thanks, but no thanks.
Comment: Oprahma; the great baloney slicer. He will say, do, promise, zig, zag, jump up and down to get himself elected. He doesn't care what issue or what other person he has to 'throw under the bus' to get himself elected. Oprahma supporters obviously are easily tricked. Gee, wonder why we haven't heard or gotten any video tapes from that slimball osama bin laden in the last several months...let me think....
Comment: You're a great American. A real standup guy.
Comment: For me to poop on.
Comment: Great... the twelve year old just dropped in. Always the skunk at the picnic.
Comment: Fight feces with feces--that's what I say.
Hey, and your mom is still yelling for you to get off the computer and take out the trash.
Comment: So you really are twelve... you're reduced to using mom jokes...
Pathetic.
Comment: Hey Skypoint, Skyler, or Skyline, or whatever your name is--maybe you should call for help from your buddy Jim. He seemed to feel you were in need of help last night. He obviously thought you were foundering.
Oh, and the age insult--it's so freaking devastating. What possible reply could I make?
Now that's what I call pathetic--and completely harmless.
Comment: And so now you've reduced yourself further to reinventing usernames...
Whatever.
Comment: Don't you hate it when people play the game by the same rules that you use? Man that's so unfair. But hey, it's not too late to sound the call for reinforcements.
The new conservatives (I do have to differentiate them from the Goidwater Republican conservatives I respect) always claim to own the moral high ground, but they constantly take the low road. You can deny it all you want, but whoomp, there it is.
Nice double-standard, SP, but we're wise to your ways. No more Marquess of Queensberry rules. if it's a street fight you want, that's what you'll have. Rhetorically speaking, of course.
Harry S said it best: "I never gave anybody hell! I just told the truth and they thought it was hell."
Comment: just_askin.. though you think you own this board by way of your double standard, you don't.
Once again, you're just angry that someone has actually called you on your own BS!
Give yourself a break and stop whining.
Comment: Early on there was a discussion of the issue addressed in the article--but it quickly became apparent that anyone arguing for choice was chacterized as either stupid or evil. And abortion and the Iraq war are part of the same issue--just ask the Catholics (or is the Pope ignorant when he has made that argument?). Many of the protests that preceded the invasion of Iraq were driven by Catholic clergy or lay people who are most assuredly pro-choice. You may compartmentalize the issues, but not everybody does.
And as to calling out BS ... why not apply your mad skillz to the half-baked and irrelevant Obam-Osama posts on this blog. Do you agree with the post at the beginning of this thread that Obama is in league with Osama? Or any of the other I-hate-Obama posts, how are these relevant. You feel obligated to chastise others for being off-topic, so why do these get a bye? Or do they indeed make a substantive contribution to this debate? If so, explain.
You do that and I'll take you seriously. I do give you props for being pro-choice with the caveat you state. But Jim et al. apparently gave you a pass on that because you did not directly contradict their assertion that a human person is fully present in the zygote formed at the point of conception. You just said you didn't, but anyone who actually did explain their reasoning faced the full fury of pro-life contingent.
Nuf said.
Comment: I agree, "Nuf said".
You actually became irrelevant when you 'defecated' on another poster for having a different opinion.
Comment: I take that (and your other behavior) as a tacit agreement with the person having a different opinion.
Comment: Just, why do you want to fight?
