Struggling School-Age Boys

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  • Posted By: Kimberly40 @ 09/10/2008 12:10:59 PM

    I partly agree with the teachers comment below except when she states that we need good SAT scores to get into college which is true, but SAT scores have been around for a very long time and kids still scored well enough to get into good college without the pressure of standardized testing n schools. I believe that we should let kids learn in a enviroment that is not so pushy a rigid when it comes to the states standardized testing. Let teachers teach and kids leatn in a more relaxed enviroment..

  • Posted By: work_woman24 @ 09/10/2008 12:10:07 PM

    I think that this is so true, but parents need to also be aware that what they are feeding their children can effect how their child functions. I'm not saying that you have to be a vegetarian but when you feed your kids all this sugar it does nothing but effect them socially and physically. I think that boys and girls learn differently but schools need to slow down and teach children at there pace and not to expect so much from someone so young. and i think that it's also good for parents to take the time to teach their children instead of just leaving it up to the teachers and i think that there is no way that any parent should dope up there child unless it's necessary and they've already tried everything else. reese_cup_23

  • Posted By: rhood57 @ 09/08/2008 8:56:23 PM

    I think if we just educate boys and girls separately we will see an improvement. Boys are different and, unfortunately, female teachers at the elementary school level do not recognize this simple fact. Girl behavior has become the "gold standard" that is applied to everyone. No wonder we have this type of problem being reported when normal boy behavior is being labeled as deviant.

    • Posted By: fairman @ 09/10/2008 12:10:05 PM

      As a concerned father of a girl and a boy, I have read some of the litterature regarding the effect of society's treatment of boys and view of boy behavior. Teaching styles is a big part of this. Based on what the studies say, allowing boy behavior in school would be a good thing. Part of the problem is that the schools and classrooms are run by women. Even so, to overgeneralyze is still wrong. My son's kindergarten teacher was a woman and was fantastic--especially for boys. I am sure she is no exception and that there are many women who teach in a way that is helpful to boys as well as girls. Overall, however, many aspects of the education system are not selected by one person. For example, all of the fifth grade teachers at a school my vote on the selection of reading material, math, etc. If the majority are female, they will most likely pick female centric material, unless ALL of them are considerate of both male and female learning styles. This is only one aspect of the daily life of a child. There are many others, for example, policies in the classroom and in the school in general, playground rules what classes are offered and how often (like gym class), how many recesses there are in a day (in my grade school, one in the morning, after-eating-time at lunch and one in the afternoon), etc. Many polcies are adopted based on a consensus of the faculty and administrators--who are mostly women. Many of them produce a bad and sometimes even hostile envrionment for boys. For example, many boys thrive in a competitive environment while many girls do not--yet academic competitions are banned in many schools.

      I don't think that all of a sudden all schools in the US are going to go all-girl and all-boy.

      Thirty years ago and today, women argued and continue to argue that descrimination in a field can be seen simply by looking at the number of men and women in that field. If we look at teachers in the elementary school through these glasses, we see great discrimination against men in elementary schools. The argument then goes that there should be programs to help men get the credentials needed to become teachers--scholarships, fair (male centric) testing, bonus points for being male, etc--and there should be a hiring quota system in place called affirmative action. If the arguement is valid for firefighters and others, then why would it not be valid for teachers?

    • Posted By: talulu @ 09/10/2008 5:52:01 AM

      What credentials do you have to make such an asinine statement? What study have you read that reports female teachers are the cause of these problems?

      As a female and an educator I take great offence to this. You are just playing into a lame stereotype used as yet another excuse for why some students are not performing. I agree that educating boys and girls separately may be beneficial to SOME students. However, the last time I checked the real world does not cater to a persons every whim because it makes life easier. I also agree that there are SOME teachers who are very rigid and less tolerant of students' differences. HOWEVER, to characterize ALL female teachers as such is reckless and ignorant.

