Sorry, Pal, You're Rich

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  • Posted By: RFWolfe @ 08/28/2008 5:06:41 PM

    The bottom line for all of this conversation is that we the people of the United States have to start paying down our debt. Sometimes i believe we are all looking the other way. Rich, poor, or middle class; no one wants to pay or have cuts made. I can not imagine running a household with so much debt spending as our country is currently doing. Tough cuts and decisions need to be made. The Bush administration among other things

    • Posted By: RFWolfe @ 08/28/2008 5:12:53 PM

      The Bush administration among other things, has not addressed our deficit issue. I believe we should all be taxed the same with one flat tax. That is rich, poor or middle. We need as a country either to pay our debt and live within our means, or we may be filing bankruptcy here soon as a country. I am not saying Obama has a great plan, but for God's sake, please as a country lets start doing something about this mess.

  • Posted By: Heartlight3 @ 08/28/2008 5:12:11 PM

    I only make about $30,000 per year and I get by. Fortunately my kids are grown and I only have myself to spend that income on, but if you are having a hard time making it on $250,000 I'd be happy to trade with you! How do all of you who think $250,000 is not rich think the rest of us make it on what must be poverty wages? Minimum wage is only about $16,000 per year. What do those people do? Do you think they don't work hard?

  • Posted By: mustang08ny @ 08/28/2008 5:11:15 PM

    WELL SAID, wow 250k is no small chunk of change, thats 4 times what most real middle class folks make and I live in NY !! Hudson Valley

  • Posted By: clmessina @ 08/28/2008 5:09:34 PM

    This debate is NOTHING compared to the real one you'll be arguing over in a few years. The bigger question: Can Americans be wealthy while the Chinese are wealthy too? Wealth is rooted in capital resources. Think about it, everything you own is made from something. That something (metal, plastic, oil, wood) comes from somewhere and is processed somewhere. There isn't an endless supply. It's like a blanket, so to speak, and it's only so big. Can all the resources available cover everyone comfortably or even at all? Have they traditionally covered the US and at what expense? Are they moving toward other locations of the globe and, if so, what does that mean for those who loose the resources?

    I'm certain many will pretend there is plenty to go around for everyone. Did you know that foriegn countries are pitting oil against the dollar and vice versa? Meaning, oil exchange (transacted through the Merch in commodity contracts) is moved by dollars. As the dollar falls against other currencies foriegn countries can buy oil much cheaper than before (which they are doing) as well as other things, such as land. If much of the US is foriegn owned and the dollar looses more ground against other world economies, where do you think our wealth is going?

    Yes, there are some unbelievably wealthy people in this country but the number really isn't as big as you think when measured against the population.

    I'd say, once Chinese workers start demanding what they're truly worth (i.e. the value they add to raw materials) we're going to be seeing a lot more poor people or more inflation/devaluation of the dollar.

  • Posted By: pastor123 @ 08/27/2008 7:57:33 PM

    I liked Hillary, Its too bad. I dont think Obama can win, Too bad 4 more years of bush. You can see George Bushes DUI record, and I think McCane even has a DUI? Here is the link http://www.duihelpguide.com

    • Posted By: loriw @ 08/27/2008 11:48:31 PM

      Obama did Cocaine. How would we tell our children and grandchildren not to do drugs because it might damage their future job prospects when they point to Obama and say "He did cocaine and became POTUS!"

      • Posted By: Galasso @ 08/28/2008 12:16:30 AM

        I agree - even if it were true - it pales in comparison to Obama talking about "blow" and Kennedy walking away from a (DUI) vehicular homicide charge.

        • Posted By: cjsteve @ 08/28/2008 10:22:33 AM

          sure they are rich but that's not the question. rather, it's how much more are we going to ask them to pay. a couple with an AGI of $250,000 is paying about $51,000 in fed taxes. if they live NY, one of those places you cite, they are paying $17,000 in state taxes, and if they're in NYC, they're paying another $10,000 in PIT. How much in taxes are those of you making $50,000 a year paying?

