In Search of Rational Voters

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  • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/11/2008 1:44:54 AM

    To LoriW: I suggest you do alittle homework before accusing B. Obama of Infanticide: here's an excerpt from a news article referring to Deal Hudson, who sits on John McCain's 80-person advisory board for Catholic issues. (there's more to read but won't fit here):

    Catholic voters should steel themselves to hear Barack Obama accused of "infanticide" this fall. Support for that heinous crime is the latest charge being cooked up against a Democratic nominee by the man who helped to paint John Kerry as unworthy of the communion wafer back in 2004......

    One significant problem with Hudson's logic is that it requires comparing apples to oranges. The Illinois and federal bills differed not only in language, but regulatory impact. Critically, the Illinois version of the bill that Obama opposed was also bundled with other proposals that would have put doctors at risk of prosecution, which led the Illinois State Medical Society to oppose the measure along with Obama. The state bill also carried greater influence in terms of enforcement, since states had been granted greater leeway in regulating abortion practices ever since the U.S. Supreme Court's 1992 ruling in the case of Planned Parenthood v. Casey.

    Illinois State Representative Rosemary Mulligan sighed when the Huffington Post told her about the "infanticide" claim currently being leveled at Obama. As a pro-choice Republican who is supporting John McCain for president but also worked with Obama back in 2001, she described the first Illinois version of the Born Alive legislation as "a very onerous bill," adding that "I think that the hardcore, hard right conservative Catholics overreach on this one."

  • Posted By: thesmiyhmeister @ 09/11/2008 1:36:14 AM

    I think a part of the problem is , and I truly mean no disrespect, I have been a teacher and I'm only stating a fact, people don't read. get informed, examine both sides of the issues, or use their discernment and critical thinking skills.
    There is no way in heaven anyone could intelligently (genuinely) say. Sara Palin is ready to be commander in chief. And yet you hear that statement (disingenuously) enough times and the uninformed begin to believe it and repeat it and take it to the polls and pull levers because of it.
    I am a "Walmart Mom", but I hate to be ignorant. Still, in fairness to other "Walmart Moms" they are too busy raising families, TRYING to balance the checkbook, working, trying to keep their marriages alive, volunteering at school, and an endless host of other duties that they are apathetic regarding "punditry and prognostication". In other words, political activism is not high on the "to do" list unless one is willing, to stay up until midnight researching, investigating, sorting, and judiciously disposing of information.
    While it is important, real world obligations take priority,
    I was tempted to feel superior, until I realized this is the first election I've done more than vote.
    AND by the way, I agree with the writer, with the electoral college being the decisive instrument for determining the presidential election, some FEEL their vote doesn't 'count' anyway. The media discarded my vote (in Arizona) months ago. That could be a motivation buster too.

  • Posted By: I_M_O @ 09/11/2008 12:54:56 AM

    Here???s a great reason to VOTE OBAMA - - OBAMA IS HONEST!

    ________

    I just saw Larry King Live! 9/10/08

    The GOP celebrity subversive ???mini-army??? is on the move! (wink)

    Chuck went on Larry King declaring he was an Independent and after confronting big bad Ariana Huffington for all of under 1minute, he ???ACCIDENTLY??? revealed himself to be a McSame supporter. (LOL, I rolled on the floor and wiped my tears.)

    Some people will do anything to anything to sell their products.

    DOESN???T THE MARTIAL ARTS??? CODE REQUIRE YOU TO BE TRUTHFUL AND HONORABLE?
    ???OH SENSEI ??? SOME ONE HERE NEEDS REMEDIAL HELP!???


    WOW! I DIDN???T KNOW CHUCK NORRIS WAS SUCH A SNEAKY GUY!

    • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/11/2008 1:08:07 AM

      I watched Larry King too. It didn't surprise me that he would come off as somewhat chauvenistic (sp?). It wasn't long till he spilled the beans looking a bit sheepish.

