Comment: Its OK becuase McCain, Bush Cheney and Bish?binLaden want WAR as we speak Russia is flying around with their bombers off our coast in military exercises sparked by our Need to control the OIL and theirs! Get rid of the OIL and we get rid of these issues, whay should we put missles in their back yard and call them irrelevant and war mongers when we are leading the way! All in the name of OIL Wake the ____ up America!!
Comment: Palin said in her interview that helping Georgia is in the interest of the United States.
I beg your pardon? What interest is it to us to increase tensions in Russia's backyard for a two bit state, led by a 2 bit puppet that we installed under the guise of free elections just to stir trouble in that region of the world?
It is more in Russia's interest not to have us arming and training these idiots than for us it is to train them.
Russia has no choice but to start arming the Taliban, the resistance in Iraq and starting trouble in other parts of
the world to keep us busy and stop us from being the obnoxious pain the a$#s that we have become. Proof that it has started, the Israelis are asking the Russians not to sell advanced weapons to Syria and Iran. Really? It is not in Russia's interest to stop. That will keep Israel (who had 1000 advisers in Georgia) and us busy.
Russia is probably now exploring how to overcome our ABM system and make it obsolete. How many of you have any doubts that this goal will be achieved? And if it is not, how many think that the ABM system in Poland will be completed without war?
Also, while we waste our energy with this stupid little country, all of a sudden we forgot about China! When we wake up...surprise! It seems we did not learn too much from diverting our resources from Afghanistan to start a war in Iraq. We want to have our fingers in more dishes than we can afford.
Or maybe this situation with Georgia is done with the purpose of keeping the Russians in an aggravated mood and the Europenas scared so that they aprove and more ABMS's. Nawww, this would be too smart for our leadership. Besides, how long will it take for the Europeans to realize this? After all, Russia is a major trading partner and how much would an ABM system help the earth with 50,000 nuclear weapons going off at once. Any guesses?
It so seems that when we finally had achieved peace and were cooperating in several fronts, we push and push to destroy what previous leaders have achieved and bring us back the jaws of war. Ironically, the ones who are pushing us closer and closer to war are old f$%#ts that have nothing to loose since the days here are numbered. Our children will be the ones paying for their stupidity? arrogance? greed?
The policy (Bush's Doctrine- LOL) we are following in Georgia is utter non-sense!
Comment: Americans prepare for WWIII
Comment: If I was President Bush, I'd send the CIA into Georgia with some polonium to take out Saakashvili, and make it look like the Russians did it, then make sure another pro-American leader comes to power in Georgia. Then I'd deploy 4 or 5 thousand American peacetroopers in Georgia.
Everyone would think the Russians took out Saakashvili, and at the same time, we'd get rid of that adventurous fool Saakashvili .
Comment: I'm truly "impressed" by the amount of "pull" Russia has with Iran and North Korea.
I'm vicious but not stupid. I didn't say I'd deploy American troops adjacent to South Ossetia... I'd deploy them around the capital and the main ports to discourage a complete takeover of Georgia, now or in the future. Let the Russians have South Ossetia; they'll probably choke on it in the long run like Chechnya.
Comment: so... let me get this straight.... you want to put 4-5000 US troops across from 7-8000 Russian Troops, which will be based in S. Ossetia soon.
Not to mention that Russia is the only nation on Earth that has the Ability to match the Amount of Nuclear Weapons possesed and to also be able to fire them.
oh, and how about the small fact that russia is also one of the major players in the world with nuclear power, one of the few which have the ability to influence other nations, like North Korea, and Iran, actually, they are the only ones who in the end have real pull on these nations.
Comment: powerful people , entities,nations and spuperpowers , and weaker entities must trly accept equitable treatments for all:see below:
web search words viz kamalkarna roy " for detailed reflection of relevant issues in opinions of dr the reverend kamal karna roy , a U S born statesman and gopaffiliated political worker and leader of weaker citizens around globe.
Comment: Get rid of Saakashuilli and the lion will go away. He did attack first,so Russian will make sure he doe not try it again.Put troops there waste of money. Not are oil pipe line that runs thru there.B P let them spend some money.
Comment: This article seems to focus more on NATO than the actual conflict. Of course the US was training Georgians, but Russian actions may have solidified that reasoning to do so. There is no doubt that there is a powder keg in the making (if not already completed) in the Middle East, but more specifically in the once Soviet satellite states. These states have weak governments that are still in the process of solidifying their functions and their powers that encompass their new territories. By an established nation to jump into the mix, be it the US or Russia, always makes these processes slow down or pushes them in a direction more acceptable to the intruder. I doubt anything will come of this. The US military is too spread out, but Russia sees the previous military action the US has taken on countries such as Afghanistan who provided no threat when it came to military power. It is another Cold War stand down by both countries.
Comment: The world economy will not tolerate a new cold war. Vote for peace if you have small shares of weapon manufactures.
Comment: Some Comments from the U.S. Congress:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIZu-rLLtlY
Comment: It seems to me that the situation in Georgia was very possibly in part provoked by some persons having some influence in the US. When one looks at the situation, the main question to ask is ":why now?" Obviously the president of Georgia is smart enough to know what he would be up against. The motivation I see for this, is that some elements in our nation would want the people to percieve that we need Senator McCain as president, who is a cold warrior from the past and would then be the "best" to protect us from an 'emergent" Russia. Although such persons may be well intentioned, I think if this is true, they need to be routed out and exposed. To me, they do not represent truth, neither justice nor the American way. I think a full investigation is warranted.
Comment: It seems to me that the Georgia conflict was very possibly partly provoked by some of those in power in the US. Some of those who may want to influence the election so that the people may think they need McCain, an old time cold warrior. I think if this is true, those elements in the US society need to be routed out and exposed. To me, they do not represent truth, neither justice nor the American way. I think a full investigation is warranted.
