SOCIETY

‘Invisible And Overlooked’

A growing population of lesbian and gay senior citizens seeks recognition for their unique needs and challenges.

By Jessica Bennett | Newsweek Web Exclusive
Sep 18, 2008

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  • Posted By: berlykim68 @ 12/10/2008 1:15:30 PM

    If stupidity was a sport, Joe would be a gold medalist...Bring home the gold, Joe!!

  • Posted By: berlykim68 @ 12/10/2008 1:13:52 PM

    If stupidity was a sport Joe would be a gold medalist

  • Posted By: Jacks5cats @ 12/06/2008 11:48:18 PM

    Nice of Newsweek to lift an article verbatim from the Advocate without ant attribution. Do I smell a corporate rat?

  • Posted By: LoredanaAnais @ 12/05/2008 12:15:04 AM

    I always wonder how people like Joe (6pack) get past the 2nd grade (did you Joe?) and why do they always lurk on message boards re: topics they shouldn't have any interest in... ? Hmmmm Joe, perhaps you might take a Human Sexuality course eh, while you're downing another 6-pack.

  • Posted By: joe 6pack @ 10/13/2008 10:24:42 AM

    This is just sick. It's depraved sexual behavior and it's promotion by the Democrat party and the press is deplorable.

    VOTING FOR A DEMOCRAT IS GAY

    DON'T BE GAY.

    But if you do vote for a Democrat expect more of this depravity.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 10/14/2008 8:25:58 AM

      Joe,

      Please ask mommy to change your diaper. Its keeping oxygen from reaching your little brain.

  • Posted By: joe 6pack @ 09/24/2008 4:33:57 PM

    Gay seniors,

    You get no respect because you are vile depraved perverts.

    End of story.

    • Posted By: uno08 @ 10/02/2008 4:24:56 PM

      Joe, if you hate gays so much why are you still hanging out on this discussion almost three weeks after this story was reported? Do you really hate them as much as you think you do or is your hatred showing because maybe you might be gay and this your way of denying it. I dont want to sound disrespectful to you but wouldnt you have more of a challenge on another topic elsewhere?

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/24/2008 4:36:54 PM

      Joe6pack,

      You are a brainless fool. End of story. Period.

      Now have mommy change your diaper.

      • Posted By: joe 6pack @ 09/24/2008 6:11:03 PM

        Why am I a brainless fool? Is it because I disagree with your view that gay is ok?

        I'd rather be called a fool then someone who embraces a vile depraved perversion.

        • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/24/2008 7:48:12 PM

          Being heterosexual myself I do not embrace homosexuality. But I know that it is not vile, depraved or perverted. I could argue that your views are vile depraved and perverted, but instead they are simply mindless hatemongering and that it is my opinion that you are the one not deserving of respect.

          Homosexuality, in and of itself does nothing to harm you or society. There is no proof that it does. The loving committed relationships that many gays and lesbians engage in are no different then those that heterosexuals engage in and you cannot prove that they are not.

          Procreation is not relevant to the value of a relationship. But in case you decided to raise it anyway, many heterosexual couples either choose not to procreate or are unable to. And gay and lesbian couple CAN procreate using artificial insemination and surrogate (just like heterosexual couple can and do.)

          The ONLY possible reason you can give against them is religious and even there you only speak for your own beliefs since there are members of almost every Christian and Jewish denomination who see no probelms with homosexuality and lesbianism. And even then religious arguements are not valid in US law and policy.


          You did not say that YOU think they deserve no respect. You made a blanket statement and that is mindless foolishness.

  • Posted By: ChakaKhan @ 09/23/2008 6:38:40 AM

    So if I become Gay I could totally rob banks and stuff and get away with it? Newsweek is awesome.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/23/2008 10:16:12 AM

      chakakhan,

      "So if I become Gay "
      One does not BECOME gay. They are born that way.

      "I could totally rob banks and stuff and get away with it?"
      Are you really that bifg of an idiot? I guess so. That has to be one of the most assinine comments on this board. And that is saying a lot, with jimbo and his ilk here.

      • Posted By: joe 6pack @ 09/24/2008 6:15:55 PM

        Ghost, as a child of a homo I have NEVER seen anything that would prove anyone is born into this depravity. NONE. I have however, seen examples of recruitment.

        • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/25/2008 8:42:35 AM

          "as a child of a homo "
          Your words reveal suuch a psychological (almost psychopathic) hatred that I doubt the veracity of this claim. Even if it were so, said hatred may be from the breakup fo your family and nothing else. Your mother may have trained you (not to think but just to react) very well. You need serious psychological counselling.

          "I have NEVER seen anything that would prove anyone is born into this depravity. "

          Are you a medical doctor or a physiologist? No? then you are not able to see (or even possiblity understadn thsoe things) One does not see biological proof on the outside. Also Since you have very limited experience you are making a generalization that you have no basisi for.

          "I have however, seen examples of recruitment."
          Really. Give several examples.

          • Posted By: joe 6pack @ 09/28/2008 4:21:47 PM

            I'm a child of a homo idiot.

            • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/29/2008 9:20:50 AM

              joe,
              "I'm a child of a homo idiot"

              That does not prove anything. Just because you may (or may not) be the child of a homosexual does NOT prove that your assertions that you have seen "Recruitment" is valid. Without examples it proves nothing.

              Also, just because your father (and one or tow of his friends) may or may not have tried to "recruit you" does not say anything about the hommosexual community in general.

              I have met people who claimed to be like you. Children of men who later in life realized that they were homosexual. Some of them (the mature ones) had not problem with it (their fathers did not stop loving them and being in their lives and their mothers were mature enough to realise that their ex-husbands were still good fathers and loving freinds so there was not animosity involved). Others (the haters) had serious problems with it,( mostly caused by mothers who could not deal with it and other family members who were bigots). The haters all claimed that thier fathers tried recruiting other gays but when confronted by it had not evidence and some even had to admit that they were wrong.

              Without evidence and SEVERAL examples, your claim about your father trying to recruit others must be assumed a lie.

              The fact that your use the term "child of a homo" (as opposed to the correct term "child of a homosexual") gives more support to the idea that you are not telling the truth and are so filled with hatred about your father not being who you thought he was that you are intent on makng false statements about all homosexuals to hurt him.

              • Posted By: joe 6pack @ 10/01/2008 5:19:05 PM

                A common practice in gay recruitment: First a gay starts a rumor about a targeted young person being "gay". Then when that young person has heard enough people calling them gay to have self doubt that gay will slide up next to them all fatherly like and say something like " Hey, everyone else can see it. Why can't you? You're gay. I call it recruitment, gays call it seduction. Either way, you don't want them doing it to your kids.

                • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 10/02/2008 10:51:12 AM

                  Bull.

                  I know many gays and they never do that.
                  Why would anyone believe someone who obviously hates gays and will lie to make them look bad?
                  And even if one or two people have done what you say (which I seriously doubt) that in no way says anything about ALL gays. There are heterosexual men and women who spread rumors about opposite sex people (and kids) to get them into bed or to harm them. The actions of a small group says NOTHING about the methods of the whole group.

                  If you had an ounce of brains you would know that.



      • Posted By: CHATO4444 @ 09/23/2008 1:36:00 PM

        Chaka: I think what you are trying to say is that if there is gay gene there must be a robbery gene. Therefore if you are born with these genes then you could act out how ever you see fit because you were born that way. The truth of the matter is that even if you were born that way you still have the oblligation to uphold moral values and laws of society. Good point Chaka, It is not our fault that the others cannot comprehend our intelligent thoughts.

        • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/23/2008 3:54:41 PM

          "Chaka: I think what you are trying to say is that if there is gay gene there must be a robbery gene. "

          Bull.

          There have been many studies that show that homosexuality is biological and not psycholical, the same cannot be said for robbery. Not a "gay gene" like some say. The rest of the comment is garbage.


          "The truth of the matter is that even if you were born that way you still have the oblligation to uphold moral values and laws of society. "

          Since there is nothing immoral about homosexuality or lesbianism, that commetn is also invalid.

          "It is not our fault that the others cannot comprehend our intelligent thoughts."

          If you hactually had intelligent thougth sit would a valid point. You have not shown any intellience.

  • Posted By: sherechita @ 09/28/2008 11:43:01 AM

    You know I'm reading in here a lot of stuff that deals with personal opinion, and some comments that claim that homosexuals are 'depraved'. There are also some comments concerning the religious angle and the whole 'are you born with it' question. I personally think that it is an unconscious choice that is made at any time in a person's life and can change as things change. Hence the whole 'coming out of the closet at 30 after being married and having children' scenerio. On the issue of religion...there is a book out that explains the whole religious aspect. It's called "Is Homosexuality a Sin?" I got it on Amazon. It's a good read and I tend to agree with it...that No homosexuality is not a sin. It isnt even covered in the Bible.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/29/2008 9:26:12 AM

      "I personally think that it is an unconscious choice that is made at any time in a person's life and can change as things change. Hence the whole 'coming out of the closet at 30 after being married and having children' scenerio"

      Actually the coming out of the closet scenario only shows that the person has taken that long to realize what they have been all their life or that they finally have grown tired of living a lie of being heterosexual. Therefore the only choice is the choice to realize what nature has made them (what they were born as) is good thing and that society's views about their bieng evil or sinners or sick are not valid ones.

  • Posted By: joe 6pack @ 09/25/2008 5:59:48 AM

    If one has lived a life of depravity then one does not deserve respect.

    • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/25/2008 8:36:28 AM

      YAWNN

      Typical garbage.

      YOU think that it is depravity. That does not make it so.

      But your hatred IS depraved. Your repsonses (AND THE HATRED THEY HAVE ALWAYS DEMOSTRATED)on this issue show a deep psychological illness. Get help man, You need it.

  • Posted By: dunes cowboy @ 09/24/2008 3:02:50 AM

    Chato I'm done with you. I was told never to argue with a fool, and now I truly see why. You just go ahead and hold your contempt and hatred for gays deep inside you, very close to your heart, so that it eats you up inside and you die an untimely death from the bitterness. Meanwhile, I'll go ahead and live my homosexual lifestyle and perhaps have a certain satisfaction in knowing YOU are the one that is suffering, not me. You too Chaka - you sound like you are a special kind of stupid as well.

