Sorry, Pal, You're Rich

Wealth is a state of mind. But consider this situation. My wife and I grew up in lower middle class households. We borrowed a great deal of money to go to college. We both went to medical school and borrowed every penny to do that. Residency and Fellowship were years of further 'delayed gratification' during which we began to pay back loans. We took loans to pay back loans (and probably qualified for food stamps, etc., but didn;t feel it was right to do so).

Along the way, we had three kids whie in medical school and in residency. We needed child care, send them to private schools (including preschool) and vowed never to leave them with the debt we were experiencing. They all went to private colleges that we are still paying off!

We don't live in a McMansion, make reasonably good income-- my wife is now 'retired' but in our late 50s, have never done --or be able to afford--many of the things I know others have. After taxes, paying mortgage (refinanced several times to pay for educational expenses) and continuing to pay off loans, I don't particularly feel rich.

In the end, it may not be what you earn, but what you have left after expenses.

I second Cruel Aarony, and let me name some names:

NYCLiving, what a goddamn whiner! I"ve done what you've done, including the loans. On your path, what will your income and expenses be in 10 years? Yes, $500k/year and whateve-you-please. You are the very definition of rich. And yes, it took some pain and sacrifice. I guess you expected it to be free of pain....?
Reg61: You should pay progressive tax rates because as your income rises and your essential expenses (I don't mean premium cable) are paid, you have more disposable income that people poorer than you. AND BECAUSE you make more money in a rich economy because the GOVERNMENT paid for your roads, pays for your public safety (including for your business AND your home), pays to educate your employees and your customers, and when you retire, will pay your retirement and medical. Did you think it was all @#%$#%@$#^$%&free? You are taking more benefits and so you pay more.

Now the rest of you rich whiners. Try, try try to imagine this: You are at home. You have two children. Your family income is $60,000 and you have a standard employee medical plan with 10% co-pays. Your talented ten year old daughter wants to pursue her dream of being a doctor, but you can't afford private schools. Your 12 year old son dropped a baseball bat on his foot and he needs two surgeries and a 6 months of therapy to run again. To cover the co-pays, you need to sell your second car, and then take the bus to work every day.. And you are 45, and have 20 years to work to pay for retirement, but your company recently laid off 70% of its workers over 50.

Can you imagine yourself in that position? And you want tthat guy to pay the same tax rate as you?

Now - do y

A thought provoking article. Yes, I'm one of the 'whiners' who makes more than $250,000 - and I know I am not rich. I'm not complaining...at least not until an article like this one comes up. Three daughters in college - two private, one public - NO financial help, sooo - $100K per year gone. Does it bother me that those making under $50K can have their children in premier private schools attend for free? - not really. They should. Does it bother me that those earning less than $35K pay almost no income tax ?- no, not really. It is appropriate that these benefits are in place to level the playing field. But in the greater Philadelphia area, with Philly city payroll tax of 4%, high state, property, and taxes insurance rates, not to mention a fairly large mortgage to live in the 'so called' luxury of a 2,600 square foot house, I sure don't feel rich. Oh, and because I get no fixed pension that many who in the $35-50K range trade off for, I put 20% away so I can afford to continue to live where I live as the taxes et. al. continue to go up after I retire.
I would tell you that most in the $250K -$350K salary range consider themselves middle class, maybe upper middle class. I have no boat, never mind a yacht, I have no summer home at the Jersey shore, my vacations are relatively modest. I drive a Chrysler, my wife an SUV gas guzzler we will need to trade, and my daughters share a 2000 Jetta when they are home from college. My life is not appreciably different than my neighbors who make up to $150K less than I do, primarily due to my need to save for retirement. I have no doubt that my reward will be to have folks like the author of this article say I should be ashamed of collecting social security retirement benefits, and that I should get less than those who made and/and or saved less.
The only real measure of one's wealth that can be used to classify them as wealthy is their asset wealth, not their income...unless they are making $1 Million or more. The challenge is to get more people into the higher salaries, not to punish those who have climbed to do so. Low taxes creates job growth...its a fact. And by the way, its my money, not the governments, so when you 'roll back the Bush tax cuts' you are saying its the government's money. Sorry, they didn't work 60-70 hours a week to earn it. I did. I'll pay my fair share...I already do. Just don't seek to create the one America John Edwards claims to want by dividing us by income and attacking those who earn more. Just wait...taxes will rise, and the overall quality of life of this nation will drop.

