These shows all thrive on celebrating weirdness, so this is no real surprise. Sadly, they encourage abberant behavior in the young people who watch them.
TELEVISION
The New Transgender Reality
Reality shows have long pioneered inclusive casting. Now they're pushing the boundaries again.
Published Sep 17, 2008
Member Comments
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Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 09/17/2008 10:35:45 PM
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/18/2008 10:42:34 AM
If they celebrate weirdness and abberant behavior then your bigotry should fit right in.
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Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 09/18/2008 6:53:49 PM
People of your ilk are killing today's youth with your twisted, perverse, ever so permissive attitudes. When your 'tolerance' has a negative impact on children, then your 'tolerance' has gone too far.
You sound like a typical apologist for the weirdos that proliferate on reality TV.
If you are not a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Which you clearly are.-
Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/18/2008 7:41:33 PM
Children are not harmed by tolerance, they are harmed by your midless bigotry.
The funny thing I have never seen the show and it does nto interest me. I do not watch most of what is called "Reality TV" and have very little use for it. But on the odd occassion that it exposes society to the fact that LGBT are normal and deserve the same respect that everyone else does (regardless of what mindless fools say) then it may actually serve a useful purpose.-
Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 09/18/2008 8:01:11 PM
If you have never watched this garbage, then you obviously do not know what you are talking about, you are just spouting the usual left-wing nonsense that preaches tolerance and diversity and other wonderfully fuzzy topics that are basically meaningless.
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/19/2008 9:56:04 AM
One does not have to watch a show to debunk your statements that shows like this (or more specifically having transgenders and gay or lesbians on TV) harm our youth and damages society. The attitude that one has to watch a type of show to intelligently comment on the effect of having differnt type of people said type of program the show is one made by lesser minds, or more specifically minds that have limited scope. It is very easy to intelligently comment on general impact without watching the shows.
Diversity and tolerance are not "fuzzy topics". They are very real and societally beneficial ways of behaving. I would remind you that the same arguements against tolerance and diversity were spouted by those opposed to integration/civil rights, and by those who argued against the infux of LEGAL immigrants in the late 1800's and early to mid 1900's.-
Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 09/19/2008 8:50:59 PM
And I'll bet money you are all in favor of illegal immigrants coming to this country unchecked, and your 'tolerance' not doubt extends to "sanctuary cities" and other such nonsense.
And while you are at it, please explain to me the inherent value of 'diversity'. Better yet, even give me a clear definition. You can't, because it is simply a fuzzy code word of the brainwashed left-wing, of which you are clearly a part.-
Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/20/2008 10:01:52 AM
"And I'll bet money you are all in favor of illegal immigrants coming to this country unchecked, and your 'tolerance' not doubt extends to "sanctuary cities" and other such nonsense. "
Then you would lose your money.
"And while you are at it, please explain to me the inherent value of 'diversity'. Better yet, even give me a clear definition."
The inherent value is that diversity, which, in a society is having a wide range of different types of people (race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.) provides a wide range of viewpoints and allows for the free exchange of ideas which leads to societal growth and improvement. Also as a society becomes more diverse, the majority tend to realise that there are far moresimilarities thatn differnces among people. That is also beneficial. Of course there are still backwoods mentally limited people like you but even you serve a purpose to show the intelligent ones what to avoid and tro show the mindlessness that we are moving away from.-
Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 09/25/2008 8:54:11 PM
This nonsense you are spouting reads like something right out of a college sociology textbook. In other words, it is complete rot written by some drug-addled leftist who still thinks that it is 1969.
Newsflash, doucebag; the summer of love ended 39 years ago.-
Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/26/2008 9:43:45 AM
YAWWNN!
What I said is based on studies and ideas that are very recent. It is also based on simple reality, something you have shown no understanding of.
Just because your brain is stuck in the 1800's does not mean that the rest of us are that backwards.-
Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 09/26/2008 8:06:58 PM
So using your stellar logic, if it was written recently (and I never said it wasn't), it must be correct? You must be smoking crack.
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 10/03/2008 5:26:19 PM
"So using your stellar logic, if it was written recently (and I never said it wasn't), it must be correct? You must be smoking crack. "
I never said that at all. The fact that hey were written recently was in respone to your absurd comment about the studies reading like something out of a college text book and being written by "leftists" who think it is 1969. Those studies are probably correct because they were done by independent scientists who did not start their studies with preconceived notions (something you have proven incapable of understanding) . And that there are several such studies that support what I said.
And what many people are trying to do is not reliving the summer of love but trying to prevent people like you from creating the century of hate and incivility.
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Posted By: thundering @ 09/20/2008 8:26:46 PM
Also, in general, species that lack genetic diversity tend to die out relatively quick. If we as a society don't adapt to changing times then we shall certainly fall to those who do.
And besides, two heads are better than one purely because it doubles the information and perceptions; if the heads are the same then they are no better than one, no matter how many you have.
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/27/2008 9:03:41 AM
Not at all.
I am saying that there have several independent studies that support what I said, and that there have not been independent studies to refute it. You idea that since it may sound like something out of a college textbook that it must be from a left-leaning researcher who was on drugs and thinks that it is 1969 is not substantiated.
