Pakistan’s Dangerous Double Game

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  • Posted By: Trooper101st @ 09/16/2008 11:39:48 AM

    Hah, the party's over for the 2 faced P-stani's. Its just beginning for US forces. No more $, no attack choppers, and NO F-16's. Put the strike packages together and let it rip, hit them all over the tribal areas. In May there was less than 50 camps, now there are over 160. All done with the tacit approval of the P-stani military and ISI. AURA 123 better check ur history, coz the ISI created the Talib movement. The US backed alot of anti-Soviet players, but the P-stani's put Omar&Co in power. Those schools, called madrosses, are actually a breeding ground for moslem extremism. They teach hate and intolerance, and its long overdue they get wats coming. I spent 30 months total there, and I have seen it. They are BARBARIC. They think its thier "duty" to kill ALL non-moslems, so my advice to you is convert and join those cretins, or reject thier beliefs and join the "human" race. R. 1 BCT, A Co LRS 101st Airborne

    • Posted By: Holly Garfield @ 09/17/2008 12:12:10 AM

      That does explain why so many good, hard working, peaceful, tolerant, unbigoted, easy going Muslims come to the US. It also means that the people Pakistan needs the most are leaving, and the ones that Pakistan needs the least are staying.

  • Posted By: sb0614 @ 09/14/2008 2:18:16 PM

    The "students of Islam" or the Taliban was born in the tribal areas (NWFP, FATA) of Pakistan in the late 1980's to early 1990's funded and armed by the Pakistani ISI. The infrastructure of madarassas and guns (some of it from the US - post-Soviet invasion of Afghanistan) existed in a conducive and fundamentalist environment to welcome and nurture this birth. The aim of the ISI was to prevent having two "anti-Pakistan" neighbors on each side of its borders. India, bigger and powerful, will remain a foe; however, weaker Afghanistan can easily be invaded and controlled. Furthermore, the India-Afghanistan relationship will be cutoff giving Pakistan easy access and control of Afghanistan via the Taliban.

    Well, the Taliban movement grew strong enough to takeover Afghanistan thanks to the ISI and its' friends in the military and the Taliban friendly areas of FATA and NWFP in Pakistan. These areas had for a long time (since 1947) been providing jihadists to fight and wrestle Kashmir from the infidel India. Come in Al Qaeda. Now, there were other fish to fry - mama infidel the US. The cradle of international terrorism was firmly in place to create havoc around the world. Pakistan via the ISI allowed the country to become a training ground and hideout for Islam based terrorists. Seeds sown soon after its' violent break-off with India were, finally, bearing fruit.

    Pakistan gave birth to the Taliban - Pakistan cannot and will not abandon its' own child!
    What was the US thinking?

    • Posted By: kimskams80 @ 09/16/2008 5:46:28 PM

      Totally one sided ... Total....Yup its really the best one sided comment ... open ur other eye mate

    • Posted By: Holly Garfield @ 09/14/2008 3:47:44 PM

      In reply to the question: Pakistan gave birth to the Taliban - Pakistan cannot and will not abandon its' own child! What was the US thinking?

      The answer is the the parent, and no one else, is reponsible for the acts of the child. The parent needs to control the child. This child needs a good spanking and have its toys taken away. Pakistan needs to start acting like a responsible parent and stop acting like another spoiled brat. The parent, and not the neighbor, is responsible for putting up the fence.

      Pakistan, you have a badly behaving child who is a danger to your neighbors. If you fail to make your child behave and don't put up a fence yourself then your neighbors will take whatever action they feel necessary. If you don't like what the neighbors do then the responsibility is on you, not your neighbors, to rein in your child. And don't tell us how to handle your wayward child!!!! IT IS YOUR FAULT!!!!!!

