Sorry, Pal, You're Rich

It also used to be that people wanted to be 'rich.' Now we have people who simply hate the rich and want to punish them. Are we sliding into socialism? Do we want to punish success and reward failure?

Daniel, - your sentence "First, the reversal of some of the temporary Bush tax cuts is probably inevitable, given the Republican fiscal clown show of the past eight years." kind of gives away your tremendous bias. You can seriously blame the fiscal state we are in on a Republican clown show? Sure the Republicans have a share of the blame, as does the attack on 9/11, the unrest around the world that we continue to police, and that little storm that hit New Orleans a few years back, along with the decades of government being the best organization in the world at wasting money.

I think that writers like you are also to blame, trying to oversimplify, driving a wedge between the have's and have-nots. Shame on you and your ridiculous opinions.

"???I define rich in other ways besides income,??? he said. ???Some people are wealthy and rich in their lives and their children and their ability to educate them. Others are poor if they???re billionaires.??? These are the words of McCain. Now, my question to him is: I live on 765 dollars a month i Europe. I am na American retiree. I have no Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, ASHA. permanent dividends, pension, bank account, money for gasoline (for more than a year), and no Adult Public Assistance. AM i RICH OR POOR?

I am a divorced, single mother of a 9 year old. I work so hard to make ends meet. I work for the State of Texas and still struggle. I make approximately $30,000.00 a YEAR!!!!!!!! If I made $100,000.00 I would consider myself wealthy. Don't tell me that people who make $250,000.00 a year are middle class. The cost of living is high in those areas, yes. HOWEVER, you don't have to live there. I want my son in a top notch school, a big fancy house, and name brand clothes and shoes but that is not possible. If you make that much money and chose to live somewhere that the cost of living is rediculous, then move. If all of you moved then the cost of living would go down because the housing market would suffer! Think realistically, you are very wealthy just learn how to conserve!

250K a year is pretty good. The best points that I've seen are the fact that we need to hold the gov't accountable for their inability to control spending and that maybe the 250K a year crowd need to practice some fiscal responsibility as well. 250K a year in NJ doesn't allow you to break even??? Where in NJ is this??? I'm a college grad, my wife and I pull in about $150 K a year in NJ and have 2 nice cars, own a nice home, go away on vacation about 2x per year, have no credit card debt, put away money for a rainy day, manage to pay our property taxes, gas, student loans, and go shopping and splurge once in a while. Maybe it's because we both came from families that make >50K a year and have seen what it means to struggle to pay the bills. But...whatever. The real problem that everyone agrees with no matter what side of the 250K line your on is that the gov't's inability to control spending is killing us as a nation. Why won't they control spending? Why can't they? I find it ironic that a country that went to war for its independence because it felt that it was being taxed too much, now as a sovereign nation doesn't realize that it is guilty of doing the same thing to its citizens.

$250.000 = IS RICH and affords it maker far more choices than the average Joe making a mean income of let's say 46 to 62 K. The self-reflection that makes such an income maker feel not privileged or rich is rooted in their lifestyle choices for location, schools, amenities, etc which of course should be exclusionary to the average American (A LITTLE IRONY). What they fail to own is that these choices are viewed as DEMANDS by the rich and not as truly personal choices on their part. Keeping up with the Jones' at this level has demands beyond the realm of regular Americans. Let them scream all they want that an income as low as $250,000 is not RICH while having them spend an afternoon making decisions as the majority of Americans do like should my money go towards food for their table, medications for their chronic condition(s), gas for their vehicles to escort them to work (sometimes even two and three jobs), payment of rent, mortgage and utilities, or towards the betterment of their children. You and Obama have a greater sense of reality and the pulse of the average American. Thank you for being connected to the commonwealth of all and not as an elitist frowning that $250,000 is not enough for sustainability.

