The Next Bailout: Detroit

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  • Posted By: SayItA'intSo @ 09/29/2008 7:40:49 AM

    I woke up this morning to the alarm clock radio saying us taxpayers have just floated the big 3 automaker a very high risk 25 billion dollar loan slid into the 700 billion dollar bailout package for Wall Street. When were they gonna spring this on us? This is another group of execs thats been slipping it to the american people for decades never giving us what we ask for in a safe, economical energy efficient vehicle. In bed with the fuel companys whos turned their back on them. Why we gotta bail them out too? Is this an american rape of taxpayers? What about us?

  • Posted By: kojie1960 @ 09/27/2008 9:03:04 PM

    I would, under normal circumstances consider this an opportunity for not only the automakers but for Michigan and the Nation to start rebuilding. But unlike Lee Iaccoca and Chrysler Corp. back in the 80's today's automakers show a serious lack of Leadership skills. That is what got them in this mess in the first place and I do not have any faith that we will ever see that money again. I have yet to hear any details of this plan but I have to wonder with the Leadership that we see not only in Corporate America but in Washington D.C. doe's anyone believe that there are some common sense safeguards built into this bill to insure the money will go to where Michigan the Nation will best benefit by it ? Safeguards such as: Where will all the tool design and product design go ? No tax dollars should go overseas to be used to design either product or tooling for these plants . All work must be done in America by Americans , no importation of cheap labor, no outsourcing to India or E. Europe or company's based overseas with office's here. It is time for the automakers to start rebuilding what they spent the last 10 years destroyng and they should start right in they're own backyards. The same applies to the building of these tools and the making of the product itself. No shipping the designs off to S.Korea, Japan or China, the work must stay here, after all it is our money and it should be used in enrich our prospects not someone else's overseas. Let us hope that for just this once common sense might prevail.

  • Posted By: j.Boski @ 09/24/2008 11:36:33 PM

    ROFL Osama could't of done a better job destorying this country then Bush has.

  • Posted By: jerrydu @ 09/22/2008 10:46:18 AM

    I would support the loans to the Big Three if they agree to halt their practices of only awarding new business to "low cost countries." Being a person that is in the Automotive business it makes me sick to see them sending all of their suppliers' business to Mexico or overseas.

  • Posted By: kcwolf @ 09/22/2008 1:21:26 AM

    Heck no, why should the American taxpayer bail out a industry that hurt itself from all it's greed & losey managment. Let them fix the problems thereselves. If they producing autos that get recalled ever 2-4 years they are not worth the saving. Since most of the parts are made in other counties, when they should be made here, maybe if they would bring all the parts jobs back to the good ole USA & give the jobs to Americans citizens, the cars & trucks you be built right like they used to be. I say no to bailing these companies out.

  • Posted By: bigermay @ 09/20/2008 4:19:37 PM

    LESTER THUROW OF THE MIT SLOAN SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT HAS BEEN PREDICTING BOTH THE INEVITABLE FALL OF THE US DOLLAR AND THE INSTABILITY OF CAPITALISM.

    HE HAS BEEN TOO EARLY FOR THE PUBLIC WITH A SHORT MEMORY. THERE ARE NEW FUNDAMENTALS IN PLAY EVEN DEEPER THAN PROFESSOR THUROW'S ANALYSES.

    GET THESE FIRST AND BE PREPARED FOR THE NEXT SET OF CRISES. THE BOOK IS :"OUR NATION IS GOD" ON AMAZON.COM IT IS SHOCKING BUT IS THE DRIVER OF CURRENT EVENTS AND THEIR ECONOMIC COUNTERPARTS.

    THERE IS TIME TO REPOSITION BUT GET STARTED!

  • Posted By: bigermay @ 09/20/2008 4:17:37 PM

    LESTER THUROW OF THE MIT SLOAN SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT HAS BEEN PREDICTING BOTH THE INEVITABLE FALL OF THE US DOLLAR AND THE INSTABILITY OF CAPITALISM.

    HE HAS BEEN TOO EARLY FOR THE PUBLIC WITH A SHORT MEMORY. THERE ARE NEW FUNDAMENTALS IN PLAY EVEN DEEPER THAN PROFESSOR THUROW'S ANALYSES.