  • Posted By: CHATO4444 @ 09/23/2008 1:26:03 PM

    allyndra, being gay is a choice. I have asked everyone on this message board to give conclusive scientific evidence that a gay gene exists. To date, no person can give such data because it does not exist. If gene exist, it would be a predisposition gene not one that is part of our pyhsical characteristics. This gene would be no different that an alcohol gene, pedophilia gene, and so on. It is our moral obligation to channel our desires for the moral good. Your are NOT a Christian is you believe homosexualality is ok. God is all loving and merceyful but He can also be a condeming God. There are many instances in the Bible where God has punished those who did not obey His wishes. You are what Chirstians call a hypocrite - a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., bases on factual data that one does not really possess.

    • Posted By: allyndra @ 09/23/2008 6:03:08 PM

      Do you keep kosher? Do you tithe fully? Do you honor your father and mother , keep the Sabbath, and love your neighbor? I do not ask in jest. I seriously have no respect for this argument at all unless you follow all of the laws in the Bible. All around me, I see people claiming their faith as proof that homosexuality is wrong, dirty, or evil, while willfully choosing which of God's laws they follow. I see that as a much larger hypocracy than mine, and a much more harmful one for society.

  • Posted By: nawawimohamad @ 09/21/2008 4:35:15 AM

    "A growing population of lesbian and gay senior citizens seeks recognition for their unique needs and challenges." What about the rights of those innocent people who were bombed by the US military? What about the welfare of the people on the streets? What is so special for the gays and lesbians? They chose to be weird.

    • Posted By: dunes cowboy @ 09/21/2008 5:12:19 AM

      ummm, I think you're the one who has special needs. Read much? It's not a choice, it's a lifestyle, and whether it is 'weird' to you or not, I'm actually enjoying this lifestyle. If I had it to do over again, even with all the adversity it has caused at times, I probably would.

      Fortunately I'm happy enough that I don't have to demean other people to feel better about myself.

      Grow up.

      • Posted By: CHATO4444 @ 09/21/2008 9:11:34 AM

        What do you think a lifestyle is? A choice. If a choose to lead a lifestyle of alcoholism and pedophilia does this mean it is ok. I think not. You still have the moral reposibility to make appropriate cjoice based on your lifestyle. Your comment is very self-centered and I beleive that is whats wrong in today's society. Everybody seems to be doing what makes them feel good rather than doing what is moral and better for society.

        • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/21/2008 4:30:32 PM

          "What do you think a lifestyle is? A choice."
          I would argue that dune cowqboy is using inaccurate language. Although there is a lifestyle component to Homosexuality, at its core it is not a choice it is biologically dentermined. Although a homosexual or lesbina can try to delude themsleves into acting heterosexual they are deny thate way nature made them, and , THAT action (denying who they really are) is a mental disorder.

          "If a choose to lead a lifestyle of alcoholism and pedophilia does this mean it is ok. I think not."
          Those are not avlid analogies.

          "You still have the moral reposibility to make appropriate cjoice based on your lifestyle."
          Sine there is nothing "morally inappropriate" with living life as a homosexual, that commetn is moot.

          "Your comment is very self-centered and I beleive that is whats wrong in today's society. Everybody seems to be doing what makes them feel good rather than doing what is moral and better for society."

          It is not at all self-centered. He is doing nothing wrong or "immoral" (whatever that means) and nothing he does adversely affects society. His being homosexual and engaing in homosexual sexual acitivites (which is actually a small part of a homosexual or lesbian relationship for most) is no different and has no diffeerent effect on society than my being heterosexual and having a committed heterosexual relationship with my girlfriend.

          • Posted By: CHATO4444 @ 09/23/2008 1:29:23 PM

            The proof is in the pudding. Show me conclusive evidence that there is a gay gene. Please, I really would like to review the possibility of being wrong.

            • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/23/2008 3:58:54 PM

              Not a "gay gene" but a very real biological component. There have been several studies. Check out the web to find them. It is not our job to do that for you.

              And the reality is that even of it were not biologically determined, it would make no difference. There is nothing inherently "wrong" with homosexual activity between two consenting adults. It is no different than heterosexual activity between two consenting adults. Religious views have no meaning in civil law They are worthless.

          • Posted By: dunes cowboy @ 09/21/2008 6:21:36 PM

            Thank you ghost you put it so much better than I could. But your valid point is lost on these cretins who will never change their hateful, emotion-backed mindset.

            • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/22/2008 10:22:45 AM

              dune,

              True, but those who are jsut treading and have intelligence willunderstand what is being said and willnot fall for their garbage (or may realize that thier views on homosexuality being wrong were invalid.) Since every year more and more people are coming to that realization, it must be working.

        • Posted By: dunes cowboy @ 09/21/2008 5:52:34 PM

          Chato I really have no idea what you are talking about. Apparently your logic is very flawed or you have special needs as well. If people like you want to stay in the dark ages that's fine, but why post here on this board thinking anybody is going to actually read your posts? Get a life

      • Posted By: CHATO4444 @ 09/23/2008 1:31:19 PM

        Are you a gay cowboy?

      • Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 6:26:44 AM

        @dunes
        There really has been no solid evidence saying people are born homosexual. I am gay, but I can not say that I was born this way in good conscience when complex environmental factors very well could have been the reason.

        @nawa The rights of the people are being bombed are being tended to by their own governments and any other sympathetic nation or organization. As for people in welfare and people on the streets, their rights are being tended to as well, but they have a long way to go. Gays and lesbians (on this specific issue) are relatively close to the special treatment they need. I'll throw a number out there and say that they are 90% of the way to optimum care (reminder, only referring to the issue discussed in the article), and the last 10% is easily obtainable and could be quickly remedied. Which is why people are pressing for it, because it is a relatively quick fix and we do need to focus on bigger issues, and why not stop to put a bandaid on a scratch on your way to open-heart surgery?

        • Posted By: dunes cowboy @ 09/21/2008 7:58:40 AM

          Okay so it is the Nature v. Nurture argument. I happen to believe that there is a gay gene and that it just hasn't been mapped yet. Imagine what would happen if it were; I don't suspect the knowledge would be used to celebrate our diversity exactly, at least not here in America. If you feel like exploring the issue a good place to start would be Dr. Simon LeVay's article on the biology of homosexuality.

          • Posted By: thundering @ 09/21/2008 8:05:19 AM

            That is my current belief as well, but I don't feel much like committing to and defending a stance when it is still as much as a toss-up as I perceive it to be (I don't follow new developments closely, so for all I know they may have proved it either way). Thanks for the recommendation, I'll be sure to check it out..

  • Posted By: Work4Play @ 09/20/2008 10:58:51 PM

    I don't know why everyone is so quick to jump homosexuals based on this article. I am a straight man myself and I find it very hard to believe any individual would choose to deviate from the norm and get ridiculed and critisized every day. Who says gay sex feels better? I would think it feels the same as you're stimulating the same body parts. There is a difference between having sex to feel good, and actually being attracted to someone both physically, mentally and spiritually.

    Now to those saying, "what goes around, comes around...", I have never committed a single crime, never hurt anybody, stole from anybody, never slept with another man nor have had thoughts to. I work hard to help others, yet I've suffered very many tragic events in my life ranging from deaths of my family in my teen years (parents and brother) to a deadly progressive heart condition that has required 4 surgeries and counting, and I'm still in my 20s! So why would God punish me for all of this? That's right, He doesn't. That's just the way my cards were dealt. So older gays suffering from being alone isn't because God is punishing them, it's because they are denied rights that any human would want.

    We are ALL allowed to judge, that's just human nature. But I don't get why everyone gets so offended by people who have sex with the same sex--I'm sorry, but this has been going on since the ancient Greeks and the world still has not ended. It's very easy to point th efinger and put all the blame on one scapegoat, and I feel homosexuals are a huge scapegoat in many of todays problems.

    One cannot get AIDS unless they exchange blood or sexual fluids with another AIDS victim, or if they are unlucky enough to get pricked with a needle with HIV. So if 2 HIV NEGATIVE people are having sex, that is not promoting or spreading AIDS at all, and I don't see how it's affecting the world or why God would be so angry over it.

    I think a big misconception is that homosexuality is based just on sex. People tend to forget or not realize that there can be a genuine love shared between 2 of the same sex.

    My point is...no one hear has walked a mile in GOd's shoes, therefore no one should speak for him and what his judgements are. No one witnessed how the Bible was created. We are simply humans searching for the answer to life--we don't have all the answers! I for one am THANKFUL for diversity in ethnic backgrounds, sexual lifestyles, and political and religious views because it's great to get to know and learn from others--NOT to hate or ridicule.

    • Posted By: allyndra @ 09/23/2008 11:47:56 AM

      That was very well said. I'm straight, and I agree whole-heartedly. If sexual orientation was a choice, don't you think people would have chosen to be straight in days when they could be hauled off to jail, thrown in concentration camps, or executed for being gay? I never chose to be straight. When I hit puberty, I just noticed the opposite sex. Why would it be a choice on the part of anyone else? Of course the lifestyle is a choice, but I can't imagine ostracizing and despising someone because they wanted a life in which they could find love and companionship.

      I'm constanty irked by the fact that the Bible is used to prop up homophobic and anti-gay stances. In the same chapter of Leviticus, we find the laws against adultery and against sleeping with a menstruating woman. Now, many people who oppose homosexuality on a religious basis also oppose adultery, but I don't see them treating adultery as revolting and a crime against nature, the way they do homosexuality. And the law against sleeping with a menstruating woman seems so nonsensical to many of us that we never even bring it up. So why is the law against man lying with man so crucial, inspiring of such hatred, while other laws are fine to ignore? I'm Christian, and my God is a loving and forgiving God, and I don't need to hide behind him to defend my own irrational fears and hate.

  • Posted By: ExpandYourMind LiveYourLife @ 09/20/2008 8:33:56 PM

    God does not exsist, therefor, all you bible thumping bigots lose this argument. The bible was not written by any prophets, it is a fairy tale written to control the masses throught fear.

