With an eye on Georgia, Kashmiris once again entertain the prospect of independence. It's not a good idea.
Comment: I know this is off topic, but as a Sikh I would love to see Khalistan become a reality, but at the same time I believe there is way too many hypocrites for Khalistan to become a reality.
Comment: If Kashmiris are allowed to create a separate state of Kashmir then Sikhs will demand the right to form Khalistan. I only recently started reading about Indian politics in the past few years. After I became a Sikh, I developed an interest in India in general. I really don't know very much about Kashmiri history, but honestly I think Kashmir breaking away from India will merely create war and bloodshed. This doesn't neccesarily mean that I don't believe the Kashmiris have a right to an independant state, because as I have said earlier I know vewry little about Kashmiri history. Anyone who claims India is a true secular democracy is in denial, India has come a long way, but there is still much work to be done. What about the various times the Sikhs have been persecuted? My people have fought and died to make India free, and not only India, the Sikhs have bravely fought in the world wars to keep the world free. What about the Christians being persecuted at this very moment?
Comment: Kashmir is part of India,the Indian army need to go in and clear out all those millitants and return it's lands to indians.All of Kashmir belong's to India.Those people are just too ungratefull, let them go to Pakistan if they not happy there.give one year to shape up or ship them out.!!
Comment: The per capita income of kashmiries is highest than any of Indian state.The developement parameters of Indian Kashmir are way above of occupied Kashmir.The Indian Muslim community is against independant Kashmir.Indian government never encouraged majority community to migrate into Kashmir to make the Muslim majority a minority as China has been doing in the neighbouring state of Sinkiang of China..The Hindu minority in Kashmir is being thrown out of Kashmir by Muslim terrorists in Hindu majority India.Kashmir belongs to India with a seperate status.If terrorists fight for 1000 years with the help of Pakistan .cannot India fight for2000 years .What is more sacred than the borders of yeur country?
Comment: In the age of global integration, discussing ideas of secession look silly. History has shown that redrawing borders also brings unavoidable human suffering and irreparable loss and grief. India, Pakistan and Kashmir in particular should know better; they have suffered the agony of the division of united India in 1947 when millions were displaced and killed.
In an effort to discuss the dispute in Kashmir, the authors have failed to include 'entire' Kashmir; including the lands with India (Jammu, Ladakh and the valley), Pakistan (Pak Occupied Kashmir, Northern Areas) and China (Aksai Chin). All areas must be discussed if there is ever going to be ever lasting peace in the region. Singling India for a poor record in human rights is short-sighted when blatant violations of human rights are also committed in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir.
Not independence, but more autonomy to the Kashmiris is the best solution in given circumstances.
Comment:
Waheed-
Your comments look as ridiculous as the authors' calling Pakistan, the regional power. Pakistan is a real pain in India's b~tt.
Pakistan can never dream of liberating J&K from India; enjoying the prosperous Kashmiri pizza. If you don't like a country, you better flee. Period!
There're thousands of Non-American-White kids born in USA every year.
Can they try to secede the country by states because they were born here, follow different beliefs, and don't want to live united any more????
Sound wierd, right?
I felt the same after reading your article.
Comment: Your argument doesn't make any sense and is completely disjointed. Kashmiris didn't just arrive there a few years ago and decide to have children and then want to secede. Kashmir is their established homeland. If you can take your jingoistic hat off for a moment to realize this, it would help clarify the situation for you. India is in possession of land that never legally belong to it. It looks like that you feel Kashmir should just belong to India simply because of your Indian nationalism, not based on any objective standards.
Comment: Misleading write-up on Kashmir
This is in reference to a write-up published in your magazine of September 3, 2008 Dreams of independence by Sumit Ganguly and Kanti Bajpai. The first point I want to put forth is that the people of Kashmir are not secessionists and their struggle must not be described as intended to secede Jammu and Kashmir from India. The discourse of secession could arise if Jammu and Kashmir would have been a part of India, whereas from all standards of law and international jurisprudence, it has never been so. It is clearly a case of invasion by India as its troops, on October 27 1947 occupied Jammu and Kashmir quite contrary to Kashmiris??? aspirations and in clear contravention of the Partition Plan of South Asian Sub-Continent. In view of the UN charter and the resolutions of the Security Council on Kashmir, the dispute basically involves the people???s right to self-determination.
If the writers have problems in using the words like genocide and extermination then the onus of responsibility lies on them as how to explain the killings of over ninety thousand Kashmiris by Indian troops during the last nineteen years. It has now been established by several independent probes that the occupation authorities have been engaged in killing people in fake encounters and custody. We should not lose sight of the fact that lately over nine hundred un-named graves have been discovered by a non-governmental organization in a sector called Uri. The European Parliament has passed a resolution to this effect while denouncing the human rights violations by Indian troops.
It is an eyewash that New Delhi has taken remedial measures by court-marshalling army officers for human rights abuses. Such announcements have indeed been made by the Indian government also but it could be appropriate if the writers had mentioned some specific cases in this regard. The fact is that the acts of terrorism in Indian held Kashmir are not being committed by the troops in their individual capacity but strictly under the orders of the authorities and in line with a pre-meditated plan to intimidate the people of Kashmir to submission.
The morality demands that India is asked to give Kashmiris their inalienable right to self-determination and immediately stop its state-terrorism.
Waheed Ahmed,
Islamabad.
Comment: Your views resonate with the Pakistani perception of the Kashmir issue - often exaggerated coupled with flawed accounts of history. Here are few of my views,
1) Your claim that Kashmir is an Indian occupied territory is wrong. UN has accepted this as a bi-lateral issue between India and Pakistan. No other credible organization besides Pakistan (and terrorist organizations) calls Kashmiri separatists as freedom fighters. Morever, the accession to India was signed by the Maharaja of Kashmir ???after??? the Pakistani Raiders invaded Kashmir to capture Srinagar. This violated the stand-still agreement between the Maharaja, India and Pakistan. The Raiders behaved like beasts with no respect for human lives - looting cities, raping women and killing innocents. The Indian troops kicked them out until the UN got involved at the behest of the British.
2) Jammu and Kashmir cannot be divided on the lines of religion because it is an extremely diverse region with a medley of communities such as, Gujjars, Dogras, Bakarwals, Buddhists, Kashmiri Pandits and various Islamic sects. There everyone has a diverse opinion which ranges from secession to autonomy; but no one has a clear majority. Besides the Hurriat party no one wants secession.