      • Posted By: kimskams80 @ 09/15/2008 12:38:41 AM

        ahaaa.. Ok lets put it in this context and redefine it.. "Pakistan gave birth to Taliban"...No ... Surprisingly you people sometimes ignore the major facts...Talibans are PAK+USA production.. billions given to PAKISTAN by USA to create and train jehadis against Russians.. at that time these were heros for your media (not supporting Talibans here at all...just to remind you) ... Then when USA objectives were achieved, they left them...now of course if mother/father will leave the childs like USA left Taliabns open, what childrens are supposed to do.... Now talibans are asking USA why u left us ...ha ha ha... and thats what Charles Wilson might be asking that time....Dear things are very simple, U cannot cannot cannot eliminate terrorism the way USA wants...Multidimensional measures are needed..... Street politics is needed..Killing innocent people as USA is doing will create more terrorists...

        • Posted By: Holly Garfield @ 09/15/2008 8:35:06 AM

          To kimskams80 about your reply: You are absolutely right about street politics needed to fight the Taliban. That is where the people of Pakistan need to work. No one but the Pakistani people can do that. But the US and Afghanistan cannot sit by and let the Taliban have a free pass on violence. We cannot stop fighting the Taliban. If the Taliban stirkes in Afghanistan then those defending Afghanistan must hit back. We are back to the government of Pakistan must be the one who controls the people of Pakistan or face the consequences. It is Pakistan's lack of control of the people on Pakistan's side of the border that is creating the problem. And that is Pakistan's responsibility alone.

          You stated that the Taliban is fathered by the US who trained the jihadists against the Russians. That the US is responsible for its children. Well, if we are the father as you said then we are entitled to spank our own children. Isn't that what we are doing? If what you said is true the the US is acting like a responsible parent and working to control its child and stop that child from hurting others.

          My personal opinion is that the Taliban are really adults, no longer children. They should be treated as adults who are responsible for their own actions. If they attack others then they should be stopped by whatever means necessary. If Pakistan either cannot or will not (in this case cannot) stop the Taliban from commiting violence across its border then Pakistan should accept that the US and Afghanistan are doing that job for them until the Pakistan army arrives. The Pakistani army is coming, and they are doing a very good job in the process. But until they arrive at the problem areas they need to allow the US and Afghanistan to defend ourselves.

          • Posted By: Herunar @ 09/16/2008 5:48:45 AM

            "Pakistan gave birth to the Taliban." Yes, but the U.S. funded it. It's like a man goes and *** a woman and gets her pregnant and then abandon them and now twenty years later blames the woman for the fatherless child growing up to be a real mess.

    • Posted By: emmarcee @ 09/15/2008 10:41:45 AM

      best comment ever!

  • Posted By: alfa11 @ 09/15/2008 10:09:54 PM

    Pakistan is categorized by International Terrorism Experts World Wide ,as the most dangerous
    terrotist country in the World.
    It is super-corupt.the army has always said the last word,sinde its foundation without any respect
    for its corrupt politicians.
    The ISI is as terrorist itself as the Taliban,with evidence of support for it (the taliban).
    Let us hope that this conflict does not degenerate into a frontal confrontation, between the
    United States of America and Pakistan,because of its continual logistical support of the
    Taliban,and of their Muslim Sympathy against anything non-muslim,the WEST and the
    U.S.A. at the front.

    • Posted By: kimskams80 @ 09/16/2008 5:41:04 PM

      Thanks for this DISINFORMATION he he

  • Posted By: RiversideWarrior @ 09/16/2008 12:55:07 PM

    I have always thought that an invasion of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia was appropriate given their roles in providing manpower, $$ and material support and shelter to those who carried out 9/11. Unfortunately, the Bush regime has protected them for a long time given the long-standing oil business relationships between Bush and his Texas cronies and the House of Saud.

    • Posted By: kimskams80 @ 09/16/2008 5:25:33 PM

      and better you think only

  • Posted By: Quest2008 @ 09/14/2008 1:43:40 PM

    Vkarthik - Hundu extremism has been the problem in the subcontinent long before Pakistan was ever created. The caste system has subjugated millions of Indians for centuries. Hindu extremist massacred thousands of Muslims in Gujjarat . India has raped, murdered and tortured thousands of Kashmiri's, in 60 years of brutal state repression, documented by Amnesty International. For years India has sponsored terrorism in Pakistan.

