Can it get any worse? Yes it can.The IDF will blow up every building, than the city, and than the people, or they can let the people in Gaza relocate to the West Bank, or to Egypt. Speaking of Egypt, if many years ago the Egyptian Pharoah didn't let the jews go with Moses, we wouldn't had that problem. Back in the present, Israel has a problem. The IDF cannot return to Israel unless they won it. They haven't. The Israeli government is already spliting over the invasion, and the atrocities that happened in Gaza. The government going to fall. Hamas going to win it, inside Gaza, or outside. Than Israel will have to answer to a high court for its crime against humanity. If we tried Hitler's generals for their atrocities against the jews in Germany,I don't why we don't try the Jews for their atrocities in Gaza. I dodn't see a difference to what the germans did to the jews, and now for what the jews are doing to the Palestinians.
Israeli forces advance deep into Gaza urban areas
Israeli forces advance deep into Gaza residential areas, fighting urban warfare
Jan 11, 2009
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Posted By: Getitout @ 01/11/2009 2:26:44 AM
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 01/14/2009 11:58:49 AM
No, there is a big difference. Hilter killed Jews en masse. The Israelis haven't committed genocide...they have, however, caused an exodus of half a million people.
I do wonder if there's a Israeli contingent that would secretly love it if they just gassed and burned all the Palestinians. Probably so.
However, anyone OUTSIDE of the situation can see that if Israel did that, every Muslim nation on Earth would declare war on them immediately. Israel's army, well-trained and equipped as it is, can't win that battle without nukes.
This is a bad scenario - and Israel has enough nukes to probably kill every person on Earth through nuclear winter.
Honestly, I will have no love for Israel unless they actually declare their own nuclear program. It's so ____ing sad to see them bitch about their enemies' nuclear programs when they secretly obtained 200 tons of yellowcake in Operation Plumbat....liars, man. And my country is too damn ignorant to know...most people in America don't know that, not only is it a nuclear power, it probably has somewhere between 150 and 300 MIRVed nuclear bombs at this point. They definitely don't know what MIRV does -if you want a rough analogy, consider a nuclear version of the cluster bombs Israel has been peppering Gaza with.
I sympathize with the nation of Israel over what was done to the Jews all in World War II. However, that doesn't give it the right to threaten to blow up the world. At least one Israeli political scientist has mentioned the possibility. I fully believe Israel's nuclear stockpile is possibly the biggest threat to the Earth, other than climate change maybe.
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Posted By: Contumacious @ 01/11/2009 9:01:52 AM
The Judeo-American Axis of Evil is determined to exterminate the Paleswtinians and steal their Land..Then they pretend not to know why the hate. The US has been financing the Palestinian ethnic genocide since 1948.
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Posted By: TheGardener @ 01/10/2009 9:42:13 PM
Tan Boon Tee. If these were the old days when communication took one year to reach, the fight would be long over. The UN is the culprit of many problems never solved. Leave the Middle East to solve its own itches. 40 years of this artificial nonsense that costs western taxpayers astronomical amounts is simply madness. Media stay out - UN stay out - let them fight it out. The brains aren't working for 40 years . The only language they understand is violence. Raw power. 'nough said.
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Posted By: Tan Boon Tee @ 01/10/2009 9:09:49 PM
The Middle-east has been suffering from the three-wise-monkey syndrome for decades ??? don???t hear, don???t see, don???t talk.
Israelis and Palestinians don???t hear when they do not want to hear the plea from the UN to cease fire; they don???t see when they refuse to see the carnage they have inflicted on the innocence; they don???t talk when they eschew negotiation for a peace plan.
When will the conflict end if both the parties continue to protect their self-interests adamantly? How could peaceful coexistence be realized if both the parties reject any compromise outright?
May sanity supersede suspicion and intolerance for the good of all.
(Tan Boon Tee)
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Posted By: Omaar @ 01/10/2009 8:50:41 PM
This is why Israel Attacked Palistine
WASHINGTON ??? President Bush deflected a secret request by Israel last year for specialized bunker-busting bombs it wanted for an attack on Iran???s main nuclear complex and told the Israelis that he had authorized new covert action intended to sabotage Iran???s suspected effort to develop nuclear weapons, according to senior American and foreign officials.