    GET THESE FIRST AND BE PREPARED FOR THE NEXT SET OF CRISES. THE BOOK IS :"OUR NATION IS GOD" ON AMAZON.COM IT IS SHOCKING BUT IS THE DRIVER OF CURRENT EVENTS AND THEIR ECONOMIC COUNTERPARTS.

    THERE IS TIME TO REPOSITION BUT GET STARTED!

  • Posted By: Lordcron @ 09/20/2008 3:18:47 PM

    Here's the question. Why would you bail out the car industry when there is on one to buy the cars? Everyone is to poor to buy one. That would be foolish. I have an answer. Bail out the people and the industry will follow and grow as it's suppose to do.

  • Posted By: NotAScientologist @ 09/20/2008 2:34:04 PM

    I wouldn't buy a new American car right now. Its just to costly. I will not put my hard earned money to cover LEGACY COSTS that are now the overpricing of automobiles. Plus, the big three, is a AutoCraTic System of small governance. These men are elitists with no consideration on the drain to our economy. THE THE BIG THREE DISAPPEAR.

  • Posted By: Chaotician @ 09/20/2008 11:40:55 AM

    The Volt seems to reflect the very outdated Detroit thinking; a cat that costs twice as much and is still a concept while competition is selling simlar cars next year! Better to let these dinosaurs die andpay any subsidies directly to Auto Workers for 2 years and hope that some of them create new American car companies that can be the true inheritots of Henery Ford, Dodge, Chrysler, Studebaker, et al... The so called Auto industrialists have forgotten that they need to make useful products, not just some junk to make money!

  • Posted By: olderwiser @ 09/20/2008 8:34:50 AM

    The government should confiscate all of the American car manufacturers, forthwith, then sell them to Japan. Japan will then make fuel efficient cars with American employees, who can have a decent job again. The cars that they manufacture will be more fuel efficient and this will help alleviate the fuel crisis. The money that is received from Japan for the factories we sold them can then be put back into the treasury to replace some of the money that was used to bail out other unsuccessful American businesses that were not allowed to go bankrupt, but were instead given federal aid, same as giving food stamps to single mothers who need help raising their children while they get another foothold on life.
    The fifteen yard penalty whistle has finally been blown on all the neo-conservative blowhards who made a few dollars and then tried to pull the ladder up and leave the rest of our citizenry in peonage, "whining", a la Phil Gramm. The AIG "whine" has deafened our whole economy, and the worst irony of all is that the current CEO will be paid millions of our rescuing tax dollars to leave the disaster that he helped to foster on the whole damned country.
    These people are holier than you. Whatever you do, don't vote for a Republican for a long while until we clean up the godawful mess that they have made of this country. They will lie, cheat and steal to try to hold onto this undeserved power that they have gained through lying, cheating and stealing. Beware.

  • Posted By: Ron Paul For Pope @ 09/20/2008 2:25:27 AM

    Make them pay for the bailout. Make them accept these terms:

    The taxpayers bail them out in return for a controlling share in the companies. Furthermore, the companies are specifically prohibited, by law, from ever lobbying Congress again.

    If we're going to nationalize the stupid f***s, let's do it on our terms. Force them to make clean-energy cars, urban-centric transportation, etc.

    Otherwise, what's in it for us?

  • Posted By: entrix @ 09/19/2008 11:30:00 PM

    No they don't deserve nothing, and need to close. Just like I would close my business because I'm broke. These companies need to wake up, and stop asking for money. No matter what I say it doesn't matter. It's on the presidents mind. Old Billy Boy needs some money for some more OIL. Let's suck out every American's money and give it too these companies. So you can't eat, feed your family, pay your electricity not a big deal.

  • Posted By: legui1 @ 09/19/2008 12:37:44 PM

    It's amazing to see all of the blame put on the Big Three. I started with Dodge selling in 1983
    and for those that are not old enough to remember we had gone through gas shortages in the late
    70's and that led to economic stagnation with 18% interest rates, etc. At that time we had small
    cars with very fuel efficent engines. We even had small trucks with turbo diesel engines that got
    high thirty low 40 MPG's. What happended is that people began going to big trucks and then big
    SUV's. The big three at that time produced what people buy and that still goes for today. At the
    moment it has to get 40 plus MPG or people do not want it. Even Toyota and Nissan got into the
    large powerful truck segment in the last few years and they are now taking a beating on those
    models. The bottom line is that there is technology out there and it will be put into use if that is what
    people want., and only then. Do we really want all our vheicles to become imports, and do we really
    want to put a great many thousands of people out of work at this time. Think about it!