  • Posted By: whala @ 09/10/2008 6:02:10 PM

    American politics are very simple:

    Democrats represent government help programs, and therefore usually get elected when the economy is going through a slow cycle, when people are interested in help from the government.

    Republicans represent freedom from government, and usually get elected any time the economy is NOT going through a slow cycle, because people ultimately want the government to leave them alone.

    The reality is that free market societies are cyclical by nature, and ours will recover no matter who wins this election. The question is whether the American public can see past the short term situation, and choose the best candidate for the long term. I personally believe that Obama will provide better short term relief for Americans, but McCain will provide a better long term outlook for American prosperity. With our current debt out of control (now even worse with the Freddie/Fannie bail out) it won't be easy for anyone in that chair.

    • Posted By: paul_in_plano_tx @ 09/11/2008 12:53:18 AM

      And small government means what? Record deficits? 12+ billion a month fand several trillion long-term for a phony war? Abuse of power? Illegal spying? Outright lies to support corrupt policies? Lack of respect for the law?

      Oh, I see, you think that maybe these things were actually bad, but in no way is the Republican party responsible - after all it was the Bush administration, not the Republican party that did all these things, right? I guess blocking any and all attempts to hold the administration accountable doesn't count then does it.

    • Posted By: bear8675 @ 09/10/2008 6:31:42 PM

      Why is it big goverment when I tell you what to do with your money but its small government when you tell me what to do with my body? (And who to love, what to read, when to think,. and who to talk to on the phone, oh yeah, and when to take off my shoes...)

  • Posted By: Cornhusker @ 09/10/2008 11:26:02 PM

    I am right there with Phoenix, Arizona. As a Mom who has always worked full-time, I too understand real life. Real life is not Sarah Palin. I have always worked 40-50 hours a week in a stressful job and with my husband have managed to raise two active kids. It is hard work and there are only so many hours in a day. So, knowing this, I know without a doubt that Sarah Palin is a fraud. She is no hockey mom. While this may not be particularly relevant as a political issue, it is relevant that the image she is attempting to portray is a blatant lie. So, it is truly insulting to me that John McCain actually believes that real working women will fall for this fraud. I have faith that there are countless other women who feel the same. None of us "relate" to Sarah Palin.

    The way to bring about needed change in this country is not through lies and smoke screens. If the only way John McCain can win this election is by picking this joke of a female as a running mate, he is in no way qualified to be the next President of the United States.

    • Posted By: Shanabellin @ 09/11/2008 12:27:52 AM

      My worst nightmare may become a reality....that my beloved country will once again be run by fools and charlatans - what is wrong with you people? You've already voted in (twice) "quick on the draw " politicians who promised you Compassionate Conservatism and were willing to let the country go to hell in a basket to favour foul companies like Haliburton and friends. Now, the image of "Pistol Packin Palin" has you screaming for joy??? I hope you never have to face the prospect of her being awakened at 3AM, her finger on the button, her pistols on her hips.

    • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/10/2008 11:43:53 PM

      I knew you were out there! Let's hear from some more "real women"!

  • Posted By: jimmiwhistle @ 09/11/2008 12:26:30 AM

    Bush lied about McCain in the 2000 primary and got the nomination. Bush lied about Gore and Kerry and got elected twice. Lying works with the American people. Is it any wonder that the Bush administration felt comfortable as they lied us into war and a shredding of the Constitution? Is it any wonder, that McCain, not having a platform to stand on, feels comfortable riding a cloud of lies in his campaign to become President. The people need to take up Obama's chant..."ENOUGH"

  • Posted By: Liv54 @ 09/11/2008 12:16:52 AM

    I remember in 2000 how much I wanted to vote for McCain. Looking at him today he is a shell of his former self and has sold his soul to be president. Gone is the integrity I admired. Gone is any claim to new ideas. I am worried about the direction of this nation and we can't afford more of the same. We also can't afford to elect an old man who could die at leave a totally unqualified person in charge.