      The school I work at is filled with female teachers. It is also filled with rambunctious, curious, eager and sometimes wild students. Yes, students, both boys and girls who are wild, playful and in great need of time to run, tumble, fall and learn to pick themselves up without a band aid. The thing that you are not seeing is that the teachers allow and encourage this. Students are very active learners. They move about classrooms, consult each other, manipulate concrete objects and ponder questions beyond the grasp of their young minds. The school is in a major US city, we have high numbers of students living in poverty, there are a high number of students who are learning English as a Second Language yet it is a successful, positive place. A place where TEACHERS and administrators work together with parents and students to create productive members of society NOT a society who can pass a test and not much else. You should probable do a bit more research before you make such broad statements. My school is not the only one like this.

      • Posted By: Renolutionary @ 09/10/2008 11:32:24 AM

        Enter Your CommentWhen you put it all together, I think these three points are critical to the education deficiencies in boys. The over-coddling of the student body from administrators and educators regardless of gender (though female educators are more likely to coddle their students, I???ve personally gone through male administrations that do the same). The volume of students in classrooms, and the stress of a structured educational setting to maintain order in these classrooms stacks the deck against boys.

        Sorry, had to put this on two posts, cause of the 3000 character limit. :-)

      • Posted By: Renolutionary @ 09/10/2008 11:31:41 AM

        My hometown High school had a serious problem with arrests on campus a few years ago due to fights and drugs. The local paper detailed the issue and even asked the female principal about it and her response was ???there's a full moon out???. She has since been removed and another female principal has taken over and the rate at which police are called on campus has dropped somewhat. This new principal doesn't coddle the student body as much as the former did, and I think that this is the main reason behavioral problems at the school are dwindling. This isn???t so much about feminism and the educator???s gender so much as it is about the educator???s philosophy on discipline. When the student body feels that discipline is either non-existent or too lenient, they will run over you and behavioral problems begin to take over.
        My favorite grade in elementary was 3rd grade, and the class consisted of 4 boys with a male teacher. In fact if you were to ask the other three boys in this class with me what their favorite grade was, they will probably agree with me that 3rd grade was the best. Our male teacher created a positive learning atmosphere, and let us be the rowdy boys we were at the time. This was the fall of 1991 and spring of 1992. We had our PE class, and recess after lunch, where we played competitive sports on a regular basis (with either older or younger grades playing with us). Upon completion of our daily assignments, we worked on puzzles and played in the classroom on a regular basis. When we were out of line, we were met with disciplinary actions and held back from these others extracurricular activities if our grades were in decline. The following year we had 6 total in class, 5 boys and 1 girl. The educational atmosphere was pretty much the same as the year before, with a female teacher. My grades began to decline a year later in a larger school district, with more students per classroom (20-30 students per classroom). Had my previous classes had 20 students in it, I would not have had the amazing experience I had, and my grades in turn would have not been as good.
        Generally Boys/Men are wired differently then Girls/Women. Girls need an educational setting that is structured and do not need as much supervision as boys. Boys do not need as much structure, but more supervision in their educational setting. I???ve since moved to a large city, and the structure in these city classrooms is a little overbearing in my opinion. (I have no children, but many friends who are educators) However, I do see it necessary being that classroom sizes are large, and in order to maintain a positive learning environment, structure is stressed.

  • Posted By: JC0101 @ 09/10/2008 12:09:16 PM

    Tyre has got this all wrong. The problem is not that too much is asked of kids in school. The problem is that too little is asked of kids in school. I come from Ireland. I started school at the age of 4 and learned to read and write in both English and Irish. I also learned math. Standards and expectations are much higher in Ireland. Six year olds in Ireland do the kind of work that third graders do in the US. Yet, we didn't have problems with boys acting up when I was a child. We didn't have to drug kids to get them to sit still.

    In Ireland, primary school started at 9:30am. I think school starts too early here, so a lot of kids show up tired. We had breaks after every 1.5 hours of instruction. We studied 6 subjects everyday.

    When I talk to young boys here they complain of boredom in school. Of course, they're bored. They are unchallenged. Children are curious and have a natural desire to learn, yet educators think that learning will harm them. They probably only study two subjects everyday. I would have wanted to tear my hair out if I spent the whole day learning nothing but English and Math.

