Russia’s Nervous Neighbors

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  • Posted By: Kuksha @ 09/08/2008 9:46:55 AM

    From Russia. And can create is better a game rule for all identical. What is the boys did not kick small because of a back of the big uncles. The United Nations it is necessary to raise the importance. That United Nations decisions were obligatory for all. And here if someone starts to become impudent - then to accept rigid sanctions. But here is how it to make if at the countries different weight? And that who is stronger - that and the peacemaker! And now more strongly the USA are not present whom!

  • Posted By: System7 @ 09/08/2008 8:34:30 AM

    I agree that the USA didn't trained the Georgian army to beat Russia. I think the USA trained the Georgian Army to kill people of S.Ossetia and Abkhazia. Let's create a basis for peace in Georgia, Russia, and the USA, not for a new war. Peace is much better.

  • Posted By: reedsong1001 @ 09/08/2008 1:32:18 AM

    Wake up Americans. If Hamilton is telling the truth (that we didn't want this war) why are we rewarding rather than reprimanding Saakashvili? Why is McCain anxious to call him his "good friend" We could have stopped him from his initial attack on civilians with one phone call.
    While our attention has been on olympics & political conventions, another war is being planned; this time with Russia....!!!!

  • Posted By: Happy on Sanibel @ 09/07/2008 8:48:28 PM

    Braes,
    I get a kick out of your unconventional and very well written comments. Well thought out. You seem like a very worldly and intelligent person. Thanks!

  • Posted By: phantompoodle @ 09/07/2008 1:29:44 PM

    No, the United States should not spend any more tax payers money to 'help' other countrys. Does anyone besides me think that we're being taxed without representation? Isn't this something that our country was founded on? And if you don't vote, then don't answer!

  • Posted By: texjuanon @ 09/06/2008 6:06:23 PM

    Even if the Georgian military were trained and equipped to combat Russia, in the event of an all-out assault, there is no way to prevent Russia from overrunning that small nation. The imbalances in manpower and other resources are too great. In the interests of peace and stability, I believe that the United States should not enhance Georgia's military capabilities beyond the essentials necessary for Georgia to secure its existing borders and maintain its internal security. Anything beyond that would be interpreted as a provocation and a threat to Russia, and further destabilize the region. Therefore, Georgia's only true security must be in the form of international alliances.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 1:25:03 PM

      Meaning a permnent NATO presence? Want to lay out a nucler tripwire in another place?

      • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 1:27:18 PM

        (Sheesh I am starting to spell like a Bushy... Nuclear... sorry.)

  • Posted By: Happy on Sanibel @ 09/06/2008 8:32:27 PM

    All I want the readers of this comment to do is to sit back and think about this. After the fall of the communist block, relations between the west and Russia have been pretty good. Russia allowed the Soviet Union to break up, with relatively little bloodshed. All was well until recently. What happened? Did Russia really change that much, or was it someting else? I'm sure we all remember 1963 and the Cuban missile crisis; how can we not? Two years ago president Bush started poking the big bear by pushing Russia's neighbors to install AMERICAN missiles on their borders with Russia. The justification was to deter any Iranian missiles. Just a few weeks ago, Bush, Cheney and Rice pushed Poland to accept these missiles (in return for billions of $ in aid of course). I know most americans don't have a world map, but please, find one on the internet. Then explain to me how Poland of all places can be a justified place to put missiles to protect us from Iran?? It's TOTAL bogus. All this missile crap sure angered Russia, but it did not provoke them enough to do what the USA did back in '63 when the shoe was on the other foot. Clearly the neocons were dissappointed; elections were looming in the USA and at the same time the Iraqi Prime Minister was asking the US to leave. The only way the neocons were going to be able to win the elections was through fear. So the missile provocation failed. Next plan: have the puppet president of Georgia start a war with Russia, BINGO! It worked! A new cold war, a new enemy. Just what the republicans needed going into the November elections. It's all so blatantly obvious.... how can anyone NOT see this??? And please, please, imagine Russia trying to put missiles in Mexico, Canada and Cuba. Can you see it now?

