GEORGIA

Russia’s Nervous Neighbors

By John Barry | NEWSWEEK
Published Sep 6, 2008
From the magazine issue dated Sep 15, 2008

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  • Posted By: Johnsm @ 05/01/2009 12:33:05 PM

    The United States, NATO, and the European Union have expressed serious concern over border defense agreements signed by Russia and the separatist Georgian regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, saying the treaties go against ceasefire deals brokered after last summer's Georgian war.

    U.S., NATO, and EU statements said the deals contravene Russia's commitments under the August 12 EU-brokered ceasefire agreement that ended the brief war between Russia and Georgia last August.

    Under the deal, signed on April 30 in Moscow by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev the separatist leaders of the two regions, Russia has formally taken responsibility for the defense of Abkhazia's and South Ossetia's de-facto borders with the rest of Georgia.

    Moscow recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states after last summer's war.

    The signing of the treaties came one week before NATO is due to hold exercises in Georgia that Russia has objected to, and shortly after NATO this week expelled two Russian diplomats from the alliance's Brussels headquarters over spying allegations.

    For your information: The majority of the population, about 300,000 Georgians, were driven out of their homes from Abkhazia and South-Ossetia. Thousands of civilians were murdered by Abkhaz militias.

    Read more about: http://digitalcaucasus.blogspot.com

  • Posted By: rangerone314 @ 09/11/2008 2:37:58 PM

    If I was President Bush, I'd send the CIA into Georgia with some polonium to take out Saakashvili, and make it look like the Russians did it, then make sure another pro-American leader comes to power in Georgia. Then I'd deploy 4 or 5 thousand American peacetroopers in Georgia.

    Everyone would think the Russians took out Saakashvili, and at the same time, we'd get rid of that adventurous fool Saakashvili .

    • Posted By: rangerone314 @ 09/23/2008 3:40:21 PM

      I'm truly "impressed" by the amount of "pull" Russia has with Iran and North Korea.

      I'm vicious but not stupid. I didn't say I'd deploy American troops adjacent to South Ossetia... I'd deploy them around the capital and the main ports to discourage a complete takeover of Georgia, now or in the future. Let the Russians have South Ossetia; they'll probably choke on it in the long run like Chechnya.

    • Posted By: comrade87 @ 09/12/2008 9:13:22 AM

      so... let me get this straight.... you want to put 4-5000 US troops across from 7-8000 Russian Troops, which will be based in S. Ossetia soon.

      Not to mention that Russia is the only nation on Earth that has the Ability to match the Amount of Nuclear Weapons possesed and to also be able to fire them.

      oh, and how about the small fact that russia is also one of the major players in the world with nuclear power, one of the few which have the ability to influence other nations, like North Korea, and Iran, actually, they are the only ones who in the end have real pull on these nations.

  • Posted By: nomoreoil @ 09/19/2008 11:31:25 AM

    Its OK becuase McCain, Bush Cheney and Bish?binLaden want WAR as we speak Russia is flying around with their bombers off our coast in military exercises sparked by our Need to control the OIL and theirs! Get rid of the OIL and we get rid of these issues, whay should we put missles in their back yard and call them irrelevant and war mongers when we are leading the way! All in the name of OIL Wake the ____ up America!!

  • Posted By: onepatriot @ 09/07/2008 8:21:11 AM

    It's their boarder of course they are always ready, you think!!!

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 9:34:33 AM

      Sir, their mech was late to the fight. It was however not a distant line of communication, as it was nearby to camp Chechnya. Their Air Force also performed miserably, was not integrated with ground command, showed no initiative, and they had to use bomber aircraft for recon. (which were popped easily with manpads)
      Ivan wasn't ready for this crap. Although there had been sporadic violence along the border, mortaring and light artillery, Georgia did as you have pointed out, fire the first substantial shots. They also perpetrated an attack on Russian soil proper, at Sochi, killing civilians. They opened up like they had assurances. I am rather convinced Cheney gave them the go-ahead.
      As to territorial claims and borders, Our own State Department maps clearly show South Ossetia and Abkhazia to be in dispute as of 1994. They also show the substantial mineral resources in play, from Baku to Poti. Gold, Tungsten, Manganeese Gas and Oil.
      Russia had a very poor battleplan and it was executed in the classic massed armor formations that a modern military would devastate. They obviously didn't play an A game, as they did not see one coming.