    • Posted By: pilot @ 09/20/2008 9:08:16 PM

      Uh, just where were you when God created the universe and set his standards for us to live by? Oh, you were where????

      • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/23/2008 10:19:25 AM

        Since ther is no god , that entity did not create the universe or anything else. Ergo the rest of post is moot.

  • Posted By: ChakaKhan @ 09/23/2008 6:36:32 AM

    Invisable! Ahhh! Do you think there could be one...in my house...right now?

  • Posted By: Ric86 @ 09/18/2008 2:56:09 PM

    "I left the homosexual life style over eleven years ago. My wife Cheryl did the same over four years ago.

    Homosexuality is a clinical developmental gender identity disorder. There is quantitative scientific research on the subject and thousands of individual case studies that prove, that persons with homosexual ideations can and have changed through clinical therapy and counseling. There is no biological evidence, not one repeatable study, not a single genetic test that gives any validity to homosexual behavior as a "born" trait. No one is born Gay, no one! Homosexuality is an emotional disorder, a pathology that can be and has been effectively changed when a person is highly motivated to change.

    Both my wife and I are victims of child abuse... We know first hand that being "gay" is not happy, but a lifestyle that leaves you broken and empty...

    As a nurse, I watched 100 of my friends and acquaintances die of AIDS and AIDS related illnesses. After that I stopped counting. The devastation of homosexual behavior, the cumulative effect that that behavior has brought and continues to bring is incalculable.

    I lived over nine years of my life as a homosexual. In my attempt to justify being "gay," I founded the Dayton Committee for the Human Rights Campaign Fund in 1989, raising thousands of dollars for the nations largest homosexual organization....

    Tens of thousands of homosexuals have changed and more desire to change. Homosexuality is a behavior -- not a genetic trait. Based on verifiable evidence, there is no justification for same sex marriage, civil unions or domestic partnership legislation. None.

    My wife and I are living proof, along with thousands of others, that persons with same sex attraction can and have changed, and thereby have the right to marry. That means, committed to one another as man and woman.
    (Gregory and Cheryl Quinlan)

    • Posted By: CHANGEQUICK @ 09/23/2008 12:23:08 AM

      i too have changed from homosexduality to heterosexuality. I was also left-handed, but I learned to write with my right hand. I was Jewish, but now I'm a good Christian. Incidentally, I used to be an African-American, but now I am white. I went to Michael Jackson's dermatologist....

    • Posted By: sffilk @ 09/18/2008 3:40:26 PM

      How about all the people who tried, along with you, who maybe know you, who did NOT "change"? How do you explain them?

      • Posted By: jchastn @ 09/18/2008 10:52:43 PM

        I saw you in a gay bar last week. You sure kiss gay...

    • Posted By: cchat123 @ 09/18/2008 3:23:10 PM

      Newsflash! YOU WEREN'T HOMOSEXUAL " OR YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELF. AND
      WHAT RESEARCH ARE YOU USING.
      YOU HAVE TO BE ONE UNEDUCATED NURSE....WHERE DO YOU WORK, SO I CAN STAY
      AWAY FROM YOUR SKILL LEVEL OR LACK OF

    • Posted By: rickster960 @ 09/18/2008 3:22:40 PM

      Well good for you!! Let me know when you come back out of the closet when you can no longer deny your true self. If being gay is a choice, why would anyone choose it??? I myself denied who I really was throughout my teenage years and my twenties. I did the "right thing" and found a nice girl and settled down. Don't tell me I didn't try, I gave it seventeen years. Not only was I being unfair to myself, the person really being cheated was my wife. I love her today as much as I ever did. Truth is, it was never the right kind of love. She was and is my best friend. She deserved more from life than I could give her, as did I. I have to say we are both MUCH happier with our lives now.
      One more thing. Anyone else find interesting that both of these people are "recovering gays"? Both of you just keep lying to yourselves, but think how easy the spit will be. He'll find a boyfriend and she'll find a girlfriend (if that hasn't happened already) and all will happily ever after!

    • Posted By: FudgieLover @ 09/18/2008 3:17:33 PM

      Please revisit the DSM IV,-TR, page 535, that states," Gender Identiy Disorders are characterized by strong and persistent cross-gender identification accompanied by persistent DISCOMFORT with one's assigned sex" . It goes on to read, "The terms gender identity and gender dysphoria should be distinguished from the term sexual orientation, which refers to erotic attration to males, females, or both". You are obviously misquoting this reference manual to skew the opinion to your side. You are not only sad, but you are incredibly wrong when you write that there are great bodies of research that proves people can be changed. You are distorting the facts so they fit your beliefs. This is a very sad way to sway people to your opinion, which in all honesty, is all you can write about. Your scientific references are lacking and pathetic in their validity.