    Get rid of multiple choice and true false tests, which promote memorization rather than real learning. Get rid of standardized tests. Elementary kids should not be taking high stakes tests. Give kids creative writing assignments rather than standard book reports. Teach a variety of subjects: English, Math, History, Geography, Civics, Science, Art and Music at the Elementary level. Variety is the spice of life, after all.

  • Posted By: Partoftheplan @ 09/10/2008 12:08:49 PM

    Welcome to NCLB, communism sounds great on paper but the whole freewill and human nature thing kind of messes it up. NCLB is a program designed to embrass our school systems in 2014 so that school voucher programs can be enacted. Hopefully, our next president will discard the program. All children deserve a good basic education. We have great teachers and schools just let them do their jobs that should be regulated by their states and local governments, not by the federal government or someone in the federal government that has never been in an elementary or high school classroom.

  • Posted By: vplowman @ 09/10/2008 6:50:13 AM

    I agree with starlight100 but there is a small addition that needs to be added. I am a 38 year old male and I was brought up by my grandmother as well as my mother, father was never in the picture. I was raised with a "tough" love and when I was 7-10 there were a couple times I popped off at the mouth around my grandmother (either at her or another one of my elders) and as sooon as she was in arms reach without saying a word "thwap" right across the face. This only took twice for me to realize I was wrong and the punishment way out weighed the want to do it. The times that I did not do as I was supposed, acted up, or through a temper tantrum I was "spanked" with a switch by my ghrandmother or the leather belt from my mother. Again, it only took a few times and I was aware that the punishment was not worth me getting out of line. Today the government, and the states have become so threatening with investigating your life and possibly taking away your children that many parents won't use the same disipline rules that their parents used on them and the children are running wild! So you wonder why they talk back, through a fit, yell at the elders (parents, teachers, people on the street, and any they come across), carry knives, and guns? BEACAUSE there are no punishments and they know they can't be touched because (kids talk, schools tell them) so where is the fear factor?? There is none... Blame the teachers if you like, the schools, and try to through drugs at the problem but continue to watch our juvenile detention centers, jails and prisons over the next few years and you will see them continue to grow at an alarming rate. It is us as the parents who are fault and we are failing our children by not being able to provide correct discipline to "teach" our child to respect us and eachother. The government needs to put the control back in to the parents hands too!!

    • Posted By: kells1983@hotmail.com @ 09/10/2008 12:08:34 PM

      You are correct, vplowman -
      Then again, if the children threaten to "tell" that you disciplined them, you may want to remind them what foster care is really like...A lot of times it's not in an actual "home" (especially with older kids). For many older kids that nobody is able to take in (while everything is processed) will be in a facility, filled with other kids, and it's not always pleasant. Kind of like juvy, in a way. Let them know that they won't be able to take their nice things and precious video games with them when they go - and that they'll be living with strangers, many of whom really need the government check. Maybe they'll change their tune,

      Foster care is for cases where children are being truly ABUSED, or not being taken care of properly, and where anything is better than remaining in the current situation. It should not be used as a tool for conniving children to wield over their parents for using reasonable punishment...

    • Posted By: starlight100 @ 09/10/2008 7:21:10 AM

      You are right vplowman.

      • Posted By: 2old4change @ 09/10/2008 8:14:09 AM

        No doubt. I said the very same thing yesterday. As we have an appointment today with the pediatrician. I feel the real problem started when discipline was taken out of schools. My husband and I and my 10.5 year old son have to go to family counseling, only to have my son tell others that I won't lay a hand on him because he will tell the counselor. I was quick to remind him that she did not live with us. I have a 24 year old daughter and would have never let her talk or act the way my son does toward me. My husband works shift work that changes every week. Soon my son will be bigger than me and has absolutely no respect whatsoever. I feel all of the rights of parents have been removed and we are all suffering the consequences... parents, teachers and kids that have to be medicated to meet the needs of the public school system. I went to private schools and they did not hesitate one bit to pull you out in the hall and let you know right then what you had done wrong. What a huge mistake it was to take consequences away at school and at home.