Skip to next paragraph
Enlarge This Image
Office of the Iranian President
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad tours the centrifuges at Iran???s underground complex at Natanz, a target of an expanded American covert program.
Multimedia
Iran???s Primary Nuclear FacilitiesMap
Iran???s Primary Nuclear Facilities
Related
The Worst Pakistan Nightmare for Obama (January 11, 2009)
Times Topics: Iran's Nuclear Program
David Silverman/Reuters
Last year, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel asked President Bush for bunker-busting bombs and permission to fly over Iraq to attack the plant.
White House officials never conclusively determined whether Israel had decided to go ahead with the strike before the United States protested, or whether Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel was trying to goad the White House into more decisive action before Mr. Bush left office. But the Bush administration was particularly alarmed by an Israeli request to fly over Iraq to reach Iran???s major nuclear complex at Natanz, where the country???s only known uranium enrichment plant is located.
The White House denied that request outright, American officials said, and the Israelis backed off their plans, at least temporarily.
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Posted By: Omaar @ 01/10/2009 8:48:33 PM
This is why Israel Attacked Palistine ...
They were Rejected by the USA in Bombing Iran.
Source: Reuters
WASHINGTON ??? President Bush deflected a secret request by Israel last year for specialized bunker-busting bombs it wanted for an attack on Iran???s main nuclear complex and told the Israelis that he had authorized new covert action intended to sabotage Iran???s suspected effort to develop nuclear weapons, according to senior American and foreign officials.
Skip to next paragraph
Enlarge This Image
Office of the Iranian President
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad tours the centrifuges at Iran???s underground complex at Natanz, a target of an expanded American covert program.
Multimedia
Iran???s Primary Nuclear FacilitiesMap
Iran???s Primary Nuclear Facilities
Related
The Worst Pakistan Nightmare for Obama (January 11, 2009)
Times Topics: Iran's Nuclear Program
David Silverman/Reuters
Last year, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel asked President Bush for bunker-busting bombs and permission to fly over Iraq to attack the plant.
White House officials never conclusively determined whether Israel had decided to go ahead with the strike before the United States protested, or whether Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel was trying to goad the White House into more decisive action before Mr. Bush left office. But the Bush administration was particularly alarmed by an Israeli request to fly over Iraq to reach Iran???s major nuclear complex at Natanz, where the country???s only known uranium enrichment plant is located.
The White House denied that request outright, American officials said, and the Israelis backed off their plans, at least temporarily.
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Posted By: hoosierbrad @ 01/10/2009 3:19:20 PM
Hamas has NEVER intended to negotiate with Israel in good faith, it only intends to destroy it, and would kill every Israeli, if given the chance.
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Posted By: Omaar @ 01/10/2009 8:47:11 PM
Borderline Bull-Spit !!!
Israel has Over [200 Illegally Obtained Nuclear Weapons] Military, Biological & Chemical Weapons...
How in Palistine going to Kill Every Israeli...A!! Hole
This Lone Defenseless Little nation FRAUD is getting OLD.
No Arab Country is going to Rid the Middle East of Israel...Period
So you can STOP justifying the Mass Killings of Defenseless People, who cannot Compete against the Odds noted above.
You People are something else
Justifiy Mass Murder, when the World is Scraeming and saying...
Your'e Dead Wrong and we don ot AGREE on your Military Bullying and Might over a Inferior Group, like the Palistinians
Pick on a country or pick a Fight with Equal Military Capabilities...
Israel won't, they are attacking Palistine based on not getting the US Assistance to Strike and Bomb Iran.
What a Cowardly Act
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Posted By: hembez @ 01/10/2009 3:53:57 PM
first we have to know that mr khaled has the right when he said that isreal is the side who have the control of this war at all beacuse isreal who began the attacks so it have to stop it .
secound if we talk about the rockets that cames from hamas side it just began when isreal start to kill all people on ghaza by puting them in a big jail with no food no oil no life for more than 1 year .
