In Search of Rational Voters

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  • Posted By: vindido @ 09/10/2008 2:15:51 PM

    Ok,so let me get this straight.Now that Mccain/Palin are ahead in the polls,the electorate are,at best,un informed?What a croc.This is the exact kind of thinking that will cost Obama Hussein the election this November.Not that his elitist condenscending Holier than Thou attitude is unique for his party.The Democratic party could only nominate two people this year who could lose to McCain.One was Hilary.The other one.....the former Muslim from that bastion of clean politics,Chicago.NObama 08.And keep the change

    • Posted By: yvoennsche @ 09/10/2008 5:43:15 PM

      Holier than thou attitude is patented by the Republicans

    • Posted By: AmeriScot @ 09/10/2008 4:00:24 PM

      You poor thing. You're really just a "shell" of a voter. There is hate coming out of every sentence you make. Hardly the stuff of rationality. I feel sorry for anyone so in love with being in the dark.

  • Posted By: no expectations @ 09/10/2008 4:54:44 PM

    The vindictive is pretty thick in these postings; as usual. As one poster noted, the problem lies with the extremists at both ends of the political spectrum. Strange, we never had that as much in this country until the appearance of 24 hour cable news channels. Everyone can now watch the Hannity's, Olbermann's and O'Reilly's as they preach to the choir and reinforce their viewer's opinions. In the end, does it accomplish anything other than increase the discord?

    As to the question of "rational voters", no, there probably aren't many in this country any longer. The country is divided as never before and much of this can be blamed on the above stated reasons. Conservatives run to Fox and liberals to MSN to find their views reinforced. And the above mentioned guys are happy to fill their vacuous minds.

    I've talked to Democrats that voted for Eisenhower and Reagan and Republicans that voted for Kennedy and Clinton. That's not likely to happen much today. So much for rational voters. Now it's all about idealogy. Sad.

    Sarah Palin is an excellent case in point. I have nothing against her but I cannot understand why Republicans are in a swoon over her. And in speaking to at least six of those Republicans, none could provide a satisfactory answer. They even realized they didn't have a good answer. But I'm sure Fox will soon provide them with one. And that is what we now do in this country. Unfortunately.

    • Posted By: piinalu @ 09/10/2008 5:09:22 PM

      Well said. Thanks.

      • Posted By: Phoenix AZ @ 09/10/2008 5:42:43 PM

        I agree. We are oversaturated with media, their take, over analysis and opinions. Iwould like to hear the facts so I can make a wise decision. Too often we hear speculation on what may be a news story! I remember the news when it was actually NEWS. Now it's a media frenzy circus. Enough is enough.

  • Posted By: claudiatucsonaz @ 09/10/2008 5:40:00 PM

    Many Americans have proven that they are clueless when it comes to voting. They voted in Bush Jr. TWICE and they are proving that they will vote by sound bytes - not issues. I am very disappointed in the electorate - I would expect more from we Americans.

  • Posted By: just jerry @ 09/10/2008 5:31:17 PM

    What makes a one voter rational and another irrational? Sometimes it is obvious to all and sometimes it depends on what the logical expectations are and when those logical expectations aren't what is happening rationality can be questioned instead of what might well be faulty logic.

    This is an easy election to misread. A candidate with a huge wow factor, Barack Obama, but in reality a very thin resume, can give the impression this election is going to be walk in the park especially given the mismanagement by the Bush administration and the neocon republicans.

    Then along comes a man no one logically thought would get the republican nomination with a deep resume, with a reputation of non-paritsanship so strong he was considered as a vice presidential candidate by the democrats in 2004. A man much maligned by Bush is 2000, a man who has stood up to Bush on important issues, no matter how often he voted with the president and suddenly we aren't talking about political parties anymore. We are instead talking about one candidate with a career record of real reform in Washington politics against a candidate who also has based his campaign on change.

    Rational voters have options that pundits and experts can't see given what those experts and pundits expected to happen. This should be a strange election, this should be an inpredicatable election, this should be an election where the old paradigm of politics no longer works. We even have a woman on one ticket and a black on the other, the times they are a changing and with that change come options for rational voters not easy admitted to, or wanted by those who want things to go as planned, or as they traditonally do.

  • Posted By: roget thesaurus @ 09/10/2008 5:12:15 PM

    In the last quarter of American constitutional history, there have been 14 presidential elections. The voters have chosen the Republican candidate 9 of the 14 times. 4 of the 5 Republican presidents during this span have won re-election. Only 1 of the 4 Democrats during this time was chosen to continue. What do the Republican candidates seem to have that the Democrats cannot seem to grasp. It must be a perceived cinscept, but what is it?

    • Posted By: Elistra @ 09/10/2008 5:19:01 PM

      Easy. They convince the mouth-breathers among us that they're "just like them", and play on their fear of anyone who isn't a WASP in order to gain support.