    • Posted By: Kittoni @ 09/10/2008 7:05:39 AM

      I completely agree with you, vplowman! I was never beaten, and I remember only a few spankings, but they were used so early on in my life that by the time I can remember, I had learned all the respect lessons I needed. I wish I would have spanked my son when he was two and three years old, because now that he is 7 and almost as big as me, I can't hit him for fear of going to jail or child protective services taking my children! He could get mad and "tell" on me, not realizing that its for his own good, and end up in foster care over a smack in the ass for blatant disobediance.

  • Posted By: nita2003 @ 09/10/2008 12:07:50 PM

    I have been teaching elementary school for the last 6 years. In those 6 years it seems that the number of male students on meds has gone up drastically. We as teachers are not allowed to recommend that a student be on meds as we are not doctors. Other avenues of intervention must be explored first. I have never recommended medication to a parent only reported behaviors that were keeping that student from learning.
    During my 6 years of teaching I never gave preferential treatment to one sex over the other. They are my students. My job is to teach them and excite them about learning. Yes, boys can be more energetic, however girls can be too. I always viewed it as "as long as it's not interfering in their learning, hurting others or themselves."
    I am really tired of parents who blame the teachers and the school districts for their child's situation. In some instances I'm sure there is truth to this. However, I have found that most school district and teachers are truly here for the children and have only the child's interest at heart. Most teachers are hardworking individuals who do the best that they can with what they have. Perhaps we need to look at our government and the ridiculous policy of 'No Child Left Behind.' These days it seems like it should be called 'No Child Left Untested & Leaving Lots Behind.'

  • Posted By: prodigion @ 09/10/2008 11:46:18 AM

    The impact of the once rare two wage-earner family dynamic cannot be ignored either. Frankly, I would love to see school hours extended by two - not only to help working families keep their children supervised, but so that extended breaks between classes for active play and socialization are available. Finally, this "teaching to the test" crap has got to stop, as should tenure for grade school teachers. We are disarming our best and brightest teachers, while at the same time, providing a safe haven for those teachers who's abilities or motivations were lost years ago.

    • Posted By: Si18 @ 09/10/2008 12:07:17 PM

      Err...make school longer than your average job? No thanks. Everything else I agree with but extending school two hours is absurd. I hated being in school from 8 to 3; I don't know what I would have done with myself if I was in school from 8-5....I can barely keep my attention in check for 8 hours at work; what do you think a young child would do for 9 hours? What's further separating them from their parents going to do to help the situation? Parents need to simply get home at least an hour or two after their child and school needs to cut down the length of classes (I think classes are about 45min-1hr long now? Make it 30min) to allow lunch and recess breaks. Or simply having classes that stress freedom of the mind and body instead of grades would be enough.

    • Posted By: ssrjacob @ 09/10/2008 11:58:51 AM

      Speak up... speak out! I wish more people would get on board with the concepts that you have addressed.

  • Posted By: Fluidmesh @ 09/10/2008 11:50:30 AM

    Completely Agree. Our 5 year old boy started kindergarten last week. Straight out of the gate the kids take an assessment test to see what their aptitude is (literally as they walk in the door). When we asked the staff what skills the children should be able to demonstrate they said: ???write their name, say the alphabet, recognize the letters in the alphabet, read some simple words, and count up to 100.??? I was surprised because those are the skills I learned when I was in kindergarten 25 years ago. Times have definitely changed. Our son is intelligent and socially well adjusted, but the test and the environment surrounding the test were so overwhelming to him as his first kindergarten experience that he shut down, refusing to take the test. It was a horrible way to kick off his primary school years. What a horrible experience to associate with school and learning. Can???t we let the children be children? They have such a short time to enjoy this part of their lives, and we are so quick to steal it away from them.

