Sorry, Pal, You're Rich

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  • Posted By: RonnieDorsey @ 08/28/2008 1:25:10 PM

    Who is this guy? What an idiot!! Sure compared to what most Americans earn $250K seems like a lot!! Thats an obvious conclusion any 6 year old can make by doing his simple math. However, that does not tell the whole story. I would argue that we should also look at what type of lifestyle you can live on a salary of $250K. To me that's what most important in defining whether someone is indeed rich. For example what about a family of four living in a nice house ,in a nice neighborhood, 2 nice cars, extra curricular activities for the kids, moms maintenance and upkeep, as well as saving for college. Can't he see how all this adds up!! I would further state that most Americans do not make enough to live middle-class life styles which is why so many supplement their income with credit card debt!! Hello. Making 250K this family is not using CC debt to supplement their income. Simply put is we compared what a middle class person in this country makes to what someone makes in a third word country this type of simple math would indicate that this middle class person is super-rich. Again, only looking at income relative to third-world income. However, if you look at what this middle class income can buy ( in US) you get an entirely different picture.

    • Posted By: JHMidwest @ 08/28/2008 1:28:56 PM

      OK Fair enough, but most 4 family households live on less than 100,000. Does that mean they have a horrible life? To most 4 family households $250,000 would be an incredible luxury.

      • Posted By: username201 @ 08/28/2008 1:32:50 PM

        Right on, I do the same on 110K a year. 4 children, all extra curricular activities, putting one through college. I know what I'd do with an extra 140K. And most of it is frivelous

    • Posted By: username201 @ 08/28/2008 1:30:54 PM

      Hey genious, what you just explained is upper class.

  • Posted By: spuddude @ 08/28/2008 1:32:41 PM

    It's always been difficult to balance capitalism, elitism, social welfare (with a small 'w'), etc. It is wrong for the wealthy to turn their backs on the poor, just as it is wrong (and dysfunctional) for society to put in place systems that encourage or reward laziness. A quote is attributed to John Paul Getty, answering the question, "How much money is enough?" Getty is reported to have replied, "Just a little bit more."

    Greed and hording are a natural part of the human condition. A person that makes $250,000 per year certainly does not feel wealthy, because one of our understandings of wealth is that you finally have enough, meaning that you can stop striving. Bill Gates probably doesn't feel wealthy, because he cannot afford to instantly do all the things he'd like to do.

    Historically, some of the biggest proponents of weighted tax structures have been the very wealthy, mostly because peopple that understand money and wealth have an appreciation for the social responsibillity that comes with it.

  • Posted By: earth3650yahoo @ 08/28/2008 1:32:41 PM

    $250K? Rich? Probably not unless there is more ahead.
    Take into account that taxes alone can compromise that net amount considerably. Do the people who earn $250K have their bills paid off entirely? If most of their income is spent in 'lifestyle choice costs', $250K probably doesn't go far. How about a medical condition that costs money out of pocket? All will whittle that $250K to a lower amount for spendable income. Is the income consistent year-to-year? Or, just a windfall opportunity? Too many questions perhaps; If you can grow *any* money through savings or investments (at any income level) almost everyone can benefit and improve their lifestyle.
    There are people who earn $50K a year (and much less) and send their kids to a private school. Church-sponsored private schools are still operating around the country. All people who attend private schools are not elitist...and many are considered to live in poverty.
    Too many variables to absolutely consider someone's income alone as a sign of true wealth.

  • Posted By: Abbs @ 08/28/2008 1:32:22 PM

    There is a list of bare necessities for a human being (Of course it differs from culture to culter, but I'd think we can easily do that at a national level). The line drawn in the income level to meet those necessities should be used to differentiate between poor and rich. Anyone below that is poor, anyone right around that middle class and everyone about that is rich.
    The $250K income level is way above that line and there is no point in discussing whether it is middle class or high class, because it is all very relative. You cannot compare the lifestyle of a $100k family with an income of $250K. One's lifestyle changes with one's income. Your affordability depends on your lifestyle.
    One that earns $100K cannot say that someone who earns $250K should not complain about their needs or difficulties to meet those needs - because the needs are not the same.
    Many arguments can be made, such as someone earning $250K should live at the $100K lifestyle so as not to complain, but none of them are credible arguments because if it is true what is the need to make $250K in the first place? You can stop at $100K - isn't it?