    • Posted By: HOMIRUSTOM @ 09/16/2008 3:48:49 PM

      As far as Hundu extremism it has been created by the provaking Muslims. Gujarat is a land Mathama Gandhi was born but there is a limit to what humam beaing can bear. Since centuarys Muslims invading Persians and converting them in an Islamic nation and then invading India breaking their temples, idoles and looting all valubales i.e. like the peacok thorne etc. etc. Leaving the Sindhies without homeland, making a Hindu Kashmire where Nehru was born and converting Kashmire into a majorty muslim state. You saw India sponsores terrorism in Pakistan when it is the other way round.All Terrorist attacks have been claimed by Taliban or Muslim groups and all Terrorist attacks in India are also claimed by muslims. The muslims have seeded a lot of evil in India andIN the heart of Indians. As far as I know Indian are tollrant and peace loving people who want progress in there country which the Pakistanies cant see.I totaly stand for the Indians and the Jews thow I am not one of them.

  • Posted By: Akmatic @ 09/16/2008 1:41:39 PM

    It's ironic that they'd probably be shooting at us with the very weapons we gave them via foreign aid if they're indeed serious about not letting the US make cross boarder raids.

    Pakistan has mobilized about 100k troops, yet they're still sitting on their hands as far as the tribal area is concerned. If they're not going to do anything about it, foreign aid should be cut off completely until we get some results.

    • Posted By: M.Taimur @ 09/16/2008 2:39:33 PM

      The operation is going on, day and night in Bajaur Agency. Everyday about 60-70 millitants are killed. Pak are army is decimating TTP

  • Posted By: HOMIRUSTOM @ 09/16/2008 2:20:54 PM

    Ofcouse Pakistan is playing adouble game. Pakistan needs Ammerican aid which is in Bilions of Dollars if they wipe Terrorists out of there country on more aid for them. 97% of Pakistanies hate Americans you can see them burn Aamerican flages very often and the other clever 3% making a fool of the Americans. American heiped the Afghans drive the Russians out and in return the Americans where attacked by these Afghans. You wounder if the Russians where still there in Afghanistan the Twin Tower still safe and 3000 inosent people still alive. The Pakistani will do the same.

  • Posted By: Herunar @ 09/16/2008 5:17:33 AM

    Despite what the media tells you, nationalism and the inability to lead a good life are more important factors than religious extremism in the insurgencies in the Middle-east. Remember the Crusades? They were funded by the Pope and the monarchies, but the crusaders were mostly commoners who had no food to eat and had to join the Crusades for three meals a day. Rebuilding Afghanistan and helping out the Pakistani government would be much more effective than going in Pakistan and causing high civilian casualties, angering the military and the Pakistani people. That's not only futile, it's also irresponsible. One million Iraqis were killed and three million Iraqis fled Iraq in just three years. ANY Iraqi would be pissed.

    • Posted By: HelloWorld @ 09/16/2008 1:59:37 PM

      People joined the Crusades to get three meals a day? Nope. They joined because they actually thought they were doing God's Will. Sad to say, in those days, extremism rested more heavily on the Christian side.

      Rebuilding Afghanistan? I think you are doing that now and have actually made some progress, despite the efforts of persons who would like to turn the country into a theocracy, a form of government that has been obsolete in the West for the last three hundred years.

      Helping out the Pakistani government? I think you are doing that, too. The right hand seems to be accepting your dollars and military aid; while, the left hand is doing something else. God knows what the mouth is saying. However, the Pakistani government seems to be a multi-headed beast. Some of the heads might actually be sincere; but, some of them are definitely taking you for a ride.

      One million Iraqis killed? That's a great boost to the local funeral business. A guy can make a fortune selling tombstones. You probably cannot walk down the street without tripping over a body. I don't know where you get your figures; but, you might have too many zeroes with THAT figure. Still, it is a fact that large numbers of Iraqis have been killed. How many have been killed by their own people, though? Their own people but going to a different mosque.

    • Posted By: Holly Garfield @ 09/16/2008 10:47:49 AM

      Nice Idea. Bring it to the Taliban and I am sure they will wholeheartedly agree, put down their weapons and disband immediately. And if you believe that I have a good deal on Lehman stock for you.