      As for the Democratic exception... Clinton's real edge was that he was extremely skilled at pretending to be a "good 'ol boy", thereby fooling the mouth-breathers into voting for him.

  • Posted By: whatmeworry @ 09/10/2008 4:39:51 PM

    I was one of those people who thought that McCain actually did say we might stay in Iraq for 100 years and so was surprised when you definitively stated that he said "nothing of the sort". Just to be sure I did a quick Google and found this YouTube video -- www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFknKVjuyNk -- where he says exactly that.

    Get your facts straight please.

    • Posted By: Timotheus_DC @ 09/10/2008 4:42:31 PM

      If you had half a brain in your head you would know that he said that if that is would it took to get the job done then so be it, if we have it done sooner then we would be out. He never said we would be there 100 years, he was being rhetorical in that we would be there until the job was done. Get your facts straight, maybe go back to school...

      • Posted By: piinalu @ 09/10/2008 5:17:05 PM

        Dude... lots of epithets being hurled about. Can't you tone the anger down a bit? It's making you look like one of the radical fringe.... not helping your case at all. But if you're going to keep it up, you should expand the repertoire a bit.... Just sayin'

    • Posted By: LYRICOSPINTO @ 09/10/2008 4:46:44 PM

      They are playing the semantics game - yes he says that as long as no one is dying, etc, but the trust of his statement is - it is okay with him to be there 100 years - screw the media - politicians may have learned all thes from them?? thanks

  • Posted By: Romano47 @ 09/10/2008 5:16:10 PM

    Two things are evident to me after reading this article. One: neither the author or Rick Shenkman like the fact that the elections went their way in 2000 and 2004. The only informed and intelligent voters are the ones that go along with more government and government control. In other words give us bread and circuses and we''l all be happy.

  • Posted By: Loden Green @ 09/10/2008 5:12:29 PM

    The real problem in this country in not with irrational voters, nor is the problem confined to politics. It's just magnifed in an election year. The probelm is that vast numbers of Americans let somebody else do their thinking for them. From talk radio to bloggers to political spinmeisters to talking heads on television, there are plenty of folks who will gladly tell you how to think. The scary thing is that people are actually buying into such horsehockey and taking it as gospel. I'm, acquainted with some educated and intelligent people who ought to know better, but they regularly forward some of the most outrageous and untrue e-mails on politics and urban legends that you will ever see. You could certainly describe most of them as "irritational." The American who thinks for himself or herself is fast becoming a vanishing breed. That's one reason this country is headed righ into the toilet

  • Posted By: Elistra @ 09/10/2008 5:05:35 PM

    A rational electorate? Well, if we shipped the bible-thumpers off to a third-world country (whose laughably backward views and values they are FAR more in tune with!), it would certainly be a step in the right direction.

  • Posted By: whatmeworry @ 09/10/2008 4:38:48 PM

    I was one of those people who thought that McCain actually did say we might stay in Iraq for 100 years and so was surprised when you definitively stated that he said "nothing of the sort". Just to be sure I did a quick Google and found this YouTube video -- www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFknKVjuyNk -- where he says exactly that.

    Get your facts straight please.

    • Posted By: piinalu @ 09/10/2008 5:05:01 PM

      He did say it, but I think the point was that by taking it our of the context of what the Senator was saying, they twisted the meaning and made him sound like that was his plan, not just an inarticulate way of saying that he didn't want to set a timeline and that we'd stay as long as he deemed it necessary.

  • Posted By: gvillagran3 @ 09/10/2008 5:01:45 PM

    RBOLEND

    Sincerely friend you are not understanding where I come from. When I posted "where were you in the last 8 years" I ment the Republican party . The fact rbolend is that for 6 years the Bush Administration had full control of Washignton.

    The results are plain for all to see to the point that now you Republicans want to change from the Republicans!!! Understendable with Bush's record, but what to me is incredible is the way you guys rationalise your change. Your candidate of "change" is the same man that; 1) The Right savaged in 2000 and discarded in favor of Bush because he was too much of a "Maverik" and not represntative of your party. 2) The change you want comes after your party supporting and defending the Bush administration 100% of the time now has an ephiphany comming right on time for the election...... Forgive my skeptycism but that sounds just too convenient. In a Democracy my friend it is incumbent upon the people that elected the party in power to pressure the party in power while THEY HAVE THE POWER for the changes they seek!!!! Not to waith until they are about to loose power to ask for a change!!!!

    Also, in your answer you assume I believe that the Rich are over taxed when in fact I could care less about who gets what, and in what proportion in tax cuts..... MY point is that we can not continue as a country to have it both ways.. We want less taxes, and we want more spending...... And OH yes, we want politicians to lie to us about spending cuts that allways come at voting time, but never get identified, or implemented.

