Sorry, Pal, You're Rich

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  • Posted By: chrismur @ 08/28/2008 2:19:45 PM

    I don't think taxing the people who have worked to get ahead is a solution because them getting ahead didn't cause the lower income Americans to have their problems. If my income increases by say another 75k it will not result in an increase in problems for lower income Americans. It would most likely improve the situation because I would spend that money on goods and serives that helps the economy. Conversely if my income went down 75k it wouldn't improve the situation of the poor. You can say we all need to share the burden but I share mine and about 3 other peoples burden. If you REALLY want to solve the problem of the poor; address the cause. Improve the skills of the poor and their circumstances will improve. Excessively tax the people who do well and you don't do anything other than address the symptoms and not the cause and are doomed to stay on that treadmill until you address the cause.

  • Posted By: sethosche @ 08/28/2008 2:19:35 PM

    A proposal to devise an income tax system that accounts for geographically divergent costs of living ...?

    Ever hear of the Fair Tax ?

    Which is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including:
    A progressive national retail sales tax.
    A prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level.
    Dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality.
    Repeal of the 16th Amendment through companion legislation.

    www.fairtax.org

  • Posted By: sethosche @ 08/28/2008 2:18:52 PM

    A proposal to devise an income tax system that accounts for geographically divergent costs of living ...?

    Ever hear of the Fair Tax ?

    Which is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including:
    A progressive national retail sales tax.
    A prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level.
    Dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality.
    Repeal of the 16th Amendment through companion legislation.

    www.fairtax.org

  • Posted By: cpa_esq @ 08/28/2008 1:58:21 PM

    I think it is very difficult to have a flat base for taxation policy. A couple with 5 children caring for a parent with medical needs and making $250K is no comparison to a childless couple making the same amount. Even a flat percentage doesn't account sufficiently for the variables. The reality is that our existing tax code, occasionally tweaked for societal changes, is about as fair as anything else that has been proposed and it stimulates capital acquisition and investment. Proposing any new tax code will only lead to a whole new wave of corporations looking for loopholes and finding ways to abuse the system.

    • Posted By: eezyduzit @ 08/28/2008 2:18:47 PM

      5 children is a personal choice. They come with a cost. You pay for them because I don't want to anymore.

  • Posted By: RangerDan @ 08/28/2008 2:18:37 PM

    While I pay income tax on my unemployment insurance two thirds of America's corporations pay no income tax what so ever. I have no problem with anybody making as much as they can possibly earn. I do ask for an even playing field, and that we do not have. America has stacked the cards towards the rich and it has stretched the middle class to the breaking point. The rich in America need the middle class to fund their selfish lifestyles. They're feeding off their own base of wealth. When the middle class collapses it will take the rich with them. Which is exactly what is happening with the collapse of the sub prime mortgage market. The sub prime market is just the beginning. Next is the credit card market.

  • Posted By: luigi1 @ 08/28/2008 12:11:00 PM

    i live in a blue collar town. the average wages are $38k a year.
    if $250k is middle class then i need help.

    • Posted By: Abbs @ 08/28/2008 2:18:36 PM

      Sure - Study hard, take your SAT, go to Harvard (I am sure you'll get financial aid based on your income) and graduate. Waalaaah....you will be in middle-class too.

  • Posted By: rodr5335 @ 08/28/2008 2:13:28 PM

    The problem isn't in defining what is "rich" and "not rich". The problem is in believing that above some "magic number" the government is entitled to more of the money you work hard to earn. (And in case anyone wonders, I make a lot less than $100k).

    • Posted By: jblackwell88 @ 08/28/2008 2:18:29 PM

      I agree. That we have INCOME TAX at all precedes from the notion that government owns your labor, and therefore YOU. THAT is what is immoral. The government does not own ME and I will fight for ME. I will not however fight to leverage the governments power to TAKE from someone else. This is what socialists do and they are immoral.

  • Posted By: amjrmd @ 08/28/2008 2:12:25 PM

    Some people in the country are ridiculous, tax amounts should be the same until a point, I'd like 150k as your annual income, then for every 100k per year increase, its another 1% tax increase, you've got more, you can afford to give a little more back

    • Posted By: manfernandez @ 08/28/2008 2:18:18 PM

      How much do you pay? I paid $37K last year. My wife stays home with my kids and although my salary is high, it is not double income. I think in this country you have the opportunity to make as much as you want, but you cannot steal second base without taking your foot off of first.

