The Next Bailout: Detroit

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  • Posted By: LoneVoice121 @ 09/19/2008 12:23:56 AM

    Why should 49 states suffer to help an Industry which is a benefit to a single state?
    The Taxpayers should support Industries which spread the wealth to all 50 States or at least 10 of them. Let Michigan taxpayers fund Detroit.

  • Posted By: goosemon @ 09/18/2008 11:58:10 PM

    I typed a response to the question of what happened to 'good ole American know-how and ingenuity, then I deleted it...it was a perfect example, and one that anyone could document on thier own if they were inclined. My point was and still is...true American know-how and true genius will get you killed, the powers that be don't want solutions they want your money...they want it all!

  • Posted By: definn @ 09/18/2008 11:54:44 PM

    Answer to ThinkPlease. WQrong, I worked for GM for 18 years and now receive $133.00 per Mo=nth. How can they afford it when retired management receives a Minimum of $ 8000.00 per year. ( According to an Union Phamplet) Their engeneers told us in !970, when 30000.00 workers where out of work in Flint Michigan, and Roger Smith awarded himself an Million Dollar bonus, THE AMERICAN PUBLIC BUYS WHAT WE GIVE THEM. TThis is only their own arrogance catching up with the Automakers.

  • Posted By: CouldCareLessAnymore @ 09/18/2008 11:43:45 PM

    Bail out terrible investments and now bail out terrible cars. They deserve what they are getting for putting out those junk cars starting in the mid 70`s.

  • Posted By: goosemon @ 09/18/2008 11:24:22 PM

    we don't need boots on the ground to secure oil in the middle east. Poor Iran, she's got her elite guard fleet out on patrol to stop the oil flow from the gulf, to contest a U.S. carrier group who is there to keep the sea lanes open. If a naval engagement occurs, and it's captured on video you will need only about 10 seconds worth of film, or less. Point, if they want to sell the oil to us, we will pay. If they don't want to sell to us, we'll take it by force...thier choice. America tries, as a whole, to be fair with other nations...but don't try to back us into a corner.

  • Posted By: goosemon @ 09/18/2008 10:58:02 PM

    I know people who have witnessed technologies that got out into the public, accidently of course, then seized and never seen again...I could go on and on, but this is a public forum. The things we common folk invision, to solve energy problems, are more than likely primitive and laughable to the powers that be. They would actually release these technologies if they could solve one little problem... "How do we put a meter on it, so we can charge Mr./Mrs./Ms. consumer?"

    • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 09/18/2008 11:14:40 PM

      Whoop there it is in a nut shell no insult intended. the tech has been put forth, bought by these same companies, and destroyed on purpose,no profit in free abundent fuel..,just like the utilities who scream murder over wind power, no profit, greed got them here, greed should make them fall, but at the rate of 20 CEOs per 15 low paid employees, it will take billions just to pay them off!

  • Posted By: emptywallet @ 09/18/2008 10:57:48 PM

    This a a bit off the beaten path but the people we have relected to run our governmenthave forgotten who they work for and what their job functions are and I came up with an idea.
    I would suggest a prerequisite for our elected individuals Requirement: 1 week of classes in
    the Constitution 101 in a regular classroom( no travel requered -other thandrive yourself to the nearest school where you live (and no free gas for that trip) no computers or cell phones allowed;; you can bring a brown bag lunch, a pencil and paper will be ok in case you need to take some notes.There will be no fancy chairs or desks -- just a simple classroom with a chalkboard. You will relearn or learn about the taxation without representation part; about upholding the Constitution and it's laws; And, there will be a test and if you flunk you go back to the end of the line and start over--; It should be a simple test of either "yes or no " or multiple choice answers. There will be no opportunity for you to tippy toe around with vague answers (no essay responses .)This will be rt part of your indoctrination and give you a clearer understanding of your duties as an ELECTED representaytive of your constituants,
    And the last time I checked, voting consisting of one person - one vote-- and does not
    involve corporations or lobbying groups. And if a week is too long, we can do it in a day
    The Constitution of U.S. is really not that hard to comprehend. Our Founding Fathers made it very clearly written document so you don't have to guess too much. (We will leave that part to the Supreme Court) Anybody out there want to petition this thought into a law..I am just frustrated by how we are all being ignored We communicate with our reps and they don't care, they come to us for our vote and then leave us hung out to dry with their mistakes. And they are taking our last dollar so we can't even bribe them with a buck..

    • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 09/18/2008 11:02:21 PM

      The People Should Never Fear It's Government
      The Governemnt Should Always Fear It's People.

  • Posted By: d0rkd0g @ 09/18/2008 5:32:48 PM

    I do not live beyond my means - my means have slipped below my lifestyle, which is by no means extravagant (80K mortgage, less than $300 car payment on a Toyota, $2k in credit cards).

    Detroit does not just provide what we 'want' to buy. If Detroit wanted to do it right they would show the few advantages of having an SUV but they would also show someone putting $175 worth of gas in it every week. So take your 'they only make what we want to buy' argument and shove it. Tobacco manufacturers issue warnings on each package - why not have a disclaimer on every SUV ad that says "Use of an SUV for daily commuting has been shown to be hazardous to the environment"?

    Because they don't care, that's why. Let them rot in hell.

    • Posted By: ThinkPleaseThink @ 09/18/2008 10:37:26 PM

      YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING! You going to put a sticker on the sun to not look at it or it will burn your eyes? Let's have warning stickers on everything!!!

  • Posted By: CSCSR @ 09/18/2008 5:20:06 PM

    Some of you people amaze me. Car makers made what we wanted to buy. Don't blame Detriot blame 95% of America. The other 5% still had/have other choices. Note I see more Toyota Tundra commercials than any of the big 3 with regard to trucks. Wonder why Toyota makes a Tundra because we Americas buy them. Some how we bail out Wall Street but not Detroit. Why? Simple Wall Street gives more to Washington than Detroit does. Yes there are a few high paid CEO's in Detriot. Bet there are a lot more on Wall Street. Make an easy decision for who to give the money too. Also add in Detroit is blue collar, Wall Street is white collar. Neither party really cares about blue collar. Don't think your union leaders really care about you either. Note the report 1 in 10 US jobs are connected to auto. And you suggest and whine about all the foriegn jobs. Sounds like plenty still here. I'd certainly give Detroit $50 B before I'd give Wall Street $1.00. At least Detroit produces something tangible. What exactly does Wall Street produce? Hell we find out they didn't even know what the paper they were writing was worth. Wall Street ignorance got them in trouble, Detroit suffers from our own fellow America wacko left that won't let us at our own natural resources. Let Wall Street lie in the bed they made, don't punish Detroit for the bed all Americas made. You elected the people that voted to make the CAFE standards. That was our collective will. You/we made Detroit we sure didn't make Wall Street.

    • Posted By: ThinkPleaseThink @ 09/18/2008 10:32:07 PM

      Could not have said it better myself!! Well done, CSCSR! Supply and demand. Old School stuff. Give them the money low interest. Remember, IT'S NOT A BAILOUT!!! Go to a few schools - families don't want to shove kids in small cars -I want freedom of choice. Great job!

  • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 09/18/2008 10:28:25 PM

    I guess out of all the people WHO SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO GORE,now want help cause they can't sell cars,sorry YOU of ALL industries should have listened!!!

  • Posted By: Jim Bullis @ 09/18/2008 10:27:35 PM

    If the government provides easy credit to the auto industry it will perpetuate the disaster that is the present day automobile. This world wide automobile concept was a positive result of efficient industrialization, but it then became set in public consciousness by advertising reinforced by government policy such as the oil depletion allowance put in place in 1924. I think the lifestyle made possible by easy mobility is a good thing, thus, if the present day cars were the best possible achievement, I would say ok to helping things to go on, but the fact is there are much better possibilities.