  • Posted By: aura123 @ 09/16/2008 10:50:46 AM

    For my firend who said that "Comment: "Pakistan gave birth to the Taliban." Your history is very weak
    Go back and read the history who fought against sovite union and who created Taliban ,

    America created all the Taliban to fight against Soviet Union , American given them all kind of weapons and when the war finished , America left those guys without clearing the mess they created on Pakistani soul

    They didn't have schools, jobs ,any system but only thing they had gift from US i.e Weapons
    Pakistan is not a rich coutry , Pakistan didn't have enought resouces to provide school and jobs to all those fighter left after soviet war,

    Pakistan paid the price then and now paying the price again for American's policies

    • Posted By: Trooper101st @ 09/16/2008 11:52:52 AM

      Go there and help, see how you get treated. My guess is ur head will be found in one spot, ur body in another. They HATE you, understand? Unless you convert and learn to walk with that burqa on, ur toast.

  • Posted By: rangerone314 @ 09/16/2008 9:16:12 AM

    Step 1-Spend @ $1-2 trillion to refit the US with solar power and wean off of petroleum.
    Step 2-Pull our military back from vulnerable areas like Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Step 3-Drop 700-800 thermonuclear warheads on Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Pakistan. (goal is not to just kill the people, but to sterilize the soil, even)
    Step 4-Make anyone in the Middle East who wants to target the US with retaliation for Step 3 aware that we have several thousand more warheads available to target them as well.

    • Posted By: Trooper101st @ 09/16/2008 11:49:52 AM

      thats wat we all want to do, coz they hate us. the iranian people don't, its thier gov. The p-stani people hate our guts, and nuking thier missle sites may happen one day. 5 kiloton bunker busters dropped from 40,000 feet may be used to kill the iranian nuke program, so you may get part of ur wish.

  • Posted By: Herunar @ 09/16/2008 5:21:59 AM

    "We are nice to those who work with us." Until you invade that country, of course. Remember Iraq and how the U.S. supported it during its war with Iran? Remember Afghanistan and the U.S.'s secret war with the USSR? The entire guerrilla organization of both of these countries are trained and equipped by the U.S. And now the U.S. is fighting against them. It is not just hypocritic and irresponsible. It's woefully idiotic.

    • Posted By: Holly Garfield @ 09/16/2008 10:39:03 AM

      How nice of you to have the 20-20 hindsight to know that things didn't always work out as planned. The US funded the Mujahadeen against the Soviet Union. Ufortunately, the US crystal ball doesn't work any better than anyone else's crystal ball. The US and Russia were allies in WWII and as soon as the bullets stopped flying went our separate ways.

      I see people complaining because the US didn't keep its nose in Afghansitan after the Russian withdrawl, and often the same peoele complaining about the US putting its nose in the same places. These people want the US to work in their interest instead of the US interest. I'm sorry folks, you'll just have to do some of the dirty work you want the US to do yourself.

  • Posted By: M.Taimur @ 09/15/2008 3:13:57 PM

    Very concerned, you guys are about rise of Taliban in Afghanistan. Thats legit, but tell me one thing. Who supports and funds TTP and Mulla Fazllulah of Swat. Who funds them to destroy bridges and Motels. Burn schools. Does the ISI fund them to do that in Pakistan? Who funds BLA? How do they get satellite phones, night vision goggles and sophisticated weaponary. Does ISI pay them to destroy pipelines and power stations. Where is Bahram Bugti hidding? Any guess. The answer is very simple. RAW is inside afghanistan and their consulates are hub for terrorist activety against Pakistan. The US knows that. Karzai knows that. But what does US do in this regard. Nothing. Terrorism against Pakistan is cultivated right under your God damn noses and you look they other way. If Pakistan intelligence are playing double game, good for them.

    This is rank hipocrisy by Americans. They only care about themselves. Newsweek will never have the balls to write about this now will they.

    • Posted By: Holly Garfield @ 09/15/2008 4:03:12 PM

      You have very good points, M.Taimur. Where does this money come from? From the news reports I have seen it is primarily from opium money and from kidnapping ransoms. Much of this is happening in Afghansitan. This gives both Pakistan and Afghanistan a mutual interest. The US has an interest because much of the opium production ends up in the US.