3) The number of human rights violations are grossly overstated in your comment, however I condemn such acts. No one disagrees that Pakistan has always resorted to violence in an attempt to redraw borders in Kashmir. Despite taking remedial measures, calling India an abuser of human rights is no different than pot calling the kettle black. To read Pakistan talking about morality is also hypocritical; especially when there are blatant violations of human rights in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, Northern Areas and Balochistan among others.
4) The right of self -determination for the Kashmiris cannot be limited to those living in the valley. For lasting peace, the people living in Jammu and Kashmir must be given a voice. This includes the lands under the control of India (Jammu, Ladakh and the valley), Pakistan (Pak Occupied Kashmir, Northern Areas) and China (Aksai Chin).
Comment: separation of pakistan, bangla desh, kosovo have brought terrorism in this world. world should be aware of this and be protective. india has much bigger responsibilty to fight terrorism in south asia and elsewhere. indian security system needs to be much stronger and effective. if every indians, whether they are in delhi or in indian kashmir,need to be very observant and cautious to fight terrism effectively through both nonvilint methods and diplomacy. every indians should remember, no matter where they are that they are politically more free than any other countries' people. for the indian subcontinent people to be truly free, they should become together , be united and be a part of greater india to serve the people locally and nationally.
Comment: kashmir like many other princely states are part of hidustan or bharat. inhabitants were hindus. for the last 300 to 500 years in many parts of india , islam and other religins grew through invasion, trade and forced conversion. but hindustan still covered from afganistan to burma and from srilanka to tibet. during british rule, burma, srilanka, tibet were separed from india, then pakistan and bangla desh were also separated. mahatma gandhi stoppewd further fragmentation of india through nonviolence and peaceful means. it is hoped, that the indian subcontinent will be united again to maintain secular ideologies and political and religious freedom for. martin luther king of usa through his nonviolence method kept the united state united, otherwise 19th century civil war would have continued and dived the the on racial issues. nonvilene methods can only keep the indian subcontinent united. democray, peace, religious tolerance, legal system, economic prosperity and individual freedom are spreading across all neighboring countries through india peoples' nobel minds and through india's secular govt. eventually, indian subcontinent will be free from perrorism, fanaticism and extremist for people in the subcontinnt to be truly free in all r4espects, otherewise terrorism will grow. .
Comment: What is with indians and denying facts? Kashmir was never a part of india and please, look up some history books before you write another intellectual article like this.
Comment: muf32chosen: At the time of independence, Kashmir was a princely state like many others. We all know that. Because of the politics of the sub-continent Kashmir is now divided among India, Pakistan and China. According to you if India cannot have its share of right to Kashmir; in the same token neither do Pakistan and China.
Comment: In regards to this article, I am pleased that Newsweek chose to post such a stimulating and knowledgeable article on the current situation in Kashmir. Here's hoping we hear more from Sumit Ganguly and Kanti Bajpai!
Comment: At the time of Partition, the genreal idea was for Pakistan to be formed for all Muslims from the subcontinent and to comprise of all Muslim-majority areas. Therefore, Pakistan's argument that Kashmir should be a part of its country has some merit. Moreover, they even might have agreed for Jammu and Ladakh to stay with India. Transfer or Kashmir and the rest of the Muslims in India over to Pakistan seems one solution. This need not be achieved overnight but over a period of time, say, a transfer 100,000 persons plus 100 sq.km. of territory at one time. If this had started 60 years back, Kashmir and entire Muslim population would have been in Pakistan, rather than both being divided between the two feuding nations.
If only Kashmir were to be transferred to Pakistan, this would mean handing over India to right-wing Hindu parties who would ensure misery for the remaining Muslims in india for eternity. If it were to remain in India, it would mean dealing with an unhappy populace in Kashmir and endless bomb-blasts in the rest of the nation. It is very unlikely the Kashmiri Muslim people would ever be happy living in India even if their living standards improved suddenly. Their main wish is to be governed by Sharia, and not common law, which an Indian Constituition would never be able to be provide.
This option is something that should be considered with calm and logic instead of nationalistic and religious jingoism.
Comment: Your argument may have good intentions however, it is based on weak assumptions. If you desire an out of the box solution to the dispute in Kashmir, then the 'entire' Kashmir must be considered; including the lands with India (Jammu, Ladakh and the valley), Pakistan (Pak Occupied Kashmir, Northern Areas) and China (Aksai Chin). All the areas must be discussed if there is going to be ever lasting peace in the region.
Jammu and Kashmir cannot be divided on the lines of religion because it is an extremely diverse region with a medley of communities such as, Gujjars, Bakarwals, Buddhists, Kashmiri Pandits and various Islamic sects. There everyone has a diverse opinion which ranges from secession to autonomy; but no one has a clear majority. Consequently, redrawing borders should be avoided because it will lead to irreparable damage and grief.
The idea of Pakistan as a state for the Muslims of the sub-continent is debatable. It was never completely accepted by all Muslims of the sub-continent. Few chose to re-settle in Pakistan while other continued to live in present day India and Bangladesh. Your suggestion of transferring all South Asian Muslims to Pakistan is unrealistic and ghastly.
Comment: An interesting editorial, as long as you recognize that this is essentially the Indian government's point of view. I would personally disagree with the arguments made by Mrs Ganguly and Bajpai.
1.) It's interesting that they write that South Ossetia is the "worrying precedent" - this is presumeably an attempt to win over Western readers - one could make a stronger argument that Kosovo is a better precedent for an independent Kashmir. The unspoken problem of this fact (for India) is that the US and most Western European countries recognize Kosovo's independence, while India, fearing its own secessionist movements, does not.
2.) I flatly disagree with the authors' arguments that only genocide, "ethnic flooding" or gross violation of human/cultural rights are the benchmarks against which a territory's people may deign to declare independence. The former Soviet and former Yugoslavian republics declared independence over far less. No genocide or severe oppression forced Slovakia to declare independence either. Quite frankly, Britain's treatment of the Indian subcontinent in the 1930's was no more ham-fisted than India's treatment of Kashmir today. Indian troops shooting peaceful Kashmiri protesters smacks of Amritsar, 1919.