      • Posted By: Markov1918 @ 09/08/2008 4:49:44 PM

        So according to you it goes from an "unidentified force" to Georgian military attacking Sochi? "In dispute" does not mean independent sovereign nation. Noone recognized SO and Abkhazia before this conflict and only Russia and a bunch of unrecognized territories recognized SO and Abkhazia (Hamas, Nagorny Karabakh, Pridnestrov'ye.) Russia stokes these fires to keep free, democratic countries around them unstable. Georgian gov'nt offered an autonomy with representation in the central gov'nt to both SO and Abkhazia, but Russia whispers: "just keep firing mortars and shooting and we'll get you independence." Well now they have it - an independence recognized by noone, with destroyed towns and villages to boot.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 09/14/2008 2:07:34 AM

          You can add Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba I believe as of today. You also correctly note my blaming Georgia for the attack on Sochi. Since I do not believe the United States did it, and I doubt the Russians did it, that kind of leaves the people who started a war. Maybe I should have blamed them earlier in full, but I was trying to skirt around it. Bust me for weaseling, as I did skirt around it.

      • Posted By: oea65 @ 09/07/2008 5:21:35 PM

        To Braes @ 09/07/2008 09:34:33
        Hey, they did pretty good for all the mistakes you pointed, the whole thing lasted less than 4 days, based on your standards we have performed really bad lately in Iraq ( more than 5 years) and Afghanistan (more than 7) and we have deployed many more soldiers, and we have better weapons.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 09/08/2008 11:42:34 PM

          We really did screw up in Iraq. No argukent here at all. I can also admit I bought into the mushroom cloud gig. Sucker of the first order.
          We never engaged in a counter-insurgency strategy because Bush would have had to admit his colossal screw up wasn't working out, so we stayed a course, stood down as they stood up, and other Rusmfieldian tripe. No defense of our failure to get Osama. No Defense of our misadventure in Iraq.
          In fact, I am kind of embarassed about it.

  • Posted By: Kuksha @ 09/07/2008 9:05:06 AM

    From Russia. These conflicts last on caucasus hundreds years. Personally I am not glad that Russia again has walked smack in this dung. The USA has similar walked smack too. If we are torn apart because of ambitions of local Caucasian princelings - there to all of us both road. The USSR and the USA have kindled Afghanistan and till now the conflict is not extinguished. On caucasus probably too most also will last hundreds years. How many will burn money and lives in this hole!From Russia. These conflicts last on caucasus hundreds years. Personally I am not glad that Russia again has walked smack in this dung. The USA has similar walked smack too. If we are torn apart because of ambitions of local Caucasian princelings - there to all of us both road. The USSR and the USA have kindled Afghanistan and till now the conflict is not extinguished. On caucasus probably too most also will last hundreds years. How many will burn money and lives in this hole!

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 10:05:09 AM

      Sir, if we can get Russia into the WTO, and given favored nation trading status, full access to our markets, liberal terms in business, and rule of law as Medvedev wants, we all win. Unless Russia is made a NATO member, no further states should be added to NATO.
      There is time to undo the stupid things, if there is a change in governing here, and a long view of progress is taken. This incident was most unfortunate, and a complete embarassment on the scale of the bay of pigs. The 20 NATO warships now in the Black Sea are an attempt to save face, which must not be misread as a provocation.
      If things go too far, the next Administration here will not be able to set a completely new course. They will be hampered by events not of their own making, but of the designs of fools.

      • Posted By: Kuksha @ 09/08/2008 9:59:34 AM

        Misters! And to you it would be pleasant if at your fence the armed people walked. Built strengthenings near to your house, put guns in your party. I think to you would be not cosy in the house!

        • Posted By: Braes @ 09/14/2008 1:55:34 AM

          I am sorry and wish it had never happened. I want to make amends.

  • Posted By: quique11000 @ 09/13/2008 8:58:50 AM

    Palin said in her interview that helping Georgia is in the interest of the United States.

    I beg your pardon? What interest is it to us to increase tensions in Russia's backyard for a two bit state, led by a 2 bit puppet that we installed under the guise of free elections just to stir trouble in that region of the world?

    It is more in Russia's interest not to have us arming and training these idiots than for us it is to train them.


    Russia has no choice but to start arming the Taliban, the resistance in Iraq and starting trouble in other parts of

    the world to keep us busy and stop us from being the obnoxious pain the a$#s that we have become. Proof that it has started, the Israelis are asking the Russians not to sell advanced weapons to Syria and Iran. Really? It is not in Russia's interest to stop. That will keep Israel (who had 1000 advisers in Georgia) and us busy.

    Russia is probably now exploring how to overcome our ABM system and make it obsolete. How many of you have any doubts that this goal will be achieved? And if it is not, how many think that the ABM system in Poland will be completed without war?

    Also, while we waste our energy with this stupid little country, all of a sudden we forgot about China! When we wake up...surprise! It seems we did not learn too much from diverting our resources from Afghanistan to start a war in Iraq. We want to have our fingers in more dishes than we can afford.

