Why I Am Leaving Guyland

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  • Posted By: NWKen @ 09/09/2008 6:34:28 PM

    Well now,
    It's nice to read the male-bashing in some of these replies. Ladies (& some not), if you think it's cute & funny, even just a little. That's a problem. Many men & women grow old, & die alone because of the accepted sub-culture of male-bashing. Still funny? If yes, tell the cabbage club I said "Hi."
    The one point I can't believe the author missed. Is the sky high divorce rate nowadays. I've seen cited divorce rates of up to 75%. In Vegas, they call that a "Sucker's bet." That high failure rate, coupled w/ridiculously abusive laws, explains why so many men are no longer marrying. I'm middle-aged, reasonably successful & attractive. Growing up, I wanted nothing more than a family. In this day & age, that's simply not going to happen (or last). The author cites tidbits from biased "Experts" (ie: being married is always better for the male?). The statistics most-definitely do not agree w/that.
    Tony's getting married? Good Luck, buddy. You're gonna need it....

  • Posted By: NWKen @ 09/09/2008 6:21:35 PM

    Well now,
    It's certainly nice to read all of the male-bashing in some replies, here. Ladies (& some not), when you think it's cute&funny to joke like this, even just a little. That's a problem. Many men & women will grow old & die alone because of it. Still funny? If yes, tell the cabbage club I said "Hi."
    Many men now choose not to marry. I've seen divorce rates as high as 75%. In Vegas, that's called a "Sucker's bet." That's the one point I can't believe the author of this article missed. I'm a reasonably successful, attractive, middle-aged male. I wanted a family more than anything growing up. I also grew up through two divorces... A 75% failure rate, coupled w/the grossly unfair family court laws today? It's not going to happen.
    The author cites data that are skewed (ie: marriage is always better for the male?). I wish you luck there, Tony. You're gonna need it.

  • Posted By: winegirl @ 09/09/2008 5:29:19 PM

    I'm 60 and have been married twice. First at 20 and again at 39 (to a man 12 years younger.) While a divorce is no picnic, we managed to split up relatively unscathed, and I did not expect (since I earned more,) to have my ex pay "alimony.' (it's called maintenance in my state and is not awarded indefinitely.) I love being married, but the key is to pick a person of good character. My current husband says "I married you because you had all 3 legs of the stool--the mind, the body and the soul." It's not difficult to find a mate, I meet men all the time through work or my spouse who ask to see us again--"and ask your wife to come!" Women need to learn how to connect with a man, not as a future "paycheck" or "father," but as a unique human being with his talents and faults. Men need to look for women with the same mindset. No one is "perfect" or "the one." There are many possible mates that will allow you to live happily. I would warn, however, women to get a good education, develop a good career and expect to work until retirement. It is a waste of educational resources to send women through college and professional schools, to have them sit home with kids. And I have not seen a single couple who's marriage has been made better by having kids. That's a whole other ball game. Women: men don't invest as much emotionally and mentally into the childrearing jub as you do, and the marriage partnership suffers as a result. That and the lack of sufficient money are the two biggest marriage wreckers that I've seen.

  • Posted By: Sand @ 09/05/2008 2:01:35 AM

    Face it.Most men today continue to act like teens well into their late 20s. A lot of them are irresponsible, immature and commitment-fearing.

    The majority of women today are well-educated, empowered and will not settle for childish men b/c deep down they still want to be taken care of by A REAL man - it's female nature.

    Real men are hard to find.

    As a result:

    Most women have stopped believing in the idea of a " stable home" and a " dedicated husband"

    a lot of women postpone these dreams- at the expense of their biological clocks- while some just give up..

    In the meantime-- the situation has only caused men to permanently dwell in Guyland-feeling finally liberated from womens' expectations.. They dont need wives anymore ; sex is easy to get, and they can pay someone to iron their shirts and cook their food..


    I guess we are the main victims in this situation- especially since most women want to settle down by their late twenties and have a family- unlike guys- gurls do not really enjoy promiscuity and playing around.( and those who do- usualy get looked upon as sluts).

    Perhaps the best solution is just to clone the few real men that exist.