    Coming to taxes - I agree with the idea that taxes must depend on income levels, meaning people who make more money will pay more for the national services. But this has to be achieved by introducing a flat tax rate percentage for everyone, not by creating these slabs. Slabs take you closer to socialism than capitalism.
    Also to the person who was preaching Christianity to this group - I wonder how much you practice what Jesus asked you to do!!!! Did you sell 'all' your posessions and gave it to the poor? I am not accusing you, but realize that it is all relative.

  • Posted By: DoctorJ @ 08/28/2008 1:20:52 PM

    I managed to listen to some of the speeches at the DNC. The one consistent theme is: we need to spend more money; and, we need to take it from those rich people who Bush gave all the tax breaks to. I have always wondered why no one points out that the so-called progressive tax rates that were initially established with the original income tax were completely arbitrary and had no basis in fairness. Even in the time of Reagan the max rate was 70% before he pushed through the first tax cuts.

    I currently pay at the maximum rate. Between State and Federal taxes we are talking just under 50%. I am now expanding my practice by adding another dentist and corresponding staff....I am creating new jobs...I can tell you that if the tax rate were to return to the repressive and unfair levels pre-Bush or even pre-Reagan I would think twice about taking the risk and the stress of expanding my business only to have to give back most of any increase in profits back in taxes.

    Americans and Congress need to recognize the purpose of the tax code should be to maximize the tax revenue and the economic potential of the economy. That does not happen by just increasing the taxes on the "rich". Rich people's money works for them...I work hard for my money. Rich people can just choose not to play...then there is nothing to tax...the rest of us can choose to play less...less to tax....Reagan understood this better than anyone.

    Bill Clinton benefited the most from the Reagan tax cuts....

    • Posted By: jblackwell88 @ 08/28/2008 1:31:56 PM

      People aren't interested in the best economic model. They just want to take as much as they can get.

  • Posted By: bobjohn4548 @ 08/28/2008 1:14:12 PM

    Maybe I am rich (although I certainly don't feel like it - and it has nothing at all to do with my neighbors!). I make (slightly) over $250K a year. The relevant question is how did I get here? While others were partying at a local bar, I was sloshing through the mud in Quantico Virginia training to be an officer of Marines. While my peers were enjoying their young kids, I was studying for my MBA and my 2nd Masters degree. While my friends were watching Monday night football, I was no doubt working late. My point, of course, is that I've worked hard to get to here. Why should I be penalized for working hard and taking risks?

    • Posted By: Goldrock26 @ 08/28/2008 1:31:49 PM

      Maybe you are rich, but then why am I not? I went to graduate school and after five years of working 60-70 hours a week in the lab I got a PhD. Now I work the same hours, I oversee research projects that have millions of dollars in funding and only get $30K a year for myself. Once they raise the minimum wage, I'll be making less than it for the hours I put in. Mayby you should be glad that you are paid what your level of education says you are worth, because there are plenty of people who are better educated than you are and make a lot less.

    • Posted By: jblackwell88 @ 08/28/2008 1:21:27 PM

      Because they are irrational bobjohn, they just want to take what you've earned because they lack the wherewithal to earn if for themselves.

      • Posted By: spjon @ 08/28/2008 1:31:22 PM

        I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Not everyone can get rich just by hard work and doing the best they can and if you think that then there is something wrong with you. Most (I'll give you that not all) people rather have and make their own money than to ask for handouts from someone else and in fact most people do. My point is that differences in salaries cannot be avoided which is where I have a deep schism with rich people. "I did this and anyone can do it." I'm sorry, that's just not true.

  • Posted By: BSMidwest @ 08/28/2008 1:31:39 PM

    I loved the post by engineer in California. I hate the fact that so many people feel the role of our goverment should be to take care of everyone. I was once very poor by anyones standards and worked extremely hard to make my life better. I know where I came from and spend time and money on charities. It's not the goverments place to control the social aspect of my life. This is coming from someone that shopped at the goodwill for new school clothes unitl after high school.

  • Posted By: abadreview @ 08/28/2008 12:32:51 PM

    $250,000 a year is middle class if you have 8 or more children. Get real. By the standards of the average American, such an amount is considered wealthy. I say tax the wealthy, screw 'em. If they aren't smart enough to understand why they should be taxed more, then they don't deserve their wealth in the first place. Only in America would they be allowed to live such a dream, and yes, there is a price to pay for all that comes with it. Helping out our fellow man is essential to our country and what we supposedly stand for.
    TAX THE RICH!!!