    You might be surprised to hear that electric cars are not much of a solution. In fact, they are also a disaster waiting to happen since every zap of electricity from a plug will result in a shovel of coal into a furnace for manhy years to come. The good of electric cars will only come about if the vehicles themselves are made very differently.

    There is a need to rethink how cars should look and how we should ride in cars. There are some promising possibilities among the intended entries in the Automotive XPRIZE , now the Progressive Insurance
    Automotive XPRIZE . Web sites www.aptera.com and www.miastrada.com show some possibilities. (I am involved with the Miastrada project.) These examples in particular make could make an 80% to 90% reduction in the energy used in personal transportation, without forcing people to change their lifestyles.

    The problem with easy credit for the auto industry is that it will delay the day that they seriously rethink their product lines. Rather than make significant changes, they would much prefer to stick an electric motor into an otherwise very inefficient vehicle, thus shifting the energy burden to the electric grid and thus to coal instead of petroleum. And thus continue to use a lot of energy; it would just be from a different source.

    So not only would easy credit to the auto industry be an unwarranted burden on the taxpayers, it would cause far more of a disaster by perpetuating the carbon dioxide emissions of the present car concept.

  • Posted By: Widowmaker51 @ 09/18/2008 4:58:48 PM

    "NO MORE BAILOUTS"

    WHY SHOULD THOSE WHO ARE MAKING IT, PAY FOR THOSE WHO CAN'T OR WON'T ESPECIALLY WITH THE AMOUNT OF $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$'S THESE COMPANIES "OUTSOURCE" TO OTHER COUNTRIES!!

    • Posted By: ThinkPleaseThink @ 09/18/2008 10:26:40 PM

      IT'S NOT A BAILOUT!!
      NO BAILOUT!!
      AND what?!?

  • Posted By: goosemon @ 09/18/2008 10:26:39 PM

    Still all boils down to a global economy. Corporate America takes it's business to China, pays the chineese enough to put rice on the table for 25 people living in the same dwelling. And the Chineese are glad to get it. China's goverment also subsidises heavily to offset losses...the stock holders want maximum profit margins, returns, dividents, etc. Corporate America owes it's existence to the U.S. tax payers who financed billions of dollars for research and development for thier companies, which they never had to pay back. It's greed over patriotism. Enough profit is never enough with them.
    The only solution is regulation by the government, assign tarriffs to imports, stop giving away 250 billion dollars a year in trade deficit to China. At least give the 250 billion dollars a year to a trusted ally, not a country that targets our satelites to see if they can blast them, if necessary, of course...precautionary steps.
    We need to kick 90%+ of our legislators out of office, It's either stupidity or treason on thier part, I believe it's the latter. Sold the people that they are supposed to represent down the tube all paid for by corporate America. Just blowin' off steam...no revelation here.

  • Posted By: scobman @ 09/18/2008 4:50:24 PM

    FORD should auction off the FORD museum and use that money for their failures, not our tax dollars.

    GM should close down the offshore plants, bring the american peoples jobs back and then maybe our tax dollars to bail them out can be discussed.

    YEA, they take our jobs, give them to foreign countries then want our tax dollars?
    THEY NEED TO TAKE CHINESE TAX DOLLARS TO PAY FOR THEIR COMPANIES SINCE THATS WHERE THEY MAKE THEIR CARS NOW

    • Posted By: ThinkPleaseThink @ 09/18/2008 10:25:22 PM

      Have you been to the museum lately? It's not owned by Ford Motor Company. And Mr Ford - Bill Jr., does not take a paycheck and let's suppose you were in their (CEO, CFO. etc.) shoes. Would you refuse a salary of that amount? And American workers want great benefits, great salary and great times - would bringing jobs back here really help American companies - who are spending too much already on these things? Again, please think this through. Take an economics course or something. And STOP BUYING INEXPENSIVE, FOREIGN MADE PRODUCTS - oh, we should have said that 10+ years ago, right? How many inexpensive tvs, radios, phones and almost anything now --do you own? Americans HAVE TO HAVE THESE THINGS, right? Stop and think about it.