    • Posted By: spocksdisciple @ 09/05/2008 2:03:58 PM

      I have to laugh at this idea of a "REAL MAN", feminists of 40 years ago would scream bloody murder at this type of response. They're fought long and hard to destroy marriage as an institution with phrases like "marriage=gender slavery" or "I need a man like a fish needs a bicycle". Now women have all the reproductive freedom they want amd they use it! they played the victim card back then and now they're blaming men again for their "freedom" and again they're the "victim".

      Meanwhile those men who do choose marriage are made to take a huge risk both financially and emotionally, if/when the divorce comes along he has his assets cut in half or more, loses access to his children, is kicked out of the house, made to pay huge child support/alimony payments for years and is possibly thrown in jail if he loses his job and falls behind on payments or as accused of some DV charge(true or not).

      So much for the so called "rewards of marriage", again women scream their the victims in these cases and so in essence a man is damned if he does marry and damned if he doesn't marry.
      Women want it both ways and this post all but says so, well ladies you can't have it both ways. The marriage strike currently going on is the response more and more men have to this type if "game" women want to play. The best strategy is not to play the game at all and men are taking their marbles and going elsewhere.

      • Posted By: dharmaa @ 09/08/2008 12:27:46 AM

        Then we really have no use for you - do we? I see a future where male fetuses are less desirable than a female child. We can just keep the few desirable breeders and discard the rest since they a liability anyway. Yes, lets do have our cake and eat it to. hehehehe

        • Posted By: bd5034 @ 09/09/2008 4:46:36 PM

          Dharmaa, if we look deep into the future, neither man NOR woman will be required to reproduce. I

  • Posted By: bd5034 @ 09/09/2008 4:37:09 PM

    I am 25 years old, and am tentatively leaving "Guyland." Despite living at home due to financial constraints, I am embracing the responsibility of juggling a full-time job, newfound sobriety, and a one-month-old son. Although stressful, I find that responsibility is paradoxically freeing. As I leave behind the hedonistic debauchery of youth, I gain the wisdom and courage to navigate situations that terrified me in the past. Do not underestimate the importance of responsibility in a meaningful existence - indeed, responsibility is the hinge upon which true, lasting self-esteem swings.

  • Posted By: hubbaral @ 09/08/2008 10:24:38 AM

    This is a great article. I got married when I was 22 to a 20-year-old woman and have never regretted it. We have been married for 11 years and it just keeps getting better. I know that our experience is not typical and that what has worked for us may not work for others but part of our success is attributed to the fact that by marrying young we ended up growing up together. We are now 33 and 31 and know each other so well that just the thought of being "out there" brings shivers to our spines. I have been in a loving relationship for over 10 years while other guys have been partying. There will always be a part of me that envies the so-called "freedom" that singles my age have but when it comes down to it I would not trade what I have for it. I have 2 great kids who quite frankly are more fun than any pack of 28 year olds in a bar. Some may think that I missed out on "having fun" in the prime of my youth but I see it completely different. I was able to fully enjoy my kids while I still had time and energy to give them. Furthermore, since we had them so young, my wife and I we will have the chance (hopefully) to see them grow and have their own families. Once they leave our home my wife and I will still have time to enjoy each other???s company as well as our grandchildren. I'm willing to bet that once your life starts winding down you will remember the time spent with loved ones more than the time spent in "Guyland".

  • Posted By: phelpschick @ 09/04/2008 4:48:07 PM

    i told my young son to "boycott" engagement, marriage and children. This is due to family law courts where the man gets everything taken away from him in a divorce. His home, half his paycheck at least, his children (the mom usually gets physical custody no matter how irresponsible and then systematically alienates the children against the dad) A young man would be an absolute FOOL to get married in this climate where you can be sued for "breech of contract" if you break an engagement with a potentially gold digging fiancee. glennsacks.com

    • Posted By: dharmaa @ 09/08/2008 12:30:40 AM

      Be prepared for providing room and board for your young son well into your golden years.

  • Posted By: el211 @ 09/04/2008 4:02:21 PM

    You say, "women have crashed just about all the old male haunts, and are showing some signs of outpacing their husbands and boyfriends as breadwinners and heads of family, at least in urban centers. Last year, researchers at Queens College in New York determined that women between 21 and 30 in at least five major cities, including Dallas, Chicago and New York, have not only made up the wage gap since 1970???they now earn upwards of 15 percent more than their male counterparts. As a result, many men feel redundant." It sounds like you're suggesting that the entrance of women into the workforce is a bad thing/destroying the family, when most of these men probably have mothers who work. Maybe women don't want to marry these insecure losers.

