What Will the Collider Tell Us?

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  • Posted By: mk0106 @ 09/09/2008 7:04:58 PM

    I'm not a physicist but I do understand enough about science to realize there are no absolutes. But from a mere human perspective, this whole thing makes me very nervous. I feel like an unwilling guinea pig in an experiment that I am some how inadvertantly involved. It looks like a situation ripe for sabatoge with devasting consequences. Because there are so many scientists involved makes it all the more likely that cooperation can/will go awry. The scientific and academic knowledge of the individuals involved with this experiment is probably unquestionable but does this provide enough confidence that their knowledge coincides with a high level of commen sense?..not exactly, at least not for all involved. Does it provide a high level of confidence that their eagerness to prove scientific theory won't be done at the expense of safety?...No! not with that many individuals involved. I am for the advancement for science but this experiment produces a gut feeling that is not good. I personally would perfer it was scaled down or halted altogether. I vote no on this one.

    • Posted By: Gzus666 @ 09/09/2008 7:21:13 PM

      They already scaled it down there champ, it is in Illinois called the Fermilab Collider. It is ignorance like this that caused them to move it to France/Switzerland because of our complete lacking in sciences. Your fears are unfounded, and they are just doing this on a larger scale.

  • Posted By: cjny84 @ 09/09/2008 5:14:41 PM

    I have two comments.
    1.. To yammer'n: Interactions on these energy scales and higher occur in the upper atmosphere continuously not to mention the fact that there entire point of the experiment is to recreate the conditions at the time of the Big Bang. If these conditions were not conducive to live then we wouldn't be here and so we shouldn't fear them.

    2. To Info4U
    Please don't pass off "Creation, the Bible and the Testimony of Jesus (along with witnesses)" as evidence for God. None of those things constitute proof because they cannont be tested. If you choose to believe in God, that is your own choice but it's just that, a leap of faith not based on any proof.

    • Posted By: Info4U @ 09/09/2008 6:22:52 PM

      Be careful not to use "proof" to define "evidence". These things can be ??? and are ??? tested all the time. Even what we know as absolute proof now, can change when contrary evidence is revealed and subsequently tested. ...and what tests are to be performed? Without having all knowledge in everything, how can we know enough to test the right way - but with all knowledge, no testing would be necessary in the first place (we would already know), a catch 22.

      Everything takes a leap of faith. You believe in the test, in the expectation of a result, and in the result itself - or perhaps in the testimony by someone who witnessed the test, result, etc. I do too - since that is within my ability to understand.

      I also know that the more we learn, the more we understand that we know very little.

      • Posted By: Gzus666 @ 09/09/2008 7:18:02 PM

        If the test is done properly, it will reproduce the same results time and time again, there by proving something. The fault lies when people stray from the scientific method, and a lack of understanding from everyone else leads them to go along with it. For instance when the law "matter can neither be created or destroyed" was disproved, it was clear that the mistake was in saying that something CANNOT be done, without proof. In turn, through the proper use of the scientific method, they proved it can be destroyed, effectively changing the law. You question everything with back handed comments, laced with religious BS in an effort to try to push your beliefs on others, and confuse the masses. Religion was made as a way to cope with death, and it turned into a way to control people and get money for the many sociopaths we let control things. While I am OK the idea of religion, it helps people cope, who am I to say what someone should use to do this? But it is when people decide that is truth, without any proof short of a silly book written 100 or so years after the supposed life of the man it is about. My other problem is making decisions based off this book, which again, is not proven, and no more believable than the Greek gods or the Annunaki. It is the arrogance that somehow your god is the only correct god, and everyone else is wrong, without proof. This is self indulgent, self righteous, egotistical, and purely narcissistic with undertones of delusions of grandeur. What should be regarded as a psychosis is looked highly upon by many. If someone comes up to you on the street ant tells you about a magic man that floats in the sky, created everything, and will judge you, you would think him mad, and commence to tell him about Jesus I'm sure.

  • Posted By: justamonkey @ 09/09/2008 6:26:08 PM

    if the pope was the leader of the worlds largest day care company we would have shut down the company for the world wide molestation cover up (how much did they pay out in HUSH money?!?! and where was god for those little boys when they needed him most?) 155,000 people will die today (half are children in africa) where is god for that one? does god really care about your promotion if 155,000 are going to die today? do you know how many doctors, scientists, visionaries and great minds have been murdered in the name of GOD? (we must protect the faith! thats scary) thank gosh that the power is out of their hands now or the 10,000 plus scientists who worked on this project would all be lined up at the guillotin.
    bring it on followers of jesus..mohamed...krishna..budda ( you guys cant even agree whos the chosen one!)