    • Posted By: alfacanguro @ 09/19/2008 9:31:50 PM

      The only difference between the Big Three and foreign brands like Toyota, Nissan and Honda is that the foreign brands never lost sight of the need to continue to invest in energy efficient technology and product. When gas went to $4 a gallon, they had alternative products to sell. The Big Three put all of their eggs in the SUV basket. That is nothing but management incompetence. Why should the tax payers have to bail them out for their mistakes with subsidized loans? Let them file for bankruptcy. That'll clear out the union contracts, the excess executive salaries, and allow for the orderly sale of the non-core assets of the companies.

  • Posted By: Commonsense9999 @ 09/19/2008 1:37:32 PM

    I don't see how the dependance on foreign oil can be blamed on the current administration. Have they done everything they can to solve the problem? No. But, this issue has been a long time in the making. Some might say it's Carter's fault. He promised to end the dependance on foreign oil. It's a better statement that it's the fault of every President and Congressman since the last oil crunch. It doesn't require us to stop using oil to correct it. The mere threat of the US driling offshore and switching to alternative fuels has brought the cost of oil down. The government should not loan the money to the automakers just as I don't think they should have to the banking institutions. This country has allowed and even encouraged people to stop taking resposibility for their actions. In business and life things change. How you plan for the future and change determines how successful you are ultimately going to be. The automakers want money to fund R&D. The company I work for doesn't received any money for R&D. Those R&D costs are recouped in the price of the product. Responsibility.

    • Posted By: olderwiser @ 09/19/2008 8:35:26 PM

      It's Adam and Eve's fault.

      • Posted By: olderwiser @ 09/19/2008 8:52:34 PM

        Adam was a democrat. Eve was a republican. The almighty took a rib from a democrat and made a republican. The republican, in the long run, also believes in welfare when businesses find themselves in need of welfare. Vote for the welfare that you like best. If you like welfare for businesses, then vote for Eve. If you prefer welfare for everybody else, then vote for Adam.

        • Posted By: olderwiser @ 09/19/2008 8:56:22 PM

          If you prefer no welfare at all, then you don't have a candidate to vote for. I am not against welfare. I am, though, skeptical of those who damn government aid to needy persons, but deem it appropriate for businesses that go broke through fraud and careless business practices. They are shiftless businesses and deserve no welfare.

  • Posted By: hsweeney70E @ 09/19/2008 7:18:04 PM

    Ike - $6 billion dollars.
    Detroit automaker bailout - $25 bililon
    Credit crisis and Wall Street bailout - $1.3 trillion
    Running the government efficiently - priceless......

    .....and unrealistic....



  • Posted By: johnny123 @ 09/18/2008 8:25:31 PM

    There is never any fanfare when Toyota or Honda open a new manufacturing plant, employing hundreds of local workers, but we always hear about the struggles in the "Motor City." Maybe if the Big 3 automakers took a stand against the bloated autoworkers union they would be singing a different tune, one called PROFITABILITY! A line worker making $20.00 per hour with great benefits costs Honda or Toyota roughly $27.00 per hour to employ. The same worker at a Big 3 unionized facility costs almost $35.00 per hour because of benefits that the average American does not get. It is time to end the age of entitlement and admit that unions had their place in our history when the average worker was truly taken advantage of. Every union that exists today from the teachers to the autoworkers seems to be producing sub par results and the rise of the Japanese automakers in this country is a testament to that.

    • Posted By: copper454 @ 09/19/2008 10:46:18 AM

      Teachers' unions aren't producing subpar results. Look at how great public education is in the USA! (sarcastic)

      • Posted By: jh35180 @ 09/19/2008 5:33:01 PM

        I will agree in part with what both of have said. Unions have perhaps outlived their usefullness. However, I drive nothing but GM products and I have been extremely satisfied with every car that I have owned. I really cannot believe that Japan would make a superior product. As far as the comment dealing with the poor performance of public school, lets see what comes into public schools. Families in the U.S. are more dysfunctional than ever. Often times kids are moved around from four to five different schools in one academic year. These kids are pawns in many divorced parents hands and it is really amazing that schools are doing as well as they are. Not to mention that public schools have been handcuffed by the federal government with such ridiculous mandates with "No Child Left Behind." Yes unions have made some ridiculous demands but American workers are better than you two would have us to believe.