  • Posted By: Mosie2713 @ 09/06/2008 11:45:00 AM

    I want to know what the source was for the wage-gap data that you cited... It's interesting to me that if women have come so far and are now earning more that men, it hasn't been better publicized. News to me!

  • Posted By: AllSmiles @ 09/06/2008 10:30:32 AM

    I've always wondered what would happen if women refused to have sex outside of marriage. Wonder how many men would be ready to settle down at 25?!

  • Posted By: GKorff @ 09/03/2008 8:17:09 AM

    I'm married, 25, with a daughter, about to start a career as an attorney. None of my close friends are married, and I don't want them to be. I don't wish I was still in college, or regret any of my decisions whatsoever, but I don't want to talk to them about their kids, their wives, or their views on domesticity. None of those things are interesting to other people. I want to talk to them about the things that we actually do discuss: Politics, literature, music, economic issues, and yes, how often they are getting laid. And with respect to the part of the article regarding 20-somethings not being able to start their careers, I went to a state school, and all my friends are working in either sales, finance, accounting, or some other similarly lucrative and career oriented position. They're happy--they don't want to rush into anything. This is a good thing. Divorce rates are high because people aren't ready for marriage when they get married. It's far better to wait for the right person than to rush in, have a kid, and then create a bad situation not only for yourself, but for your child. "Guyland" is by far the better alternative.

    • Posted By: NickiDrea @ 09/05/2008 11:11:25 PM

      Honestly... I have some news for you. I became a lawyer when I was 24 years old. I am now 26 (female) and I have been practicing for two years. I respect your enthusiasm and I wish you luck in your career as an attorney; however,you should be aware of what the climate is like for attorneys today. Being a parent and spouse as a young attorney are NOT attributes that law firms/organizations are seeking in their employees. Family pressures are looked down upon for men and women in the profession. They would rather that you be single with no children because you have more time for work. Your fellow attorneys who don't have outside commitments like kids will use that to their advantage,putting in the extra hours that you can't, getting the raises, promotions, etc. This profession is dog eat dog and unfortunately a lot of lawyers' marriages break up (we have one of the highest divorce rates in our profession) because outside relationships almost seem discouraged by employers. To be honest don't see how I could be a lawyer at my age with a child and reach my career goals. I don't even see when I can fit having them in,and I'm not even a big firm lawyer. I recently went from private practice to public defense and my schedule was crazy both places. My friends from law school live the exact same lives as me. I hope you like the profession,disturbingly most lawyers I know hate their profession and are very cynical people. That's probably why we have such high divorce rates, honestly.

  • Posted By: jmiklovic @ 09/05/2008 11:52:09 AM

    People may rail against this article all they want but it is true, and the comments of some of the people here are pathetic. First off, women are not objects of pleasure to be used for a weekend and then discarded. Alcohol in moderation may be acceptable, but to get constantly plastered and make a fool out of yourself, your friends and your family is well... also foolish. Then again... who cares about anyone else. God forbid we become 'mediocre', and put someone else before ourselves. This was a good article and some of the comments show how pathetic our society has become.

    • Posted By: JonathanLB @ 09/05/2008 6:19:17 PM

      I think it's pathetic that you think somehow other people should be put before you, when there is no reality without the self. It's folly to put other people's interests before your own. You will never achieve anything great by doing that, just a life of service as a mediocre tool, a cog in the machine.

    • Posted By: MetalXSlug @ 09/05/2008 12:47:56 PM

      I don't think you understand or give women enough credit. They want sex without relationships as much as the guys do nowadays. Not all, but enough so that people can have all the sex they want without worrying about a family to take care of. Nowadays if you are in your early 20's, heck even mid and late 20's and are married with kids you are seen as a loser. Somebody who decided they couldn't find anyone better and decided to get married right away because they were afraid they would be left alone.