    • Posted By: hotrxmom @ 09/10/2008 12:06:27 PM

      Fluidmesh-this is exaclty the way my husband and I feel. All of what they wanted our sone to know, we(my husband and I) LEARNED in kindergarten. We are very frustrated with the school right now because they consider him"behind" because he could not write his alphabet the first day of kindergarten!!

  • Posted By: ycul @ 09/10/2008 12:04:41 PM

    I'm not convinced that young children are wired to be able to sit still for long periods of time. Sure some kids don't mind. But overall kids learn best when they DO, DO, DO! Movement is so critical for young children. Learning through play is essential. We have a problem of obesity because of the lack of activity and yet some teachers are bothered by the active 5 year old. I've had students who do their best learning while standing up. My husband, an attorney, loves to work at his "stand-up" desk. Sitting for long periods of time is not healthy. Perhaps we need to revisit the learning enviornment we have set up for our young students and really make it the best for them. Students learn differently - some kinesthetically, others musically...we need to teach to these learning styles and maybe then our boys will succeed. Medication is not the answer for all. How sad to think that we would resort to that so quickly. Perhaps we need more people reading work by Mel Levine.

  • Posted By: Granny Pants @ 09/10/2008 12:04:20 PM

    This growing trend is not surprising when you measure the level of decreased physical activity and especially unstructured outdoor physical activity between our school-age boys today and 40 ago. Those seemingly simplistic in metholdology, by increasing unstructured, outdoor activities in a safe environment at least 2 more hours a day will prove to balance the physiological and developmental needs of our boys. Try it! It is the safest study to carry out and it will have dramatic effects on stabilizing our boys who are suffering from our cultural shifts that have led them inside to 'be safe'. Boys need at least 4 hours of physical activity a day. Turn off the TV and video games and throw them outside!

  • Posted By: djman @ 09/10/2008 12:04:06 PM

    Interestingly, fifteen to twenty years ago the concern was that boys dominated all the attention in school and girls were not being given equal time in school. Schools were told to make a concerted effort to build girls' self esteem - as it turned out at the expense of attention to boys. It has worked beyond anyone's expectations.

    This attitude has also become pervasive in society. Look at TV shows, especially commercials. Almost universally, women are portrayed as smarter than men, and girls are smarter than boys. How can boys not be affected by this constant bombardment. This is as absurd as a generation ago only showing females in a housekeeping role supporting the males.

  • Posted By: prayingforchanges @ 09/10/2008 12:03:04 PM

    Thank God!!! Someone who doesn't feel that our kids should be medicated, especially our boys!!! The culture of the last 10 years is to take a pill, and if your child is a little more active that the next (probably because they are medicated) than automatically they have ADD or ADHD! What happend to good quality family time after school? Let these kids be kids, they are our future, but we have to stop screwing them up!! In these economic times family is more important than ever! Maybe instead of 10 different after school activites maybe we as parents can just go home and have our kids help us fix a meal, and exchange the happenings of there day! I pray we get this thing together!

  • Posted By: b-reirden @ 09/10/2008 12:02:36 PM

    These articles slay me, because regardless of the position, three things are rarely mentioned as potential culprits: too much television, too many hours of video games and the severe lack of a healthy diet. I'm a father of two sons, a 2 1/2 year old and a 5 month old, and my wife and I forbid TV, video games and insist on a healthy diet; you'd swear we were abusing our sons by the way we are 'looked down upon' and judged by our peers. I would submit excessive TV/Video Games are screwing up the young neural pathways of children and the poor diets are contributing to adrenal spurts and crashes. I just wish more parents would embrace the ideas instead of look down their noses at them. Just some thoughts.