    Palin advocates can claim she is as experienced as Obama but that is fiction. Obama has worked as an organizer in a city with a population larger than Alaska. He is a constitutional scholar. He has worked in state government as well as the senate and most of all Obama had ideas that won a primary against a formidable opponent. There is no comparison between this old McCain who has lost his way and this young man who has qualities to be a leader.

  • Posted By: Shanabellin @ 09/11/2008 12:10:29 AM

    So this is my question: Did you vote for Bush/Cheney in 2000? - 2004? if you've answered yes, I beg of you, look back and remember tthat you pulled the lever that resulted in the catastrophe of the past eight years. My fellow Americans, you are good, strong people,; please do not allow yourself to believe the crude manipulations of devious marketerss to sell you repackaged false promises.

  • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/10/2008 4:45:52 PM

    Talk about more of the same... can Palin and McCain say even 1 thing that's new? Really, aren't you
    all getting a bit tired of hearing about the bridge to nowhere and all the same ol' BS they repeat day after day after day after day?

    She is so darned protected by the Republicans. Since when is a politician so protect and unreachable?
    McCain's campaign became so transparent when he chose SP for VP. Anyone who actually listens to the
    words coming out of their mouths see's through McCain's reason for choosing her. So far I haven't heard anything that convinces me to think any different. Look at how the Republican analysts do not answer a Sarah Palin question without getting defensive, if they will even answer the question at all. They play the double standard game when it comes to Sarah Palin. And now, from what I've seen, it appears she is running for president and John McCain is in the background. (wondering how thrilled he is with that) She says nothing we haven't heard over and over since she came out like a viper at the GOP convention. I'd like to know what is the hype about this woman? I, being a woman, don't care who is running as long as she/he can actually fulfill her duties to this country and the world. How on earth can people say Sarah Palin is capable of this role?

    I'm trying to keep an open mind but McCain/Palin are making it difficult to buy their weak strategy. Do we really want this 'celebrity', who is taking a Politics for Dummies crash course, in charge? I'm losing faith in my fellow Americans that they are falling for the lack substance with this ticket. AND guys... what about you? I hope you don't vote for the Republican ticket because Sarah Palin is a 'hottie'. I agree with you, she's an attractive woman, she's tough yet feminine. Guys like that, but as I'm sure you know, the packaging isn't everything. And fellow women... look at the issues not the gender, p-l-e-a-s-e!

    A final note, I have great respect for our military and for John McCain's horrific experience as a POW, but wasn't he just laughing (on John McCain Revealed) about he didn't read 'the manual' on how to eject from the plane he flew in Viet Nam when he became a POW? Hey, just food for thought... Personally, I don't want a 'Maverick' running my country. To me it's not a complentary trait. (yet another highly overused word)

    To both parties, stop the attacks and get down to business!

    • Posted By: vmac @ 09/10/2008 5:58:51 PM

      Enter I'm glad someone else heard about him not reading the manual--he's his own worst enemy and now wants to be ours. I HOPE AMERICA WILL WAKE UP! can you imagine four more years of the last eight? with possibly Palin at the helm? Mexico better look out, Americans will be fleeing to Mexico soon.

      • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/11/2008 12:01:12 AM

        I'm glad to hear from you! Wouldn't that be a turn around if we fled America for Mexico?

  • Posted By: jordanadah @ 09/10/2008 11:42:55 PM

    Here, here! Any woman would vote for little annie oakly of the Yucan just because she is female, is proving the sterotypical pictutures of all women, and I am ashamed, and embarressed.Maybe women do have a problem with logic and reason. after all they;ll believe anything a guy tells them, such as; he loves them, he's going to leave his wife and kids for them that he really isn't interested 9n sex so come on over, that he's had a vacetomy, that he is not married, and now they'll believe this woman just because she's female. believe me she will do nothing for you.

    • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/10/2008 11:50:05 PM

      They like the way she looks. My husband does too, but he doesn't think she's qualified and says the name pitbull is appropriate. I thinks she very attractive, but she's not the average person we relate to. Let's see what the guys think of her in a year if M/P win. Hope we won't have to say, told you so.