YOUR commments sound far more like someone whose mind (and I use that term loosely when talking about you) is drug or booze addled.
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Posted By: stormy1939 @ 09/18/2008 9:48:44 AM
As the proud (straight) Christian parent of a FTM transgender, I want to address a couple of issues. #1 - These people are not "freaks." They do not have "severe mental problems." They are people, just like you and me, flesh and blood, created in His image. #2 - This is not a conscious choice they make; this is something that takes far greater courage than I can even imagine, to change one's identity to the core. I admire them for that.
We need to stop making distinctions between ALL peoples; black, white, gay, lesbian, transgenders. Only until we can do this, our world will be a difficult place for someone stepping out of what we call the "norm."
My child was raised in a "normal" Christian home; he loves and believes in Jesus Christ's love for ALL humankind. And in that belief, he knows that as a "man," he is every bit a recipient of that love as he was as a woman.-
Posted By: tad1969 @ 09/18/2008 1:40:50 PM
Thank you for restoring my faith in the Christian world. As a lesbian and a daughter of a closeted homosexual dad (who was eventually alientatec by his roman catholic church) I have come to fear hearing a lot of comments from some of the more fundamentalists religions. Thank you Thank you Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity. Not that you care what I think, but congratulations for loving your child for who he is...as I believe that any one's Gods would expect!
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/18/2008 5:19:11 PM
What she has restored is a false perception of Christianity.... and I question her Christianity.... yes we should love our children.... but love demands that we tell them the truth and not give them false hope by tolerating their sinful lifestyle..... your dad is living in sin.... there is no other way around the situation....
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Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 5:47:36 AM
There are literally dozens if not hundreds of systems of belief that all interpret Jesus Christ, God, and the Bible in different ways that are all classified as and respected as forms of Christianity.
You either need to specify which form(s) of Christianity you are claiming her not to be, or argue against her morals themselves, otherwise your arguments and your reasoning behind them are moot points.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/22/2008 1:14:17 PM
You also need to know the definition of Fundamentalism -- refers to a "deep and totalistic commitment" to a belief in, and strict adherence to a set of basic principles (often religious in nature), a reaction to perceived doctrinal compromises with modern social and political life.
Christian origins
Fundamentalism as a movement arose in the United States, starting among conservative Presbyterian academics and theologians at Princeton Theological Seminary in the first decade of the Twentieth Century.[11][12] It soon spread to conservatives among the Baptists and other denominations during and immediately following the First World War.[11][12] The movement's purpose was to reaffirm orthodox Protestant Christianity and zealously defend it against the challenges of liberal theology, German higher criticism, Darwinism, and other "-isms" which it regarded as harmful to Christianity.[11][12]
The term "fundamentalism" has its roots in the Niagara Bible Conference (1878???1897) which defined those things that were fundamental to belief. The term was also used to describe "The Fundamentals", a collection of twelve books on five subjects published in 1910 by Milton and Lyman Steward[11][12] This series of essays came to be representative of the "Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy" which appeared late in the 19th century within the Protestant churches of the United States, and continued in earnest through the 1920s. The first formulation of American fundamentalist beliefs can be traced to the Niagara Bible Conference and, in 1910, to the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church which distilled these into what became known as the "five fundamentals":[13]
The inspiration of the Bible by the Holy Spirit and the inerrancy of Scripture as a result of this.
The virgin birth of Christ.
The belief that Christ's death was an atonement for sin.
The bodily resurrection of Christ.
The historical reality of Christ's miracles.
By the late 1910s, theological conservatives rallying around the Five Fundamentals came to be known as "fundamentalists."
Since then, the focus of the movement, the meaning of the term Fundamentalism, and the ranks of those who willingly use it to identify themselves, have gone through several phases of re-definition,[11][12] though maintaining the central commitment to its orthodoxy. -
Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/22/2008 1:10:33 PM
Why don't you read here post and then comment.... she did say "fundamentalists" and that is why I responded.... as I have pointed out in previous post.... your definition of organization or different interpretations of what is a Christian has to line up with the basic fundamental beliefs, doctrine, and history of what has been preached and taught for generations.... Now that some new wave of so-called Christianity is coming to the forefront we are suppose to abandon sound doctrine and embrace immorality as the norm? God forbid! .....
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/18/2008 4:57:09 PM
Maybe you haven't heard that God made them male and female.... to reject what God has made you is calling God a liar and you say that you are a Christian? Unbelievable!..... Jesus loves ALL humans but Jesus doesn't love what we humans do.... there is a fundamental difference in what Jesus stands for and what you want Him to stand for.... Love demands obedience and being disobedient is not loving God period.....
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Posted By: ew2177 @ 09/18/2008 5:20:01 PM
Even the first man and woman sinned and because of that we are ALL born into sin for which we must repent! Only the Beatitudes assign a reward for a specific virtue...in the eyes of God sin is sin, none worse than the other. Every day you breathe you sin, so be careful not to cast the first stone. Judgement day comes for all and failure to love your brother or sister unconditionally will cost you. Pray and ask God to forgive your judgemental spirit, then pray for your brothers and sisters!