Comment: Sounds like politics as usual, to me. The military cerrtainly may not have wanted any such thing. But Sen Mccain wanted something. And his foreign policy advisor got paid handily to for the exchange of advice. Georgia, it's seems, got the worst of the advice from team "We are All Georgians" now. And if left up to Senators Obama and Biden alone American taxpayers will pay over a billion dollars to clean up the mess.
And to keep our military out of another conflict. I have zero faith in Mccain Palin to keep US from warring with
Alaska's Russian neighbor. I have much more faith in Senators Obama and Biden to enlighten the US on
such issues and to practice honest diplomacy with all involved including Israel, Russia, Georgia and the
Middle Eastern nations.
Comment: Sounds like politics as usual, to me. The military cerrtainly may not have wanted any such thing. But Sen Mccain wanted something. And his foreign policy advisor got paid handily to for the exchange of advice. Georgia it's seems got the worst of the advice from team "We are All Georgians" now. And if left up to Senators Obama and Biden alone American taxpayers will pay over a billion dollars to clean up the mess.
And to keep our military out of another conflict. I have zero faith in Mccain Palin to keep US from warring with
Alaska's Russian neighbor. I have much more faith in Senators Obama and Biden to enlighten the US on
such issues and to practice honest diplomacy with all involved including Israel, Russia, Georgia and the
Middle Eastern nations.
Comment: From Russia. If to judge on all countries of the former USSR to democracy to go still very far. Still unstably also it is left unfinished. How so Georgia became suddenly democratic - having kissed someone's back? The USA instead of helping young democracies arranges dirty games in the interests. The conflict between Georgia and Ossetia could be solved one call from USA. The USA it was necessary to wait Russia will not be got involved yet?
Comment: You talk as if Russia is "Mafia clean"???? They have the most ruthless mafia in the world. Russia only gains from the conflict. They are certainly guilty of ethnic cleansing. What about what they have done in Chechnya? They are and will continue to bully and occupy their former territories....Watch out Ukraine is next.
Comment: What Russia have done in Chechnya?
Comment: So who do you trust more, GW Bush or Puttie Pute ... tough question to answer.
Comment: Georgian demovracy in a sense is a fake democracy. Saakashvili first came to power through a so called 'rose revolution' , which was a mutiny. After that he suppressed the opposition, opposition leader of that time is still missing. Then he went through election. After all why someone would consider democratic election a safeguard againnst aggression, war and destruction? All the Georgian leadres from 1993 and on were coming to power, epressing extremely mationalistic ideas. One nationalistic leader that we know very well came to power democratically and inmposed great suffering and terror all over the world. It was Adolf Hitler.
Comment: Sounds about like Russia then to me. Russia pretend to hold fair elections as well... except when there is a candidate who might actually challenge the status quo. Then they put a gag order on their media and create reason why the other candidates can't be listed on the Presidential election. Look at this past election when they prevented Kasparov from running.
Comment: If NATO's deterrent value is to be preserved, NATO will have to develop a spine and sharpen its teeth. Putin has shown his true colors....and he picked his time and his battle pretty well, it seems, in a place where we can't easily project force, but Russia can, and at a time when (thanks to our own Neocons) we are already overcommitted, and bogged down in wars we either didn't have to fight at all (Iraq) or where we stayed after the real mission had been accomplished (Afghanistan...once the Taliban was out of power, and al Qaeda on the run, we could have and should have pulled our military forces out, and let the Afghans hash things out on their own. Even a resurgence of the Taliban, if it happened, didn't need to be OUR problem... the Taliban were not even our primary enemy; they were merely in the way (for reasons that had more to do with traditions of the region than any ideological considerations) of us taking down our own enemy.
Comment: Georgia is just a satellite of the Jewnited states government and Israel. It did what it was told to do, and when to do it, when the Russian leadership was in China. Time to liberate this country from the Jews and Neo-cons who have created this crisis. Death to ZOG. www.rnpaheadquarters.org
Comment: Georgia is just another satellite of the Jewnited States and Israel. This unholy alliance is intent upon undermining Russia and all who oppose their Jew world order. www.rnpaheadquarters.org
Comment: As I understand it Joe Biden was involved in this cluster...k in Georgia alongside with Cheney and Rice. Why nobody even mention that in the American press?
Comment: My vote would be to arm Georgia, train their soldiers and support their needs in crisis. They are a fledgling democracy that is attempting to take control of its borders much the same as any other country has during its inception. The big bully on the block, Russia, is attempting to force them into doing things their way. It is much the same in the other countries that broke away from the Soviet regime. Moldova is another example, Russian forces occupy a portion of their country as well, claiming to be protecting a tiny city from their own people. Russia is merely trying to maintain their monopoly on energy distribution into Europe and will do so by using force.
Comment: Just don't help Georgians kill Ossetians. Russia does not let them do this. The Georgian democracy itself is safe: Saakashvili is still the Georgian president, the Georgian parliament works, where it worked, and even speaks much against Russia.
Comment: For a better picture just google Saakashvily. Human Rights. 1 bil. to rebuild their economy? What economy?
They never had one in a first place.
Comment: ARM GEORGIA, ARE YOU CRAZY? US CANT AFFORD TO REBUILD NEW ORLEANS. CLEAN YOUR HOUSE FIRST , BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT OTHER PEOPLES HOUSES. WE ARE BROKE. CHINA OWNS US NOW. WE WENT FROM GREAT CREDITOR NATIONS TO A GREATEST DEBTOR NATION OF ALL TIMES. HALIBURTON PACKED UP AND TOOK ALLTHE MONEY TO DUBAI. IF THEY DONT HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE USA WHO ELSE HAS?