    • Posted By: vor26cma @ 09/18/2008 4:52:18 PM

      I am with you. No American jobs - No American tax payer money.

  • Posted By: ru4real6846 @ 09/18/2008 4:47:34 PM

    Plain and simple, the United States is about over with. The way it's run, it's a wonder it's lasted this long. Everybody is going bankrupt and expect the government to bail; them out. The government has no right bailing anyone out. We say the hell with them. This country is so far in debt, it will NEVER get out. Why not let China or Japan take over. They probably own most of America anyway. The only time this country was good, was when Clinton was president and now look at it. Bush lied to everyone about the war and even had to cheat to get our troops at war. Housing's down the toilet and all these big companies are crying the blues. This country is going to hell and it's never going to get better. There are too many chiefs and not enough indians and these big wigs don't know their asses from a hole in the ground. So, good-bye America. You really screwed up this time.

    • Posted By: ThinkPleaseThink @ 09/18/2008 10:18:19 PM

      Sounds like someone needs a hug - or at least to stop watching ABC, NBC or CBS --the naysayers. Turn on FOXNEWS...It's not that bad, ru4real. We've been in debt before, And Clinton only did well because he had a Repub Congress and he was given Big Bush's tax increases so cheer up. Put on a happy face and go have some ice cream.

  • Posted By: MikeyBC @ 09/18/2008 10:18:18 PM

    One in ten jobs in America depend on the American auto industry? I suggest the morons in the congress get off their incredibliy stupid lazy asses and put some money together! Although the funds must have conditions attached.
    The financial interests of the globe would come crashing around our heads if not just GM but the American auto industry fails. You can bring that to the bank if there are any left standing!!

  • Posted By: scobman @ 09/18/2008 4:47:12 PM

    they need to look for investors.
    Its criminal for the gov to give them FREE tax dollars I pay and then the car companies not give me crap in the end.
    All these bailouts are criminal, we want indictments and arrests and we the people shouldnt even pay taxes if this is how they are used to bailout failing companies after they pay CEO's millions in severance and bonuses.

    Bear stearns CEO got their bonuses of billions of dollars then went belly up and then tax dollars bail them out and we get ROBBED and should be given public stock holdings for the companies since its our cash they are getting.
    Maybe the people will learn from this that the gov is criminal, 911 was an inside job and the IMF and WORLD BANK documents 10 years ago say this is what they were gunna do, now its happening and we told you so 10 years ago and 80% of the people still think its a conspiracy when their own documents say thats what they wanted to do.

    PNAC (project for a new american century) authored by cheney, rumsfeld, bush wolfowitz written in 1992 funded by a McCain group say they needed a NEW PERAL HARBOR to implement what they have since 911.

    So wake up cuz WWW INFOWARS COM is where you need to go to get the real news and to read their documents written years ago explaining what is happening today by design.

    • Posted By: ThinkPleaseThink @ 09/18/2008 10:15:14 PM

      If one more person says it's a bailout that costs taxpayers money, I AM GOING TO SCREAM!!! It's not a bailout like Fannie/Freddie. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. People please read more and THINK!

  • Posted By: The Frog @ 09/18/2008 10:13:57 PM

    What part of producing 5-15 mpg vehicals didnt Detroit understand?

  • Posted By: peewee1 @ 09/18/2008 9:11:35 PM

    I work in the auto industry 17years now and I see first hand how much waste that is spent by the big three. If they would restructure and run more effient they would not need a bail out. STOP THE WASTE and prosper.

    • Posted By: pinkpanther87413 @ 09/18/2008 10:13:44 PM

      Let me guess 20 CEOs making 500,000 per year in charge of 15 people making 15,000 per year? Per dept, company SOP?

  • Posted By: Cabot @ 09/18/2008 10:12:53 PM

    NO - Build better more affordable fuel efficient cars, negotiate with unions about their unfunded pension plans and outrageous union salaries. Ask the airlines how to do it. This is a free market economy. Blame the wallstreet problems on Fannie mae and Freddie mac and Obama for being bought out on his looking the other way regarding oversight of regulation of these companies.

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