    • Posted By: texjuanon @ 09/07/2008 1:25:28 AM

      Just a point of clarification: the missiles sent by the USSR to Cuba were offensive weapons presumably armed with nuclear warheads that presented an immediate threat to the USA. In contrast, the missiles to be installed in Poland and the Czech Republic are DEFENSIVE weapons with no nuclear capability designed for the downing of missiles fired in an attack by other nations. The two situations simply are not comparable. I don't support the Bush foreign policy, but let's be clear and honest about the facts.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 10:23:45 AM

        There is no such thing as a defensive weapon. We abrogated the Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty, and have developed a system to eliminate any threat to us. That means we will have the technical ability to strike anywhere with impunity, and shoot down the retaliation. That is why Russia is freaked out, and there is no guarantee of only ten missiles as cheating on arms agreements is a sport. If I were them I'd nuke the first truck I saw pouring a foundation for a radar or missile site withing 3000mi of their recognized borders, in any dimension.
        Defensive Missile. That cracks me up.
        Russia doesn't think it's funny at all.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 12:52:32 PM

          (Addendum: we have several thousand "Standard Missile III" systems deployed globally now, aboard nearly every surface combatant in NATO, that with a software modification can hit a cold object in space. Russia knows that we can with a few more backscatter and doppler radars and a little better computer eventually shoot down all of his missiles. His advisors have published an estimate of 2012-2015 for our system to be complete. It is not just a few interceptors in Poland, or one radar in the Czech Republic, but an entire integrated system. Many of the components are now off-the-shelf. We have some really awesome stuff. The problem is that level of threat to their stockpile is percieved in an almost use-it-or-lose-it way. Secretary Gates has said they are bluffing, and Dr. Rice has called them hysterical. I really do not want all of my chips on that hand, thank you.)

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 10:33:36 AM

      Nicaragua,Sir. Missiles in Nicaragua, with Danial Ortega at the switch, who we ran ops against and hunted like an animal. Let Russia hand that guy a few road mobile ICBMs. Think the Sandinista's like us?

  • Posted By: cm4297 @ 09/07/2008 8:14:14 AM

    Here we go again. Lets rebuild and neglect our broken Bushwacked economy at home.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 12:02:40 PM

      This morning while most of America was still asleep, or in Church, the Treasury Secretary announced the Federal Bailout of Fannie-Mae and Freddie-Mac. Another multi-billion bailout for the investors and and parachutes for the executives. (No prosecution)
      Now let some 9 year old steal a candy bar...
      Just what did Bush mean when he swore to "see that the laws are faithfully executed?" His has been a very Orwellian concept of the Department of Justice.

  • Posted By: alternative @ 09/06/2008 11:13:57 PM

    Spacer, yeah, I don't buy it either. Our administration is starting something because "terrorism" doesn't work anymore. Smart move, messing with the Russians. I am only grateful that Putin sees it for what it is, and isn't reacting. Trying to scare us into electing a republican, because they are the party that will keep us safe just doesn't work anymore. I cannot wait for Obama to get into office, so we can become the country we once were.

    • Posted By: jblackwell88 @ 09/06/2008 11:31:22 PM

      What are you talking about? Electing Obama will take us even FURTHER from what we were.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 11:43:51 AM

        I am so ready to take that chance.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 10:19:03 AM

      Remember, Republicans always have an October-suprise. This one just started early and ended poorly.

  • Posted By: ahchad @ 09/07/2008 3:32:26 AM

    To scottmorley@sbcglobal.net: While I partially agree that Russia should have a right to protect their borders and keep "perceived enemies" at bay. That last line in your post makes clear that you are a total moron! I can't even think of one similarity between the two. Russia attacked Georgia doofus! Go down to the local community college and study up son. Maybe then you will understand the vast and complex differences between 2008 and 1939. Sigh....please don't be an American. We have enough doofuses already.