          • Posted By: jane sally @ 08/28/2008 5:09:14 PM

            I do not think making the rich pay more is the answer. Most of the rich find a way not to pay their share anyway. We lost the jobs to other countries that were paying the taxes for this country. We opened the borders and the jobs went over seas. We only have ourselves to blame for the mess we have let our country get into. My husband and a lot more husbands and wives have lost their jobs in this country because of all the big business going to countries and using their people and under paying them and putting all the money in their pockets and not in that country or our country. It is creed and will continue to be creed by big business, just as it has been shown by the big oil companies. They do not want to take the profit from their pockets. How many of you have shares in oil and do not worry about how high the gas prices go, because you are making a huge profit from your shares. If we would close the ports to the business that went over seas, maybe they would have to bring some jobs back to the united states and then you would have the people back working that use to pay all the taxes.

      • Posted By: xsighter @ 08/28/2008 4:44:12 PM

        Same as all the socialites and actors and big business people. People from all walks of life have done drugs. Some survive others allow it to tear their life apart. From the sounds of it, he didn't allow drugs to rule/ruin his life. Bush almost ruined his, talk about second chance after second chance...

      • Posted By: jaq321 @ 08/28/2008 11:03:55 AM

        Who cares - focus on something more important than just trying drugs early in life.

        • Posted By: oneamerican @ 08/28/2008 12:23:35 PM

          I suppose those on death row just tried rape and/or murder?

      • Posted By: summer4077 @ 08/28/2008 9:54:19 AM

        The same way Bush dodged all drug questions (including allegations of cocaine use) and was an alcoholic.

  • Posted By: rube @ 08/28/2008 5:05:49 PM

    Much of what you say is sound-considering all the monetary variables of living in different parts of the nation.
    It???s not always black and white as to exactly what 250,000 adds up to!

    Yet the one thing I can say for certain- the wealthy class and big business have been on the Bush tax cut
    gravy train for some eight years now and the countries economy still seriously blows!

    And so what is the GOPs/John McCains answer? Continued wider and far more sweeping tax breaks!

    All from the man who states ???that he knows very little about the dynamics of the U.S. economy!???

    The phrase "middle-class depression" comes to mind!

  • Posted By: manfernandez @ 08/28/2008 4:18:50 PM

    mike11, Niiiiiice! The sad thing is that if and when he fails, he will only blame it on Bush. That seems to be the scapegoat for all the problems in the world.

    • Posted By: justathought717 @ 08/28/2008 5:04:36 PM

      It seems to me that our economy is struggling due to the decisions made by Bush and his administration. Wouldn't you blame the CEO of a company if the company was failing to create opportunities for it's employees as well as taking away their benefits and peddling his poor decisions on the employees that count on him to keep the company in good standing?? I think that the poles show that many people feel this way about Bush. His approval ratings are down for good reason. It is his job to be responsible for the oath that he swore to and to take responsiility for his failure.

    • Posted By: justathought717 @ 08/28/2008 5:00:13 PM

      It seems to me that our country is not in such good shape as a direct cause of the decisions George and his office have made over the last eight years. Would you not blame the CEO of a company if it is failing to create better opportinities for it's employees and taking away benefits so that it can peddle them for some gasoline for their expensive cars?? I hold this administration responsible for the state of our ecomony, this is their intended job when they swear the oath to not only keep our country's ecomony together, but also to protect our constitution and our rights.

  • Posted By: SSoft @ 08/28/2008 5:04:33 PM

    $250K may be impressive if you bought your house 20 years ago in one of these upper class towns. However, if you are under 35 years old, $250K is necessary to support a family and live in CA, Manhattan, etc. Also, please remember that incomes can fluctuate year over year. You may need to bank a good amount one year if another year falls short of $250K.

  • Posted By: fishergran @ 08/28/2008 5:03:32 PM

    When you are living on $30,000 a year, payiing a mortgage and having all the other costs every household has $250,000 is indeed a fortune. If I could just get a raise in my retirement income each year that kept up with inflation I would be happy. At 71 years old after working for 32 years and retiring with only modest savings I feel very insecure now. My small investments have lost money this year and I am frightened of being dependent on my children in the future if the economy keeps going into the tank. I paid for college educations for my children so they could have a better life than mine. I still end up paying taxes each year that seem higher than they should be for someone in my financial status. Now that I have to take some money from my retirement accounts I pay additional taxes every year so I just can't get ahead. I have cut back on things like hair care, travel, food I really like but can't afford and going to concerts, plays, etc. just so I can make ends meet each month. Is that fair? I don't see how tax cuts can be given to anyone with the debt this country has and the fact that the cost of wars goes on and on. I am willing to pay my fair share of taxes but I surely don't feel sorry for my son who makes around $500,000 per year when he complains that Barack Obama is going to raise his taxes.