I agree with sewnerjhawk. A flat tax is the only completely fair and easy way to tax, but the beauracracy and the IRS would never allow this to happen

Well let me tell you MY friends sob story. While Slick Willy was president, a friend lived in an apartment with his epileptic wife and two daughters. His wife had an episode and was injured physically because of the attack. She could not work. His apartment was sold as a condo. I gave him hundreds of dollars (while I was making $8 an hour) he had to move to a hotel since they sold his apt. When he finally went to ask for help the refused hime the help becasue he did not have a residence. HE truly needed it and was not helped. The system only gives to those who have made it a career to work the system. The ones that TRULY need the help do not get it. I had a business for 6 years with a partner. My partner bought a huge house, spent 50K on a pool, 14k on a dinning room set. I however stayed living in my 3 bedroom home and saved. When we started doing bad, he told me HE should get a paycheck and not me since I had money saved. People have gotten into this realesate problem becasue they got in over the heads. I pay over 1500 a month on health care, Obama gives me nothing on his plan.

Please, I am self-employed so i lose over a third of my income to taxes and social security ??? something I am sureI will never see. Because when the time comes they will say I have saved to much. Since my first job when I was making $13,500 a year I paid my bills and carried no debt. Now, my sons who are in the college receive no financial aid ??? and I am ok with that except I can't take their tuition as a tax deduction because we make too much money. I am asking to be taxed at the same rate as everyone else. Don't penalize me because I have busted my tail. I went to state schools and worked full-time while there to be successful... and my husband did the same. But our sons college tuitions will cut our income in half. (So technically I will no longer be rich!) Flat Rate Tax is the only fair tax!!!

Rock on Flat Tax! The complex tax code keeps many folks from understanding how much they are really being taxed. That contributes to the kind of ignorance that believes "rich people" are the problem and the government is the answer. "Rich people" are not a problem. Greedy People are. There's a difference and we as voters do a lousy job of sorting them out. Greedy ones seem to keep showing up in State and National Legislative Branch.

Making 250K in the metro DC area is not rich. If you think it is you don't live here. I live in Alexandria, Virginia in a 1500 sq foot house that cost $630K. The guy who makes what we make but lives in say Montgomery, Alabama has a much higher standard of living than I, yet we pay the same Federal income tax! Not fair!! There needs to be a cost of living factor in regards to federal income tax

I make about $250,000 per year which some of yo say is rich. Let's see. Taxes $100,000. Parochial school tuition for my 4 kids since the public schools in the city are useless at $9,000 per year each is $36,000. Retirement minimum recommended is 10% for another $25,000. Phone, utilities, etc. about $700 per month for another $8400 per year. Food is about $1000 per month (of course that includes only basic meat choices when trying to feed 6 people on $250 per week) for another $12,000. Two modest cars (a Chevy Aveo and a Dodge Minivan) at about $500 per month for another $12,000 per year. Medical insurance and out of pocket is $420 every two weeks for another $11,000 per year. Gasoline is $400 per month for $4800 per year. Clothes are about $300 per month for a family of 6 shopping at department stores for $3600 per year. I guess I do take a little luxury by sending my kids to music and dancing school for a total of about $500 per month ($90 per month per kid for music lessons and $125 per month for the 3 girls to go to dancing schoo) for another $6000 per year. Put money away for college at $300 per month per child so they can be rich like me which is another $15,000 per year. That leaves about $16,000 per year to cover everything else - car and home repairs, vacation, an occasional concert or movie, girl scout cookies, etc.

