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A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern

A McCain ad wrongly claims Obama plans "painful tax increases" for working families. And who's talking about deficits?

By Emi Kolawole | factcheck.org
Sep 2, 2008 | Updated: 9:16  p.m. ET Sep 2, 2008

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  • Posted By: njcbasketball @ 10/14/2008 2:08:29 PM

    fair: everyone pays the same tax amount
    fair with compassion: we use a tax rate so the people with more money pay proportionate to their income
    Fair with a TON of compassion: we use a PROGRESSIVE tax RATE so the rich pay EVEN MORE of the taxes
    STUPID and bad for the U.S.A: a more progressive rate than we have now. we don't want to be socialistic

  • Posted By: Indy Pat @ 09/11/2008 11:13:27 PM

    Is it my imagination or is Mr. Gregory leaning toward the McCain/.Palin team?

  • Posted By: eric olson @ 09/09/2008 8:11:06 PM

    Sorry, has this worked???
    Eric Olson
    eolson589@hotmail.com

  • Posted By: eric olson @ 09/09/2008 8:09:24 PM

    This is terrific that we may be finally gleaned from arch conservativism!!!
    Eric Olson

  • Posted By: Not A Criminal @ 09/06/2008 12:25:50 AM

    Having lived in Arizona for over thirty years all I know is that John McCain was one of the 'Keating Five' busted in the Savings and Loan scandal and that we're still paying for that scam in our state taxes. McCain is collecting my tax money for being a Senator and he hasn't voted on anything in years; too busy campaigning. You try not showing up for work for two years while continuing to spend the salary. As far as the budget is concerned McCain has already outspent his allotment under the Clean Campaign financing plan that he committed to. He can't manage his own wallet but he's going to balance the budget?

  • Posted By: faminchin @ 09/03/2008 1:59:46 PM

    If the average family saves $1,118 a year on their taxes, and Obama's tax plan causes a Big Mac to cost $10, is there really a savings? Obama plans to raise taxes on businesses. And are we suppose to believe that business will just absorb this additional expense in taxes? Raise taxes on business, and who do you think pays the tax increase? Seriously? We will pay the tax increase everytime we buy something from a business! Is that so hard to understand?

    • Posted By: dlboggan @ 09/04/2008 2:00:46 PM

      I doubt, to the extreme, that McDonalds would ever raise the cost of the burgers to $10. They value their customer too much. There is a point at which corporations will need to choose, "less" profits vs. keeping the customer. The bottom line is affected by maintaining demand and balanced with cost of sales including the taxes. It all balance out sometime. Corporations need to pay their fair share and not demand such huge profits at the sake of the needs of society. The moment that you deny the needs of society is the moment that you lose your humanity. Corporations are by no means human no matter how much the courts try to say they are. They have no soul, ....... you do....

      • Posted By: jodel @ 09/05/2008 11:08:14 AM

        First off....what is a "small business" to John Mccain? I live in a small town of 5500 people, own a small business and by no means make over 45K a year. More than 48% of my income goes to overhead and taxes with taxes at about 34% of the debt. Pay out $1056 in tax libility debt???? Give me a break!!!!! By the way did anyone notice the couple of protesters last nite at the RNC who were refered to as "noise on the floor" by Mccain. This is typical "Bush". Just another winey spoiled american. Then to stand up for "John Doe" in some state who lost all his real-estate property this year in bad investments and is now having to work like hell like the rest of most americans!!!! It is nothing for me to clear 50 to 70 hours a week. Please..if you have enough money to invest in real-estate you are not in middle income bracket to begin with. Oh that's right..middle income in less than $5,000,000 according to John Mccain!!!!! After our family netted out at $27K last year....we made $3K dollars too much for financial aid to put our son thru college. Not to mention I paid $5,600 dollars out of pocket for insurance premiums on a "employer sponsored insurance program". People..I am the real average american!!!! Caught in the middle!! Go Obama!!!

    • Posted By: ApostasyUSA @ 09/03/2008 2:06:17 PM

      Do your self a favor and just stick to the facts.

      McCain's Small-Business Bunk.