  • Posted By: justamonkey @ 09/09/2008 6:14:46 PM

    do you have any idea how many great minds, thinkers and pioneers of science over the decades have been killed in the name of god? its very sad. where was god when the catholic priest 's were molesting all those little boys? if the pope was the ceo of a day care company he would have been thrown in jail and the company would have been shut down for the cover up (they never tell you how much they paid out in HUSH money do they?!). where is god when 155,000 people die EACH DAY (mostly children in africa)? hmm. i could go on for hours but at the end of the day it truly proves there is no GOD and that people who believe cause more ignorance, pain, death and suffering then even the devil could have hoped for. i am so happy that the 'nut jobs' out there don't have the power they once had or the 10,000 + scientist 's who worked on this project would all be lined up at the guillotin for execution. the power now is in the hands of intellegent, rational thinking people. thank gosh

  • Posted By: DrBradD @ 09/09/2008 5:24:28 PM

    Man I'm sick of all the ignorant comments here. The truth is, we really DON'T KNOW what the results of the machine will be. First off, theres a high probability that black holes can be created. The stupid argument that the scientists use, "we'll be fine because cosmic rays hit Earth all the time and we're fine" is complete and utter bulls***. Cosmic rays from outer space hit STATIONARY objects on Earth, NOT OBJECTS ALSO MOVING AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT! Particles that are BOTH going the speed of light and collide does NOT happen naturally. Thats a big problem right there. Second, we're relying on black holes to disappear because of a THEORY. A THEORY!!! Thats all 'Hawking Radiation' is...an unproven theory. If he's wrong, we're all dead.

    Maybe the world wont end tomorrow, but as they increase to higher energies throughout the year I can almost guarantee something will go wrong. Cherish your last remaining moments with your loved ones and Earth....wont be around for long

    • Posted By: Gzus666 @ 09/09/2008 5:30:49 PM

      Yea, what does this panel of thousands of scientists from all over the world know? DrBradD is here to help you, with his one man show! The combined thinking ability of the scientific community makes anything you do, think, say or are look like a grain of sand in the Milky Way galaxy. Theories are not just hair brained crazy things they think up, they have to have basis. Seriously, where did you people go to school? Ignorance University? Clearly we should trust crackpots, not great minds like Hawking. Bravo my friend, bravo for a fine performance and the spread of fear and hatred for science. I'm sure there are underlying religious motives, but you can't point them out, cause then it just discounts you as another crazy religious nut. So, good sir, please let us know how you have attributed even a spec in comparison to the fine folks of this project.

      • Posted By: DrBradD @ 09/09/2008 5:38:43 PM

        Actually, if I was a religious nut as you say, I could take solace in the fact that I have some kind of afterlife to look forward to. That is not the case. Once this thing destroys the world, we, humanity, cease to exist.

        And for your information, many scientists agree that they don't know what will come out of this. They even agree that theres a chance that it could destroy the planet. Don't believe me? This quote says it all.....

        "A particle physics expert interviewed earlier this week by the PWB science intern said that nobody involved actually believes they???ll destroy the world, saying ??? ... it (world destruction) is a remote possibility I suppose, who knows, maybe," adding that ??? ... wow, that would really suck, wouldn???t it????"

        • Posted By: cjny84 @ 09/09/2008 5:55:48 PM

          I agree, we don't know what will happen and black holes may be created but you didn't actually address either of the points I made but did manage to insult me and everybody else who has responded. I must admit I didn't make my arguments very clear. First off, it doesn't matter that this is a pair of particles travelling at near the speed of light, the only thing that matters is the center of mass energy of the collision and CM energies of that level happen in our atmosphere and all across the universe. They also happened all the time in th e period just after the Big Bang and they didn't suck up the universe then, when it was many times more dense than the Earth is now, what makes you believe that it won't just pass right through the Earth? It will probably only interact through the gravitational force which as I'm sure you know is the weakest force by many orders of magnitude.

          Of course these theories are based off of sound physics and mathematics not random ideas. Hawking radiation is the solution to whether black holes obey the Laws of Thermodynamics, if they do, which they should as everything else in the universe does, then they must radiate. These and others are sound theoretical arguments so please do not pretend to understand physics better than experts because you like read articles out of Scientific American.

        • Posted By: Gzus666 @ 09/09/2008 5:45:20 PM

          I didn't say you are a religious nut, I said you most likely have underlying religious motives, and people would regard you as a religious nut. Reading comprehension, it isn't hard there champ.