    Oh ya, and ???encircling the Russians???? Oh ya that???s us. Encircling a nation that conquered ALL of it???s neighbors until they couldn???t afford to keep them captive any longer. Oh aren???t we the bully.

    • Posted By: alternative @ 09/07/2008 8:02:44 AM

      wrong "doofus". The Georgians started it. Might be you who needs the education..... Look it up.

      • Posted By: jetnet27 @ 09/07/2008 8:16:52 AM

        The South Ossetians started it with the go signal from Russia. YOU Go look it up.. You think Russia can mobilize like that if its not planned. THINK.

        • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 11:17:01 AM

          Artillery and mortar duels between irregulars on both sides have been occuring for months. Russia also restored rail links in both Ossetia and Abkhazia and handed out passports, somewhat spoiling for a fight. However, and this is quite certain, the attack and escalation to full hostilities were begun with a substantial rocket-artillery barage into Tshkinvali on 07 AUG 08. This barrage followed the killings of Russians at recognized checkpoints by Georgian regulars, and an attack on Russia proper at Sochi by forces not yet identified. The checkpoints and observation posts that were attacked by Georgia in the opening of full hostilities were a result of a civil war that Georgia lost in 1992-3. Georgia had made security concessions to end the conflict.
          As for Russian Mobilization, it was poor. Had they determined the time and place of attack, they would be in Tblisi today. The Russian 58th was in the region of North Ossetia and Ingusetia, near Chechnya. Most of these units began moving from garrisons south 36+hours into the conflict. Russia also did not have an integrated battleplan, and his Air units were pitiful.
          Right now, I would imagine that there are few in their General Staff anywhere near a Dacha, or glass of vodka. I would suspect that they are now being re-acquainted with their units in the field...

  • Posted By: Horseyboy @ 09/06/2008 11:41:41 PM

    Alternative: At which end of the income scale are you? Are you high-income? Obama won't touch you. Middle-income? By the end of Obama's first term, you won't have any way to defend your home. You won't even have a home, because he'll tax you to death. Low-income? Quit your job, baby. Obama will support the hell out of you. You won't have to work a day. All you'll have to do will be to continue following his line of drivel while the pinheads he uses for advisors gut the Constitution and turn this into a two-class society: the haves, and the have-nots.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 10:50:40 AM

      Obama doesn't want your guns. There is no real middle-class left to tax, as their wealth is generally below their debt level, so likely, those top 5%'ers are going to see the tax rates of the 1990's again.
      Obama knows you need your bibles and guns. You have been wrongly told all along that both are at risk. Neither the NRA nor heretical religious movements would be able to raise funds without fear as a prime motivator.

    • Posted By: alternative @ 09/07/2008 12:14:10 AM

      middle income. I don't care about the tax issue. I make less now than I used to and my money doesn't go as far either. The economy is in big trouble, believe it. This is after 8 years of this nonsense. It wouldn't matter to me if it were a democrat who did this, I'd vote against him too. It's whats best for my country, not myself. I'm no martyr, but we have to do better than this, for everyones sake. How can you defend them? And the comment about the constitution, I think Bush, Rove, Cheney and all the rest gutted it a few years ago. Before you call me unpatriotic, my brothers are career Air Force, dad fought in WWII, sister was a gunnery sgt. in the marines. So that argument doesn't fly either.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 10:18:16 AM

        I am a retired USAF flier, with all of my decorations, and I get called un-american and worse all of the time. When the lunatic-right loses on an issue, they go to the person every time. Classic Atwater/Rove filth.
        Divide and conquer has always worked. The have and have-not issue is so yesterday. The have's won. Class warfare is over. Identity politics are dying. We have turned our constitution into a neo-magna carta, and fought a series of wars not in our national interest. (Proxies included)

  • Posted By: chris_gins @ 09/07/2008 1:02:11 AM

    Why is there no discussion as to what this is really about? Take a big guess: OIL.. America wants a pipeline through Georgia.....a government we can control. This is the only way to get to oil to us from the Caspian Sea. Going though Moscow would leave us vulnerable. Did anyone notice good old Dick Cheney hanging around? Putin doesn't want us taking oil out of the Caspian for ourselves...they want control.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 10:44:51 AM

      We already have these pipelines, which are much of Europe's energy supply. Russia deliberately avoided them in the conflict. (I would have taken them out right after dropping power, rail, and road assets.) What is funny here is that our little misadventure put all of that at risk for what gain? Scaring people to hell? Scaring Poland into signing a deal?

