Sorry, Pal, You're Rich

I think we should go back to the Carter years and tax the wealthy at a 90 % tax rate lets take all their money and become a socialistic country.

I think $250k/year is a comfortable income. Granted, I am making significantly less right now as I'm just starting my work career after graduating from college.
Sure, you might not be able to buy a $5 million dollar home right away, but you could afford about a $1-1.2 home. If your spouse makes a decent living as well (let's say $100k+), that becomes more like a $1.2-$1.5million home. Sure, that's not a mansion in Manhattan Beach or in the Orange County. But it's still a pretty nice houose in those areas, or a great house in most areas (for instance, the Northwest - that would buy you a near mansion in one of the nicest neighborhoods).
With that income, you can probably max out your Roth IRA as well (obviously Traditional wouldn't make sense here, but I won't go into details). So, let's say you started making this income when you are 30 years old (8 years into a career.. that's reasonable, especially after bonuses). If you're putting away a maximum of $5000/year (current limit, but of course it will increase), in 30 years, assuming a 10% return (historical S&P is around there), you're at 820+k. That's not GREAT, but it's not bad. It's enough to withdraw 87k/year for the next 30 years following retirement. Considering that your expenses are fairly low when you're older (no house payment, no college loans, and your kids are grown up and on their own), that's not bad at all.

The problem, however, is HOW you get to making $250k/year. If you're a small business owner (a sole proprietor or a partner), the business income flows through your personal income tax. Thus, raising the tax rate will make it more expensive to operate a small business (same for the federal minimum wage). If you're making it as a corporate lawyer or a banker, you probably don't care quite as much about it, as you know your job is moreo or less stable. That can't be said about small business owners, however..

Just my 2 cents

The problem of simply taxing the "rich" ignores the fact that a very large percentage of these people are small business sub chapter S corporations. When you tax the small business owner, they must lower their expenses (reduce employment) or increase prices. It has been proven time and again that this results in lower overall tax revenue. I guess that that the old adage "Taking from Peter to pay Paul will always guarantee you the support and votes from Paul" will prevail

I think all of the people who make less than $100,000 a year should not show up for work for two weeks.

Then all of you "poor" people making 250,00+ could finally understand that we're all in this together.

In a sense, the poor always pay more. If you're born in a bad area, you'll go to a bad school, your family home will be a rented apartment (no wealth to inheret), no real job opportunities. Result: pay day loans, subprime mortagages, bad credit score, your car payment for a ford fiesta will be the same as a BMW, your car insurance will cost more (you'll take the bus), you'll have no credit cards and you'll be expected to compete with people that went to great schools, had a nice home, probably have never heard of "red lining" that prevented your family from ever buying a home, pay 0% intrest due to their shiny credit score, etc etc. They'll say you should have studied harder, worked harder, and figured out the system. Only and extrodinary individual can make it out of that. Some do. Many do. But if you're an average person who's just trying to live and get by you may not. I don't believe in taxing the rich either, but be fair. If you have more because you were ABLE to work hard great, but don't abandon your own country. The people who struggle are in your own home. This is not a question of taxes. This is a question of the republican party getting richer and richer while the country is in a record deficiet borrowing money from CHINA. I'm not handing my wallet to McCain. Fool me once, fool me twice....

Well also look at it this way. You people that are making 250,00 a year no one told you to go to the most expensive college you choose. No one told you to take those loans. No one to blame but yourself you knew to start with that this type of money is in the higher income bracket for tax purposes. So quit whinning you are the only ones responsible no one else. You choose to do this and no one else for you. I really hate hearing about money issues and espically when a person making that type of money is crying. Look at the rest of the state your income is based on the whole state not just where you live in the state. There are alot of people in all states working for minimum wage because the owners are to cheap to pay anything else. Then they hire the illegals which seems that government is now cracking down on. Way to go. Now for these places to get legal people to work for them is going to cost them more money. The average american person is no fool. So all in all those in that 250,000 a year have nothing to whine about because no one made you choose that job or those colleges or made you buy that house or car etc........ STOP CRYING YOU KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

This whole discussion blows my mind. I grew up in white, upper class suburbia near Chicago. Floated through high school and college and now have a great job. My fiance and I, combined, have an income of $105,000. I consider us very privileged. I work very hard now, but had way more opportunities than those people who grew up in poverty stricken areas and didn't have access to good education systems. I can now appreciate that, but didn't when I was growing up- I didn't know any better.