  • Posted By: arclcc @ 09/10/2008 12:02:01 PM

    I am a teacher and mother of 2 young boys. Aware of boys struggling in school became a great concern to me so I decided to homeschool at least through elementary school. Unfortunately we are unintentionally trying to fit boys and girls in the same box and it is not working. I agree that boys and girls have the same intelligence level but boys learn differently. Boys need to be boys. The testosterone levels in boys vs. girls is different thus their behavior is different. It does not mean that it is bad behavior just different. Those of us who are married or in a relationship with the opposite sex know that we are two different creatures so why don't we embrace the differences instead trying to make boys, girls. For the most part boys need to work with their hands including physical activity. In our homeschool setting I find that about every 15- 20 minutes of instruction requires at least 10 minutes of turning my son loose to run wild with his brother. And guess what, after that he is ready to start instruction again. For a teacher it means more work. And I certainly understand the difficulties in that when you have 30 6 year olds to teach.

    If you notice, most primary elementary school teachers are women so it only makes sense that we teach in a way the we understand as women. So the girls do great but we lose the boys. I think there needs to be a raised awareness in teaching methods we use so we can make both boys and girls successful.

    The everyday presence of a stronge male role model is essential. Shutting off the video games and tv is essential. Embrace our boys and their energy and use it as strength not a weakness.

  • Posted By: Donnabug76 @ 09/10/2008 12:02:01 PM

    I can not belive that recess has been almost eliminated all together! What do the schools expect a 5 or 6 year old boy to do all day? Sit and be quiet? Hardly! I have a kindergartener whom within the first week was sent home with notes for bad behaviour because he wouldn't sit down in "circle time", and when I went to visit the school about it, I was told there was only 3 days of P.E. and one recess break a day! I was surprised! He is the third child I have, and niether of my other two children had any such issues at school. He is well behaved at home and I have never had any problems with him keeping his hands to himself or harming other children. So when this was suddenly a "problem" for him at school, I realized it was the lack of physical play! Schools today should not automatically assume its some form of mental or emotional issue, and they should realize that thes kids need more play time, less structure, and a slow introduction to academics!

  • Posted By: pushing back @ 09/10/2008 12:01:26 PM

    I think you nailed it right on the head! My son has had a hell of a time in school. If there is a percieved problem the aswer was always give more work. My son would just shut down. I finally went after these so called teachers asking them if they didn't do something well and didn't like it, would they enjoy beying forced to do it more? I made them give less work so he could gain a feeling of accomplishment and confidence. I also gave him control of when to do work with this one rule, Git-r-done! With these changes he started to flurish. He had time to be a student and a kid in the eyes of the most important person, HIM!

  • Posted By: hellen73 @ 09/10/2008 12:00:40 PM

    I believe most of the problems with behavior that we are seeing from all children is a lack of discipline. I see rude children everywhere that have no concept of what it means to behave in a situation that requires good behavior. My children are not perfect and they get in trouble constantly, but they know when we go out to eat they will not be allowed to run around, scream and make eating a terrible experience for others. When we go to the store they know they are expected to stay by me and are not allowed to run and hide, touch every toy they see and they darn sure are not allowed to stand in the toy isle playing with and distroying the toys. In my opinion we have a generation (s) of weak parents who think treatening time out is going to make a child behave. Parents have to discipline by taking away important items, restricting activites and on occassion if necessary they need to use what most of us grew up with - a swift swat on our behinds. We are raising a bunch of rude, obnoxious kids who others (they may not say it to your face) can't stand to even be around.

  • Posted By: egeauxgrl @ 09/10/2008 12:00:10 PM

    The study is a joke. I think its easier for most parents to simply medicate thier children than look in the mirror and see that thier lack of parenting is the problem. Both my children are active ( they wear the heck out of me) but that is what they are supposed to do. Parents do your kids a favor - quit calling the pediatrician - there is NOTHING wrong with your child- the problem is you. Turn of the computer, turn off the TV, turn off your cell phone, ipods ......Go spend real time with your child - not just I'm standing next to them multi tasking kind of time. Show interest in them, in thier school work in their lives and trust me they will still be active and unable to keep still but you will see a difference.

  • Posted By: LisaLuvsChrist @ 09/10/2008 11:59:47 AM

    Society is deteriorating because we have taken God out of the equation...remember the pledge of allegiance we use to recite ever morning in the classroom...'One Nation UNder GOD', remember our old currency which stated 'In God we Trust'...yeah I miss them as well.

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