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Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/18/2008 6:02:53 PM
You are ignorant to the Word of God.... read John 7:[24] Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. and then read Ezek.33
[1] Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[2] Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:
[3] If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
[4] Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
[5] He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
[6] But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
[7] So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.
[8] When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
[9] Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
[10] Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?
[11] Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
2Tim.4
[1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
[2] Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
[4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
The fable is the god that you think you represent isn't the God of the bible.... since you clearly misquote him to your own undoing and that of others..... as for praying for my brother and sisters .... I will leave you what Jesus said in Matt.12
[50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.-
Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 5:42:33 AM
Christianity, in its most literal sense, is generally defined as a belief system in that Jesus Christ was the son of God and that he died for our sins. You can try to argue, but name any belief system that fit those parameters and aren't technically considered Christian. Bojack, you have no support that your interpretation is the right one other than your own faith, and by challenging the faith of someone else you are utterly and purely disrespecting them as a human as well as a fellow theist.
People need to recognize the term "Christian" has a LOT of wiggle room, and they need to respect that.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/22/2008 12:35:53 PM
Not disrespecting just point out their beliefs is not supported by scripture.... also that their thinking is not using scriptures as a plumbline
Amos.7
[7] Thus he shewed me: and, behold, the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand.
[8] And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more:
In other words I'm using scripture to measure what on says is the belief of God versus what is actually written in the word of God... Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Christianity doesn't have alot of wiggle room as you say and no where in scripture you can support that saying.... the basic fundamentals of the Christian faith are neccessary.... but when one doesn't use the bible (those who call themselves Christians and those who refer to the bible to support their claims) as the the final arbitrator ..... -
Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/22/2008 12:18:10 PM
Bojack, you have no support that your interpretation is the right one other than your own faith, and by challenging the faith of someone else you are utterly and purely disrespecting them as a human as well as a fellow theist.
People need to recognize the term "Christian" has a LOT of wiggle room, and they need to respect that.
2Cor.11
1. [4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Gal.1
[1] Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
[2] And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
[3] Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
[4] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
[5] To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[6] I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[7] Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
[10] For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. -
Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/22/2008 12:17:31 PM
Comment: Christianity, in its most literal sense, is generally defined as a belief system in that Jesus Christ was the son of God and that he died for our sins. You can try to argue, but name any belief system that fit those parameters and aren't technically considered Christian.
Christians "without Christ":
This is a group of churches that may call themselves Christians, use the Bible as their Sacred Scripture, and may even have the name of Christ in the title of their church... but they say that "Jesus is not God", or that Jesus Christ is god as much as you and I are god, like the Mormons.
- Mormons. The Church of Jesus Christ of the of Latter-day Saints, Book of Mormon
- Jehovah's Witnesses. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society
- Moonies. Unification Church - The Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity, Sun Myung Moon
- New Age
- Christian Science Church.
- Church of Scientology.
- Church Universal and Triumphant.
- Children of God, Family of Love.
- Worldwide Church of God, of Armstrong.
- Spiritualism, Spiritualistic Churches, Spiritism.
- Unitarian Church
- Universalism
- Unitarianism... Universalism.
- Unity School of Christianity
- Socinianism
http://www.religion-cults.com/Cults/Christian/C-CULTS.htm
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Posted By: ew2177 @ 09/18/2008 5:20:00 PM
Even the first man and woman sinned and because of that we are ALL born into sin for which we must repent! Only the Beatitudes assign a reward for a specific virtue...in the eyes of God sin is sin, none worse than the other. Every day you breathe you sin, so be careful not to cast the first stone. Judgement day comes for all and failure to love your brother or sister unconditionally will cost you. Pray and ask God to forgive your judgemental spirit, then pray for your brothers and sisters!
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Posted By: KS123 @ 09/18/2008 11:26:59 AM
"Judge-photographer Nigel Barker is impressed by her seemingly innate modeling savvy. But it's not innate, of course. It's rehearsed. Where the other girls in the competition take their beauty and mannerisms for granted, Isis doesn't. She had to work for them. Her gender transition isn't a liability in the competition, it's an asset."
That paragraph made me cringe...Isis's mannerisms are innate too...not rehearsed....she is a FEMALE in a man's body...that is what being transgendered is. Being the mother of a trans child who was bilogically born male and now lives as the girl she ALWAYS told us she was...her feminine mannerisms were apparrent and innate in toddler years.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/18/2008 4:50:26 PM
Maybe you should have told your child that HE was a male and HIS mannerism is inappropriate and unacceptable to be effiminate. God is not the author of confusion ........ Selah!
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/18/2008 7:37:15 PM
Bojack,
Go back under your rock.
God is not part of the equation.
Nature made their children one gender on the outside and another on the inside. Luckily nature also provided a way, through science and medicine to correct the error and make the outside the same as the inside.
Luckily science does not kowtow to religious fools.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/19/2008 9:52:41 AM
Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/18/2008 7:37:15 PM
Comment: Bojack,
Go back under your rock.