      He claims 23 million small-business owners would pay higher tax rates under Obama. He's wrong. The vast majority would see no change, and many would get a cut.

      http://www.newsweek.com/id/146210

      • Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/03/2008 2:50:18 PM

        I'm glad you posted from a fair and balance source .... NOT! liberal news bias....

        • Posted By: DavidCA @ 09/03/2008 8:55:11 PM

          bojack27, you mock Newsweek as "fair and balanced .... NOT!" Um, you're on the Newsweek web site, my friend. What are you doing here? If you don't like it here, go back to Fox News, where they believe McCain's lie that Obama plans to raise taxes on the middle class..

          • Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/04/2008 9:56:14 AM

            When a source is given from a bias forum then it is not fair and balance period... I know where I'm at and I come here to refute the idiotic claims that you democrats love to make against the republicans..... last time I check this was America and I have the right to be here.... this is not an Islamic Nation yet as you and the Obamanation want it to be.....

            • Posted By: dlboggan @ 09/04/2008 1:58:00 PM

              bojack27: Woooo, hold on there partner. So you believe that the only good American is a republican one. Wow, how unAmerican could you be. For you to suggest that all Democrats are bent toward Islam is darn right, well, foolish and insulting to us Christian Democrats. Your not even a true republican. Just a jerk with a poor education. Most of the lies and fabrications that you attribute to Democrats have been coming out of Republican mouths. Accusing someone of something does not make them so. Read the information from all sides not just your own. Get an education and become the American you claim to be. You are no patriot if you need to tear town other Americans to prove yourself as one.

              • Posted By: lesforobama @ 09/04/2008 3:15:33 PM

                THANK YOU AND WELL WRITTEN dlboggan!

    • Posted By: dlboggan @ 09/04/2008 1:47:55 PM

      I doubt, to the extreme, that McDonalds would ever raise the cost of the burgers to $10. They value their customer too much. There is a point at which corporations will need to choose, "less" profits vs. keeping the customer. The bottom line is affected by maintaining demand and balanced with cost of sales including the taxes. It all balance out sometime. Corporations need to pay their fair share and not demand such huge profits at the sake of the needs of society. The moment that you deny the needs of society is the moment that you lose your humanity. Corporations are by no means human no matter how much the courts try to say they are. They have no soul, ....... you do....

  • Posted By: starbucksjunke @ 09/03/2008 2:32:42 AM

    The Rupublicant's had the last 8 years to prove themselves... and the fact that their party and their #1&#2 Bush/Cheney got us into the mess in iraq when we shouldnt have been there in the first place says tons about their leadership, judgement and dishonesty in our country..

    If it was country first than we should have never been sold that iraq attacked us and we would never have had our sons, daughters, fathers and mothers dying over there..

    If it was country first than we would have taken care of our people when Katrina destroyed New Orleans.

    "Heck of a job Brownie.." "Mission Accomplished.."

    Yeah if it only was country first... .

    Too bad none of the neocon, conservative pea brains will own up how much they screwed this country. If it was country first... they take themselves out of the drivers seat and let someone who can drive take the wheel.

    Country First.. such crap spewing from a conservative trap makes me sick.

    • Posted By: mcdeere72 @ 09/04/2008 1:02:40 PM

      Themselves????? Congress and Senate are owned now by what majority? Oh, that leadership thats so bad???? Yeah the invasion of Iraq was voted on and most agreed until they saw the way was hard.

      • Posted By: cargoyle @ 09/04/2008 2:57:43 PM

        Correct me if I'm wrong but the Dems only have a majority in the Senate by 2 and that's if you count Lieberman. And we now know which side he's on after his ridiculously boring speech the other night. Can't due much if both sides don't cooperate now can we??
        I'd like to know know when the majority of this country wakes up and realizes that it's the rich against the poor (no more middle class) and it doesn't take a genuis to realize what side the politicians are on!!!!

        • Posted By: mcdeere72 @ 09/04/2008 4:22:03 PM

          Democrats do control both the House and Senate. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/04/AR2007010400802.html This was dated Jan. 5 2007. Did you find Lieberman boring because he was at our convention or because he stated items you don't agree with? The politicians, (both parties) are just like the rest of us as far as wanting the best for them and thiers, just they have the ability to affect it much more. Speaking engagements, lobbyists and how many people in America can give themselves a raise?