  • Posted By: bdhotwheel @ 09/10/2008 4:34:12 PM

    Posted By: sisterkate @ 09/10/2008 4:28:31 PM
    Comment: SueZQ get it straight. Obama is only going to raise taxes on those earning over $600,000/ year. Anyone earning under this will get more of a break under Obama's policy than they will under McCain. So if you're one of the elite few than you should support McCain; however, if you're like majority of America you should be voting for Obama to keep dollars in your own pocket. Get the facts straight if you have a brain.....go to www.taxpolicycenter.org and read the facts. Obama/Biden is the only smart ticket for the economy. Even for corporate America. If the average American isn't earning enough, than there's nothing for us to spend and businesses shut down. How much more can we endure?


    If he does that, most of these business owners will either close up shop and take their business to a more "tax friendly" country (so goes the jobs for that company), they will not invest into the American economy because Robin Hood is stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, and when it comes time for workers to ask for a raise, the owner will turn around and say "Obama has your raise with the taxes he just took from me." So you can't have it that way because it does not make sense. A lot of his plans do not make sense just like his change rhetoric!

    • Posted By: Timotheus_DC @ 09/10/2008 4:46:27 PM

      If you had half a brain you would know that Obama puts the number at 250K and not the 600K you say. It's real basic folks. If Bush's tax cuts are reversed, that alone will raise taxes on every taxpayer regardless of amount. Try to sell your home under Obama and instead of capital gain, you will pay income taxes on profit, that will really inprove the mortgage/ real estate mess, don't you think??????

      • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/10/2008 11:25:57 PM

        Please reference a reliable source (not Republican) that supports your statement so I can educate myself on your statement..

  • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 09/10/2008 4:35:01 PM

    Rational voters??/ Not in this country?? just read comments and see. maybe 10% of Americans are good. insted of the way it was in the 60s when only 1% of Americans were bad! Men should love her, she will make your income 15% more than any woman doing the same job, as a man he should be happy, women are set back into the 40s under Palin, and you don't want more Gov keep trying!!! Then SHE will tell MEN how to treat our bodies, as it's there buisn,if they win! AsMcCain re-defines Patriotism for Veterans benifits, so we lose AGAIN!!!

    • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/10/2008 11:22:48 PM

      It's scary, isn't it? Seems like we're going backwards. Boy, will we be in for a nasty treat if M/P win this election.

  • Posted By: jennucat1 @ 09/10/2008 5:21:59 PM

    The questions about that Republicans have that Democrats don't - It comes down to approach - Most democrats - especially the loud "entertainment industry ones" have the attitude that they are right and you are stupid if you don't agree with them and follow them over the cliff. They want you to have an opionion as long as it agrees and suports them. Everyone that disagrees is a red-neck, bigoted, stupid, ignorant fool. Most republicans just do their thing.

    • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/10/2008 5:27:37 PM

      That may be true to some extent, but exactly "what thing" to republicans do that helps the citizens of America? So far the consensus on the Republican approach hasn't been very favorable. Just look at the Bush/Cheney administration. Are YOU proud of it?

      • Posted By: whala @ 09/10/2008 5:52:12 PM

        I am Republican, and am NOT proud of the Bush/Cheney admin. I am also not so foolish to believe that a McCain/Palin admin would be anything like the current admin. McCain has been one of Bush's harshest critics on out of control spending, how the Iraq situation was handled, and his extremely partisan appointment of his cabinet, etc. I don't believe for a moment that you can label the entire Republican party with all of the poor qualities of the current administration any more than I believe it would be fair to label the Democratic party with all of the poor qualities of the Carter admin.

        The problem with politics today is that partisanship has become more important than representing the people of America. That is what is appealing about Palin--She truly does represent the people of America. How often have we dreamed of having a REAL American in the white house who understands real life and real American issues? That's what she brings more so than anyone else in the race.

        • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/10/2008 11:09:11 PM

          You ask: "How often have we dreamed of having a REAL American in the white house who understands real life and real American issues? That's what she brings more so than anyone else in the race."

          Hey I'm a woman with a husband and 4 kids, been a soccer mom for years, I work, etc. and I too understand REAL LIFE. I have real American issues just like millions of women and families. But I do Not relate to Sarah Palin. I want the most capable person in the White House no matter what party they belong to or what color or sex they are. Please, you think the majority of women 'relate' to Sarah Palin? Sorry, but from blogs I've read in several different forums I don't find that a lot of women relate to her. They may on an issue or 2 but that's not substantial support.

          We honestly don't know what she stands for in any kind of deapth yet, because she has not stopped reading speaches written by someone else. She has defined anything that would tell me she's up what it takes to be a Vice President. IF McCain had picked someone that didn't look like Mrs. Palin, McCain's campaign would be suffering and everyone knows it. Just look what happend today when Sarah Palin left for Alaska. John was on his own and he couldn't get the groups full attention. He finally just stopped his shpeel. I felt bad for him. I think he chose her for the wrong reasons, and no one can tell me this was country first. If Sarah has any political meat she'll make it through the debates with some political knowledge. Other wise she will have to go back to Alaska and do some huntin' to clear her brain from the crash course in politics that she's taking right now. After all, she hasn't answered a single question as of yet on her own.

          You tell me she's qualified? The proof is in the pudding as they say! I have been and still am very open to hearing both sides even though in my heart of hearts I think McCain/Palen are wrong for our country. I am also not saying everything about B. Obama is perfect but I think he has greater potential to work with our issues in a professional and intelligent way. So good luck and may the best man win :)

  • Posted By: Flash Drive @ 09/10/2008 11:03:55 PM

    This election is going to be decided by Independents, and undicided Democrats and Republicans. These voters are not blindly supporting either party , they are more 'open minded' and are looking to see which Candidate/Party is more capable of implementing plans/programs that will benifit the country.
    As the election nears the campaigns are going to get more dirty, and there may be a 'back lash' since this group of voters are not energised by smear and slander. To them all that matters are the issues.

  • Posted By: Ezana @ 09/10/2008 10:36:25 PM

    Reagan was trying to trim the fat. It's been trimmed republicans now are ready to cut out organs and give every public institution over to irresponsible money grubbers in exchange for kickbacks/political favors! A public institution can NOT be for profit without eventually suffering in quality than dying! Tax money is not the next new market! Corporate welfare is the new problem, people. The deregulation is now damaging! the mortgage crisis is a perfect example.

  • Posted By: bammer @ 09/10/2008 10:09:17 PM

    REAGAN WAS THE MASTER OF MARKETING WITH A SIMPLE MESSAGE- "LESS GOVERNMENT, STRONG DEFENSE"

    I LEARNED A LONG TIME AGO SOMETHING ABOUT SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY IN ADVERTISING A MESSAGE.

    IF YOU HAVE A WEAK, WRONG, OR CONFUSING PRODUCT OR MESSAGE, THE MORE MONEY YOU SPEND, THE WORSE YOUR IMAGE GETS.


    OBAMA TALKED OF CHANGE, SLAMMED EVERYTHING IN SIGHT AS BEING WRONG/MORE OF THE SAME, BUT IS TOO LATE WITH SOLUTIONS/SPECIFICS THAT ARE:
    1) UNIQUE,
    2) RELEVANT,
    3) BELIEVABLE, AND
    4) MOTIVATING TO A SURPRISINGLY, RATIONAL ELECTORATE.

    • Posted By: Ezana @ 09/10/2008 10:35:10 PM

      Reagan was trying to trim the fat. It's been trimmed republicans now are ready to cut out organs and give every public institution over to irresponsible money grubbers in exchange for kickbacks/political favors! A public institution can NOT be for profit without eventually suffering in quality than dying! Tax money is not the next new market! Corporate welfare is the new problem, people. The deregulation is now damaging! the mortgage crisis is a perfect example.