      You are right to say that America's interest is primarily Americans. Can you name me one ethnic or politcal group that does NOT have self interest at its heart? Do Pakistanis put Afghanis or Indians before their interest? Do you put someone else's interest ahead of yours? Do Muslims put Christians, or Hindus, or the Jewish or agnostics ahead of Islam?

      I understand that the Taliban in Pakistan acts with violence against Pakistani citizens. The Taliban does not act as if it recognizes any difference between Pakistan and Afghanistan. It uses the border dispute as a tool to protect itself from attack while operating freely in both countries. Terrorism in Pakistan is is cultivated under the nose of Pakistanis as well as Afghanis. The Taliban is using the mutual distrust of both those of Pakistan and those of Afghanistan to make fools of you both. They are doing a marvelous job of it, and it works. You defeat the Taliban by acting as a team. The US knows this. That is why we are working with BOTH sides. For Pakistan to be angry over US incursions plays into the hands of the Taliban, and that means more dead Pakistanis before the Taliban can be defeated. The Taliban is playing the Pakistani sentiment like the master manipulators they are.

      The US supported the Mujahadeen against the Soviet invasion. Does that mean we knowingly supported or created the Taliban? No. All it means is that our crystal ball didn't work any better than any one else's crystal ball. Hindsight is 20-20. Foresight doesn't have that luxury. Were we supposed to let the Soviet Union take over Afghanistan? If the US didn't support the Mujahadeen do you think that Pakistan would somehow wave a magic wand to keep the same Soviet Union from invading Pakistan?

      • Posted By: M.Taimur @ 09/15/2008 8:12:54 PM

        I don't blame US for supporting Mujahideen, one bit. And yes, every country gives precidence to their interests. The reason Pakistani intelligence is not behind WAR ON TERROR whole heartedly is because they have mammoth apprehensions regarding Afghanistan. No sooner than once Pakistan backed government (Taliban) come out of comission, the country became a hub for anti-Pakistan activity. So it is indeed true that they do see an option with Taliban still.

        The Karzai government is a willing partner of Indian intelligence agency. What America needs to do is to tell them to stop the nonsense. Some fears in Pakistan regarding Afghanistan are very legitimate.

        And lets be honest about one thing. The main source of money for the terrorists flourishes under American noses in Afghanistan. Also, do you know that Karzai government doesn't recognize the international border between Pakistan & Afghanistan. It has major claim over Pakistani territory. Because of very same reason, they oppose fencing and mining of part of border, If under these circumstances mistrust doesn't brew, what will.

        Controlling the border isn't only Pakistan's job. A border has two sides. I don't know the exact count but security posts on Pakistani side outnumber those on other 10 to 1.

        • Posted By: Holly Garfield @ 09/15/2008 8:58:20 PM

          This is a reply to a reply of an earlier message:

          Every border has two sides, and the US was only targeting those who were causing problems on the Afghan side of the border. Pakistan may have outposts along the border, but not at the points in question. The Taliban knows where your outposts are and where they aren't. The Taliban goes where they aren't.

          The Pakistani army seems to be getting closer to the problem area. The latest reports show a possible linkup. Apparently the Pakistani army fired some warning shots at a US helicopter at the border who didn't realize that the Pakistani army was finally arriving. No harm intended, no offense taken. This looks like the needed help is finally arriving. Good news for both Afghanistan and Pakistan, bad news for the Taliban. Once the border is secured then each side can work on their own without stepping on toes.

          If the Karzai government is a willing partner to the Indian intelligence agency why should the US get involved? The US doesn't have any particular conflict with either country. Is this issue really coming from the same poster who keeps complaining about US involvement in other countries?

          • Posted By: Herunar @ 09/16/2008 5:25:22 AM

            "Every nation has its own interests" is your explanation of why the U.S. turns its back to the thousands of terrorist attacks in China, India, Pakistan, Russia and Cuba. Exactly. So why does the U.S. expect these countries to cooperate fully with her in its "war against terrorism"? Especially when the civilians of these countries are at risk?

          • Posted By: M.Taimur @ 09/16/2008 4:46:07 AM

            Be resonable my friend. There are two entities which control Afghanistan. The tribal warlords or US. Karzai can't get out of Kabul. US is there, it is there job to check. Well if they can't, does it give us the right to bomb the camps and consulates there. That would be a mess.

