Sorry, Pal, You're Rich

Very interesting discussion: so 250K is middle class. When I am not busy being laid off, I make 10% of that amount and must stretch it to keep a roof over my head in Los Angeles. I do live alone and I presently drive 35 miles one way to work. Additionally, I am older and have a hearing loss and it is hard for me to keep a job. If the feds and state did not take 20% of what I make every week, I might be better off. I think they should abolish taxes on those making below the poverty level. It's ridiculous to tax the poor only to give it back to them (if they qualify) later for basics to live. I Just read that what I make is below the Fed guidelines for poverty. Then too, when I am laid off, I usually can't get help because I made too much when I did work. CA is an expensive place to live, no doubt. Perception is everything when it comes to how much you make vs what state you live in/how much you can afford.

Those at the bottom of the ladder need liveable wages for where they have to live. Unfortunately, it does not work out that way and trying to regulate wages, taxes, etc never resolves the problems. I know people who work two jobs here to keep a roof over their heads. I also know people right now living on credit cards to get by each month due less hours work in this present economy. When greed for money and power make up the infrastructure of an economy and big business rules, resolution for those truly in need never comes.

Some people need to get it through their thick skull that the time of economic hardship didn't emerge because the rich took all the money from the poor. Redistributing that wealth Soviet style isn't going to change the fundamental problems with the economy : illegal immigration, dependence on China, peak oil. Money is just paper. It enables economic transactions, its a measure of value and debt. What it is NOT is energy, industriousness, innovation. If we lose these things, we deserve to be poor.

What I think the majority of people are missing on this board is that though $250k doesn't make you "rich" in the conventional way (i.e. driving a Bentley, owning a 5 bedroom mansion, etc) it buys you a nearly infinite amount of choices that 97% of the population does not have access too. Yes, if you make $250k, you pay $100k in taxes and walk away with net $150k. That is still a lot of money, even in NYC. True that with the average rent/ mortgage on a multi-bedroom apt being about $5-7k, that doesn't leave you with a whole lot of money. If that's the case, THEN DON'T LIVE THERE. That is a choice. If you choose to be rent poor, don't complain about it. At least you have the option. You could always live in a nice neighborhood in a borough, still have a 20 min commute, and save yourself thousands on your rent/mortgage.Or you could live in Northern NJ or on Eastern LI and save even more. Sure your commute would be longer but then you could afford your BMW.

It's all about choices. And with $250k gross a year, you can buy a lot of them.

If I choose to work full time six or seven days a week and you choose to work only part time I am rewarded for my dilegence and industry.

If you choose to go the path of welfar and I start a successful business I am rewarded for my dilegence and industry.

In socialsist and communist nations the working people give most or all of their industry to the state to support the Mandaran class- those people who do not produce anything, who feed off of the industry of others.

Obillary is part of the Madaran class. They choose to live off of the industry of others. It is natural that they want to take as much as they can get so they live well. Very Well. If fact better than 95% of the people in our country, and 99.5% better than the world.

Chew on that.

i live in a blue collar town. the average salary is about $38k a year.
if $250k is middle class then i need help.

What a crock. Why don't people realize that this is a Red Herring. The true people that need taxed are mega millionaires. You punish people with a salary that work hard for it. The people who need taxed are the wealthy, which is not as much based on what you earn, but how much money you have. If you look at Warren Buffet and his ilk, you will see that his networth went up by $5 or $10 billion, yet his tax bill was a few million dollars. Less than 0.1%. That is the true travesty. They will say its for old people that they should not raise the Capital Gains tax... and that is true up to a point. My thoughts are if you have more than $10 million saved up, your capital gains should be much higher. Don't confuse Wealthy people and people who earn a paycheck. As a small business owner, my overall tax bill is 2x's what I bring home. What people also need to realize is that not only are they paying taxes themselves, but everything they purchase has taxes built into it. This means that over 90% of your income goes to taxes. All so the government can take away our rights, waste our money, commit fraud by stealing our money, put us and our children in debt and enrich themselves. Again, this is a red herring. They want to tax people who work hard for their money, they need to tax Wealthy people who do nothing but sit around and count how many 10's or 100's of millions of dollars they have accumulated. Those are the people who need to pay taxes. This is the problem with letting the rich and rich attorneys run this country.

It is not about $250,000 is rich or not. The problem is trying to pit people who work hard for the 250 and those who may not work hard at anything. Is it the person who makes a good living's fault that the other person did take advantage of a college education, etc. Also, how long will it be before 250,000 is not rich because of inflation. I can remember when 15,000 was a good sum of money - not now. An even bigger problem is that raising the income tax on the "RICH" will not pay for the programs OBAMA is proposing. The only way to pay for such programs is on the backs of the 250 million people in the middle class. More importantly is the Capital Gains tax increase. Such increase will effect all businesses and individuals who may only make $200,000 a year. Small companies will not hire the next employee because of it.
RobertBabione

I am a disabled vet on a fixed income and it's shrinking. I planned on having a decent income with my va check and social security.
I was enjoying my retired life except for the last 8 years.
I have had to give up a few things now and so have a lot of others.
If the federal government had left social security alone when fdr said it's not to be taxed or used by the government, it's for the people but that has changed over the years. I don't see the politicians having to cut back. They are overpaid to do almost nothing and most of their expenses are paid by our tax's. I don't see them driving small inexpensive cars and why should they when we pay for them to drive what they want.
I saw cheney deplane and get into a waitiing limo while we are being told to conserve on fuel.
We have been deceived and lied by the government for years and when they want to pass a pork barrell appropriation guess where they get the money?

Hi iheartnyc, add three children to the mix and then tell me you are upper middle class!

The Liberal entity in our country over the years has opted to change the meaning of middle class. It used to be if you were middle class your investments and ownership of a company were enough to support you - without having to show up to work.

Since the advent of FDR the meaning has changed to how much you make- another political correctness the liberals need to control us. When is too much too much?

Our culture was set up to allow individuals to bacome financialy independant of manual work so they coule LEARN. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, et all did just that. They LEARNED to the benifit of us all.