      Not all people who are straight are happy, and not all people who are gay are unhappy. Please do not make broad, sweeping generalizations about being gay. I know many straight people who are broken and empty - by your logic, if they became gay would that change them into whole and complete people? Get real here... you are attempting to ramrod your religious opinions through unfounded rhetoric and hateful, inaccurate statements. If you weren't really gay, then I'm happy you found your rightful place in life, and indeed, you would may have qualified for a mental health diagnosis of a gender identify disorder, if you were not happy with the sex you were granted by birth. You cite your personal anecdotal experiences as empircal science and it won't fly when intelligent, educated people read it...so, who is your target audience you wish to sway to your "truth"?

      And why are you so threatened by the concept of two same-sex people marrying? How does this affect your life? A great joke seems to defy your writings..." How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb? The answer...it doesn't matter unless the light bulb wants to change". Hope you see the light.

    • Posted By: karl langer @ 09/18/2008 3:11:08 PM

      awsome stuff I agree 100% This is spoken with true wisdom more of this needs to be said out there. What you say is all true

  • Posted By: straightandproud @ 09/20/2008 4:48:31 PM

    FUDGEPACKING ***.....Try banging a chick and you will realize how great it is

    • Posted By: CHANGEQUICK @ 09/23/2008 12:02:44 AM

      Enter Your Comment I did. She told me she was your sister.

    • Posted By: Higgy26 @ 09/20/2008 5:30:23 PM

      Try knocking her up and see how wonderful your life will become. Happy DNA test to you.

  • Posted By: typicalamerican @ 09/18/2008 3:18:23 PM

    All people who enter into a committed relationship do not merit the same rights guaranteed by law. Marriage is and always has been a sacred union. A union of two people that have the potential to procreate...this is essential to life. Gay unions violate the laws of nature, they are physiologically silly at the very least and at worst can be damaging. I agree that Gay and lesbian people deserve the rights and protections of heterosexual people as individuals. However, a society in conformance with nature and history itself should not be burdened by these individuals choices.

    • Posted By: sffilk @ 09/18/2008 3:24:41 PM

      What about heterosexual couples who never have children? According to what you said, they are not entitled to the same rights as heterosexual couples who do have children. Are they to be treated as second-class citizens as well?

      • Posted By: typicalamerican @ 09/18/2008 3:30:02 PM

        I think i said "the potential to procreate". This is an important distinction. It is why society accepts and fosters some unions over others.

        • Posted By: CHANGEQUICK @ 09/22/2008 11:55:04 PM

          Enter Your Comment According to your argument, post-menopausal women should not be allowed to marry or have sex, since there is no possibility of procreation. No lady over 50 should be doing it.....

        • Posted By: cr42001 @ 09/18/2008 4:50:43 PM

          but if 1 or both members of a heterosexual couple can not produce children then there is not potential to procreate for that couple; then according to that logic this union should be invalid - correct?

    • Posted By: cr42001 @ 09/18/2008 3:29:21 PM

      ignorance of the law (of nature) is no excuse - for you. no species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis [Bagemihl - Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity]. sounds pretty darn natural to me.

      • Posted By: typicalamerican @ 09/18/2008 3:35:53 PM

        True...there is breif male-male or female-female encounters in other species within nature. But they produce nothing and are rejected by nature. Can you give an example of any committed homosexual relationships (Long-Term or Committed) in Nature?

        • Posted By: science-comments @ 09/18/2008 4:54:13 PM

          Here's one for you to read: go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Swan. Black swans pair (same sex, or opposite sex) for life. If his partner dies, he lives alone until it is his time to meet his Creator and lifelong partner (again, and they will be together until time-space is no more.)

        • Posted By: cr42001 @ 09/18/2008 3:54:29 PM

          you mean like the 2 chinstrap penguins at the Central Park Zoo in Manhattan that have been a "couple" for over 6 years?

      • Posted By: erutanjaxon @ 09/18/2008 3:35:42 PM

        Please do your research. Giraffes have been proven to be bisexual in nature. Male penguins have been proven to both nest and catch an egg that was abandoned by a female, and raise it together.

        • Posted By: typicalamerican @ 09/18/2008 3:47:53 PM

          That's it!!!! you've changed my entire view on this. I had no idea that it was proven that giraffes can be bisexual....

          • Posted By: erutanjaxon @ 09/18/2008 3:55:29 PM

            The more you know.........

    • Posted By: nonsheep @ 09/18/2008 3:34:27 PM

      WHAT A BOGUS COMMENT. SO IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO HAVE CHILDREN THEN YOU SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET MARRIED. NOW THAT'S RETARDED, AND YOU KNOW IT. STATES HAVE COMMON LAW RIGHTS FOR PEOPLE THAT SHACK UP FOR 7+ YEARS. RIGHT? THIS IS NO DIFFERENT. THESE GAY COUPLES "WANT" THEIR MARRIAGES TO RECOGNIZED BY THE GOVT. JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN'T PROCREATE DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. THE LAST THING THIS WORLD NEEDS IS MORE PEOPLE.

  • Posted By: brownsugah @ 09/18/2008 2:03:21 PM

    I agree with drvein99 100%!!!!!!!!!!!! Gayness is a sin, it is wrong, and should not be recognized. What man wants to be poked in the booty by another man!!! Only a nasty one!!! And what real woman does not want a man! Come on folks you really want us to acknowledge this b/s. paaleeaase!