  • Posted By: MadMatt @ 08/28/2008 10:38:21 AM

    An excellent article with statistics to back it up. Seriously people, if you're making 5 times the national median income, you have a LOT going for you. Breaking $100K is really a key milestone, $200K you're doing pretty well. Boo hoo for those who feel the hamptons or Malibu is their "rightful" place in the world. Move to Columbus, Ohio or Oklahoma City and share your feelings with the residents there.

    • Posted By: justliving @ 08/28/2008 2:46:12 PM

      While I can agree that 250k is a lot of money, it is quite presumptuous to assume that people who are making that amount of money have a lot of choice in where they live. Oftentimes, one's location is determined by the field of work he/she is in. For example, as someone who works in the pharmaceutical/biotech industry, my choices are pretty much limited to areas that have a higher cost of living than most of the country (NY/NJ area and San Francisco Bay area). If I could live some place with a lower cost of living and make the same salary, I'd be happy to do so.

      • Posted By: xsighter @ 08/28/2008 5:03:20 PM

        The guy who cleans the buildings where you work, does he make 250k/year? Didn't think so. Live where he lives and commute with him. Problem solved.

    • Posted By: justliving @ 08/28/2008 2:53:28 PM

      What you fail to realize is that most of the people who make over 250k/year are not those who think that Malibu or the Hamptons are there rightful places to live. Most people who make over 250k/year have to live in areas in which they work, which means that if you're in a field where most jobs are on the coastal cities (i.e., NY/NJ and San Francisco Bay area), you have to live there. I bring in more than 250k/year but would be more than happy to live some place where the cost of living was lower, then I'd have more to give to those who are "less fortunate."

  • Posted By: Matthew in Chicago @ 08/28/2008 4:51:54 PM

    A person???s personal view on whether they are rich or working class has more to do with whether their income is generated by wages or by investment earnings. In other words, people who work for their money are working class; people who have their money work for them are rich.

    • Posted By: fingerpointing @ 08/28/2008 5:03:07 PM

      Too bad they don???t show us how to spend money in school. Imagine how prosperous our country would be.

    • Posted By: Andi Lawyer @ 08/28/2008 4:56:03 PM

      So true!!!

  • Posted By: bigBillyS @ 08/28/2008 5:01:30 PM

    One thing to look at here - I think the author is trying to get people's goat by saying "Sorry Pal your Rich" After reading many responses here there is a little truth in each of a lot of people's responses. I'm at the $250K income range this year. I'm very fortunate and there has been some luck involved. It probably won't continue to happen so I'll save as much as I can. However, when I hear someone saying "Sorry Pal your rich" at first it offends me because I didn't come from money and just because I'm might make $250K this year I've not viewed myself as rich. I am not complaining and I can live well so I guess I am rich. I've just always kind of viewed rich as being able to do and afford whatever you want. But everyone's definition of rich is different that's why this can of worms gets so much attention. To those that make well less than $250, don't complain about those that make more. It doesn't do anything and never will.. To those that make $250K or more don't complain about paying taxes, you are lucky to be able to afford them. And for all thoses that think Obama will solve this mess, he simply won't. I'm not saying McCain will either. I don't think anyone can solve the problems the U.S. has coming down the pike. I do wish people would quit thinking that a dem or republican will be the savior. Both parties have duped us and they are both biased. It'd be nice for an independent to take office but it probably won't happen. And one thing nobody can argue is that the candidates from both parties have always been "rich".

  • Posted By: aircraft_girl @ 08/28/2008 2:12:05 PM

    I am a single mom in Kansas. I have a teenage son and a son in college and I make $25,000 a year. I'm feeling really sorry for those poor people who make $250,000 or better.