  • Posted By: rodr5335 @ 08/28/2008 2:17:45 PM

    The problem isn't in defining what is "rich" and "not rich". The problem is in believing that above some "magic number" the government is entitled to more of the money you work hard to earn. (And in case anyone wonders, I make a lot less than $100k).

  • Posted By: thepinetree @ 08/28/2008 1:28:36 PM

    I don't know who the author of this story is, but it seems very relevant to the direction this discussion has gone...

    A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself a very liberal Democrat and was very much in favor of redistribution of wealth. She was ashamed that her father was a staunch Republican.

    Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

    One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes and the addition of more government welfare programs. He responded by asking her how she was doing in school. She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, with no time to go out and party like other students. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend. Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"

    She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA She is so popular on campus, college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.

    "Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."

    The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree! She played while I worked my tail off!"

    The father slowly smiled and said gently ???Welcome to the Republican Party!???

    • Posted By: gobluesarah @ 08/28/2008 2:17:21 PM

      That's one side of the story... What about the ridiculously smart kid that parties all the time, doesn't work hard, but is lucky enough to get be on their smarts - with a 4.0 - compared to the student that works as hard as they can but can only pull a 2.0. Hard work isn't the only factor determining whether or not you have a $250k/year salary. Where you start out can make a big difference, too. If your parents were able to pay your way through school, that's an open door to better schools and/or no student loan debt; if you were wealthy enough to live in a nice area with a strong school system, or your parents could afford to put you through private school, you'll have a better base for your college education and a better chance at getting into a good school; if you can afford to work a low-paying or unpaid internship during college, your employability skyrockets, but if you have to wait tables to make enough to pay rent on top of going to school full time, you'll have a hard time passing off serving steak as valuable experience. This is the person I'm concerned about. It's not that I think the lower classes need hand-outs, or that the upper-class owes the lower-class anything. I just think that the American Dream is harder and harder to achieve, with skyrocketing education costs, the level of expected education rising (what can you do without a post-grad degree to make $250k?), and declining accessibility for the lower class to the tools that will enable them to reach the level of success we're discussing. With all this stacked against a hard-working young person trying to do better than their parents did, is it really fair to lump them in the same category as your lazy freshman party girl?

    • Posted By: rjkardo @ 08/28/2008 2:00:09 PM

      Was this meant to be the silliest story ever, or did it just turn out that way?

  • Posted By: EJLP @ 08/28/2008 2:17:07 PM

    Here's the reality. If I moved my family from Southern CT to Kansas or Iowa, my household income drops like a rock. The reason is, is that its all relative. The last time I made $30k a year, I was living outside NYC, I was 26, single, and guess what? I ate peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I am not elitist, I am a realist.

  • Posted By: syringa @ 08/28/2008 2:16:47 PM

    To me, rich is defined as financial independence. That is, you do not need a job to maintain your standard of living. A $250,000 per year salary does not necessarily qualify, unless you've been earning that much for at least 10 years and managed to save half your income. It is not the salary that makes you rich but your net worth and your liquidity level, or your ability to turn your net worth into cash.

  • Posted By: dumbluck @ 08/28/2008 1:43:32 PM

    Of course $250,000 is middle-class. After deducting the expenses for my $1M, 4500 sq ft house, pool costs, 2 Mercedes, 32ft boat (dont even get me started on slip charges), jet-skis for each of my kids, landscaping, housekeeping and the added expense of heating my home, I'd be lucky to take only 3 vacations this year.

    • Posted By: kamn9730 @ 08/28/2008 2:16:01 PM

      IF YOU DIDN'T BUY THOSE THINGS AND USED YOUR INCOME FOR WHAT IT IS YOU WOULD BE RICH NO ONE TOLD YOU TO BUY THEM NOW DID THEY QUIT WHINNING YOUR RICH.

    • Posted By: cbartelt @ 08/28/2008 1:51:17 PM

      Seems to me that if you can afford your own pool, jet skis, boat, and Mercedes, you're already on vacation. Who says you have to travel thousands of miles to have a good time? Go out with your family, use the toys you have, and you'll have all the fun without the hassle.

    • Posted By: NickiDrea @ 08/28/2008 1:48:59 PM

      LOL!