Comment: $1-billion for Georgia? That's the bounty. Hollywood Mikheil Saakashvili, gleefully, will deliver. What about half of that for Haiti, who has been smacked with the left and right hooks by ALL hurricanes?
Comment: Mark My Words! Georgia will be: KEY to the current presidential election. McCain, secretly, will prod Mikheil Saakashvili to provoke Russia, into another toothless mini-made-for-media-scuffle. That conflict, will be the home-run -- the "November Surprise!" the Republican is been aiming for. Remember the Iran-Contra Ayatollah Bible? McCain's Georgian lobbyist should be shadowed NOW!, not after the scam has succeed in denying Obama, a rightful and legitimate win.
Comment: There's only one way to even begin to change our great country's policies and that is to vote out the elite GOP!
This country was born on the vision by the people, of the people and for the people....NO WHERE DOES IT SAY by the RICH ONLY people, of the RICH ONLY people and for the RICH ONLY people!!!!!
MCWAR and PALIN will put this country back 50 years and leave us with only more problems and more deficit, that is if we survive after the next war that they will initiate - the only ? is, who will it be? China, Venezuela, North Korea, Russia, Pakistan, Iran - anyone who believes different is not only a fool, they are also just plain stupid!!!!!
Comment: Misters! At the time of the USSR Stalin a feather stroke has divided Ossetia, Khruschev has presented Crimea to Ukraine and others have made many nonsenses. Territories were transferred because of convenience of communications or even a mail service. Here experience of the cautious surgeon (as is necessary at division of Siamese twins) instead of skill of woodcutter Saakashvili. Which the Ossetin has decided to cut down with a root of all.
Comment: From Russia. And can create is better a game rule for all identical. What is the boys did not kick small because of a back of the big uncles. The United Nations it is necessary to raise the importance. That United Nations decisions were obligatory for all. And here if someone starts to become impudent - then to accept rigid sanctions. But here is how it to make if at the countries different weight? And that who is stronger - that and the peacemaker! And now more strongly the USA are not present whom!
Comment: I agree that the USA didn't trained the Georgian army to beat Russia. I think the USA trained the Georgian Army to kill people of S.Ossetia and Abkhazia. Let's create a basis for peace in Georgia, Russia, and the USA, not for a new war. Peace is much better.
Comment: The Georgian conflict shows how powerless the West really is against Russia. The EU can't even impose economic sanctions on Russia while the Americans dare not send in troops. Once Russia bites back, the West turn out no more than a paper tiger.
Comment: All understand that business wrong. Serbs smothered Kosovars in Kosovo, now the truth Kosovars smother Serbs. And in Georgia Georgians smother the Ossetin. For whom to be at war not clearly.
Comment: Wake up Americans. If Hamilton is telling the truth (that we didn't want this war) why are we rewarding rather than reprimanding Saakashvili? Why is McCain anxious to call him his "good friend" We could have stopped him from his initial attack on civilians with one phone call.
While our attention has been on olympics & political conventions, another war is being planned; this time with Russia....!!!!
Comment: Braes,
I get a kick out of your unconventional and very well written comments. Well thought out. You seem like a very worldly and intelligent person. Thanks!
Comment: No, the United States should not spend any more tax payers money to 'help' other countrys. Does anyone besides me think that we're being taxed without representation? Isn't this something that our country was founded on? And if you don't vote, then don't answer!
Comment: Why in the world does the US support a fake democracy like Georgia? The Georgian Mafia has terrorized Moscow for years. Georgia is the birthplace of Stalin where he is still considered a hero. It is the diplomatic and strategic blunder of the century for the US and it will backfire on them. The present policy is setting the stage for Russian bases in Cuba and Venezuela. As usual the US policy is for the wrong side.
Comment: We've done ok with our foreign policy since 1945. Your comment about "fake Georgian democracy" demonstrates your fake intellect. What do a bunch of criminals of Georgian descent in Moscow have to do with the democratically elected Georgian gov't? It's like saying that Italy is a fake democracy because their mafia has been terrorizing NY and NJ. Rather dumb.
Comment: You need to know a little more about world affairs before attacking people you don't know. Georgia has been a corrupt state for years. in 2006 after a series of special measures aimed to deport illegal Georgian emigrants from Russia, to close big casinos and restaurants supposedly controlled by the Georgian mafia and to cleanse ???ethnically polluted??? markets, Russian special services are taking a step further.Law enforcement organizations started dealing with banks that supposedly laundered money in Russia to fund the unfriendly regime of Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili. This is not even mentioning the numerous bombings and kidnappings in Russia by Georgians, And what are you bringing Italy into this for? You need to study the world more.
Comment: By using the Italian mafia as an example I was showing a fallacy in your thought process. For your information, Georgia s deemed to have the least corrupt gov't and investor advisories rate the country among the safest to invest in with confidence from the former Soviet bloc. Also, unfortunately, at this point Russia has no independent media so trusting a russian report on banks laundering money to fund Saakashvili's gov't is naive at best. Also by calmly suggesting that Russia is (and should be?) "cleansing" "ethnically polluted" markets of Georgians is rather disturbing. A connection between Saakashvili's gov't and ethnically Georgian organized crime will only be believed if it's coming from an independent, credible source. Until then Georgian organized crime in Russia has as much to do with Georgian gov't as Italian mafia in US has to do with the Italian gov't.
Comment: The United States foreign policy is regime change, coercive force, creative destruction, and pre-emptive war. To change that you need to change regimes here in November.
Comment: Well, it is somewhat heartening to see by comments here that not everyone has been hoodwinked by the mainstream media. Georgia was the aggressor. Full stop.
It was just a handful of months ago that news of the Pentagon's illegal propaganda campaign broke (it clearly violates US law relating to covert government propaganda).