    • Posted By: ergobot @ 09/18/2008 2:09:11 PM

      i hope you realize that you sound so much like the people who said African Americans shouldn't be free, or that they shouldn't be able to date and marry white people, or eat and shop or go to school with white people. they said it was a sin to allow African Americans to fraternize with anyone but their own race and anyone who did was a bad person. HATE is wrong, and is a sin. JUDGING others for their actions is a sin.

      • Posted By: elaminrashad @ 09/18/2008 2:13:07 PM

        Stop using African Americans .This is not the same.

        • Posted By: willowtree @ 09/18/2008 4:44:38 PM

          This is certainly for sure. The decision to be gay is made by choice, not by genetic predisposition or biological malfunction. It's a choice made with an influence of culimating factors, especially socio-cultural ones. Many homosexuals who seek abundant and fulfilled life have been able to abandon that "empty lifestyle" and embrace the blessed life God has for them. Exodus International is a great ministry for the recovering gay community. To compare a gay person who chose his/her lifestyle to a person who has endured persecution historically because of race (something that cannot be changed), is not only unjust, but also insulting.

          • Posted By: CHANGEQUICK @ 09/22/2008 11:39:51 PM

            Enter Your Comment I have been a homosexual male for the last 50 years, but when I woke up this morning, I decided I would like to become a heterosexual ASAP. Maybe If I marry a woman, I can avoid an eternity of pain and suffering in hell. So-- if there are any of you Christian women out there, I would be interested in meeting you. Let's go out for a drink sometime. If not you, I would like to date your sister!

          • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/19/2008 10:16:23 AM

            willowtree,

            "The decision to be gay is made by choice, not by genetic predisposition or biological malfunction. It's a choice made with an influence of culimating factors, especially socio-cultural ones"

            Actually science and medicine has proven that statement to be a lie. Homosexuality is very difinitely biologically determined and is a nautrla state of being.

            Many homosexuals who seek abundant and fulfilled life have been able to abandon that "empty lifestyle" and embrace the blessed life God has for them. Exodus International is a great ministry for the recovering gay community."

            Exodus International has be shown to be a fraud. Its members are self-delusional.

            " To compare a gay person who chose his/her lifestyle to a person who has endured persecution historically because of race (something that cannot be changed), is not only unjust, but also insulting."

            Bull. It is a exact analogy. Race is biologically determined as is sexual orientation. Neither can be changed. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

            • Posted By: Someone925 @ 09/20/2008 3:12:44 PM

              Keep telling yourself that! You may beleive it someday.

              • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/21/2008 5:15:12 PM

                Do not need to keep telling myself that. It is true.

                I deal with science, not the useless (foer em) stuff of man-made religion and their god.

                Of course for me the issue is simply one of science and law.

                As a heterosexual I would not face most the problems that mindless bigotry has forced upon my gay and lesbian friends (some of whom have been in committed monogamous relationships for over 25 years.)

      • Posted By: Someone925 @ 09/20/2008 3:17:20 PM

        To compare this to race is wrong. An African American, Native American or Hispanic cannot change thier color to blend in. If the gay community would quit flaunting it in everyones face trying to make them say it is welcome they would blend in too.

    • Posted By: mcsaripkin @ 09/18/2008 2:06:45 PM

      So know you are the decider of sin and no sin? Amazing. I guess God came down and handed you your own private book of what is and is not a sin. And no, do not hide behind the Bible. I can show you as many versus to support homosexuality as to oppose it scripturally. Why are you people even reading this article if you are so closed minded as to negate an entire portion of the population. Go back in your closets and live you sheltered life.

      • Posted By: deelynn @ 09/18/2008 2:13:06 PM

        I'm curious as to where homosexuality is okay in the Bible. Could you please share some of those scriptures with me. Thank you.

        • Posted By: '53 Korean Vet @ 09/21/2008 12:14:16 AM

          After reading the posts, I don't feel that I should join in on discussions that lead to no conclusions--but will
          contribution something known--to all here-- I feel that "All" have seen the movie, "Ten Commandments"---
          with Charleton Heston as "Moses"--right? The Israelites left Egypt from their slavery, and the Red Sea
          parted, and they excaped from Pharoah's Army of 200,000 men-- And then, Pharoah's Army followed them
          between 2 600 ft walls of water-- Next the walls of water refill the gap, and "All were drowned" Would you
          TODAY like to see "Under-water Photos" of "Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea" with 5" to 10" of Coral growing on them? (You have a computer same as I do--use it--) Type in Red Sea Crossing , then skip
          the 27 min. video--it's not worth your time--scroll way on down to see the 'under-water Chariot Wheels'...
          This is archaeological "Proof" that the "EXODUS" actually happened as the Bible says--and is NOT just a
          'bunch of myths & made-up stories-- "What you SEE with your Own Two-Eyes" is what you can believe in!"
          This 'Internet Site' has been in place--for the last Ten Years--Isn't Knowledge & Truth Wonderful?!

          • Posted By: ghostmasseur @ 09/21/2008 5:21:29 PM

            Actually is does not prove that the Exodus story is real. It only proves that a chariot wheel (or several) ended up in the Red Sea.