  • Posted By: shovonc @ 09/16/2008 3:57:49 AM

    I'm an Indian and I'm worried. The thing is, there are a lot of arguments in favour of the US crossing the border, but has anyone thought throught the consequences. In the process, would you not radicalise even more of the population? Indiscriminate civilian casualties is precisely what led to a massive Iraqi insurgency in the first few years. It's important to note that whenever Pakistan has had free elections, hardcore Islamic parties have never won more than 10% of the vote. If the US moves in indiscriminately, this could change very rapidly. In my view, despite what the international press says, the average Pakistani citizen is not a radical. Their problem is the army, which refuses to stay in the barracks. The US practically feeds and clothes them, so they should use that leverage to make them keep out of politics. Let the generals make their money, but keep them out of government.

    Case in point. Why is the issue of cross border incursions constantly being discussed with Kayani? Should it not be discussed with the President of Pakistan? Who the hell is Kiyani to decide what should be done? The legitimate government of Pakistan should take the decision, and Kiyani should do what the government tells him to do. Despite being a proud democracy, I'd have to say the US is not doing much to support democracy in Pakistan, even after Musharraf. And that's the key. Pakistani people are not radicals. The army has to get out of their lives.

  • Posted By: fluffy II @ 09/14/2008 5:03:05 PM

    The U.S.'s International War on Terror was conceived as a coalition of countries from all over the world spanning Christian Europe, the Islamic World, South and East Asia adn the rest of the world. It was supposed to demonstrate that the war was primarily against extremists and terrorists and not against the Islamic nations of the world.

    Well... Bush's war has targetted Iraq creating 800,000 civilian deaths in 6 years of war and had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11; is threatening Iran with bombiing, and is now at Pakistan's doorstep about to start bombing the hell out of them because they have not performed as the U.S. wanted them to.

    Sounds like it's snowballing into a generalized war against Islamic people.

    What a far cry from the original plan to cooperate against terrorism on the basis of multiculturalism and religious diversity!

    It's beginning to sound like something akin to "CristalNicht" of 1938 in Nazi Germany.

    All Americans of conscience awaken...

    • Posted By: TheVigil @ 09/16/2008 3:29:21 AM

      Many of us have been awake for many years, and have spoken out against anti-Muslim prejudice as much as we have been able. But I do agree that for many hateful bigots in my country - people who genuinely believe all Islam wants them dead, much as the massive evidence to the contrary gets ignored - they're already thinking in terms of the "generalized war against Islamic people".

      I don't agree that we're close to Kristallnacht yet. Nearly half the country has consistently voted against the war in Iraq after the false premises of the war became clear and a lot of us were never even close to being fooled in the first place. There is much stronger opposition to the policies of hate than I believe there was in Nazi Germany in the late 1930s. And there is (unfortunate) historical precedent for some of these policies - but it does reinforce the fact that not everything in America has drastically changed in the last eight years. Japanese-Americans were interred during World War II in interment camps with poor conditions - but they were not killed, and today Japan and Japanese-Americans are integral parts of our country. The U.S. occupied the Phillippines at the turn of the last century in much the same way that it occupies Iraq now - eventually we let it go, and there are Phillippine-Americans in our workforce and cultural life. To put it bluntly, it's not all dark on the horizon.

      I absolutely despise that 9/11 has woken up a bigoted, angry, screaming, hateful part of my country that violently refuses to educate itself, won't listen to reason and verbally attacks their own countrymen for failing to hate Muslims as they do. But there have been very few physical attacks and nothing at all like Kristallnacht, at least not within the country, not yet. And there are a lot of resolute and watchful Americans who are starting to oppose this group more and more strongly as it becomes clear the problem isn't going away.

      I have known a lot of peaceful, educated, wonderful people of Arab descent - I have Lebanese in my ancestry as well as many European nations and Britain - and I'm as American as one comes. I love my country and what it stands for. And there is principled, resolute opposition to unilateralism that keeps getting defeated by a relatively small majority. As the destructive consequences of this unilateral point of view keep going on - and as my country wakes up to the fact that its wars are increasingly being fought by mercenaries at horrific cost to the economy - I believe there is a wonderful chance that the tide will shift.