Given American's trait of short term memory I think people should do an internet (NOT mainstream media, for heaven's sake) search to get a refresher.
Central to this article is a good Lt. Col.'s comments. Note that the Lt. Col is presently at CSIS which has a reputation as a "conservative propaganda machine". So "buyer beware".
...More than "buyer beware"!...one needs to seriously consider whether the author of this article phone number is in some Roledex at CSIS.
The author is one John Barry, who on the eve of the invasion of Iraq penned an article that included this:
"To combat Saddam???s psychological warfare and refute disinformation, CENTCOM has created a "rapid-response team." CENTCOM will try to provide photographic proof to back up its claims, releasing footage from gun cameras and other weapons systems as well as before-and-after photographs from satellites"
You see, there was fear that collateral damage would be pinned on the US instead of where it belonged -- "the enemy".
John Barry's article continued:
"Truth may not be an adequate defense. [...] Shocked by television images of human carnage, demonstrators will take to the streets at home and abroad. Politicians will call on Bush to get it over with, to declare victory and go home."
We shall note that concern about collateral damage was well founded. Hundreds of thousands have been injured or killed in the conflict so far. But the Pentagon makes no effort itself of estimating numbers. They do go to considerable effort to man "rapid-response teams" for "photographic proof" and keep Roledexes up to date.
Comment: Well, it is somewhat heartening to see by comments here that not everyone has been hoodwinked by the mainstream media. Georgia was the aggressor. Full stop.
It was just a handful of months ago that news of the Pentagon's illegal propaganda campaign broke (it clearly violates US law relating to covert government propaganda).
Given American's trait of short term memory I think people should do an internet (NOT mainstream media, for heaven's sake) search to get a refresher.
Central to this article is a good Lt. Col.'s comments. Note that the Lt. Col is presently at CSIS which has a reputation as a "conservative propaganda machine". So "buyer beware".
...More than "buyer beware"!...one needs to seriously consider whether the author of this article phone number is in some Roledex at CSIS.
The author is one John Barry, who on the eve of the invasion of Iraq penned an article that included this:
"To combat Saddam???s psychological warfare and refute disinformation, CENTCOM has created a "rapid-response team." CENTCOM will try to provide photographic proof to back up its claims, releasing footage from gun cameras and other weapons systems as well as before-and-after photographs from satellites"
You see, there was fear that collateral damage would be pinned on the US instead of where it belonged -- "the enemy".
John Barry's article continued:
"Truth may not be an adequate defense. [...] Shocked by television images of human carnage, demonstrators will take to the streets at home and abroad. Politicians will call on Bush to get it over with, to declare victory and go home."
We shall note that concern about collateral damage was well founded. Hundreds of thousands have been injured or killed in the conflict so far. But the Pentagon makes no effort itself of estimating numbers. They do go to considerable effort to man "rapid-response teams" for "photographic proof" and keep Roledexes up to date.
Comment: From Russia. These conflicts last on caucasus hundreds years. Personally I am not glad that Russia again has walked smack in this dung. The USA has similar walked smack too. If we are torn apart because of ambitions of local Caucasian princelings - there to all of us both road. The USSR and the USA have kindled Afghanistan and till now the conflict is not extinguished. On caucasus probably too most also will last hundreds years. How many will burn money and lives in this hole!From Russia. These conflicts last on caucasus hundreds years. Personally I am not glad that Russia again has walked smack in this dung. The USA has similar walked smack too. If we are torn apart because of ambitions of local Caucasian princelings - there to all of us both road. The USSR and the USA have kindled Afghanistan and till now the conflict is not extinguished. On caucasus probably too most also will last hundreds years. How many will burn money and lives in this hole!
Comment: Sir, if we can get Russia into the WTO, and given favored nation trading status, full access to our markets, liberal terms in business, and rule of law as Medvedev wants, we all win. Unless Russia is made a NATO member, no further states should be added to NATO.
There is time to undo the stupid things, if there is a change in governing here, and a long view of progress is taken. This incident was most unfortunate, and a complete embarassment on the scale of the bay of pigs. The 20 NATO warships now in the Black Sea are an attempt to save face, which must not be misread as a provocation.
If things go too far, the next Administration here will not be able to set a completely new course. They will be hampered by events not of their own making, but of the designs of fools.
Comment: Misters! And to you it would be pleasant if at your fence the armed people walked. Built strengthenings near to your house, put guns in your party. I think to you would be not cosy in the house!
Comment: I am sorry and wish it had never happened. I want to make amends.
Comment: It's their boarder of course they are always ready, you think!!!
Comment: Sir, their mech was late to the fight. It was however not a distant line of communication, as it was nearby to camp Chechnya. Their Air Force also performed miserably, was not integrated with ground command, showed no initiative, and they had to use bomber aircraft for recon. (which were popped easily with manpads)
Ivan wasn't ready for this crap. Although there had been sporadic violence along the border, mortaring and light artillery, Georgia did as you have pointed out, fire the first substantial shots. They also perpetrated an attack on Russian soil proper, at Sochi, killing civilians. They opened up like they had assurances. I am rather convinced Cheney gave them the go-ahead.
As to territorial claims and borders, Our own State Department maps clearly show South Ossetia and Abkhazia to be in dispute as of 1994. They also show the substantial mineral resources in play, from Baku to Poti. Gold, Tungsten, Manganeese Gas and Oil.
Russia had a very poor battleplan and it was executed in the classic massed armor formations that a modern military would devastate. They obviously didn't play an A game, as they did not see one coming.