God is not part of the equation.
God is in every equation or he is not God... especially since God is Sovereign....
Nature made their children one gender on the outside and another on the inside. Luckily nature also provided a way, through science and medicine to correct the error and make the outside the same as the inside.
Through science and medicine!! this is natures way.... or is it man's way to change and alter what God has designed from the beginning? I have a newsflash for you.... GOD DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES....
Luckily science does not kowtow to religious fools.
Science is based upon facts not trying to change the obvious according to one's personal decisions of rejecting that which is true...-
Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/19/2008 10:06:20 AM
Bojack,
"God is in every equation or he is not God... especially since God is Sovereign...."
Maybe god is soveriegn for you since he only exisit in your minds, but god is not soveriegn for me or for the world. And god is definitely not part of this equation since god created nothing. God was created by man.
"Through science and medicine!! this is natures way.... or is it man's way to change and alter what God has designed from the beginning? I have a newsflash for you.... GOD DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES...."
Bigger news flash for you. God does not exist outside of your mind so god does not MAKE or design anything.
"Science is based upon facts not trying to change the obvious according to one's personal decisions of rejecting that which is true..."
Since being transgendered is what is true (that one is one gender on the outside and another gender [one's real gender] on the inside then science is dealing wiht facts. It is not changing the obvious but correcting things to the obvious. Since there is no "creator god", (there is a created god), god is not part of the equation.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/19/2008 11:38:05 AM
Since being transgendered is what is true (that one is one gender on the outside and another gender [one's real gender] on the inside then science is dealing wiht facts.
Trangendered is what it is .... a confusion of the mind, and mental failure to deal with factual evidence, a rejection of normality...... If one thinks that they are superman, is stronger than a locomotive, able to leap buildings in a single bound, faster than a speeding bullet.... but when put to test they realize that their body is not capable to do these things... now they want to use science and medicine into tricking the bodies basic functions to obtain something that they are incapable of doing on their own.... this is a distrotion of truth..... We lock-up crazy people who think they are something that they are not .... and now you are here endorsing that we embrace the self-mutilation of the body as well as the mind through drugs and Hitler type experiments.... since you have rejected God as being the creator and have embrace the lunacy of science and medicine being His replacement.... you are right in saying that there is a created god..... you have created him in your own mind and scriptures warns of this...
Rom.1
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
It is not changing the obvious but correcting things to the obvious. Since there is no "creator god", (there is a created god), god is not part of the equation.-
Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/19/2008 4:32:57 PM
"Trangendered is what it is .... a confusion of the mind, and mental failure to deal with factual evidence, a rejection of normality"
Science has shown that the overwhelming majority of transgendered people have chromosonal markers for the gender they are surgically changed to. Although they may need testosterone or esterogen to affect the outer changes their bodies are not purely one gender or the other at birth. The confusion of the mnd is not an illness or mental failure, it is an internal alignment with what they are supposed to be. It is not a rejection fo normality but a seeking out of what is supposed to be their normal state.
"...... If one thinks that they are superman, is stronger than a locomotive, able to leap buildings in a single bound, faster than a speeding bullet.... but when put to test they realize that their body is not capable to do these things..."
A totally void analogy. A transgendered person's body is quite capable of being what they KNOW they are supposed to be.
"Now they want to use science and medicine into tricking the bodies basic functions to obtain something that they are incapable of doing on their own.... this is a distrotion of truth"
Bull. It is a achievemnt of thier true selves.
"and now you are here endorsing that we embrace the self-mutilation of the body as well as the mind through drugs and Hitler type experiments.."
The minute you evoke Hitler you asdmit you are wrong. It is not self-mutilation it is self-actualization.
"since you have rejected God as being the creator and have embrace the lunacy of science and medicine being His replacement.... you are right in saying that there is a created god..... you have created him in your own mind and scriptures warns of this..."
That makes no sense. Since I know that there is no god I have no need to create one. Scriptures, just more garbage. The NT authors knew that there would be intelligent people so they wrote text to discount those wise peoplewho saw beyond the curtain of thier made-up deity. And they hoped the fools that followed the text verbatim woulid fall for it. You fell for it.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/19/2008 6:04:05 PM
This Chromosonal marker you have describe is at the very least controversial... counting chromosons it not 100% accurate and relying on the belief that one thinks that they are a female when their muture genitals say otherwise is a mental problem.... one thing this report doesn't say is that if a man is transformed into a woman (can he have a baby)..... not like the women who demonstrated that she was a women all along but living as a man and then having a baby only proves that she is mentally wrong in her decision to live as something that she is not a MAN!...
Is this what you call self-actualization? To actual realize that her body was design to carry a child and give birth to one is reality coming back and slappinf HER in the face that she is indeed a woman...
So is the transgendered body ready to produce a child if a man turns into a woman or is that woman ready to father a child with a woman (meaning produce sperm) by being the instrument to get her pregnant the natural way?