third of u can see its a war from one side hamas just make a self deffense with few weapons
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Posted By: AnHourADay @ 01/10/2009 4:09:32 AM
The ignored UN resolution for cease fire is easily understood, in my opinion. For a cease fire to happen there are two possible scenarios:
1) Israel stops shooting
and
2) Hamas looses enogh soldiers/weapons to give up
Number one isn't completely impossible because of the Israeli prime minister's diplomacy, but the elections are far too close for a sacrifice in civilians, since Palestine isn't really a country or a nation they could just ignore the resolution and keep firing . Such a move would be strongly criticized internally. Scenario number two is not completely impossible, but will not happen any time soon, because of all the funding. The necessities are a cease fire, but Hamas must play by the rules and stop rocket fire in peace time, and a new Israeli government capable of dealing with Palestine. The humorous detail in my opinion though, is the extent of UN power.
http://anhouraday.blog.com
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Posted By: aryo widiyanto @ 01/09/2009 10:52:05 PM
We Hope War is Over soon and peace created between Israel and Palestine , There is question in Indonesian people, Why so many arab countries can not help the children in Palestine, Children is Innocent, Why they Killed them?. Where is the Love ?. Comment from Aryo Widiyanto Journalist Of Tabloid Barometer Kendal, Central Java Indonesia
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Posted By: n83nbu @ 01/06/2009 1:35:21 AM
As the Israeli invasion kills women and children, may God protect the poorly equipped Palestinians as they fight for the land that is rightfully theirs - against one of the strongest, most technically advanced, and most brutal armies of the world. May David slay Goliath once again - and may the world express righteous outrage at an invasion, that in many respects, resembles Hitler???s invasion of the countries bordering Germany during WWII. If only these countries had shown the courage and fortitude the Palestinians are showing!
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/06/2009 1:59:20 PM
" - and may the world express righteous outrage at an invasion, that in many respects, resembles Hitler???s invasion of the countries bordering Germany during WWII. If only these countries had shown the courage and fortitude the Palestinians are showing!"
Yes, yes, because we all know the Sudatenland fired 6000 rockets into Germany before Hitler lost his temper.
Wanker.-
Posted By: newtral @ 01/07/2009 3:51:38 AM
Yes horrible Bastard, You are happy to see children, mothers and innocent murdered in the name of self defense as Mr. Bush call it? Live with it. There are thousands of alternative to deal with the thousands of rockets that is less than one percent accuracy.
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/07/2009 11:56:49 AM
Name one.
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Posted By: newtral @ 01/08/2009 12:21:15 AM
Treat the palestinians as human then that summarizes all.
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/09/2009 12:08:47 PM
Okay. They're humans firing rockets. Israel has the right to hit back.
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Posted By: atul10in @ 01/07/2009 11:00:29 PM
Israel is the promised land of the Jews. Judaism existed long before Christianity and definitely before Islam. So now we have this great talk of "stealing of land happening here" A religion like Islam that was based on stolen text of Torah and Bible can hardly claim originality. The problem is with the followers of Islam that follow the poisonous book. And Hamas is chosen by people which is firing rockets, if it is hiding withing a small belt of civilian population then they will bear the brunt too. We all pay for our decisions we take in our life. Israel should uses all its force for every damage that Hamas inflicts. Palestinians should respect other lives and rights, They must remember Jews came first.
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Posted By: epryor @ 01/08/2009 10:04:12 AM
Actually, the Phoenicians, philistines and Canaanites came first in that area. And anyway the bible isn???t original either. Just look at the similarities between the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Noah story. The Noah story is taken directly from this ancient Babylonian story that existed long before Genesis. And actually Christianity has pagan influence. The Holy Trinity, for instance was said to be an attempt to make Christianity more palatable to the Gentiles, who liked to serve multiple gods. In addition, the Jesus story is remarkable similar to the story of Horus in Egyptian mythology. As far as Islam being a poisonous book, just look at the Bible---Murder, stealing, and more murder. I???ll bet you don???t even know any Muslims because if you did, you wouldn???t have made that statement. Re-read the story of Jericho, it???s sort of similar to what happened 60 years ago.
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Posted By: IvyNYC @ 01/05/2009 12:07:47 PM
How about keeping in mind that Israeli's are occupying land that was held by Palestinians for thousands of years? While there are no words to describe the horrific events of the Holocaust, it do not give Israel the right to hide behind the claim of anti-semetism as justification for all of their actions going forward. Just because non-Israeli's denounce something that Isreal does, does NOT make them anti-semetic.