  • Posted By: headhoncho @ 09/18/2008 7:47:41 PM

    The auto unions have caused the big three mess. People who turn screws for a living do not deserve to be paid as much or more than college graduates. American cars are too expensive because the companies have caved to the unions too many times over the years. The big three should file for Chaper 11, disband the greedy unions and start all over again with a competitive advantage. They could cut wages and benefits in half and still have no lack of recruits. So, let us not bail them out. Let them "fail" so that they can come back on their own and succeed!!!!

    • Posted By: St. Germain @ 09/18/2008 8:04:35 PM

      You made a good point except for the people turning screws part. I went to college for two years and earned an associates degree majoring in Diesel Tech. So, I should make what a college grad makes as I am one. I trust you were just refering to the auto manufacture employees that only do a specific task that really requires no education.

      • Posted By: jh35180 @ 09/19/2008 5:19:26 PM

        St. Germain. Frankly, I think that you contribute more of a valuable service to this country than many people with a 4-year-degree. There are so many useless majors and degrees that are being pumped out by colleges. I have more respect for a skilled craftsman, such as yourself, than I do for a bunch of ridiculous university degrees.

    • Posted By: rottenman641 @ 09/18/2008 8:48:46 PM

      Headhoncho you are almost exactly right except one minor little detail and I outta know because everyone in my whole family except me works for Generous Motors.Not only could they afford to have thier wages cut in half but they could also be cut by two-thirds and they just have been cut to almost two-thirds.I *** you not my aunt who does not know the difference between a nut and bolt has been working there for 10 years at almost $30.00 an hour well just recently every hourly workers pay was cut to $13.00 an hour.And you wanna know the funny thing?Almost every useless or drug addicted employee there said they would have accepted a cut to $10.00 an hour because most of them there knew that they couldn't find a job IN THE REAL WORLD for even that wage.If you ask me they must be a bunch of pretty sad workers if they can half thier wages almost cut by two-thirds after working for the company for 10 or 20 years and not only except that kind of wage cut but also know that it is the ethical thing to do.I would be embarrassed beyond belief if that ever happenned to me.JOHNNY ROTTEN.

  • Posted By: RangerDan @ 09/18/2008 7:27:11 PM

    In discussing this the quote that always comes to mind: "As GM does, so goes the nation". There's alot more at stake here than just the BIG 3. While you drive your Toyota to the grocery store and save 25 cents on gas realize that the workers at the BIG 3 go a long way in determning how much YOU make and whether YOU have a job. If the final bastion of American manufacturing goes away, it will be the end of American manufacturing forever. Are you ready for that?

    • Posted By: dwillis @ 09/18/2008 7:58:35 PM

      It's already gone. Have you not noticed.

      • Posted By: RangerDan @ 09/18/2008 11:30:01 PM

        I guess I'm a (foolish) optimist

        • Posted By: jh35180 @ 09/19/2008 5:13:43 PM

          Ranger Dan. You are not a foolish optimist. It bothers me that we have allowed our manufacturing base to disappear. We have exported so many of jobs overseas and it is ridiculous. If you mention this then you are called a protectionist. China practices protectionism. Look at all of the "quality" products that we get from China. Toys with lead paint. Fish that are injected with antibiotics. Yet we do this in the interest of free trade. Unfortunately, I am afraid that dwillis is right, but if the Big 3 die then where will we be?

    • Posted By: St. Germain @ 09/18/2008 7:44:38 PM

      It's going that way anyway unless the free trade act get overturned. Outsourcing to other countries is becoming a norm now. At this rate the USA will be the place to retire when your to old to work in Mexico, or Canada.

  • Posted By: ari122 @ 09/19/2008 5:02:24 PM

    HELL NO! The US auto makers have built the big gas guzzling, behemouths because they wanted to. We have been talking about the energy crisis for at east 20 years and they have sat there in Detroit spinning out SUVs. Why should the tax payers pay for their stupidity?

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