      There's a saying attributed to Winston Churchill. "The Americans always do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the alternatives." Right now we're still in the "alternatives" stage. But I do believe we will get to the "right thing" stage. So don't lose hope.

      • Posted By: TheVigil @ 09/16/2008 3:37:22 AM

        Sorry, "Japan and Japanese-Americans are integral parts of our country" was badly, badly misworded and not intentionally (there was a lot of text there). My intent was something more like "Japanese-Americans are integral parts of our country and Japan is one of our foremost trade partners". I mean absolutely no offense to any Japanese reading these boards and apologize for the error.

    • Posted By: sb0614 @ 09/14/2008 8:41:45 PM

      8,000 not 800,000 - still too many. A slight exaggeration perhaps. Pakistan is a different ballgame however - just ask India.

      I disagree and, more importantly, offended by the comparison to Nazi Germany and it's massacre of the Jews.

      • Posted By: vkarthik @ 09/15/2008 11:04:38 AM

        I disagree. I would rephrase it as "US after 2 tries finally identified the right target". This is where US should have gone after in the first place. It is something all sundries accepted in US as well. Iraq invasion was one of the worst political decision by any president. That is accepted. But going after pakistan as Obama implies is not the same. Pakistan's hogwash tactics of driving away talibans are thoroughly exposed. IndProbabl

      • Posted By: fluffy II @ 09/14/2008 9:24:53 PM

        No, 800,000 civilians killed in Iraq I believe is the correct number. And why is Pakistan a different ballgame vis a vis India? Are they not human beings like everyone else? Pakistan constantly is characterized unfairly as India's "evil twin". The fact is that both countries have their good and bad points like everyone else. But if one wants to "ask India", I'll ask this: Why were 2,000-3,000 Muslims masacred at the alleged behest of the chief minister of the state where the incident occurred in 2002 and he remains in office and as yet untouched by the law?

        Nazi Germany was an extreme case where demonization of Jews led to their extermination. But one lesson learned from it is that people should not allow the demonization of any innocent populace be they of any religion or ethnic group because that slippery slope starting with demonization is a path which should never be allowed to be tread again...

        • Posted By: sb0614 @ 09/14/2008 10:31:27 PM

          Read any article on terrorism in a legitimate newspaper or magazine many references to Pakistan will be found. The Chief Minister in question in your article is still in power; however, his party lost in national elections even though no link was found. Not everyone votes based on religion many vote based on their economic situation. The same Chief Minister has made his state a business-friendly state and created thousands of jobs. India is growing rapidly and Gujarat is one of the fastest growing states in India.

          India has many ills it has to improve on and I'll be the first one to admit that. Pakistan however, has insurmountable challenges and is; therefore, in a different league and the rest of the world will echo that.

          • Posted By: fluffy II @ 09/14/2008 10:53:52 PM

            Then, my friend, if Pakistan has such insurmountable challenges, why isn't there some sympathy for Pakistan? Do you abandon someone who is in trouble? Do you kick them when they are down? No. You help them!
            Surely, there are some good people who live in Pakistan? They are not all terrorists.

            America should see this. And as an American I will push for it.

            By the way, I would absolutely love it if India would offer help to Pakistan in its hour of need. Perhaps even they could help eachother...What wonderful possibilites there are in this wide world.

  • Posted By: moulton@insightbb.com @ 09/16/2008 12:07:37 AM

    Oh give me a break. It's obvious that Pakistan is playing both sides. The average Pakistani wants peace, but the nut jobs want islamic dominance at anycost and they don't care ho they kill. The govenment of Pakistan, present and past, knows that these nuts are there and are trying to limit the damag to Pakistan. Consequently the government tries to placate both the U.S. and the rest of the west and the insane nut cases. This is not American oropaganda, but real life for Pakistan. The nut jobs want to destroy everything for their "islamic cause" an d every rational person knows it. The problem is that Pakistan's leadership, past and present, doesn't understand that they are doomed by playing both sides. They need to stand up and fight for the rational, at all costs, or be doomed. It is true that a misplaced bomb will create blood enemies despite the reason for the attack. It is my hope that the U.S. will be more carefull, but the only possible path to peace is the eradication of the insane, indoctrinated criminals, being grownin places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, saudi Arabia, etc.. World dominaton is not acceptable by these religious fanatics that recruit woman and children to blow themselves up. That is disgusting, but they rationalize it anyway. Pray for peace.

