Sorry, Pal, You're Rich

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  • Posted By: rathgeber @ 08/28/2008 1:50:08 PM

    I resent the government especially a presidential candidate telling me whether I'm rich. I also resent the attempt to re-distribute the wealth from the over $250,000 people to those that make less. If I wanted socialism I would live in France. Since when did working hard and succeeding make us second class citizens. A flat tax is the only way to make it fair.

  • Posted By: revjosie @ 08/28/2008 1:56:39 PM

    I make less than the average income at $41K. It is true that people that make $250K are rich and can afford a higher style of living. Taxing them more, however, is not the answer since they already account for 80% of all income tax. The problem is that 50% of American households do not pay income taxes. Therefore, how can you ask those who are paying over three-fourths of the income tax to pay more when half are not paying anything? Talk about an imbalance of taxation!

  • Posted By: toolkien @ 08/28/2008 1:55:23 PM

    As I said in my very first comment - $250,000 would definitely be on the borderline between rich and upper-middle class. The simple determination is "if the income were to disappear suddenly, would the person be on the proverbial street within a year". All the rainy day money and savings - gone. If you would be, you aren't rich. If you wouldn't be, then you very likely are. That doesn't mean that upper middle class isn't pretty nice to be in while you are there. But if the economic spigot were to run dry, where would you be in a relatively short period? Rich means having means to live without laboring for a long time.

  • Posted By: rathgeber @ 08/28/2008 1:55:22 PM

    I am for a flat tax. You didn't go to school, no ambition, poor performance then you won't pay much in taxes at all. If you're an ambitious go getter you'll pay your fair share and then some. The idea of punishing a performer to give it to a non performer is not what made this country great.

  • Posted By: im.thatoneguy @ 08/28/2008 1:14:45 PM

    If you feel like you're being abused at $250,000 then stop working so hard.
    ---
    That's what I thought. I work hard because that's who I am. And because I want more for myself. I don't want to stop working and earn less. Less taxes just mean people will be able to achieve their ambitions easier. If you want to earn $250,000 then more taxes will make you work harder right? If all my taxes went away tommorow I would work less. I am satisfied with my income now so I would work less and spend more time doing personal projects.

    I laugh at all the people who claim that they're going to quit being workaholics because they're making LESS money. Real funny.

    I also feel as if I pay too few taxes. I am saving towards retirement have a new car, live in a nice part of the city, own a bigscreen TV, have a great job and earn around or less than the median income. And the reason I don't flip burgers is because I would HATE flipping burgers. I would HATE working retail. I don't care what it pays. I love my job and am thankful that I can make a good wage doing it. If you're having trouble at $250,000 then imagine what it's like to work a crappy job AND only get payed $30,000. Boo fing hoo nobody "deserves" their money. You earn a high wage because of the security and opportunity that a sophisticated and modern society offers. THe guy who flips burgers has little to fear from geopolitical security. It's the welathy who do.

    And how is it that people who are making $250,000 a year are complaining about GAS!? My gas payments per month are less t han 10% of my gross cost of ownership including insurance and carpayments. Oh that's right you chose to build your house 100 miles away from where you work. Well congradulations you've just discovered what a bad decision that was. No bailouts my ass. You overextended yourself if you are having trouble making ends meet at $250,000. And something tells me you don't do 5 times the work of the average minimum wage warner. In fact I would be completely comfortable making the claim that you work about as much as a minimum wage parent.

    Now here is where I do say our tax code needs to be modified: we do need to protect the assets of a small business owners to ensure that business assets do not become entwined in the personal assets of the entrepreneur.

    • Posted By: tonytrotter @ 08/28/2008 1:55:17 PM

      Oh My God!!!!

      A voice of intelligent reason in a vacuum of ignorance! Thank you sir!! Very well stated and all quite accurate. The rich, the poor and the very average all have a tendency to blame everyone else for the outcome of their poor decisions. If you are making minimum wage, then you probably made a few bad decisions along the way and if you aren't making it at $250,000 a year then you probably made a few bad decisions along the way. Grow up! We are all where we are because of the choices that we have made along the way.