We all worship one way or another.... your god could be knowledge, yourself, science, or nature.... whatever views that you hold to be true you make them your god! As for attacking what you have rejected (the bible) will only give account to the scriptures that they are true especially in
Pss.14
[1] The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.-
Posted By: thundering @ 09/20/2008 4:51:45 AM
Who's to say that the problem with transgendered people is mental? Who's to say that whatever force you attribute their mental deviancy didn't affect their body instead?
A person can smile when they are truly sad and cry when they are truly happy. I don't see people's reasoning behind their firm belief that physical form is the be-all, end-all representation of identity.
I don't claim to know any of the answers, but would like to know why other people on all sides of the issue seem to do so with such certainty.-
Posted By: bojack27 @ 09/22/2008 12:49:05 PM
There are only certain things that happen in the body that will control the mind.... pain and pleasure..... Now you are suggesting that what has happen to this person physically has cause them to want to go through a drastic transformation.... I say the opposite is the reason... physically these people have the genetials of one sex (physical) and they fell like they are another sex (mental) so there mental overrides the physical evidence that suggest a different thought pattern than the one the have.... If we based every decision on how we feel then this world would be even more messed up than it already is....
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Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 6:07:52 AM
Okay.. I can respect that people choose to tell their children who to have sex with and who they can marry, and that they choose to tell their children their physical gender when there is any confusion, but I cannot respect people telling their children what and what not to like doing! Where does it say that a male being effeminate is wrong, or that a female can't be masculine? In a vacuum, are those sins within themselves?
Lets say there is a man who is a devout Christian who follows his Bible to the T, who's never had a homosexual thought enter his pure and God-loving mind. When he walks he lightly swings his hips and sort-of glides, not unlike a stereotypical female walk. He enjoys fashion and cooking, and would rather watch Martha Stuart than the football game on TV. Is this man going to hell? Has he sinned? If so tell me where it says this behavior and its ilk is against God.-
Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 6:14:41 AM
Let me be more specific:
Where are masculinity and effeminacy defined other than in society? Other than women being child-bearers and husband-carers, and men being providers and protectors, what is defined in the Bible in reference to gender roles?
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Posted By: littlelaurie2 @ 09/18/2008 5:22:30 PM
My beautiful 15 year old daughter, Devon, is also MTF transgender. This cruel twist in her life is amazingly met with courage and grace ~ far more than I could muster in her shoes. Devon loves Top Model and we were absolutely thrilled to see Isis on the show, giving all the other gals a run for their money. She is quiet yet honest about her transgender and for that, she deserves one hell of a medal! Bravo Tyra, bravo!!!
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Posted By: observer101 @ 09/20/2008 9:31:08 PM
Reality? Huh?..These shows are set up and promoted by sickos wanting to shock and awe ppl into watching... Buying into this is "reality" is a bad example for our youth...No you are not going to win a million bucks for back stabbing, lying or out lasting...You are not in the Real World by living w/ social outcasts that sleep w/ eachother in luxurious town homes or houses....You are not going to get a high paying job by making an ass out of yourself, or go on wonderful dates in the Bahamas w/ 50 of your potential wives/ husbands and live happily ever after... They may be entertaining to watch but they are far from REALITY!... As for transgendered ppl?..They are fooling noone. A woman doesnt have manly hands, and a man doesnt have feminine hands...One would have to be a true dumbass to not be able to tell by the persons attitude, voice, lack of birthing hips, jawline and five o clock shadow, that shes a dude. And vice versa!
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Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 4:34:33 AM
Humans are supposed to have 5 toes on each foot, right?
So obviously all those "people" that are born with 6 (or, God forbid, 7), aren't human at all. They are sick *** with serious mental issues; they think that they are people, too, and that they deserve to be treated the same They are obviously physically different than us, and we can all tell they are not human because humans have 5 toes on each foot while these... things have 6. Some even go as far as getting surgeries to change their bodies to represent how they think they should be; human.
It's disgusting that liberal media is putting these freaks on their shows, exposing them and their ***-up mental issues to our children. They're not fooling anyone, and they should just suck it up and realize that they just aren't human; just like God made them.-
Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 4:52:15 AM
Oh, I totally agree, thundering. Physical form ALWAYS presides over mental and spiritual identity and basic self-awareness. My husband lost his arm in a car accident, and even after it was gone his mind kept telling him that there should be two. He claimed he had "phantom pains" and that when he wasn't looking he sometimes thought his arm was still there, but I knew that he was just disillusioned and immediately recognized this serious mental illness. It reached a low point when he sought help from a doctor to receive a fake arm. I almost kicked him out of the house when I found out, but then when I found out the doctor supported the idea of these fake limbs I became furious. How can people be so ignorant? He has ONE ARM! Despite what these immoral, Godless people think, changing yourself to reflect who your mind knows your are is sick and foul.
I told him to just suck it up and realize that he isn't human anymore, because God intended humans to have two arms, and he's not fooling anyone... he only has one arm.-
Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 5:05:47 AM
Starting to get my point observer101 (and others)? In both these cases, their bodies don't reflect who they know they are and how they should be and look.
I am not saying that I am right, or that anyone else is wrong... there is no concrete evidence, scientific or religious, that says that transgendered people are the way they are purely because of mental issues.