    • Posted By: TheTruthHurts2008 @ 08/28/2008 5:01:21 PM

      I think that family, friends, and your church should be there to help you. I made bad decisions in my life that I could have very easily let get me down and into a situation where I could not afford to take care of myself or family. Instead, I used my bad experience as a motivation to work harder and smarter to get myself out of what I saw as a grim future.

    • Posted By: manfernandez @ 08/28/2008 2:21:47 PM

      I commend you in putting your kids through school, however I lived in a small home while others bought huge houses. When other were buying cars and vacationing, I was in school and trying to better myself, with NO HELP from anyone, and now I should give more of my money. So the better you make your self financially the more they should take? How is this right. I do not get those huge tax cuts, I paid over $37k last year.

  • Posted By: Tac Man @ 08/28/2008 4:56:35 PM

    Whether one agrees or disagrees with tax cuts to boost the economy, the only fair tax process is a flat tax for all regardless of race, color, creed or political party. It would lessen some of the divisions that trouble this country without making socialistic moves against those who generally work very hard for their money. A word of warning to those who seek to tax the rich, they spend a lot of money on charity and for the public good so be careful for what you wish for.

  • Posted By: kg14051 @ 08/28/2008 4:54:44 PM

    Take all the money in this country and distribute it so everyone has an equal share and watch what happens. It won't be very long before the rich are rich again, and the poor are poor again. For those of you who complain that you only make $15k/yr or less, why is that? If you're not content with that, do something about it, rather than complaining that the country is ignoring you. I'm sorry you don't make much money, but I don't owe you anything because of it.

  • Posted By: RD-073 @ 08/28/2008 10:34:11 AM

    I make a little more than $250k, live in a major metropolitan area, work very hard, and am surrounded by people who make A LOT more money than me. But I'm "rich" relatively speaking. I know it. I benefit from government subsidies (both directly and indirectly) and I should pay more. Its fair. And even if it wasn't, if you're making over $250k a year and are whining life isn't fair, you really need to get some perspective.

    • Posted By: xsighter @ 08/28/2008 4:53:35 PM

      Thank you. FINALLY, someone who understands their situation and what was being said. Thank you for the breath of fresh air.

  • Posted By: texjuanon @ 08/28/2008 4:38:21 PM

    I had never before realized just how poor I and my family must be! By comparison, at less than $40K per year (earned in Christian ministry), we live in the gutter and pick over garbage to survive. What a pity that those who have so much cannot see how rich they truly are. I and everyone I know would fall to our knees and thank God to have $250K per year!

    That people can have a serious discussion about whether $250K per year is still within the middle class is shocking and appalling. The census data tells a more accurate, less emotional story: that kind of income makes you rich, whether or not you are trying to live the lifestyle of those with even greater resources, and the cesnus data proves it.

    • Posted By: Fred Norris @ 08/28/2008 4:53:15 PM

      You don't need to drop to your knees and pray for $250k, just study at a high paying profession 24/7 (like most of us did) and you will get there in 10 - 15 years.

      I love when people think I got lucky to be in a comfortable position. I barely graduated High School and took loans to go to a state school. What I did do was read every waking hour when my firends went out partying and I got ahead. I wish I could have enjoyed my 20's and early 30's, but I was too busy building a career. Some people like to talk about how hard they work, but if they really looked themselves in the eye they could have work harder (no TV, just get home and read). It's amazing how I got through my 20's on 4-5 hours of sleep a night and working 7 days a week.

      If you don't want that type of life, I fully understand (I'm jealous of people to have fun) - but stop trying to take an unfair portion of what I worked for.

  • Posted By: fuelcellfuelcell @ 08/28/2008 4:52:51 PM

    My economic goal is to pay the government over $1million in taxes. I want to be able to complain about it, vote republican, and know how to order coffee at Starbucks. I want to be able to spur the economy by going shopping, establish an offshore bank account, and give money to political candidates who invite me to exclusive balls.