  • Posted By: techie22 @ 08/28/2008 10:47:34 AM

    It's rich if all your friends make $50K.

    That's the problem with people trying to say what is rich.
    To McCain it's $5 million salary PER YEAR. He was talking salary.

    I'd say middle class it $50 - 100K which affords a home, 2 cars
    and a small amount of discretionary funds.

    If you recall Tom Ridge upon leaving Homeland Security said
    he couldn't make it on his $175K salary which is 5 times what
    the average American earns.

    For those who have lost their jobs and homes, they would feel
    wealthy to have them back.

    It's very hard for those with much to empathize with those who
    are struggling. Damn Shame.

  • Posted By: TexasRed1978 @ 08/28/2008 1:54:42 PM

    Thank you for this article.

  • Posted By: rn7755 @ 08/28/2008 1:54:27 PM

    I don't know much about this culture because the people I know think they're doing well at anything above $20,000 a year. Give them much more and heck, they might even buy a house! Anybody making in the 200K range feel like investing a few thousand into a down payment trust or something so some folks in my area can buy a house? At 3% down for FHA each $2K could provide another family a home and they would gladly pay that money back. People around here can make a payment, but they sure don't have a few thousand sitting around in a bank acount. I'm not speaking of Welfare people here. Just hard working families that work 40 hours at the restaurants, grocery stores, or the local Wal-Mart. I'm a RE broker and I can find them houses in the proper price range all day long. How about Emailing me at RN7755@msn.com. What a simple way to put a few dollars to do some actual good. Heck, you can come on and meet with the folks you are helping. I'll buy the lunch.
    Rich Norman

  • Posted By: robbsee @ 08/28/2008 1:54:05 PM

    I think the only fair income tax is no income tax. we shouls have a national sales tax and nothing else income wise. Then all people will pay ther e fair share as all people buy things.Even illegals will pay their fair share..The united states is the #1 tourist destination in the world especially with the dollar performing poorly against the euro. A national sales tax would capture money from all those who travel here. by eliminating income tax and switching to a national sales tax the playing field will be made in a way where those who consume and purchase the most pay the most taxes and this to me is the only fair way to go,becaues $250,000 a year is no where near rich in my book

  • Posted By: meg619 @ 08/28/2008 12:45:56 PM

    Even if $250,000 IS considered rich, that doesn't give Obama the right to take away my hard earned money. I've never received any hand-outs, so why should I work hard to subsidize them for someone else?

    • Posted By: sfreiner @ 08/28/2008 12:56:56 PM

      Exactly my sentiments. I would be damned to give away my hard earned money to people who sit on their arses and collect social welfare.

      • Posted By: trimm25 @ 08/28/2008 1:53:02 PM

        Why do all of you rich greedy people (not all, but seems to be alot) seem to think because someone isn't earning 250k a year they are living on welfare. Be happy your rich, plenty of people work every bit as hard as you, have a education but weren't lucky enough to fall into a 250k + job. nothing but greed.

    • Posted By: velociraptor @ 08/28/2008 1:06:16 PM

      meg619: You didn't receive any handouts?!! Were you protected by the US Military (most of whom earn far less than $250K)? Drive on any interstates? How about airplanes? You certainly use the Internet. Eat any food inspected by the FDA or USDA? Breathe clean air? Go to a public school? Where on Earth do you think your tax money goes?

      No handouts? What a joke. You got rich on the backs of every other American who makes this country great. Well, good for you. In America, we drink to your success. But don't pretend that everyone earning less than $250K doesn't work hard for what they get. Bottom line: You can easily afford the taxes as they were under Clinton. A small price to pay to get our country back on track.