In the end it comes down to the chicken or the egg... which defines our identity: our bodies or our mental perception/consciousness/self awareness? I tend to lean towards the latter because it is one of the differentiating factors that makes us inherently "human" as opposed to just another animal*, while physically we are a hop and a skip away from other primates. But whose to say I am right or that anyone else is wrong? It's my opinion and I don't try to push it on other unwilling peopoe.
Don't think I forgot about dolphins, but that is besides the point right now ;D.-
Posted By: observer101 @ 09/21/2008 1:17:04 PM
What in the hell does that have to do with my comment on "reality" t.v.?..Gay, straight, changed gender wise doesnt matter...My point was on "reality" t.v....Sad thing is you would watch it to see what happens to the transgen good or bad outcome..Just remember...Its NOT REALITY! P.S. I DO have a brother, who one day came out of his room after keeping himself in there w/ the internet for months at a time and proclaimed he wanted to be a she....He went so far as to try to castrate himself...He grew his hair long, put on nails, wears dresses and shops for womens clothes...To me he is still a he...I refer the him as such..I dont love him anyless but I remind him that IM NOT changing my mind about who he is or was..And he accepts that fact...I still call him by his birth name...Point is a person is still the same person no matter what persona they want ppl to see them as.. He is not a girl, wasnt born a girl, and no matter what he does will never be a girl.
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Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 9:10:17 PM
First of all, I don't have to mention every part of your post if I choose not to. And that was directed only partially at you, others have posted similar and more forceful arguments.
But my point still stands. What makes physical any more real than mental (reality itself can't be proved as it is purely based on perception, anyways), yes they were born as and always will be physically linked to their physical gender, but people don't seem to be respecting a human's power to be self-aware and have an identity outside of their physical form.
Again, I make no claim that I am right or anyone else is wrong, but I merely question people's reasoning in order to better understand the issue myself, and maybe have other people to look at and question their own beliefs. So they can know why they believe something for themselves, and not because their parents told them or something like that.
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Posted By: briannaaustin @ 09/19/2008 5:12:45 PM
People all have opinions and then look for ways to support it. The issue at hand is that as human beings we need to tolerate one another, meaning that all the beleiveres need to tolerate those they don't understand or want to accept, and everyone else has to tolerate the "beleivers." The minute one group gets to decide the rules thenm we're right back to the SAlem Witch ttriles/ GET A GRIP PEOPLE!
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Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 5:28:24 AM
Unfortunately for your argument the way democracy works is that the a single group does get to make the rules, the majority.
If those rules are intolerable you can either move, or you can stay and fight the never-ending battle of becoming the majority on an issue, but either way you have to respect the majority's judgment in its jurisdiction..
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Posted By: briannaaustin @ 09/19/2008 5:09:12 PM
The religious and the none can argue this topic for light years and never agree. The point that the "believers" miss is that everyone is entitled to pursue their lives, which, means not only do you have to tolerate people for whom you don't, or can't, or won't understand or accept, but the rest of us all have to tolerate you. There doesn't have to be a right or wrong on these issue, there can be an agreement to disagree. or not,
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Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 5:16:02 AM
I imagine (and I am no expert) most religious peoples' feelings on that idea is something along the lines of:
I believe that that lifestyle is destructive and dangerous. I want to keep myself and my kids safe from being influenced by it.
It is equivalent to if alcohol were being drunk in excess by everyone including children, daily (these issues are that concrete of a danger to many people). Would you let your child partake, or even be in an environment that seemingly promotes it as normal as well as glamorous?
That is why they fight to make it unacceptable, as opposed to letting everyone else do it, because it doesn't just affect the individuals; it affects the society and environment they reside in.-
Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 5:21:07 AM
and that is why there can't be an agreement to disagree, unless that agreement included partitioning the country into isolated zones where certain things were absolutely acceptable and others absolutely weren't...
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Posted By: briannaaustin @ 09/19/2008 5:15:18 PM
Isis may be difficult for some people to understand, but attacking her at diluted or sick etc. is way off base. The girl has shown a lot of heart, and a lot of class. I would take her as a neighbor ahead of many of the so called "normal" people out there. All you high horse rself rightous know-it-alls should look into your own lives instead of worrying about, and critisizing everyone else.
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Posted By: observer101 @ 09/20/2008 9:32:02 PM
Him!
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Posted By: Amy Lomasney @ 09/18/2008 7:34:13 AM
These people have severe mental problems and to exploit it on tv is a very sad situation.
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Posted By: thundering @ 09/20/2008 8:52:01 PM
What proof do you have that makes you so sure the problem is mental? Where is the concrete evidence, be it from science or religion, that these people's minds are the issue as opposed to the flesh? How can you so surely belittle the power of self-awareness, one of the few things that differentiates us from mere animals? ...except the dolphins, they appear to have self-awareness as well, but that is besides the point.
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Posted By: thoushaltnothate @ 09/18/2008 8:39:46 AM
The only mental problems they have are caused by the people who mistreat them, taunt them, try to make them feel inferior.