3.) This article conveniently omits mention of UN Security Council Resolution 47m calling for a vote on independence to be held among Kashmiris. Hmmm...
4.) Minority rights and regional stability are important issues for the international community to focus on as a country becomes independent, but once again, these concerns do NOT trump that territory's right to be an independent state (see Kosovo, Bosnia, Estonia, East Timor, etc.).
I find it supremely ironic that the Kashmiris are now using Gandhi's tactics of peaceful protest against the Indian state, and that the Indian government and its supporters are essentially using the same arguments as Churchill and the British gave against "Quitting India". I guess what goes around, comes around.
Comment: Kochevnik81. Thank you for your sober analysis of the Kashmir situation. Presenting a case for an independent Kashmir in such a thoughtful and intelligent manner will leave not only the readers, but also the authors of the article grasping for a rebuttal. I wish more comments presenting a case on both sides would be less visceral and more substantive. Using this forum as a repository for emotional outbursts does not promote your cause one iota.
Comment: The Kashmiri's were told that they would receive the right to CHOOSE their destiny(By Nehru the liar), the UN has required that the wishes of the Kashmiri people be respected. Now the largest 'democracy,'(India) has 700,000 troops in Indian occupied Kashmir. The Real opposition is placed under house arrest, because they demand FREEDOM from India. The Indian army has killed protestors in the Kashmir valley(muslims), while in Jammu protests are allowed to go ahead unhindered because they are Hindus.
The Indian state is a colonial power much like the British Raj. Hiding under the garbs of democracy, while denying those same liberties and rights to those it enslaves. Kashmir was never a part of India. The people of Kashmir must be given freedom.
Amnesty international has documented proof of the Indian army carrying out murders, Gang raping of Kashmiri girls and women,, all this done in the name of democracy. not one soldier has been found guilty.
If India feels so secure, then allow the UN to carry out a referendum on whether Kashmiri's want union with India or Freedom. then I can tell you now that the Kashmiri's would choose FREEDOM FROM INDIA. I know this because of my day to day contact with the kashmiri community.
I am astounded that Newsweek has become a propagandist tool for the Indian state and its apologists, whether of indian origin or otherwise. Its seems that when a muslim people are murdered or massacred and their rights denied then the world turns a blind eye, especially when its been going on for the past 60 years. The time is now for Kashmiri's to be free, free from the INDIAN COLONIAL RAJ.
The Indian government was given an oppurtunity, whereby Pakistan proposed demilitarization of Kashmir(both sides), allowing free movement of Kashmiri's. even this the Indian's did not agree to, because in reality the Indians have no interest in givivg Kashmiri's any rights.
Comment: secession of kashmir will be bad news for kashmir. indian kashmiris should fight to free pok from pakistan and encourage with india for the good of kashmiris. india is politically free for all indians whether they belong to indian kashmir or in darjeeling or in nagaland. all indians are not free economically yet due to disparity in wealth distribution. socially all indians are not free also due to illegal continuation of casre system. indian people should fight against these to free themselves completely. kasmiriris, gurkha land people, nagaland people are politically free, but connected with greater india to maintain strength. united we stand and divided we fall. it is hoped that pakistan, bangla desh, nepal and even tibet will be stand united as greater india and stay stronger. people living in neighboring countries are much less free and independent religiously, economically, politically and socially.
Comment: Talk about "unbiased" reporting? As if killing kashmiris was not enough for Hindu extremists terrorists, they have now turned on the Christians in Orissa http://www.tehelka.com/story_main40.asp?filename=Ne130908HindutvasViolentHistory.asp When will Newsweek get rid off these Hindu extremists ???journalists???? These are more lies and rants! It is a known fact and well documented (Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Kashmir Institute of International Relations) that the Hindu fascist Indians are committing gross human rights violations in Kashmir (Murders, kidnapping, rape, and torture).
Comment: Talk about "unbiased" reporting? As if killing kashmiris was not enough for Hindu extremists terrorists, they have now turned on the Christians in Orissa http://www.tehelka.com/story_main40.asp?filename=Ne130908HindutvasViolentHistory.asp When will Newsweek get rid off these Hindu extremists ???journalists???? These are more lies and rants! It is a known fact and well documented (Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Kashmir Institute of International Relations) that the Hindu fascist Indians are committing gross human rights violations in Kashmir (Murders, kidnapping, rape, and torture).
Comment: The Kashmir problem should not be considered in isolation from the rest of the Country. The article on one hand states that the infrastructure and lack of education and industrialization has kept Kashmir poor, and that other parts of India have similar issue. But other parts of India do not enjoy special status, secondly the periodical massacres in India of its ethnic minorities, be it christens, in the riots when two innocent Australian missnories were amoung many that were burned alive. The destruction of the babree mosque ,to the massacres in Gujarat. Muslims probably feel that Kashmir is the only safe place for them, so this decision of granting land was viewed by the kashmiers through the prism of recent India history. Contrary to the author Kashimier ideologically is not a small state. To Pakistanis the Kashmir'es are their religious and cultural kin. For india it is a symbol of its secularism and plurism. To china the vast water resources are crucial. Violence is never the answer, but the solution still lies in the corridors of new Delhi, and the question that need to be asked is not weather Kashmir should get independence, but why after 60 years kashimers still have just reasons make such demands .
Comment: I am Kashmiri myself and I agree with this article 100 % The best thing for Kashmiris at this point is to calm down and try to deal with their legitimate greviences in a non violent way. The should calmly accept they are Indian citizens and try to focus on improving their economy, cleaning up the environments and improving the socio-economic profile of their battered society rather than fight against India. The seccessionist movement has proven to be a complete failure, a quintessential zero sum game that has ruined Kashmiri society, and paradoxically made Kashmiris far more dependent on Indian largesse than they otherwise would have to be.
Comment: I would question whether you are Kashmiri but lets put that aside for a minute. Would you deny the Kashmiri people their right to a referendum on Union with India or Independence. The Independence movement have succeeded that is why you see thousands coming out to march. the Indian state has put out a curfew and shoot on sight policy(only in the valley), because it fears that hundreds of thousands will come out to demonstrate and demand FREEDOM..