    • Posted By: Justmy2cents @ 09/03/2008 11:22:03 AM

      I will state this clearly because I take the very seriously. I get very mad when people say we should never have been in IRAQ. My father died on 9/11. I am continually sickened by people who have forgotten the anger we felt that day as a nation and I have not forgotten I will never forget. I for one will not vote for anyone like Obama who is willing to forget. God bless our soldiers. God bless Bush for doing what is not popular but is right.

      • Posted By: cdld7e @ 09/03/2008 11:40:36 AM

        IRAQ HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. THEY WERE NEVER A THREAT TO US. IF YOU TRULY CARED ABOUT OUR SOLDIERS YOU WOULD WANT THEM HOME.

        • Posted By: mcdeere72 @ 09/04/2008 12:48:33 PM

          I have been there and I can say I want all the troops home once the job is done. Where is all the failure rhetoric now that the surge has worked and the Iraqis are taking the job over from us? I mean it seems things make headlines when it's classified a failure and when it turns to success the story goes away? That isn't a media slant or anything.

        • Posted By: pearsoncrz @ 09/03/2008 11:53:04 AM

          There is a clear benefit, now that we are there, to making sure we leave a secure and stable Iraq when we exit the theater -- and BTW, I did NOT support the invasion of Iraq, one of the few who was speaking out against it in letters to the editor, etc.

          We can not afford to leave a political power vacuum in the area. That would only help terrorists. We can not afford to allow an ongoing civil war to continue or to leave a government that is too weak to address terrorist activities. We got out of Afghanistan too early after supporting their efforts against the USSR, and should have learned some lessons from that experience.

          Interestingly, Obama even admits that we need a continued presence in Iraq long beyond 2009. Here are some quotes from Obama:

          "We need to focus our attention on how to reduce the U.S. military footprint in Iraq. Notice I say reduce' and not 'fully withdraw.'" Barack Obama, Nov. 22, 2005

          "I believe that we should have all our troops out [of Iraq] by 2013 but I don???t want to make promises." Barack Obama, Sep. 26, 2007

      • Posted By: froy1100 @ 09/03/2008 11:52:42 AM

        Man, Saddam had nothing to do with 911. That was Bin Laden. It was time somebody told you.

      • Posted By: Newsweekbhg @ 09/03/2008 11:46:57 AM

        So the guy in front of you punches you in the face so you turn around and punch the guy behind you an say later on "you will never forget what the guy in front of you did". Makes sense....

  • Posted By: max in fl @ 09/04/2008 4:17:37 PM

    The Democrats and the Republicans are both talking about tax cuts and alternative energy.

    This elections really boils down to whether or not we continue to fund this war and whether or not we reverse roe v wade.

  • Posted By: max in fl @ 09/04/2008 4:12:57 PM

    What I love is that McCain takes CREDIT for only the surge. Bush also took credit for the same thing...hmmm. The war and the economy was only Bush's fault..

    I don't have to wonder if McCain would take the credit if the economy WAS strong and we DID end the war.

  • Posted By: tiredoflies @ 09/03/2008 4:15:24 PM

    These republicans can do NOTHING BUT LIE. and there lying about the same thing over and over. It is utterly sickening that there supporters are okay with this.

    They have got to be voted out this election or this country will continue its downward spiral and is through as a respected nation of the world.

    MCAIN IS WAR WAITING TO HAPPEN.


    And now on top of the lies, MCCAIN AND THE GOP ARE ATTEMPTING TO SQUELCH FREE SPEECH as related to Palin???s qualifications and McCains hurried and very unwise VP pick.

    • Posted By: mcdeere72 @ 09/04/2008 12:35:09 PM

      Squelch free speech, I missed that part last night? Can you elighten us that weren't watching the same show you were? Why is it that everyone forgets that the Congress and Senate are controlled and have been for the last 1.5 years by the DEMOCRATS? Remember the people that thought it more important to go on vacation than deal with the gas prices?