  • Posted By: Martha K @ 09/05/2008 6:03:52 PM

    As a newcomer to the United States and an expectant mother, I was shocked by the parenting style and education that has been prevalent in the United States for the last 20-30 years: pills instead of discipline; constant supervision and pampering; no responsibilities for the children; disdain for good grades and interest in science and arts by schoolchildren; shielding kids from any criticism; sex at early age; drugs; videogames instead of reading books and playing outside, etc. I wondered how the kids raised this way would turn out as adults. Now I see. Thanks God my American husband is in his late 30s.

  • Posted By: EE7011 @ 09/05/2008 1:38:16 PM

    If you are modeling you life after Glenn Quagmire or Carrie Bradshaw...YIKES!

  • Posted By: shownonono @ 09/03/2008 10:48:07 AM

    if this generation is "less likely to read a newspaper, attend church, vote for president or believe that people are basically trustworthy, helpful and fair" it's because those things have been ruined by the Baby Boomers that came before them.

    • Posted By: jmiklovic @ 09/05/2008 12:14:29 PM

      this comment is pathetic. It is so typical of people in this 20 something age group to blame the boomers for their twisted life. Grow up!! Yes I am 27, and have been married three years, no 'Guyland' offers nothing desirable for me.

    • Posted By: atticus8 @ 09/03/2008 8:54:51 PM

      I agree with your comment so bad, it hurts. I was going to post a longer reply, but it disappeared when I switched tabs to find a statistic I needed. Foreign policy, religion, marriage, domestic policy, "civil debate", and the faith in the common Good of the common man? The Boomers have extracted all the can from this country and they want still more - while droning on about "how much better it used to be". There is this commercial (I forget the product) that runs now that sums it up nicely: "The generation that swore they never got old.... didn't." Then it shows a bunch of Boomers acting, basically, like grown-up versions of Guyville. Not even the Boomers want to live in the world they created!
      It's called "counter-identification". The best way to avoid the atrocious mess the Boomers have made of the country is to try and do the opposite they do. It's not a political thing, either: you see both sides of the aisle (stereotypes that were forced upon us by... guess who?) in the younger generation reaching out to new political alternatives, because it's a whole world-view (and a terrible hypocrisy) the younger generation is rejection, not just a specific position.

  • Posted By: ABP210 @ 09/05/2008 10:06:39 AM

    What Tony doesn't mention is some of the facts around rates of divorce with people in their mid and late 20's getting married compared to people who wait until their early to mid 30's. I have many friends like the ones described in this article, and the fact is they either can't handle that lifestyle anymore as they get to 30 or they just start feeling the need to settle down more. I think that most of the guys above, the technology consultant, the Emory Grad, will actually be married by the time they are 35. So what if they want to stick to the fun, single lifestyle in the prime of their life. It's better than most men who settle someone who might not be the woman of their dreams just to get married and settle down early.

  • Posted By: thehighroller @ 09/05/2008 10:01:04 AM

    Thanks for this article. I'm about as far to the other side of the spectrum as you get: out of the house by 19, virgin until marriage, married at 22, a father at 24, and home owner at 25. I've found that joy is deepened by responsibility. The thought of a life where my happiness would be tied to alcohol, multiple sex partners and freedom from commitments is pretty depressing compared to the incredible happiness and satifaction I've found in loving and serving my wife and son.

  • Posted By: ageless1 @ 09/04/2008 10:34:24 PM

    What man in his right mind wants to sign his life away willingy to the grind of marriage, stress filled job regardless of how much money it pays, only to come home to hear about how bad his wife has it. The times have changed in the last 30+ years It's just not the same as it was back then.

  • Posted By: ageless1 @ 09/04/2008 10:26:21 PM

    Who really wants to grow up in a world like this anyways! The morals and values of 30yrs ago are not the standards of this day in age it's just not. It's wrong of society mainly the older generations to place their expectations of how we the younger generation of men should be, act, or participate in society as far as jobs, marriage , family, religion, income..ect. As far as women taking over the work place of higher paying jobs by all means I say let them have it.

  • Posted By: cwhank @ 09/04/2008 4:13:32 PM

    No reference to the divorce rate?

    This article assumes that the goal for all men is security and stability and it's those two things that lead to "happiness". No thanks, I'm a 29 year old account exec at a tech company with a masters degree, my own house and my own car. I tried the "live with girlfriend/dog" route and it's boring. Go ahead and get married, more women for me.

    Face it, you're getting married b/c you can't get laid otherwise.

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