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Posted By: factsearcher @ 01/05/2009 12:18:34 PM
Did you all know that the word Palestine is not even an Arab or Muslim word?
Palestine is a derivative of the word ''Philistine'' which happens to be a Roman word. The Romans renamed Israel just to infuriate the Jews off when they took Israel from the Jews...which so happens to be LONG BEFORE there ever was a Muslim. Islam was not created until 712 A.D. by Mohammed. I hate to tell these muslim terrorists....but ISRAEL existed LONG before there was even such a thing as a Muslim or ISLAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So you want to come again on how the Israel''s have taken this land from the Arab Muslims????
Oh and by the way...the land is now called Palestine by the Arab world because they could not pronounce the word ''Philistine'' and therefore always called it Palestine.-
Posted By: epryor @ 01/06/2009 11:16:06 AM
We are not talking ancient history. We are talking within the last 60 years. A whole people displaced, their homes taken, demolished, their land gone. They are discriminated against in their own land. They are not allowed to own land and are treated like second class citizens. Explain this from G-d's chosen people. It is simply a land grab and it always has been. Now they eat dirt while Europeans live it up on their land and in their houses and on their farms. The memories of their homes still in their head. Israel is angry because the Palestinians elected Hamas, and so since they are not satisfied with the results they attack. Isreal had an agreement not to attack and to open up its borders. They did not open the borders and they broke the cease fire. Genocide is happening right now on American tax dollars and the world is silent. Iran and other extremists may be "talking" about wiping Israel off the map, but Israel is actually wiping Gaza off the map, destroying police stations and other important infrastructure needed to maintain order. Shame on them. And if you want to go into ancient history, the Israelites stole the land of Israel from the Canaanites, you see, it was Canaan before it was Israel.
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/06/2009 2:01:05 PM
What's your solution, epryor? Turf the Israelis out?
If so, be prepared to move, yourself. What you desribed is precisely what happened to the American Indians.-
Posted By: epryor @ 01/06/2009 4:33:17 PM
My solution may not work, but It would seem reasonable for the Isrealis to abandon their dream of a totally Jewish state and allow the Palestinians to become full citizens with representation in the government.
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/07/2009 11:57:30 AM
Palestinians can and do become citizens.
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Posted By: newtral @ 01/08/2009 12:25:40 AM
If israel can allow the palestinians to become an israeli citizen with equal rights then thats one of the best solution, but i doubt it. Israelis will become a minority.
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Posted By: epryor @ 01/07/2009 4:20:32 PM
Can they buy or lease land in Israel?
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/06/2009 2:05:43 PM
Bollocks. The Philistines were a neighboring tribe of the Israelis long before the Romans showed up.
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Posted By: mjkoch @ 01/06/2009 9:03:52 AM
What is wrong with Israel??
Don't the Israelis know that they are supposed to sit back and do nothing when six thousand rockets are launched against their schools, homes, hospitals, supermarkets, cities and towns?
Don't the Israelis know that when Hamas sends suicide bombers onto Israeli busses, into Israeli shopping malls and restaurants and supermarkets that the Israeli men, women, and children that are being blown to pieces should die without protest from the Israeli government and people?
How dare Israel have the nerve to want to protects its citizens from terrorists bent on its destruction?
By the rationale posted by some commentators on this website if you strike back at terrorists hell bent on your destruction, people who celebrate the death of every Israeli child they murder, then by striking back at the terrorists you are guilty of human rights violations. Let these fools move to Sderot and Ashkelon and endure the daily rocket attacks on THEIR families and see how they respond. These same leftists criticize Israel for protecting its citizens and blame America for 911. I guess Hitler and Stalin could be excused as well for the millions they killed. After all, Britain and America destroyed, not bombed, but destroyed entire cities in WWII. The left always blames the victims of terror and never the perpetrators.-
Posted By: saggia @ 01/06/2009 6:37:14 PM
There are ways to deal with relatively harmless rockets, and extermination isn't one of them. Israel has blockaded Gaza since 2006 because it didn't like the results of the democratically held elections. Blockade is an act of war, and this alone would justify the rockets. Or maybe people would prefer that 1.5 million Palestinians starve in silence? Then, Israel broke the cease-fire between June and Dec. 2008. This again attests to Israel's bad faith negotiating. The fact is, the Occupation (which still hasn't ended in Gaza) is the root of this crisis--when you steal people's land, they're going to fight back, sometimes with rockets.