  • Posted By: Otto207 @ 09/06/2008 9:33:57 PM

    Happy on Sanibel. I agree with you 100%.but there are too many blind sheep in this country and no matter what they see, they will always leave they self open to be misguided by the like of Bush,Cheney and McCain.

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 10:35:08 AM

      Sir, to follow the sheep analogy, shear them of their false comfort, tell them the truth, and send them into the cold to shivver a tad. (Do not return them to power)

  • Posted By: wildlifeusa @ 09/06/2008 7:08:58 PM

    Where is the usa going to take the money???? isn't the deficit 3 trillion dollars already??

    • Posted By: jblackwell88 @ 09/06/2008 11:34:08 PM

      The irony is that the Russian ruble is backed by GOLD whereas our money is strictly fiat currency. People laughed at Ron Paul for wanting to go back to the gold standard, but how EMBARRASSING it is to learn that Russian money has more value than our own.

      • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 10:30:52 AM

        Ivan has been stacking it in the basement for 6 years now, and has retired the Paris Club debts etc. The Ruble can become a reserve currency soon.

    • Posted By: jblackwell88 @ 09/06/2008 11:35:40 PM

      The deficit is about half a billion dollars. You're talking about the debt. Doesn't make you feel any better eh? :)

  • Posted By: Steve-Nevada @ 09/07/2008 1:07:50 AM

    With the US economy in shambles, wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, $6T+ in debt, a failing education system, increasing unemployment, a banking/ mortgage crisis, and a horrible standing internationally- why on earth would we rebuild another countries military when Georgia was the original aggressor?

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 10:11:15 AM

      Sir, the current account defecit is $6Trillion. The full-up obligations of Medicare, Social Security, Veterans Pensions, Civil Service Retirements, etc. is projected at $58T if I am not mistaken. We are indeed in deep doo doo. (BTW I love the congressional candidate up near Reno, Jill Derby. She gets it.) Solid Lady.

  • Posted By: scottmorley@sbcglobal.net @ 09/07/2008 3:18:11 AM

    The US has no business militarily encircling The Russian Federation. Its a blatant Imperialist adventure. Russia has the right like the US to have a sphere of influence. Its time for the US to dismantle its worldwide military machine or face what Germany faced in the 40's

    • Posted By: Braes @ 09/07/2008 9:51:54 AM

      That is coming, but few in the United States are going to go look for it. Russia China India and Brazil met a month back in Moscow, beginning an alternative to our dominion. That is already more than 1/2 of the worlds human resource beginning an 'alter-globalism' to supplant ours.
      They won't have to take us down in General Combat. They can beat us economically. They have seen it done before, by Reagan. They can give us enough brush wars in remote places as to bleed us white.
      The EU will sit it out, and watch the Euro turn the dollar into a reichsmark.
      Bush has jammed his star wars stuff into Ivan like suppositories. Ivan feels violated. We helped the Pakistanis develop their nuke and let them steal klystrons from here to make them, so India has issues with us, China may hold a bunch of our debt and be reliant on us as a trading partner, but that is a hope. For sure, if they wanted to retake Taipei tomorrow they could. As a command-totalitarian state they could easily abrogate a profitable relationship with us. Especially for a strategic purpose. As for Brazil, (and most of Latin America in the last 8 years+) they are ideologically closer to Russia than their hemisphere's colossus. They also have friction with their spanish-speaking neighbors.
      We likely will not face a smackdown, as much as Isolation. (Passive-agressive is easier.)