    You take me for an inocent kid friend? You think I was living in Mars in the last 8 years???

    Let me add another chapter to your Economic 101 book. We keep on spending like drunken sailors, saving 0 Dollars for our retirement, and cutting taxes left and right and we are looking at real trouble for us as individuals, and for our country.

    And on another book off the shelves. Common sense 101. A politician will say anything to get elected. When push comes to shove what he can deliver does not only depend on him, but in many, many differerent constituencies. At the end of the day I was hoping that we were mature enough to uderstand the difference between change, and more of the same.

    If you tell me that McCain will "cut spending" ..... I will answer with a "so will Obama" . If you ask me where are Obama's cuts? I will answer....... Sitting next to McCain's. Feel better now?

    Ready to vote for Obama now?

    SO much for the phantom cutting that allways comes at election time.... With the tax cuts from your party.... Allways at election time as sure as the sun will rise.

    Now that's real change .... It all smells so fresh!!!









  • Posted By: piinalu @ 09/10/2008 5:00:07 PM

    Two things:
    1. Excellent article. My father (in his 70's) has been saying for years that we made a big mistake when stopped teaching civics in high school. I was pleased to see something as simple and straightforward proposed as a solution to a serious issue in America. I don't care who you support, just do it with some facts. The 9/11 data is as compelling as any when you consider how it effected the last election.
    2. Some people just like to make fools of themselves - evidenced by way too many of the posts that highlight the articles main point.

  • Posted By: amzimbler @ 09/10/2008 4:58:13 PM

    09/10

    Yes, indeed, Timotheus, I certainly want rational, reasonable people who believe as you do governing our country...

    ProChoiceandIVote

  • Posted By: paulte @ 09/10/2008 3:32:03 PM

    I think people tend to vote their self interest. This is rational but it is not always what is best for the country. Some people are principled and vote for what they feel is best for the country. This is rational too. However, there is no free lunch. Government benefits only come from increased taxation which means reduced private wealth.

    Some people think the government should soak the rich in order to benefit the poor. But in general higher taxes on big incomes amount to a tax on capital which reduces jobs and opportunities. This ends up increasing unemployment which means the govt must tax even more to support the poor. Liberals spend their whole lives trying to solve problems which they caused in the first place by employing faulty economics.

    Liberals are irrational. People should never vote for Liberals if they wish to vote rationally since Liberals are irrational. All people should vote conservative if they wish to be rational. And rational people would not vote for Obama who is a Liberal and therefore not rational!

    Yes, we need more rational voters to keep Obama out of the White House. Think about it, do we really want to be ruled by an Obama - Pelosi axis with Oprah Winfrey as chief Obama advisor and "girlfriend" to Michelle? Will there be an Oprah room in the White House when Michelle gets to redecorating?

    NOBAMA, NOBAMA, NOBAMA, NOBAMA, NOBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Posted By: Huberc @ 09/10/2008 3:42:52 PM

      I think you are an example of the irrational voter. Look at the irrational anger and falsehoods in your text. There is no reasoned argument there. The fringe is the problem.

      • Posted By: paulte @ 09/10/2008 4:56:30 PM

        What falsehoods exactly? If Liberals are completely irrational!

      • Posted By: SueZQ @ 09/10/2008 3:48:03 PM

        I agree. I was a fan of Oprah until she jumped on NObama's campaign. No respect for her now. He's such a Rock Star, Obama! Hitting up all the talk shows like he is. Too bad he didn't chose to debate - because he knows he can't win the debate. NOBAMA, NOBAMA!!!!

        • Posted By: indthinker @ 09/10/2008 4:23:58 PM

          The sad part is you believe what you say...hopefully you will watch the debates..although based on
          your comments..it won't make much difference..ignorance is bliss..and lemors follow eachother blindlessly..often to their demise..you seem to live in a world of bliss.

        • Posted By: Huberc @ 09/10/2008 4:11:53 PM

          There are three debates scheduled between Obama and Mc Cain, also one between Palin and Biden. Looks like you're keeping an open mind though.....

  • Posted By: rogerally @ 09/10/2008 4:51:32 PM

    Rational people no longer can vote. Since both candidates offer a Federal government of increasing scope and activism. Advocates of limited government are the rationalists. We have nowhere to turn.

  • Posted By: usingyourhead @ 09/10/2008 4:50:06 PM

    I have read all of the comments and it is wondrous that there are actually a few rational, intelligent, honest, well-researched entries. We must accept that not all persons can build their beliefs in this manner, but a few million more. would unquestionably help our great country!

  • Posted By: KaceyPA @ 09/10/2008 4:50:00 PM

    You only need to look at the dangerously widening gap between the haves and the have nots to understand the economic policy that the Republicans want to maintain. CEO compensation when compared with the average worker salary is truly approaching a feudal lord system. The few have their's and way way more then they could ever need while the rest struggle. This isnt capitalism ... it is capitalism out of control.