We don't have to take vacations or go out to nice restaurants, but due to our incomes, have that luxury. I consider us upper class b/c we don't ever have to worry about not making a mortgage payment (we live in Denver, by the way, not a small town in the middle of nowhere) or being able to afford groceries. The majority of the people I know had the same upbringings and did not have to struggle to get to where they are now. They all consider themselves well-off.

Now, if you're an idiot who has a house that is too big, cars they can't really afford, and credit debt, then yes, maybe your $250,000 salary(ies) won't cut it for your lifestyle. I have very little sympathy for those that say they are middle class with incomes like that. My mother says she's poor all the time and they have a combined income of over $200,000. Ha! People's priorities are so far out of whack in this country it's not even funny.

And to respond to Fred Norris, who said, " If I didn't want to have and do all of the items you listed above, then why did I work so hard to get here? " Yes, you work hard so you can enjoy the finer things in life. But why do you have to try and compete for the FINEST things? If you're choosing to spend money on the MOST expensive items, schools, etc., then it is your fault you can't afford it. That, in and of itself, does not make you middle class. Go visit an actual poor area sometime, where people acutally have to work two jobs to support their families and struggle to make ends meet. It's not that they're not working hard, they just haven't necessarily had the same opportunities you and I had. And no, I don't mean those that sit back and do nothing and collect welfare without trying to better themselves. Just don't forget about those people that don't do that...

mremington is absolutely wrong. Buffet didn't mean less in dollars, he meant less of a percentage. he hasn't taken a salary from berkshire hathaway in years, he pays capital gains taxes, and if obama gets elected he will be paying them as income taxes. I also like how everyone feels bad for the innocent home buyers in all of this, "losing their homes". Responsible people live below their means, plan for rainy days, and don't blame everyone but themselves when their life is falling apart. I am so sick of the poor me, and whining people are doing in this counrty. We are losing our incentive to work hard in this country. If you are responsible, pay your bills, and taxes, you have the luxury of knowing you will be paying to bail out those that don't. And now the possiblity of a household income of over $250,000 being rich, and being taxed on over half your money if you are fortunate enough to be in the highest bracket (the people who employ others, buy goods, buy stock, invest, and keep the economy going) so that we can give breaks and "stimulus packages" to those who don't care enough to take care of themselves, just sit with your hand out waiting and complaining about the govt.

Here's the point. Those you that make over 250,000, but don't think that's rich, vote for McCain. Everyone else needs to realize that they will get relatively poorer while the few get increasingly wealthy under McCain's plan. That's the cold truth.

Why don't we tie taxable gross income to a cost of living index. That way someone who makes 250k in NYC, DC, LA, SF will pay less than someone making 250k in the middle of nowhere where cost of living is half. If what you are saying is that people who make more should bear a greater burden of the tax cost, then shouldn't we base it on relative wealth and not just absolute numbers.

This argument doesn't just make sense at the 250k level, how about the person making 40 or 60k a year in one of the major cities verus making 40 or 60k in a place where housing, groceries and utilities are half the price. Don't they deserve a lighter tax burden?

The reason this would never work is that large urban areas with higher wages (and generally higher costs of living) provide most of the tax revenue, so if you suddenly make a real adjustment -- for example, 250k in NY and 150k in Richmond should bear the same total tax bill, the government will lose too much revenue. So instead the policy answer is that those in higher wage and cost areas just need to grin and bear it though when you look at their "real wealth" they are not doing as well...across the spectrum.

No argument that 250k anywhere in this country a person is doing quite well, but focus on absolute numbers in a country as large and diverse as ours is the biggest illusion of them all.