So $250,000 makes someone rich. What exactly did I list that makes me a rich person? No mercedes benz, no mansion ($300,000 homes are about $2300 sq ft), no exotic trips. The only luxury is music lessons for my kids.

I just find it interesting that my family and I live on less than $40,000 ayear and we are still able to save some and we are slowing working onpaying off our student loans. We have very little credit card debt and we are working on saving enough to come up with the down payment for our first home. My husband is a PHD student in the last year of school, and is also a member of the Army Medical Corps. And I am a stay at home Mom off two children under two. If $250,000 quaifies you for tax breaks, and you are considered "middle class" Why is it then that the rest of the country must work two or three job, and still not be able to afford medical insurance? Why is it that the people that make $250,000 a year get to complain that they don't have enough to live one, when 90% of the rest of the world can live on only a few dollars? Just a little food for thought.

So you mean to tell me that a married couple that both make $125k per year is rich? Sorry to inform everyone, but this is a decent salary (nothing more) in many parts of the country. Consider the cost of living difference from state to state. For example I grew up in the midwest where $100k - $200k could buy you a decent home. The same home in many parts of California (where I live now) goes for $500k - $600k or 3 - 5x more, therefore if you live in the midwest you should consider each spouse making $25k per person year rich as well. Maybe that will help put a few things into perspective....

Hmm. . . it's amazing how each person has taken a point out of this article and made it the center of the story - even if the article was largely about something else. The bottom line is this - it doesn't matter how many hours/days per week you work to earn and it doesn't matter where you live; at $250K per year, you still make more than 98% of the nation. Period.

I do not agree with the Democratic tax plan, but there are those who make more and pay less (at least percentage wise) in taxes because they can afford to hunt out the loopholes for tax breaks. For the middle-class or "median" income earners, we pay our 28-40% and move on. There is no multi-million dollar beach house to offset taxes with property value loss, etc.

Two things, I make about 100K with bonuses. My wife does not work and has raised our 2 kids. I work in an area that is more expensive than the exburb where I live. So, I drive 40 miles each way to have a less expensive home and the cheaper local taxes of a small town. It's about the choices you make. If you are financially stressed, make better choices. (btw, I drive a Honda civic to keep the commute costs down) I???d also suggest everyone reading this to open up their minds to voting for what they want rather than the lesser of two evils represented by the Democrat/Republican choice we make every two/four years. Personally I vote Libertarian. We need to get inefficient government out of the social services business and pursue a foreign policy of non-intervention. We need to allow the wonderfully charitable American citizens take care of the needy through efficient private organizations and all other costs of ???Constitutional??? government be borne by user fees and tariffs. This would allow capital at all levels flow into private (non governmental) businesses, creating jobs and prosperity.

Turnerindc...you follow the exact stereotype the author talks about here. You chose to send your kids to a "Private University" that costs $400K...They could go to a local community college for a few years to get the generals out of the way then go to a top ranked state college that affords the same education for a fraction. Second, I paid my own way through one of the top engineering colleges in the nation without help from my parents or any other assistance.

I would say $250K is very rich...it???s all about how you spend your money. Is your idea of "needing" a new car a new Mercedes or BMW as well? What, does your "old" need new tires, but want a new one instead of changing them? Remind us, what is your neighbors name again...is it the Joneses???

Warren Buffet recently became the riches man in the world again over Bill Gates and he still lives in the same house he bought for $31,500 and he gets one car a year...a Cadillac-which he gives away at the end of the year. His salary for the year in 1996 was $100,000 and he didn???t complain that he wasn???t able to touch the rest of his fortune.

Sam Walton drove an old beat-up pickup truck until the day he died. He actually fired one of his executives for building a nice-big new house in town, because he said, "I don't pay you that much money to flaunt it" (Obviously it???s different now that his kids run it).

You are in the financial situation you are in, because you chose it. $250K is very rich, you simply make financial decisions that makes it look poor.