    Or maybe this situation with Georgia is done with the purpose of keeping the Russians in an aggravated mood and the Europenas scared so that they aprove and more ABMS's. Nawww, this would be too smart for our leadership. Besides, how long will it take for the Europeans to realize this? After all, Russia is a major trading partner and how much would an ABM system help the earth with 50,000 nuclear weapons going off at once. Any guesses?

    It so seems that when we finally had achieved peace and were cooperating in several fronts, we push and push to destroy what previous leaders have achieved and bring us back the jaws of war. Ironically, the ones who are pushing us closer and closer to war are old f$%#ts that have nothing to loose since the days here are numbered. Our children will be the ones paying for their stupidity? arrogance? greed?

    The policy (Bush's Doctrine- LOL) we are following in Georgia is utter non-sense!

  • Posted By: sharkman @ 09/12/2008 11:38:07 PM

    Americans prepare for WWIII


  • Posted By: nation_usa_we _love @ 09/11/2008 11:15:07 AM

    powerful people , entities,nations and spuperpowers , and weaker entities must trly accept equitable treatments for all:see below:
    web search words viz kamalkarna roy " for detailed reflection of relevant issues in opinions of dr the reverend kamal karna roy , a U S born statesman and gopaffiliated political worker and leader of weaker citizens around globe.

  • Posted By: Karenn1 @ 09/11/2008 11:03:00 AM

    Get rid of Saakashuilli and the lion will go away. He did attack first,so Russian will make sure he doe not try it again.Put troops there waste of money. Not are oil pipe line that runs thru there.B P let them spend some money.

  • Posted By: KReviewerH @ 09/10/2008 3:36:06 PM

    This article seems to focus more on NATO than the actual conflict. Of course the US was training Georgians, but Russian actions may have solidified that reasoning to do so. There is no doubt that there is a powder keg in the making (if not already completed) in the Middle East, but more specifically in the once Soviet satellite states. These states have weak governments that are still in the process of solidifying their functions and their powers that encompass their new territories. By an established nation to jump into the mix, be it the US or Russia, always makes these processes slow down or pushes them in a direction more acceptable to the intruder. I doubt anything will come of this. The US military is too spread out, but Russia sees the previous military action the US has taken on countries such as Afghanistan who provided no threat when it came to military power. It is another Cold War stand down by both countries.

    • Posted By: System7 @ 09/11/2008 12:11:59 AM

      The world economy will not tolerate a new cold war. Vote for peace if you have small shares of weapon manufactures.

  • Posted By: blackcourt @ 09/08/2008 1:25:20 PM

    My vote would be to arm Georgia, train their soldiers and support their needs in crisis. They are a fledgling democracy that is attempting to take control of its borders much the same as any other country has during its inception. The big bully on the block, Russia, is attempting to force them into doing things their way. It is much the same in the other countries that broke away from the Soviet regime. Moldova is another example, Russian forces occupy a portion of their country as well, claiming to be protecting a tiny city from their own people. Russia is merely trying to maintain their monopoly on energy distribution into Europe and will do so by using force.

    • Posted By: System7 @ 09/10/2008 7:39:02 AM

      Just don't help Georgians kill Ossetians. Russia does not let them do this. The Georgian democracy itself is safe: Saakashvili is still the Georgian president, the Georgian parliament works, where it worked, and even speaks much against Russia.

  • Posted By: System7 @ 09/10/2008 7:21:57 AM

    Some Comments from the U.S. Congress:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIZu-rLLtlY

  • Posted By: Brighterfuture @ 09/09/2008 11:26:55 PM

    It seems to me that the situation in Georgia was very possibly in part provoked by some persons having some influence in the US. When one looks at the situation, the main question to ask is ":why now?" Obviously the president of Georgia is smart enough to know what he would be up against. The motivation I see for this, is that some elements in our nation would want the people to percieve that we need Senator McCain as president, who is a cold warrior from the past and would then be the "best" to protect us from an 'emergent" Russia. Although such persons may be well intentioned, I think if this is true, they need to be routed out and exposed. To me, they do not represent truth, neither justice nor the American way. I think a full investigation is warranted.

  • Posted By: Brighterfuture @ 09/09/2008 11:14:16 PM

    It seems to me that the Georgia conflict was very possibly partly provoked by some of those in power in the US. Some of those who may want to influence the election so that the people may think they need McCain, an old time cold warrior. I think if this is true, those elements in the US society need to be routed out and exposed. To me, they do not represent truth, neither justice nor the American way. I think a full investigation is warranted.

  • Posted By: Step3US @ 09/09/2008 10:29:06 PM

    Sounds like politics as usual, to me. The military cerrtainly may not have wanted any such thing. But Sen Mccain wanted something. And his foreign policy advisor got paid handily to for the exchange of advice. Georgia, it's seems, got the worst of the advice from team "We are All Georgians" now. And if left up to Senators Obama and Biden alone American taxpayers will pay over a billion dollars to clean up the mess.