  • Posted By: R32Pilot @ 08/28/2008 4:03:50 PM

    As others have already pointed out, the term "rich" is meaningless in this debate. It is only a term that people like the author of this article apply to a one segment of the population in order to rally the support (jealousy, greed) of those not so financially well-off. Why does it seem like it's always those who have little or the politicians who are trying to buy their votes (with other people's money) that have their hands out? I'm am getting tired of those who already pay nothing or next to nothing whining about how I should pay more. I waited until 29 to get married and until 37 to have our first and only child (I'm 40 now). I live with my wife of 12 years in the modest starter home we bought with the 20% down payment we saved 11 years ago (when we were told we could buy a house 3 times as expensive). What reward do we get for our measured approach to life? We get the mob that wants to take an even higher percentage of our income to pay for what they think is important. We get politicians spouting garbage about how we are responsible to bail out those who made stupid, childish decisions in buying houses they couldn't afford.

    But in the end it is us, the working middle/upper-middle class who will lose because we are the ones that, as a group, have the most to seize. The mob and their mouthpiece politicians will continue to vote themselves deserving of the fruits of other peoples' labor and congratulate themselves for being so compassionate. So, I'll be clear. I don't think I should pay 35% of my income while others who earn less pay only 10% simply because I can afford it and they can't. As a rule I don't care if you're a single parent who can't afford healthcare or cable TV. I don't care if you can't pay your adjustable rate mortgage. I don't care if your corporation is going to fail without a bailout. I'm NOT my brothers keeper. I'm NOT my sisters keeper. I don't care if a tyrannical majority thinks I owe a greater percentage of my income simply because I earn more. And I would rather take a job picking up garbage 18 hours a day than be supported by others . . . especially by those who are given no choice in the matter.

    And for the record I'm neither Democrat nor Republican; have nothing but disdain for both major party presidential candidates; think the Iraq war was a terrible blunder with an appalingly high cost of both US soldiers' lives and dollars; think corporate welfare is just as bad as individual welfare and believe that our government has for too long overstepped their bounds and spent our money on things that don't concern them (war on drugs, gay marriage bans, smoking bans in privately owned businesses, etc.). My household makes far less than $250k/year. but I work with many who do make that and more. I see how hard they work and how dedicated they are to their professions and think that they, like me, should be paying taxes at a much lower rate.

    • Posted By: clmessina @ 08/28/2008 4:52:35 PM

      I couldn't agree more. I'm the same age, waited the same amount of time to have a baby, just bought our first house and am taking a hit on the equity because people flipped houses like a multi-level marketing scheme leaving taxpayers and homeowners who actually intend to buy and live in their homes holding the bag.

      My biggest problem with the government isn't just the waste. It's how they define 'helping the country'. If you take everyone's capital to destroy a country on the other side of the world, then rebuild that same country for a 10% reduction on the price of their oil shipments to your country I wouldn't call that helping the country. When you put so many non-violent drug users into jails that the violent criminals have to be let out early due to overcrowding I wouldn't call that helping the country. Money is spent by our government without any honest consideration toward it's value. Take, for instance, the Hoover Dam. It was built by US money and, guess what. It has paid for itself several times over from all the energy it produces! Imagine that- a government project that doesn't LOOSE money!

      Yes, some argue that money should be redistributed. Fair enough, but if we're redistributing my hope is that we redistribute on something that doesn't LOOSE money. Consumption of cheap imported goods (i.e. the tax 'relief' checks that went out to Americans, then to Wal-Mart and then straight to China) would not be an example of good financial redistribution. Building another oil refinery or even researching alternative energy might be. Odds are, though, small tokens do more for the politicians regardless of their long term toll so we'll likely see more small tokens. We're like the Roman poor who would come to see the games in the Colluseum for free bits of bread.

  • Posted By: MikeyMike82 @ 08/28/2008 4:52:32 PM

    The more you make the more you spend. That's the American Dream. I make $300,000 a year and I save AND spend like crazy. I want to be able to retire when I am 55 or 60. I have friends that make way more money and they are members of multiple private country clubs and drive new European cars. My wife and I drive 8 and 10 year old luxury vehicles. We are members of only one private country club and vacation twice a year. We still like a deal, we eat at the same restaurants that we ate at when we only made $50,000 a year. We shop at outlet malls. I consider ourselves middle class. We got here on our own. The government had nothing to do with our success. We paid $100,000 in taxes last year. That's unfair.

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