          I have seen quotes from 3 scientists against the experiment, none of which were physicists. I believe 2 were engineers and one was a chemist. But, right, lets believe them over thousands of quantum physicists.

          As for the final part, anything is possible, so you cannot discount it completely. It is possibly I will morph into a planet, but not probable. Remember, they would have something to lose if the world ended as well, they all have people they love as well, and research would be lost. They wouldn't do this if there was more than an infinitely small chance something could go wrong. Infinitely small black holes will die out before they do anything, get over it.

  • Posted By: intriguedAndCurious @ 09/09/2008 5:52:00 PM

    You have no doubt that God exists? Wow. You must be smart. I believe in the cosmic *** theory of Robert Anton Wilson's. Without a doubt.

  • Posted By: jaredjt @ 09/09/2008 5:14:12 PM

    I don't think there is any proof that a god exist or does not exist. who ever says that as an absolute fact puts to much faith behind something that isn't that important. in reality, it does not really matter that any higher being exist. we all live, then we die. it's a cycle. personally I have no belief in a god, but if their is one, whoopee.

  • Posted By: congressive @ 09/09/2008 4:32:03 PM

    Describe "God".

    • Posted By: mayboy @ 09/09/2008 4:51:41 PM

      Creator , and science is his foot stool

    • Posted By: Gzus666 @ 09/09/2008 4:44:14 PM

      Fake, magic "man" who lives in the sky where we can see him (hiding behind clouds maybe?) who waited billions of years to make human life, then waited millions of years after that to let them know the guidelines and history to live by. Of course, the many other things, like having to rest, cause the all powerful get sleepy. It is a children's story.

  • Posted By: yammer'n @ 09/09/2008 4:30:22 PM

    So when before this experiment has a super high energy particle met a particle at the earth and the immediate result emerged with sub-orbital momentum? Never. I will be very releaved if any scientist can explain how this experiment isn't the first time in the earth's billion year history that such high energy collisions have occured with the momentum canceling, leaving the product orbiting within the earth.

  • Posted By: yammer'n @ 09/09/2008 4:29:47 PM

    So when before this experiment has a super high energy particle met a particle at the earth and the immediate result emerged with sub-orbital momentum? Never. I will be very releaved if any scientist can explain how this experiment isn't the first time in the earth's billion year history that such high energy collisions have occured with the momentum canceling, leaving the product orbiting within the earth.

  • Posted By: Geminate @ 09/09/2008 4:17:36 PM

    "he's just simple" My IQ is 184 and I am not simple, but I tell you without a doubt that God does exist. Nothing of any real value will come from the data of the LHC.

  • Posted By: Geminate @ 09/09/2008 4:12:16 PM

    "he's just simple" My IQ is 184 and I am not simple, but I tell you without a doubt that God does exist. Nothing of any real value will come from the data of the LHC.

  • Posted By: Geminate @ 09/09/2008 4:12:10 PM

    "he's just simple" My IQ is 184 and I am not simple, but I tell you without a doubt that God does exist. Nothing of any real value will come from the data of the LHC.

  • Posted By: Alpha Decay @ 09/09/2008 3:43:37 PM

    I hope it disproves God! That would make all the religious people STFU. AND perhaps instead of hoarding money for apocolypses and such, the churches would I dunno.... BUILD A BIGGER ONE! BWAHA

  • Posted By: Alpha Decay @ 09/09/2008 3:42:23 PM

    Hey, lease Starwalker alone. Maybe god will pop out and give us the biggest "i told you so" ever!... Nah, he's just simple. Can I consider this the first "God Gun" if it can make "mini black holes" It could disprove god right? I pray to the FSM it does!

  • Posted By: Gzus666 @ 09/09/2008 3:24:21 PM

    Right, screw science, god made it, why bother? Lets go back to living in huts with our magic people in the sky, all so we don't spend money on science. Zues anyone? Which god was the god of sub-atomic particle collisions?

    • Posted By: Alpha_to_omega @ 09/09/2008 3:33:39 PM

      Do not forget that we still have people that believe the earth is flat and that the sun orbits the earth. Stupidity knows no bounds.

  • Posted By: Gzus666 @ 09/09/2008 3:24:08 PM

    Right, screw science, god made it, why bother? Lets go back to living in huts with our magic people in the sky, all so we don't spend money on science. Zues anyone? Which god was the god of sub-atomic particle collisions?

  • Posted By: starwalker @ 09/09/2008 3:17:12 PM

    it will show the awesome power of God creator and what He created and what we are trying to understand.
    it is amazing the money spent trying to find answers that are already there.

  • Posted By: triplezero @ 09/09/2008 2:39:37 PM

    sorry, my browser went nuts there.

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