Oh my! I can't believe some comments I've read. I live in suburbs of Chicago. My husband and I make $60,000 a year, have about $50,000 in 401K, are in our forties, have one child, and no savings. We say we live paycheck to paycheck and mean it! We can only afford to pay minimum payments on our bills and end up having to Craigslist items, borrow money, or avoid paying regular bills if anything unexpected comes up. We even sleep on a mattress on the floor because we can't afford the luxury of a bedframe. And we used to think we are middle class but I guess we aren't. I guess we are lower class. Yet, we live in a house, own two cars (although one has no muffler) and live in a very culturally diverse neighborhood. I have a sibling who lives in an exclusively white neighborhood, makes above 100,000 maybe above 200,000 I don't know for sure and says they live paycheck to paycheck. They pay all their bills in full, have a maid, their three children go to private school, and they pay all unexpected bills immediately. How can we both be middle class and live paycheck to paycheck. People always want more money in our capitalist society. That's why someone who earns $250,000 doesn't want to say they are "upper" middle class--because they want to blend in with the commoners and our struggle to make ends meet. Additionally, if they say they are "lower upper class" they just can't get around the term lower so they actually believe they are middle class. Ya know, I have a friend that lives in an apartment, is a single mom, has no savings and makes $25,000 a year. I asked her if she thought I was rich and she said of course not! So not everyone thinks people are rich just because they make more than oneself. I'd love someone who makes $250,000 a year to tell me where I stand in the classes.

Here's the point. Those you that make over 250,000, but don't think that's rich, vote for McCain. Everyone else needs to realize that they will get relatively poorer while the few get increasingly wealthy under McCain's plan. That's the cold truth.

I am glad nobody is bitter out there. I also make above the stated number, but also understand not everybody has the chance or skill or background to get there. Instead of saying "I got mine screw everyone else." How about I got mine and am proud of it. Maybe if I help others come up in life it will drive the economy and I'll get even more.

My husband and I live in Ohio and we have worked hard all our lives. We have one child in college and one who will be in college next year. My husband works between 20 and 40 hours of overtime every pay period just so we have enough to pay our bills and be able to go to the grocery store. We have not been on a vacation in 5 years. If we made $250K per year, we would consider ourselves rich. Hard working people need a break. We are not poor (although we used to be) but my children work and buy their own school clothes. We were barely able to get enough money (in loans) to allow my daughter to start her sophomore year in college. People that have never been poor or never fallen on hard times would not understand what we go through. The only public assistance we have EVER asked for was WIC when I was pregnant with my oldest child and we did not have insurance. Saving money is next to impossible. Something has to change or their will be no middle class, just rich or poor.

I don't believe taxing people who make more money is the solution because I don't think it is the cause of many lower incomes Americans problems. If you were to give the people who make $250k and up a tax break would it increase the problems for the poor? You may say yes to the extent that there won't be as many government sponsored programs but even if there were the same amount the lower income people's problems would be the same. Taxing the people who have worked to get ahead is not the solution because it is not the cause of the plight. If you want to improve the plight of the poor improve the poor and their circumstances will improve.

Here in the real world (as apposed to Obama's liberal utopia) capitalism is all about incentive...period. Removing the incentive for someone to grow their income from 150k to 300k leads us down a very scary slippery slope that erodes personal liberty, reduces government revenue, and increases unemployment. The fact is that this country was founded on principles of smaller government and personal liberty. It was not founded on the Marxist belief of "from each according to their ability. To each according to their need". If this is your belief, than just be honest with yourself and the rest of us and declare that you believe in Marxist theory. Don't waste our time with an emotion based, psuedo-intellectual argument that feels nice but has no benefit in the real world.

I think $250k/year is a comfortable income. Granted, I am making significantly less right now as I'm just starting my work career after graduating from college.
Sure, you might not be able to buy a $5 million dollar home right away, but you could afford about a $1-1.2 home. If your spouse makes a decent living as well (let's say $100k+), that becomes more like a $1.2-$1.5million home. Sure, that's not a mansion in Manhattan Beach or in the Orange County. But it's still a pretty nice houose in those areas, or a great house in most areas (for instance, the Northwest - that would buy you a near mansion in one of the nicest neighborhoods).
With that income, you can probably max out your Roth IRA as well (obviously Traditional wouldn't make sense here, but I won't go into details). So, let's say you started making this income when you are 30 years old (8 years into a career.. that's reasonable, especially after bonuses). If you're putting away a maximum of $5000/year (current limit, but of course it will increase), in 30 years, assuming a 10% return (historical S&P is around there), you're at 820+k. That's not GREAT, but it's not bad. It's enough to withdraw 87k/year for the next 30 years following retirement. Considering that your expenses are fairly low when you're older (no house payment, no college loans, and your kids are grown up and on their own), that's not bad at all.

The problem, however, is HOW you get to making $250k/year. If you're a small business owner (a sole proprietor or a partner), the business income flows through your personal income tax. Thus, raising the tax rate will make it more expensive to operate a small business (same for the federal minimum wage). If you're making it as a corporate lawyer or a banker, you probably don't care quite as much about it, as you know your job is moreo or less stable. That can't be said about small business owners, however..

Just my 2 cents