Sorry, Pal, You're Rich

Great, I mean great, article. As a sociologist, the disparity in income around the country is staggering, and depressing. For the working poor, that is the people just above the poverty line, 250,000 would be a dream, as it would for myself. Thank you for bringing this to the public.

Daniel Gross, you are a clown. My wife and I combined make 250K/year, and let me assure you we are not by any stretch of the imagination, "rich" or "upper class." We are decidely middle class. We both have "Wall Street" jobs and regiously put a way money each month and each year come bonus time, heowever we are more than a few years away from even beginning to think about owning our own home. We live in New York and see half our income redistributed every year by the federal, state and city governments. I son't want to hear about statistics or median incomes. If you made $250K in some other point in our history, you could make the argument that, yes, you are rich, but not today. Taxes are only half the issue when living somewhere like New York. The skyrocketing cost of living eats a sizeable chunk of income as well. Let me assure you we are not living high on the hog. We live well within our means. We each work 10 to 12 hour days, and for what? The prospect of a Obama/Biden administration frightens the hell out of me.

I used to think just like so many of you... "Why should my hard earned money go to someone who only wants to get a hand out from the government with my tax dollars."...until I had the opportunity to make friends with a girl at work that had just come from that government dole and was crying her eyes out while we were on break. She had just starting working (husband still looking), and had 2 children under 8 years old. After only one month working, she was taken off the New York program because she was now working full time and no longer qualified for the assistance she used to get. Her husband developed an absessed tooth and needed to have emergency dental work. The assistance program she used to have would not pay the bill for 30 days to give them time to determine how much she was making a month, and the dentists in our area wanted her to pay up front since the family was uninsured. Now here's a family that's trying desperately to make it on their own with her making only $8.00 per hour, and the government was pushing them right back into the hole they were in. She had to quit her job so her husband could get the surgery he needed. Had the government program allowed these people to keep their assistance for just a couple more months they would have had that family off of the public dole and back to productive citizens. So the program itself can be blamed for why so many are still there. It is a very flawed and broken system if this is the way it is run. How many more families have tried and failed because the system failed them.

It's nice that those of you earning < $250K "feel" rich, but, sorry, you're not. I don't want to hear "live within your means" - "have everything I need" - "nice house, car, family" - Blah, Blah, Blah. You're not rich! Few of us are, you're not one of them.

Keep in mind, the $250,000 is net taxable income. Thus, a taxpayer could be earning far more than $250,000 before an increase in taxes would apply. For example, the taxpayer could have tucked away up to $45,000 in a 401(k) and also have $5,000 excluded from income a medical flex spending account and another $5,000 in a dependent care reimbursement program. That same taxpayer's medical/dental premiums would also be "sheltered" from the $250,000 benchmark. And let us not forget all of those itemized deductions (mortgage interest, real estate taxes and charitable donations) that will likely come off the top before arriving at $250,000. It seems to me that we are really talking more like $350,000!

What's wrong with making as much as you can based on your own skills? Who's concerned about the average individual's retirement, certainly not the government which limits the amount you can without pretax to 15%. Individuals retire on what they save. The federal govt. is never concerned about retirement issues other than its own.

I qualified for a pension for 31 days, then they cancelled the plan. All my other jobs in the private sector have been personal savings or 401(k). Social security will either be delayed until near life expectancy or reduced to meaningless amounts. Meanwhile, governments and govt. entities at all levels (fed. state and local) receive govt. backed pensions, generally based on the last three - five years earnings. Which for many means a plum job or outrageous salary increase in the final years to boost the politically-connected pension artificially. Take Cook County (IL) govt. Do some research an the $150'ees. These are friend or family members making $150K per year who know little or nothing about their jobs.

As are most all governments, Chicago and Cook County is rife with this, whether the current mayor (Daley), or county board President (Stroger), or Attorney General (Madigan), Dan Hines, etc. According to the Minneapolis StarTribune (8/21/08) "In a city where the mayor holds the same job his father once did, politics can seem little different from the years of the legendary Democratic Machine. But the faces of political privilege ??? long dominated by white ethnic groups ??? have changed as powerful black politicians use their clout to build new dynasties.

The next in a long line of successions has been set in motion by Illinois Senate President Emil Jones, one of Barack Obama's first political mentors, who in announcing his retirement this week made it clear he wants his son to take his seat.

Count on government to look ut for your retirement? Forget about it. I'll keep my money - $250K more or less.

As a soldier in the armed forces and raising a family of four on a salary that is considerd on the poverty line, I have no sympathy for somone who makes 250 g's a year and is about to get a tax raise. Taxes pay for vital things like roads, schools, police and this war and our country is hurting for money. Im not saying that someone who makes that kind of money is rich, but they can afford to pay a larger tax than I can. To the person who said "you stupid people want a socialist country go to china!!!" Thats where our money is coming from because we've refused to raise taxes. We don't need to go to china cause china ownes this country as it is. There coming to us, cause we can't afford to pay our own bills. I myself don't mind a tax hike for myself, cause I understand the importance of it all, so if someone who is struggling like myself on below the median household income, why are you crying about it. Shut up, pay your taxes, and thank god you live in America, if you want it to continue being the land of the free, you have to pay for it!