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Posted By: atul10in @ 01/07/2009 9:54:47 PM
Israel was the promised land of the Jews. ISlam didnot exist. Mohammad steals the torah and shifts Qibla from Palestine to Mecca and now wants Jews to leave their right to live in it. Any defence of the a foolish argument that Hamas rockets are innocent and Israeli rockets are rogue and when you kill three of my people I reserve the right to kill you too. If ordinary civilians were against Hamas they would have not voted them to pwer. Palestinians asked for this war. They got it. Long live Israel and AMerica. This Quran is the problem based on lies and deception.
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Posted By: atul10in @ 01/07/2009 9:53:33 PM
Israel was the promised land of the Jews. ISlam didnot exist. Mohammad steals the torah and shifts Qibla from Palestine to Mecca and now wants Jews to leave their right to live in it. Any defence of the a foolish argument that Hamas rockets are innocent and Israeli rockets are rogue and when you kill three of my people I reserve the right to kill you too. If ordinary civilians were against Hamas they would have not voted them to pwer. Palestinians asked for this war. They got it. Long live Israel and AMerica. This Quran is the problem based on lies and deception.
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Posted By: newtral @ 01/07/2009 3:45:13 AM
mjkoch: Lot of things is wrong with israel. Disproportionate responses which are intentional to kill as many as they can and mostly children, mothers and innocents. You can call this a self defense? or a cold blooded mass murder?
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Posted By: saggia @ 01/06/2009 6:40:35 PM
There are ways to deal with relatively harmless rockets, and extermination isn't one of them. Israel has blockaded Gaza since 2006 because it didn't like the results of the democratically held elections. Blockade is an act of war, and this alone would justify the rockets. Or maybe people would prefer that 1.5 million Palestinians starve in silence? Then, Israel broke the cease-fire between June and Dec. 2008. This again attests to Israel's bad faith negotiating. The fact is, the Occupation (which still hasn't ended in Gaza) is the root of this crisis--when you steal people's land, they're going to fight back, sometimes with rockets.
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Posted By: Getitout @ 01/07/2009 5:00:02 PM
Let me get something straight over here. Israel open a 3 hours corridor in Gaza for humanitarian supplies to reach the affected areas. Israel has said that Hamas is launching Rockets from civillian areas. Does Israel can tell the difference between a Hamas and a regular Palestinian. I doubt it very much. Anybody could have used that corridor, Hamas could have taken supplies. What Israel doing, feed them, heal them than shoot them.
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Posted By: capealava @ 01/07/2009 1:29:29 PM
Israel should continue it's offensive until Hamas is destroyed or all this will be for nought. 1 year or 2 years from now the rockets will be flying again. Destroy Hams now
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Posted By: epryor @ 01/07/2009 4:01:39 PM
You can't fight extremism with an army. We are learning this in Iraq. They don't wear uniforms, don't have clearly marked bases and they hide in the civillian population. This offensive will not destroy Hamas. For everyone they kill, a brother, a father, a cousin, a friend will join Hamas. Iran and others will re-arm them. This offensive is the best thing they could hope for. The Palestinians lost their land and are living in poverty and now THIS from G-d's chosen people? Phosphorus bombs?? Bombing Schools and police stations? They are getting worldwide support, public opinions is shifting in their favor. Jewish persons are being attacked all around the world. The moderate governments are looking weak to the rest of the Arab world for its willingness to work with Israel and the US. This is not only a catastrophy for them, but for us as well.
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Posted By: 771979 @ 12/29/2008 10:29:09 AM
Israel is not interested in peace because it contradicts its 'bullying her neighbour policy' and to capture illegally their lands. As long as the Zionist rule USA and Israel, peace is impossible in the ME. Israelis must understand that they live in the ME and not in the USA.