Comment: H.nazar: It is funny that when some Kashmiri defies your imagination (you think every kashmiri wants freedom) you immediately doubt his/her identity as a Kashmiri. It is no different than imposing your views on others.
The calls for secession has been led by the Hurriat party, which do not represent the majority of Kashmiris. Although the recent calls for secession are real they are often exaggerated; especially in the neighboring countries.
Jammu and Kashmir cannot be divided on the lines of religion because it is an extremely diverse region with a medley of communities such as, Gujjars, Dogras, Bakarwals, Buddhists, Kashmiri Pandits and various Islamic sects. There everyone has a diverse opinion which ranges from secession to autonomy; but no one has a clear majority.
The right of self-determination is not limited to the people living in the valley. It must also include the people living in India (Jammu, Ladakh and the valley), Pakistan (Pak Occupied Kashmir, Northern Areas) and China (Aksai Chin).
Comment: Kashmir is Pakistan!!
Comment: India just scored a great victory as the US succeeded in coercing the interntional community to waive nuclear non-proliferation requirement for the country despite gross human rights violations and brutal crackdown in Kashmir.
Comment: you think India will nuke Kashmir? get a life moron.
Comment: These are target killings. It's simple to see," said the doctor, explaining that many of the chest wounds were from weapons such as AK-47s. "Most of these were intended to kill. They were not to disperse a crowd."
Shabir Ahmed Dar, 22, lay in one hospital bed after three operations. He was shot in the abdomen during a protest march to the Pakistani Kashmir border.
"There was no warning from the police. They just fired."
The police firings drew criticism from Human Rights Watch.
It is not just a hardline response to street protests. Authorities have detained several separatist leaders without charge. Other leaders, many committed to democratic change and who publicly reject militant violence, were in hiding.
Asiya Andrabi, chief of Kashmir's women's separatist group Dukhtaran-e-Milat (Daughters of the Muslim Faith) who had led some of the protests, has been detained under the Public Safety Act that allows for a year in jail without trial.
The violence still pales in comparison with previous years when officials say more than 43,000 people have been killed in clashes involving Indian troops and Muslim militants since 1989. Human rights groups put the toll at about 60,000 dead or missing.
For Shameema, a 35-year-old woman who sells bread, the fear of police was clear. She talked about how police smashed her and her family with batons for selling bread under curfew. Her husband displayed a wound to his head.
She fell silent for a moment as a federal policeman official walked up to her shop, ominously tapping his baton. Then, realizing he could not speak Kashmiri, she talked again.
"I am scared," she said "But we have nowhere to go."
Comment: In rare criticism last week, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights called on India to avoid using excessive force. It drew a rebuke from India for interfering in its affairs.
For decades there has been simmering resentment at the hundreds of thousands of Indian troops stationed in Kashmir, making it one of the most militarized regions on earth.
Roadblocks, verbal abuse from soldiers and raids on homes have long been a part of daily life.
But as protests spiraled in August, the government sent in battalions of the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), a federal police force of mainly Hindus who do not speak Kashmiri. Strangers to Kashmir, most residents appear to despise them.
In interviews in Srinagar and nearby villages, tales were similar: CRPF beatings, night raids on homes, verbal abuse and smashed windows. Life has been worse than in previous years.
"They are not human," said Raja, a villager from Newtheed less than an hour's drive from the city. She said soldiers smashed up her home, shouting "We'll show you what freedom is".
In Srinagar, the CRPF has taken over from the local Kashmiri police to enforce curfews and riot control. Residents complain of abuse at the slightest provocation -- selling bread, buying milk.
One surgeon, who asked to remain anonymous because of fear of retribution from Indian authorities, said he has received around 400 wounded people in three weeks, 150 of them hit by bullets.
Comment: Rage in Kashmir meets India's brute force
Tue Sep 2, 2008 2:27am EDT
By Alistair Scrutton
SRINAGAR, India (Reuters) - The world's largest democracy locks up protest leaders without charge, shoots dozens of demonstrators dead, beats and intimidates ordinary citizens and raids homes without warrants.
Welcome to Indian Kashmir, where the biggest separatist protests in two decades have clashed with the might of the state.
"They are ruthless, trigger happy," said Ghulam Rasool Bhat, a laborer who says he was beaten by federal police after he tried to buy milk for his two nephews under a curfew in Srinagar, the summer capital of Indian Kashmir.
He lay in a bed, both legs bandaged where a soldier, shouting "Get your milk from Pakistan" had smashed a rifle into his shins. His legs felt, he said, as if in a continuous cramp.
Police have shot dead at least 35 Muslim protesters in the Muslim-majority Kashmir Valley after a row over land for a Hindu shrine spiraled into marches and strikes against Indian rule.
More than 1,000 people have been wounded in clashes over three weeks, hospital officials and police say, with the Kashmir Valley often under curfew. Hundreds of people have suffered police baton beatings and bullet wounds, doctors say.
Comment: Lou where are you when we need you!!
focus on these indians who are destroying our culture, jobs, dunkin donuts and gas stations.
Dr. Savage where is culture, border, language cry!!!
Minuteman to keep US clean from rat eating piss drinking people of india
Comment: These rat eating piss drinking indians take our jobs and don't even speak proper english. its about time to wake up and deport these scums back to their gutter name india.
Minuteman to keep US clean from rat eating piss drinking people of india
Comment: deport all hindu fantatics like RSS/VHP from US
Message from:
Real Minuteman to keep US clean from rat eating piss drinking people of india
Comment: deport all hindu fantatics lik RSS likes from US
Minuteman to keep US clean from rat eating piss drinking people of india
Comment: Want earth cleaner destroy india!!
Comment: Fareed Zakeria type idiots are coming to US and corrupting US policies and business enviorment. Just wait for few more years when US population will realize that the biggest invasion happing in the US is not from the south of the border but from rat eating piss drinking india.
Wake up Republicans these rat eating piss drinking people don't even assimilate in to US culture, forget mexicans deport all indians!!!!
Comment: Fareed Zakeria type idiots are coming to US and corrupting US policies and business enviorment. Just wait for few more years when US population will realize that the biggest invasion happing in the US is not from the south of the border but from rat eating piss drinking india.
Wake up Republicans these rat eating piss drinking people don't even assimilate in to US culture, forget mexicans deport all indians!!!!