      • Posted By: dlboggan @ 09/04/2008 2:18:00 PM

        mcdeere72: You need to get headlights out of your eyes. Free speech in regards to Palin's life and policies. The same free speach that th Replicans demanded when they insisted that we know the truth from the Clintons while they were in office. Palin needs no less scrutiny. The Legislature has a "slim" majority for Democrats but has been nullified on an "extreme" basis by repuplican fillibustering which allows no abilities to pass anything no approved by the Republicans. As tor the gas prices? Why should the Democrats stick around to give more to the multinational energy companies that want nothing more then more power over what you put in your gas tanks and find every reason possible to raise prices but never any reasons to lower them. Tell me, have your gas prices changed or goin down since Bush has been in poiwer? Only now do you see a lowering of prices, coincidentally just before Bush/Cheny and friends want McCain to be elected. Believe me, if McCain is elected, your gas prices will go back up and even higher.

        • Posted By: mcdeere72 @ 09/04/2008 3:52:47 PM

          Obama himself said that her family is off limits, so yes, Republicans and your nominee both said her family issues shouldn't be dragged through the mud. OK so why would Congress staying in session give to the oil companies again? So, because the gas prices increased during Bush's term that makes it his fault? Who got blamed the last time this happened? I only ask because I wasn't old enough to be aware of it. So if McCain gets elected than gas prices go up and if Obama wins what happens, prices go down? LOL Thats a good one, if we don't find an alternative or start our own drilling than we'll always be in this case, no matter what party is in office. As for the Clintons, truth in office? I don't think we'll be here when we get the truth in this lifetime.

  • Posted By: cargoyle @ 09/04/2008 3:17:59 PM

    My thoughts are this the middle class is already gone, we just need to save the country from getting lost in the new world market economy. Forget healthcare for all, if we don't control immigration it system will break down and won't be there for any of us. Of course their (illegal) pay roll taxes will ensure that I may see some of my Social Security but that a helluva reason to leave the borders wide open. Which brings us to National Security, are we really safe from the terrorist if some Mexican can enter the country whenever they chose too?? That's not racist that's just me looking to have our laws upheld. Some many probs where do we start????

  • Posted By: cargoyle @ 09/04/2008 3:03:09 PM

    Sorry i was misunderstood, I'm a huge Obama fan (formerly Ron Paul supporter)

  • Posted By: pearsoncrz @ 09/04/2008 2:48:43 PM

    If Obama raises the tax rate on the gain from the sale of a home. It won't matter what your income is, because that income will be taxed at a higher rate.

    Ditto your retirement savings that you have invested in the stock market. Sell it and you have to pay tax on the gains. It doesn't matter what your income level is.

    If anyone thought Fact Check's reports weren't being slanted toward Obama, this should give them pause.

    • Posted By: dlboggan @ 09/04/2008 2:59:06 PM

      And I suppose you think the McCain will do anything better then this. I think not and more likely he will make it worse to help pay for his wars.

  • Posted By: Ilar @ 09/04/2008 1:28:32 PM

    Congress and Senate are owned by lobbyist. The surge is working after how many of the finest young men and women? Did so many have to die to get a surge? Why didn't the GOP listen to McCain at the start of the Iraqi war? Because, they did not believe in him, and neither should the American people. For 1 and1/2 years the house of Representatives had a Democrat majority, but not in the Senate, so nothing could be done, because a threat of a filibuster from the Republicans. John McCain is in early stage of senility and lets be certain that we not rush to set this young mother in motion to become the next BIG REPUBLICAN MISTAKE in case MCCain bites the dust.

  • Posted By: pearsoncrz @ 09/03/2008 11:48:48 AM

    If Obama raises the tax rate on capitol gains, he would be increasing the taxes on the sale of a home. It won't matter what your income is, because capitol gains are treated separately.

    If anyone thought Fact Check's reports weren't being slanted toward Obama, this should give them pause.

    • Posted By: cheesehead @ 09/04/2008 1:23:56 PM

      You need to read the IRS publication. Home sale gains are not treated like gains on investments.

    • Posted By: cheesehead @ 09/04/2008 1:21:49 PM

      You don't understand the tax code. The gain from the sale of your home is treated separately from investment gains. Read the IRS Publication.