Peace in the ME can be achieved if we implement UN resolutions: 194, Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace. 242, Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area. Israel to withdraw its forces from land claimed in 1967 war. 446 determined that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and settlements in the occupied territories thus declared illegal. 497 decided that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith and finally 1559.-
Posted By: Zig Zag @ 01/01/2009 2:43:11 PM
Perhaps it is because the Israel definition of peace does not include allowing your neighbors to fire rockets and mortars at your cities.
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Posted By: newtral @ 01/04/2009 5:51:24 AM
Zig Zag| The rockets and mortars that are being fired inside Israel that you always refer to in your comments is mostly symbolic of a resistance to an occupation and to get the attention of the world on what is going on in Gaza considering the very minimal damage tha it inflicts. That is exactly the reason why they will not stop those activities. anytime sooner. The comment of 771979 above is true and supported by facts. You need to educate yourself about history my friend.
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/07/2009 12:00:27 PM
They're still rockets and mortars.
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Posted By: tired and old @ 12/31/2008 4:22:20 PM
HEY ! 771979.
YOU CAN'T SEE CLEARLY, WHEN YOUR HEAD IS UP YOUR A S S !
GO ! ISRAEL
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Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 12/30/2008 12:31:17 PM
"Posted By: Jordanian @ 12/27/2008 2:31:07 PMTo Cybersavy: Do you know jews? You're the most ignoble people walking on earth. You're the killers of the messengers of the God. You're very dangerous to the humanity. You don't deserve to live. I can imagine the world without you, the jews, a place where the peace is all over the world. You're cowards. You can't fight face to face. You've stolen the land of Palestine not because you're braved people, but because the west want to get rid of you, and get rid of your evils"
Judging from that post, the Israelis would be fools to stop shooting.-
Posted By: tired and old @ 12/31/2008 4:15:30 PM
CHRIST !
I AGREE WITH HORRIBLE.-
Posted By: Horrible Bastard @ 01/07/2009 11:59:22 AM
Will wonders never cease?
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/27/2008 2:10:47 PM
I think it's occasionally worth it to remember that both America and Israel both established their modern nations by kicking a bunch of people right off their land, if anyone wonders why all these conflicts escalate and stay unresolved.
God forgive me for saying this, but I don't particularly recognize Hebrew divinity in a legal or national sense. I wish more people would remember that while Abraham is, in the Judeo-Christian tradition, the "father of a great nation" and the father of Israel, in a secular historical sense he was a Chaldean who led his people to a country where a bunch of people happened to be living already - the Filasteen, ancestors of the modern-day Palestinians. To the Palestinians it would have seemed like a bunch of outsiders were coming to invade and kill them and take their land - which was probably what it WAS, really, if you strip away all the claims of divinity from both sides.
I don't know what the right solution is, but in the West we have forgotten all of this history. There's no particular way to deny fact that Abraham came from outside Palestine and that the nation of Israel was established by expelling the natives from their land, whatever you feel about the rightness or wrongness of it. I don't have anything against the Jewish people, but this is history that shouldn't be ignored in trying to deal with this conflict.-
Posted By: dror ben ami @ 12/28/2008 2:39:45 PM
I think that you should remember that Palestine was conquered by the followers of Mohammed and the people living there at that time with either killed or forced to convert to Islam. Second, when Moses and his follower Joshua kicked the Canaanites off the land nobody seemed to complain. Finally: didn't the house of Faisel kick King Abdullah's family out of Mecca?
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Posted By: newtral @ 01/01/2009 2:42:58 AM
dror ben ami: you are wrong, PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH) never force anybody to convert to Islam. Islam means peace.
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Posted By: dror ben ami @ 01/01/2009 1:37:01 PM
Yes, Islam means peace. That's why the flag of saudi Arabia has two swords ! How did Islam expand to Spain, peaceful persuasion ?
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Posted By: newtral @ 01/07/2009 4:49:06 AM
Did you read history? Islam in spain live without forcing anybody to convert. Today, do you know that the fastest growing religion in the world is islam? May be right now, one of your relatives already converted. If islam is what the distorted image that some of your likes is true, then why millions are joining islam every year? Want some more? Read and educate yourself. I will not blame you if you become a muslim as well after reading.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/29/2008 9:47:57 AM
Look, Islam reveres Abraham as a saint too. It's an Abrahamic religion. I'm not trying to imply any of it is "right" or "wrong". My only point was that the tribe of Israel, historically, has never originated from the actual land of Israel. I don't particularly understand why Islam worships the father of a tribe that used to go after the land of their ancestors either...but I doubt most Palestinians go through all these mental twists and turns that I do, they know what they know, the Israelis do too, so...war, war, war.