Comment: Fareed Zakeria type idiots are coming to US and corrupting US policies and business enviorment. Just wait for few more years when US population will realize that the biggest invasion happing in the US is not from the south of the border but from rat eating piss drinking india.
Wake up Republicans these rat eating piss drinking people don't even assimilate in to US culture, forget mexicans deport all indians!!!!
Comment: you sound like an expat yourself? "Fareed Zakeria type"? Typical Indian/Paki way of speaking English... Saw your comment about the English of the Indians -- you do not sound Ivy league yourself by any stretch of imagination -- you seem like many of those clueless Porkistani b.s jerks who do nothing.
Good luck, with Zardari, I am sure you will be very well off pretty soon-- he will go from 10% to 100% and jerks like you will talk trash and kill amongst yourselves -- India will continue to prosper -- they don't care one bit about you or your emotional outbursts...
Comment: Fareed Zakeria type idiots are coming to US and corrupting US policies and business enviorment. Just wait for few more years when US population will realize that the biggest invasion happing in the US is not from the south of the border but from rat eating piss drinking india.
Wake up Republicans these rat eating piss drinking people don't even assimilate in to US culture, forget mexicans deport all indians!!!!
Comment: Reading this article feels exam???????????????????????????
Comment: if has the meaning in chinese is best
Comment: It's sounds very patronizing of you to tell others who desire freedom that they shouldn't want it from a list of things that you don't explain where you got them from. The reader is left with the impression that "these are reasonable." How can you judge their experience? I'm not saying that secession is justified, just that your argument comes across as very patronizing. It sounds to me like you are trying to impose your agenda on their coices and desires.
Comment: Exceptionally fair assessment - except for the fact that Kashmir has got more funding from the Indian central government than any other state. Pakistan is a failed state. To emulate failed ideology and align with a failed state would be sucidical for the ordinary Kashmiris. Nations can never ever be built in the name of religion and fanaticism. What ever prosperity (and the resulting ideology) you see in the name of religion in the Middle East is because of oil. Once the oil dries out (and I hope it dries out sooner than later), funding for terrorism will vanish.
If Kashmir were to be an independent nation, it will still be dependent on tourists for its economic survival. Has anyone thought about that? It will still have to sell its agricultural produce. Pakistan can not buy (and pay for) anything. China will squeze Kashmir out (like it is trying to do the poor African states). It will be a land locked country - worse than Nepal. Nepal, atleast has a mini economy and well establisehd tourism based infrastructure.
Come on guys, sit down and think logically. Go and visit different places in the region. Go to Afghanistan. Go and visit Karachi and Islamabad. And then go to India and stand outside Reliance plant in Jamnagar - world's largest oil refinery. Go and visit Banglore and Hyderabad - world's fastest growing IT hub. And then finally go to a very small village in India and see the local elections taking place. There is still lots of poverty and corruption in India but you will not see disillusion. Look at the females working in the farms and in multinational companies. Before you decide, just look around.
Comment: The level of literacy in both Pakistani and Indian occupied Kashmir is 75%(men and womed)+, now compare that to India and Pakistan. China has no terrotorial dispute with Kashmir. Spain, Greece, Cyprus, turkey etc have done very well from tourism, so how will Kashmir differ. there are approximately 1.5 million Kashmiri expats, many of whom have done very well. Many Kashmiri's would no doubt invest in a free Kashmir as opposed to an enslaved nation.
You assert 'there is no disillusion'.
Ask this to the widows and orphans of the thousands of farmers who have committed suicide and still continuing. The thousands of low caste girls and women raped by upper caste hindus, while the corrupt police turn a blind eye. In India women are not valued, this is because thousands of foetuses are aborted due to being female, You accuse other nations of being failed yet it seems you are not looking at yourselves. How dehumanising is it that a human pulls a rickshaw, it occurs in India but not in Pakistan and Kashmir.
Comment: An excellant article. Thanks Newsweek for putting such unbiassed and correct view of the situation in Kashmir.
Is it possible for Kashmir to exist without being attached to the apron strings of one of the neithbours?
Comment: and you have abusive and jealous Pakistanis like iyark who dont realise their nation is the biggest scum on this earth. Go home terrorist, save your country first!!
Comment: Fareed Zakeria type idiots are coming to US and corrupting US policies and business enviorment. Just wait for few more years when US population will realize that the biggest invasion happing in the US is not from the south of the border but from rat eating piss drinking india.
Wake up Republicans these rat eating piss drinking people don't even assimilate in to US culture, forget mexicans deport all indians!!!!
Comment: What has this to do with the article on Kashmir?
Comment: Has newsweek gone nuts!!! hiring hindu fanatics to write about kashmir? Here's an idea how about hire a KKK member to write about slavery.
Kashmir banega PAKISTAN!!
Comment: Kashmir banega Pakistan? yeah and then what! convert a potential export n tourism goldmine into a terrorist camp haven! who'd want to go there then n get blown up?
first save ur already present land from extremism n then add more..its not a free gift..n do u forget anti-Pak Buddhist ladakhis?
n whats with d 'rat piss' crap..atleast we dont marry our cousins and convict rape victims!
Comment: Has newsweek gone nuts!!! hiring hindu fanatics to write about kashmir? Here's an idea how about hire a KKK member to write about slavery.
Kashmir banega PAKISTAN!!
Comment: The USA persistently dismembered Serbia. The first recognised Kosovo. Hide the information across Ossetia. The USA it is possible for the all-rests only with the consent of god-US president. In the USA demonstrators have dispersed - "democratic" methods: tear gas. God relieve us of American "democracy"!
Comment: @ Don't Tread on Me: Sure, your founding fathers made a great commitment to self-government and self-determination by eradicating 95% of the Native Americans, and corralling them like horses into reservations. Way to go.
Comment: @ Don't Tread on Me: Sure your founding fathers made a great commitment for self-determination and self-government by killing about 95% of the Native Americans and corralling them like horses into reservations.
Comment: Russia's moves in S.Ossetia and Abkhazia are less important than the moves of the USA in Kosovo. Only Russia and weak Nicaragua recognized S.Ossetia and Abkhazia but 40 countries recognized Kosovo after the powerful USA. Even Russia refers to Kosovo and the USA in speeches about S.Ossetia and Abkhazia. So the current stream of secession has origins in the USA. Who wants to follow Russia except Nicaragua? I don't know. The USA gave new real power to secession.