    • Posted By: jblackwell88 @ 08/28/2008 1:46:16 PM

      Maybe we should shoot for a society where no one has those things, and you, by extension, will be unemployed, or making a dirt wage because there aren't any "rich" $250K incomes out there to buy your crap products or services.

  • Posted By: smokey_joe @ 08/28/2008 2:15:39 PM

    To: If you have to ask...you cannot afford it!!!
    Obviously, you are one of those individuals who didn't benefit much from having an income far above your abilities. Otherwise, your elite education would have taught you that "municiple" is actually spelt "municipal". Is it your elite school training or your brain that's at fault?

  • Posted By: turnerindc @ 08/28/2008 2:04:46 PM

    You're kidding, right? $250,000 may put you ahead of most of your neighbors, but it does not make you rich. Along with making $250k/year comes the responsibility of having to send all of your kids through college without any financial assistance at all. With just two kids at a private university these days amounts to close to $400,000! That puts a serious dent in your "rich" claim when you can't even afford a new car because college is putting you back. Mostly comfortable, yes, but rich is a far far away world from $250k/year.

    • Posted By: Cncrned Ctzn @ 08/28/2008 2:15:26 PM

      Simple Math. If you make 250K, why would you overspend on a private college? A state school, ie. University of Michigan ($13K), Penn State (13K), UCLA (24K), NYU (30K), Rutgers (14K) would give your children a good education and the tools needed to succeed along with all of your connections in the real world.

    • Posted By: GoBoilers @ 08/28/2008 2:07:39 PM

      You miss the point... A middle class person might send their kids to a mid-tier state school, drive a Honda instead of a BMW, and live in a small house...

      You are rich - plain and simple.... you are talking about the finer things in life, not necessities.

      http://www.beyondthemargin.net/2008/08/escaping-burdens-of-consumer-debt.html

  • Posted By: bigfishk @ 08/28/2008 2:15:16 PM

    this reporteris not telling you the truth as usal, most peole that own small buiness may show on paper that much in income but its far from that in reality. the tax burden barack will put on them will badly hurt the economy. what a lame brain.

  • Posted By: Poor?CollegeGrad @ 08/28/2008 2:03:30 PM

    BOTTOM LINE: True "Middle Class" people question whether or not they are and "upper class" people incorrectly call themselves middle class.

  • Posted By: disher2c @ 08/28/2008 2:14:20 PM

    Your article is right on. The complaints of just starting out after graduate school with all of its debt and paying a ridiculous price for a house are all excuses to justify a tax break. I was in the same type position - not the $250k, but scrimping to pay for a house, pay for family activities (school requirements, soccer, etc.) in a place I loved. Rather than stay in the cycle of pay increase and more going out, I decided to move to a less expensive environment - from San Jose, CA to Austin, TX. I went from a 1400 sq ft house to a 3000 sq ft house and paid less on a monthly basis. The salary was comparable and the public schools are better. It was the best thing for me and my family. Peace of mind, great community, and no more 60 - 80 hour work weeks. Also, 15 min drive to work instead of 1.5 hours.

  • Posted By: spatton @ 08/28/2008 2:14:02 PM

    We're all missing the point. It's not what you make, but who is paying their fair share and who is not,. It's earned income vs. unearned income. I know a multimillionaire who received a tax rebate from the government because his millions are unearned.

    It's also about who records their income and who doesn't. Here is a story of a tale of two incomes. Two familes make $500,000 each. (it's a true story) One works for a major corporation, the other owns his own cash landscaping business. One pays taxes on $500,000, the other declares, maybe $150,000 per year. The family making $500,000 is not complaining and is very grateful for their fortune -- they do the right thing and pay the government well over six figures in taxes, However, they do not live an extravagent life (they live in NJ) and feel very slighted by how others get away with it.

    We can't solve the deficit or the tax problem in this country simply by saying you make x, you're rich and you should pay more. It's more complex than that.

    We could pay off the deficit in the country if the ultra rich and small cash business owners paid their fair share.

    That's my gripe as a top 1% earner in this country.

  • Posted By: manfernandez @ 08/28/2008 2:13:29 PM

    That is perfect, penalize the people that are in debt because of school loans to get to the position to make $250k. Then take their money and give it to others that CAN do it themselves but choose not to. Lower income get PEL grants and more help than anyone else. So I need to give up More of my already nailed tax bill for others? What is the point in bettering yourself? Or should we all live like droans of the government and just live off of them?

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