            Also, even if there are parts of the TaNaKH stories that are historically true does not prove anything about the religious/god aspects. Many good books start with real events to build their fiction around. So Moses may have been a very skilled general (anyone male who was raised in the princely mold in Egypt would have learned a lot about military strategy), and after wandering in the desert for years before returning he would have been able to figure out the tides and the failings of the Egyptian military mindset. So he set a trap and the Egyptian may have fallen into it. That does not require a god or anything like a supernatural "miracle". It was simple common sense. All human stuff, no god stuff.

        • Posted By: mcsaripkin @ 09/18/2008 2:28:57 PM

          The easiest verse is that "we are all made in his image." Enough said. I am gay, I was made in His image. I am a Christian, just like you. Sorry, God does not choose. Maybe you love calling Blacks by the "N" word and are worried that one of them will marry your daughter? Do you worry that some satanic Mexican is going to come and take your job? Do you worry that the Red Man is going to come off the reservation and rape you grandchildren? Grow up. It's 2008.

          • Posted By: SonoftheSon @ 09/18/2008 4:34:14 PM

            Dude:
            Wow! I never thought that "...made in His Image..." had anything to do with sexual-orientation. So God is gay? Is that what you are saying? Or is God bisexual? I didn't think God was sexual at all? Something in the texts about "...in the Kingdom they shall not marry nor be given in marriage..." Silly me. I always thought that "...made in His Image..." meant that we all reflect something of His nature...although quite dimly in this present age due to the effects of sin. If we are perfect now, why did Christ have to come and die for us so that we would have redemption from this sinful existence? I don't get it, was the death of God a thing of vanity? I'm not arguing gayness or not gayness here. I'm asking what it means to be created in the image of God? I'd really like to hear your answer?

        • Posted By: deebee1222 @ 09/18/2008 3:01:01 PM

          Actually, the term 'homosexual' does not appear in the bible.

    • Posted By: Valerie1972 @ 09/18/2008 2:25:33 PM

      Why do those who oppose equal rights for gays and lesbians always come back to the sexual part of the argument. We are far more than our sexual behavior. The issue is not do you or do you not support our sexual behavior. I might not support whatever it is you do in your bedroom. The real issue at hand is equal rights. You, regardless of what kind of activity you do in bed, won't be denied your spouse's social security because of it. Why is it so hard for some people to get past the sex and really think with an open mind about the love and support same sex couples share with eachother. It is exactly the same as heterosexual couples. The love is there, the companionship, the commitment is there. So, please tell me what is so different besides the sexual aspect and why so many people care so much what gay couples do in bed?

  • Posted By: zzyzx70 @ 09/20/2008 9:06:55 PM

    GOD SAID IN THE BIBLE THAT MAN THAT LAY WITH A MAN AS HE LAY WITH A WOMAN SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH--ENOUGHT SAID....

    • Posted By: CHANGEQUICK @ 09/22/2008 11:32:28 PM

      I SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH? ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT, BIG BOY? GIVE IT TO ME WITH BOTH GUNS, BABY!

    • Posted By: Pimientita @ 09/20/2008 9:41:43 PM

      God also said you shouldn't eat shrimp or lobster or wear blended fabrics (cotton/spandex). God also said that children who talk back to their parents should be stoned to death and that women who are raped should marry the man who raped them (seems like a punishment to the man, but the woman is not even taken into consideration...who wants to spend the rest of her life with her rapist?).

      Are you willing to follow through with these other Biblical guidelines? If not, then STFU about homosexuals because you have no valid Biblical basis if you choose to cherry pick what you want to accept from the Bible. Feel free to feel "icky" about teh gayz, but stop trying to prop up your irrational hatred with the Bible unless you want to be a hypocrite.

      Where are you guys on the Pig BBQ threads? Or speaking out against Sarah Palin (having no woman above you and all)?

      *** hypocrites. Either your Bible is true or it's not. Either your God is consistent or it's not. Make up your minds, but in the meantime leave the rest of us alone. We don't need to put up with your theological temper tantrums.

      • Posted By: braveheart123 @ 09/20/2008 10:41:17 PM

        Ex 21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. Ex 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. {curseth: or, revileth} Le 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. I think that "cursed" is a lot stronger than "talk back." Le 20:10 ¶ And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. Le 20:13 IF A MAN ALSO LIE WITH MANKIND AS HE LIETH WITH A WOMAN, BOTH OF THE HAVE COMMITTED AN ABOMINATION: THEY SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH; THEIR BLOOD SHALL BE UPON THEM. Thats what the Bible says. Not me not my preacher not anyone else. The Word of God said it. You believe it or you dont, its true. You might not be put to death now, (back in ancient times, you actually did get put to death) but you will burn in hell. Oh, and by the way, FOREVER. That is a long time. Just in case you homos dont now what "FOREVER" means, it means "WITHOUT END!!"

    • Posted By: MichelleChemE @ 09/20/2008 9:32:17 PM

      It also says that disobedient children shall be put to death and that women who are raped within city walls shall be put to death because they didn't "cry out". But you, like most xtians, have probably never read the bible and are just repeating what you're Church of God pastor said.

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