Comment: all these people writing here make no mention of Hindus & Buddhists, and indeed muslims who live in Jammu, Poonch, Ladakh and other parts of Jammu & Kashmir---nobody takes into account OUR wishes of staying in the Indian Republic---this is because the extremist's clamour from Srinagar drowns out the other voices here. Certainly we would like to remain part of India (a burgeoning economic tiger) rather than be swallowed up by a failed terrorist state (Pakistan) that is itself imploding.
Comment: As with the recent political huff in this country against Russia over the South Ossetia situation, it seems we Americans, in our growing commitment to empire-building and nationalism, have forgotten our founders' struggle with an oppressive parent nation over the rights of the people to self-determination and self-government. If nations' territorial and economic greed did not rule this world the people of South Ossetia and Kashmir could live in peace.
Comment: As with the recent political huff in this country against Russia over the South Ossetia situation, it seems we Americans, in our growing commitment to empire-building and nationalism, have forgotten our founders' struggle with an oppressive parent nation over the rights of the people to self-determination and self-government. If nations' territorial and economic greed did not rule this world the people of South Ossetia and Kashmir could live in peace.
Comment: Absolutely biased article! Authors have intentionally not mentioned that overwhelming majority of Kashmirs considers presence of 700,000 Indian army and security forces as an ''OCCUPYING FORCE" who have murdered over 70,000 people, raped thousands of Kashmiri women and wrecked death and destruction on the Kashmiri people. The widespread human rights' violations perpetrated by the Indian security forces have been extensively documented by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and UN. They also didn't mention that the 700,000 Indian security forces are among the HIGHEST CONCENTRATION of military presence in any part of the world to break the movement of Kashmiris against Indian occupation. Most importantly, they conveniently forgot to mention that Kashmir is considered a disputed region (and not part of India) according to UN resolutions which bind India to hold an open plebiscite /referendum to allow Kashmiris to decide their future i.e. whether they want to formally become part of India or Pakistan.
Comment: oh yeah? 700,000 troops in Kashmir?
and how many troops do you think that India has in all? I am sure that you are disgruntled Pakistani who has nothing else to do but 'liberate' Kashmir -- consider yourself lucky that China is one of your neighbors -- otherwise, India would have overrun Pakistan by now.
and from what I understand, Kashmiri people enjoy more privileges than people in other parts of India - subsidized fuel, food, etc -- I guess its alright in Islam to take and abuse whatever you get and then cry foul.. what a bunch of jerks...
Comment: Absolutely biased article! Authors have intentionally not mentioned that overwhelming majority of Kashmirs considers presence of 700,000 Indian army and security forces as an ''OCCUPYING FORCE" who have murdered over 70,000 people, raped thousands of Kashmiri women and wrecked death and destruction on the Kashmiri people. The widespread human rights' violations perpetrated by the Indian security forces have been extensively documented by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and UN. They also didn't mention that the 700,000 Indian security forces are among the HIGHEST CONCENTRATION of military presence in any part of the world to break the movement of Kashmiris against Indian occupation. Most importantly, they conveniently forgot to mention that Kashmir is considered a disputed region (and not part of India) according to UN resolutions which bind India to hold an open plebiscite /referendum to allow Kashmiris to decide their future i.e. whether they want to formally become part of India or Pakistan.
Comment: Thanks for saying something that some of the Indians feel some of the time. This is a bit of a contrast to an apallingly offensive article in the NYT by Pankaj Mishra. Having met people who have lost only sons to Pakistan-fuelled and locally manipulated terrorism, I regret that people who wonder about Kashmiri Muslims dont : a) wonder about the more prosperous Kashmiri Hindus who were ejcted from THEIR homeland, THEIR lands and goods seized by the Kashmiri Muslims and who are denied basic rights in their refugee camps in Delhi. Even the chakma refugees from Bangladesh are treated better and b) have any actual experience of living in Kashmir itself. Aside of the regular abuse of India, Indians and the Hindu religion while eating up 30% of taxes on my hard earned income, their women are the most venomous creatures on earth. Remember their FALSe accusation on that poor young major of raping a 12 yr old? He was found NOT guilty, but that was not reported as widely as the accusation itself. The number of people killed in Kashmir comprises mostly of the poor Indian Armymen who are forced to defend a piece of land where every fibre is plotting against them.
Comment: A typical Western biase in favour of the currently favoured-son status India occupies in the Western geopolitical/strategic narratives. All the Indian misdeeds, genocides against the local population, wanton abuse of the so-called democratic principles, disrespect ful of the sacred entitlement to self determination as a basic human right charter, blatant Indian colonialism of minority communities, religious persecution of the Islamic faith etc........all these are utterly non existent or simply transparent to the West's human right crusaders because India happens to serve their stategic interest at this crucial historical juncture. Compare this scenario to the vehement Western reactions almost bordering on senseless hysteria on similar issues in Tibet, Xinjiang & Georgia when the actors are China & Russia. The West is nothing but a bunch of hypocrites & therefore rightly be thrown aside in Chinese/Russian calculations.
Chinese would like to extend our whole-hearted support to the Kashmeris to have their own independent state come what may! We also rejoice at your determination & steadfastness in your struggle against the Indian Govt & wish you every success!
Comment: amazingly biased and presumptious article. no talk of UN resolutions or Nehrus promise of holding a plebicite. brushing aside the number of people killed.but to be honest if i was in the shoes of the authors id write the same way.
Comment: Nehru promised a plebiscite over ENTIRE KASHMIR and not a part of it (i.e. Indian Kashmir). Besides, the ethnic cleansing of Kashmir's hindus over the past few years has altered the demographic balance of the region. India and the World community both accept that the plebiscite is no longer valid.
Don't complain of the number of people killed. Islamic mercenaries have resulted in deaths all over the world. I bet Pakistanis sympathized with Bin Laden more than the US even after the WTC attacks ( they certainly do so now).