  • Posted By: GoBoilers @ 08/28/2008 1:52:47 PM

    Agreed. $250k is rich. It would be top 3-5% of incomes. There is no way that is middle class. It is just another way for the Democrats to try to fool people into believing that their taxes won't be raised. It is clear that they WILL tax almost everyone. Be afraid if you make more than $80k per year.

    http://www.beyondthemargin.net/2008/08/capitalist-ideal.html

  • Posted By: haremgirl18 @ 08/28/2008 1:46:44 PM

    My husband works 95 hours a week to make almost 200,000...we are not "rich" by any standard.
    He has worked hard all his life to acheive this. He is college educated and is a CPA, MBA. We live
    in New Jersey...that should tell you alot. Our car insurance alone is 4,000. Children under 25.
    Medical Insurance, Property tax, taxed on everything from toilet paper to dog food for our dogs and cat.
    Where do you get off saying 250,000 is rich...want my bills? yes I incurred them, but most are cost
    of living. Unless you are retired at 30 and own an island in the Bahamas where you can feast
    on rum punch all day... please come and look at my check book and see where I can cut expenses! BJK

    • Posted By: jnakhoul @ 08/28/2008 1:52:39 PM

      but your still in the upper 20% of the country, how you spend that money is up to you but your not middle class by any stretch

  • Posted By: sjm6202 @ 08/28/2008 1:52:23 PM

    This is the most ridiculous thing I???ve ever heard. I have a friend who is a doctor she makes about 300k a year her husband is a teacher which probably makes 40k a year. They have 3 kids and they have a nice house but nothing special for the area considering all the houses in the area are gated communities in Florida where they live. Well they pretty much live paycheck to paycheck probably do to the fact of their debt from their educations. They don't drive fancy cars they have a Honda mini van which is two years old and they do not own multiple homes they are just average working people like you and me. They should not be targeted as wealthy because they decided to do better for themselves and go to school for 10 years and not sit at home collecting a welfare check every month. This woman put in her time and she is helping people every day curing heart disease which is the number one killer now a days. Maybe you news organizations should stop promoting a president because he is black or white and you should look at the real issues.

    Obamas tax plan makes no sense. I was in the military and we use a term called ???reinforcing bad behavior??? when you have people that are eligible for a earned income tax credit getting back thousands of dollars when they do not even pay taxes and Obamas plan is to triple that, Why the hell would they want to better themselves and get better jobs if everything is giving to them.

    Here is another catch 22 Obama if you tax corporations more then they have less profits so fewer dividends are paid which drives down stock holder values. Is this guy deliberately just trying to ruin what???s left of the economy?

    You know what I love best is all the people who buy into the energy commercial Obama is running. ???The hands that install roofs can install solar panels on roofs??? hey last time I checked 1 hp is 750 watts of electricity. A solar panel produces hardly any power that???s why they are used in low voltage DC current applications. Get real people you???re living a dream???. go spend a few thousand on beautifying your house with solar panels so you can save 5 cents a month on your electric bill great idea from a guy who wants to be president.

    Seriously are we really getting stupider as a nation???

  • Posted By: userct @ 08/28/2008 1:32:47 PM

    My husband and I purchased a small two bedroom cape two years ago, own two cars (one of which is 6 years old and paid for, the other we just bought only after we finished paying off the other). We have a child on the way. We both work full time over 50 miles away from our home (we life in CT and cannot even come close to affording to live closer to work). And we make less than $100,000 a year. We do not own a flat screen tv. We do not have TiVo or any of those other special tv packages (certainly no movie channels). We own one cell phone with NO extras. We don't buy expensive clothes or shoes, or any for that matter unless it's absolutely necessary. We don't eat out all the time. I am one of the lucky ones who's job pays for my health insurance. Between the mortgage, the electric bill, the cable bill, the phone bill, the few credit card bills (our home did not come with appliances and we had some work to do on it - we are NOT the type to use credit cards daily), the student loan (from obtaining my college degree), and the car insurance, there really isn't any money left over except to buy food and the few necessities we may require. Forget about putting money into a savings account. And we've put off having a child for so long because who can afford day care on top of all that? It really makes me mad to see the people dragging around their 5 kids collecting their checks from the government each month, when my husband and I have to work so hard to make ends meet and can barely afford the one child we're about to have. So do I think a $250,000 income makes someone rich...no not necessarily. But they are DEFINITELY more comfortable than most. And the ones that are complaining definitely need to reprioritize their "needs" and not buy that third flat screen tv.