  • Posted By: runswithscissors @ 09/07/2008 9:15:10 AM

    Well, it is somewhat heartening to see by comments here that not everyone has been hoodwinked by the mainstream media. Georgia was the aggressor. Full stop.

    It was just a handful of months ago that news of the Pentagon's illegal propaganda campaign broke (it clearly violates US law relating to covert government propaganda).
    Given American's trait of short term memory I think people should do an internet (NOT mainstream media, for heaven's sake) search to get a refresher.

    Central to this article is a good Lt. Col.'s comments. Note that the Lt. Col is presently at CSIS which has a reputation as a "conservative propaganda machine". So "buyer beware".
    ...More than "buyer beware"!...one needs to seriously consider whether the author of this article phone number is in some Roledex at CSIS.

    The author is one John Barry, who on the eve of the invasion of Iraq penned an article that included this:

    "To combat Saddam???s psychological warfare and refute disinformation, CENTCOM has created a "rapid-response team." CENTCOM will try to provide photographic proof to back up its claims, releasing footage from gun cameras and other weapons systems as well as before-and-after photographs from satellites"

    You see, there was fear that collateral damage would be pinned on the US instead of where it belonged -- "the enemy".

    John Barry's article continued:

    "Truth may not be an adequate defense. [...] Shocked by television images of human carnage, demonstrators will take to the streets at home and abroad. Politicians will call on Bush to get it over with, to declare victory and go home."

    We shall note that concern about collateral damage was well founded. Hundreds of thousands have been injured or killed in the conflict so far. But the Pentagon makes no effort itself of estimating numbers. They do go to considerable effort to man "rapid-response teams" for "photographic proof" and keep Roledexes up to date.

  • Posted By: runswithscissors @ 09/07/2008 9:14:32 AM

    Well, it is somewhat heartening to see by comments here that not everyone has been hoodwinked by the mainstream media. Georgia was the aggressor. Full stop.

    It was just a handful of months ago that news of the Pentagon's illegal propaganda campaign broke (it clearly violates US law relating to covert government propaganda).
    Given American's trait of short term memory I think people should do an internet (NOT mainstream media, for heaven's sake) search to get a refresher.

    Central to this article is a good Lt. Col.'s comments. Note that the Lt. Col is presently at CSIS which has a reputation as a "conservative propaganda machine". So "buyer beware".
    ...More than "buyer beware"!...one needs to seriously consider whether the author of this article phone number is in some Roledex at CSIS.

    The author is one John Barry, who on the eve of the invasion of Iraq penned an article that included this:

    "To combat Saddam???s psychological warfare and refute disinformation, CENTCOM has created a "rapid-response team." CENTCOM will try to provide photographic proof to back up its claims, releasing footage from gun cameras and other weapons systems as well as before-and-after photographs from satellites"

    You see, there was fear that collateral damage would be pinned on the US instead of where it belonged -- "the enemy".

    John Barry's article continued:

    "Truth may not be an adequate defense. [...] Shocked by television images of human carnage, demonstrators will take to the streets at home and abroad. Politicians will call on Bush to get it over with, to declare victory and go home."

    We shall note that concern about collateral damage was well founded. Hundreds of thousands have been injured or killed in the conflict so far. But the Pentagon makes no effort itself of estimating numbers. They do go to considerable effort to man "rapid-response teams" for "photographic proof" and keep Roledexes up to date.

  • Posted By: onepatriot @ 09/07/2008 8:10:39 AM

    Let Georgia go to Russia for aid, let's keep our finger out of it, and what is that Cheney doing their, every time I look at him, he looks like someone gave him a hard left hook, he doesn't belong their, whats he trying to do, it was Georgia's fault let them make peace with Russia and keep this country out of it, our nose doesn't belong their, bring Cheney home.

  • Posted By: bthumber @ 09/07/2008 8:03:57 AM

    Should the us help rebuild the Georgia military...no! Look are we ready for WWIII? What is Georgia to us, are we getting oil from them, do you think Russia is going to sit back, should we be rebuilding our own military? Right now Russia is starting military exercises on our side of the world.

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