Indian Kashmir is far better off than Pakistan Occupied Kashmir, and much freer than PoK as well as that dysfunctional geographic entity called Pakistan. Dont take my word for it, visit the official site of freedomhouse international, and see how they classify Indian Kashmir as 'Partly Free' and Pak as 'Not Free'
Comment: I am a Hindu Indian. That does not stop me from believing that Kashmiries ( of both POK and Indian Kashmir) should be given a chance of self determination and deciding if they want to be independent or join PakI am a Hindu Indian. That does not stop me from believing that Kashmiries ( of both POK and Indian Kashmir) should be given a chance of self determination and deciding if they want to be independent or join Pakistan or join India. I still vividly remember a classmate (in a college in south India) of mine from Kashmir during 1980-84. he would always refer to his homeland as Kashmir and never as India. Would say things like.. Your India is soo developed! He would never relate well with even Indian Muslims. If some one does not believe he is an Indian in his heart no matter what force or delaying tactics you use he would never ever belong. What happens to them after a separation is their fate. When British were ruling India even they said things like white mans burden.. What would happen if we leave.. Indians can not rule themselves. What did we tell them? Why we get upset if Kashmiries tell us the same?
I very strongly believe that Kasmiries are better of in India than in Pakistan or being independent. But I am not a Kashmiri!
I very strongly believe that Kasmiries are better of in India than in Pakistan or being independent. But I am not a Kashmiri!
Comment: What about the hundreds of thousands of Kashmiris who refer to India as "My India", and who have been driven out of Kashmir by Islamic hardliners just because they are Hindu ?? How do you propose we deal with that ?? Kashmiris stood silently by, and even condoned the violence as it's Hindus were ethnically cleansed. It is fitting that they suffer till the last Kashmiri pandit gets rehabilitated, BACK IN KASHMIR !!!
Comment: I am a Hindu Indian. That does not stop me from believing that Kashmiries ( of both POK and Indian Kashmir) should be given a chance of self determination and deciding if they want to be independent or join Pakistan or join India. I still vividly remember a classmate (in a college in south India) of mine from Kashmir during 1980-84. he would always refer to his homeland as Kashmir and never as India. Would say things like.. Your India is soo developed! He would never relate welll with even Indian Muslims . Yif some does not belive he is an indian in his heart no matter what force or delaying tactics you use he would never ever belong. What happenes to them after a seperation is their fate. When british were ruling even hey said things like white mans burden.. what would happen ifif we leave.. Indian can not rule themselves. what did we tell them? why we get upset if Kashmirires tell us the same?
Comment: This article is biased at best and dangerously misleading at worst. The Kashmir problem cannot be described as a secession issue because the UN does not accept Kashmir to be a legitimate part of India. As for the Indian efforts to placate Kashmiris, do visit the "Martyr's graveyard" in Srinagar.
Comment: India is a democracy only for the Brahmins. Muslims, Untouchables and Christians face the worst kind of discrimination imaginable. Google 'Sachar Report' for more details.
Comment: I am a Christian living in India. And I consider myself lucky for that.
Yeah, not everybody is so lucky, but hard work and ingenuity will get you everywhere out here.
If you want to act like a victim, then I'm sorry nobody can help you.
Comment: f
Comment: If Kashmir should part from India, then this is a desicion that should be made and negitiated by India, Pakistan and the people in Kashmir...
Last time US made such a desicion (Kosovo), America guaranteed "independence" from the beginning and therefore was no need for the Albanians to negotiate with the Serbs. Thus, US got their will, but that does not mean peace or justice (like any other american peace mission)
Comment: This entire assumes that Kashmir is a part of India, that it is a state like any other Indian state. But that suggestion/assumption is erroneous because Kashmir is a disputed territory, not part of mainland India. Therefore, the secession of Kashmir is very different from the secession of any other state/part of a state. The Kashmiri people have never accepted the Indian government as their own. From the partition of India in 1947 till today the Indian government has tried to paint the picture that everything in Kashmir is 'okay', that the people living in the Kashmir valley do not really mind being a part of India- this is completely false. The Kashmiri people now, just like 60 years ago, want either independence or to join Pakistan. The reality is that India has never allowed a fair plebiscite that will decide the fate of Kashmir. I urge the writers of the article that same thing I would like to tell the Indian government: stop pretending like things aren't that bad. The Kashmiri people do not want to join India.
Comment: By Kashmiri people whom do you refer to ??? Hindus Muslims and Buddhists are all part of Kashmir. Though a vast majority of the Hinuds have been driven out, they are Kashmiris too. And let me assure you that this minority, which was originally around 30% of the state, does not wish to join Muslim Pakistan, or be part of Independent Islamic Kashmir, but wish to be a part of Secular Democratic India. Kashmir was LEGALLY signed over to India during the partition, and India has given Kashmiris rights and privileges over and above those granted to most of it's other states. Kashmir has had democracy for more time than Pakistan has had it for. Nobody can force India to give up it's territory. Least of all a weak falied state like Pakistan, whose army can't prevent the Taliban from attacking it's cities at will, and assasinating it's most important leaders with ease.
Comment: What about the simply reason that they want to govern themselves? Obviously they feel strongly enough about their culture and their desire to live seperately with their own rules and customs. Why should they need any other reason besides this? Because this might disturb global politics? Well global politics is already oppressing this cultural minority. Of course India would lose power, perhaps this move would increase the number of populations wanting self-governance, this would in turn decrease the power of nation states as a whole. Of course this is "bad" if you look at it from the side of those states in power now that would "suffer" but just as equal is the "goodness" of self-governance that will result. I find it hard to believe that you are suggesting that although the state of India (or the individuals that make up that state) have caused atrocities and death for the population of kashmir that they should somehow accept this or appease this for some *possible* future that has improved relations. This is a horrible suggestion as it is, that it is not *enough* killing yet to warrant self-governance, perhaps this type of thinking would have worked in the beginings of the holocaust? Oh no, not enough Jewish people, "lower" races, and disabled people have been killed yet, therefore it is not a genocide, therefore there requires no action. How many people have to be killed to warrant the label "genocide"? More than one thousand? Two thousand? Please specify becaue you seem to "know" that there is no chance of a genocide of Kashimir. Your approach seems to be a rationalization of killing, trying to systematize a reaction to violence. This seems improbably if not downright inhuman, would you accpet such conditions yourself? If your family and friends were killed would this not be "enough" to warrant reaction? I find that hard to believe. That being said, why shouldn't every population have the right to self-governance? It seems to be an inherent right of all people by natural disposition (if it is not then what basis is our nation-state, is ANY conceivable nation-state as it is in the westernized world)? The real question is why the countries care so much about not letting populations govern themselves, why is this? Why does Georgia swear that the breakaway regions are somehow "theirs" and "rightfully" no less. This seems basis if not a convention of imperialism still existing. The answer I believe is that it removes power and territory, and a modern nation-state is more or less defined by these attributes. This is not abotu peace and security for all, do you really believe that? This is about power and manipulation like it always has been.