    • Posted By: spjon @ 08/28/2008 1:52:12 PM

      That was all well and good until one of your last comments. You said that you make $100,000 and don't think $250,000 is that much. 1. that's more than double what you're making. 2. If you ever make that much then let me know if you think it's still not that much or not.

  • Posted By: kamn9730 @ 08/28/2008 1:51:38 PM

    Well now isn't this funny. Someone crying because they don't think 250,000 a year is high income. Well move somewhere else and see how that 250,000 job goes out the window. There are Americans that make it on much less then that and struggling to make ends meet. They don't live beyong thier means. Stop buying or using your money on foolish things and perhaps you would see the writer of article is right. Your not in the middle your rich.

  • Posted By: rich902 @ 08/28/2008 1:51:33 PM

    I live in Wilmington, Delaware and make 105,000.00 - this seems to me to be medium income for the area I live in
    Your thoughts
    I live in downtown are of the city

  • Posted By: Loza419 @ 08/28/2008 1:51:27 PM

    RICH

    (Pronunciation adjective, -er, -est, noun)
    ???adjective 1. having wealth or great possessions; abundantly supplied with resources, means, or funds; wealthy: a rich man; a rich nation.
    2. abounding in natural resources: a rich territory.
    3. having wealth or valuable resources (usually fol. by in): a country rich in traditions.
    4. abounding (usually fol. by in or with): a countryside rich in beauty; a design rich with colors.
    5. of great value or worth; valuable: a rich harvest.
    6. (of food) delectably and perhaps unhealthfully spicy, or sweet and abounding in butter or cream: a rich gravy; a rich pastry.
    7. costly, expensively elegant, or fine, as dress or jewels.
    8. sumptuous; elaborately abundant: a rich feast.
    9. using valuable materials or characterized by elaborate workmanship, as buildings or furniture.
    10. abounding in desirable elements or qualities: a man rich in kindness.
    11. (of wine) strong and finely flavored.
    12. (of color) deep, strong, or vivid: rich purple.
    13. full and mellow in tone: rich sounds; a rich voice.
    14. strongly fragrant; pungent: a rich odor.
    15. producing or yielding abundantly: a rich soil.
    16. abundant, plentiful, or ample: a rich supply.

    Based on the definintion of rich, I think we can consider $250K earners as having abundant or plentiful funds. This mean's they make more than the average earner. This does not mean they are "as rich" as the guy down the street. Perhaps these complaining individuals need to re-evaluate how they spend their funds. If they re-budget and live within their means, they may find value in John McCain's theory ("Some people are wealthy and rich in their lives and their children and their ability to educate them. Others are poor if they're billionaires." ).

  • Posted By: craigtamy @ 08/28/2008 10:55:50 AM

    I challenge anyone making 250, 000 to try for one week to make it on minimum wage. Good luck. I know no one would try it, because the difference for them would be overwhelming. They could not feed themselves let alone their children, cars, entertainment, utilities, etc.

    • Posted By: PAKatie @ 08/28/2008 1:51:11 PM

      I work for one of those social programs and we've seen a lot of people in the $200,000K + range try to apply for benefits. What they do realize is just how poor you have to be in order to qualify for benefits. You have to be less than 185% above poverty to qualify. And this includes the working poor--people who work 2 and 3 jobs just to make it. Anyone who thinks most poor sit home on their butts doing nothing but collecting their handouts is delusional. They work. They go to school. The problem is that the media has built up this idealistic dream of what "success" is. A McMansion. Two Mercedes. Private schools...no one has the right to look down on anyone else just because they don't earn $250,000 a year. That's more than what 98% of US workers earn. I guess the rest of us must be real slackers.

      The people applying for my program think they are middle class, but in a city where the median income is roughly $32,000, they are wealthy.