  • Posted By: usersuz1 @ 09/10/2008 6:06:06 PM

    When people are content to accept as fact what they hear from talk show hosts, shock jocks and preachers, none of whom is required to have an education or to research what they spout, we have declined to the point of making decisions based on emotions, not unlike road-ragers. This is the situation that most threatens our country, when somebody like George Bush is placed in a second term of office who did not deserve or win the first. Thevoters seem to have an atention span of TV commercials,. Ignorance is expensive, ignorance is dangerous.

    • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/10/2008 10:33:20 PM

      You are right. This system needs a serious revamping. Maybe the candidates should be fined when they don't stick to educating us about their plans!

  • Posted By: Gooroo @ 09/10/2008 8:31:01 PM

    The present election tells us much about how we managed to elect one of the worst presidents in our history, and then re-elect him. Bush was often characterized as ???someone you would like to have a beer with.??? He was carefully packaged by Karl Rove to connect with many of the very people that the Republican Party has little interest in; ordinary people at the lower end of the economic scale. Even the evangelicals, who saw Bush as their man, were ridiculed in Bush???s private discussions with his staff.

    Yet once again we are witnessing this elevation of image over substance in both campaigns. It has been said that the John McCain of 2000 would not vote for the John McCain of 2008. And Sarah Palin, who has been packaged as experienced, an antagonist of big spending, a foe of earmarks and ???one of us??? is none of these. She hired a city administrator to run her tiny town, left that city with its first ever indebtedness and lobbied for and received more pork barrel allocations per capita as governor than any other state in the United States. Barack Obama, for his part, has dwelt far too much on rhetoric and not enough on substantive comparison. Many of his and Hillary Clinton???s supporters have allowed themselves to focus on personality rather than commonality.

    This election so far is once again about emotions rather than issues. One set of emotions relates to excitement about an appeal to our aspirations and hopes. The other emotions relate to identity and connection with kindred spirits. It is these latter emotions that the McCain campaign is appealing to. When the dialogue is about feelings rather than facts we make very bad choices. We allow our emotions to disregard the obvious and the difficult in favor of what is familiar and comforting.

    This election finds us at a pivotal point in our history. Our vitality as a nation is under withering assault domestically and internationally. From the state of American education to foreign and economic affairs we are failing. If we do not turn the dynamics of this election towards the issues there will be grave consequences for our future. If we do not demand truth and accountability from the candidates we will squander our hard fought privilege of voting. If many in the media do not turn away from punditry, the petty and the sensational, in favor of educating us factually about the substantive differences between the candidates, they will fail us again as many did by becoming swept up in the emotions leading to the Iraq War.

    The real choice in this election is whether the electorate will choose to rely on facts or feelings when they cast their ballots. Rick Davis, John McCain???s campaign manager, has said that ???This election is not about issues.??? We very much need to prove him wrong.

    • Posted By: no expectations @ 09/10/2008 10:26:37 PM

      No matter which side of the argument you are on, this is a well reasoned post. No spewing, hatred or ideology; just a thoughtful explanation of who you are voting for and why. Thanks for restoring my faith and proving that there are still a few rational voters in this country.

  • Posted By: bammer @ 09/10/2008 10:03:56 PM

    I THINK WE NEED MORE RATIONAL CANDIDATES AND A MORE RATIONAL SELECTION PROCESS.

    THE DEMOCRATIC SUPERDELEGATES, MAIN STREAM MEDIA, AND HOWARD DEAN ARE TO OPEC OF STUPID FOR SELECTING BARACK OBAMA WITHOUTGETTING HILLARY CLINTON AS A RUNNING MATE.

  • Posted By: tender @ 09/10/2008 9:41:44 PM

    When we vote........
    Truth be told and so I've heard, we all get what we deserve.

    I took some of my wife's lipstic en put it on one of our donkies......
    she stead looked like a donkey to me.

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