Comment: So according to you it goes from an "unidentified force" to Georgian military attacking Sochi? "In dispute" does not mean independent sovereign nation. Noone recognized SO and Abkhazia before this conflict and only Russia and a bunch of unrecognized territories recognized SO and Abkhazia (Hamas, Nagorny Karabakh, Pridnestrov'ye.) Russia stokes these fires to keep free, democratic countries around them unstable. Georgian gov'nt offered an autonomy with representation in the central gov'nt to both SO and Abkhazia, but Russia whispers: "just keep firing mortars and shooting and we'll get you independence." Well now they have it - an independence recognized by noone, with destroyed towns and villages to boot.
Comment: You can add Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba I believe as of today. You also correctly note my blaming Georgia for the attack on Sochi. Since I do not believe the United States did it, and I doubt the Russians did it, that kind of leaves the people who started a war. Maybe I should have blamed them earlier in full, but I was trying to skirt around it. Bust me for weaseling, as I did skirt around it.
Comment: To Braes @ 09/07/2008 09:34:33
Hey, they did pretty good for all the mistakes you pointed, the whole thing lasted less than 4 days, based on your standards we have performed really bad lately in Iraq ( more than 5 years) and Afghanistan (more than 7) and we have deployed many more soldiers, and we have better weapons.
Comment: We really did screw up in Iraq. No argukent here at all. I can also admit I bought into the mushroom cloud gig. Sucker of the first order.
We never engaged in a counter-insurgency strategy because Bush would have had to admit his colossal screw up wasn't working out, so we stayed a course, stood down as they stood up, and other Rusmfieldian tripe. No defense of our failure to get Osama. No Defense of our misadventure in Iraq.
In fact, I am kind of embarassed about it.
Comment: Why should we pay good American money to rebuild Georgia's military and start a war with the eastern side of the world...why? Georgia started this fight and got their a%^es kicked and we are suppose to come come up the mess. I would not even send humanitarian aid, because those dumb leaders would do it again and draw us into a war. They can't beat Russia and they want us to do it for them. Russia's Navy is having port call's in South America, Russia and China have a Defense agreement. Do think we can beat up on Russia like we did little Iraq. Is Georgia worth the 1000's and 1000's of youth American live, is that all the military is for...are we trying to rule the world?
Comment: I agree with bthumber. In stead of spending billions on propping up countries that waste the money away how about we use the money to develop a highly trained professional military instead of forcing National Guard units and Reservists to give years of their lives to poorly thought out and executed wars.
How about we start using our heads and quit supporting every conflict that benefits our economic needs while we avoid international disasters that have no economic impact on us. What do you say we pick 5 countries to support and then we ask the UN to handle the rest. Has anyone taken a survey lately how many service men & women we have stationed through out the world and how many conflicts or diplomatic flashpoints we are trying to cover? Consider how many the Chinese & Russians have and you can see the reason for our slow demise. Let's get it together and invest in our own country before we are so overspent that we are totally ineffective (as we were in Georgia). We may not like the Russians or Chinese but they outplay us 90% of the time (Maybe I'm confusing that stat with how much McMaverick voted with Bush). My final comment is that I really hope the country realizes what dangers that hot head and his new stoolie pose to the world. I'm an unemployed Republican with years of skills and experience that aren't worth a d*mn in today's economy. My investments have declined 30% over the past three years and I haven't seen squat from the administration except for $1200 that went to pay monthly bills. I'm going for Obama/Biden because I think he's three times as intelligent as any one of the current admin yokels and he will prove to be a Grandmaster at chess on the world stage.
Comment: Thanks, Dooby; your comments are possibly the most truthful on this web so far.
If we just would learn to keep our nose out of everyone else's business, we'd be a helluva lot better off all around.
The idea is exactly what Joe Biden said 09/07/08 on Meet the Press about abortion. Just because I may think or believe a certain way, does not mean I must force everyone else to think the same way!!!!
Comment: But Obama's foreign policy is essentially the same as McCain's, just as interventionist if not as hot-headed. And I like Joe Biden as a person quite a bit, but he helped illegally 'delegate' the power to Bush to start an undeclared war with Iraq, and we know how that worked out. Biden is supposed to be Obama's foreign policy guru (along with Madeleine Albright, a hawk if there ever was one), so he's no better than what we've had. Vote against all of them and demand a return to Constitutional government.
Comment: Maybe not. Obama is vulnerable (if at all) from the political "Right". His campaign rhetoric reflects his electoral situation, and may not accurately depict his views (as is usual with politicians running for office) so much as what he thinks must be said for him to get elected. The practical reality is that, in this election, we CAN'T "vote against all of them": either McCain or Obama will be elected. While I agree with all or most of the assertions Don'tTread makes here, I hope and believe there is a difference between Obama and McCain... even though I'm a Republican, I will be voting for Obama, simply because I think we will never return to traditional American values, including respect for the Constitution, if the electorate doesn't first, and soundly, repudiate Bushism.
Comment: Add also India, to the Russian roster. Say India made a play for the British Indian Ocean Territory (Diego Garcia) in order to remove the United States Strategic bomber base there. (We use this to strike targets throughout the Mid East to Asia)
This would be no Faulklands campaign, as India has already defeated Britain for it's independence, and has a substantial 5th column presence in Britain with passports.
The amount of potential "Hot" to a neo-Coldwar is breathtakingly scary. The Indian Air force can strike Diego with current assets. They don't have to occupy it, they can reduce it below the surf in a few hours. (Or one nuke, of which they have a few, unlike Argentina... or Iraq...)
Speaking to the world from the mindset of "no options are off the table" will eventually result in the rest of the world developing the capacity to speak to you the same.