      I live in a suburb where the median income is roughly $42,000. I make $35,000. And it's not for a lack of education or hard work. My father would not allow my sister or me to go to college unless we paid for it ourselves. And this is a man who made $50,000 at a time when the poverty level was $5,000. Because he made so much, I didn't qualify for grants or scholarships. Twenty years later I am STILL paying off my college loans. I would like to go to grad school, but one of my kids will be starting college in 6 years. I cannot justify that expense--the increase in salary wouldn't offset the cost of obtaining that degree. I sacrificed my earning potential to raise my family--how dare anyone judge me for that?

      Anyway, on that $35,000 a year (pre-tax at a 28% tax rate which puts my real income at just over $26,000), I manage to afford a mortgage, utilities, and two children with all their expenses. Not only do I manage to afford it, I also manage to put money away for college, retirement, cash for a new car, and paying off my student debt (hopefully before the kids start college). No child support, no help from the government or anyone else. Contrast that with my sister. She and her husband (an engineer) make a combined salary of over $250K. They nearly went bankrupt a few years ago. They bought a house they couldn't afford (6 bedrooms and no kids), two $65,000 vehicles (one of which went on a credit card), a boat, a summer home in Florida.

      If I can live on $35,000--and it gets tight at times, believe me--why can't they do the same on $250,000?

      It's all in your choices.

  • Posted By: byronlutz @ 08/28/2008 1:49:40 PM

    Mike, who posted earlier, says he pays $100K tax on a $250K income. You people don't think that's enough? He puts kids in private school, which provides jobs, spends what he has left to generate more jobs and stimulate the economy. What do you want to see happen? Take it all away, give it to the government, and let small business dry up? Stop living jealous lives. You need guys like Mike, you're just too stupid to know it.

  • Posted By: lakarl @ 08/28/2008 11:22:36 AM

    I can't wait until Obama gets in to even this mess out. Capitalism has ruined our country. Evil corporations need to be stopped and their profits limited with a %100 tax over a certain amount to help poor and working families. Also all income over $250,000 should be taxed 100% to give to low income families and education and health care. Government needs to take over all large corporations. Also for small businesses they need to pay a living wage of $25.00 an hour to all employees.

    • Posted By: jatrujillo72 @ 08/28/2008 11:38:56 AM

      YOu must be on drugs. Than again, if we follow your path to destruction I will have to buy them for you. You are idealisitc. Capitalism has made this country great. Name 1 successful state controlled country. Usually state controlled countries cap the media, cap civil rights, cap freedom of speech and cap freedom of thought. I forgot, they also tend to cap creativity because you do not have tot think anymore. I bet you are republican lakarl and you are having fun on this blog.

      • Posted By: lakarl @ 08/28/2008 11:48:14 AM

        You lose the bet. I am a member of the Peace and Freedom Party. Since when is helping poor families and free health care for all idealistic? These people have built this country and the least that corporations can do is share their profits with them after they get a reasonable return on their investment. Is this so bad?? Obama is not my perfect candidate, but I would rather get 80% of what I want than 0% of what I want

        • Posted By: BwanaD01 @ 08/28/2008 1:49:16 PM

          Your plan is perfect. Under 100% of the people would be poor, because every company in America would go bankrupt, unemployment would be 100% and oh yeah, 100% of 0 is 0, so there would be no government either. Brilliant !!!

    • Posted By: jazzmanjim @ 08/28/2008 1:37:28 PM

      Taking all income over 250k would mean that mo one would even try to earn over this amount. Where would the money come from then to 'give' to low income famlies?

    • Posted By: funkdome @ 08/28/2008 11:29:20 AM

      Just to be clear, your living wage proposal would put me out of business immediately and make all of my employees jobless. Even if I made nothing, we would be done immediately.

      While you are pulling numbers out of the air, why not make it $50 an hour? $100 an hour? It would have the same effect on my business.

      • Posted By: lakarl @ 08/28/2008 11:34:59 AM

        you just sound like a McCain supporter sucking sour grapes

    • Posted By: ssbn777 @ 08/28/2008 11:25:52 AM

      Sounds like Karl Marx himself wrote that. Good God, comrade, what are you thinking?

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