Does anyone who has posted on this thread realize that once you reach a certain amount of money on gross income that you don't pay taxes on it? The tax scale only goes up so high and then it flat lines. Don't believe me? Go to your Payroll Department and ask them to see one of those charts that they use to determine the amount of taxes. Then again, heck you can get one from the IRS (Internal Rip off Service).

It doesn't work the same for business though. The fact that big business or any business has gotten a tax break and STILL took their jobs elsewhere should be your first clue. Most of them don't pay taxes.

I was talking to a small business owner where I live and he was telling me that the city where we live charges him taxes by the "supposed" amount made and not what he actually makes. For example, he gets X amount of customers in the door and on average he is supposed to make X amount of money per customer. Say he doesn't make that much, they still tax him on that instead of what he actually makes. THIS is the city and doesn't even include the state and federal taxes. Now if he's being taxed to death by the city, I can only imagine the state and federal.

The fact that someone "did what they were supposed to do" and made their money, they should be made to pay more taxes because they make more money. Seems fair to me.

Like someone else said, when you have business owners who pay minimum wage (no benefits) or even slightly higher than minimum wage (still no benefits) that they don't pay in taxes is pocketed making their profit margin bigger.

The Japanese have a decent system. Their goods and services are more expensive but guess what? Everyone is able to live. Everyone from the kid flipping burgers behind the counter at McDonald's on up the the Plant Manager, has insurance and can AFFORD to live. They may not have "jobs for life" anymore but they do have jobs. The employers have to offer benefits regardless of how "minimal" the job is.

Germany has the same thing. Actually most of Europe does too. Is their system broken?

I too look for the best for my family. I want the best schools, vacations, a nice place to live. I work hard to raise my two small sons by myself. We are all happy, well fed, and warmly housed and dressed. Would I like a better salary, sure! But despite the fact that I live in one of your listed "rich states", there are a LOT of people all around me struggling daily. I donate clothes and school items before school starts every year to those around me who need them, I buy Christmas presents for kids who would get none otherwise. But am I wealthy? Not at all. I work hard and bring home a salary of just over $60,000 per year, I drive a Prius, and rent an apartment because my credit is not allowing me to get a home because I have fallen behind on bills in the past. I never thought of myself as a "glass half full" kind of person but compared to these "poor" people, some in my very own state, who only make $250,000 (yes, that is at least 4 times what my two kids and I live on) I guess I am doing pretty well. I live in Connecticut, between Boston and New York, I have lived in both cities, you don't have to be super-rich to live there, you just can't be so selfish that you have to leave beyond you, not too shabby, means!

My husband and I used to make $75,000 a year. We lived well, we had a custom home, nice cars and bought pretty much anything we needed. Granted we did not have a millionaires desires. We now live on unemployment thanks to our great economy. We had to change our habits drastically, but we are doing fine.
So Yeah! If you make $250,000 a year. You are rich! You should be able to live in a decent neighborhood and buy your name brands. If you can't, I don't feel sorry for you. You need a reality check!

There's no way that $250,000 is rich. I don't make that kind of money but my wife and 2 kids are doing fine on the $80 grand we make a year. But I have never accumitaled credit card debt, have always paid cash for my cars and have a nice home. People try to live beyond the means and that is what the problem is. I'm a manager and I have people quite because their not making enough money and I always ask have you found a better job? Most say no and then I understand why they have nothing and he's going to vote for our next president (isn't that scary!). Clinton put all of us in mess with signing NAFTA with China, all the crap just fell on the wrong President. All you poor folks that can't find a job just go and thank Bill Clinton, but your not smart enough, it's easier to blame the current president and blindly follow someone who is promising you the good life. Bill Clinton promised you all healthcare 16 years ago and said that if anyone could get it done it would be Hillary, well where's it at? Hillary thinks that she can still do it, do have 16 more years to wait? Promises promises we'll help you poor folks out, notice the Clinton's are laughing all the way to the bank..

WELL, I WAS GOING TO PICK UP THE PHONE TO TRY TO CLOSE THAT DEAL I'VE BEEN WORKING ON- YOU KNOW, THE ONE THAT WOULD INCREASE MY BONUS, GETTING MY HOUSEHOLD INCOME UP OVER $250K? WELL, I THOUGHT BETTER OF IT- I'D RATHER BE AT $249K. TOO BAD THE HOURLY EMPLOYEES WORKING HARD AT OUR PLANT DOWN IN FLORIDA WON'T SEE THE BENEFITS OF THAT DEAL!!!!!

Daniel Gross, you are a clown. My wife and I combined make $250K, and let me assure you, we are not "rich" or "upper class." We are decidley middle class. While we both have "Wall Street" jobs, we are forced to rent our partment, because despite the fact of watching our spending and regioulsy putting money away every month and annually at bonus, we are still more than a few years away from even the hope of owning a home. We live in New York and are therefor brutalised come tax time. Between federal, state and city income taxes, we are working for the government for the first six months of the year. Throw in the high cost of living in New York and we're lucky we can save some money at the end of the day. I don't want to hear about statistics or median incomes. My wife and I work 10 to 12 hour days busting our buts and for what? To see our hard earned income redistributed. I am scared to death of an Obama administration and a Democrat controlled Congress.