Comment: What about the simply reason that they want to govern themselves? Obviously they feel strongly enough about their culture and their desire to live seperately with their own rules and customs. Why should they need any other reason besides this? Because this might disturb global politics? Well global politics is already oppressing this cultural minority. Of course India would lose power, perhaps this move would increase the number of populations wanting self-governance, this would in turn decrease the power of nation states as a whole. Of course this is "bad" if you look at it from the side of those states in power now that would "suffer" but just as equal is the "goodness" of self-governance that will result. I find it hard to believe that you are suggesting that although the state of India (or the individuals that make up that state) have caused atrocities and death for the population of kashmir that they should somehow accept this or appease this for some *possible* future that has improved relations. This is a horrible suggestion as it is, that it is not *enough* killing yet to warrant self-governance, perhaps this type of thinking would have worked in the beginings of the holocaust? Oh no, not enough Jewish people, "lower" races, and disabled people have been killed yet, therefore it is not a genocide, therefore there requires no action. How many people have to be killed to warrant the label "genocide"? More than one thousand? Two thousand? Please specify becaue you seem to "know" that there is no chance of a genocide of Kashimir. Your approach seems to be a rationalization of killing, trying to systematize a reaction to violence. This seems improbably if not downright inhuman, would you accpet such conditions yourself? If your family and friends were killed would this not be "enough" to warrant reaction? I find that hard to believe. That being said, why shouldn't every population have the right to self-governance? It seems to be an inherent right of all people by natural disposition (if it is not then what basis is our nation-state, is ANY conceivable nation-state as it is in the westernized world)? The real question is why the countries care so much about not letting populations govern themselves, why is this? Why does Georgia swear that the breakaway regions are somehow "theirs" and "rightfully" no less. This seems basis if not a convention of imperialism still existing. The answer I believe is that it removes power and territory, and a modern nation-state is more or less defined by these attributes. This is not abotu peace and security for all, do you really believe that? This is about power and manipulation like it always has been.
Comment: ah, who cares i hope kashmir becomes independent. maybe that way it would stop three countries trying to claim it as their territory.
Comment: Has newsweek gone nuts!!! hiring hindu fanatics to write about kashmir? Here's an idea how about hire a KKK member to write about slavery.
Kashmir banega PAKISTAN!!
Comment: Yeah Right !!!!! Remember Bangladesh ??? That was supposed to be Pakistan too.
Comment: Its seems that newsweek is outsourcing journalist jobs to india. first that moron Fareed zakeria and now full indian call center in action.
I am cancelling my subscription and going with TIME. You know i never agreed with Bill O"reilly but i guess he was right when he said newsweek is looney bin
Comment: Subsrcibe to TIME or if you want, subscribe to the Taliban Times. Won't matter much anyways. It's only a matter of time before US jets carpet bomb the mud hut you live in. Lol, so ridiculous. Every day Pakis are getting bombed and the most that their Prime Minister can do is "protest strongly" and "warn the US"
Comment: Enter Your Commenti definately touched some soft nerve here, aren't you the same person who were begging for H1B visa outside my office yesterday?
Clean world from rats! destroy india!
Comment: sreddivari - secular india? you're kidding right? tell this repeated lie to thousands of muslims killed in Gujrat, Christians in Assam and sikh in golden temple.
if india is secular then saudi arabia is budhist.
Comment: India and Pakistan became independent from Britain back in 1947. During the past six decadesIndia has prospered as a democracy where as Pakistan remained unstable with several coups by the military. Terrorista in Pakistan will destabilize a Kashmir as soon as it becomes independent and turn it into another Afghanistan. The people of Kashmir , both Hindus and Muslims has a chance to prosper only if Kashmir remains a part of secular India.
Comment: Mr. gangily, you are in USA not in India. So do n't try to be an expert of Indian affairs. Now a days in western
countries so many pandits and experts like crows in big cities in Subcontinent. Bottom line INDIA is a
secular contry in name only.
Comment: To both writers, Russia didn't start this secessionist movements..it was us that started it by recognizing the independence of Kosovo..Russia followed suit..
Comment: Its seems that newsweek is outsourcing journalist jobs to india. first that moron Fareed zakeria and now full indian call center in action.
I am cancelling my subscription and going with TIME. You know i never agreed with Bill O"reilly but i guess he was right when he said newsweek is looney bin
Comment: hindus are kissings christians in Assam, muslims in kashmir and gujrat, sikhs in punjab and when they do get a minute eat rats and look for small condoms.
Do world a favor and destroy india!!
Comment: Comment: Has newsweek gone nuts!!! hiring hindu fanatics to write about kashmir? Here's an idea how about hire a KKK member to write about slavery.
Kashmir banega PAKISTAN!!
Comment: Dream on, loser dream on! In the mean time, make sure your own house doesn't get blown up by the same monster you guys helped create! I can't help grinning when I read about the events happening in Pak these days! Great going, guys! Enjoy :D
Comment: Because dreaming about dead people suffering is something to certainly grin about right amaan?
Comment: Its seems that newsweek is outsourcing journalist jobs to india. first that moron Fareed zakeria and now full indian call center in action.
I am cancelling my subscription and going with TIME. You know i never agreed with Bill O"reilly but i guess he was right when he said newsweek is looney bin.
Comment: They have to hire Hindus because you Muslims are busy blowing yourselves up and killing innocents everywhere to do anything productive.
Comment: Topcat; that's quite humarous, did you pick that up on Fox news or did you think it up all by yourself? It would do you well to know that the first suicide bombers started from the Tamil who happen to be Hindus. Now go praise mother gita as you undrestand the history of suicide a bit more. Least you forget the monstrosity and horror the Gujrati's are capable of in the State of Gujrat. Guess you must've missed out on the stories of how they gutted pregnant women only to toss the fetus around something tell