All the history you mentioned affects the whole thing too. Let's get it all on the table. That's the whole point of what I was trying to get at, anyway...looking deeper than just the current situation.
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Posted By: burbank @ 12/28/2008 1:06:02 AM
Why is it that Israel's western allies "urge restraint" when Israel defends itself against attack, but says nothing about the hundreds of rocket attacks that have killed Israeli's. Where are the UN emergency meetings to discuss the Hammas rocket fire against innocent Israeli citizens? The hue and cry brought by the Arabs against Israel should instead be directed against their own who, with wanton abandon fire from behind the skirts of their women like the cowards they are. I feel no sorrow for the loss of arab civilians because thay have sold their souls to the devil for the violence and hatred that they preach. As you sow, so shall you reap.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/28/2008 10:11:44 AM
Yup, and so shall Israel reap what it's sown by taking over modern-day Palestine by violence and expelling 500,000 Palestinian civilians from the land they've lived on for thousands of years, the same way they themselves were expelled once in Roman times.
I'm one-sixteenth Lebanese, one-sixteenth Russian Jewish, and a smattering of other things. And I personally am sick of modern Israel's arrogance and insistence that the Palestinians ought to just "accept things" when the Jewish people did no such thing over the long term of their own diaspora. What would you do if someone had kicked you off your land and driven your people into exile? Wait...they did...to both your and my Jewish ancestors. And the Jewish people NEVER FORGOT THAT for thousands of years, and never lost their hope of retaking their old lands, and finally did, about sixty years ago. So what makes you anything less than a hypocrite for suggesting that the Palestinians should act in any other way?
Israel has a BAD tendency to suggest that the rules are somehow different for them than for anybody else, and increasingly it's not fooling a large segment of the world population.-
Posted By: Zig Zag @ 12/28/2008 3:32:09 PM
Funny, I was thinking the same thng about Hamas. Either you are at war or you are not. Hamas certianly believes it is - how else would you explain the continuous rocket and mortar attacks on Israel cities? So why the surprise and outrage when Israel responds? How do you think the U.S. would respond if miltants in Mexico fiired rockets and mortars at U.S. cities in California and Texas?
Israel is only doing what any nation would do in a similar situation. Hamas needs to decide either (1) they are at war and accept what that means or (2) they are at war but negotiate a cease fire and stick to it. This idea that they should be allowed to shell Israeli cities with immpunity is ridiculous. They need to get a clue - as does the rest of the Arab world.-
Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/29/2008 9:22:49 AM
I personally don't think Hamas/Hezbollah are doing anybody, anywhere, any favors, and no, I don't particularly think they ought to be able to shoot rockets wherever they like either. They lead Arab youth into a pointless war that has no hope of accomplishing anything positive and make those Arabs who are non-violent fall off the news media's radar almost completely - as Israel's hawks tend to do with non-violent Israelis as well, who I also see as being unfortunately dragged into the whole mess.
I do tend to understand their anger more easily than the Israeli position, whatever that says about me. That being said, yes, if they attack the Israelis, from a very realist point of view they need to accept that Israel is going to retaliate.
I am not particularly inclined to think that a military solution is a viable one for any of the parties in question.
As far as your final points, I don't necessarily agree that "the rest of the Arab world" needs to get a clue, but yes, I do agree that either Hamas and Hezbollah need to either stick to their cease-fires or just accept the consequences of war themselves. No, I don't think they should be given a free pass on blowing up whoever they like, and sorry if it seemed that way.-
Posted By: Zig Zag @ 01/01/2009 3:07:57 PM
Wow, that was a very articulate and well thought out response. Thank you.
When I say "the rest of the Arab world needs to get a clue", I am referencing the need to distinguish the difference between the actions of Hamas and the needs of the Palestinian people - which I don't think they do. If you are going to condemn Israel attacks on Gaza, then you must also condemn Hamas attacks on Israel. And it is possible to condemn the actions of Hamas without diminishing support for the plight of the Patestinian people. If the Arab world could find a way to do that - their credibility would be raised substaintially in the America and the West.