Comment: Silliness. India is not about to attack the United States OR Britain...not over Diego Garcia, certainly, which is amply defended. As for NUKING Diego Garcia, that is absurd. India doesn't have an ICBM fleet to threaten Britain or the continental United States, but both the UK and US DO have such arsenals; in some lunatic world where India did such a thing, it would be a century before anyone could again survive in the smoking hole where India previously was. All that said, I tend to agree with Braes that this idiot Bush regime and its implicit military threats (ie, "no options are off the table") will eventually bring us lots of grief . In fact, it already has. If we REALLY don't want Iran to develop nuclear weapons, threatening to use military force on them is exactly the wrong approach.
Comment: Note the opening... say.. as in real big stretch, but Russia using a puppet, as we do. Mutually assured Destruction isn't so assured anymore.
Comment: Here we go again. Lets rebuild and neglect our broken Bushwacked economy at home.
Comment: This morning while most of America was still asleep, or in Church, the Treasury Secretary announced the Federal Bailout of Fannie-Mae and Freddie-Mac. Another multi-billion bailout for the investors and and parachutes for the executives. (No prosecution)
Now let some 9 year old steal a candy bar...
Just what did Bush mean when he swore to "see that the laws are faithfully executed?" His has been a very Orwellian concept of the Department of Justice.
Comment: Let Georgia go to Russia for aid, let's keep our finger out of it, and what is that Cheney doing their, every time I look at him, he looks like someone gave him a hard left hook, he doesn't belong their, whats he trying to do, it was Georgia's fault let them make peace with Russia and keep this country out of it, our nose doesn't belong their, bring Cheney home.
Comment: Should the us help rebuild the Georgia military...no! Look are we ready for WWIII? What is Georgia to us, are we getting oil from them, do you think Russia is going to sit back, should we be rebuilding our own military? Right now Russia is starting military exercises on our side of the world.
Comment: I'm happy if we send humanitarian aid but no significan military aid. We westerners have never been very good at understanding the eastern Europe political and ethnic situation. Let Russia handle the military end here. Its about time they started sharing 'global policeman' duties. Russia is more dependent on Russian oil revenue than anyone else. Getting pipelines running again, and adding more oil capabilities benefits them as much as the oil users. That takes a stable Georgia. Also since Russia is non OPEC then keeping their oil flowing is security against OPEC supply cutbacks. I'll let the cost of the Georgia resolution be paid in rubles instead of dollars.
Comment: Russia is in OPEC, genius. Nice call. The whole reason they invaded Georgia is to either take or destroy the pipeline in order to maintain the Russian monopoly on Caspian Sea oil. Do you really think is is a good idea to appoint the bank robbers as security guards just because you see them in the bank with guns? Why would Russia be interested in rebuilding or stabilizing Georgia when they just finished throwing away their international credibility by destroying and destabilizing it?
Comment: BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT Russia is not in OPEC.
The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) is a cartel of thirteen countries made up of Islamic Republic of Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Socialist People's Libyan Jamahiriya, Algeria, Nigeria, Angola, Venezuela and Ecuador. The organization has maintained its headquarters in Vienna since 1965,[1]
Comment: Well said, and I agree. Have you thought of running for office?
Comment: Good to see you in the fray Ma'am.
Comment: to ahchad, actually, you just made yourself look like a moron. When the Georgians Assaulted SO they shelled Russian Peace Keeper bases, killing 10-20 of them, the Russians were not the Aggressors in this, the Georgians are the ones who broke a 10 year cease fire thinking that the Russians would do nothing.
Comment: Russia attacking Georgia is like a Great Dane eating a poodle. That is understood no matter how one would train their forces.To say that we did not train them for all types of warfare short of nuclear is a lie. And if it is not...then why did we spend millions of dollars only teaching them to shoot cans off the neighborhood fence? Some friend we are to Georgia.
Comment: so what did we train them for and spend millions of dollars in doing it? Send them out to shoot cans off a fence....I don't think so. Russia is like a great Dane attacking a poodle.It is understood that the poodle will never win in an extended confrontation. But all the tools short of nuclear capabilities should be there....no matter how small. To say that we did not train them for all types of conventional warfare is a fantasy..and if its not...then we just sold out our so called "friends".
Comment: The US should help the Georgian economy and its people who are in poverty by providing jobs, education, medical health and other necessities. The US can never make the Georgian military to take on the Russians but enough for self defence. To prevent further conflicts, Georgia should be like Finland, being non-alliance.
Comment: To scottmorley@sbcglobal.net: While I partially agree that Russia should have a right to protect their borders and keep "perceived enemies" at bay. That last line in your post makes clear that you are a total moron! I can't even think of one similarity between the two. Russia attacked Georgia doofus! Go down to the local community college and study up son. Maybe then you will understand the vast and complex differences between 2008 and 1939. Sigh....please don't be an American. We have enough doofuses already.
Oh ya, and ???encircling the Russians???? Oh ya that???s us. Encircling a nation that conquered ALL of it???s neighbors until they couldn???t afford to keep them captive any longer. Oh aren???t we the bully.
Comment: wrong "doofus". The Georgians started it. Might be you who needs the education..... Look it up.
Comment: The South Ossetians started it with the go signal from Russia. YOU Go look it up.. You think Russia can mobilize like that if its not planned. THINK.
Comment: Artillery and mortar duels between irregulars on both sides have been occuring for months. Russia also restored rail links in both Ossetia and Abkhazia and handed out passports, somewhat spoiling for a fight. However, and this is quite certain, the attack and escalation to full hostilities were begun with a substantial rocket-artillery barage into Tshkinvali on 07 AUG 08. This barrage followed the killings of Russians at recognized checkpoints by Georgian regulars, and an attack on Russia proper at Sochi by forces not yet identified. The checkpoints and observation posts that were attacked by Georgia in the opening of full hostilities were a result of a civil war that Georgia lost in 1992-3. Georgia had made security concessions to end the conflict.