  • Posted By: Khalid662b @ 09/16/2008 12:01:05 AM

    Story only mention of Haqqani and his activities and claimed ISI connection. Where is report about Bait ullah Masood who on the instruction of INdia and American carrying out a delibrate war of terror against innocent Pakistani citizens. He has been intentionally kept out of story / report because he is an agent of India and USA and is creating difficult situation for Pakistani people and government. World needs to finish all terrorist and we must not have good terrorist and bad terrorist. all terrorist are bad for huminity.

  • Posted By: vampirestonez @ 09/15/2008 11:47:06 PM

    Who created the Taliban? The U.S This article just made me laugh thinking about how Newsweek had managed to "polish" one side on the coin. This article is against the minds set of hundreds and thousands across the globe as this just makes it more biased. This article hides the very fact that the common person on the street knows - U.S has lost the war both in Afghanistan and Iraq and now in order to show their citizens and the rest of the world that they are doing something productive, they have shifted their target to Pakistan. First it was Afghanistan and they (U.S) managed to raze it to the ground and people there now openly admit that they were better off under the Taliban rule than the U.S's Rule. Iraq got dragged in between and Saddam's issue was exploited by these very media and this in turn made people's attention divert towads Iraq and Saddam, that became a priority and bought the U.S more time. Now that they have openly admitted that the war isnt going the way they wanted to and that they arent doing well ... Guess what? Drag Pakistan now, exploit it all over the media and try to make people's thinking change ... Is there still an International Media left which actually presents both sides of the coin and supports the truth rather than carry the flag of American Propaganda. Who is responsible for this mess? The USA! Even majority Americans distrust their own government. Why is the Taliban and the rest in the lot getting stronger day? you bomb innocent people and wipe away their families, the survivors only have one set goal in life ... Revenge. Think about it.

  • Posted By: vampirestonez @ 09/15/2008 11:45:38 PM

    Who created the Taliban? The U.S This article just made me laugh thinking about how Newsweek had managed to "polish" one side on the coin. This article is against the minds set of hundreds and thousands across the globe as this just makes it more biased. This article hides the very fact that the common person on the street knows - U.S has lost the war both in Afghanistan and Iraq and now in order to show their citizens and the rest of the world that they are doing something productive, they have shifted their target to Pakistan. First it was Afghanistan and they (U.S) managed to raze it to the ground and people there now openly admit that they were better off under the Taliban rule than the U.S's Rule. Iraq got dragged in between and Saddam's issue was exploited by these very media and this in turn made people's attention divert towads Iraq and Saddam, that became a priority and bought the U.S more time. Now that they have openly admitted that the war isnt going the way they wanted to and that they arent doing well ... Guess what? Drag Pakistan now, exploit it all over the media and try to make people's thinking change ... Is there still an International Media left which actually presents both sides of the coin and supports the truth rather than carry the flag of American Propaganda. Who is responsible for this mess? The USA! Even majority Americans distrust their own government. Why is the Taliban and the rest in the lot getting stronger day? you bomb innocent people and wipe away their families, the survivors only have one set goal in life ... Revenge. Think about it.

  • Posted By: student - nabeha @ 09/15/2008 10:52:06 PM

    well i am pakistani and am aware with these conflicts between pakistan and USA.....
    I am student and just hope that peace is maintained b/w both countries because lose of human lives are not acceptable on others mistakes... pervaiz musharraf's resignation was the biggest loss for pakistan.

  • Posted By: student - nabeha @ 09/15/2008 10:49:30 PM

    well i am pakistani and am aware with these conflicts between pakistan and USA.....
    I am student and just hope that peace is maintained b/w both countries because lose of human lives are not acceptable on others mistakes... pervaiz musharraf's resignation was the biggest loss for pakistan.

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