I partially agree that a military solution is not viablle, but only from a long-term perspective. But from a short-term prespective, if the Israel response can either stop the rocket and mortar attacks, or get the Palestinian people in Gaza to realize that the Hamas approach is not the answer, then I think it has its uses. I find the civilian casualties tragic, but it is an unfortunate fact of war that civilians get killed.
I believe things for the Palestinians in the West Bank are improving. I don't think the Palestinians will be happy with the time it is going to take to achieve the complete freedom they desire if the that time table is left solely to the discretion of Israel. But if they can reign in Hamas, stop the rockets, mortars, and suicide bombings - then I think there will be more of a united front on the part of the U.S. and Europe with respect to accelerating that time table.-
Posted By: newtral @ 01/07/2009 4:41:25 AM
Palestinians lives in the west bank are improving? May be if the gauge is the number of civilians slaughtered. As long as the main problem, the occupation is there, life will never be normal. Time will tell when they will also explode.
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Posted By: newtral @ 01/04/2009 6:04:07 AM
Zig Zag: Mexico is not occupied and is also a free country. Its people are not confined and restricted like the palestinians.
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Posted By: Vigilance @ 12/29/2008 10:04:23 AM
By the way, what's your opinion of the Palestinian exodus? Was it necessary and the Israeli actions justified? Why or why not?
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Posted By: Zig Zag @ 01/01/2009 4:06:45 PM
It is difficult to have an opinion, because there so many conflicting view points, which fall into two general categories - the Exodus was caused by Arab leaders wanting to "clear the field" for the war they knew was coming or the Exodus was the result of Zionists forcing Palestinians to leave. Personally, I think there is probably some truth to both.
Don't get me wrong, my support of Israel in this specific instance does not mean that I do not have sympathy for the Palistinians. I think the entire world has failed them. First, the UN failed them, by developing a partition plan knowing full well that none of its members were willing to make the committments necessary to enforce it. Second, that Jordan and Egypt failed them by not establishing some type of Palestinian homeland in the West Bank and Gaza Strip when they controlled those terrirories from 1948 to 1967. Third, they were failed by their own leadership during the Camp David Summit of 2000, when Israel agreed to hand over 97% of the disputed territory plus 3% of territory in Israel and Yasser Arafat refused to accept the deal.
The whole world has to take responsibility for this, which is why I have never been an adovate of the "let them fight it out" strategy that some people seem to advocate. You don't create a mess and walk away from it. I also think that both Israel and the Palistinians have to take responsibility for their history of intolerance and inability to compromise. A lot of this comes from their respective religious beliefs - when people think that something has been granted to them by God - that's when the lack of compromise reaches its peak, because to compromise is to defy the will of God. That is why I am such an advoate of the seperation of church and state.
So there is much work to be done in order for there to be peace. And if starts with stopping the rockets, mortars and bombs on both sides.
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Posted By: skeetchamp @ 12/29/2008 5:00:30 PM
A half-dozen nuts fire shoulder-launched rockets into Israel*. Repugnant.
Israel fires WW2 style bombs and missiles from fighter jets and tanks into a tiny landlocked town that has no army, killing babies and women -- calling it "Retaliation".
You hit some guy with a rock. He murders your entire family. Retaliation?
I supposed you COULD call it that. Just don't demand that I agree.-
Posted By: Zig Zag @ 01/01/2009 2:48:16 PM
Your analogy is just stupid. We are not talking about throwing rocks. Hamas' intent is to kill civilians with those rockets and mortars, the fact that they are not very accurate is immaterial.
Try not to be such an idiot in the future.-
Posted By: newtral @ 01/07/2009 4:34:52 AM
The fact that rockets by hamas were not very accurate and around less tha one percent accuracy is that it is symbolic of an occupation. They want the world to know of their situation in gaza. Something must be done to this big human prison. Ask yourself, can you live in that big prison and just stay silent?
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Posted By: vrhino @ 12/30/2008 8:00:23 AM
You don't coonsider the Hammas an army?
Oh wait - when they send one of their crazed idiots to blow himself up in a mall or on the street - the babies and women he kills are worth less than the babies and women killed in Gaza?
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