    • Posted By: paquito314 @ 08/28/2008 1:31:36 PM

      It is exactly that kind of attitude that will get us nowhere. The American Dream is that you can achieve tremendously through your own effort and maybe even with a little luck. We strive to achieve through education, effort and smarts. We don't consider, or should not consider the American Dream for everyone to be equally wealthy. That situation is called Socialism.

    • Posted By: Fred Norris @ 08/28/2008 1:31:25 PM

      Communism
      A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

    • Posted By: username201 @ 08/28/2008 12:38:15 PM

      Can you explain why you aren't that wealthy?

  • Posted By: mline696 @ 08/28/2008 1:31:33 PM

    The discussion is skewed. You assume the Dems have the right idea in raising taxes.to solve the US fiscal problems. I for one have greatly appreciated " the Republican fiscal clown show of the past eight years". The problem the Republicans have had is of course Congress. How about decreasing spending and then we need not have this discussion. Individuals spend their money far more wisely than governments.

  • Posted By: BSMidwest @ 08/28/2008 1:31:17 PM

    I loved the post by engineer in California. I hate the fact that so many people feel the role of our goverment should be to take care of everyone. I was once very poor by anyones standards and worked extremely hard to make my life better. I know where I came from and spend time and money on charities. It's not the goverments place to control the social aspect of my life. This is coming from someone that shopped at the goodwill for new school clothes unitl after high school.

  • Posted By: JHMidwest @ 08/28/2008 1:21:31 PM

    People talk about liberals taking money away from hard working people. What does that mean? If it means that the government should not build roads and infrastructure, fund basic education, look out for the welfare of ALL it's citizens then I'mfor it. We are judged by how we care for the least of our citizens. I don't mind paying taxes so that I have roads to drive on and my children have schools to go to. The question is not wether we should pay taxes but ho the taes are spent, wether we waist this money or use it for the enrichment of our country. Of course ths is the question, what is the enrichment of our country? What I believe should be our priority and what others believe are not necessarily the same. That is why we vote, have discourse, and try to decide as a democracy what direction we should go. So if only 1.9% of the nation earns more than $250000 and only 20% earn more than $100,000 then the majority of people seem to be in the below $100,00 range and the majority should rule in a democracy. Is this the case?

    • Posted By: jblackwell88 @ 08/28/2008 1:29:11 PM

      You're not thinking imaginatively. Income tax should be abolished. Government revenue should come solely from trade tariffs and sales tax on everything except food, clothing and medicine. We did it this way before, we should do it again. I think the individual is a better manager of their money than the government, and consequently they should be able to keep more of it.

  • Posted By: Mishicotpatriot @ 08/28/2008 1:07:21 PM

    Thankyou for setting the record straight! It is about time someone/anyone in this country realized that the poor have been supporting the rich for too long. Out tax "system" is long overdue for changes so that everyone is treated fairly and everyone pays their fair share. Can you say straight tax by percent of income with NO deductions or allowances. I know this would put a lot of tax lawyers out of work but maybe they could find a real job with all there training

    • Posted By: Rational Poster @ 08/28/2008 1:28:49 PM

      Can't tell if your comment is serious or sarcasm. I am ready to sign on to a flat tax - I really prefer a consumtion tax with some break for the necessities for the lower income folks. Not sure how of the mechanism but it can be worked out.

      Are you saying you think the top 5% are NOT paying there fair share?

    • Posted By: motcc @ 08/28/2008 1:17:04 PM

      Explain yourself. What facts do you have to back up that ridulous argument?

  • Posted By: NickiDrea @ 08/28/2008 1:26:30 PM

    If $250K is middle class, I'm clearly living below the poverty line. And I'm a lawyer!

  • Posted By: almalak78 @ 08/28/2008 12:46:48 PM

    how many of you rich people actually make 250,000 a year, the stats show that 2 percent make over 250,000 a year not 250, 000 so the fact is the rich make alot more than that and the real percentage of people making 250,000 yr is much smaller. The rich are rich and they will alway complain and moan how hard they work for their money, yadda, yadda. Well so does the guy cutting your yard, or fixing your car, alot of Americans bus their but to make it and unlike the rich they sacrifice alot more then rich, both financially and physically. When i start complaining how bad i have it at 50,000 yr, i think about the millions of people who work for minimum wage so that the rich can keep their extremely hard life, please. Rich people work hard like everyone else, pay the price like everyone else, and be quite, go vote republican. Remember elites are their constituence.