    The Republicans will always protect those at the top thinking they will cure our ills ... all evidence to the contrary. In this time where the rich have become far far richer while the rest of us have suffered the slow pain of credit shortages, foreclosures, layoffs, energy costs, college costs, the air we breath and the heat we feel in the air but can't pay for in our homes.

    When the economy falls apart those at the top will be cash rich and be fine and go world wherever things are good leaving the rest behind to deal with the mess they created and leave behind.

    Face it .. it has always been and will always be .. the Republicans are for business (Halliburton, Exxon anyone?) and the Democrats are for the workers .. regardless what the Republicans say right now to suit their short term election goals. But in the end Republicans will be Republicans and business and the rich will rejoice in their victory. If you are not the rich or the privileged or if the chasm between the have and haves not disturbs you then you must vote Democratic to be fair to yourself.

  • Posted By: bdhotwheel @ 09/10/2008 4:39:32 PM

    Comment: Yes, bdhotwheel, liberals spend all day passing out condoms, being extremely gay, and leeching off the government. Think for one second about how much your world view revolves around belligerent exaggerations, misplaced anger, and generalizations. Just one second. I think that's all the time you'll need to realize that YOU are one of the irrational voters that this article describes.

    If you look at the Democratic stances on all the issues, my irrational rationale is rational. Obama is a sham and so are the feel go followers he has in the "reformed" Democratic party. Obama is a Christian my butt!

    • Posted By: LYRICOSPINTO @ 09/10/2008 4:49:51 PM

      Rather not think about your christian butt - thanks anyhow - a gay democrat

    • Posted By: steve02001 @ 09/10/2008 4:47:04 PM

      are you going through some sort of political schizoid episode?

  • Posted By: mexed @ 09/10/2008 4:49:47 PM

    The founders of the nation were rational. They were mostly Masons, not Christians or Jews and reason is their "god". I'm not a Mason but think they did a good job. I also think we are close to a time when the constitution will be in danger and it will not be from the left, it will be from the right. The present campaign is one step closer to reasonless voting. I think the historical question "who would you rather have a beer with" ...and answer, "George Bush" is an example of where we are.and have been leaning for a long time. American people may have some smarts but they are not people who respect reason very much any more. The respect gratification and anyone who can promiss it. Evangelicals promise gratification. "if you do this or that, and had some sign that it was from God, then it is good." That is gratification. How about a poll that asks something like: Answer please: "Yes, I feel that a lot." or "No, I don't feel that much": Question: "When Sarah Palin speaks about how great the country is, do you feel really warm and happy?
    You will likely find a perfect match between this response and a voting pattern. That is why the Republicans want to keep it a happy feeling, an upset feeling, or, a "sacrificial feeling, or an "angry feeling." They have no issues and must win on "feeling." Lots of American will love it.

  • Posted By: gt350pony66 @ 09/10/2008 4:23:21 PM

    Huh,
    How pathetic are the starry-eyed democrats who think Obama has any experince, knowledge or fortitude to take care of this country. Tax and spend, tax and spend, tax and spend. Personally I'm not a fan of having my hard earned money go to the masses who are looking for a hand out, expecting the government to support them.
    Also, if Obama is elected, watch how terrorist attacks increase...you can bet the terror sleeper cells will turn out to vote in this election...for Obama

    • Posted By: stars35 @ 09/10/2008 4:32:09 PM

      I think your response is an example of an uneducated voter. Regarding experience, you should read my post below that looks at experience from a historical perspective. In terms of taxes, Obama has pledged to cut taxes for those making less than 250K, to indicate otherwise is to believe the lies that are coming from the Repubs. In terms of spending, we currently have the largest deficit in US history, which erased the largest surplus in history from the Clinton admin. This is contrary to a true conservative ideology who believe that government should spend less and get rid of waste. Two concepts that the Bush administration never seemed to grasp. As far as terrorism, to think that the Iraq war has made us safer is to live in a dream world. Did you know that the last time airport security was checked they failed to detect items that could be used or actually were weapons 20 out of 21 times or nearly 100% failure rate? How is that for protection? I could go on, but it would probably be a waste of time.

      • Posted By: piinalu @ 09/10/2008 4:49:47 PM

        There was a study done a while back that concluded that the key variable between competence and incompetence was that the incompetent were absolutely sure of themselves. No doubts. No second guessing. No need to learn more to stay on top of things. It's an interesting paradox but it plays out eerily in the gt35openy66's post. To post that comment, essentially highlighting yourself as an example of the article's central point, is pretty comical. It's also underscores, at least anecdotally, that we're not in very good hands electorally speaking.

        I've been waiting for something like this for awhile. I thought I was the only one questioning whether a big chunk of our fellow citizens really pay any attention. .

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