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Posted By: klgrube @ 09/19/2008 6:10:30 PM
One word . . . EWWWWWW!!! Really, TMI PUHLEEZ. TMI!! This is exactly why I hate reality shows. In fact, I don't think I've ever watched more than maybe three minutes of a couple of them. I can't stand this nonsense! Give me a rerun of CSI or Law and Order any time. I really wish someone would get some common sense and take these stupid reality shows off the air.
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Posted By: dawayne @ 09/18/2008 5:18:23 PM
here i am! that wacky young mtv generation everyone is arguing for or agianst. anyway, i like the inclusion of transgendered people. they are people like you and i. they feel as we feel. let us not judge. a person can resonably disagree, but please, respect peoples life decisions. imagine what it must be like..to feel as they feel. isnt that what jesus would do? love, earth, and free-will are Gods gifts to us. celebrate each othem.
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Posted By: thundering @ 09/19/2008 6:09:32 AM
Have to give a shout-out to a fellow youth speaking their mind.
Not enough of us are heard, and sadly too many of us either don't have or don't utilize the intellectual and social tools required to be taken seriously by adults, so it reflects upon the few who even try.
But I digress...
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Posted By: thundering @ 09/19/2008 5:57:59 AM
Also, something to consider for the God driven readers and posters:
What if the devil interfered with the birth somehow (or something to that effect)? What if these strong feelings of being a different gender than one is is God's will telling them that their physical entity is what the problem is, as opposed to their mental or spiritual? Do you prioritize your physical self as the driving force behind your identity over your spiritual and mental self? If no, than why impose that practice onto someone else, or even a whole group of people, that you do not even know.
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Posted By: Justmethinking @ 09/18/2008 12:33:55 PM
Sigh, this is what we've come to... Not flying cars, free energy, houses on the moon, cures for diseases, longevity, social utopia, not even the removal of political boundaries. Nope, we argue about who is a man, who is a woman, who is a woman in a mans body, who is a man in a womans body, who is not those; but just homosexual male or just homosexual female. Then the same eones put themselves on display and then complain that they are just on display and people should treat them just like anyone else, but the anyone else's of this world don't put themselves on display... Sheesh.
Get a grip people. It starts with you not liking who you are, not with me asking you questions about it, or even caring. Do what you like, just don't bug everyone else about it. If I marched around yelling that I am heterosexual and I want everyone to know my bedroom business, people would get sick of it too...
Whiners.-
Posted By: thundering @ 09/19/2008 5:32:22 AM
Just saying... but you can't immediately tell someone's sexual orientation, and it is generally assumed that one is heterosexual. These displays, as far as real-world function, can be/are used to alert and attract like-minded people when it is otherwise a not discernible trait. They can and most certainly will splash outside of their intended function ({i.e. sex isn't purely for procreation... by most people standards at least).
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/18/2008 7:50:03 PM
Models do not put themselves on display?
Celebrities do not put themsleves on display?
Get real. Lots of people put themsleves on display.
IF there was no audience there would be no display.
But this is not transgendered peole complaining about things. It is them being part of society , which they have every right to be. They are jsut as normal as everyone else.
Remember that much of the in-your-face stuff is done becuase the LGBT community realize that sometimes that is the only wasy to get real change. The civil rights activists were very in-your face as were the women's rights/voting activists and the child labor law activists. OFten it requires in-your-face display to effect needed change and granting of irghts. (Along with exposing and destroying idiotic bigotry and sicrimination.) which is why heterosexuals like myself are part of the fight for LGBT equal rights. IT is so that the US becomes a more just and civilized nation. -
Posted By: jimbo3800 @ 09/18/2008 6:55:31 PM
Well said and spot on.
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Posted By: profundity @ 09/18/2008 8:16:55 PM
Losing constestants will always whine and find excuses. It's human nature. Just as a person's sexual orientation that they were born with is human nature. It's not left or right wing. The only difference is that the "different" children of right wing fanatics live in an imposed shame. The real shame is that the holier than thou people of this world, hypocrites most of them, control things to the extent that they do. Get real.
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Posted By: profundity @ 09/18/2008 8:11:27 PM
The losing contestants will always whine and find excuses. It's human nature. Just as the sexual orientation as person is born with is human nature. Don't ask, don't tell, because after the 15 minutes of fame no one really cares - as long as they can get back to their holier than thou lives. Hypocrites most of them.
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Posted By: amlittle @ 09/18/2008 4:27:23 PM
It's not Elisa, It's ELINA.