As for Russian Mobilization, it was poor. Had they determined the time and place of attack, they would be in Tblisi today. The Russian 58th was in the region of North Ossetia and Ingusetia, near Chechnya. Most of these units began moving from garrisons south 36+hours into the conflict. Russia also did not have an integrated battleplan, and his Air units were pitiful.
Right now, I would imagine that there are few in their General Staff anywhere near a Dacha, or glass of vodka. I would suspect that they are now being re-acquainted with their units in the field...
Comment: To scottmorley@sbcglobal.net: While I partially agree that Russia should have a right to protect their borders and keep "perceived enemies" at bay. That last line in your post makes clear that you are a total moron! I can't even think of one similarity between the two. Russia attacked Georgia doofus! Go down to the local community college and study up son. Maybe then you will understand the vast and complex differences between 2008 and 1939. Sigh....please don't be an American. We have enough doofuses already.
Oh ya, and ???encircling the Russians???? Oh ya that???s us. Encircling a nation that conquered ALL of it???s neighbors until they couldn???t afford to keep them captive any longer. Oh aren???t we the bully.
Comment: The US has no business militarily encircling The Russian Federation. Its a blatant Imperialist adventure. Russia has the right like the US to have a sphere of influence. Its time for the US to dismantle its worldwide military machine or face what Germany faced in the 40's
Comment: That is coming, but few in the United States are going to go look for it. Russia China India and Brazil met a month back in Moscow, beginning an alternative to our dominion. That is already more than 1/2 of the worlds human resource beginning an 'alter-globalism' to supplant ours.
They won't have to take us down in General Combat. They can beat us economically. They have seen it done before, by Reagan. They can give us enough brush wars in remote places as to bleed us white.
The EU will sit it out, and watch the Euro turn the dollar into a reichsmark.
Bush has jammed his star wars stuff into Ivan like suppositories. Ivan feels violated. We helped the Pakistanis develop their nuke and let them steal klystrons from here to make them, so India has issues with us, China may hold a bunch of our debt and be reliant on us as a trading partner, but that is a hope. For sure, if they wanted to retake Taipei tomorrow they could. As a command-totalitarian state they could easily abrogate a profitable relationship with us. Especially for a strategic purpose. As for Brazil, (and most of Latin America in the last 8 years+) they are ideologically closer to Russia than their hemisphere's colossus. They also have friction with their spanish-speaking neighbors.
We likely will not face a smackdown, as much as Isolation. (Passive-agressive is easier.)
Comment: Under a President Obama & VP Joe Biden administration, the 7 year long multi-biilion $$$$$ futile Iraq War (which has become the MOST COSTLY US military operation whose major responsibilities include security detail and rebuilding of Iraq's destroyed infrastructure, otherwise referred to "nation building" which GW Bush clearly stated he would never allow US military forces to undertake during his debates with former Democratic Presidential candidate VP Al Gore in 2000) would come to an end and America's militray forces would be re-deployed to Afghanistan and possibly Pakistan to prioritze our nation's efforts to destroy terrorist groups and kill Osama bin Laden, and free up our military brigades to aid our European ally, Georgia. Instead of standing in front of a jumbo screen monitor with scenes form 9/11, McBush should have been standing in front of the tragic Minneapolis bridge collapse, the devastation from Hurricane Katrina, the destruction form California's wildfires, and the terrible flooding along the Mississippi River. As a nation, we cannot contiune to use images of Sept. 11th if we are to progress and plan America's future. Shame on McCain and Palin for using the slogan "Country First", I am more convinced than ever that our country needs Senators Obama and Biden as our next President and Vice-President of these United States of America.
Comment: No ! There is no way we are responsible for their situation. It is about time the US stops sending our money to every other country that has issues, or wines they are needy. We have MANY issues here is the US, homes being lost due to scams, unemployment, homeless families, children going hungry and needing medical treatment, seniors going hungry, to name a few. The US needs to man up and start taking care of the AMERICAN BORN citizens !!! RJ - Washington St.
Comment: So American citizens born elsewhere need not be taken care of, correct? You are one of the things that is wrong with our country.
Comment: what we need to do is stop trying to be the policemen of the world. bring all our troops home from japan,germany,and the rest of the countries and protect our country,stop giving money to everyone,until we bring the deficet down. this stupid government borrows money from china and others and just give it away to other countrys.how stupid can you be.we have needs in this country,or there are many in the world that would love to see this country fail.get rid of these neo-cons and republicans lining their pockets at the expence of the american people.
Comment: With the US economy in shambles, wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, $6T+ in debt, a failing education system, increasing unemployment, a banking/ mortgage crisis, and a horrible standing internationally- why on earth would we rebuild another countries military when Georgia was the original aggressor?
Comment: Sir, the current account defecit is $6Trillion. The full-up obligations of Medicare, Social Security, Veterans Pensions, Civil Service Retirements, etc. is projected at $58T if I am not mistaken. We are indeed in deep doo doo. (BTW I love the congressional candidate up near Reno, Jill Derby. She gets it.) Solid Lady.
Comment: Why is there no discussion as to what this is really about? Take a big guess: OIL.. America wants a pipeline through Georgia.....a government we can control. This is the only way to get to oil to us from the Caspian Sea. Going though Moscow would leave us vulnerable. Did anyone notice good old Dick Cheney hanging around? Putin doesn't want us taking oil out of the Caspian for ourselves...they want control.
Comment: We already have these pipelines, which are much of Europe's energy supply. Russia deliberately avoided them in the conflict. (I would have taken them out right after dropping power, rail, and road assets.) What is funny here is that our little misadventure put all of that at risk for what gain? Scaring people to hell? Scaring Poland into signing a deal?
Comment: Absolutely not. Let these USA lead fools struggle on their own. Any country this stupid has to be of ailing mind in any case.