    And to keep our military out of another conflict. I have zero faith in Mccain Palin to keep US from warring with

    Alaska's Russian neighbor. I have much more faith in Senators Obama and Biden to enlighten the US on

    such issues and to practice honest diplomacy with all involved including Israel, Russia, Georgia and the


    Middle Eastern nations.

  • Posted By: Step3US @ 09/09/2008 10:24:41 PM

    Sounds like politics as usual, to me. The military cerrtainly may not have wanted any such thing. But Sen Mccain wanted something. And his foreign policy advisor got paid handily to for the exchange of advice. Georgia it's seems got the worst of the advice from team "We are All Georgians" now. And if left up to Senators Obama and Biden alone American taxpayers will pay over a billion dollars to clean up the mess.







    And to keep our military out of another conflict. I have zero faith in Mccain Palin to keep US from warring with

    Alaska's Russian neighbor. I have much more faith in Senators Obama and Biden to enlighten the US on

    such issues and to practice honest diplomacy with all involved including Israel, Russia, Georgia and the


    Middle Eastern nations.

  • Posted By: poirot @ 09/08/2008 6:11:20 PM

    Georgian demovracy in a sense is a fake democracy. Saakashvili first came to power through a so called 'rose revolution' , which was a mutiny. After that he suppressed the opposition, opposition leader of that time is still missing. Then he went through election. After all why someone would consider democratic election a safeguard againnst aggression, war and destruction? All the Georgian leadres from 1993 and on were coming to power, epressing extremely mationalistic ideas. One nationalistic leader that we know very well came to power democratically and inmposed great suffering and terror all over the world. It was Adolf Hitler.

    • Posted By: blackcourt @ 09/09/2008 2:25:06 PM

      Sounds about like Russia then to me. Russia pretend to hold fair elections as well... except when there is a candidate who might actually challenge the status quo. Then they put a gag order on their media and create reason why the other candidates can't be listed on the Presidential election. Look at this past election when they prevented Kasparov from running.

  • Posted By: Kuksha @ 09/09/2008 9:53:01 AM

    From Russia. If to judge on all countries of the former USSR to democracy to go still very far. Still unstably also it is left unfinished. How so Georgia became suddenly democratic - having kissed someone's back? The USA instead of helping young democracies arranges dirty games in the interests. The conflict between Georgia and Ossetia could be solved one call from USA. The USA it was necessary to wait Russia will not be got involved yet?

  • Posted By: marty1969 @ 09/08/2008 11:39:10 PM

    You talk as if Russia is "Mafia clean"???? They have the most ruthless mafia in the world. Russia only gains from the conflict. They are certainly guilty of ethnic cleansing. What about what they have done in Chechnya? They are and will continue to bully and occupy their former territories....Watch out Ukraine is next.

    • Posted By: budda-I @ 09/09/2008 4:21:50 AM

      What Russia have done in Chechnya?

  • Posted By: Holly Garfield @ 09/07/2008 7:35:07 AM

    I'm happy if we send humanitarian aid but no significan military aid. We westerners have never been very good at understanding the eastern Europe political and ethnic situation. Let Russia handle the military end here. Its about time they started sharing 'global policeman' duties. Russia is more dependent on Russian oil revenue than anyone else. Getting pipelines running again, and adding more oil capabilities benefits them as much as the oil users. That takes a stable Georgia. Also since Russia is non OPEC then keeping their oil flowing is security against OPEC supply cutbacks. I'll let the cost of the Georgia resolution be paid in rubles instead of dollars.

    • Posted By: TheRealDealer @ 09/08/2008 5:34:15 PM

      Russia is in OPEC, genius. Nice call. The whole reason they invaded Georgia is to either take or destroy the pipeline in order to maintain the Russian monopoly on Caspian Sea oil. Do you really think is is a good idea to appoint the bank robbers as security guards just because you see them in the bank with guns? Why would Russia be interested in rebuilding or stabilizing Georgia when they just finished throwing away their international credibility by destroying and destabilizing it?

      • Posted By: Braes @ 09/08/2008 11:49:37 PM

        BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT Russia is not in OPEC.
        The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) is a cartel of thirteen countries made up of Islamic Republic of Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Socialist People's Libyan Jamahiriya, Algeria, Nigeria, Angola, Venezuela and Ecuador. The organization has maintained its headquarters in Vienna since 1965,[1]

    • Posted By: Don't Tread on Me @ 09/08/2008 3:38:37 AM

      Well said, and I agree. Have you thought of running for office?

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 5:01:18 PM

      Good to see you in the fray Ma'am.

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