    • Posted By: Shops @ 08/28/2008 1:08:56 PM

      If you compare 2 citizens "rich" and not rich, born and raised in the us, by no means all, but most people who are "rich" worked HARDER at some point in their lives than the poor guy. Yeah mowing a lawn for a living is hard work. So work harder get more lawns and become the guy that has a lawn buisness who employs others.

      • Posted By: almalak78 @ 08/28/2008 1:24:30 PM

        shops, your an idiot, people who are rich dont work harder, they have better eduction and opportunity. The fact is douch bags like yourself are what is wrong with this country, you have no grasp of social equality. Like one of the comments above, hopefully you will be poor one day like so many Americans and see what it is like, but for morons like your self there is no persuading you.

  • Posted By: scottbatson @ 08/28/2008 1:13:16 PM

    I'll say it right now. We make right at $250k combined a year and no we are NOT rich. My car is ten years old and about to roll the odometer, I have a mortage on my home that appraised at $165000.00 when I bought it five years ago, I shop at WalMart for our groceries and Target or Kohls for our clothes. I live in Dallas, TX which is very economical compared to other areas. So if that is rich I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

    • Posted By: username201 @ 08/28/2008 1:23:36 PM

      ok, lemme see .... you make $4800 per week. based on the examples of lifestyle you provided, you are living way below your means. I consider that rich. No I don't think you should be taxed at a higher rate ... you worked for that money, let the others do the same, but I'm sorry to say, you are guite well off.

    • Posted By: Rational Poster @ 08/28/2008 1:15:33 PM

      I believe everything you say and our family mirrors yours.

      • Posted By: daijinmei @ 08/28/2008 1:22:26 PM

        I am with you, we live in Tucson and make just around 250K per year, but we are not rich, certainly not poor, but by no means rich. Of course 40% of my income goes to taxes, but next year may be better.

  • Posted By: torrac @ 08/28/2008 1:21:59 PM

    that is just RIDICULOUS!!! when you have $100 000 a year you are a wealthy person, try to live with the minimum wage to see that is just scandalous that in a civilised country there is such a disparity of wealth, and they boast to be christian, fake christians in fact, that would be fair for all the selfish fat pig that earn more than 100 thousand a year to help so many in America that only have enough to feel their child and
    themself!!!!!

  • Posted By: daijinmei @ 08/28/2008 1:17:10 PM

    Flat tax and VAT are they way to go. Whether I make 250,000.00 or not is not the issue, the issue is that our current tax structure isn't working and quite frankly isn't fair. I know I said the f word. We are not a Socialist country, so we need to pony up whether we make 1,000.00 per year or 1,000,000.00 per year and we need to pony up fairly across the board. That means the rich don't pay for the poor to continue to exist. I know it sounds harsh, but we are all Americans and we all have to pay equally for America. A flat tax may not benefit everyone, but a flat tax is fair. Wealth distribution is another term for Communism.

    • Posted By: jblackwell88 @ 08/28/2008 1:19:50 PM

      Anytime you subsidize something you get more of it, which to my mind isn't in the interest of society long term.

  • Posted By: 1Brad1 @ 08/28/2008 12:17:22 PM

    My wife and I make $210K to $280K depending upon bonuses and we are MIDDLE CLASS!

    • Posted By: Fred Norris @ 08/28/2008 12:20:27 PM

      Join the club - I once thought $250k was a lot of money until I started making it, then reality set in.

      • Posted By: username201 @ 08/28/2008 12:33:47 PM

        You have to admit that when you make more, you spend more. Just because you don't have millions saved in a bank doesn't mean you're not well off. Your standard of living is significantly higher than one making 50K or even 100K so that puts you in a higher class. Call it what you want. But a 250K salary against a 100K salary is not in the same standard of living. And that is how the classes are devided.

        • Posted By: Fred Norris @ 08/28/2008 1:19:43 PM

          Agreed, but does that mean I should pay more than my share?

      • Posted By: blondiesez @ 08/28/2008 12:28:41 PM

        Waaah.

  • Posted By: Taildragger Driver @ 08/28/2008 1:17:03 PM

    "Us...and...them"..."With...Without"...and who'll deny that's what the fighting's all about?"
    Pink Floyd

  • Posted By: matthewdavid @ 08/28/2008 1:14:52 PM

    If 40% of our taxes are paid by the wealthiest 1% of Americans, don't you think they deserve a break. Everyones incomes are dictated by what you want to do in life. if you want to be a teacher you aren't going to be making $250,000 a year. If you are in an executative position and make $250,000 a year you worked to get to that level. Shouldn't we all aspire to make the most money we can in life to live the lifestyle you want?

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