They got what they deserved and America has be incredibly stupid in helping these countries to begin with. Your tax dollars at work in the slime and muck of the White House..
Comment: By arming Geogia's army and bringing them into NATO, you are creating a moral hazard. In other words, Geogia will feel little risk in attacking South Ossetia again (in case you didn't know, the side we are supporting attacked first), becase good old uncle sam will be there to protect them this time thanks to NATO's rules (an attack on one is an attack on all). And guess who will pay the price, yes that's right uncle sam. Oh, and in case you thought that this would be a principled fight, it would, but for mostly for the other side. That is because the vast majority of South Ossetians do not want to be part of Georgia. They want their self-deptermination, freedom and independence. This was the same principle that the West fought for when it defended the Kosovars in 1999 by bombing Serbia for 78 days. So by rearming Georgia's military, we are in effect encouraging the denial of another people's human rights and freedom. And in case you thought the principle we are defending is a country's territorial integrity, obviously that is BS, we we all saw earlier this year when we accepted Kosovo's declaration of independence (which meant the denial of Serbia's territorial integrity).
Comment: Georgia responded to constant mortar barrages by the separatists who are armed and supported by Russia. That's for the "side that attacked first comment." The reason Russia supports separatists in S.Ossetia and Abkhazia is to destabilize the only truly Democratic, pro-western government in the region that does not bow to them.
Comment: Sir, I agree with the moral hazard concept here. If I may however, we have been assigning our Moral Hazards to others, through treaties. Our long list of foreign entanglements is staggering. Geo Washington would puke.
Comment: This war started when Georgia attacked a province who's people don't want to be part of Georgia (just like the Kosovars didn't want to be part of Serbia). This province was at relative peace for 16 years before this attack. When Kosovars wanted to be free of Serbia, Western leaders and media frames focused on the denial of Kosovar human rights. When Ossetians want to be free of Georgia, Western leaders and media frames focus on Georgia's erritorial integrity. We never heard that the vast majority of South Ossetia's people don't want to be part of Georgia (as we did in Kosovo). While the
West bombed Serbia for wanting to protect its territorial integrity in 1999, it supports Georgia who wants to deny the Ossetians the same rights as the Kosovars received through Western recognition. Is this not blatant hypocrisy and a failure to apply principles equally? I have not heard one logical explanation of why South Ossetia should be treated differently than Kosovo if one is to apply principles equally in international relations. Someone please explain why this is anything than other than power politics (where ethics only a rhetorical guise by the powerful)
Comment: Constant cross border shootouts and machine gun and mortar attacks are not a "relative peace for 16 years." Russia supported Montenegro's independence, opposed Kosovo's, supported Abkhazia's and S.Ossetia's and fought to stop Chechnya's. Now they are recognizing S. Ossetia and Abkhazia. So who is hypocritical here?? The answer is everyone at some point but don't use Kosovo as an excuse for Russia.
Comment: We have to go and spend our tax dollars ,while we are hurting here. This is another mess of Bush-McCain- Cheney. I don't thinks so. What about investing in our own bridges, freeways, schools,education etc. I could keep on naming our needs in this country. We already give them enough!!!
Comment: OK, let me get this straight. We went into Georgia to help their "ragtag Army" to be a better fighting force and overlooked teaching them tactics concerning "tanks, artillery and helicopters"? Since WWII the basic ground warfare doctrine has centered around blitzkrieg and envelopment, which means the use of highly mobile forces bearing awesome firepower; since the 14th century indirect fire has been central to western warfare; and since the Korean war the tactical use of combined arms to deliver teams quickly and unexpectedly has been central to all major tactical operations, and is ESPECIALLY suited to counter-terrorist/-insurgency missions. How could we, then, have simply failed to mention any of these "conventional" tactics in our training of Georgian troops? This is absolute bull. What we're concerned with over there is getting people on our side who will fight our so-called "War on Terror" for us cheaper than will all those mercenary companies we've made into Fortune 500 successes. Besides that, we're concerned with three things: 1) there's an election coming up and those pansy-assed Washington chickenhawks (from both parties) have to look tough; 2) shoveling money into the hands of our out-of-control military industry in the guise of "equipping" foreign powers to protect themselves (from threats we won't deem necessary to tell them about); 3) to protect our precious "national interest" in Georgia's oil reserves. What a crock. Americans wake up! Vote against all these idiots who play Monopoly with the world, wagering the lives of our soldiers and entire people groups in order to have the most money at the end of the game. Enough! Back to Constitutional government! Obama won't save you! McCain will send you to die. Join the New Revolution, the Campaign for Liberty, and let our country once again belong to "We the People".
Comment: Sir, I hear a traditional paleo-conservative mindset. I concurr.
I will however choose the lesser of two evils and hope for change. Given a global schism that can lead to conflagration as a result of a McCain/Palin Administration, I have to vote against them.
I love their children, and the rest of the world's children, more than they do.
Comment: Braes, I can tell you're an intelligent person. If you want REAL hope for REAL change then demand a return to Constitutional government, not simply the "lesser of two evils". Unfortunately, both McCain and Obama have nearly identical interventionist foreign policies, and both are willing to start a (undeclared, and hence illegal under the Constitution) war with Iran to protect our "interests". I understand you may see a vote for a Libertarian, a Green, a Constituionalist or other such party, or a write-in vote for Ron Paul, as a 'waste' of your vote, but it is not - a vote is a citizen's voice, and if the 1.2 million people who voted in the Republican primaries for sound Constitutional principles by voting for Ron Paul would all write in Dr. Paul's name on their ballots in November, those voices would become a shout. Besides, acting on principle and voting your heart and conscience is never a bad thing to do. "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lo