  • Posted By: Stimpygato @ 09/04/2008 11:23:15 AM

    Methinks the facts do not matter to the McCain/Palin pitbulls with lipstick.
    They are convinced that he's a Muslim terrorist. That the Iraq War is Just & Godly (I can't count the times bloggers ave stated that we are at war with Islam.... really???). And ,that the Democrats are really just Liberals in disguise, and that the Liberals are really just Socialists with Flag Pins, and the Socialists without Flag-pins are card carrying Marxists.

    Why? Because it's easier to hate your enemy if you don't really listen.

  • Posted By: sebr01stl @ 09/04/2008 10:37:45 AM

    bojack, I don't know who you are or what was posted before that you call yourself responding to, but factcheck IS fair and balanced; and, Democrats don't have to make claims against Republicans. All we have to do is look at the state of things after you've left office (or before, even), aka Bill Clinton vs. "W," with regards to the economy and the national budget. The facts speak for themselves. And how do you think that the National Deficit will be repaid without taxes being rased across the board - (which won't happen this time, as both Obama's plans and McCain's will increase the Deficit with the alternative energy plans alone; and, Obama's plan to raise taxes on the rich, gives a tax cut to the middle class, not an increase in their taxes, while McCain plans to continue to give tax cuts to the wealthy and raise no one's taxes)? It's not that Republicans don't spend like "tax and spend liberal Dems;" it's that they only want to spend on war, and give more money to the wealthy and the corporations who outsource middle class jobs, crippling the very backbone that supports the nation. When the middle class goes (becoming poor), some of you rich will be considered 'new' middle class, until, eventually there will be only two classes: rich and poor, with the poor way outnumbering the rich. I thought pilgrims left Europe to get away from that class system of countries of poor being governed by a small group of the wealthy: royalty, and to practice freedom of, and from, religion, not just the WASP "Christianity of the right-wing, conservative evangelicals of the GOP. And you guys call Obama cosmopolitan and European. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Furthermore, continuing to post the muslim lies is not refuting idiotic claims with facts; it's MAKING them.

  • Posted By: cm4297 @ 09/04/2008 10:28:43 AM

    McCain is steadily handing Obama the keys to the White House..First, the election of Sarah "Token" Palin puts him closer to the door. Then, allowing Palin to speak further shows how bigoted the party is. Next, his same old attacks are just that...old.

  • Posted By: ttnewton @ 09/03/2008 1:40:42 AM

    I'm "wealthy". That's right, I'm in that despised 1% of Americans who pays 40% of the nation's income taxes. Besides the ire of all my more-equal-than-others communist comrades, what do I get in return for paying arguably 40 times my share of the tax burden? Today I stood in line 1 hour at the DMV. Just like everyone else. The other day I called 911, and was put on hold. Just like everyone else. Will 40 firetrucks come to my door if I call in an alarm? No. Do I get 40 times more police patrols through my neighborhood, or 40 times better streets? No. Quite the opposite, actually. Do I get to cast 40 votes? Wrong again. I get only one vote, just like everyone else.

    Here's the special treatment I get for paying more taxes than 40 of my fellow taxpayers put together: No PEL grants or discount loans for MY kid's college tuition. No tax exemptions for MY dependents. No tax deductions for MY charitable contributions or family health expenses. No tax deductions for MY mortgage interest payments. The list goes on, and it's growing annually.

    The average American thinks that high-income earners skate by, while in fact we pay FAR more than our fair share of taxes. Sure there are tax scofflaws who stand out when they come to light. But as a group (and as for me, personally) our tax burden is far from just. If we are really for tax justice, then we should stop believing the big lie that any tax reduction must be fair, providing that it reduces taxes for anyone but the "wealthy".

    If you're an "average" American, maybe the next time you see a high-income earner you could try thanking him for paying your taxes for you, instead of demanding he pay even more. Of course, he might be hard to spot if he drives a 15 year old beat-up Ford like mine.

    Oh. And if I had those 40 votes, they'd all go to McCain/Palin.

    • Posted By: realpages @ 09/03/2008 6:06:23 PM

      ttnewton, I don't know where you earn your money, but I can tell that logic and math are unimportant to how you earn it. Paying out 40% of your taxable income does not mean that you pay 40 times what the other 99% of Americans pay. Please, the next time you think about posting, first see if can simply count 40. Then, if you can handle that, don't post.

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