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Posted By: glenelvis @ 09/18/2008 9:46:28 AM
You cannot mock/curse God and expect to get away with it! Whatever a person sows s/he will reap exactly that. In the beginning God created them male and female each with distinct roles and responsibility, choosing sin always had and still has its consequences. Jesus loves the sinner but hates the sin. He diest for sinner but remember he also told people to turn from their sin that is the central Gospel message that Christ died for sinners provided they repent and turn from their wicked and evil ways. Sin is separation from God who is a Just and Holy God and cannot tolerate sin. Jesus spoke more on the seriousness and literalness of hell than he did about heaven because he didn't want anyone to end up there but at the same time he said broad is the road to hell but narrow is the road to heaven and few will enter. What happened to Jesus before and on the cross illustrates how seriously God looks upon sin but the Good News is that Jesus paid the price on the cross provided we repent, (turn from our sinful ways), accept the sacrifice he pain on our behalf, beleive and follow him. Yes God is love but he is also a Just God who will Judge sin, the question is who's side are you on. By default we are not his children or belong to him until until we choose and accept him and change from our wicked ways. - If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. - II Chronicles 7:14 - Bible
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/18/2008 10:48:46 AM
"You cannot mock/curse God and expect to get away with it!"
Since there is no god there is nothing to mock or curse.
"Whatever a person sows s/he will reap exactly that."
So your mindlessness will reap more mindlessness in your children. What a shame. A family of mental deficients.
The rest of your post is drivle so it can be ignored.-
Posted By: thoushaltnothate @ 09/18/2008 11:24:10 AM
Do you eat shrimp? (Leviticus 11:9-12) Better get to confession, sweetheart. Let's see, what else does the bible say? Polygamy is A-OK! Tattoo? Going to hell. Sex with a woman who has her period? Hell! Selling your daughter into slavery? Fine. Wearing polyester! Hell! Working on the Sabbath? Ah, you're just doomed.
I'm not a Christian. My Goddess is totally down with two men or two women getting it on. More power to 'em, she says, as long as they're consenting adults. Now, your Jesus was a pretty cool dude, but his message about love and tolerance and not judging seems to have been lost on his followers. There's a big ol' happy gay party room up there in heaven, and you won't be invited in.-
Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/18/2008 1:14:20 PM
thallshallnothate,
I take it that was amied at glenelvis since I do not place any value in the religious rules of their god.-
Posted By: thoushaltnothate @ 09/18/2008 3:15:23 PM
Ah yes, sorry, I replied in the wrong place!
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Posted By: tad1969 @ 09/18/2008 1:42:18 PM
Any reason why you have to quote scripture that is millenia old? What is it that you in your own heart think? What are your words? Or...are you a parrot?
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/18/2008 10:41:44 AM
YAWWNN.
Fundamentalist religious arguments. More boring garbage.
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Posted By: eshuster @ 09/18/2008 10:50:38 AM
We shouldn't discriminate against these individuals, but by all means we should not be giving any air time and exposure to them either. I would like all kids to know that they and other homosexuals are living deviate lifestyles that are way outside of the mainstream and not an ideal for our society. No society can thrive under homosexual lifestyles - it is unhealthy for any community. Let's keep this on the fringe and discuss it in terms of tolerance for their psychological issues and not as that being an "alternative lifestyle."
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Posted By: tad1969 @ 09/18/2008 1:37:35 PM
If no society can thrive under homosexual lifestyles...why are they? As a 30 year old daughter of a heterosexual mom, and a closeted homosexual dad I can tell you that our family life would have been a lot more normal if my dad could have just been who he was. Instead I learned how to lie really well because he was forced by society to supress his true identity. FYI...exposing the world to other people (I intentionally didn't say lifestyle--because gay poeple do not chose their life, it is determined for them) can only do one thing. Let every one know that people are people & need to get along.
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/18/2008 1:24:34 PM
We should not give air time to evangelicals either.
Since LGBT (lesbian, gay, transgender, bisexual) individual comprise no more than 15% of the total population they may be out of the mainstream but that does not mean that they are doing anything wrong. And the diversity that they are a part of (along with heterosexuality and asexuality) IS ideal for society. Agains since no one is saying that LGBT is ever going to be the majority component it is inno way unhealthy for any community. And having them as part of a society actually benefits and helps that society thrive. Thriving does not require everyoe procreating, it does require art, music, science and the like which the LGBT community has made very great contributions to every society they have been part of (except when they have been murdered by bible thumpers.).
There is no valid or intelligent reason to want LGBT on the fringe. It is just as natural as eye and skin color and handedness. It is not an alternative lifestyle. It is simply a natural state of being.
The psycholigcal issues that should be addressed and dealt with are one like yours.
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Posted By: sharkman @ 09/17/2008 9:54:26 PM
Do not let your children buy into this imoral behavior.MTV should be boycotted.Teach your children good,clean,morals and do not buy into this live and let live crap.All cristians do not tolerate this sick satanic behavior.
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Posted By: mommakelly @ 09/18/2008 1:19:20 PM
All Christians should learn how to spell correctly also.
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Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/18/2008 10:46:18 AM
"Do not let your children buy into this imoral behavior.MTV should be boycotted.Teach your children good,clean,morals and do not buy into this live and let live crap.All cristians do not tolerate this sick satanic behavior."
Thats right Sharkman, no live and let live. Lets bring back the brainless hatemongerers from the Inquitsition and the Witch trials. Lets go back to women in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant and children in sweatshops.
There is nothing immorral about trasgender but plenty about your views.
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Posted By: mommakelly @ 09/18/2008 1:16:44 PM
The model you referred to as Elisa is not Elisa, her name is actually Elina. .
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